<br />Sorry to say this, but........<br /><br />at the moment I have mixed feelings! I am sad, sort of disappointed from the FBI, and also happy because finally we have all puzzle pieces put together.<br />I am sad because according to my religious beliefs the guy who died in Michael's house committed suicide. I am sure many would disagree with me, of course. That's why I will not discuss in details why I see it this way. I'm disappointed from the FBI because they chose someone who volunteered for this DWD program. There must have been so many other ways to get a dead body. What about people who are sentenced to death? What about people who already died in accidents, or in hospitals! Getting any corpse form UCLA could have been easier in my opinion and the whole act could have been completely different. <br />I am not a genius, like Michael to put such a plan. But I'm sure that this DWD thing could have been prevented somehow. <br />Anyway, the guys is dead. I guess we should all pray for him, as many of you have posted! I just wonder how did his family feel while he was all alone determined to leave our world for good? I wonder how every body in Michael's house felt after seeing this guy dead, after he was talking to them maybe an hour before he died! It must have been a sad scene! Did this guy suffer while dying? Did anyone know how he was feeling while dying? I am sure it was not the case because he had to be left alone! In all the cases I know people prefer to die among their families because they will never see them again.<br />But again, who cares! His death is legal, no doubt! <br /><br />Once again, thank you TS for the information given to us. Now we can move on ...........<br /><br />Blessings<br />
<br /><br />Diggy my love I well understand what you are trying to say but you may take it this way: not being used as a DWD patient to serve this hoax purpose wouldn't stopped this person from killing himself however having done it this way FBI has lengthened his life a little bit more due to the need of moving his body from WA to LA, he has been assisted and pampered until his last minute of life furthermore he has played "The Good Samaritan" role if with his death is gonna clear MJ's name and reputation once and for all, so may he rest in peace and I am pretty pretty sure that Michael is gonna pay him a BIG TRIBUTE if he haven't done it yet. <br />
Well if we are supposed to in any way serve as prevention for entrapment by being able to discern the truth from the deception, I at least personally failed MJ in this mission and I'm sorry.<br /><br />Without TS_comments we never would have figured this out so I'm not sure how this serves as preventing an entrapment defense. He just handed us all the answers on a silver platter and all that training and guidance regarding how to conduct a proper investigation and evaluate a reliable source from an unreliable one, and legitimate information from hearsay/gossip was all for naught. <br /><br />My brain must work incorrectly. I apologize for trying to make others believe my bullshit.
<br />Well if we are supposed to in any way serve as prevention for entrapment by being able to discern the truth from the deception, I at least personally failed MJ in this mission and I'm sorry.<br /><br />Without TS_comments we never would have figured this out so I'm not sure how this serves as preventing an entrapment defense. He just handed us all the answers on a silver platter and all that training and guidance regarding how to conduct a proper investigation and evaluate a reliable source from an unreliable one, and legitimate information from hearsay/gossip was all for naught. <br /><br />My brain must work incorrectly. I apologize for trying to make others believe my bullshit.<br />
<br />Noooo don't feel like that! I think you've done an excellent job with the limited information that we had to work with. It took Michael (and FBI) 20 plus years to plan this, so we can't be too hard on ourselves if we couldn't place together all the pieces in ~4 years. Honestly, I'm not sure if we would have gotten as far as we did without you and I happen to admire the way your brain works. All your time and effort is greatly appreciated! Love u :bearhug:
@TS....thank you very much for keeping your word and answer all ours doubts, I am crying of emotion to have learned how the events unfolded that day, very good job you have made my day and my year and I am looking forward to the day that the whole world will be aware of Michael being alive I can't wait and next Christmas are gonna be the happiest of my life. :beerchug: :smiley_abuv: :multiplespotting:<br /><br />1st ps. TS you a re a smart ass man! :icon_lol:<br /><br />2nd ps. Bec you have made a very good job and I am sure TS appreciate it.
