/bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ [size=14pt]Aussie!!<br />So much great research and explanations in your posts. I always look for what you write because I know you can explain<br />the truth so well. You have a great young fresh mind <br />You know, the numerology thing hung me up for a time. I'd researched it from a witness stand point, and found that Jah<br />used numbers, as we know, as in 7 days to create, etc. But, my heart told me that numerology was rooted in evil. I knew<br />I'd read it but just couldn't find it...even searching the bible and other materials. I don't know why, old I guess.<br />Anyhow, you pointing out what I had thought I'd read and had researched 25 years ago or so, is great and a relief for me.<br />I hope it don't cause an uproar...people, we all state our own belief on here, one proves this others that, you choose<br />what you feel, really, like the TS stuff...;) <br />We need to stop having to be the right one in everything...say what we feel, express it. Try to explain why. But, stop the condemnations. <br />Thank you Aussie, and LOVE the new pic.[/size]
i know my long complex post came to the same conclusion as posts of others who were only one or two lines long. hope mine didnt annoy anyone. i just felt it was important to explain the reasoning behind why i also came to the conclusion that the numbers were all planned.<br /><br />sorry if my posts were overbearring, but i feel the reason is important. as it gives the argument substance.<br /><br />but agree - in simple words, the numbers were planned by MJ just as everything else in this DH is also planned<br /><br /><br />[size=14pt]EDIT @ FORD[/size] - i knew you would enjoy reading this post. i did try and be as thorough as possible. so that if anyone takes offence they can see its not just a blind statement that it comes from research both from the scriptures and from wiki and other sources.<br /><br />the numerology that exists and is not influenced by demonic sources is the kind that is found in nature and in science... it is simply math. the numerology that we are warned about is the type that people look to, to direct their paths, or that which is associated with predestination as it has spiritistic roots.<br /><br />i too dont want it to cause an uproar. it isnt my intention. but it is an 'angle'. a 'point of view' if you will. so completely valid to be up there with the other opinions, such as 'god is directing this DH' and is 'providing the numbers'.<br /><br />thanks for your kind words.<br /><br />bearhug
<br />To put it simply......Michael has used the numerology throughout this hoax to show us the entire thing WAS planned from LONG ago and the events which have occurred the past 2.5 years (and probably also some prior to the "death date") are not a coincidence.<br />
<br /><br />Maybe.<br /><br />Or maybe he believes the numbers are lucky (aka spiritual) and that's why he used them.<br /><br />We don't know for sure.<br /><br />That's why I said beliefs regarding numerology and debates based on such are irrelevant to the topic. They miss the point completely.<br /><br />This is what the TS skeptics who constantly repeat the true statement, "numerology is a psudoscience" fail to understand. I went over this 2 pages ago.
<br />This is what the TS skeptics who constantly repeat the true statement, "numerology is a psudoscience" fail to understand. I went over this 2 pages ago.<br />
<br /><br />I actually said months ago (I think in the old back thread) that I don't get why people call it "numerology", because that's the wrong word for it. Numerology is about numbers and their meaning, reading stuff into numbers, like astrology. The numbers in this case have nothing to do with that, they are more used as a code. So no idea who started to call that "numerology" as it has nothing to do with that.
<br />This is what the TS skeptics who constantly repeat the true statement, "numerology is a psudoscience" fail to understand. I went over this 2 pages ago.<br />
<br /><br />I actually said months ago (I think in the old back thread) that I don't get why people call it "numerology", because that's the wrong word for it. Numerology is about numbers and their meaning, reading stuff into numbers, like astrology. The numbers in this case have nothing to do with that, they are more used as a code. So no idea who started to call that "numerology" as it has nothing to do with that.<br />
<br />This is what the TS skeptics who constantly repeat the true statement, "numerology is a psudoscience" fail to understand. I went over this 2 pages ago.<br />
<br /><br />I actually said months ago (I think in the old back thread) that I don't get why people call it "numerology", because that's the wrong word for it. Numerology is about numbers and their meaning, reading stuff into numbers, like astrology. The numbers in this case have nothing to do with that, they are more used as a code. So no idea who started to call that "numerology" as it has nothing to do with that.<br />
<br /><br />sarah, not being facetious here, but amen, this is a post of yours that i completely agree on. there you go. we have something in common afterall!<br /><br />i think that is a good thing. sometimes when people have their differences, like you and i have, its good to stop the fued and look at the things agreed upon.<br /><br />i also think numerology is the wrong word and agree it is more of a code. JMO.<br /><br />peace.
