Then my question is: What will we gain from living a legalistic life? Remember, that is exactly what the Pharisees did! And what did Jesus call the Pharisees?<br />“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?” – Matt 23:33<br /><br />There is a BIG difference between living your life out of LOVE (I am forgiven, grace) and FEAR (I got to keep his commandments or else…)
<br /><br />Yes you make a good point. Remember Maria Magdalena. It's true she repented later but her life was far from being "legal" before.<br />Anyway, none of us can live in perfect purity, following all the rules. <br />Most of us here are not honest about why we are here. For MJ we say...yes for MJ but the true reasons "why for MJ" - we don't dare to admit not even when we are alone with ourselves. <br /><br />If keeping "pure" means becoming some sort of robots executing a routine just because they were programed that way....I really don't know if I want that. I don't know, I am not sure but I think God loves us enough to save us in spite of our imperfections. Love God and each other is the highest command and maybe if we have love in our souls it will be enough in the end.<br /><br />edit: now that I think about it:<br />The Old Testament tells us to fear God<br />The New Testament tells us to love God<br /><br />That's the big difference. And let's not forget the worst sinner can be saved by God when least expected, like the criminal who was with MJ Jesus on the cross on Golgota.<br /><br />Luke 23:39-43<br /><br />New International Version (NIV)<br /><br /> 39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”<br /><br /> 40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”<br /><br /> 42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”<br /><br /> 43 Jesus answered him, [size=14pt]“Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”[/size] <br /><br /><br /><br />What a gift!!!I must say Jesus rocked ...if I may say so.<br /><br />
My grandfather didn't go to church too much....he told me when I was a child: the church is in a man's heart.<br />I agree with him.<br />He also served in full the 4 years of the second world war and he used to tell me his story...he was newly married when the war started...those days the young men had to serve in the army for 3 years. When the 3 years were over the war started, so he was away from home for 7 years...can you imagine that?? sometimes I wonder what kind of material our grandparents were made of, to go through that hell and survive....<br />And he told me that before the final fight he was in, a fight mentioned in our history books as a true massacre, he prayed to God to give him an easy wound to be sent home........and believe it or not - that exact thing happened. He was hit by a bullet in that metal cap they had, he fainted and ended into the hospital and then he was sent home a few months before the war ended.<br /><br />I don't know why I felt like telling this story...it just impressed me how God gave him what he prayed for.
chose to accept christ gift and you will not be judge according to the law.<br />don't chose him you will be judged by the law which is impossible to keep.<br />just the way i understand it.<br /><br />you know when someone started the thread examining something we have gone over before in a new way , including the religion factor , it occured to me that we need to look at murrays trial again with that same pair of glasses on.
Thank you for the beautiful story Gina bearhug<br /><br />I agree that it is impossible for us to not sin or at least near impossible. I believe it is more about loving God and accepting him into your heart. I just can't imagine that murderers can be saved and brought into heaven but someone who does not recognize the Sabbath isn't.
@ Souza<br /><br />As I understand it, you think that it is imperative (from the studies you have made) to keep the Sabbath even in the new covenant?<br /><br />Do you believe this is a matter of “heaven or hell” or just that it is something that we ought to remember?<br /><br />Have you talked to your bible teacher about this subject?<br /><br />With the love bearhug
[size=12pt]The Mark of the Beast LAW: WOAH! Thank you for posting this info Im_convincedmjalive!! That’s the info I was wondering about when I posted on the other forum asking TS to clarify. The mark of the beast IS NOT A RFID Chip!!!! It’s Sunday worship! All that BS circulating about that RFID Chip being the mark of the beast is propaganda that has been spread by the Jesuits.[/size]
<br /><br /><br />Like PaulaC in this thread and many others in the past already posted:<br /><br /><br />
[size=12pt]Revelation 13:16-18<br /><br />New International Version (NIV)<br /><br /> 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 [size=14pt]so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark[/size], which is the name of the beast or the number of its name. <br /> 18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[a] That number is 666.[/size]
<br /><br /><br />I'm being honest here, I have little to none knowlegde of the bible (so I can't discuss with you on that), doesn't mean that I don't believe in God and I try to live my life as good as possible. Now tell me, after you read about the RFID chip and that law on that has passed already, AND after reading Revelation 13: 16-18, that it could NOT be about the chip?? <br />We live in the 21 century, we have a 24/7 economy, many professions have to be exercised every day of the week. <br />We must be aware what is ahead of us, not what was common many many many years ago. You can't turn it back anymore I'm afraid.<br />A few members said this also (Gina and Michaelsangel among them), I don't think God will punish us when we don't live by a Sunday Law, but I do think we will be 'punished' through the 'elite' by accepting the chip. Darn, I'm having a hard time making myself clear on this!
