You know Bec...I said from the beginning that this was all a movie and everyone jumped all over me for it!!<br />It would be insensitive of Michael because of the fans to believe he's dead. He'd never do that! <br />Now, these past months that's what you think and it's all okay?<br />I've been trying to prove it must be a sting, because of all the posts on here saying it is, and changing my mind set from<br />it being just a movie!!<br />Honestly, I try to think for myself, and I get picked on for it. Now, others say what I thought for myself and it's all fine.<br />About Michael's finances, I was really just repeating what we've been told. As in every single thing we KNOW about Michael!<br />ALL we know about him is JUST want he's let us know, and that was ONE.<br />I never believed that, if you can go back into my 1300 posts, I said, how could he be bankrupt owning that hotel...and who knows how much more?<br />I always try not to pick just one single reason for this hoax, because I know someone will tear me up for it...occasionally I finally post my thoughts on a decision, and sure enough...NO it can't be right.<br />I'm not trying to be THE right one, because we know, things you thought were right, and others don't will one day be the very thought<br />that now is the one to believe.<br />I appreciate all your work and thoughts Bec...;)
the simplicity of doing everything as real as possible
<br /><br />SIMPLICITY - what a wonderful word bow/<br />..................<br />Too bad I've lost the ability to think is simple terms now /pull hair/ Everything has to be huge/mysterious/complicated :shock:<br /><br />And I feel so stupid because I am the only one who doesn't know why we have to believe that infamous ambulance photo was staged in advance :'(<br />
<br /><br />Ginafelicia, please just keep an opened mind.. I have been reading your several post, and this is the last one that broke the camel's back.. Please stop whinning, and just put your head together and think.. I know it is hard, it is hard for me too, I am trying hard to find what happened that day, but I do not whine and be negative. I do not want to harp on you, you are an intelligent young woman you can do it girl, you can do anything you put your mind to.. MJ did it, so can we.. <br />
<br /><br />You know I really hate it when people tell me what to do.<br />If I want to whine I'll whine.<br />If I want to scream I'll scream.<br />If I want to be stupid I will be stupid.<br />Just let me be.<br />I can't live up to the standards OTHER try to impose me to live up at.<br />Like Bec said, just let me believe what I want to believe. Just let me go through this hoax in my own way.<br />I always try to be polite and not respond, but I just can't take it anymore.<br />When someone has logical arguments I like to listen and learn.<br />But when I'm just told things like I am a puppet who can be moved around where OTHERS want, like I can't think for myself - it's too much.<br />And if I want to cry, I'll cry. Officially Mike is missing, this is giving me reasons enough to cry.<br />End of it.<br /><br />[size=18pt]And for your information I'm keeping a VERY OPEN MIND, I'm sorry you and others can't notice that.[/size]<br />And I don't need OTHERS to tell me what I am or what I am not. Ask my husband <br />
<br /><br />Gina....I HEAR YOU!!<br />I've wanted to post to you awhile... I think you should feel just how you feel. It is our feelings about Michael that brought us here to begin with.<br />Also, some of us just get our thoughts rejected and shoved about anyhow. You are not alone in this. Most tend to just leave. You and I stay, because of how we feel about Michael.<br />We are not here to JUST try to be the one to figure this out..but we want to be with others believing that Michael is alive. We want to KNOW and understand, but not necessarily be told WHAT so and so believe is what we should be believing even though it don't make sense to us.<br />Some of us, in the end, will just believe on pure FAITH. A faith that we have in Michael, and that he's alive.<br />Keep your faith. Keep believing. You are not alone.♥
Not to burst anyones bubble, but Linda from star maps said she saw an ambulance arrive at MJ's house at 11:45 am.......She also says she got call from a friend, telling here that MJ was dead in the house..<br /><br />Nex, we meet the driver of Starline tours...He also says that he was told MJ was dead already, before the ambulance left...<br /><br />This is the video....can only post the link <br /><br />http://cnn.com/video/?/video/showbiz/2011/09/28/michael-jackson-star-maps.cnn
Great Pictures SimPattyK. I don't know how you do it. The two tone hand is fishy !!!!! Perhaps someone is playing Murray on some scenes in Court etc. ????? Maybe ? Now you have me wondering about Travis Payne. I think he has different roles in this hoax. Different acting parts. Things that make you go hmmmmmm........... It seems like there is a group of actors playing different parts in the funeral, memorial,This is it Movie, court, and other things like the Hollywood Tonight Video. Some are even in the Immortal Tour. This is Great !!!!!!!!!! /bravo/
I edited my other posts to rethink this. <br /><br />Here is MY conclusion (love it or hate it I care not) :roll:<br /><br />All the ambulance theories and explanations are Incomplete.<br /><br />Why? because they are just theories. You can find any amount of information to "support" or "explain" the theory, but it doesn't make it factual. If it were concrete, there wouldn't be other variables to explain the same thing. <br /><br />Possible is just that...."possible".<br /><br /><br /><br />These theories in themselves are a form of mind control.<br /><br /><br /><br />A body, no body...was it live or taped?, real picture or fake picture, who's in /who's out.....<br /><br />It makes no difference, it is designed to lead you into a direction to think a certain way, but the details are still based on someone elses presentation/interpretation.<br /><br /><br />You are your only first hand experience. :geek:<br /><br /><br />So my answer is......