A lot of reading. :th_bravo:<br /><br /> However, all your hard work comes back to parts of a theory that was there since 2009. Does anyone remember "Illuminus Theo"?<br /><br />Michael Jackson is not Dead; so WHO died?<br />http://illuminustheo.blogspot.se/2009/07/michael-jackson-is-not-dead-so-who-died.html<br /><br />"Michael Jackson did not die--but someone else did. Who died in Jackson's place, and why did Michael Jackson stage his own death in one of the greatest ruses in history? For that matter, why did my own highly reclusive order help Jackson pull this off?"<br /><br /><br />Theories, even if plausible, mean nothing unless Michael comes back alive and tells the world that he is not dead.<br /><br />
We tried our best with what we had available at hand.<br />There's no reason to feel sorry. We did not know everything and yet found out so much.<br />bec, especially you should not have any withdrawing feelings because you are not afraid to give your reasoning - even if it may not be the perfect answer. We would not have grown this far without your thoughts.<br />It is so easy to stop talking just because one could step on another person's toes with what one says.<br />It is what most people prefer because it prevents from any conflict.<br />You are not that kind of person. You stick out and you are not afraid of it.<br /><br />All my :smiley_abuv:<br /><br />Thank you, bec, for being a light.<br /> :bearhug:
<br />Well if we are supposed to in any way serve as prevention for entrapment by being able to discern the truth from the deception, I at least personally failed MJ in this mission and I'm sorry.<br /><br />Without TS_comments we never would have figured this out so I'm not sure how this serves as preventing an entrapment defense. He just handed us all the answers on a silver platter and all that training and guidance regarding how to conduct a proper investigation and evaluate a reliable source from an unreliable one, and legitimate information from hearsay/gossip was all for naught. <br /><br />My brain must work incorrectly. I apologize for trying to make others believe my bullshit.<br />
<br /><br />Aw Come on Bec...no one is a born investigator...we learn as we grow, that's how it should be...TS was gracious enough to help us out through this whole investigation, he was out teacher, a guide...No one is a loser here. We know more about Michael than before...we know more about him each day. And we were blessed enough to be a part of his mission and that itself makes us winners...We won! And Michael will DEFINITELY WIN!<br />We did prevent Michael from entrapment because even if we never did all this extensive research, we would know by the basic preliminary clues that Michael was alive, and i think that's enough...isn't it?<br /><br />(u did a harder job than anyone else here, so a big thank u for that )
<br />Sorry to say this, but........<br /><br />at the moment I have mixed feelings! I am sad, sort of disappointed from the FBI, and also happy because finally we have all puzzle pieces put together.<br />I am sad because according to my religious beliefs the guy who died in Michael's house committed suicide. I am sure many would disagree with me, of course. That's why I will not discuss in details why I see it this way. I'm disappointed from the FBI because they chose someone who volunteered for this DWD program. There must have been so many other ways to get a dead body. What about people who are sentenced to death? What about people who already died in accidents, or in hospitals! Getting any corpse form UCLA could have been easier in my opinion and the whole act could have been completely different. <br />I am not a genius, like Michael to put such a plan. But I'm sure that this DWD thing could have been prevented somehow. <br />Anyway, the guys is dead. I guess we should all pray for him, as many of you have posted! I just wonder how did his family feel while he was all alone determined to leave our world for good? I wonder how every body in Michael's house felt after seeing this guy dead, after he was talking to them maybe an hour before he died! It must have been a sad scene! Did this guy suffer while dying? Did anyone know how he was feeling while dying? I am sure it was not the case because he had to be left alone! In all the cases I know people prefer to die among their families because they will never see them again.<br />But again, who cares! His death is legal, no doubt! <br /><br />Once again, thank you TS for the information given to us. Now we can move on ...........<br /><br />Blessings<br />
<br /><br /><br />Well Diggy, first I want to say that I understand you and your feelings. You have the right to be upset with the FBI’s decision. What I understand is that it couldn’t have been done with a corpse, it had to be someone who just died and they decided it was the best way to achieve the goals.<br /><br />Also, this in no way is done to support or condemn this practice. I do not think that this is part of Michael’s message. It was just the FBI who decided it would be done this way (for this part of the hoax). That’s how I see it.<br /><br />Concerning your belief I share the same but even though I think it maybe wasn’t a good way to leave this planet I cannot judge the person who chose this way of departure. I have seen my grand-father die in front of my eyes, he was in a terrible condition and suffering for several months, so much so that I prayed God to take him back because that was the best thing that could happen (apart from a miracle but it really wasn’t likely to happen). All this to tell you that I would understand that someone chooses such an extreme way to end their sufferings. I prefer to not judge their choice, only God can do that and for all that we know He can have forgiven this person, God is the Most Merciful. <br /><br /> :bearhug:<br />
You guys are all very sweet, as always, supportive, I thank you.<br /><br />But here's the problem.<br /><br />In regards to what we know: I think I know a lot of things. I use the same logic and same common sense methods to evaluate a lot of information, and the same brain that thought it knew what was up with Level 7 is the same brain that I use when I say I (think) I know that MJ is not dead. Same methods, same investigation skills, same access to same information.<br /><br />You follow?<br /><br />Doesn't bode well for my ability to discern truth in anything.<br /><br />Evidence for DWD patient is same evidence for Dead MJ.
