<br />Let's start of the beginning....for the general public, that means June 25th. Working backwards as TS suggests, what sort of people/companies would have to be involved for this to appear as a real news story? For now, put aside the reasons...concentrate on the how it was done....what did we see/when: <br />-Media .....including TV, Radio, Newspapers/magazines, (the traditional stuff)<br />-Media....including YouTube videos, "fan made" videos, Wiki info, various online magazines like LipStick Alley etc.,(non traditional)<br />-Props for realism (easy to obtain in Hollywood)<br />-actors (also easy to obtain in Hollywood)<br />-a good CG/special effects company (set in motion with the Dome Project as to not raise suspicion perhaps) <br /><br />One thing I have tried to find out, but am having trouble with is exactly what companies are owned by Michael or a subsidiary of his or someone close to Michael that would help with this: <br />-Hollywood TV<br />-TMZ<br />-NPG <br />-HLN (CNN) etc.......after the allegations, did Michael set out to create the world's largest set-up? To do that he would need the help of media.....by owning it, literally. I know what the internet says as far as ownership for some of these examples, however, from where I sit, it's all hearsay. Who truly owns something probably takes a little more digging than I can do. So if working backwards, as TS suggests, let's take a look at things starting with who broke the story first:<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />I like the idea of finding out what Michael owns and has a hand in. It does kinda feel like we are speculating a lot and not much can be factually backed up because often it all depends on how different people interprete different things. Hhhmmmmmm confused/ /scream/
There are several theories, there are several possibilities. The question is, how are we going to eliminate the ones which are not possible? How are we going to know which one is not a possibility? We keep on writing what could be done and how could be done on the 25th but where is the final destination? Can we debunk each other's theories? Do we have enough information to debunk some of the theories? Are we missing something important? There're too many questions in my mind and I'm a little bit confused about where we are going with these discussion topics. <br /><br />My poor english doesn't allow me to understand what TS is asking us to do and how he is asking us to do. But I know that he would never ask it from us if he thought that we couldn't make it. I'm just lost and confused. I'm reading all of your amazing posts tho. And there're amazing theories. We should keep on digging! (I think lol) <br /><br /><br /><br />
[size=14pt]<br />This is why I question the video footage, real or fake?:[/size]<br /><br /><br /><br />Who got the "magic" ambulance picture? (EVENSTAD)<br /><br />Who got the *W911 call info on the Firetruck monitor? (EVENSTAD)<br /><br />Who got the video footage following the ambulance to UCLA? (EVENSTAD)<br /><br /><br />[size=14pt]
on 1321143486:
<br />The point of using what he owns rather than the equipment or vehicles of LAFD is that Michael would not want to tie up public resources in the event of a genuine emergency. Using his own resources as much as possible makes the hoax more controllable.
<br /><br /><br />So.....<br /><br />1) 911 call was planned<br />2) ambulance picture was planned<br /><br />3) ambulance/firetruck response was_________? :roll:<br />4) ambulance video to UCLA was________? :roll:<br /><br /><br />
on 1321132243:
<br /><br />If the ambulance showed up on 6/25 @ Carolwood; was the ambulance on a "legitimate" call or "for hire" call? <br /><br /><br />Richard Senneff (Paramedic) - (legitimate EMS or "hired" EMS?)<br /><br />Martin Blount (Paramedic) - (legitimate EMS or "hired" EMS?)<br /><br />plus (*according to court testimony; 2-3 firemen who helped to carry the body from the house)(legitimate or "hired"?)<br /><br /><br />The ambulance and the 911 call go hand & hand. <br /><br /><br /><br />Fake 911 call--->fake ambulance response<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />*W911....The purpose for having the firetruck parked infront of the house (note: California E911 calls are generally responded to by both Fire and EMS services)
Didn't Michael have his own ambulance at Neverland in the event of there being an emergency? I GUESS he would have used his own on June 25th 2009 so as not to use valuable public resources for the hoax.<br /><br />I want to go back to June 24th when Michael last attended the rehersals. According to Kenny he was really excited about the ILLUSION on the following day. For an Illusion to take place there is usually a double involved. There would have been a double to make The Dirty Diana Illusion work- one minute MJ is in the bed with DD, the next he is on the Cherry picker high above the audience. Well, this was probably a mirror image for the Illusion on a grander scale at 100 Carolwood Drive. Somebody was placed in the ambulance. We thought it was Michael, a double or a dummy. But who was driving the ambulance? Perhaps it was MJ in disguise? Have we payed any attention to the driver or in fact to the paramedics? CM points out in the documentary that MJ loved to escape hidden in a vehicle where there was a huge chance of him being discovered by the fans hanging around his house....<br /><br />I also recal seeing a scene of the bodyguards shaking hands after the ambulance drove away from Carolwood Drive- almost as if to say "We pulled it off". Problem is I cannot reacll where I saw that footage. Perhaps someone else can recall where footage of this incident can be found?<br /><br />Titania
