<br />AnaMarcia, I appreciate that your tone was helpful in defusing a possibly rising situation. I think sometimes when there is a language barrier, there can be frustrations and wrong interpretations leading to tones that can appear hostile.
<br /><br />Then practice what you preach!<br />I'm sorry, I had to get this of off my chest!<br />Because I didn't have the feeling I was rude in my post, yet you attacked me on it, and when I appologized, you didn't even bother to answer me. But it's okay.<br /><br />
Post #82<br />TIAI revealed, part 6<br /><br />Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.<br /><br />Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”!<br />My remark:<br /><br />Maybe I'm off topic but I would like to point out the red parts in TS' post. As I've said before, I was never a follower of TS, doesn't mean that I assume that he is fake, not at all, but to me it wasn't necessary to follow him to learn more about the hoax. What strikes me as very strange is that TS is saying that WE were not ready for a return, otherwise Michael COULD HAVE returned/bammed at Halloween!!! In 2009!!!! What he is saying that we first had to learn more about NWO aspects of the Hoax. And now, TWO years later, knowing much more about NWO and many many other aspects, are we still not ready??? Ofcourse, there could be many other aspects and problems Michael faced during these past two years, so maybe HE is the one now who is not ready to return (if he will return at all), but that's not what TS implies in his post. He specifically is saying that it's US, WE are not ready.<br />Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, and I don't want to accuse TS in any way, but I feel this is striking remark of him that contradicts the sequel of the hoax. <br /><br />I hope members over here are not mad at me for writing this, we agreed that, as long as we discuss things in a respectful way, we could ask anything. Like I've said, I know not too much about TS and maybe he proved himself right for many times now, but this is very odd to me.
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Post #97<br />Your reply:<br /><br />Do, in your TS posts.<br /> <br />I agree that TS is saying that by and large many hoaxers on this site are not ready for MJ's return because they haven’t bothered to read his posts, to even begin to understand the reasons for the hoax and the nature of his return and BAM, relating to the EOW and NOW. And yes, I agree this hoax parallels OTHER things in history, many things, because it is a genius masterful plan, channelled from God, IMO. This is it! On so many levels.<br /><br />[size=12pt]Who critiques something who hasn't even bothered to read and re-read something in its entirety? That's like tabloid trash[/size]!
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Post #150<br />My reply to you:<br /><br />MJonmind, it was absolutely NOT my intension to upset people with my question/remark. You are right, I shouldn't have opened my mouth without exactly knowing what I was talking about. When I read the post of Paula, this was only something that I noticed. When I said that I wasn't a follower of TS, I didn't mean that I haven't read ANY of his posts, because I have. I interpreted the post like it was ONLY BECAUSE OF US and our not-knowing/understanding, otherwise Michael had returned already. Like there weren't any other major and important reasons which caused Michael to hoax his death, than to learn us, a relatively small group of hoaxers, about NWO, the media, child abuse, you name it. That was strange to me, I hope you understand what I'm saying, [size=12pt]I have a hard time explaing myself in English[/size].<br /><br />@Bec, thank you for your explanation.<br /><br />@PaulaC, I know that you posted for an entire other reason, I'm sorry that I used it for my question.<br /><br />@Anna, I'm sorry that I was off-topic with my question.<br /><br />No hard feelings? I will not interfere again!
<br /><br />In your post #214, you addressed a lot, but not my apologies.<br /> confused/ <br />
<br /><br /><br />Do, I totally apologize for not responding to you. I never thought I was attacking you at all, so I didn't even realize there was a problem. I mentioned twice that I was agreeing with you in my first paragraph directed to you, thinking positive thoughts towards your post! So I'm feeling a little confused. The general discussion back then was a lot of criticism of TS by people who didn't even read his posts, so my final statement about tabloid trash was to those specific people, not necessarily you. There's been so much to read lately, it's been hard to keep up with all the threads, plus I work half the week, so on those days I can't read as much.<br /><br /><br />My post:http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22007.msg384975#msg384975<br /><br />Your post:http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=22007.msg385158#msg385158<br /><br /><br /><br />Very sorry! Please no hard feelings?<br /> bearhug
<br />@Simpattik, <br /><br />Misleading, brainwashing technique based on fear. It has NOTHING to do with Michael Jackson. NOTHING.<br /><br />Be ready for the EOW? really?....well, be ready for the end of your life (our lives) every day, because since we are born we are dying slowly and that day will come sooner or later, that we are sure about.<br /><br />Playing the fear card on people is so low, TS. <br />Jesus, Mohammed or the green rabbit cannot make things better or worst as they are already.<br /><br />People, focus in living your life happy and loving each other as you feel like it instead of getting afraid whit those theories which only agenda is to make you change your mind, faith or beliefs.<br /><br />Do as you feel but don´t take TS´s words as "the gospel". Be objective and think for yourself. <br />
