ok i'm goin out on a limb here again (since i am not sure whether it is confirmed that there were sunflowers in lightman or that i fell for someone's photoshop)but wasn't there a part where kenny was talking about billie jean and suggested that it was a place for michael to improvize more. and didn't michael saying at the end something to the effect that at least you get the idea of it might suggest that there was purposeful change. i could be crazy . actually i am beginning to be sure of it , but what can i say. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
ok i'm goin out on a limb here again (since i am not sure whether it is confirmed that there were sunflowers in lightman or that i fell for someone's photoshop)but wasn't there a part where kenny was talking about billie jean and suggested that it was a place for michael to improvize more. and didn't michael saying at the end something to the effect thatat least you get the idea of it might suggest that there was purposeful change. i could be crazy . actually i am beginning to be sure of it , but what can i say. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
Yes, I like your thinking! A purposeful change - no more familiar Billie Jean routine, no more King of Pop - a change to something with a greater purpose.
ok i have this book from the library .thriller the musical life of michael jackson. nelson george is the author. some of you might be familiar i am not. anyway he is talking about billie jean in tii.
"and yet this micheal jackson or, at least, the latest incarnation of the man is a person fully invested with the dna and talent of that long-gone little brown boy. his "billie jean" at motown 25 back in 1984 was the defining moment of jackson's career. several generations have moonwalked in his wake. however, his ''''''''billie jean" performance in this is it is, i think, a bit of perfection that confirms his legacy.
within the "billie jean" dance, which is a familiar as any of jackson's catalog. jackson reinvents himself on the staples stage. using his arms and fingers and holding his torso at precise angles that dramatize every movement, jackson remakes "billie jean" as a dance for an oder, wiser man. his dancers go crazy (though they'd gone crarzy at the times, too) but here their cheers are indeed warrented. and at the end of this magnificant dance, jackson says, "well , we got a good feel for it." no one watching this dance will shrug it off so casually, just as no one watching will understand how dope that performance is more than it's dancer. yet at the time jackson did this dance, it was simply some sweet moves at reherasal and nothing more. but now, and forever, it is michael's last act of magic"
hope i got all of the typo's fixed <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
ok i have this book from the library .thriller the musical life of michael jackson. nelson george is the author. some of you might be familiar i am not. anyway he is talking about billie jean in tii.
"and yet this micheal jackson or, at least, the latest incarnation of the man is a person fully invested with the dna and talent of that long-gone little brown boy. his "billie jean" at motown 25 back in 1984 was the defining moment of jackson's career. several generations have moonwalked in his wake. however, his ''''''''billie jean" performance in this is it is, i think, a bit of perfection that confirms his legacy.
within the "billie jean" dance, which is a familiar as any of jackson's catalog. jackson reinvents himself on the staples stage. using his arms and fingers and holding his torso at precise angles that dramatize every movement, jackson remakes "billie jean" as a dance for an oder, wiser man. his dancers go crazy (though they'd gone crarzy at the times, too) but here their cheers are indeed warrented. and at the end of this magnificant dance, jackson says, "well , we got a good feel for it." no one watching this dance will shrug it off so casually, just as no one watching will understand how dope that performance is more than it's dancer. yet at the time jackson did this dance, it was simply some sweet moves at reherasal and nothing more. but now, and forever, it is michael's last act of magic"
hope i got all of the typo's fixed <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
if we were on facebook, I'd "like" this <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
ok i'm goin out on a limb here again (since i am not sure whether it is confirmed that there were sunflowers in lightman or that i fell for someone's photoshop)but wasn't there a part where kenny was talking about billie jean and suggested that it was a place for michael to improvize more. and didn't michael saying at the end something to the effect that at least you get the idea of it might suggest that there was purposeful change. i could be crazy . actually i am beginning to be sure of it , but what can i say. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
It was not photoshop, look at the following video at 0.17
ok i'm goin out on a limb here again (since i am not sure whether it is confirmed that there were sunflowers in lightman or that i fell for someone's photoshop)but wasn't there a part where kenny was talking about billie jean and suggested that it was a place for michael to improvize more. and didn't michael saying at the end something to the effect that at least you get the idea of it might suggest that there was purposeful change. i could be crazy . actually i am beginning to be sure of it , but what can i say. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
It was not photoshop, look at the following video at 0.17
[youtube:2yildrvu]
then are there anymore things in it that we can actually see.? someone who knows how to stop the video at the right times .