Why own it (firetruck/ambulance) when he can just borrow it?<br /><br /><br />http://lafd.org/public-relations<br /><br />The Los Angeles Fire Department welcomes those persons interested in collaboration with the department in a variety of areas. Some of the ways in which we collaborate with the public include:<br /><br /> Motion Picture and Television Licensing<br /><br /> Paramedic Certification Ride-Alongs<br /><br /> VIP Ride-Alongs<br /><br /> School Visits & Presentations<br /><br /> Media Events<br /><br /> Civic Activities<br /><br /> City/Official Business<br /><br /><br /><br />http://lafd.org/charitable-partners<br /><br />The Los Angeles Fire Department is supported by several non-profit public benefit and foundation organizations. These 501 (c) (3) NPOs provide specific, needed support to the Los Angeles Fire Department. The services they provide fall outside of the scope of the department and/or the City of Los Angeles' operational budget. <br /><br />Both organizations have been fully vetted and operate under relevant formal Agreements, including trademark and rights Agreements. We invite you to visit these organizations to learn more about them, and if possible, to support them in their important and valuable missions. <br /><br />
<br />There are several theories, there are several possibilities. The question is, how are we going to eliminate the ones which are not possible? How are we going to know which one is not a possibility? We keep on writing what could be done and how could be done on the 25th but where is the final destination? Can we debunk each other's theories? Do we have enough information to debunk some of the theories? Are we missing something important? There're too many questions in my mind and I'm a little bit confused about where we are going with these discussion topics. <br /><br />My poor english doesn't allow me to understand what TS is asking us to do and how he is asking us to do. But I know that he would never ask it from us if he thought that we couldn't make it. I'm just lost and confused. I'm reading all of your amazing posts tho. And there're amazing theories. We should keep on digging! (I think lol) <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Purelove, you say your poor english, I speak english all the time and I have a hard time understanding lol.. ( figure of speech) do not worry I have read all your posts and your english is amazing and you make alot of sense..
<br />There are several theories, there are several possibilities. The question is, how are we going to eliminate the ones which are not possible? How are we going to know which one is not a possibility? We keep on writing what could be done and how could be done on the 25th but where is the final destination? Can we debunk each other's theories? Do we have enough information to debunk some of the theories? Are we missing something important? There're too many questions in my mind and I'm a little bit confused about where we are going with these discussion topics. <br /><br />My poor english doesn't allow me to understand what TS is asking us to do and how he is asking us to do. But I know that he would never ask it from us if he thought that we couldn't make it. I'm just lost and confused. I'm reading all of your amazing posts tho. And there're amazing theories. We should keep on digging! (I think lol) <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Purelove, you say your poor english, I speak english all the time and I have a hard time understanding lol.. ( figure of speech) do not worry I have read all your posts and your english is amazing and you make alot of sense..<br />
<br /><br /> lolol/<br /><br />It's good news to hear that I'm not the only one who is having a hard time understanding TS/Front's posts. <br /><br />And thank you. bearhug
Just wondering, we know the tour bus saw the ambulance leaving Carolwood, unless they are actors too and the map lady too, but did anyone see the ambulance go into Carolwood??
<br /><br />I also recal seeing a scene of the bodyguards shaking hands after the ambulance drove away from Carolwood Drive- almost as if to say "We pulled it off". Problem is I cannot reacll where I saw that footage. Perhaps someone else can recall where footage of this incident can be found?<br /><br />Titania<br />
<br /><br />We see that in Conrad's docu last night. That is suspicious.