I, too, had been leaning towards the 'mark' being some sort of chip that would be mandated (made law)...but I've been reading up on different interpretations and came across this website that (for me) explained things really clearly. I'm only going to post the section where they talk about the 'mark' possibly being a chip (which they disagree with)...but I've read every page on the website and I'm now seeing how the 'mark' could very well be about following the Roman Catholic Church (which includes making SUNday the Sabbath---one of God's laws that they have changed and which the Bible clearly states NO MAN is above God or His laws). For those interested, they go into detail about the history of the church, of 666, of SUNday worship, the Papalcy (which they interpret as 'the beast'), etc. VERY interesting stuff.<br /><br />I'm still unsure about God's 'wrath' or the extent of it for those who DO have faith in Him but have been or will be somehow deceived in getting the 'mark of the beast' (which I agree is a symbolic mark). There are just so many Bible verses that point to God's grace, forgiveness, mercy and love....the most prominent being Jesus having died for our sins (which I'd think would include 'falling for' the mark or not keeping the Sabbath). But then there are verses that are clear on breaking just ONE of the 10 'laws' resulting in having broken all ten in His eyes. It's just so contradictory....God's wrath versus His grace, forgiveness, love, etc....that I'm confused by the whole thing. Or maybe I'm just making it more difficult than it needs to be :?<br /><br />Anyhow...here's the part about the chip but I would recommend reading the other pages on the site as well:<br /><br />
<br />Is the Mark of the Beast Technology?We just read how Revelation 19:20 says, “He deceived them that had received the mark of the beast” so we know that 666 and the mark of the beast has to involve some sort of subtle deception or be something we are already deceived on. If the mark was some form of technology that the entire world already seems to think is the obvious answer, then how could almost the entire world be misled? Jesus warned us that Satan’s deceptions are so deceptive they can “deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Matthew 24:24.<br /><br />Microchip Technology - Biochip, Verichip or Barcode etc?<br />How deceptive would it be for someone to command everyone to accept a computerized microchip in their forehead or hands? The Bible does not specifically say it will be a microchip such as a “miniature biochip or verichip” or that it will even involve any form of technology. These modern words, “biochip,” “verichip,” “bar code,” “computer” and “technology” do not appear in Revelation. People just assume that it will happen this way but it is nothing but pure speculation. How many people do you know that would accept the government implanting microchip technology inside their heads?<br /><br />The King James Bible is partially to blame for some thinking it is a chip implant as Revelation 13:16; 14:9 and 20:4 have incorrectly translated the Greek word “Epi” as “in” instead of “on” or “upon.” The KJV Bible is correct only once in Revelation 20:4 where it says, “upon their foreheads.” Thus the correct translation of all these verses is “on” or “upon” the hand or forehead and not in.<br /><br />Most also seem to overlook the mark of God that also goes on our forehead. What factors define those who get the seal or mark of God on their forehead versus those who get the mark of the beast? And what is God’s mark? Is it going to be a tattoo, barcode or microchip? I think most would agree that the seal of God is symbolic and is not literal and therefore stands to reason that the same symbology also applies to the mark of the beast since they are in competition to each other. You cannot get both as you either receive the mark of God or the mark of the Beast. See Revelation 7:3 and Revelation 9:4.<br /><br />We know Satan counterfeits most things of God and the mark of the Beast is the counterfeit to the mark of God. For instance, there is the true gift of tongues and a counterfeit speaking in tongues. Establishing what God’s mark is will point you to what the counterfeit is. How could technology be a counterfeit to the Seal of God? Is God into technology such as microchips etc?<br /><br />2 Peter 1:20 says, “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”<br /><br />Bearing in mind that the Bible has no reasonable reference to microchips or other technology, so this can only be considered as “private interpretation” and is neither allowed nor necessary. This would also be considered as adding to the book of Revelation, which also carries an extremely severe warning.<br /><br />Revelation 22:18-19 “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”<br /><br />Why do some think the Mark of the Beast is Technology?<br />The speculation that 666 or the mark of the beast is technology originated from error as those responsible did not even notice that 666 and the MARK are two separate symbols. Even today most still assume that 666 is the mark of the beast because they do not carefully read what the Bible does say. So when barcodes first appeared, some bright spark figured that those enforcing the mark were going to hide 666 in a barcode and so paranoia ensued. Of course this was based on incorrect knowledge of the Word anyway as 666 is NOT the mark! The technology theory has just snowballed from there and has continued to gain momentum over time. Further speculation comes from the following verse but where does this verse state in any way that it will be microchips or technology? As you can see, it does not.<br /><br />Revelation 13:17 “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, OR the name of the beast, OR the number of his name.”<br /><br />Technology cannot be the Mark of the Beast<br />It was assumed that if one cannot buy or sell then it must be controlled by some form of technology, and while Satan could use this to play a deceptive role, it is not 666 or the mark of the beast. Look at the above passage very closely. Note it says that you cannot buy or sell unless you have the MARK or the NAME or the NUMBER of his name. If the MARK was a computer chip and you did not have the MARK but you had the NAME or the NUMBER, you would still be able to buy and sell and yet you would not have the MARK. So what good would it be if the mark of the beast was technology? None whatsoever!