The sunflowers are really on the light man in TII <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
where??? my brother deleted film <!-- s:evil: -->:evil:<!-- s:evil: --> and I can't watch it .. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> i have to download again.. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
and I'm sure he will delete it again.. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
This picture is from the blog of seeingclues.
<!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Hmm weird because I never saw any sunflowers on lightman. I slowed the entire lightman segment and all i saw was fireworks.
The sunflowers are really on the light man in TII <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
where??? my brother deleted film <!-- s:evil: -->:evil:<!-- s:evil: --> and I can't watch it .. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> i have to download again.. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
and I'm sure he will delete it again.. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
This picture is from the blog of seeingclues.
<!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Hmm weird because I never saw any sunflowers on lightman. I slowed the entire lightman segment and all i saw was fireworks.
it all moved so fast . i do sort of remember seeing some for a split second.for me though some of the rest of the film was that way also.
I'd say that this is MJ. We all know he can dance. However, when was the last time he did Billie Jean? 01! Even then it wasn't as good as he usually done it. I think the last time MJ did Billie Jean and it was his best was 1999 MJ and friends. So since 01' until now he probably hasn't danced very much. He's rusty. Plus that looks like the forst time they did Billie Jean on the stage. To me it looks like they weren't even planning on doing it but thought "Hey while we are here, let's do a run through" same with MITM at the end, it's not complete. I believe the blue shirt he is wearing is what he wore on June 24th. So it was a quick run through, it wasn't a full rehearsal, plus I'd say it was the first run through since 01'.
So he's just rusty and a little off. I mean he probably forgot some of the lyrics. He doesn't listen to his music every day. You know? IJCSLY you messes up the lyrics there too...
When he did Billie Jean at the 30th anniversary concert, didn't he change some of the choreography?
I know it was more similar to the original choreography than the TII performance, but still he made some changes didn't he? Like the part where he does the robot and the sliding around in a circle..correct me if im wrong...
I'd say that this is MJ. We all know he can dance. However, when was the last time he did Billie Jean? 01! Even then it wasn't as good as he usually done it. I think the last time MJ did Billie Jean and it was his best was 1999 MJ and friends. So since 01' until now he probably hasn't danced very much. He's rusty. Plus that looks like the forst time they did Billie Jean on the stage. To me it looks like they weren't even planning on doing it but thought "Hey while we are here, let's do a run through" same with MITM at the end, it's not complete. I believe the blue shirt he is wearing is what he wore on June 24th. So it was a quick run through, it wasn't a full rehearsal, plus I'd say it was the first run through since 01'.
So he's just rusty and a little off. I mean he probably forgot some of the lyrics. He doesn't listen to his music every day. You know? IJCSLY you messes up the lyrics there too...
Just my two cents!
I think that put that escenes at the end of the movie, billie jean & man in the mirror performance and the speech, when he is in his blue shirt is confused... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I think that this was filmed at the beggining of the rehearsals, not at stapples maybe... because the stage floor is not shiny and the ramp in the middle of the stage is not finished, and the squares where we saw the elevators are only marked, the elevators are not there...
maybe the "full rehearsals" was at sttaples and there we can see him without sunglasses and with make up... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Something caught my eye at the end of the This is It movie just before the ending where "MJ" is talking to Kenny and Michael Beardon about the MJ Air rehearsal/practice and Kenny says to MJ .... blah blah blah (can't remember the exact words) for Michael and MJ says "no no no" ....on so on. Like Kenny was saying you had to do something for Michael and this MJ says no no no.
"for Michael" are the words that caught my attention. It was like Kenny and "MJ" were discussing the stuff that had to be done and MJ mentions something about stewardesses and such and they are laughing and you can't hear "MJ" very well, but it is re-written on the screen what he says. So my inclination is that this guy Kenny was talking to was a double for Michael at the end of the movie. So could be that is why his dancing was "off"..... but I think he never really stopped dancing, maybe publicly he stopped doing it, but I think he was constantly thinking of new dances and music. Wasn't there a story or documentary where he says he creates the dance and then the music just comes after (or something to that effect)?