The photo on the ambulance i think that it was " the other day", in the videos of the ambulance coming out of the house and when employees leave there are details, for example the white car or gray that can be seen in the videos<br /> /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />In the video of Ben we see the white car<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />SAME video the white car is gone.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Employees leave<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
Snoopy, good points. <br /><br />So we are back to 2009 again. Hamster wheel everybody? This is gonna be a long post again I'm afraid. Long two cents. <br />I am not saying that I firmly believe in this or that part of the road, however I am still supporter of a combination of all three major theories: hoax + sting + murder (attempt) - but not all of this happening in the same time frame. (Movie is not a theory IMO but a means of execution therefore I take this as being fundamental.) <br /><br />We have to care about 2 timelines (timeline of events and timeline of event publications - unveiling of how it happened) and about whether the sceneries happened in real life or in film only (existing footage is no proof that an event happened. Footage is only proof that a filming and editing process was executed). Last but not least there's the question whether the sceneries did match with the date of June 25 or whether they happened on "another day".<br /> <br /> Timeline of events as scripted:<br /> In a "realistic" optical and "proof" drama, we were provided footage of an ambulance at Carolwood even from two perspectives: Hollywood TV cut and edited video:<br /> <br /> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU<br /> <br /> and the TMZ "tour bus tourist" video:<br /> http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_jtxt04mw<br /> <br /> plus the "proof of" photo Ben highlighted (that was probably prepared together with the ambulance photo the other day? Ben was far too close to the ambulance to create the shown image),<br /> <br /> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4<br /> <br /> an ambulance driving to UCLA (Ben's interview footage, the ride being filmed from inside a dark Cadillac Escalade, at 2:04.) <br /> <br /> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx4ew1zmIj0<br /> <br /> and of an ambulance allegedly "delivering Michael" to UCLA (X17 online photos)<br /> http://www.x17online.com/celebrities/michael_jackson/michael_jackson_passes_away_at_age_50-06252009.php.<br /> <br /> That was an impressive truck load of images to digest, right? <br /> That's one reason why the information was cut into pieces and published one after another. Too much food at a time does not lead to healthy digestion.<br /> The other reason was keeping the public hooked, repeating the story around the basic anchor of June 25 "sudden death shock" and commencing from that anchor to develop different versions, contradictions, individual perspectives, opinions, beliefs and stories, not to mention third party interviews, falsifications, blatant nonsense etc.<br /> <br /> <br /> Timeline of publications of footage:<br /> So the story was told in pieces, in many interruptions of the storyline and in retrospect like a good novel should do going back and forth to stay interesting and make curious (correct me pls if I got this timeline wrong):<br /> June 25, 2009 - initial launch of story package basic elements<br /> - ambulance at Carolwood<br /> - crowds in front of UCLA<br /> - statement of Jermaine<br /> - sheriff chopper take-off (filmed by helicopter)<br /> - sheriff chopper landing at coroner (filmed by helicopter and photographed from ground).<br /> <br /> Later TMZ came along with the ambulance tourist bus video.<br /> <br /> At about the same time those X17-online photos popped up.<br /> <br /> Several weeks later, the German RTL garage video was "leaked".<br /> <br /> Then we had the Norwegian interview with infamous Ben proving with the photo that he was the "right photo fisher".<br /> <br /> And still later we got the ABC interview with Ben showing footage of "the ride" to UCLA.<br /> <br /> A while later, we had then found the "bodyguards enjoying having finished their job" unveiling.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Question 1:<br /> Did an ambulance and a firetruck arrive and take off at/from Carolwood on June 25, 2009?<br /> We had witnesses stating that the paramedics of firetruck 71 / ambu 71 had an emergency VIP case on June 25, 2009. We listened to some testimonies in court. We listened to the testimonies of the map lady and the tour bus driver. Does that mean an ambulance was really there that day? Was everything being told true or was it just giving individual perception of something that allegedly happened?<br /> <br /> <br /> Alternative a: <br /> no ambulance was in an emergency case at Carolwood. Linda and the tour bus driver and all witnesses talking about an ambulance they have seen have actually seen white elephants instead and are talking paid circus. This is not very likely. You can only produce a million opinions on what happened if something happened so people can build their opinion on something. Hitchcock / Agatha Christie basic principle of drama. <br /> <br /> But ok, let's go for "no ambulance at Carolwood", everything was staged / filmed elsewhere. <br /> We know well how easy it is to rebuild streets - we are at Hollywood, right? - not even reconstruction of a house was needed, only a gate had to be opened and closed with a court on the inside and a street on the outside . Film studio? Yes, could be possible. Propmen can "remake" even the exact cracks in the concrete of a road. L.A. counties are proud to participate in movies. LAFD did participate in movies, courtrooms are for rent etc. No big deal. There were not many folks that day - so the staff bill would not be expensive. <br /> <br /> But so much effort to rebuild a street for a sequence of only 2:29 minutes? Maybe it was important enough as this was the key basic and fundamental sequence to build all other construction upon. This had to be perfect.