<br /><br />Couldn't agree more.<br /><br />TS is an example of person who has known the taste of talking from the podium and having authority over others' minds. <br />No critics toward himself, at all. Leave alone 'moderation' and 'editing' of texts. Ah, excuse me, 'Revelations'!<br />Leave alone the form appropriate for specific place, time and beholders... Any product of his intellectual activity -- seems, he believes so -- <br />is a priceless gem, worthy to be made public. Hell NO. /pull hair/<br /><br />Sure, MJ is a person with particular religious attitudes. Perhaps, MJ is interested in a symbolism, numerology and other <br />subtle stuff that makes sense in a creative man's reality. But the manner of TS' 'work', his representation and interpretation <br />of how exactly all those things are implemented and reflected in the hoax -- this makes the hoax, subjects like faith, <br />religion, numerology, etc, and MJ himself PARODY. unhealthy, unhumorous, obsessive parody. <br /><br />I guess, TS has nothing to do with MJ's death hoax, it's a pure coincidence that TS appeared at the right time in the right place. <br />(god works in mysterious way hehe ; ) Here, in MJ's hoax community, TS found his own CHURCH. <br />All its troubled, confused audience became HIS OWN FLOCK, and he became their SHEPHERD --<br />wow, such a great possibility for a preacher!<br /><br />I choose go to hell and being on Lucifer's side, but not to be led by this paranoid shepherd -- <br />who is but a typical second-generation religious fanatic -- to a some illusory 'salvation.' Pffft.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br /><br />Do, I totally apologize for not responding to you. I never thought I was attacking you at all, so I didn't even realize there was a problem. I mentioned twice that I was agreeing with you in my first paragraph directed to you, thinking positive thoughts towards your post! So I'm feeling a little confused. The general discussion back then was a lot of criticism of TS by people who didn't even read his posts, so my final statement about tabloid trash was to those specific people, not necessarily you. There's been so much to read lately, it's been hard to keep up with all the threads, plus I work half the week, so on those days I can't read as much.<br /><br /><br /><br />Very sorry! Please no hard feelings?<br /> bearhug <br />
<br /><br />MJonmind, THANK YOU SO MUCH for your response!! That darn language barrier!! We are not quite on the same path about TS but to me that's no problem at all. To me, he made some kind of 'BAM-promises' (mentioned in my first post) that never came true. And that's why I felt (and still feel) a little confused about him.<br />I thougt, reading your response, that you had a problem with the fact that I critized TS, but THAT was not my intention. And it was not YOUR intention that I took it personally. Alright, it's clear now, thanks, again, for your kind words!<br />And I know it's hard to keep up with everything on here, I have a problem with that also!!<br /><br />Ofcourse no hard feelings!! Big hug back to ya bearhug
<br />@MissG...thanks for your reply. As I suspected, it's a difference in interpretation, which I guess is to be expected because we will all interpret it in our own way based on several factors. <br /><br />Based on your interpretation, you concluded that:<br />
<br />The post said in resume accept Jesus and God or die<br />
<br /><br />I didn't interpret it at all in that way...and I may have missed it, but nowhere in the post did I see TS specifically say that. If he didn't, then you are 'inferring' or 'interpreting' that. I interpreted it as 'taking sides'... being on the 'right' side vs. the 'wrong' side (good vs. evil, etc). None of that portion of the post is 'news' to me...I think most people try to live their lives on the 'good' side of things...regardless of a belief in a higher power.<br /><br />Could you quote what part of the post you are referring to in the above quote?<br /><br />Again, I'm just trying to 'see' it from a different perspective...and we seem to be seeing it quite differently. (Not sure if we should keep posting in this thread or move it over to the other).<br /><br />@Sim...yes, I have also learned to 'let it simmer' before making any rash 'judgements' or decisions...not only with TS' posts but with everything in life.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br />
<br /><br />I will next time i connect! time to sleep now.<br />
<br /><br />Back to the post, i noticed that the layout has changed, however, here some points.<br /><br />Point 21<br />http://www.michaelsarmyoflove.com/forum/index.php?topic=56.msg118#msg118<br /><br />"Fortunately, if someone starts to oppose this truth now, there is still a little time left to get back on the right side, before it’s too late. However, opposition usually works like a very powerful inertia; once someone starts opposing something, it is very difficult to change directions later. So be extremely careful before you decide to oppose this message, or saying anything that would prejudice others against it."<br /><br />"If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”<br /><br />"faith that will conquer Lucifer and all who take sides with him"<br /><br /><br /><br />A must read:<br />http://www.howcultswork.com/<br /><br />Cult leaders will tell you can only be "saved" (or can only be successful) in their organization alone. No other organization has the truth, all others miss the mark. So it is not the belief system that decides your future, but it the belief system AND your membership with that particular group. <br /><br />You are not on "God´s" side, so you are the enemy.<br /><br />The cult leaders need to make you believe that there is no where else you can go and still be saved, and if you ever leave the "one true church" then you are going to hell.This is a fear based control mechanism designed to keep you in the cult. It also gives the cult leaders tremendous power over you. If you really believe that leaving the group equals leaving God (or means you are leaving your only chance to succeed in life), then you will obey the cult leaders even when you disagree with them instead of risking being kicked out of the group. Exclusivism is used as a threat, it controls your behavior through fear. <br />Cult leadership is feared. To disagree with leadership is the same as disagreeing with God.