I dont believe it, that handsome gentleman in This Is It is definitely Michael all over... you can tell by the hands, posture and so on.. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Posture? <!-- s --><!-- s --> Which one? We have the big, broad shouldered MJ in The Way You Make Me Feel and a tiny small MJ in Human Nature, so which posture are you referring to?
This makes a lot of sense and it would be brilliant so it's probably true. Didn't Joe say that there were mostly BODY doubles in TII? <!-- s --><!-- s -->
But still, I see wrong faces as well, like here:
So I guess more techniques were used.
OMG...these two pics side by side freak me out....everything about them is differents the hair...ears everything...are these suppose to be the same day....same outfit obviously <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
David Copperfield: Eat your heart out! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
This explains to me what I have been trying to figure out for soooo long...not just the dance moves but how he looked like his younger self....back in the 90's with the hair and everything....could they super impose his old footage on this body too??!! I don't know if anybody else felt like some of the footage was the old Michael (young Michael if you will)
come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles <!-- s --><!-- s --> is nothing new <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> but the technic used was about to be discovered.
I don't find this the same as a double, I had never heard of this technique before.
Something was odd with some "michaels" and those we have been calling doubles.
I see what you're saying, I totally agree. Something is not right.
I just didn't get when you said, 'is nothing new', because this is a new theory to me. (Superimposing Michaels face onto a dancing body).
Peace.
If this technique was indeed used, which is highly plausible, then for sure the faces of doubles were used also. There are just too many different faces in that movie. Bye bye "angles/lighting" arguments, welcome "manipulation/mind fuck" arguments. Michael Jackson's This Is It -> also known as Michael Jackson's Big Optical Illusion.
come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles <!-- s --><!-- s --> is nothing new <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> but the technic used was about to be discovered.
I don't find this the same as a double, I had never heard of this technique before.
Something was odd with some "michaels" and those we have been calling doubles.
I see what you're saying, I totally agree. Something is not right.
I just didn't get when you said, 'is nothing new', because this is a new theory to me. (Superimposing Michaels face onto a dancing body).
Peace.
If this technique was indeed used, which is highly plausible, then for sure the faces of doubles were used also. There are just too many different faces in that movie. Bye bye "angles/lighting" arguments, welcome "manipulation/mind fuck" arguments. Michael Jackson's This Is It -> also known as Michael Jackson's Big Optical Illusion.
I'm thinking a combination of this technique and doubles were used.
Like you say, some of the faces are too different to even resemble the same person, let alone Michael. That bit when they are filming the drill...That in my opinion cannot be Michael..
But I think it's possible that doubles faces and were used and superimposed onto that dancers body...I mean to the person who said the doubles would have to be able to dance was right! There are a lot of impersonators, but surely not all of them know how to dance. And I always thought the dancing was off anyway. The dancing is different to any other footage of Michael dancing. Some people put this down to age but I didn't buy it. Michael could do the moonwalk in his sleep...
Now my question is...was Michael in this film at all? If so, in what parts do you think??
come on, this forum has the blogs about doubles <!-- s --><!-- s --> is nothing new <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> but the technic used was about to be discovered.
You're right. This has been discussed up and down since last year, but to me this just proves that the bastards used a double, superimposing MJ's face on that dude, because there wasn't enough rehearsal footage to finish the documentary. To me, this isn't good news for the hoax...Sorry <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> Please someone, tell me what other reason could it be that this "Elsewhere" dude is listed as a crew member! why would MJ hire an illusion dancer? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I agree with Mo, that it's all about illusion. I feel positive that much in the movie is MJ dancing with his whole body intact, but then there's all the mixture of this hired dancer with MJ's head, or MJ dancing with a double's face on him. I believe this has all been planned from the start, so I wouldn't be discouraged or worry that it means Kenny didn't have enough rehearsal footage and so fit in some doubles. This is the ultimate in puzzles, in sluthing games. We have wrapped our brains around this movie and how he did it, and we are drawn like a magnet. What possible magician could ever top this mind-blowing performance. Like Liz Taylor said, this movie will come to be seen as the best movie ever produced (something like that). Once you know it's not just what you see but illusion, you will want to watch it over and over and over. That's a masterpiece.
Remember the Barnum Circus passing by Staples Center - one of the attractions was to make a 4 ton elephant disappear. Everything is possible (yet not always feasible without corresponding and supporting means).
I am coming back to "The Tiger Comparison" of a member on MJHD:
Why does a tiger have stripes?
To make it invisible in the gentle waves of trees, branches, bushes and leaves in the forest, creating an interwoven pattern of light and shadows.
What does it take for a perfect hide-away?