<br /><br />So technology being the mark of the beast is found to be impossible and does not fit the context of the passages on the mark or the entire Bible. So careful exegesis on what the Bible does say ends another unbiblical assumption. We must follow the Bible alone and strive to be like the Berean Christians who read the Word daily to see if what they were told was true. (Acts 17:11)<br /><br />Note that the mark of the beast must be something that is a free will decision as one would not receive the full wrath of God for something that was forced upon you. Why would God pour out His most fiercest wrath upon you based on an implanted microchip anyway, which could be forced? Some claim because the mark of the beast is the mark of the devil but even if this were true, the free will issue remains the same. When we cover the origins of 666 later, you will be left with no doubt about it not being technology.<br />
<br />Some say we keep Sunday instead of Sabbath because Jesus raised from the dead on a Sunday.<br />
<br /><br />Yes, but that's totally made up hundreds of years later and nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say we should observe Sunday to remember his resurrection. Actually, Jesus raised from the dead on Sunday, because he RESTED on the Sabbath, even AFTER the cross, which is another indication that the Sabbath was not done away with by Jesus´ death.<br />
<br /><br />Actually, and not meaning to start anything, it DOES mention Sunday gathering (breaking bread aka communion/sacrament) in Acts 20:7<br /><br />
"And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight,"
<br /><br />People have been meeting on Sundays since the days of the apostles (shortly after Jesus ascended into Heaven). The reason people did that, was because Jesus has resurrected on a Sunday and they were doing it in honor of him.<br /><br />But I do agree with you that the Sabbath day was NOT done away with, unlike what some believe.
I agree that it is impossible for us to not sin or at least near impossible. I believe it is more about loving God and accepting him into your heart. I just can't imagine that murderers can be saved and brought into heaven but someone who does not recognize the Sabbath isn't.
<br /><br />Ginafelicia<br />
That's the big difference. And let's not forget the worst sinner can be saved by God when least expected, like the criminal who was withMJ Jesus on the cross on Golgota.
Jono<br />
There is a BIGdifference between living your life out of LOVE (I am forgiven, grace) and FEAR (I got to keep his commandments or else…). If we live our lives out of LOVE we will keep his commandments:
<br /><br />I have grown up all my life in an passionate evangelical Christian home. I know the difference in my heart between living under the fear of myself and others not quite pleasing God enough, and knowing that His love is unconditional as a true father's would be. Despite all the talk of "grace" and "free gift", there was always generous helpings of legalism and judgement of others, a certain arrogance of superiority for believing a certain way. "We must save those damned to hell, and tell the majority who are believing WRONG, the right way--our way." The words, "their blood be upon our heads", always encourages this guilt over expending all of the focus on winning the lost, to save them from hell and God's wrath. In all my years I would easily say that most Christians are the most judgmental people, though they claim to be loving--it is veiled. <br /><br />It is because of all this that I chose to go deeper into the things of God, to find that there is indeed an over-arching bigger picture that God has in mind for humanity, and it is a mirror that shows us who we are. <br /><br />Does anyone here remember seeing these puzzles where you stare at them with your eyes kinda focused a little more distant, and if you look at it right, another super-imposed picture jumps out at you almost 3D? That's exactly the case with the Bible! IMO! God has planned out the entire story of his dealings with mankind in the Old and New Testaments as a pre-ordained script. We can now see the results of legalism--impossible to obey completely and we are miserable. We can see the results of loving forgiveness/grace--we perhaps take too much liberty and grow wild/taking things for granted. HIStory is necessary to show us ourselves. As I searched I discovered these over-arching themes of the restitution of all things--that God would save ALL people--give them all faith, for we don't even know how to choose wisely. We are all like sheep/foolish children. But whether it's a chip or Sunday mark of the beast, no one (and I mean no one) will have everything figured out totally and may end up believing the wrong things at times. And that's how I think God has set things up, similarly to this hoax. MJ wants to keep us on the edge of our seats for this drama of all dramas.<br /><br />Therefore, my view is that both the chip and Sunday law (or something still unknown) could be the mark intertwined.<br /><br /><br />About the Catholic church. It was not started by supposedly Simon Peter, the disciple of Jesus, but a Samaritan (claimed to be Jews but were Gentiles) called Simon Magus mentioned in Acts. Peter the first Pope is one of so many, many lies the world has accepted, and many more we are hardly aware of.<br /><br />
<br />The great false church system of Rome had its beginning in the day of the apostles of Christ. Unfortunately, this conflict did not go its separate way but mixed in to one religious system. This is why there are so many pagan ideas and doctrines in the Rome Catholic Church. Some crept in over time but many were there from the very beginning. The first conflict between early Christianity and false religion of paganism was recorded in the book of Acts, Chapter 8. This quarrel happened between a pagan high priest named Simon Magus and the apostles Peter and Philip. We first hear of Simon Magnus in Acts Chapter 8, verse 9-25<br />Verse 9: But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used<br />Sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:<br />10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.<br />11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
<br /><br />
Notice the points Luke places clearly before us.