she is saying the whys, hows and what the numbers are inspired by is irralevent. even if it is just a code and not spiritisic numerology.<br /><br />the end result is that whatever, whoever, they were inspired by. if given to mj or chosen by mj, they all interlink and add and the end result is what is relevant.<br /><br /><br />which is good. it means we can all have our theories and all be right... because its irrelevant /bravo/
<br />[...]TS to me is NOT one who is manipulating in order to gather a congregation of supporters for some unknown agenda but Front, and not to gather a congregation but to have an audience to be entertain with, not the other way around.
[...]<br />2. And if you think that it's not TS the one who manipulates, but only Front, then how do you explain TS validating Front? I mean in this case they either have to be both manipulators/fakers or neither of them!<br />
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on 1326933738:
<br />I don´t say that Front is a faker but it is clear that he/she is evasive about giving a straight answer= "I AM NOT MJ PEOPLE"
<br /><br />@MissG: Thank you for your answer. <br />In my opinion, you don't have a clear perception of neither Front or TS because from what I see in the 2 quotes above ^^ you contradict yourself.<br /><br />Or maybe it's me who doesn't understand what you want to say. Please help me understand how you see Front.<br />- In your first statement, you clearly said that TS is not a manipulator, but that Front is a manipulator.<br />- In your second statement you said that Front is not a faker [it was me who understood that from your first quote, because to me: manipulator =faker], but just an evasive person who is entertained by making people believe he is MJ<br /><br />So to you, in this given context, being a manipulator does not equal faker?<br />I mean you consider Front to be a manipulator, but not a faker?<br />So, what you say is that Front is authentic [insider or MJ], but he's a manipulator because he doesn't clearly say that he is or that he is NOT MJ?<br />So, by this logic, Front = MJ and/or insider = manipulator = entertained ?<br />
<br /><br />You made me laugh with your explanation <br /><br />Manipulator and faker is not the same. <br />Manipulator is the one who influence, manage, use, or control to one's advantage by artful or indirect means. So in this case that we talk about-->attention, appreciation, ego boost...<br />Fake is a term used to describe or imply that something is not real or that it is false.<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />I think you just might be right! [size=8pt][hi Mike! hope you're having a great time watching YOUR show! ][/size]<br />We finally agree! But I also think that you just don't realize that right now, MissG.<br />
<br /><br />I am of the opinion that non of them is Michael. My perception of Michael is way different as the personalities shown in TS or Front or Back. I can only make a profile of Michael from what i have seen and heard from his mouth and the opinions of people near him. so by that rule, not TS nor Front nor Back are MJ.<br /><br />
Everybody stand up for him/her but he/she rarely or never stands up for anyone.
<br />And who do you want Front to stand up for ? <br />In your opinion, is there anyone here that needs to be protected by Front?<br />Are we helpless? Aren't we able to defend ourselves and our opinions against those who contradict us?<br />We need Front to step in and help us?<br /><br />I will answer those questions ^^ for myself: <br />I don't stand up for Front nor for TS. <br />I stand up for my own beliefs and convictions!<br />I don't need Front to stand up for me when I have a contradictory conversation with the opponents here.<br />I think I can do just fine by myself.<br /><br />
<br /><br />So it´s goes the other way around as well <br />Many people as soon as the TS/ Front debate pops up are 100% on his/ her defense, but, they can defense themselves, right?<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />MissG, concerning your answer about Michael telling us directly. I think I understand you are doubting that Michael is alive? I am not sure about this maybe you can tell more. <br /><br />Concerning Michael being kind and loving I totally agree with you on this and this Hoax is proof of that even if it doesn't meet certain people's expectations or assumptions of who is Michael and what he would or wouldn't do. To me this Hoax is proof of Michael's big kinded heart and shows how much he cares for the world. Anyway I may answer more later I need some sleep now. (there should be a sighing smiley lol).<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />I still think that he is alive. I doubt he reads or participates in this forum.