1) stripes
(recognizable make-up, outfit, gestures, ways of moving around in the world - in short: creation of an identifiable public appearance - which is a brand.)
Did we notice a lot of "right or left or straight or back" indications having been and still being thrown upon us, blurry pictures, articles that finally said nothing, everybody "knew" something but then nothing but speculation, many "informers" and disinformers, freeriders, gamblers, when someone said "it's red" it was "white" or "blue" or nothing at all - all fog, dust, confusion and uncertainty? Did we feel like having been put in a maze? Were we confused not one time but many times?
What will happen to the tiger?
We cannot, we simply cannot find out behind which tree the tiger is hiding, we cannot cut through all the woods, we cannot get on the track just on our own. It is impossible.
The tiger will have to leave some traces to get us where he wants us to be.
The tiger is always one jump ahead. He's watching us.
Same does apply to entertainment industry as such. All of the said above.
We are being lured into foggy illusions, previously by artificially "set up" stories of the unreachable "upper class" (era of movies with Dame Elizabeth, Rock Hudson, Frank Sinatra, Doris Day, Marilyn Monroe etc.), by stories of the so-called "underground revolution" (era of James Dean, Hippies, Rock, Metal), "family soaps" (clan / dynasty in their "re-told", produced, set up "real" life or "reality" shows - they show the "reality" they want us to see lol), and now "everybody is a star"-soaps (you and I do have enough talent to be made a star).
With 3D and the glimpse of state-of-the-art technique we have seen so far, everything can be fabricated, we don't even need human beings anymore to create (for the time being on screen only) almost perfect replacements that look so much "alike" that it is hard to notice any difference to living human beings.
And what is that and has ever been? A big, big illusion. "make.believe"
Will we see the tiger again?
Only when he wants to or needs to take care of his off-spring.
Is there a way out of the pink bubble of this artificial second, third or fourth life being imposed on us?
Only if we insist to shake hands with the person we are talking to one on one.
Only if we insist to NOT pay them money for the show.
Increasing confusion is a means to destabilize.
Get yourself a good seat.
Didnt the dancers,and others,have to sign a contract,so they could not speak about anything in the making TII,if this vidio is right, alot of people must know about what was going on who were there,just thinking out loud really, <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> this puts a whole new spin on things,i really really dont know what to make of this. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> jermaine did say this is it,but this is not really it,somthing like that. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
The most disgraceful aspect of this technology is that the original artist is not required anymore to participate in the creation of his/her performances.
This is new in the evolution of entertainment:
those behind the curtains don't need the original artist on stage anymore.
Is it scary?
Yes.
The only reassuring factor is that those behind the curtains cannot exist without an audience, no matter what they put on stage, holograms or imposters or green men.
The discouraging factor is that the mass audience will buy no matter what they are being fed and doesn't care about whether it's real or fake.
We are watching the principle of soya cheese on industrialized pizzas being transferred into social interaction.
I want real cheese on my pizza.
Yeah, and it must be one coming out of my own oven with my own dough ... LOL <!-- s --><!-- s -->
This will be the luxury element of the upcoming years:
living the original instead of the fake life. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
We may mark the beginning of this "replacement" in the 2000's years:
Born August 2, 1979, Bernal is a dancer from Santa Ana, California. He became known through this video clip recorded at the talent show Kollaboration (Korean American Talent Show), in 2001. Showcasing Bernal's characteristic style, it became popular and circulated on the internet.
We`re not saying that it wasn`t Michael in TII. But we should think that we can be easily fooled by the new visual technology.
On 1997 who would have thought it could be possible to see a skeleton dancing like Michael. And that trick was amazing.
Michael did say that he had always wanted to direct himself on stage ... maybe he did!?!
Amazing stuff if this is indeed true. Have you seen the latest Argos advert, Bing Crosby beatboxing? Similar technique to the Golf advert with Gene Kelly on David Elsewhere's body. Seems now you cannot tell what is real anymore!
"We felt it was our mission to honor his vision and finish the work, according to the instructions in his notes to us"
Huh? Michael gave them instructions in NOTES?? Where are the notes? What's written in those ?
I think Michael left instructions to I.E. Effects because he knew he would "die" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I'm sorry but so is it possible there was not Michael at all in TII.
Great illusion, but I don't know if I like it...I think it's not fair.
btw TII' s credits says "movement coach" so maybe MJ learned new kind of movements and there's not Barnel dancing.
I wonder why Mike needed a coach about it... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> CONFUSION!!
BTW, in the same article, I found this veeeery interesting:
"The Thriller sequence also includes a visualization of Vincent Price’s famous narration, with the actor’s head floating inside a crystal ball. In the middle of his monologue, a CG crow flies in and sits on his shoulder.