For those who feel sad about euthanasia, just to say that may be "the body" was already dead, keept in a freezer untill day X (that´s why the room was warmed up), propofol administered post mortem as well as pumping the heart with heart massage. We discussed in the past rigor mortis and the possibility of the body(if any) being dead in advance.
I had to work today, because a colleague of mine became ill, I was thinking of you TS & Front, the first thing I did was jumping in here :icon_bounce: Wow! I really have to catch up :icon_cool: First make diner. See ya later! Love to you :bearhug:
<br />Well if we are supposed to in any way serve as prevention for entrapment by being able to discern the truth from the deception, I at least personally failed MJ in this mission and I'm sorry.<br /><br />Without TS_comments we never would have figured this out so I'm not sure how this serves as preventing an entrapment defense. He just handed us all the answers on a silver platter and all that training and guidance regarding how to conduct a proper investigation and evaluate a reliable source from an unreliable one, and legitimate information from hearsay/gossip was all for naught. <br /><br />My brain must work incorrectly. I apologize for trying to make others believe my bullshit.<br />
<br /><br /><br />I know how you feel! I'm questioning my reasoning skills as well... :errrr: I hope no one felt I was trying to force my opinion on them, I just needed help getting past my objections but I'm working on that.<br /><br />Despite the completed puzzle there are still missing pieces. I'm going to re-read what TS wrote. Truth will prevail in time. Hopefully the magician will reveal his secrets from that day. I'm going to keep watchin' until that time.<br />
@bec......no BS at all, you have done an amazing job...... thank you.<br /><br />I don't know why, but something is not sitting right with me. I don't know what it is, but I feel like there's more to the "story".<br />Sorry TS, you know I have nothing but high regard for you and thank you very much for all you have written...but what's the real deal here? I have a hard time thinking Michael would have plainly "used" a DWD person for his hoax, his adventure, his mind-blowing experience from beyond the grave. I know I shouldn't impose my thoughts about what another may or may not do. However, I see Michael more the smoke-and-mirrors type of guy....pure illusion. If a DWD person was used, there must have been a reason....a really good reason. I just don't see it with all this. I know all the information is here, it's all on that silver platter. Perhaps, I have become too jaded to believe any truth in writing. <br /><br />Well, it's going to be a long day............my daughter is home sick and life takes over. I am patiently waiting to read/hear/see more. I have <br />a feeling we will be amazed with what's to come. Michael......you're brilliant, amazing, nerve-racking and fiendishly sly.....I love it : ) Whatever<br />happens....I'll be here. <br /><br />Blessings Always
@wishing@bec@andrea<;br /><br />There's definitely more to the story. What we know right is , imo, the blue print of the hoax. We needed to know whether he was alive and if he was, how he did the hoax. And whether its convincing or not, TS has said that's how it is done...and as he said we may continue to discuss, but this is what the story is...