What I get from Michael using numbers is that he seemed to be a bit superstitious and in the need of charms of some sort and also since he read the Bible and this one is divided in to numbers, numbers gained a meaning.<br /><br />There are some people who plan their lives according to numerology and do not make one decision or step without following those rules.<br /><br />I do not believe in the use of numbers in either way.
<br />If it is "real" numerology or not makes no difference to the debate. <br />
<br /><br />But it makes a difference if you want to explain this to "outsiders". If you tell them "the numerology proves that he faked his death", that's exactly like saying "his horoscope says that he faked his death", people won't even give that a second thought. If you say there seems to be a number code pointing in the direction that this was planned (if you believe in that), then people might look at it in a different way.
I never said I did.<br />I only said: "I hope I could help you a little bit, since you asked for some clarifications. I tried... I cannot get any clearer than that."<br /><br />
you just repeated what has been posted here and there and added your own.
Yes, that's what I said myself: "I'll try to add my way of understanding and seeing Numerology too."<br />So I took the information given by TS and I added what I found through my further research. <br /><br />
That's a very self assured statement. This means you already found your answers, otherwise you wouldn't be so sure about that. So you must know better. That must be feel great. I am glad for you, darling.<br />I am sorry if I thought your question was for real. I should have taken it as a rhetorical question. Sorry if I bothered you with my long answer.<br /><br />
oh but I don't. I understood now, after your categorical reply, that you are at piece with yourself.<br />
<br /><br />Nope, I am not sure in anything nor anyone can affirm she/he is sure about this or that. I try to keep myself calm and wait for its majesty TIME to answer on my questions. But you do good. Keep it up.
more on numerology..<br />[embed=425,349]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerology[/embed]<br />Numerology is any study of the purported divine, mystical or other special relationship between a count or measurement and life. It has many systems and traditions and beliefs. Numerology and numerological divination by systems such as isopsephy were popular among early mathematicians, such as Pythagoras, but are no longer considered part of mathematics and are regarded as pseudomathematics by modern scientists.[1][2]<br /> <br />Today, numerology is often associated with the paranormal, alongside astrology and similar divinatory arts. [3]<br /> <br />The term can also be used for those who place excess faith in numerical patterns, even if those people don't practice traditional numerology. For example, in his 1997 book Numerology: Or What Pythagoras Wrought, mathematician Underwood Dudley uses the term to discuss practitioners of the Elliott wave principle of stock market analysis.<br /> <br />Some remarks on the purported or commonly perceived numerological significance of specific small numbers may be found at the articles on these numbers, as at 77 (number).<br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Contents<br /> [hide] 1 History<br /> 2 Methods 2.1 Number definitions<br /> 2.2 Alphabetic systems<br /> 2.3 Abjad system<br /> 2.4 Abjad Karbalai<br /> 2.5 Pythagorean system<br /> <br />3 Chinese numerology 3.1 Chinese number definitions<br /> <br />4 Indian numerology<br /> 5 Other fields 5.1 Numerology and astrology<br /> 5.2 Numerology and alchemy<br /> 5.3 "Numerology" in science<br /> 5.4 Numerology in gaming<br /> <br />6 Popular culture<br /> 7 See also<br /> 8 Notes<br /> 9 References<br /> 10 External links<br /> <br /><br />[edit] History<br /> <br />Modern numerology often contains aspects of a variety of ancient cultures and teachers, including Babylonia, Pythagoras and his followers (Greece, 6th century B.C.), astrological philosophy from Hellenistic Alexandria, early Christian mysticism, early Gnostics, the Hebrew system of the Kabbalah, The Indian Vedas, the Chinese "Circle of the Dead", Egyptian "Book of the Masters of the Secret House" (Ritual of the Dead).