<br /><br />If the cult is not a religious group then questioning the leaders or program will still be seen as a sign of rebellion and stupidity. <br /><br />Those who control the information control the person; TS saying that he has insider information regarding Michael...well :roll:<br /><br /> In a mind control cult any information from outside the cult is considered evil, especially if it is opposing the cult. Members are told not to read it or believe it. Only information supplied by the cult is true. ---> whatever TS or Front write is the truth :roll:<br /><br />Cults train their members to instantly destroy any critical information given to them, and to not even entertain the thought that the information could be true. <br /><br />Mind control cults keep their members so busy with meetings and activities that they become too busy and too tired to think about their involvement--->Hours of reading redirects, but not just for fun as many did, really digging deep and taking off time from friends and family.<br /><br />Time control also helps the cult keep their members immersed in the manufactured cult environment--->TS´s Redirects<br /><br />And time control helps keep cult members away from friends and family. <br /><br />Other signs <br /><br />Times you are vulnerable.--->Yes. Many members of this forum had been devastated by Michael´s passing, depressed and hurt.<br />Experiential rather than logical.<br />Fake friendship.<br />End of world pressure.--->"para muestra, un botón" we say in my country :roll:<br />Pressure to do crazy things.<br />Secret knowledge.--->*cough* insider´s bs *cough*<br />Single charismatic leader. :-[ How come?<br />People always seeming constantly happy and enthusiastic. Especially if you discover that they have been told to act that way for the potential new recruits.) Yes!!!!! party/ TS/ Front answered to my post /bravo/ yipiieeeee <br />Instant friends.<br />If you are told who you can or cannot talk to or associate with.<br />They hide what they teach.<br />Say they are the only true group, or the best so why go anywhere else.<br />Hyped meetings, get you to meetings rather than share with you.<br />Experiential rather than logical.<br />Asking for money for the next level.<br /><br />Some cults travel door to door during times when women are home alone. They, and this is rather sexist, think that women are easier to recruit and once they have the woman then it will be easier to snare the husband or partner.<br /><br />Hhhmmmm, how many men are in here? please raise your hand typing/<br /><br /><br />TS operates as a cult leader, whatever his reasons are.<br /><br />I am totally ok with people spreading their faith but playing the guilt card, inducing fear (yes, to survive is a human task) to pass through the EOW and shoveling faith that way is plain wrong.<br /><br />Ask the starving people in India, Africa or other countries about their concern on this so called EOW :roll: ask the same to women being raped many times every single day in their villages by their husbands. Ask the aborigine tribes of the world about that or the child being abused.<br /><br /> I just can say
<br />Those with a "weak and humble" mind would fall in to it, as depressed people or people who joined this forum after MJ´s death, because they were depressed, hurt and lost. [...]
:shock: :shock::shock: <br />@MissG I'm shocked by your statement!! Is THAT your opinion about people who joined this forum?<br /><br />Besides the offensive aspect of your statement (even if I know you do not refer to ALL the members, at least I hope so!), so besides this, in my opinion it makes no sense, because the biggest difference between beLIEvers and non-beLIEvers has always been this:<br />1. beLIEvers have always remained optimistic, full of faith, in their clear and calm state of minds , which helped them investigate and cleverly find more and more proves of Michael being alive. So totally the opposite of what you're saying.<br />2. non-beLIEvers have always remained blinded by their grief, they've been depressed, always nervous and hateful, enraged either towards the beLIEvers or Conrad Murray (some even demanding his death) , many manifested hatred towards MJ's family, etc....<br /><br />So to say what you said about people who joined this forum, in my opinion is just as if you said that non-beLIEvers joined MJDHI suspicious// because IMO your characterization fits a non-believer's profile! especially the "weak and humble mind" part. <br /><br />
on 1327188855:
The difference between some of us is that many have their minds already formed and in no way there is a place for a change in beliefs of thoughts and others are still vulnerable.
Please give examples of those "vulnerable members". If you are so concerned about them, maybe you should address to them directly and help them see what you see.<br /><br />
"I can't see why such clever people , able to use so "manipulative , mind controlling" techniques, why were they so dumb as to waste their time and their intelligence here on this small audience-forum?"
<br />1,2,3 is better than 0. there is no need to be 100.
:roll: Allow me to doubt that Illuminati or any other fanatic ...occult clan would even move a finger for 2-3 people! It's really NOT worth it!<br /><br />
on 1327191389:
I am aware that many people have changed their faith already from agnostic to believing. Just read Souza´s blog as an example.
And do you think it's a bad thing for people to start trusting in God?<br /><br />I think that whatever helps people have greater faith in God is a good thing. I don't see anything bad , hidden, occult effect coming out from this. My faith in God increased since the beginning of this hoax! And I haven't followed TS from the beginning, only later.. besides that I am happier than ever with what i discovered from this hoax and from TS posts as well !<br />And I don't feel manipulated in any way and whatever happens I won't let myself dragged into any occult sect or clan, in case in the end, TIAI proves to be just that. I would continue with my investigation into MJ & Elvis hoax and I will go on with my life. Nothing changes whether TS is a fake or the real deal!<br /><br />
on 1327191389:
And no, sympattik, I am not as motivated. I believe my posts are short and clear and feel just explaining my points over and over. I am tired.
is there any competition of who is more or less motivated? or who has shorter or clearer messages? or what? suspicious//<br /><br /><br /><br />
on 1327191547:
<br />At the end of his post he says something like, if you are neutral you will be considered to be on Satan's side. I think.