Let's start of the beginning....for the general public, that means June 25th. Working backwards as TS suggests, what sort of people/companies would have to be involved for this to appear as a real news story? For now, put aside the reasons...concentrate on the how it was done....what did we see/when: <br />-Media .....including TV, Radio, Newspapers/magazines, (the traditional stuff)<br />-Media....including YouTube videos, "fan made" videos, Wiki info, various online magazines like LipStick Alley etc.,(non traditional)<br />-Props for realism (easy to obtain in Hollywood)<br />-actors (also easy to obtain in Hollywood)<br />-a good CG/special effects company (set in motion with the Dome Project as to not raise suspicion perhaps) <br /><br />One thing I have tried to find out, but am having trouble with is exactly what companies are owned by Michael or a subsidiary of his or someone close to Michael that would help with this: <br />-Hollywood TV<br />-TMZ<br />-NPG <br />-HLN (CNN) etc.......after the allegations, did Michael set out to create the world's largest set-up? To do that he would need the help of media.....by owning it, literally. I know what the internet says as far as ownership for some of these examples, however, from where I sit, it's all hearsay. Who truly owns something probably takes a little more digging than I can do. So if working backwards, as TS suggests, let's take a look at things starting with who broke the story first:<br /><br />I first heard about through a text of a friend.....I was not home. Did the story break through a simple series of texts...easily done really. By the time I got home a few minutes later, it was rampant all over the airways. Though I was in shock, and actually didn't watch too much. I know it was covered by every channel. The question remains....who broke the story....I believe it was TMZ (?) a reasonable guess at least. How did they know....police scanner? That brings me to no police presence at the start......another "issue" for me. All TMZ would have to do is place a call to any other media asking if they had heard....the media is now informed. Likely Michael has a hand in TMZ. Who covered the backwards ambulance video....Hollywood TV. The name alone suggests fakery...it's Hollywood, not-real TV. Likely again, Michael as part of that...they have been used extensively. Real ambulance/fire truck....it would appear so. Unless Michael purchased and funded an entire fire station for years, Station 71 really exists. So even if the ambulance wasn't real, they would have seen it on the news and would have spoken out as, "that wasn't us.......". So, real emergency vehicles, yet no police at the start, interesting. I have read you can rent vehicles for movies etc, use as props etc......I suppose that could have played into it. I can't help but think Fire Station 71 has a role in this......do they absolutely exist? From where I sit, yes...they are listed on the LA area websites. Were they paid or rented out as a whole or did Michael agree to but them all new equipment/remodel the fire house....what. If so, why didn't Michael include police vehicles from the start? Even if they didn't show up at the same time as fire truck/ambulance they would have had the time to get there and help back out the ambulance, direct traffic away from the driveway instead of the relaxed security guard....we see no police in the original ambulance video...curious to me. That alone leads me to a staged event, broadcasted by media owned my Michael. The tour bus...again, did he buy that or set up the story as such.....possible. Linda-the-map-lady could all be a fictional character put in place with her backstory. Starline tours...again, Michael could have thought to put that in place...by way of rental or purchase. <br />Actors could be anyone we have seen thus far....seems there a many Hollywood....go figure he'd choose Hollywood. We have seen on IMDB many folks listed as actors, including Conrad Murray. So that one is settled, actors play some part of this officially. Anyone who helped carry this out on June 25 could technically still be under contract not to say a word and just keep on the role.<br /><br />Well, that's as far as I can get right now...but wanted to go ahead and post it to get any feedback on what other companies might need to be in on it...UCLA mostly likely. If he's indeed wanting to build a new children's hospital, UCLA could benefit from it and be behind that. Ok.....gotta go for now...thank you for letting me post my thoughts.<br /><br />Blessings <br />
Murray's life does seem to mirror Michael's, and in his documentary Murray said "me and Michael lead similar lives", he was talking about his relationship with his father, but still. Also the travis payne thumb thing is very suspicious suspicious// , their noses also look similar. <br /><br />(i hate those pictures of michael from the trial )