I'd say that this is MJ. We all know he can dance. However, when was the last time he did Billie Jean? 01! Even then it wasn't as good as he usually done it. I think the last time MJ did Billie Jean and it was his best was 1999 MJ and friends. So since 01' until now he probably hasn't danced very much. He's rusty. Plus that looks like the forst time they did Billie Jean on the stage. To me it looks like they weren't even planning on doing it but thought "Hey while we are here, let's do a run through" same with MITM at the end, it's not complete. I believe the blue shirt he is wearing is what he wore on June 24th. So it was a quick run through, it wasn't a full rehearsal, plus I'd say it was the first run through since 01'.
So he's just rusty and a little off. I mean he probably forgot some of the lyrics. He doesn't listen to his music every day. You know? IJCSLY you messes up the lyrics there too...
Just my two cents!
I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. To me it's perfectly clear that there are doubles in TII, and what you have just summed up looks, in my honest opinion, as weak excuses to deny the use of doubles.
A dancer doesn't stop dancing, and routines one has repeated time after time will stick in your memory. I quit top sports 23 years ago, and I still remember my routines, every single detail of them. When I hear the music of my routines, my body automatically starts making the moves. The lyrics of the many songs I memorized in the 80's I still remember, and I didn't write those songs myself, so leave alone the memory of the person who wrote them.
You will have to come up with a lot more credible excuses than you previously posted. Mike is 50, not some old dude of 85 years old, although a lot of young people think that life ends once you've passed 40.
I'd say that this is MJ. We all know he can dance. However, when was the last time he did Billie Jean? 01! Even then it wasn't as good as he usually done it. I think the last time MJ did Billie Jean and it was his best was 1999 MJ and friends. So since 01' until now he probably hasn't danced very much. He's rusty. Plus that looks like the forst time they did Billie Jean on the stage. To me it looks like they weren't even planning on doing it but thought "Hey while we are here, let's do a run through" same with MITM at the end, it's not complete. I believe the blue shirt he is wearing is what he wore on June 24th. So it was a quick run through, it wasn't a full rehearsal, plus I'd say it was the first run through since 01'.
So he's just rusty and a little off. I mean he probably forgot some of the lyrics. He doesn't listen to his music every day. You know? IJCSLY you messes up the lyrics there too...
Just my two cents!
I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. To me it's perfectly clear that there are doubles in TII, and what you have just summed up looks, in my honest opinion, as weak excuses to deny the use of doubles.
A dancer doesn't stop dancing, and routines one has repeated time after time will stick in your memory. I quit top sports 23 years ago, and I still remember my routines, every single detail of them. When I hear the music of my routines, my body automatically starts making the moves. The lyrics of the many songs I memorized in the 80's I still remember, and I didn't write those songs myself, so leave alone the memory of the person who wrote them.
You will have to come up with a lot more credible excuses than you previously posted. Mike is 50, not some old dude of 85 years old, although a lot of young people think that life ends once you've passed 40.
Well, I don't really want to go into the "double-or-not" theory, I just have some observations I wanna share. I have to admit that I was quite disappointed when I saw the Billie Jean in TII. My impression was more like it IS MJ, but the edge wasn't there, like someone said, it wasn't just the choreography which I don't think should be changed: Billie Jean is his signature, it's legendary, why would he want to change the main choreography? Adding something is different, he did add something at the 2001 show after all, and no Billie Jean performance MJ did in the past was exactly the same. And still it seemed perfect, just the way you expect, no matter if there were some slight changes. The performance from 1981 is actually very different from the one in 2001. But in TII something's not right <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> Even the way the dancers are cheering is weird, I mean: either they cheer because someone's doing great, trying to be like MJ, or MJ himself is really coming up with something new (very strange) or it could be more like a rehearsal of a rehearsal, if you know what I mean. He didn't seem to want to put everything into that one. It's like they were gonna do another 10 rehearsals of the same thing again right after that.But why cheer then? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> I'm not saying it couldn't have been a double there, but that guy does LOOK like MJ. It looks like it's MJ but something's not right. I wish I knew what... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
And the fact that Joe Jackson said there were plenty of doubles there anyway...Hmmm! Makes me thing. Why did he say that? True or not...could be part of the plan. Wanted everyone to go like hmm...so let's see in which scenes. What if he just want to plant the idea in our heads? Cause actually, if it was true and Mike was dead, he wouldn't have said that. It's quite disrespectful I think. I think everything the family members say has some purpose. Apart from the fact that it's contradictory most of the times. <!-- s:idea: -->:idea:<!-- s:idea: -->
I don't think we should try so hard to find out if there were doubles or not or which scenes they were in. We should look for other clues instead. Besides I think if they were knowingly including footage with body doubles, they should have picked them carefully so that nobody notices anything. I just think it's on purpose. So why argue about that?