As I said in a previous message, I am being neutral for the moment regarding TS post! until I can analyze, check, research everything. <br />Plus, the statement you are referring at, has nothing to do with what people think about TS posts. At least this is my opinion. It has more to do with having faith in God.<br /><br />
on 1327188855:
<br />[...] at no point when reading his post (and it took about an hour) did I feel 'fear' of any kind. Confusion, questions, uncertainties...yes, but not 'conditioned fear'[...]
<br />+1 <br />
<br /><br />For how long have you been visiting chats, forums, youtube or similar regarding this matter?<br /><br />Paying attention to certain members one can easily see how devastated and depressed they were/ are, no matter if it was before, after or during this hoax. the fact is that many vulnerable and mind weak people has been gathered around and this forum is not exception.<br /><br />
Another fact. Mental institutions are full of "brillant, intelligent" religion fanatics. Charles Manson has a brillant mind, btw.<br /><br />Many terror attacks are performed by those fanatics who want to fulfill so called prophecies from their books of faith.<br /><br />THOSE are the ones who are the most dangerous. We are told to not blindly believe in all we read yet people follows a book manipulated and transcripted over the centuries by men and the books happened to be modified due to socio-political issues.<br /><br />Why don´t faithful believers do as we, atheists, do? In order to achieve my position I needed to go over a lot of literature.<br /><br />Do you know why some decide not to believe in those theories? It´s called to S.T.U.D.Y, critical thinking.<br /><br />If one wants to believe in God, it needs to happen by conviction of thought and beliefs, not for fear that the world would end and guilt that one wasn´t on "the good side"<br /><br />Love "GOD" by loving yourself and the people around you, every day, making a difference and a better place. <br /><br />Once we are dead, it´s finito, caput, nada. Cultivate your life while alive instead of focusing in the end of times. We appreciate life when we fear death but we can do it knowing that we can get sick and die instead of mythological theories that can come true only by the hand of men.<br />
I don't think this TS is the same TS we have been dealing with for the past 2.5 years. I don't know how or why that would be, but I have a suspicion that this is not the same person that posted the Updates and then later the Levels.
Well, Bec. You are a mod and can check ip´s. I know that ip´s are not accurate anyway and can be hidden up behind the real one but to think that this TS is not the original one does not fit.<br /><br />It is the same imo, just went a bit too far with the indoctrination and the ultimatum "join now or be on devil´s side". Christians who believe and follow the bible don´t need this "advice, so towards who is that advice?<br /><br />I can tell you that if the very one Michael Jackson in flesh and blood would talk to his supporters (as me) about this, the reactions would be different, but only because I like what he has shown in his videos and how kind he is, but I doubt I would have a change of mind.<br /><br /><br />
MissG, that's not true at all. Front and TS have NEVER said "take my words as truth." They have ALWAYS said the exact opposite. Here are a few quotes from Front to remind you: <br /><br />July 9:"As I have stated many times, do not take my words as Truth….for it cannot be altered, regardless! Careful consideration and illuminous observations will lead one to that Truth; gulping down spoon-fed words will not".<br /><br />October 13:"You don't need to trust anyone behind a screen ID; you need to trust yourself and Michael. If you believe in yourself and you believe in him and all the clues that he has set forth---even PRIOR to Jun 25, which are STILL being found…that's all you NEED."<br /><br />October 13:"Stated a million times over: Do not let others---including Yours Truly!--dictate your beliefs. Seek the answers YOURSELF and make your OWN decisions. MJ has/is/will continue to provide the building blocks with which you can utilize---or not! your choice-- to pave the way and make this journey a little smoother. What you choose to CONSTRUCT with those "building blocks" is totally…YOUR choice."<br /><br />"Again, for the 9837615th TIME…..no one from THIS end of the screen ever ever--do I make myself clear?---EVER! said to take these words as dogmatic Truth. Au contraire! Be aware. Doubt. Observe. Analyze every letter/number/keystroke. The PROOF will be---yes, in the custard pie! --but also in the proclamation of The King's return."<br /><br />December 31:<br />"If you're not a religious person…it matters not! <br />If you think Front is Mickey Mouse…it matters not!<br />If you're a religious person, have faith in God.<br />If you're not, then have faith in Michael."<br /><br /><br />TS said the same as well several times, so everyone is encouraged to think for themselves and make their own choices. <br /><br />
on 1327249943:
<br />I don't think this TS is the same TS we have been dealing with for the past 2.5 years. I don't know how or why that would be, but I have a suspicion that this is not the same person that posted the Updates and then later the Levels.<br />
<br /><br />Bec I was wondering what you meant by “not the same TS”. Would you mind elaborating? I am sure everyone would be thankful.