<br />Just a quick thought I had whilst outside gardening which leads from bec's post above....<br /><br />Judge Pastor deliberately focussed our attention to the date June 9th 2009 when he read out the Jury Forms during the verdict. Remember the Jury had written the incorrect "death" date as June 9th 2009 and crossed it out with "squiggly lines"and then written June 25th 2009. I think he did this for a VERY good reason......to make sure we remembered that significant date again.<br /><br />As we know June 9th 2009 was when MJ apparently finished filming the "top secret" Dome Project at Culver studios. ...wasn't it suggested ages ago that Dome project stood for Death of Me !!!<br /><br />We know that the scenes for Thriller, Smooth Criminal etc were filmed during the Dome Project. Perhaps as well as these, all the images, footage, photos etc we have seen from his "death" day were actually filmed too, using green screens and sets during this time of the Dome Project and released as needed. I am sure TS talked about this ages ago in another level.<br /><br />Now how this works in with if an ambulance really went to Carolwood Drive and then to UCLA on June 25th to make the day more "real"and also WHAT/WHO exactly went in the ambulance and how that then ties in with who is in on it and who isn't......well....I have to think more about that whilst ripping up weeds.<br />
<br /><br />I don't want to derail this topic but I found this video regarding June 9, 2009. This video was uploaded on June 25, 2009. Can someone explain how this person got their video up so quickly and with a lot of pictures that we've all discussed as being odd? And the video ends with "I am Justice". Hmmm...<br /><br /><br /><br />
Michael Jackson DIED 6/9/09 -Deat NoTe<br />b00se
<br /><br />I find it interesting that this person uses upper and lower case letters and this was before the "hoax" officially started to the world of beLIEvers.<br /><br />A couple of thoughts about MJ going in the ambulance to UCLA. The person could have been very much alive and healthy but maybe it was one of MJ's impersonators. They would only be seen from afar. And once inside UCLA they could change into their normal look and nobody would realize?<br /><br />The ambulance had to go to UCLA just like the helicopter did leave the roof of the hospital that day because other news agencies were filming it. But that doesn't mean the helicopter wasn't also a movie prop.<br /><br />I have a few thoughts that I'll put down later but wanted to share this video. I think that the judge bringing up 6/9/09 is significant.<br /><br />Blessings.
@Dontwalkaway: I have the same question marks in my head as you do!! <br /><br /><br />@wishingstar: Great post! Good thinking! mj_dance/<br /><br />Regarding what you said about the Ambulance/Fire station [size=12pt]71[/size], here's another numerology aspect that is very bizarre: <br />Remember Felix Bush Breazeale the man who faked his funeral back in 1938? And then a movie was made about his story, released in 2009!?<br /> [those who don't know what I'm talking about, please look into this topic: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20289.msg351809.html#msg351809 ]<br /><br />The distance between the year when Breazeale faked his funeral and the year when Michael faked his death is exactly [size=12pt]71[/size] years! Just another nice "coincidence" <br /><br />[size=12pt]1938+ 1 + 9 + 3 + 8 = 21
)) 21=7+7+7
)) 777<br /> 71<br />_____<br />=2009[/size]<br /><br /><br />[size=12pt]And 71 = 7+1 = 8 ---)) again ELVIS number !!! [/size] elvis_/<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br />So I want to start this level by debunking all the false theories about the ambulance (such as more than one ambulance, or it went to UCLA on a different day, etc). There is little point in discussing who or what went to UCLA on June 25 in the ambulance, if we’re not even sure whether the ambulance itself went to UCLA on June 25 2009! I need your help bringing all these theories to this thread, whether you believe in them or not; but please read all the posts in this thread before posting one of these theories, and make sure that it’s not a repeat of the same basic theory already discussed and debunked. Also, anyone can help out in the debunking process as well; this will help us get to the end faster.<br /><br />8-)<br /><br />Once that is done (level 7a), we’ll move on to level 7b; I probably won’t start a new thread, but I will post a picture in this thread of another puzzle piece put into place. Level 7b will be who or what went to UCLA on June 25, 2009. When that is resolved, I will post another step in the puzzle pieces coming together; and we will finish this level with 7c, which will be any further details about the FBI, sting, and court. When level 7c is done, I will post a picture of the completed puzzle.