<br /> [li]
Simon was a Samaritan, not a Jew -- (Acts 8:9). Remember that the Bible tells us salvation was of the Jews -- not of the Samaritans (John 4:22).[/li]<br /> [li]Simon Magus greatly used demonistic powers to do miracles and wonders (Acts 8:9).[/li]<br /> [li]The whole population of Samaria (both small and great) gave heed to him (Verse 10). He was looked on as the greatest prophet -- all SamaritBELIEVEDIVED IN HIM![/li]<br /> [li]The Samaritans WORSHIPPED him as "the Great One" -- a god. "This man is that power of God called Great [that is the Almighty]" (RSV. Verse 10).[/li]<br /> [li]Imagine it! They called him god in the flesh!<br />Luke is also careful to inform us that Simon had become firmly established in Samaria as "the Great One" and had practiced his powers " for a long time" (Verse 11)[/li]<br /> [li]Luke wants us to understand that he nominally became a Christian ("Simon himself believed") and was baptized -- that is, he physically, outwardly "entered" the Christian Church (Verse 13).[/li]<br /> [li]Simon even recognized that Christ’s power was greater than his but wanted to be associated with that great name (Verse 13).[/li]<br /> [li]Simon, seeing the potential of the Christian religion waited until the authorities, Peter and John, came to Samaria and then offered to pay them money to OBTAIN AN APOSTLESHIP IN THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH (Verses 18-21).[/l][/l]
I think we are coming from this a little backwards. Maybe a parable will help! ;D<br /><br />There once was a girl named Wendy. She grew up with two loving parents. They only wanted the best for her and she knew that. She knew that they would die for her. They had an amazing relationship. They asked her to clean her room every Sunday and she did. She never asked to do it Saturday, she just did it because she loved them and they asked her to.<br /><br />As Wendy got older, she started hanging out with friends that didn’t have that same kind of relationship that she had with her parents. They used to tease Wendy because she actually listened to her parents and followed their rules. “You’re so goody-goody” they would say. “Just tell your parents you’re sleeping over at my house and we’ll go to the party” they would urge.<br /><br />“But that would be lying! I don’t want to lie to my parents” Wendy tried in vain to explain.<br />One day, Wendy started thinking of herself and her rights! “Why do I have to listen to these rules?” So she went to a party, got very drunk, went into a car with a young man who was also drinking that she didn’t know who offered to drive her home…. <br /><br />Well you can imagine what COULD have happened…. Rape…. Car accident…. By the grace of God none of that happened.<br /><br />Bottomline, what I’m trying to show you here is it has not as much to do with the rules (if she should have gone to a party or not, if she should have cleaned her room on Sundays or if Saturdays would have been fine) but more to do with her relationship with her parents. She followed the rules set out for her because of her love for her parents and her TRUST that they had her back.<br /><br />One thing I am studying now, among 77 other things, is surrender and faithtrust.<br /><br />Jesus died on the cross for me. God loves me more than I can even comprehend. He wants the best for me. I don’t always understand His ways because trying to understand with the limited human mind that which is limitless is not possible. For this I am eternally grateful and I love Him.<br /><br />That’s why I do my best to surrender my life to Him. Do I do this perfectly? Nope! I fail A LOT!!! However, He knows my heart and that I am doing my BEST to give Him my life to do with as He will. Beside I am not striving for perfection for no person is perfect, I am striving for excellence and I know God wants the same for me.<br /><br />So I think this is more a question of do you TRUST God to steer you right? Are you willing to SURRENDER your life to Him and His ways (without question)?<br /><br />SURRENDER<br /><br /><br /><br />TRUST<br /><br /><br /><br />Love you guys…. Thanks for being on this journey with me!<br />