What do you make out of this then, Sarahli?<br /><br />"Fortunately, if someone starts to oppose this truth now, there is still a little time left to get back on the right side, before it’s too late. However, opposition usually works like a very powerful inertia; once someone starts opposing something, it is very difficult to change directions later. So be extremely careful before you decide to oppose this message, or saying anything that would prejudice others against it."<br /><br />"If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”<br /><br />"faith that will conquer Lucifer and all who take sides with him"<br /><br />
<br />Well, Bec. You are a mod and can check ip´s. I know that ip´s are not accurate anyway and can be hidden up behind the real one but to think that this TS is not the original one does not fit.<br />
<br /><br />No, I don't have access to that sort of stuff as a mod.<br /><br />@Sarahli, I think there is more then one person posting from the TS_comments screenname. I won't say publicly why I think that, for hopefully obvious reasons. I can't really make sense of this, or reason why this would be, or come up with a theory to explain what the motive for it is yet, it's just a careful observation that I'm throwing out there.
To me sounds like either believe or go to feed the maggots.<br /><br />I believe in what I want to and that does not mean to be against Michael or not on his side.<br /><br />Michael was a man respecting all faiths and beliefs and to not believe in something is also a belief, so why would Michael be so unrespectfull to the ones who decide not to be a part of it? What´s all that condition about?<br /><br />Nah, i don´t buy it. I support Michael as a person and that post of TS has nothing to do with it.
<br /><br />Michael was a man respecting all faiths and beliefs and to not believe in something is also a belief, <br />so why would Michael be so unrespectfull to the ones who decide not to be a part of it? <br />What´s all that condition about?<br />Nah, i don´t buy it. I support Michael as a person and that post of TS has nothing to do with it.<br /><br />
<br />If one wants to believe in God, it needs to happen by conviction of thought and beliefs, <br />not for fear that the world would end and guilt that one wasn´t on "the good side"<br />
<br /><br />+1000<br />...Not to mention that belief is a very private matter...<br /><br />as to 'the good/dark side', guess the speaker just got carried away with his own flaming speech. <br />tho', of course, it's hard not to appreciate his agility.. to use a hoax of a pop artist to promote <br />biblical ideas of doomsday and salvation among his super-impressable fans? <br />very, very, very creatively. /bravo/
<br />[...]I choose go to hell and being on Lucifer's side, but not to be led by this paranoid shepherd -- <br />who is but a typical second-generation religious fanatic -- to a some illusory 'salvation.' Pffft.<br />
:shock:<br /><br /><br />Well, I think we arrived at a moment in this hoax where people really made their decision or if they haven't yet, it's about time they made it. It's either "black or white"! There are no middle "nuances".<br /><br />Whatever your decisions are: peace be with you and since I can't see any reasons for certain people to stick around on this forum, I think it's the moment for Goodbye(s), too.<br /><br /><br />And to the "vulnerable" "paranoids" (me included) that choose to stick around and read the messages of a "manipulative" "paranoid fanatic" and think for themselves: many blessings to you guys
<br />What do you make out of this then, Sarahli?<br /><br />"Fortunately, if someone starts to oppose this truth now, there is still a little time left to get back on the right side, before it’s too late. However, opposition usually works like a very powerful inertia; once someone starts opposing something, it is very difficult to change directions later. So be extremely careful before you decide to oppose this message, or saying anything that would prejudice others against it."<br /><br />"If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”<br /><br />"faith that will conquer Lucifer and all who take sides with him"<br />
<br /><br />
on 1327253108:
<br />To me sounds like either believe or go to feed the maggots.<br /><br />I believe in what I want to and that does not mean to be against Michael or not on his side.<br /><br />Michael was a man respecting all faiths and beliefs and to not believe in something is also a belief, so why would Michael be so unrespectfull to the ones who decide not to be a part of it? What´s all that condition about?<br /><br />Nah, i don´t buy it. I support Michael as a person and that post of TS has nothing to do with it.<br />
<br /><br />Well I have my own beliefs as well, I'm muslim and believe in what's written in the Quran so I take this into consideration, I am not going to throw it off, that's not the point here at all. Front quoted and referred to the Qu'ran in his post about the Exodus Route, which TS validated by redirecting the same picture that Front posted, so it's really not excluding anyone. I think we need to take this more figuratively than literally and not make it so complex.<br /><br />Concerning choosing a side I can just say that you are free to believe it or not, no one can force you to believe and I respect your choice. Do you remember the Vision's thread? And how I said that I wanted to talk about religion because I felt that in the core of my being it is important to have faith in God? I think it's just the same with Michael, when you have this deep faith it's a part of your life. <br /><br />Also, perhaps this is a “test” to see if we can distinguish the “true from the fake” (Ark). I think this correlates to the Hoax in the sense of “real” MJ vs “fake” death/hoax/MJ (the corpse, autopsy photo, recordings, etc.) <br /><br />I think TS is saying not to be too quick to dismiss things without careful study, to carefully weigh up the information presented. Yes to really think for yourself.<br /><br />My understanding of the true Ark so far is a simple faith in God/Good and what Michael stands for, hence Front’s words:<br /><br />“ "If you're not a religious person…it matters not! <br />If you think Front is Mickey Mouse…it matters not!<br />If you're a religious person, have faith in God.<br />If you're not, then have faith in Michael.”<br /><br />Again Lucifer to me simply represents TBTB in the world, those who rule by ignorance and selfish motives for their own gain and “they don’t really care about us”. <br /><br />Regarding not choosing which side you are on in this figurative battle of Armageddon, then it's possible that one will get caught up in the whirlwind of what represents the darker forces in our world. So it's important in my opinion to not be too quick to judge here, and to at least take time to read and investigate what's being presented, we might need this in the near future. <br /><br />@ Bec thanks for your answer.