<br /><br />penguin/<br /><br />At this point, I’m going to give you a couple of real good pointers, which should help you as we go through this final level. Start with the fewest people possible in on it, which would actually be zero and no hoax (MJ really died); and then work backwards from that point—changing nothing from the no hoax scenario, except what is NEEDED to be changed in order to accomplish the hoax. I already gave you an example with the ambulance: if MJ really died, then the ambulance came to Carolwood and went to UCLA on June 25, 2009. Don’t change that for the hoax, unless there is a need for it to happen on a different day. And use this same principle, in putting all the pieces together.<br /><br />Last but not least, here is a real good statement from bec, which she posted in my recent thread about the timing of the 911 call (12:20 or 12:21?). Keep this concept in mind, because it applies to far more than just the 911 call. “One good reason I can think of doing an actual call that day (not 911, just a call) is for realism later. It’s very easy to keep up appearances if what you are talking about actually happened. Alvarez’s testimony and statements, Murray’s statements on this documentary, they can be describing an actual staged scene as opposed to just a figment of imagination. Recalling an actual event would give their statements a sense of realism, instead of them simply reciting lines.” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21289.msg370203#msg370203}.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Just so we can remember where we are (I forgot too, I'm not above being distracted, trust me, lol).
I thought we thoroughly debunked the ambulances on 2 different days theory (by trying to prove it WAS 2 different days) during level 3?<br /><br />I remember pouring over those videos; the one of HTV on 6/25 and the fan video of the day after, trying to come up with proof that those videos must have been shot many days in between instead of just a day in between. I remember picking apart the vegetation in an attempt to prove this (since trees and shrubs take many days, even months to produce visible growth).<br /><br />Recall the watersprouts extending up from the bush at the entrance to Carrolwood. They were present on the HTV video but not in the fan video. I was at a loss to explain this and thought this vegetative growth was a sign that we were dealing with an extended period of time between the videos (PROOF: Ambulance @Carrolwood 2 separate days) when TS piped up and pointed out that the fan's video was such quality that the pixilation could not capture such detail. Recall that he mentioned that those who do not have a background in film would be hard pressed to know this fact regarding video quality, so he gave me a break and threw me that bone: FALSE LEAD.<br /><br />In the course of this exchange and investigation, much like the study of the teeth on O2 guy, I set out to prove one thing, and ended up proving the opposite.<br /><br />In addition, remember from LaToya's book, the outside of Carrolwood held a constant presence of MJs stalker fans, who stayed all night to watch his window light (insert eye roll). These stalker fans had a habit of STALKING MJ, and would be aware of any ambulance entering or leaving Carrolwood on any other day before 6/25/09, making the possibility of this footage being shot previous extremely unlikely. The risk would be unnecessarily high, and we have been at a constant loss to explain the BENEFIT of filming the ambulance footage prior.<br /><br />WHY would MJ need to film the ambulance footage ahead of time? I don't know. I can't come up with a purpose for this.<br /><br />So in conclusion, I'm left having to concede that the ambulance footage was shot live on scene at Carrolwood on 6/25/09. IOW: the ambulance did come to Carrolwood, and did leave Carrolwood, on 6/25/09 sometime between 12:30 and 1pm.
To piggyback on my last post, the ambulance that arrived and then subsequently left Carrolwood on 6/25/09, would almost have to go to UCLA, because the chances of SOMEONE not in on the hoax jumping in a vehicle to FOLLOW it would be extremely high. Remember all the reports of the stalker fans who would sit outside Carrolwood and then drive behind MJ's entourage to follow him to Staples center or wherever he went. Many reports of this... they would RACE to follow him all around town, wherever he went, to be there to greet him, on the chance that they would see him, have a chance to talk to him, touch his hand, give him gifts, etc.<br /><br />So the ambulance that indeed arrived at and then left Carrolwood HAD to go to UCLA, just to keep up appearances. The risk of it not doing so, and being detected by one of these stalker fans would be ridiculously high, and again, for what benefit? The hoax had to continue on location @UCLA that day (6/25/09) in order for the next phase to be completed anyway (family arrival, fan vigil outside, stretcher .gif, helicopter footage, etc).