L.O.V.E <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
For that there are people who wants to see Michael as a decrepit elder, drug addict, or as a being unable to do something that is his life?, for that he is 50 years old, but this 50-year-old man made all this plan of hoax, and thanks to this 50-year-old man we all are in this forum almost one year ago.
Something caught my eye at the end of the This is It movie just before the ending where "MJ" is talking to Kenny and Michael Beardon about the MJ Air rehearsal/practice and Kenny says to MJ .... blah blah blah (can't remember the exact words) for Michael and MJ says "no no no" ....on so on. Like Kenny was saying you had to do something for Michael and this MJ says no no no.
"for Michael" are the words that caught my attention. It was like Kenny and "MJ" were discussing the stuff that had to be done and MJ mentions something about stewardesses and such and they are laughing and you can't hear "MJ" very well, but it is re-written on the screen what he says. So my inclination is that this guy Kenny was talking to was a double for Michael at the end of the movie. So could be that is why his dancing was "off"..... but I think he never really stopped dancing, maybe publicly he stopped doing it, but I think he was constantly thinking of new dances and music. Wasn't there a story or documentary where he says he creates the dance and then the music just comes after (or something to that effect)?
shelby61, that "for Michael" may have been a reference to Michael Beardon, who was part of the team who worked on TII. That's the Michael that Ortega referred to at the beginning of the TII movie, when he said "Michael was there with me in the editing room" or something like that.
First of all, Tina is and James was a LOT older than Mike. 50 is not old, I don't know how many times I have to say that. How do you explain "Thriller" and "Smooth Criminal" in TII if he was not able to dance like he used to? And I am pretty sure that he can still do the Moonwalk when he is 93 years old.
If you look at the Dangerous rehearsal, you see that he is indeed not giving his all, yet we see all the typical MJ moves. TII Billie Jean guy in TII is doing close to nothing. He is also not trying something else with Billie Jean, Mike likes routine and he will only improve his choreography and not just stand there moving a little to the music. Mike's moves have always been very sharp and I am sure they are still this day. I wish people would stop calling him old, he's not. There is a difference between a 50-year-old truck driver that drinks beer and eats chips every night while controlling his remote, and a 50-year-old that has danced all his life like Michael Jackson.
i have to agree with Souza. if the argument is that Michael is old at 50 and there is bound to be some slowing down or lack of sharpness in his moves, then it has to be a consistent feature in the whole movie, across songs. and i noticed it is not. i also agree that Michael likes routine, plus he is a "slave to the rhythm." he can't help it. he really gets into it, and in Billie Jean, the absence of moonwalk, especially when the adoring dancers were ooh-ing and ahh-ing, made me really wonder why. the moves were awkward, to say the least, at least for me. rasyte shared another video, and in the brief Threatened dancing, i can see that that's all Mike - not only because he wore no shades, but it's because of the dancing. the grace, the naturalness - like it's second skin to him. that part in the movie where he was in black, choreographing TDCAU, that's the way MJ moves. all class and elegance. Billie Jean is really puzzling to me. just like some shots of the orange pants guy. maybe Mike was there, too, but some of the dancing was not his' - so it had to be a double.
i have to agree with Souza. if the argument is that Michael is old at 50 and there is bound to be some slowing down or lack of sharpness in his moves, then it has to be a consistent feature in the whole movie, across songs. and i noticed it is not. i also agree that Michael likes routine, plus he is a "slave to the rhythm." he can't help it. he really gets into it, and in Billie Jean, the absence of moonwalk, especially when the adoring dancers were ooh-ing and ahh-ing, made me really wonder why. the moves were awkward, to say the least, at least for me. rasyte shared another video, and in the brief Threatened dancing, i can see that that's all Mike - not only because he wore no shades, but it's because of the dancing. the grace, the naturalness - like it's second skin to him. that part in the movie where he was in black, choreographing TDCAU, that's the way MJ moves. all class and elegance. Billie Jean is really puzzling to me. just like some shots of the orange pants guy. maybe Mike was there, too, but some of the dancing was not his' - so it had to be a double.