[4]<br /> <br />Pythagoras and other philosophers of the time believed that because mathematical concepts were more "practical" (easier to regulate and classify) than physical ones, they had greater actuality. St. Augustine of Hippo (A.D. 354–430) wrote "Numbers are the Universal language offered by the deity to humans as confirmation of the truth." Similar to Pythagoras, he too believed that everything had numerical relationships and it was up to the mind to seek and investigate the secrets of these relationships or have them revealed by divine grace. See Numerology and the Church Fathers for early Christian views. However, that does not mean that Pythagoras had coined himself the system one calls numerology. Pythagoras had only paved the way to the observation of numbers as archetypes rather than mere numerals.<br /> <br />In 325 A.D., following the First Council of Nicaea, departures from the beliefs of the state Church were classified as civil violations within the Roman Empire. Numerology had not found favor with the Christian authority of the day and was assigned to the field of unapproved beliefs along with astrology and other forms of divination and "magic".[citation needed] Despite this religious purging, the spiritual significance assigned to the heretofore "sacred" numbers had not disappeared; several numbers, such as the "Jesus number" have been commented and analyzed by Dorotheus of Gaza and numerology still is used at least in conservative Greek Orthodox circles.[5][6] Numerology is prominent throughout Sir Thomas Browne's 1658 literary Discourse The Garden of Cyrus. Throughout its pages the author attempts to demonstrate that the number five and the related Quincunx pattern can be found throughout the arts, in design, and in nature - particularly botany.<br /> <br />Modern numerology has various antecedents. Ruth A. Drayer's book, Numerology, The Power in Numbers (Square One Publishers) says that around the turn of the century (from 1800 to 1900 A.D.) Mrs. L. Dow Balliett combined Pythagoras' work with Biblical reference. Then on Oct 23, 1972, Balliett's student, Dr. Juno Jordan, changed Numerology further and helped it to become the system known today under the title "Pythagorean", although Pythagoras himself had nothing to do with the system.<br /> <br />[edit] Methods<br /> <br />[edit] Number definitions<br /> <br />There are no set definitions for the meaning of specific digits. Common examples include:[7]<br /> <br />1. Individual. Aggressor. Yang.<br /> 2. Balance. Union. Receptive. Yin.<br /> 3. Communication/interaction. Leader. Innovative skills<br /> 4. Creation.<br /> 5. Action. Restlessness.<br /> 6. Reaction/flux. Responsibility.<br /> 7. Thought/consciousness.<br /> 8. Power/sacrifice.<br /> 9. Highest level of change.<br /> <br />[edit] Alphabetic systems<br /> <br />There are many numerology systems which assign numerical value to the letters of an alphabet. Examples include the Abjad numerals in Arabic, the Hebrew numerals, Armenian numerals, and Greek numerals. The practice within Jewish tradition of assigning mystical meaning to words based on their numerical values, and on connections between words of equal value, is known as gematria.<br /> <br />1= a, j, s; 2= b, k, t; 3= c, l, u; 4= d, m, v; 5= e, n, w; 6= f, o, x; 7= g, p, y; 8= h, q, z; 9= i, r<br /> <br />...and are then summed.<br /> <br />Examples:<br /> 3,489 → 3 + 4 + 8 + 9 = 24 → 2 + 4 = 6<br /> Hello → 8 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 6 = 25 → 2 + 5 = 7<br /> <br />A quicker way to arrive at a single-digit summation (the digital root) is simply to take the value modulo 9, substituting a 0 result with 9 itself.<br /> <br />Different methods of calculation exist, including Chaldean, Pythagorean, Hebraic, Helyn Hitchcock's method, Phonetic, Japanese, Arabic and Indian.<br /> <br />The examples above are calculated using decimal (base 10) arithmetic. Other number systems exist, such as binary, octal, hexadecimal and vigesimal; summing digits in these bases yields different results. The first example, shown above, appears thus when rendered in octal (base 8):<br /> 3,48910 = 66418 → 6 + 6 + 4 + 1 = 218 → 2 + 1 = 38 = 310<br /> <br />[edit] Abjad system<br /> <br />The Arabic system of numerology is known as Abjad notation. In this system each Arabic alphabet has a numerical value. This system is mother of Ilm-e-jaffer (Science of Cipher), and ilm-e-haroof (Science of Alphabet Letters). These branches of knowledge are the ways of getting supernatural forces and operations of white art and alchemy.