<br /> <br /> <br /> Alternative b: <br /> yes, a real ambulance was at Carolwood.<br /> Carolwood was obviously blocked from the north by some white cars as could be seen in the videos (see attachment). In the south, Ben was obviously jamming the road (he took the "proof photo") before the blue car drove in from Sunset. So they could film whatever they wanted without having too many unwelcome cars or folks interfere with the takes. Linda seemed quite (really) upset being on her phone when the tour bus stopped.<br /> <br /> There were at least two takes because the shadows differ - see attachments: Hollywood TV movie shows the firetruck in full sunshine, the starbus tourist video shows the firetruck in the shadow. We've discussed that early in 2009. It can be seen also in the "proof" photo that the shadows differ compared to the Hollywood TV video.<br /> <br /> The argument that there was only one take of the ambulance backing out and that the ambulance photo had therefore to be prepared in advance is only partially correct IMO. We have footage with different content and a photo prepared in advance. No strict dependency but two separate production steps to be on the safe side. <br /> I took into consideration that the impression of different shadows may be due to different perspectives and standpoints: TMZ video cameraperson being in the shadow, Hollywood TV camerapersons operating in brighter sunlight. Usually the lens will close and will make an image darker and not brighter when being in the sunlight and vice versa. IMO both videos were edited to achieve the contrary effect or both cameras were set to manual lens adjustment which would be unlikely for a tourist's camcorder or mobile cam on the bus.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Question 2:<br /> Was an ambulance on the road and arriving at UCLA?<br /> There is footage of this, too. <br /> Ben's footage showed an ambulance driving down the wrong street to UCLA, filming the caravane from inside a dark Cadillac Escalade of the same type as Michael's fleet. We found a dark Escalade parking in front of the NPG headquarter once, but on June 25 and starting from Carolwood, Ben drove an older blue and white Escalade if my eyes did not trick me - see starbus tourist video. So the ride to UCLA may have been filmed "the other day".<br /> Why would the caravane take the wrong street anyway if they were trying to save a life? They drove crowded Westwood Blvd northbound, however UCLA emergency entrance is located at Charles E Young Drive which is served by Gayley Ave. Instead of going directly to the emergency entrance, the caravane drove across Westwood Plaza and allegedly (not published) turned left into a narrow street at the crossroad of Westwood / Charles E Young where we find UCLA Brain Research Institute and UCLA Police Station (currently a construction site on Google maps).<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> X17 online showed pictures from the arrival of the ambulance and several footage "splints" of the bodyguards and the family being present at UCLA were published as well. In addition we have Jermaine's press conference at UCLA. <br /> <br /> We were given in addition different takes of the heli sequences afterwards at a moment when the media hectically tried to participate of the "cake" and desperately cut together what did not belong together. By then, the avalanche had already taken pace and it was all unstoppable.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Question 3:<br /> Did all the above mentioned footage originate from June 25, 2009?<br /> As to the chopper footage, we can clearly say that the media cut together what they liked and had in their archives no matter from which date. This was not completely one-source-only material.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Question 4:<br /> Did all the chapters of the story actually happen on June 25, 2009 as published?<br /> We cannot say that with absolute certainty as all material was distributed by the media and had multiple second-hand sources - even if we assume that the one and only first-hand source was Ben getting a leg up as to image and film material. It might have been filmed on "another day" and distributed on June 25.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Question 5:<br /> If we cannot answer question 4 with certainty, would it at least make sense that the ambulance was at Carolwood and UCLA on June 25?<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Question 6:<br /> This brings us to the question why would there be any need for an ambulance at Carolwood and UCLA on June 25. Strange question? No. We as spectators were looking from the outside and were shocked by the unexpected. Maybe it is helpful to put ourselves into director's shoes and look from the inside, soberly, being CEO and COO in personal union.<br /> <br /> A CEO will only spend $$$ on furniture if the COO convinces him that the expenses are required to achieve the given objectives and goals, will support the envisaged strategies and provide data for the measurements of desired achievements.<br /> <br /> Potential objectives of executing a death hoax could be (we discussed most of them):<br /> - disappear (illusion)<br /> - escape<br /> - help myself<br /> - help another<br /> - save the world<br /> - vendetta / justice<br /> - clear my name<br /> - live a John Doe's normal life<br /> - take a sabbatical for the kids / family<br /> - take a sabbatical for the love of my life<br /> - take a sabbatical for myself<br /> - death threat<br /> - sting<br /> - change profession<br /> - change life<br /> - AIR (art is resistance)<br /> - ARG (alternate reality game)<br /> - entertainment in the form of popular edutainment - most effective: make others edutain themselves<br /> - any other personal / important third party / combination of the above motivations, including economical, political, religious, ethical, moral and other reasons.