There was an audio voiceover recording of Vincent Price doing the monologue, but there was no video associated with it,” explained Kaminar. “So we did a performance capture with an actor and mapped the movement of his face onto a CG Vincent Price.”
In my oppinion, everything is possible! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
BTW, in the same article, I found this veeeery interesting:
"The Thriller sequence also includes a visualization of Vincent Price’s famous narration, with the actor’s head floating inside a crystal ball. In the middle of his monologue, a CG crow flies in and sits on his shoulder.
There was an audio voiceover recording of Vincent Price doing the monologue, but there was no video associated with it,” explained Kaminar. “So we did a performance capture with an actor and mapped the movement of his face onto a CG Vincent Price.”
In my oppinion, everything is possible! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
it is possible he did Price's part...I don't understand why the best dancer in the whole world needed a movement coach <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
BTW, in the same article, I found this veeeery interesting:
"The Thriller sequence also includes a visualization of Vincent Price’s famous narration, with the actor’s head floating inside a crystal ball. In the middle of his monologue, a CG crow flies in and sits on his shoulder.
There was an audio voiceover recording of Vincent Price doing the monologue, but there was no video associated with it,” explained Kaminar. “So we did a performance capture with an actor and mapped the movement of his face onto a CG Vincent Price.”
In my oppinion, everything is possible! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
it is possible he did Price's part...I don't understand why the best dancer in the whole world needed a movement coach <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
They used a movement coach for the doubles. I am sure Michael did not need one. The doubles may look like him but maybe they do not know how to dance like Michael. I remember when Joe Jackson said that they were all doubles in TII he was very upset. I am so confused in all of this. i guess Michael had his reasons to do so. Blessings
"We felt it was our mission to honor his vision and finish the work, according to the instructions in his notes to us"
Huh? Michael gave them instructions in NOTES?? Where are the notes? What's written in those ?
I think Michael left instructions to I.E. Effects because he knew he would "die" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Impressive what they were preparing for the shows!! My Q then: why DIDN'T we seen ANY of those fabulous effects in the TII movie?? The movie is great but I wouldn't call it "talent never seen before", ehm.
I guess the answer is...we are GOING to see it when Mike comes back <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Do you know, I don't know what to think anymore! I just get to a point where I'm beginning to feel I've got it sorted when something like this comes along and I'm reminded, yet again, that my simple mind cannot begin to go where MJ's does! I don't have a clue how this is all going to pan out, but I have a feeling we haven't even touched the surface yet! I think he's going to surprise the lot of us! (No pressure, Mr Jackson, if you're looking in!)
Comments
If this technique was indeed used, which is highly plausible, then for sure the faces of doubles were used also. There are just too many different faces in that movie. Bye bye "angles/lighting" arguments, welcome "manipulation/mind fuck" arguments. Michael Jackson's This Is It -> also known as Michael Jackson's Big Optical Illusion.
I'm thinking a combination of this technique and doubles were used.
Like you say, some of the faces are too different to even resemble the same person, let alone Michael. That bit when they are filming the drill...That in my opinion cannot be Michael..
But I think it's possible that doubles faces and were used and superimposed onto that dancers body...I mean to the person who said the doubles would have to be able to dance was right! There are a lot of impersonators, but surely not all of them know how to dance. And I always thought the dancing was off anyway. The dancing is different to any other footage of Michael dancing. Some people put this down to age but I didn't buy it. Michael could do the moonwalk in his sleep...
Now my question is...was Michael in this film at all? If so, in what parts do you think??
Maybe Michael was soley 'the director' ??
Hmm makes you wonder...
But the Q remains: WHY?
I am coming back to "The Tiger Comparison" of a member on MJHD:
Why does a tiger have stripes?
To make it invisible in the gentle waves of trees, branches, bushes and leaves in the forest, creating an interwoven pattern of light and shadows.
What does it take for a perfect hide-away?
1) stripes
(recognizable make-up, outfit, gestures, ways of moving around in the world - in short: creation of an identifiable public appearance - which is a brand.)
2) a forest
(creation of trees, bushes and a smooth wind circulation, interwoven patterns of light and shadows - from time to time a dust blowing storm - and in case somebody would be getting too close: some look-alike tigers. Or some techniques as described in the video above or those of Pendulum Studios most likely used for Doc Murray's video:
(see http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9690&p=173373&hilit=pendulum#p171413 and http://www.studiopendulum.com/alterego/clients_and_projects.html)
Did we notice a lot of "right or left or straight or back" indications having been and still being thrown upon us, blurry pictures, articles that finally said nothing, everybody "knew" something but then nothing but speculation, many "informers" and disinformers, freeriders, gamblers, when someone said "it's red" it was "white" or "blue" or nothing at all - all fog, dust, confusion and uncertainty? Did we feel like having been put in a maze? Were we confused not one time but many times?