One of the most common claims against a microchip implant is that the Mark of the Beast is supposed to be "on" the hand or forehead and not "in" the hand or forehead. Do Revelation 13:16, Revelation 14:9-10, and Revelation 20:4 refer to a mark in the body or on the body?<br /><br />The overwhelming majority of available translations opt for on. In fact, all modern versions use on. In contrast, all early versions from 1380 to 1833 side with in. That includes Wycliffe's Bible (1380), Tyndale's (1525), Coverdale's (1535), The Bishop's Bible (1568), The Geneva Bible (1587), the much beloved King James Version (1611), Wesley's Bible (1755), and finally Webster's Bible (1883). It wasn't until Darby's Bible in 1890 that doubt was cast against in.<br /><br />It's not easy to discard the work of early Christian martyrs, or the 54 scholars that painstakingly translated the KJV by committee [1], as well as the work of the wordsmith Noah Webster, a man who single handedly wrote his own dictionary [2]. It would be foolish to write off such faith and dedication in favor of modern versions whose paid translators didn't have the foresight to see how "in" could actually make sense.<br /><br />According to Strong's Concordance [3], both "in" and "on" are valid translations of the Greek word epi . Epi's many definitions include "into", "in a place", and "among", all of which perfectly describe the placement of modern day RFID implants such as Applied Digital Solution's Verichip. The Verichip is easily injected "into" the body, "in a place" of the hand or forehead, and remains "among" the flesh.
<br />edit: now that I think about it:<br />The Old Testament tells us to fear God<br />The New Testament tells us to love God<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br /><br />I hate to be a nitpick, but for truth's sake I'll have to be: the old testament tells us to love him too. <br /><br /><br />
[size=14pt]Deuteronomy 10:12-13[/size] (NIV)<br /><br />[size=8pt]12[/size] [size=10pt]And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, [/size][size=8pt]13[/size] [size=10pt]and to observe the LORD’s commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?[/size]
<br /><br />MJonmind, that's a mighty interesting topic. I'm so going to dig into this. :geek:<br /><br />I appreciate all the different perspectives being shared, definitely gives me something to think about.<br /><br /><br />
Bottomline, what I’m trying to show you here is it has not as much to do with the rules (if she should have gone to a party or not, if she should have cleaned her room on Sundays or if Saturdays would have been fine) but more to do with her relationship with her parents. She followed the rules set out for her because of her love for her parents and her TRUST that they had her back.
And how do we keep the 10 commandments? Through FAITH! Remember, it is impossible for man to keep the meaning of the 10 commandments -> to be as perfect as God (please refer to my last posts).
<br /><br />Absolutely! That is why the Gospel is literally 'good news'! Because we are saved through Christ's righteousness through our faith and trust in Him. Not by anything we do, as Paul says to the Romans:<br /><br />
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
<br />http://bible.cc/romans/3-10.htm<br /><br />But...literally, The Good News is Jesus saved us by fulfilling the Law Himself and dying OUR DEATH as a Sacrifice for us:<br /><br />
But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
<br />http://bible.cc/ephesians/2-8.htm<br /><br />Therefore, the whole idea about the MoB being keeping a Saturday Sabbath would be that I need to be saved by faith PLUS keeping the Sabbath, which is not true. I am saved by GRACE alone--a gift from God--THE GOOD NEWS.<br /><br />
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one
<br />Romans 3:28-30<br /><br />And lilwendy had it right...some want to keep a Saturday Sabbath due to love for God, which is great. We should do it out of love for God, but not out of legalism. http://carm.org/are-we-saved-faith-alone-or-do-we-need-works-too<br /><br />Also, anyone interested should read about the Sabbath actually being the 7th millenium on earth, which is the Millenial Kingdom. As it was said, the Law is a foreshadowing of things to come: <br /><br />
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
<br />Hebrews 10:1-4<br /><br />With love bearhug<br />
In every good story there must be a protagonist or the villain, as well as the hero and his helpers who save the day. It's all about good versus evil, the theme of almost all books and movies. Sex is a major component, or driving factor in this story.<br /><br /><br />SimPattyK, yes, the telling the priests that they must remain celibate, is the setting up for sexual deviancy and sins. God has created us for pro-creation--we are hard-wired.<br /><br /><br />
The third of [color=rgb(11, 0, 128)]Newton's laws of motion[/color] of [color=rgb(11, 0, 128)]classical mechanics[/color] states that [color=rgb(11, 0, 128)]forces[/color] always occur in pairs. Every action is accompanied by a reaction of equal magnitude but opposite direction. This principle is commonly known in the [color=rgb(11, 0, 128)]Latin[/color] language as actio et reactio. The attribution of which of the two forces is action or reaction is arbitrary. Each of the two forces can be considered the action, the other force is its associated reaction.