<br />[....]<br />So in conclusion, I'm left having to concede that the ambulance footage was shot live on scene at Carrolwood on 6/25/09. IOW: the ambulance did come to Carrolwood, and did leave Carrolwood, on 6/25/09 sometime between 12:30 and 1pm.<br />
All the vegetation difference that you talked about could be explained by the Dome project film! Michael could have filmed 'the ambulance-scene" in a decor set to look like it had been filmed outside Carolwood on the 25th of June!<br /><br />It's possible that they filmed everything "in-doors", far away from the fans-stalkers' eyes, inside the Dome?<br /><br />Michael Jackson Wrapped 'Dome Project' Before He Died ----)) http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00025360.html<br /><br /><br />http://mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/2009/10/mjs-dome-project-culver-studios.html<br /><br />
Not really Sim. Because those stalker fans would still be sitting outside Carrolwood and would be witnesses to the fact that NOTHING happened outside Carrolwood on 6/25/09.
@Bec: Strangely enough there weren't many 'fans" outside Carolwood in the Ambulance film!<br />Just a few people who could be very well all involved in it!
<br />Two quotes from TS's original post:<br /><br />"So I want to start this level by debunking all the false theories about the ambulance (such as more than one ambulance, or it went to UCLA on a different day, etc). There is little point in discussing who or what went to UCLA on June 25 in the ambulance, if we’re not even sure whether the ambulance itself went to UCLA on June 25 2009!"<br /><br />"At this point, I’m going to give you a couple of real good pointers, which should help you as we go through this final level. Start with the fewest people possible in on it, which would actually be zero and no hoax (MJ really died); and then work backwards from that point—changing nothing from the no hoax scenario, except what is NEEDED to be changed in order to accomplish the hoax. I already gave you an example with the ambulance: if MJ really died, then the ambulance came to Carolwood and went to UCLA on June 25, 2009. Don’t change that for the hoax, unless there is a need for it to happen on a different day."<br /><br />Following that pointer, what do we need to change for the hoax? Only that MJ didn't die - ambulance still came to Carolwood and still went to UCLA on 25th June 2009.<br /><br />Any 'props' needed, can have been produced anywhere, anytime, in advance, and brought out at the appropriate time.<br /><br />Am I over-simplifying?<br /><br /><br />
<br />No I don't think you are over simplifying at all. I think a lot of people are over complicating and bringing up things that have already been debunked in the previous level. <br /><br />I try to keep in mind that there is a lot of information on this forum and it can be a lot to process, but sometimes I get frustrated when it seems that we can't make any progress or move forward as a collective because there are some that are going in circles with concepts that have been agreed upon by most or stated by TS (somewhat cryptically) as being debunked. I would like to take this opportunity to request, with love of course, that those who havent read the previous levels go back and read them first. It should help diffuse some of the confusion that seems to be going on.
<br />@Bec: Strangely enough there weren't many 'fans" outside Carolwood in the Ambulance film!<br />Just a few people who could be very well all involved in it!<br />
<br /><br />Indeed. However, that means that the stalker fans and their presence anywhere it has occurred or been documented would need to be a hoax as well. Is that possible? Sure. What's the purpose? I don't know. Does that purpose (benefit) outweigh the elaborate efforts it would require? TBD.<br /><br />Again, as curls quoted: <br />
"At this point, I’m going to give you a couple of real good pointers, which should help you as we go through this final level. Start with the fewest people possible in on it, which would actually be zero and no hoax (MJ really died); and then work backwards from that point—changing nothing from the no hoax scenario, except what is NEEDED to be changed in order to accomplish the hoax. I already gave you an example with the ambulance: if MJ really died, then the ambulance came to Carolwood and went to UCLA on June 25, 2009. Don’t change that for the hoax, unless there is a need for it to happen on a different day."