#12 The verdict: “Superior court of California Los Angeles County. The people of the state of California plaintiff versus Conrad Robert Murray defendant. Case number SA-073164. Title of court and cause. We the jury in the above entitled action find the defendant Conrad Robert Murray guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter. In violation of penal code section 192 subsection B alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson alleged date of June 25th 2009 as charged in count I of the information.” The charge stated in context is “involuntary manslaughter”—not suicide, or assisted suicide; so even if the DWD patient method was illegal in CA, yet the patient would not be an actual victim of manslaughter (he would be an “alleged victim”). And especially with the FBI sting making the DWD method legal in CA, there is certainly no legal basis for the patient being an actual victim of manslaughter.
<br /><br />Well, I am not familiar with the law in USA and I am translating my opinions from my own mother tounge in to English, so may be I am not translating the terms 100% accurate, but I know that in other countries, "manslaughter"and the consequences of it may be different depending of how it was executed, as well as why. <br />Let´s say I shoot you and kill you, but before that event took place, you signed a note, a suicide/ will note, explaining "why" I should shoot you and why you are ok with it. That fact would make you (the person I shoot) an "alleged victim" because you are not a victim, you decided when and how to terminate your life.
<br />Well if we are supposed to in any way serve as prevention for entrapment by being able to discern the truth from the deception, I at least personally failed MJ in this mission and I'm sorry.<br /><br />Without TS_comments we never would have figured this out so I'm not sure how this serves as preventing an entrapment defense. He just handed us all the answers on a silver platter and all that training and guidance regarding how to conduct a proper investigation and evaluate a reliable source from an unreliable one, and legitimate information from hearsay/gossip was all for naught. <br /><br />My brain must work incorrectly. I apologize for trying to make others believe my bullshit.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Bec, do not feel bad, just defended your opinion with what you had on hand, TS gave us the answers. You did a good job, enjoy it, we now have a more certain of the facts, the horizon is clearer now. We are not here to judge, we just want to know what really happened, gets all my love.<br /><br /> :bearhug:
Bec...why do your posts suddenly seem like you're beating yourself up? It's not like everyone just took the final exam and failed. I think the main purpose we've served "against entrapment" was just BEING...existing..."knowing" that the events of 6/25 didn't make sense. Our knowing that proves that anyone COULD HAVE known..and would have known if they'd bothered. Perhaps whomever or whatever the targets are in this were just too damn busy licking their chops and going about continuing their activity that's maybe (hopefully) about to bite them in the ass. It's always been a challenge to figure out the details but I really don't think it was ultimately necessary that one of us (or the group collectively) actually figured it out in full. I have to say that the longer this all went on it tended to give merit that there were more serious undertones involved. If it was simply a game...the GOTCHA could have happened a long time ago and still had the desired effect. <br /><br />I'm just like everyone else in that my brain feels like it's done a few somersaults in the last couple of days...but I think it's important not to let the fact that this particular milestone has been reached (finally) by us being "given" answers seem like some kind of failure. The only "failure" would have been to remain sleeping like so many others and to not have bothered to TRY. Besides...some here seem to think it unwise to satisfy the appetite from this latest silver platter offering...and I think even TS said continued discussion would likely result.<br /><br />PS...on preview I just saw your subsequent post and it sounds like you're worried that we've all been wrong all of this time...is that what's going on? If it is I think it's a huge leap to think that we could have been wrong about him still being earthbound just because we couldn't figure out the details of how the illusion was accomplished without being blown. To me that's like saying you're not sure the water in a glass actually exists simply because you couldn't personally witness or replicate the actual chemical combination of the H and the O. Stop being so hard on yourself woman!
Not sure what else there is to discuss?<br /><br />3 years and 5 months of discussion resulted in us knowing nothing at all. The FBI involvement means we do not have access to the truth.<br /><br />I seriously wonder if he is really dead after all and this has all been just fantasy land because every little bit of "evidence" we have is based on half-truths and partial knowledge. Like we are so much smarter then the rest of the world. Please.