<br /> <br />[edit] Abjad Karbalai<br /> <br />There are more than 52 Abajad having different natures of forces and power. The new Abjad developed by a well known spiritual scholar "M.A Karbalai", hence named "Abjad Karbalai". This Abjad is unique because it was developed by integrating the original and completed alphabets from Quran. The unique name of the Mother of Hazrat Moosa (A.S) is hidden in its sequence of alphabets, which can be found from a little hit and trial.<br /> <br />[edit] Pythagorean system<br /> <br />Pythagoras was never involved in the numerology systems known nowadays. He was actually a philosopher who contributed with the concept of numbers as symbols rather than mere numerals, but numerology as we know it is a system based on Gematria, which is one of the Cabbalistic disciplines. Through Gematria one can get the number of each word or name, since the Hebrew alphabet has the same symbols for both letters and numbers. Western numerology is but a way to adapt the principles of Gematria into the Latin alphabet so as to get the numbers of words and names as well.<br /> <br />[edit] Chinese numerology<br /> <br />Main article: Numbers in Chinese culture<br /> <br />Some Chinese assign a different set of meanings to the numbers and certain number combinations are considered luckier than others. In general, even numbers are considered lucky, since it is believed that good luck comes in pairs.<br /> <br />Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), and its associated fields such as acupuncture, base their "science" on “mystical numerical associations”, such as the “12 vessels circulating blood and air corresponding to the 12 rivers flowing toward the Central Kindgom; and 365 parts of the body, one for each day of the year” being the basis of locating acupuncture points.[8]<br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />[edit] Chinese number definitions<br /> <br />Cantonese frequently associate numbers with the following connotations (based on its sound), which may differ in other Chinese languages:<br /> 1.一 [jɐ́t] — sure<br /> 2.二 [ji̭ː] — easy 易 [ji̭ː]<br /> 3.三 [sáːm] — live 生 [sáːŋ]<br /> 4.四 [sēi] — considered unlucky since 4 is a homophone with the word for death or suffering 死 [sěi], yet in the Shanghainese, it is a homophone of water (水)and is considered lucky since water is associated with money.<br /> 5.五 [ŋ̬] — the self, me, myself 吾 [ŋ̭], nothing, never 唔 [ŋ, m][need tone]<br /> 6.六 [lùːk] — easy and smooth, all the way<br /> 7.七 [tsʰɐ́t] — a slang/vulgar word in Cantonese.<br /> 8.八 [pāːt] — sudden fortune, prosperity 發 [fāːt]<br /> 9.九 [kɐ̌u] — long in time 久 [kɐ̌u], enough 夠 [kɐ̄u] or a slang/vulgar word derived from dog 狗 [kɐ̌u] in Cantonese<br /> <br />Some "lucky number" combinations include:<br /> 99 — doubly long in time, hence eternal; used in the name of a popular Chinese-American supermarket chain, 99 Ranch Market.<br /> 168 — many premium-pay telephone numbers in China begin with this number, which is considered lucky. It is also the name of a motel chain in China (Motel 168).<br /> 518 — I will prosper<br /> 814 — Similar to 168, this means "be wealthy, entire life". 148 also implies the same meaning "entire life be wealthy".<br /> 888 — Three times the prosperity, means "wealthy wealthy wealthy".<br /> 1314 — whole lifetime, existence.<br /> 289 — ease in finding enough luck/fortune and holding it for a long time. (2 is easy, 8 is fortune, 9 is enough and/or for a long time)<br /> <br />[edit] Indian numerology<br /> 1.1, 10, 19, 28 are ruled by the SUN, count 1 for letters: AIJQY<br /> 2.2, 11, 20, 29 are ruled by the MOON, count 2 for letters: BCKR<br /> 3.3, 12, 21, 30 are ruled by JUPITER, count 3 for letters: GLS<br /> 4.4, 13, 22, 31 are ruled by RAHU, count 4 for letters: DMT<br /> 5.5, 14, 23, are ruled by MERCURY, count 5 for letters: NE<br /> 6.6, 15, 24 are ruled by VENUS, count 6 for letters: UVWX<br /> 7.7, 16, 25 are ruled by KETU, count 7 for letters: OZ<br /> 8.8, 17, 26 are ruled by SATURN, count 8 for letters: FHP<br /> 9.9, 18, 27 are ruled by MARS, no letters for 9<br /> 518 — WE will prosper<br /> 814 — Similar to 168, this means "be wealthy, entire life". 148 also implies the same meaning "entire life be wealthy".<br /> 888 — Three times the prosperity, means "wealthy wealthy wealthy".<br /> 1314 — whole lifetime, existence.<br /> 289 — ease in finding enough luck/fortune and holding it for a long time. (2 is easy, 8 is fortune, 9 is enough and/or for a long time)<br /> 9999 — enough fortune for long long time.