<br /><br /><br />Every stone we throw in the pond creates ripples that move to the edges, and affect everything in their vicinity.<br /><br /><br />Michaelangelo after 1508, in the Sistine Chapel at the Vatican. What really was the "fruit"?<br /><br /><br />
For the record, based on studies I have done, I believe God has asked us to keep Friday sunset to Saturday sunset as the true Sabbath and that's what I keep out of love for Him.
<br /><br /><br /><br />..And already are also present in the credit and debit cards, in fact here is mandatory to have those cards with chip, ( banks say they are safer) suspicious// the other cards have stopped function the December 31.
If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”<br /><br />For those who choose Michael’s side, Michael Himself has made this amazing promise, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne …” (Revelation 3:21; see 22:1-5; 1 Samuel 2:7,8; Matthew 25:31; 20:21-23; Mark 10:37-40). Yes, Lucifer got kicked out of heaven for demanding a seat upon God’s throne; he failed the test of faith. But for those who pass the test of faith, Jesus will give them the very same thing which Lucifer demanded, and yet never received—the privilege to sit on God’s throne! This is not a message of fear, it’s a message of faith, a faith that will conquer Lucifer and all who take sides with him. This is what the final battle is all about; the battle where faith and only faith will win the victory and prize: to sit with God on His throne—this is the battle, the final battle, the battle of Armageddon!!!!!!!
Revelation 14:9-11 ...'And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.'<br /><br />The World has a choice to make, obey God or follow Satan<br /><br />Now, the first clue we have to the mark of the beast is found in the above verses in Revelation 14, and the very next verse after them ... Revelation 14:12 ...'Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.' ... So why do the saints not receive the mark of the beast? Because they keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. So here we can see that it is to do with God's law and following in Jesus footsteps. Notice one important thing, it doesn't say that the saints have faith IN Jesus, but they keep the faith OF Jesus, ie. they follow Him. Many Christians believe that the law of God has been done away with. Well, God disagrees with them, because He says that the only way NOT to receive the mark of the beast is to keep His Law.<br /><br />Revelation 13:16 ...'And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.' ... So those who get the mark of the beast, have it in their hand or forehead. That's interesting, because there are another group of people who receive a mark in their foreheads ... Revelation 14:1 ...'And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.' ... So in Revelation 13:16, we have the one group of people with the mark of the beast, and then the very next verse in Revelation 14:1, we have the other group of people with God's Name written in their foreheads. These two groups of people are the one's at the end time before Jesus Christ returns at the second coming. They are the saved (with God's Name) and the lost (with the mark of the beast). But will there be two groups of people at the end, walking around with actual physical stamps on their heads or hands? Or are these 'spiritual' marks?<br /><br />The mark of the beast is to do with breaking God's Law and choosing to obey man over God. But is the mark of the beast specifically to do with the Sabbath Commandment? Take a look at one of the three angels messages ... Revelation 14:6-7 ...'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.' ... This is the end time call to worship God who created heaven and earth. Look at the words that are being used, these are taken from the Sabbath Commandment ... Exodus 20:11 ...'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.' ... This issue of the mark of the beast and the seal of God is all to do with worship. Will we choose to worship God who created the heavens and the earth, and who set a special day aside for us to spend with Him? Or will we choose to obey man, who changed the law of God, and say NO! Keep my day instead!<br /><br />PLEASE REMEMBER! In Revelation 14:12 it confirms that those who don't receive the mark of the beast, are the ones who are keeping the Commandments of God and follow in Jesus' footsteps. Those who accept the gospel message, follow Jesus Christ, obey God and keep His Commandments will not receive the mark of the beast.<br /><br />Now remember where the mark of the beast is? In the hand or forehead? ... Exodus 20:8 ...'Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.' ... Where do we remember? In our foreheads (minds) ... Exodus 20:9-10 ...'Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work.' ... With what do we work? Our hands. Do you see this important truth? Those who receive the mark of the beast will go against God and His law. The Sabbath Commandment specifically deals with who we worship. Will you obey God and keep His Commandment, or will you obey the Roman Catholic Church and keep her commands? <br /><br />So many people are waiting for a physical mark to come along, and are ignoring the Bible truth. If the mark of the beast was an actual physical mark, then it would be easy to spot. But take a look at the following verse ... Revelation 19:20 ...'And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.' ... Those who received the mark of the beast were DECEIVED! The whole point about being deceived is that you don't know you were deceived. So the true mark of the beast is going to involve subtle deception, just like the Sabbath to Sunday issue. Most of the Christian world keep Sunday as Sabbath thinking it's ok to change God's Law. This is the subtle deception that the Papal Church of Rome have brought in. Satan doesn't want you to obey God, he wants you to obey him, and through the Roman Catholic Church he is doing just that.<br /><br />The number of the beast is 666. What is God's number? ... Genesis 2:2-3 ...'And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.' ... 777!<br /><br />During the very end time, when the mark of the beast is enforced by law around the world, after each person has chosen to accept and obey God, or accept and obey the Roman Catholic Church. God will then look into the hearts of everyone and consider each person to either have His name (seal) in their foreheads or the mark of the beast. Those who don't believe in Rome's enforced law, but go along with it because of economic pressure (buying and selling, Rev. 13), they will receive the mark of the beast in their right hand. Who will you choose to obey and worship?<br />
Revelation 13:17 “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, OR the name of the beast, OR the number of his name.”