What will happen to the tiger?
We cannot, we simply cannot find out behind which tree the tiger is hiding, we cannot cut through all the woods, we cannot get on the track just on our own. It is impossible.
The tiger will have to leave some traces to get us where he wants us to be.
The tiger is always one jump ahead. He's watching us.
Same does apply to entertainment industry as such. All of the said above.
We are being lured into foggy illusions, previously by artificially "set up" stories of the unreachable "upper class" (era of movies with Dame Elizabeth, Rock Hudson, Frank Sinatra, Doris Day, Marilyn Monroe etc.), by stories of the so-called "underground revolution" (era of James Dean, Hippies, Rock, Metal), "family soaps" (clan / dynasty in their "re-told", produced, set up "real" life or "reality" shows - they show the "reality" they want us to see lol), and now "everybody is a star"-soaps (you and I do have enough talent to be made a star).
With 3D and the glimpse of state-of-the-art technique we have seen so far, everything can be fabricated, we don't even need human beings anymore to create (for the time being on screen only) almost perfect replacements that look so much "alike" that it is hard to notice any difference to living human beings.
And what is that and has ever been? A big, big illusion. "make.believe"
Will we see the tiger again?
Only when he wants to or needs to take care of his off-spring.
Is there a way out of the pink bubble of this artificial second, third or fourth life being imposed on us?
Only if we insist to shake hands with the person we are talking to one on one.
Only if we insist to NOT pay them money for the show.
Increasing confusion is a means to destabilize.
Get yourself a good seat.
L.O.V.E.
This is new in the evolution of entertainment:
those behind the curtains don't need the original artist on stage anymore.
Is it scary?
Yes.
The only reassuring factor is that those behind the curtains cannot exist without an audience, no matter what they put on stage, holograms or imposters or green men.
The discouraging factor is that the mass audience will buy no matter what they are being fed and doesn't care about whether it's real or fake.
We are watching the principle of soya cheese on industrialized pizzas being transferred into social interaction.
I want real cheese on my pizza.
Yeah, and it must be one coming out of my own oven with my own dough ... LOL <!-- s
This will be the luxury element of the upcoming years:
living the original instead of the fake life. <!-- s
We may mark the beginning of this "replacement" in the 2000's years: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1260/amazing_breakdance/
On 1997 who would have thought it could be possible to see a skeleton dancing like Michael. And that trick was amazing.
min.1,53
[youtube:39aued0p]
Amazing stuff if this is indeed true. Have you seen the latest Argos advert, Bing Crosby beatboxing? Similar technique to the Golf advert with Gene Kelly on David Elsewhere's body. Seems now you cannot tell what is real anymore!
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRonRGEVyT8<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.itsartmag.com/features/thisisit/<!-- m -->
"We felt it was our mission to honor his vision and finish the work, according to the instructions in his notes to us"
Huh? Michael gave them instructions in NOTES?? Where are the notes? What's written in those ?
I think Michael left instructions to I.E. Effects because he knew he would "die" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
This is It (Illusionsary Technology)
Just a thought.... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Great illusion, but I don't know if I like it...I think it's not fair.
btw TII' s credits says "movement coach" so maybe MJ learned new kind of movements and there's not Barnel dancing.
I wonder why Mike needed a coach about it... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> CONFUSION!!
"The Thriller sequence also includes a visualization of Vincent Price’s famous narration, with the actor’s head floating inside a crystal ball. In the middle of his monologue, a CG crow flies in and sits on his shoulder.
There was an audio voiceover recording of Vincent Price doing the monologue, but there was no video associated with it,” explained Kaminar. “So we did a performance capture with an actor and mapped the movement of his face onto a CG Vincent Price.”
In my oppinion, everything is possible! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
it is possible he did Price's part...I don't understand why the best dancer in the whole world needed a movement coach <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
They used a movement coach for the doubles. I am sure Michael did not need one. The doubles may look like him but maybe they do not know how to dance like Michael. I remember when Joe Jackson said that they were all doubles in TII he was very upset. I am so confused in all of this. i guess Michael had his reasons to do so. Blessings
Impressive what they were preparing for the shows!! My Q then: why DIDN'T we seen ANY of those fabulous effects in the TII movie?? The movie is great but I wouldn't call it "talent never seen before", ehm.
I guess the answer is...we are GOING to see it when Mike comes back <!-- s