<br /> <br />[edit] Other fields<br /> <br />[edit] Numerology and astrology<br /> <br />Main article: astrology and numerology<br /> <br />Some astrologers believe that each number from 0 to 9 is ruled by a celestial body in our solar system.<br /> <br />[edit] Numerology and alchemy<br /> <br />Many alchemical theories were closely related to numerology. Arabian alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan, inventor of many chemical processes still used today, framed his experiments in an elaborate numerology based on the names of substances in the Arabic language.<br /> <br />[edit] "Numerology" in science<br /> <br />Scientific theories are sometimes labeled "numerology" if their primary inspiration appears to be a set of patterns rather than scientific observations. This colloquial use of the term is quite common within the scientific community and it is mostly used to dismiss a theory as questionable science.<br /> <br />The best known example of "numerology" in science involves the coincidental resemblance of certain large numbers that intrigued such eminent men as mathematical physicist Paul Dirac, mathematician Hermann Weyl and astronomer Arthur Stanley Eddington. These numerical co-incidences refer to such quantities as the ratio of the age of the universe to the atomic unit of time, the number of electrons in the universe, and the difference in strengths between gravity and the electric force for the electron and proton. ("Is the Universe Fine Tuned for Us?", Stenger, V.J., page 3[9]).<br /> <br />The discovery of atomic triads (dealing with elements primarily in the same group or column of the periodic table) was considered a form of numerology, and yet ultimately led to the construction of the periodic table. Here the atomic weight of the lightest element and the heaviest are summed, and averaged, and the average is found to be very close to that of the intermediate weight element. This didn't work with every triplet in the same group, but worked often enough to allow later workers to create generalizations. See Döbereiner's Triads<br /> <br />Large number co-incidences continue to fascinate many mathematical physicists. For instance, James G. Gilson has constructed a "Quantum Theory of Gravity" based loosely on Dirac's large number hypothesis.[10]<br /> <br />Wolfgang Pauli was also fascinated by the appearance of certain numbers, including 137, in physics.[11]<br /> <br />[edit] Numerology in gaming<br /> <br />Some players apply methods that are sometimes called numerological in games which involve numbers but no skill, such as bingo, roulette, keno, or lotteries. Although no strategy can be applied to increase odds in such games, players may employ "lucky numbers" to find what they think will help them. There is no evidence that any such "numerological strategy" yields a better outcome than pure chance, but the methods are sometimes encouraged, e.g. by casino owners.[12]<br /> <br />[edit] Popular culture<br /> <br />Numerology is a popular plot device in fiction. It can range from a casual item for comic effect, such as in an episode titled The Seance of the 1950s TV sitcom I Love Lucy, where Lucy dabbles in numerology, to a central element of the storyline, such as the movie π, in which the protagonist meets a numerologist searching for hidden numerical patterns in the Torah. The movie The Number 23, starring Jim Carrey, was based on the mystery of the number 23. In the DC comics maxi-series "52", the number 52 repeatedly appears as hints to the overall plot.<br /> <br />[edit] See also<br /> <br />23 Enigma<br /> Abjad<br /> Al-Jafr (book)<br /> Al-Jamia (scroll)<br /> Arithmancy<br /> Biblical numerology<br /> Number of the Beast<br /> Numbers in Chinese culture<br /> Numbers in Egyptian mythology<br /> Numbers in Norse mythology<br /> Occult<br /> Significance of numbers in Judaism Gematria<br /><br />huggs n love n faith to all bearhug<br />suzz
Everybody stand up for him/her but he/she rarely or never stands up for anyone.
<br />And who do you want Front to stand up for ? <br />In your opinion, is there anyone here that needs to be protected by Front?<br />Are we helpless? Aren't we able to defend ourselves and our opinions against those who contradict us?<br />We need Front to step in and help us?<br /><br />I will answer those questions ^^ for myself: <br />I don't stand up for Front nor for TS. <br />I stand up for my own beliefs and convictions!<br />I don't need Front to stand up for me when I have a contradictory conversation with the opponents here.<br />I think I can do just fine by myself.