@MissG...thank you so much for your replies and I truly mean that. I honestly enjoy reading different perspectives, especially those that differ completely from my own...as long as they are stated in a respectful way. And although you are STRONGLY opposing TS, I 'sense' that your 'intentions' come from a genuine concern for others and I appreciate that. Thank you.<br /><br />Prior to June 25th, 2009, this would've been a 'snapshot' of what I 'believed' in/followed:<br /><br />- a belief in God (I have held this belief since I was a child and even in my 'toughest' moments of faith (and there have been plenty)...this belief was never eliminated<br />- a 'distrust'/caution for 'religion' and/or ANY man-made 'group' claiming to have ALL the answers (although born and raised in a Roman Catholic environment....I 'de-labeled' myself from ANY 'religion' many, many years prior to 2009)<br />- an 'uncertainty' in the 'intent' behind the Bible (because of my 'distrust' in 'man'...and knowing that 'man' (even if just physically) actually wrote the Bible....I have always 'questioned' the 'intent' of those who actually wrote it)<br />- my belief in God (again, prior to 2009)...superseded ANY man-made 'object' (i.e. I've never 'needed' the Bible to sustain my 'faith' or belief in God)<br />- I studied MANY different perspectives apart from the one I was born and raised in (and actually, at one of the lowest points in my life....it was Buddhist teachings that pulled me out of my 'abyss'---my belief in God allows me to believe that is was HIM who 'guided' me to what HE knew would help me----however, at NO point did I consider myself a 'Buddhist' nor did I affliate myself with that or any other religion)<br />- I KNEW, deep in my soul, from the age of 5 onwards...that Michael was a very 'special' soul with a very 'special' purpose (I believe we ALL have a purpose and we all have a soul....but history has shown that certain 'souls' have much higher 'purposes' than others)<br />- I SAW parallels of Mike's life with those of Jesus' life (as well as other 'prophets' lives) and was often amazed how others didn't or couldn't SEE them<br />- I believed, based on my OWN research, experiences, and observations, that THIS world cannot and will NOT continue to exist unless many changes are made dealing specifically with 'human consciousness' (treating ANY finite 'thing' as if it is 'infinite' is NOT sustainable)<br />- I have always welcomed different points of view and have ALWAYS been able to 'entertain' ANY view(s) WITHOUT incorporating them wholly, or in part, into my OWN perspective (i.e. just because I am open to 'listening' doesn't mean I am open to blindly believing everything I listen to)<br /><br />Of course, I had many other beliefs covering many different topics....but those are a 'snapshot' of some. The reason I've chosen to share those is because A LOT of what you are 'suggesting' is that people have 'changed' their beliefs simply due to TS and/or Front. And I can tell you with 100% accuracy that you are categorically WRONG in your assessment of at least ONE person...me. NONE of the beliefs I listed that I had prior to 2009 (prior to MJ's 'death', prior to TS or Front) have changed in ANY way. My belief in God hasn't, my 'distrust' of the 'intent' of the Bible hasn't nor has my 'distrust'/caution of ANYTHING man-made, my choice to NOT belong to any religious 'organization' hasn't changed nor will it. The ONLY things that have changed are 1) my knowledge about several different topics has grown since 2009 (some due to TS, some due to nothing hoax-related, some due to members here, etc)...and 2) I am more sure than ever that Mike truly had/has a very 'special' and unique purpose and always has. But then again, I 'felt' that/knew that prior to his 'death' and most definitely, prior to TS.<br /><br />The FACT that you are 100% wrong in your interpretation/assumptions regarding 'me' as a member here and how I'm 'affected' by TS....leaves the door wide open on the possibility that you are also wrong about many others here as well. Those who are 'weak', as you described them, have issues or problems that extend WAY beyond TS or anyone else who posts here. Based on the many posts I've read here by MANY members...I honestly think that you are greatly UNDER-estimating the intelligence of most.<br /><br />The quote that you've mentioned a few times from TS' post....that YOU have interpreted as being an 'indoctrination' of some sort (i.e. about choosing sides)...is NOT something that TS pulled out of his ass, nor is it 'news' to me or ANYONE who has at least a 'working knowledge' of the Bible. TS is simply stating what has been 'common knowledge' (for centuries) to many who read, understand and follow the Bible...and that would INCLUDE Mike. You, I and/or anyone else don't HAVE to believe what TS says in that quote to be 'truth'...but to insinuate or suggest that TS is the 'author' or 'creator' of the sentiments in that quote, is just as wrong as insinuating or suggesting that people aren't able to 'think for themselves'.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
Sometimes one has to take the coat of another character and "overdo" to make things clear.<br />Usually, only artists and jokesters are allowed to do so without getting their head guillotinized - on order of those they have been addressing in their play. Interestingly, both professions do serve opposite target audiences: for the sake of an assumed or real artistic "deeper" meaning of whatever kind and for the sake of pure flat entertainment to keep TPTB in a good mood.<br />Exhibiting what it could be about and by processing a decision duty could lead to "pre"-anticipating (rehearsing) of posterior situations and potential conflicts, tasks and decision opportunities (and sharpen our eyes for the fakers and liars of all kind that will be popping up as legions). <br /><br />I remember how we would get trained in school discussions by taking on different roles - to prepare ourselves for future environments - and by discussing for the sake of discussing and not for the sake of the topic.<br />Level 7 is not finished yet. Should we apply the learned-so-far structures and explorative strategies to other topics in order to strengthen our abilities? I'd say yes. <br />Apply whatever is useful to go explore the earth disk and find out about the globe.<br />Biblical and religious discussions are usually endless. The best training camp for faith, trust, tolerance, love.<br /><br />Blessings. <br />T.H.I.N.K. Be faithful, trust yourself. L.O.V.E.