i took a break and re-watched This Is It, and i'm not sure about what i said up there anymore LOL. he was still dancing best in Thriller - the part where he comes out of a spider - and TDCAU. he looked his best in that part of Thriller, too, and Black or White - anywhere and everywhere where he wasn't wearing shades.
i have to agree with Souza. if the argument is that Michael is old at 50 and there is bound to be some slowing down or lack of sharpness in his moves, then it has to be a consistent feature in the whole movie, across songs. and i noticed it is not. i also agree that Michael likes routine, plus he is a "slave to the rhythm." he can't help it. he really gets into it, and in Billie Jean, the absence of moonwalk, especially when the adoring dancers were ooh-ing and ahh-ing, made me really wonder why. the moves were awkward, to say the least, at least for me. rasyte shared another video, and in the brief Threatened dancing, i can see that that's all Mike - not only because he wore no shades, but it's because of the dancing. the grace, the naturalness - like it's second skin to him. that part in the movie where he was in black, choreographing TDCAU, that's the way MJ moves. all class and elegance. Billie Jean is really puzzling to me. just like some shots of the orange pants guy. maybe Mike was there, too, but some of the dancing was not his' - so it had to be a double.
I totally agree.
i took a break and re-watched This Is It, and i'm not sure about what i said up there anymore LOL. he was still dancing best in Thriller - the part where he comes out of a spider - and TDCAU. he looked his best in that part of Thriller, too, and Black or White - anywhere and everywhere where he wasn't wearing shades.
Comments
Yes, I like your thinking! A purposeful change - no more familiar Billie Jean routine, no more King of Pop - a change to something with a greater purpose.
"and yet this micheal jackson or, at least, the latest incarnation of the man is a person fully invested with the dna and talent of that long-gone little brown boy. his "billie jean" at motown 25 back in 1984 was the defining moment of jackson's career. several generations have moonwalked in his wake. however, his ''''''''billie jean" performance in this is it is, i think, a bit of perfection that confirms his legacy.
within the "billie jean" dance, which is a familiar as any of jackson's catalog. jackson reinvents himself on the staples stage. using his arms and fingers and holding his torso at precise angles that dramatize every movement, jackson remakes "billie jean" as a dance for an oder, wiser man. his dancers go crazy (though they'd gone crarzy at the times, too) but here their cheers are indeed warrented. and at the end of this magnificant dance, jackson says, "well , we got a good feel for it." no one watching this dance will shrug it off so casually, just as no one watching will understand how dope that performance is more than it's dancer. yet at the time jackson did this dance, it was simply some sweet moves at reherasal and nothing more. but now, and forever, it is michael's last act of magic"
hope i got all of the typo's fixed <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
It was not photoshop, look at the following video at 0.17
[youtube:38nk75qt]
then are there anymore things in it that we can actually see.? someone who knows how to stop the video at the right times .
Hmm weird because I never saw any sunflowers on lightman. I slowed the entire lightman segment and all i saw was fireworks.
it all moved so fast . i do sort of remember seeing some for a split second.for me though some of the rest of the film was that way also.
So he's just rusty and a little off. I mean he probably forgot some of the lyrics. He doesn't listen to his music every day. You know? IJCSLY you messes up the lyrics there too...
Just my two cents!
I know it was more similar to the original choreography than the TII performance, but still he made some changes didn't he? Like the part where he does the robot and the sliding around in a circle..correct me if im wrong...
I think that put that escenes at the end of the movie, billie jean & man in the mirror performance and the speech, when he is in his blue shirt is confused... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I think that this was filmed at the beggining of the rehearsals, not at stapples maybe... because the stage floor is not shiny and the ramp in the middle of the stage is not finished, and the squares where we saw the elevators are only marked, the elevators are not there...
maybe the "full rehearsals" was at sttaples and there we can see him without sunglasses and with make up... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
"for Michael" are the words that caught my attention. It was like Kenny and "MJ" were discussing the stuff that had to be done and MJ mentions something about stewardesses and such and they are laughing and you can't hear "MJ" very well, but it is re-written on the screen what he says. So my inclination is that this guy Kenny was talking to was a double for Michael at the end of the movie. So could be that is why his dancing was "off"..... but I think he never really stopped dancing, maybe publicly he stopped doing it, but I think he was constantly thinking of new dances and music. Wasn't there a story or documentary where he says he creates the dance and then the music just comes after (or something to that effect)?