See the 3 different things mentioned in this scripture? ^^1. Mark 2. Name 3. Number. <br /><br />MJonmind-Perhaps you assumed the mark of the beast was only about the sunday law but for me I had read many different opinions regarding the subject of the mark of the beast. I kept trying to hint towards other things being involved in this issue. I had already read the info/opinions on different websites regarding the RFID chip. I didn't write everything I had read. For example The Roman Catholic Church being considered The Beast System. Also many other members posted the info that I had learned about so no need for me to repeat that.<br /><br />BeTheChange-I had also found that website and read through that one. When I posted references I just chose the ones that for me were the easiest at the time to understand. I am glad you took the time to research for your own understanding.<br /><br />WhiteNight-You are welcome. I will be watching your videos. There is a whole pandoras box to be opened regarding the mark of the beast and yes the Vatican/Roman Catholic Church has everything to do with the mark of the beast. <br /><br />Here is another hint. I do not feel comfortable saying outright what I am talking about because it can be considered very scary. <br />
Some of the stuff I found out about within the last few days are in scripture in revelation 20:4-6, there is alot of info on the internet and youtube regarding the scripture being fulfilled.
<br /><br />P.S. I know I said I was done commenting on this subject but I just can't help myself sometimes...
Then, if you save the Sunday would be preparing to receive the mark of the Beast, and save the Sunday does not correspond to the true Christianity, because it is the mark of the Vatican.<br /><br /><br />
@jono<;br /><br />I have started my Bible with the EOW, because that is the subject most relevant at the moment and while looking into that, and watching videos, I noticed that the minority thought the Sunday law would be the mark of the beast. Since I believe that the minority is usually right, I looked further into that with common sense and the Bible as source, and to me it is clear as day that the Sabbath will be very important in the future and that it is the most forgotten and dismissed commandment of the ten, even though God said REMEMBER it. I am working out my complete study now but that might take a while because I have done studies with people who do NOT believe the Sabbath should still be kept and I want to go into all their comments. One thing I noticed is that they who do not think the Sabbath should still be kept, usually give vague answers or no answer at all, while those who do believe it should still be kept, have amazing scriptural evidence and are able to answer to all the excuses from the ones that don't believe. So I will refrain from commentening on the Sabbath issue until I have everything ready and I will show you why I (and I am not an SDA at all, had never heard of them even before I started to study this) I believe that the Sabbath is not something that should be dismissed.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
If you take the side of the true ark, then you are on Michael’s side of the Armageddon battle; if you chose to go against the true ark—or even if you take a position of neutral indifference—then you are on Lucifer’s side of Armageddon (see Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23). Nobody will be drafted to fight for the truth, it’s a volunteer army; but those who don’t voluntarily enlist on the side of truth, will be on the other side of the battle, whether they intend to or not. There will be only two sides. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”<br /><br />For those who choose Michael’s side, Michael Himself has made this amazing promise, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne …” (Revelation 3:21; see 22:1-5; 1 Samuel 2:7,8; Matthew 25:31; 20:21-23; Mark 10:37-40). Yes, Lucifer got kicked out of heaven for demanding a seat upon God’s throne; he failed the test of faith. But for those who pass the test of faith, Jesus will give them the very same thing which Lucifer demanded, and yet never received—the privilege to sit on God’s throne! This is not a message of fear, it’s a message of faith, a faith that will conquer Lucifer and all who take sides with him. This is what the final battle is all about; the battle where faith and only faith will win the victory and prize: to sit with God on His throne—this is the battle, the final battle, the battle of Armageddon!!!!!!!