<br />[...] I think we need to take this [size=14pt]more figuratively than literally[/size] and not make it so complex.<br /><br />[...]<br /><br />Also, perhaps this is a “test” to see if we can distinguish the “true from the fake” (Ark). I think[size=12pt] this correlates to the Hoax in the sense of “real” MJ vs “fake” death/hoax/MJ [/size](the corpse, autopsy photo, recordings, etc.) <br /><br />I think TS is saying not to be too quick to dismiss things without careful study, to carefully weigh up the information presented. Yes to [size=12pt]really think for yourself.[/size]<br /><br />[...]<br />Again[size=12pt]Lucifer to me simply represents TBTB in the world[/size], those who rule by ignorance and selfish motives for their own gain and “they don’t really care about us”. <br /><br />Regarding not choosing which side you are on in this figurative battle of Armageddon, then it's possible that one will get caught up in [size=12pt]the whirlwind of what represents the darker forces in our world. So it's important in my opinion to not be too quick to judge here, and to at least take time to read and investigate[/size] what's being presented, we might need this in the near future.
<br />At the end of his post he says something like, if you are neutral you will be considered to be on Satan's side. I think.
As I said in a previous message, I am being neutral for the moment regarding TS post! until I can analyze, check, research everything. <br />Plus, the statement you are referring at, has nothing to do with what people think about TS posts. At least this is my opinion. It has more to do with having faith in God.<br /><br />
<br /><br />I should have specified neutral to 'God' not 'TS'. I read it (The Sign's post) that you have to have faith in God to be saved.
<br />[...]<br />The FACT that you are 100% wrong in your interpretation/assumptions regarding 'me' as a member here and how I'm 'affected' by TS....leaves the door wide open on [size=12pt]the possibility that you are also wrong about many others here as well.[/size] Those who are 'weak', as you described them, have issues or problems that extend WAY beyond TS or anyone else who posts here. Based on the many posts I've read here by MANY members...[size=12pt]I honestly think that you are greatly UNDER-estimating the intelligence of most.[/size]<br /><br />The quote that you've mentioned a few times from TS' post....that YOU have interpreted as being an 'indoctrination' of some sort (i.e. about choosing sides)...is NOT something that TS pulled out of his ass, nor is it 'news' to me or ANYONE who has at least a 'working knowledge' of the Bible. TS is simply stating what has been 'common knowledge' (for centuries) to many who read, understand and follow the Bible...and that would INCLUDE Mike. You, I and/or anyone else don't HAVE to believe what TS says in that quote to be 'truth'...[size=12pt]but to insinuate or suggest that TS is the 'author' or 'creator' of the sentiments in that quote, is just as wrong as insinuating or suggesting that people aren't able to 'think for themselves'.[/size]
I LOVE you BTC!!! Thank you for speaking out my heart!! bearhug<br /><br /><br />
on 1327255928:
The quote that you've mentioned a few times from TS' post....that YOU have interpreted as being an 'indoctrination' of some sort (i.e. about choosing sides)...is NOT something that TS pulled out of his ass, [...]
Quote from: bec on Today at 06:32:23 PM<br /><br />
I don't think this TS is the same TS we have been dealing with for the past 2.5 years. I don't know how or why that would be, but I have a suspicion that this is not the same person that posted the Updates and then later the Levels.