So it´s goes the other way around as well<br />Many people as soon as the TS/ Front debate pops up are 100% on his/ her defense, but, they can defense themselves, right?<br />
Lol let's play the contradiction game then... we can turn the subject on all sides... <br /><br />So it goes the other way around as wellfor my questions too! <br />In your opinion, Front /TS need our help to defend them? Do they seem helpless to you?<br />Do you think they feel like they need to defend themselves? Maybe they don't, maybe they do.<br />But I definitely don't think they need ANYONE to stand up for them.<br /><br />And I repeat: I stand up for my own beliefs, I don't need any of them to stand up for me and I doubt that TS / Front needs me or anyone else to stand up for them. I really think they could manage all by themselves very well if they wanted to get involved in a contradictory discussion, I mean everybody should give them at least that small amount of credit even if you guys think they are fakers or manipulators or whatever perception, more or less confused, you might have about them.<br />
"In your opinion, Front /TS need our help to defend them? Do they seem helpless to you?"<br /><br />Helpless? NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖöööööö au contrarie...way too powerful.
The way can be read over pages. Each one to his/her conclusion.
even if there are "pages" written, I still didn't understand what power you are talking about. Please, can you be more specific? Give some examples, I am really trying to understand your point of view.
I´ll try to be short and clear. Both have gained supporters, followers, people who agree with them in a higher % vs "naysayers".<br /><br />Many members here have posted valid points, smart posts, and a lot of informative deductions regarding MJ his life and the case yet are not as "powerful" or have influenced the rest as TS or Front does. <br /><br />Of the how come and the why i made up my mind long ago and some thoughts i rather keep to not influence others too much with second opinions. <br />No one needs to agree or think alike. This is not X vs Y. I am ok with others putting certain members on a pedestal but not to impose who to trust or like or enjoy.<br /><br />I like TS´s posts, and Front´s at times, and yours SimpattiK and I value every one the same. <br /><br />There have been here members who posted a lot of info, quite good posts and never got as many followers. Some of the posts talked about things that TS have been posting after they made the posts, but people ignored those posts when the others wrote it. However, members read carefully similar ideas posted before when TS came up with a post. <br /><br />That´s power and influence and imo is happening because some members DO BELIEVE that MJ is behind those accounts.<br /><br />Get ma´point now?
<br />Both have gained supporters, followers, people who agree with them in a higher % vs "naysayers".
<br />1. Why do you think they have gained supporters? <br />2. Do you think those supporters are their victims?<br />3. Do you think those supporters are easily manipulated individuals?<br />4. Do you think the number of their supporters is great? How great, approximately?<br />5. Do you think that the number of their supporters is indicative of that power you were talking about?<br /><br />
on 1327012554:
<br />Many members here have posted valid points, smart posts, and a lot of informative deductions regarding MJ his life and the case yet are not as "powerful" or have influenced the rest as TS or Front does.
<br />1. Does it really matter that some people are powerful and others are not? I mean as long as you consider all the posts were smart and informative, does it really matter who is powerful and who is not? regardless of that, the reader is enriched, so the purpose is fulfilled.<br />2. According to you that power means the power of attraction? You think that what makes TS/Front powerful is that people are attracted to them?<br />3. Do you think it is a bad thing that people are attracted to TS/Front?<br />4. According to you what are or what could be the dangers / negative effects of this attraction/power?<br />5. Do you think that because TS/Front are powerful, they can force people of doing something bad? In what way can/could TS/Front force people to read their messages? and/or do something bad?<br />6. To what extent do you think their power goes?<br /><br />
on 1327012554:
Of the how come and the why i made up my mind long ago and some thoughts i rather keep to not influence others too much with second opinions.
Trust me, I wont be influenced, you can tell me if you want, even if it never occurred to me to ask you that.<br /><br />
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No one needs to agree or think alike.
I agree and I never said otherwise.<br />The reason why I am having this dialogue with you is not intended to have you agreeing with me nor vice-versa.<br />I only want to understand how you view things, what makes you doubt and I find very interesting the way you think, it arouses my interest the more I read you.<br /><br />
on 1327012554:
I am ok with others putting certain members on a pedestal but not to impose who to trust or like or enjoy.
Yes I think the same. <br />But who imposed those things and to whom?<br /><br />
on 1327012554:
I like TS´s posts, and Front´s at times, and yours SimpattiK and I value every one the same.
Thank you very much. And just know I appreciate yours very much too!<br /><br />
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There have been here members who posted a lot of info, quite good posts and never got as many followers.