<br /> .....<br /> The overall combination of objectives will lead to a win-win-situation or else they are of no substantial value and effect.<br /> <br /> <br /> Potential goals of executing a disappearance by "giving a death" at a given location (Carolwood / UCLA) could be (instead of chosing the transcontinental plane crash with no return):<br /> - profit from knowledge about the specific location (and area / region / people / society details)<br /> - draw attention to that specific location / make it a "house of death"<br /> - profit from an attention this specific location already has<br /> - profit from a reputation / status this specific location already has<br /> - profit from features / infrastructure this specific location already has<br /> - get out of the house <br /> - get into the house<br /> - get into the hospital<br /> - get out of the hospital<br /> - concentrate attention to the main entrance / sneak out of the back door<br /> - concentrate attention to the house / take off elsewhere<br /> - have a free chopper ride from the top of UCLA, fly over richer L.A. and do what others usually do to me<br /> - frame them monsters of the past at exactly the same location they framed me<br /> - pretend I am not doing well at a specific location yet I am a bundle of joy at another one - setting the stages<br /> .....<br /> <br /> Potential pros / cons of having an ambulance and a firetruck "live" as fundamental elements of the disappearance at Carolwood / UCLA (= strategy):<br /> pros<br /> - make the event believable (as much as feasible)<br /> - make the event plausible (logically fitting / credibility)<br /> - make the event dramatically as important as can be (creating emotional high waves)<br /> - create so much drama that the origin is almost forgotten (make a fly an elephant)<br /> .....<br /> <br /> cons<br /> - potential of questioning / leakage as additional characters need additional coordination<br /> - issue with the body<br /> - issue with the ambulance photo<br /> - issue outbalancing protection (e.g. tinted windows) vs. giving enough information.<br /> .....<br /> <br /> Potential data for measurements of project achievements:<br /> - percentage of believers (believing in death) after 0, 1, 7, 30 days - development over the course of time<br /> - percentage of additional turnover / sales (of memorabilia / music / videos) after 0, 1, 7, 30 days - development over the course of time<br /> - number of articles published by the media in 0, 1, 7, 30 days<br /> - number of hoax videos on youtube in a week<br /> - number of days being able to relax in a palm tree's shadow<br /> - number of times I laughed with the kids in a day<br /> - duration of twitter crash<br /> - percentage of good comments vs. bad comments about my life<br /> - number of articles supporting the not-guilty verdict of 2005<br /> ....<br /> <br /> <br /> Question 7:<br /> Would we need the firetruck and the ambulance to attract the media (in case we wanted to nail them)?<br /> Not necessarily. <br /> The paps are there no matter what and the reporters write no matter what they have seen or photographed or filmed or copied and pasted:<br /> <br /> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVlr8WIxhAE&feature=related<br /> <br /> <br /> The firetruck and the ambulance probably have been there at Carolwood resp. UCLA "in real" but NOT for the media (first source was limited to Ben resp. TMZ anyway) but for the general public. <br /> The appearance of the vehicles had vital importance for creating the first credibility, plausibility, belief of death and thus the emotional distress and status of shock. In addition, they are memorable symbols of danger and rescue, the colour red is the colour of life, love and blood (family). We would have missed much if they wouldn't have been integrative part of the set.<br /> This dramatic scenery initialized the following chaos fog of confusion, disbelief, reassurance and coloured opinion sharing that was intended.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Add.:<br /> In order to produce a death hoax, there is NO ambulance required per se. <br /> It is sufficient to spread rumours, e.g. on Christmas 2008:<br /> http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/13492/789325?cpt=8&title=truveo_full_feed&wpid=2541<br /><br /> <br /> <br /> And these are giving some of the noticable differences of shadows at the pylons and the firetruck that indicate to me that there might have been two or more takes of the ambu video (the tour bus being too far to the left in the Hollywood video in addition):<br />
Okay….this is what I think happened…ambulance scenario of events<br /><br />All events took place on 6/25, all “props“- the fire truck, ambulance, it’s personnel were “leased” <br />and set up in advance (see my post #154 for explanation). ...although I suspect there was a “test” run before this date. :?<br /><br /><br />1) W911 call was planned (call time was “pre-arranged” with BHPD/LAFD-so were the “props“)<br /> *chain of events triggered with call to Michael Amir @ 12:18 (the person with all of Michaels contacts)<br /> <br />2) Ambulance picture was planned (*Evenstad/NPG)<br /> *I also personally believe Evenstad/NPG generated the “death” picture and “autopsy” picture.<br /><br />3) W911 call info captured on the Fire truck monitor was planned (Evenstad/NPG) <br /> *Showed “proof” of date & time of 6/25 12:21 p.m. ( sets numerology )<br /><br />4) Video footage of ambulance going to UCLA was planned (Evenstad/NPG)<br /> - added bonus, Starline tours bus cruises through the shoot for dramatic effect<br /> as well as to give alternate picture/video coverage (planned)(Evenstad/NPG/TMZ)<br /> which is strategically leaked to other sources.<br /><br />5) Video/Picture footage of gurney going into Emergency room was planned (Evenstad/NPG)<br /> <br /><br />