<br /><br />What's the need (purpose/benefit)?<br /><br />One purpose/benefit would be a closed set.<br /><br />However we have already determined that the 911 call is fake, and the purpose/benefit of that is to keep it off the police scanners (which works as a public broadcast system for all things roused by police scanners: other cops, paps, public who like to gawk, etc), as well as satisfying the legality aspect. Many purposes for the 911 call to be staged as opposed to real, and it allows for a more or less closed set anyway.<br /><br />We also have the tour bus, and the tourist's video that parallels the HT video, and shows the same events. If this was filmed on a different day, ALL those people in that bus would have to be actors in on the hoax (or at least in on the production, and when the "news" hit the airwaves, they would have to be in on it else they would be able to attest that these events DID NOT HAPPEN on 6/25/09).<br /><br />So in order for the ambulance footage to be shot on a different day, the stalker fans would have to be hoaxed, the tour bus occupants would have to be in on it, and the day after fan video would have to match the "day of" video nearly exactly. That's very elaborate as compared to simply keeping the "911 call" off the police scanners by staging it, and allowing the few peeps who happened to be around, to watch the show. It was a good show, and anyone watching it would not instantly KNOW that it was fake.<br /><br />If the ambulance really did arrive at and then subsequently leave Carrolwood on 6/25/09 and drive to UCLA, it allows the hoax to proceed at a minimum of people in on it, as compared to other possible scenarios.<br /><br />We are at a loss to offer a possible purpose or benefit to filming on a different day, and all scenarios offered for filming on a different day point to a great deal of more people needing to be in on it, which complicates matters. So in conclusion, it seems that there is no benefit for a different day of filming, and only a great deal of difficulty. This leads me to conclude that the ambulance footage was indeed shot on location on 6/25/09, in live time.
Pictures = false (pictures can be manipulated)<br /><br />Video = false (videos can be manipulated)<br /><br />People = marginal ( first hand accounts can vary & subject to bias )<br /><br />
<br /><br />Possible Fact Finding:<br /><br />1) Police blotters (has the LAFD/ BHPD actual activity records for that day been checked)<br /><br />2) Starlight tours (has anyone spoke to the company or any verified occupants on the tour bus that day)<br /><br />3) Property (grounds keepers, trash collectors, neighbors... anyone who frequented the area of the property with an unbias opinion)<br /><br /><br /><br />....there has to be a more concrete way to get information. :?<br /><br /> Information that isn't subject to manipulation or hearsay. :geek:<br />
<br />You know Bec...I said from the beginning that this was all a movie and everyone jumped all over me for it!!<br />It would be insensitive of Michael because of the fans to believe he's dead. He'd never do that! <br />Now, these past months that's what you think and it's all okay?<br />I've been trying to prove it must be a sting, because of all the posts on here saying it is, and changing my mind set from<br />it being just a movie!!<br />Honestly, I try to think for myself, and I get picked on for it. Now, others say what I thought for myself and it's all fine.<br />About Michael's finances, I was really just repeating what we've been told. As in every single thing we KNOW about Michael!<br />ALL we know about him is JUST want he's let us know, and that was ONE.<br />I never believed that, if you can go back into my 1300 posts, I said, how could he be bankrupt owning that hotel...and who knows how much more?<br />I always try not to pick just one single reason for this hoax, because I know someone will tear me up for it...occasionally I finally post my thoughts on a decision, and sure enough...NO it can't be right.<br />I'm not trying to be THE right one, because we know, things you thought were right, and others don't will one day be the very thought<br />that now is the one to believe.<br />I appreciate all your work and thoughts Bec...;)<br />
<br /><br />You put your opinion dear no matter what it is, your opinion maybe as valuable as the next person.. Do what you feel is right.. I know how you feel, people jump on me too. The question is are these people right?? No one is right no one knows what happened unless MJ comes out and tells us himself.. So fordtocarr go girl!!!!