<br />Sorry to say this, but........<br /><br />at the moment I have mixed feelings! I am sad, sort of disappointed from the FBI, and also happy because finally we have all puzzle pieces put together.<br />I am sad because according to my religious beliefs the guy who died in Michael's house committed suicide. I am sure many would disagree with me, of course. That's why I will not discuss in details why I see it this way. I'm disappointed from the FBI because they chose someone who volunteered for this DWD program. There must have been so many other ways to get a dead body. What about people who are sentenced to death? What about people who already died in accidents, or in hospitals! Getting any corpse form UCLA could have been easier in my opinion and the whole act could have been completely different. <br />I am not a genius, like Michael to put such a plan. But I'm sure that this DWD thing could have been prevented somehow. <br />Anyway, the guys is dead. I guess we should all pray for him, as many of you have posted! I just wonder how did his family feel while he was all alone determined to leave our world for good? I wonder how every body in Michael's house felt after seeing this guy dead, after he was talking to them maybe an hour before he died! It must have been a sad scene! Did this guy suffer while dying? Did anyone know how he was feeling while dying? I am sure it was not the case because he had to be left alone! In all the cases I know people prefer to die among their families because they will never see them again.<br />But again, who cares! His death is legal, no doubt! <br /><br />Once again, thank you TS for the information given to us. Now we can move on ...........<br /><br />Blessings<br />
<br /><br />Diggy, as I said in another post, I think this plan must have been very painful for MJ. I think that MJ only take the solution that the FBI offered him up I would say that MJ did not even make contact with the patient DWD. With repect to the patient DWD mean that was his decision, seriously sick person, he just wants to end it, and must have been a time before a desicion, not risk the person repents, sounds bad to say this, and if the patient feels he can help another before leaving, why not do it?. It is an act of love, which in turn shortens their suffering (I say this with real knowledge) often only sick people undergo painful treatments, just for the family, but at some point you just want to end the pain. I understand your questions and I can say that I lived this very closely, and nobody wants to see you love suffer, do not believe you have suffered, the drug probably just put him to sleep. with all my love
Bec, don´t blame yourself 100% on your thoughts.<br /><br />Remember what LaToya said "watch the movie the illusionist if you want to know the truth". Was she honest or was she just pulling the legs of us"weirdoes"?. <br /><br />However, to assume, think or play with the idea that an international artist like MJ could have faked his dead - knowing how his life turned during the last 20 years - is not unusual.<br /><br />He said "they" were after him, he said the word conspiracy. More proof? yeah, he said so and if I would be in his situation, I would contact the authorities and beg for help to save mine and my family´s lives.<br /><br />About his drug use or capricious ways - as asking for propfol - we got the version of Murray vs Michaels, but one could guess. Most of the people think that he had his private drug dealer, Murray. Others think that Michael was healthy and did not take drugs. What do we really know? Our "investigations" are just speculations and will stay that way for ever and ever.<br /><br />And to end. Many ended up here because of a gut feeling, not because of investigative skills. We also have our little personal reasons of "why" is easier the feeling that "idol Michael" is still here than in the other hood.<br /><br />Look at the Elvis is Alive forum! For how many years are people trying to find out what happened to him? or Tupac? or Jim Morrison?<br /><br />It is "normal" that people would think that Michael "did it", it is attached to being famous.
<br />Not sure what else there is to discuss?<br /><br />3 years and 5 months of discussion resulted in us knowing nothing at all. The FBI involvement means we do not have access to the truth.<br /><br />I seriously wonder if he is really dead after all and this has all been just fantasy land because every little bit of "evidence" we have is based on half-truths and partial knowledge. Like we are so much smarter then the rest of the world. Please.<br />
<br /><br />Bec, I am surprised you say this, you imagine a woman brave in thought and with an open mind. Really think we know "everything"? but even when it comes to FBI, Secret Service or any other elite institution. stop beating yourself up.
sorry, I haven't posted hardly ever in these long years, but I have read everything. TS has provided a plausible explanation, but it is not said that it is the truth! His theory is ill-suited to the idea of Michael and that he is a God-fearing man who respect life. I do not know, for me the suicide theory do not fit with him. If that is the truth I don't think Michael will be back ever. @ Bec : I hope your intuitions correspond to the truth with all my hearth... I love you all...
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