by this time, major media outlets are on scene.<br /><br /><br /><br />okay, (buzz) that's my final answer! (for now) .<br /><br />...I'm going to Disneyland, ...................whew, I'm tired
Talking about scenarios Grace,..The comparison has nothing to do with the subject, but not presented to the world the "conquest" of the Green Square in Tripoli and everything was a scenario created and filmed in Qatar with actors including?, and still today there are people who do not know this....And was presented as the absolute truth
@Grace, the difference in "shadow" is just the different resolution on the video. Look at the shadows on the street, they are identical. Take a video in direct sunlight and take it from different angles. The direct sun will light the same surface differently, especially in dappled shade (as this is). Additionally, the videos are taken from different directions. Shooting from the west facing east will result in a different lighting then shooting from the east facing west, even at or ~ noon in June. And lastly, Ben's video was shot as a result of a wildly swinging camera when capturing the firetruck. The lens would be registering super bright light/shade/super bright/shade rapidly and the lens can't keep up with that speed of sudden light level fluctuation. The exposure is too high when that screenshot was taken, resulting in the much brighter appearance of the firetruck then in the tourist video image.<br /><br />The cones appear to be placed differently but it's just perspective. You cannot see the third cone in the tourist video shot because it is right next to the curb and the firetruck is blocking the view. (Same with the car in paula-c's screenshots.)<br /><br />Also, Grace, what is your theory? Would you summarize your information and draw a conclusion from it? I'm curious what you conclude from all of that.<br /><br />(edited cuz I realized when i reread the italics looked snotty and that's not how I intended it to be read)
<br /> The point of using what he owns rather than the equiptment or vehicles of LAFD is that Michael would not want to tie up public resources in the event of a genuine emergency. Using his own resources as much as possible makes the hoax more controllable.<br /> <br />
<br /><br />It's not unusual nor against the law. Real emergency vehicles are used in the course of movie/TV filming. Not to mention real hospitals. This would not be a problem.<br /><br />
Jack Webb has been blazing new trails in dramatic programs for more than 20 years. He films "Emergency!" with the full cooperation and assistance of the Los Angeles County Fire Department as well as the County Department of Hospitals.<br /><br />Adding a decidedly realistic touch, authentic fire-fighting equipment has been loaned to the production company. Should any of it be needed in an actual crisis, a "hot line" links fire department headquarters to the sound stage. One ring on that instrument, appropriately painted fire engine red, and film production becomes secondary to the needs of the community.
I don't think it matters if the ambulance were owned by MJ or not. The information that we have supports that the easiest, most streamlined, lowest risk method for Day Zero 6/25/09 is to have a real ambulance arrive and depart Carrolwood that day, and have it be filmed in live time, as it was occurring, in one take... and have that ambulance go to UCLA.<br /><br />Two takes is HUGELY risky... and for what benefit? The control that you would gain by having 2 takes to get it right is immediately outweighed by having someone witness the 2 takes that isn't supposed to. As soon as it happens, you risk having witnesses. What element would be so necessary that it would be worth the risk of immediate failure through uncontrolled exposure?
If Ben's video is fake then so is the tourist video. If the tourist video is fake then all the people in the tour bus are fake too (because they are on a closed set acting a part). That's ~12-15 people. You also have to add the people on the street (~8-10), the Fireman with the truck (1), the map lady (1), and the random woman seen walking out of Carrolwood (still a mystery person). This scenario adds 22-27 actors to the hoax. We are still trying to keep the number of people who have direct knowledge of the hoax to a minimum, so are we willing to add potentially almost 30 "extra" type people to that roster?<br /><br />What I'm gathering from those who support this theory is that the purpose of faking the video (with 2 takes or on a closed set) is control so as to convince the world of a medical emergency at MJ's house without it being detected as being a hoax. I don't support this scenario because the risks outweigh the benefits. I think the point that everyone can agree on is the more people who know, the more risk for potential leaks or slip ups. Someone could squeal and ruin it all, even with non-disclosure agreements. Even though MJ could sue for breaking that agreement, he can never get back a chance like this. The secret is truly priceless.
<br />[size=14pt]<br />This is why I question the video footage, real or fake?:[/size]<br /><br /><br /><br />Who got the "magic" ambulance picture? (EVENSTAD)<br /><br />Who got the *W911 call info on the Firetruck monitor? (EVENSTAD)<br /><br />Who got the video footage following the ambulance to UCLA? (EVENSTAD)<br /><br /><br />[size=14pt]
on 1321143486:
<br />The point of using what he owns rather than the equipment or vehicles of LAFD is that Michael would not want to tie up public resources in the event of a genuine emergency. Using his own resources as much as possible makes the hoax more controllable.