<br /><br />It could be. <br />I am confused on a lot of things. <br />Yet, as much as I try to convince myself that TS has nothing to do with Michael Jackson, I just can not do this.<br /><br />Sometimes I think TS is somebody who "hijacked" MJ's "philosophy" after 2009 to use it for a hidden agenda.<br />Yet I am not sure of this and I hate my indecision. If TS hijacked the hoax for him/herself, he/she used so well MJ's religious points that it is difficult for me to discern the truth from the lie.<br />TS is totally in the line with the image I have about Michael, that's why I can't totally reject TS, because I'm thinking what if TS is really MJ and I am just unable to see it clear?<br />
Wow, is the best word i can find to describe my feelings right now. <br /><br />When I came to this forum it was because I was depressed and my heart was broken and I was truly conflicted about whether or not Michael Jackson had been murdered by NWO with the help of some of his inside handlers or if the plan had been thwarted and he had escaped, because I certainy was not buyng that he just suddenly “died’ of a heart attack :roll:. <br /><br />This place was a blessing for me, because on the other forums any mention of a different realtity got you thrown out or so shunned that you simply left. So I found this forum where people were actively demonstrating some of the most amazing investigative skills I had ever seen. Michael Jackson lives! I was in heaven, hooked. So this place became my home away from home and no other forun on the net mattered. <br /><br />My belief has not changed. I still have my own theory of why Michael left and nothing anyone has said here will change that, though I am always open to hear other truths, because I believe that each man has the right to his own. I have always believed since Michael was a little tyke that he was a messenger sent from God. That will NEVER change. And I do believe that much of his work, even many years before June 2009, had to do with spiritual awakening. However, I cannot grasp the theory that he did this just to send a message. It is my belief that he could have done that very well without “dying”. <br /><br />When the 0-2 concerts were announced, it was a great surprise to me because I thought he would NEVER tour again, though in the back of my mind I always held a sliver of hope that he would. Truth is that I had accepted that Michael Jackson had gone on with his life quietly. With that in mind, it would have been just as great a comeback if he had simply announced to the world that while on sabitical, away from the public arena, that he'd had a change of heart and that his career had taken on a different path. I don’t know about you, but with that, I would have followed where ever he led. I believe many if not all of his fans would have. Why? Because we believe in him and he had never led us astray. That is why I do not feel he would have abruptly just left us in the middle of the dance :? had it not been for other, more unavoidable reasons. I simply don’t feel it in my soul that he left on his own accord, but that circumstances beyond anyone’s control made it a necessity. <br /><br />As far as this conversation is concerned, I am not comfortable with making any judgement calls on anyone’s beliefs. That is not my way. All I can say with 100% certainty is that I have always been a skeptic, even with the Bible. I believe that the Bible is a great book that is written from historical recall; and recall most times equates to how it was seen through the eyes of the author, and could differ considerably when told through the eyes of someone else. Therefore, it too has its faults and some things about it I question even to this day. The overall book, when taken in totality is the greatest story ever told offering hope and encouragement and reason to live our lives as decent, moral beings because at its end there is a fulfillment or a promise of better things to come. That alone in my opinion relishes it a book worth reading with an open mind.<br /><br />I believe there is a higher power that guides us, unforeseen. And it gives me great comfort to believe this. Thus, I follow its guide as best I can. In that vein, I go to the verse that says that there shall be no other Gods before me, the first of the 10 commandments. Therefore I don’t idolize or put anyone on a pedastal. Never have and never will. To thine own self be true, a Shakesperean quote, which in my life’s litany is also worthy of its own praise. Follow your own heart. It’s the only one that sustains you. In a conscious decision to do that, there’s no need to prove that another person is right or wrong in their beliefs. It’s futile. <br /><br />If to some Michael is the ArchAngel, nothing is going to change that for them. If Michael’s disappearance from the face of the earth is because he planned it years ago, that too is a truth. There are so many ifs, and, or buts, but only one truth that matters and that truth is your own. <br /><br />If Michael is to be re-born as the new son of God, then it will come to pass. However, I cannot be convinced to take that at face value no matter how it is proposed. That is something I’ll just have to wait and see. And since this is the theory that has garnered the most acclaim, taken on its own personality, I must bid a fond farewell to you. The investigation has taken a very different perspective from that which captivated me initially. <br /><br />This is not to say that i will not still read the posts here, only that I have nothing more to offer at this time. Who knows, perhaps later I will. Hope floats /white flag/<br /><br />I pray with all that is in me that Michael Jackson is indeed safe, and well, and thriving. I hope that he will come back to the world and will be renowned and recognized for the good man that he has always been. And above all, I hope that I have not believed in vain because that would really be the death of me. Michael was and is a special human being. He will always be magic. His love will always outshine any hatred perpetrated against him. I wish him a life filled with everything his heart desires. He deserves that and so much more.<br /><br />God be with us all; who ever he, she, or it may be. There will be trying days ahead. I hope we make it.<br /><br /><br /><br />
Hello again.<br />Thank you for all of your advices. <br />And..yes since 2009 I've been analyzing everything so I am not that new in this.<br />I didn't want you to tell me if to trust or not TS (because that's def. a personal choice), no I simply wanted your opinion on it..thanks anyway for trying to help.<br /><br />About the theories-I have read SOME of TS' posts. To ME some make sense , some don't.<br />I was interested more in the psychological part of this story.<br />:-) much love&<br />Keep the investigation on!
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