Do you think that "getting many followers" is an important thing? <br /><br />
on 1327012554:
Some of the posts talked about things that TS have been posting after they made the posts, but people ignored those posts when the others wrote it.
Super!! I think this^^ is the best thing you wrote in this message! <br />And whose fault is that, according to you?<br />Is it really TS' or Front's fault that people are more receptive and pay more attention to the person who delivers the message than to the message in itself?<br /><br />
on 1327012554:
That´s power and influence
Ok, let's say a user posts something very interesting today and people ignore it , just like you said it happened other times too.<br />In this case: how are TS or Front guilty for this? How can they influence people to ignore that interesting post? <br /><br />
on 1327012554:
and imo is happening because some members DO BELIEVE that MJ is behind those accounts.
<br />1. But do you think that "some members" believe that because they have some reasons to believe it ? or Do you think they have no reasons at all? <br />2. In case you think they have no reasons at all: can you at least admit that maybe it's you who doesn't understand/see their reasons? even if there's "pages" of them?! <br />I mean you're entitled to think they have no reasons to believe that MJ is behind TS/Front and nobody has the right to force you to think otherwise. But we can at least talk about it , right? <br />So what I'm saying is that the fact that you don't see/understand those reasons, it doesn't mean they do not exist.<br /><br />3. If you believe that Michael is alive, how do you see him now? Do you think he will ever come back? Do you think he has a plan or do you think he faked his death and now he's living happily ever after in his hidden place?<br />4. In your opinion, Michael would never try to contact his fans via family-clues and or Internet? Do you think he just got it all out of his head once he "died" for the rest of the world?<br />5. In case you think that Michael still wants to come back and keep contact with his fans, how do you think he would do that?<br /><br />
on 1327012554:
Get ma´point now?
More or less. Thank you for answering.<br />Much LOVE to you!<br />
<br />I do agree with you MissG!<br />And if you dont mind me interrupting you both, I would like to ask Simpattik a few questions as well:)<br />1. How long have you been thinking that Elvis is still alive?<br />2. What made you think that Elvis is still alive, when and how has it happened? Are you absolutelly sure that Elvis is still alive and if not what percentage of Elvis being still alive is true?<br />3. Do you think the fact that you have been thinking that Elvis is still alive has an effect on you? If it does, in what way? <br />4. Do you think that those who claim to see him dead lying in an open casket haven't shown enough proof or were clearly seeing things? If they are either of that why do you think they lied? Could be that they had a hiden agenda or were they insiders implanted by Elvis to lead fans astray?Or was it Elvis himself who invented the story?If so, is that the reason why you are positive that front is an insider or MJ himself cause you think that Elvis and MJ's stories are the same? Or you don't think so? If you don't then what percentage of similarity is true?<br />5. If their stories are the same, does it mean that MJ will never come back? Or you think that MJ never repeats anyone and would come up with something completely brand new?If so then would that mean that their stories are not the same?<br />6. Have you ever considered that you may be wrong thinking that Elvis is still alive? If you have, have you also considered the possibility that you may be also wrong thinking that front\ts are insiders? How much of importance is your own rightness? Not excactly yours but anybody's? Does it necessarily mean that people who think otherwise should necessarily be shoved by other people ideas or beliefs down their throats?<br />Or do those who are currently being shoved have a slight chance to think for themselves and make up their own mind without risk of being shoved? Do you get angry when someone says - you're an absolute nutcase, Elvis is dead?<br /><br />Jeez my fingers hurt lol<br /><br />Also, Ladies I notice that those who tried hard to get rid of those who were skeptical about front in the BACKs thread and constantly showed them the door have been doing exactly the same thing in here.:) Thats funny:) People have created a new thread to not be bashed and not welcomed anymore yet they still are lol But the funniest thing is that those whos slogan is - Get outta here if you dont like whats been discussed here NEVER follow their own advice lol<br />Take a leaf from Sousa's book. She is clearly not interested in this thread and doesn't make extremely long posts falling over herself to make you believe she's right and her opinion is a gospel <br /><br />I, for one do like TS, so what? I would never try to make you love him\her!:)<br /><br /><br />Jeez my poor fingers lol
And JT your purpose of posting that was for what reason? To spread love and peace? Add to the discussion? Or was it to start a little fire?<br /><br />That's a rhetorical question for anyone who wasn't sure.
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