<br /><br /><br />So.....<br /><br />1) 911 call was planned<br />2) ambulance picture was planned<br /><br />3) ambulance/firetruck response was_________? :roll:<br />4) ambulance video to UCLA was________? :roll:<br /><br /><br />
on 1321132243:
<br /><br />If the ambulance showed up on 6/25 @ Carolwood; was the ambulance on a "legitimate" call or "for hire" call? <br /><br /><br />Richard Senneff (Paramedic) - (legitimate EMS or "hired" EMS?)<br /><br />Martin Blount (Paramedic) - (legitimate EMS or "hired" EMS?)<br /><br />plus (*according to court testimony; 2-3 firemen who helped to carry the body from the house)(legitimate or "hired"?)<br /><br /><br />The ambulance and the 911 call go hand & hand. <br /><br /><br /><br />Fake 911 call--->fake ambulance response<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />*W911....The purpose for having the firetruck parked infront of the house (note: California E911 calls are generally responded to by both Fire and EMS services)<br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />This is EXACTLY what I was questioning earlier!<br />OH MY GOD! afraid/<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> bounce/ Eeee, guys, keep the observations comin'!! This is what I'm talking about, seeing the FACT behind the media fiction!<br />
Perhaps I should clarify what I mean by "fake" video footage. I'm not sure what others are referring to or if they have the same definition. <br /><br /><br />I do not think this "ambulance drama" was played out more than once. It was a "one take" deal to be sure. <br /><br />When I speak of "fake", I'm referring to his video edits. Evenstad's scene sequences are very "choppy" and erratic; for example when they are following the SUV's through the city streets to UCLA, then the jump to different scene cuts while sitting at Carolwood etc...It gives the impression it's not one continuous segment (which can be interpreted as being filmed on different days at different times). It appears "pieced together" like the ambulance picture.<br /><br />Maybe that was the intent, I don't know :?<br /><br />As for the dress "rehearsal", I'd be willing to bet someone was monitoring when those Starline tours cruised by, and when or how often the "Map Lady" was present. They probably went on a goose chase in the SUV's just to see who in the paps would give pursuit and how well they were able to follow (sans Michael of course). <br /><br />No doubt a few trips were made to UCLA medical to time how long it would take and what the "lay of the land was". (Though I'm sure Michael already had intimate knowledge since his "Hideout" condo from years ago was within the same vicinity)<br /><br />Wasn't there an accident with one of the SUV's in a hospital parking lot ot with a hosptial worker or something like that mentioned before the hoax?<br /><br />Anywho, just wanted to clear that up if anyone wondered what I meant by "fake" :?
Snoopy, totally agreed with all the above. I was focusing on the first part of The Scenario, the Ambulance @Carrolwood, which is 2 different one-camera films. The HT video (Ben's) does have an edit in it where the last :03 or so is actually the beginning of the tape for some reason edited into the end, the tourist video is one camera start to finish, no edits, and I was debunking those films being fake (staged on set) or the result of 2 takes.<br /><br />It is possible that the "en-route" footage was filmed earlier or later. It's less then :10 of driving behind an ambulance on the main boulevard so this could be done anytime without rousing suspicion... although it almost certainly necessitates enlisting the services of an emergency vehicle on a second day (it had to be Ambulance 71), so there would have to be a reason why it was decided to film it this way. Those guys really did RUN off to something, presumably vehicles to follow the ambulance, so why not film while they're at it? If they did and something went wrong, and they decided not to use the tape, perhaps that necessitated the use of a second day of filming. But again there would be little risk of rousing suspicion while filming the ambulance just driving down the street. In any case, it still means there was an ambulance 71 that departed Carrolwood on 6/25/09 at ~1:00pm.<br /><br />Off current topic: @Anyone who supports the 2 ambulances theory, i'm confused as to what the point is? Is Michael ambulancing out the side gate to escape while the paps and the (~10 person) "crowd" focus on the ambulance backing out the front? If so, why's he taking an ambulance? Why wouldn't he just hop in the back of one of his trusted entourage's SUV's and split? Why would you need a second ambulance? An SUV is much less conspicuous then an ambulance if you're trying to not attract attention to yourself. I don't understand what question the 2 ambulance theory is attempting to answer, so anyone who can explain further please do.
<br />Snoopy, totally agreed with all the above. I was focusing on the first part of The Scenario, the Ambulance @Carrolwood, which is 2 different one-camera films. The HT video (Ben's) does have an edit in it where the last :03 or so is actually the beginning of the tape for some reason edited into the end, the tourist video is one camera start to finish, no edits, and I was debunking those films being fake (staged on set) or the result of 2 takes.<br /><br />It is possible that the "en-route" footage was filmed earlier or later. It's less then :10 of driving behind an ambulance on the main boulevard so this could be done anytime without rousing suspicion... although it almost certainly necessitates enlisting the services of an emergency vehicle on a second day (it had to be Ambulance 71), so there would have to be a reason why it was decided to film it this way. Those guys really did RUN off to something, presumably vehicles to follow the ambulance, so why not film while they're at it? If they did and something went wrong, and they decided not to use the tape, perhaps that necessitated the use of a second day of filming. But again there would be little risk of rousing suspicion while filming the ambulance just driving down the street. In any case, it still means there was an ambulance 71 that departed Carrolwood on 6/25/09 at ~1:00pm.<br /><br />Off current topic: @Anyone who supports the 2 ambulances theory, i'm confused as to what the point is? Is Michael ambulancing out the side gate to escape while the paps and the (~10 person) "crowd" focus on the ambulance backing out the front? If so, why's he taking an ambulance? Why wouldn't he just hop in the back of one of his trusted entourage's SUV's and split? Why would you need a second ambulance? An SUV is much less conspicuous then an ambulance if you're trying to not attract attention to yourself. I don't understand what question the 2 ambulance theory is attempting to answer, so anyone who can explain further please do.<br />
<br /><br />Bec it is the contrary, an SUV would be more consipicuous. Most of the public knows that celebritiy have black SUV. By having another ambulance, and taking another exit, no one on the road would suspect Michael is in that ambulance. As we all know ambulances have the free of way with the sirens on. That ambulance must have brought Michael to the airport as Jermaine stated.( as a slip up).. Very clever from Michael, no one would suspect anything. They would focus on the ambulance that backed up very slowlyyyyyyyyyyy.