When talking of the stalker fans, we would be mostly talking about Samantha and the 'followers' who morphed into TINI. Ever since I watched David Gest's doco, I have been entertaining the idea that these girls could also be employed for hoax purposes. Could it be possible that the followers are a great big fabrication depicting extreme intrusion created especially for the hoax? The end shot of the grieving fans outside UCLA on the 25th just happened to be the stalker/follower fans. Coincidence? TS's picture at the start of this thread shows 3 puzzle pieces out of place.....there are 3 distinct personas displayed by MJ in TII. We also have This is it , This Is Also It , and This Is Not It. I realize I am rambling here. Forgive me. It is 4 in the morning in Australia and I'm so tired. It makes sense to me that everything that could be prepared in advance would be. This would free up going 'live' with the 'death' and make things as simple as possible. I feel pretty sure that some are playing multiple roles in this production as well, and @MJonmind.....I enjoyed your theory so much and if that was the case, well that would just be the bomb. Seems Murray is not so much MJ's personal physician but more of his personal MaJician....well....he did make him disappear.
the simplicity of doing everything as real as possible
<br /><br />SIMPLICITY - what a wonderful word bow/<br />..................<br />Too bad I've lost the ability to think is simple terms now /pull hair/ Everything has to be huge/mysterious/complicated :shock:<br /><br />And I feel so stupid because I am the only one who doesn't know why we have to believe that infamous ambulance photo was staged in advance :'(<br />
<br /><br />Ginafelicia, please just keep an opened mind.. I have been reading your several post, and this is the last one that broke the camel's back.. Please stop whinning, and just put your head together and think.. I know it is hard, it is hard for me too, I am trying hard to find what happened that day, but I do not whine and be negative. I do not want to harp on you, you are an intelligent young woman you can do it girl, you can do anything you put your mind to.. MJ did it, so can we.. <br />
<br /><br />You know I really hate it when people tell me what to do.<br />If I want to whine I'll whine.<br />If I want to scream I'll scream.<br />If I want to be stupid I will be stupid.<br />Just let me be.<br />I can't live up to the standards OTHER try to impose me to live up at.<br />Like Bec said, just let me believe what I want to believe. Just let me go through this hoax in my own way.<br />I always try to be polite and not respond, but I just can't take it anymore.<br />When someone has logical arguments I like to listen and learn.<br />But when I'm just told things like I am a puppet who can be moved around where OTHERS want, like I can't think for myself - it's too much.<br />And if I want to cry, I'll cry. Officially Mike is missing, this is giving me reasons enough to cry.<br />End of it.<br /><br />[size=18pt]And for your information I'm keeping a VERY OPEN MIND, I'm sorry you and others can't notice that.[/size]<br />And I don't need OTHERS to tell me what I am or what I am not. Ask my husband <br />
<br /><br />Gina....I HEAR YOU!!<br />I've wanted to post to you awhile... I think you should feel just how you feel. It is our feelings about Michael that brought us here to begin with.<br />Also, some of us just get our thoughts rejected and shoved about anyhow. You are not alone in this. Most tend to just leave. You and I stay, because of how we feel about Michael.<br />We are not here to JUST try to be the one to figure this out..but we want to be with others believing that Michael is alive. We want to KNOW and understand, but not necessarily be told WHAT so and so believe is what we should be believing even though it don't make sense to us.<br />Some of us, in the end, will just believe on pure FAITH. A faith that we have in Michael, and that he's alive.<br />Keep your faith. Keep believing. You are not alone.♥<br />
<br /> Ginafelicia, you are absolutely rght you can whine anytime you want and cry anytime you want, I am just trying to help you.. I am sorry if you took it bad. Know if you want to do all of that you can go the the whinning thread, there is a special thread for that. I simply said to try to open your mind in what others are saying, I did not say that your were stupid, and this was never said from me to you. I never, ever say that to another human being.. I am courteous, and kind to people. You are entitled to your own opinion, If I told you to keep an open mind it is because you are going hysterical, just reread your posts. I promise you I will never redirect anything towards you again, I do love everyone in this forum. bless you..
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)) 21=7+7+7
)) 777<br /> 71<br />_____<br />=2009[/size]<br /><br /><br />[size=12pt]And 71 = 7+1 = 8 ---)) again ELVIS number !!! [/size] elvis_/<br /><br />
<br /><br />Possible Fact Finding:<br /><br />1) Police blotters (has the LAFD/ BHPD actual activity records for that day been checked)<br /><br />2) Starlight tours (has anyone spoke to the company or any verified occupants on the tour bus that day)<br /><br />3) Property (grounds keepers, trash collectors, neighbors... anyone who frequented the area of the property with an unbias opinion)<br /><br /><br /><br />....there has to be a more concrete way to get information. :?<br /><br /> Information that isn't subject to manipulation or hearsay. :geek:<br />