I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. To me it's perfectly clear that there are doubles in TII, and what you have just summed up looks, in my honest opinion, as weak excuses to deny the use of doubles.
A dancer doesn't stop dancing, and routines one has repeated time after time will stick in your memory. I quit top sports 23 years ago, and I still remember my routines, every single detail of them. When I hear the music of my routines, my body automatically starts making the moves. The lyrics of the many songs I memorized in the 80's I still remember, and I didn't write those songs myself, so leave alone the memory of the person who wrote them.
You will have to come up with a lot more credible excuses than you previously posted. Mike is 50, not some old dude of 85 years old, although a lot of young people think that life ends once you've passed 40.
Well, I don't really want to go into the "double-or-not" theory, I just have some observations I wanna share. I have to admit that I was quite disappointed when I saw the Billie Jean in TII. My impression was more like it IS MJ, but the edge wasn't there, like someone said, it wasn't just the choreography which I don't think should be changed: Billie Jean is his signature, it's legendary, why would he want to change the main choreography? Adding something is different, he did add something at the 2001 show after all, and no Billie Jean performance MJ did in the past was exactly the same. And still it seemed perfect, just the way you expect, no matter if there were some slight changes. The performance from 1981 is actually very different from the one in 2001. But in TII something's not right <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> Even the way the dancers are cheering is weird, I mean: either they cheer because someone's doing great, trying to be like MJ, or MJ himself is really coming up with something new (very strange) or it could be more like a rehearsal of a rehearsal, if you know what I mean. He didn't seem to want to put everything into that one. It's like they were gonna do another 10 rehearsals of the same thing again right after that.But why cheer then? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> I'm not saying it couldn't have been a double there, but that guy does LOOK like MJ. It looks like it's MJ but something's not right. I wish I knew what... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
And the fact that Joe Jackson said there were plenty of doubles there anyway...Hmmm! Makes me thing. Why did he say that? True or not...could be part of the plan. Wanted everyone to go like hmm...so let's see in which scenes. What if he just want to plant the idea in our heads? Cause actually, if it was true and Mike was dead, he wouldn't have said that. It's quite disrespectful I think. I think everything the family members say has some purpose. Apart from the fact that it's contradictory most of the times. <!-- s:idea: -->:idea:<!-- s:idea: -->
I don't think we should try so hard to find out if there were doubles or not or which scenes they were in. We should look for other clues instead. Besides I think if they were knowingly including footage with body doubles, they should have picked them carefully so that nobody notices anything. I just think it's on purpose. So why argue about that?
L.O.V.E <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
shelby61, that "for Michael" may have been a reference to Michael Beardon, who was part of the team who worked on TII. That's the Michael that Ortega referred to at the beginning of the TII movie, when he said "Michael was there with me in the editing room" or something like that.
i have to agree with Souza. if the argument is that Michael is old at 50 and there is bound to be some slowing down or lack of sharpness in his moves, then it has to be a consistent feature in the whole movie, across songs. and i noticed it is not. i also agree that Michael likes routine, plus he is a "slave to the rhythm." he can't help it. he really gets into it, and in Billie Jean, the absence of moonwalk, especially when the adoring dancers were ooh-ing and ahh-ing, made me really wonder why. the moves were awkward, to say the least, at least for me. rasyte shared another video, and in the brief Threatened dancing, i can see that that's all Mike - not only because he wore no shades, but it's because of the dancing. the grace, the naturalness - like it's second skin to him. that part in the movie where he was in black, choreographing TDCAU, that's the way MJ moves. all class and elegance. Billie Jean is really puzzling to me. just like some shots of the orange pants guy. maybe Mike was there, too, but some of the dancing was not his' - so it had to be a double.
i took a break and re-watched This Is It, and i'm not sure about what i said up there anymore LOL. he was still dancing best in Thriller - the part where he comes out of a spider - and TDCAU. he looked his best in that part of Thriller, too, and Black or White - anywhere and everywhere where he wasn't wearing shades.