Why not take a police car then?<br /><br />Or hop in the fire truck after everyone raced off after the ambulance?<br /><br />Or one of those undercover police and government cars that are souped up Impalas or Mustangs with the stealth (interior) lights on it. They have right of way too and would attract much less attention then a big box ambulance. Every time the gates opened, they risk one of the "extras" witnessing 2 ambulances inside the gate, then everyone would know there were two departures to watch for. It's hard not to notice an ambulance. They are designed to attract attention for high visibility on the roadway. On the other hand, those undercover police and government cars are inconspicuous and still have emergency lights to stop traffic and move as an emergency vehicle on the road. One could easily be parked in the back garage (that has been depicted in pics on the net since the back gate was discovered in 2009), waiting for MJ to hop in and zip off, undercover of massive ambulance backing out the gate distraction. <br /><br />Why do it the hardest way possible when there's such an easy alternative?
<br />Snoopy, totally agreed with all the above. I was focusing on the first part of The Scenario, the Ambulance @Carrolwood, which is 2 different one-camera films. The HT video (Ben's) does have an edit in it where the last :03 or so is actually the beginning of the tape for some reason edited into the end, the tourist video is one camera start to finish, no edits, and I was debunking those films being fake (staged on set) or the result of 2 takes.<br /><br />It is possible that the "en-route" footage was filmed earlier or later. It's less then :10 of driving behind an ambulance on the main boulevard so this could be done anytime without rousing suspicion... although it almost certainly necessitates enlisting the services of an emergency vehicle on a second day (it had to be Ambulance 71), so there would have to be a reason why it was decided to film it this way. Those guys really did RUN off to something, presumably vehicles to follow the ambulance, so why not film while they're at it? If they did and something went wrong, and they decided not to use the tape, perhaps that necessitated the use of a second day of filming. But again there would be little risk of rousing suspicion while filming the ambulance just driving down the street. In any case, it still means there was an ambulance 71 that departed Carrolwood on 6/25/09 at ~1:00pm.<br /><br />Off current topic: @Anyone who supports the 2 ambulances theory, i'm confused as to what the point is? Is Michael ambulancing out the side gate to escape while the paps and the (~10 person) "crowd" focus on the ambulance backing out the front? If so, why's he taking an ambulance? Why wouldn't he just hop in the back of one of his trusted entourage's SUV's and split? Why would you need a second ambulance? An SUV is much less conspicuous then an ambulance if you're trying to not attract attention to yourself. I don't understand what question the 2 ambulance theory is attempting to answer, so anyone who can explain further please do.<br />
<br /><br />You know I wondered about this myself at one point. (not sure if maybe this is how others see it) :? <br /><br />The 2 ambulance scenario was given serious consideration; but for me, in the end the logistics of it became too difficult. :roll:<br /><br />The reason I thought this might have been possible (again, just speaking for myself here), but when the initial media reports came in, it was said that Michael was being taken to Cedars Sinai. So I thought, what about a "split" ambulance scenario. <br /><br />Two ambulances in route to two different hospitals. A "shell game" of sorts.<br /><br />In "theory" to fool the paps into splitting up and choosing which ambulance to follow. But then you had to have identical ambulances, coordinate departure times and then Evenstad would have to follow the one going out the "secret gate", but then how would he get "the magic picture shot" and all that other stuff, so the scenario was just too complicated to work in my mind.<br /><br />Another multiple ambulance scenario was, what if more than one arrived on scene (it does happen occasionally in the real world) when you get more than one responder, and perhaps the second ambulance would be used as a decoy. But again the logistics....trying to fit a second ambulance through the gate or having it parked on the street as decoration---what would be the point?<br /><br /><br />The one ambulance theory is just the most feasible.<br /><br />
Comments
by this time, major media outlets are on scene.<br /><br /><br /><br />okay, (buzz) that's my final answer! (for now)