Revelation 14:9-11 ...'And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.'<br /><br />The World has a choice to make, obey God or follow Satan<br /><br />Now, the first clue we have to the mark of the beast is found in the above verses in Revelation 14, and the very next verse after them ... Revelation 14:12 ...'Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.' ... So why do the saints not receive the mark of the beast? Because they keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. So here we can see that it is to do with God's law and following in Jesus footsteps. Notice one important thing, it doesn't say that the saints have faith IN Jesus, but they keep the faith OF Jesus, ie. they follow Him. Many Christians believe that the law of God has been done away with. Well, God disagrees with them, because He says that the only way NOT to receive the mark of the beast is to keep His Law.<br /><br />Revelation 13:16 ...'And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.' ... So those who get the mark of the beast, have it in their hand or forehead. That's interesting, because there are another group of people who receive a mark in their foreheads ... Revelation 14:1 ...'And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.' ... So in Revelation 13:16, we have the one group of people with the mark of the beast, and then the very next verse in Revelation 14:1, we have the other group of people with God's Name written in their foreheads. These two groups of people are the one's at the end time before Jesus Christ returns at the second coming. They are the saved (with God's Name) and the lost (with the mark of the beast). But will there be two groups of people at the end, walking around with actual physical stamps on their heads or hands? Or are these 'spiritual' marks?<br /><br />The mark of the beast is to do with breaking God's Law and choosing to obey man over God. But is the mark of the beast specifically to do with the Sabbath Commandment? Take a look at one of the three angels messages ... Revelation 14:6-7 ...'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.' ... This is the end time call to worship God who created heaven and earth. Look at the words that are being used, these are taken from the Sabbath Commandment ... Exodus 20:11 ...'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.' ... This issue of the mark of the beast and the seal of God is all to do with worship. Will we choose to worship God who created the heavens and the earth, and who set a special day aside for us to spend with Him? Or will we choose to obey man, who changed the law of God, and say NO! Keep my day instead!<br /><br />PLEASE REMEMBER! In Revelation 14:12 it confirms that those who don't receive the mark of the beast, are the ones who are keeping the Commandments of God and follow in Jesus' footsteps. Those who accept the gospel message, follow Jesus Christ, obey God and keep His Commandments will not receive the mark of the beast.<br /><br />Now remember where the mark of the beast is? In the hand or forehead? ... Exodus 20:8 ...'Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.' ... Where do we remember? In our foreheads (minds) ... Exodus 20:9-10 ...'Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work.' ... With what do we work? Our hands. Do you see this important truth? Those who receive the mark of the beast will go against God and His law. The Sabbath Commandment specifically deals with who we worship. Will you obey God and keep His Commandment, or will you obey the Roman Catholic Church and keep her commands? <br /><br />So many people are waiting for a physical mark to come along, and are ignoring the Bible truth. If the mark of the beast was an actual physical mark, then it would be easy to spot. But take a look at the following verse ... Revelation 19:20 ...'And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.' ... Those who received the mark of the beast were DECEIVED! The whole point about being deceived is that you don't know you were deceived. So the true mark of the beast is going to involve subtle deception, just like the Sabbath to Sunday issue. Most of the Christian world keep Sunday as Sabbath thinking it's ok to change God's Law. This is the subtle deception that the Papal Church of Rome have brought in. Satan doesn't want you to obey God, he wants you to obey him, and through the Roman Catholic Church he is doing just that.<br /><br />The number of the beast is 666. What is God's number? ... Genesis 2:2-3 ...'And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.' ... 777!<br /><br />During the very end time, when the mark of the beast is enforced by law around the world, after each person has chosen to accept and obey God, or accept and obey the Roman Catholic Church. God will then look into the hearts of everyone and consider each person to either have His name (seal) in their foreheads or the mark of the beast. Those who don't believe in Rome's enforced law, but go along with it because of economic pressure (buying and selling, Rev. 13), they will receive the mark of the beast in their right hand. Who will you choose to obey and worship?<br />
Revelation 13:17 “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, OR the name of the beast, OR the number of his name.”
See the 3 different things mentioned in this scripture? ^^1. Mark 2. Name 3. Number. <br /><br />MJonmind-Perhaps you assumed the mark of the beast was only about the sunday law but for me I had read many different opinions regarding the subject of the mark of the beast. I kept trying to hint towards other things being involved in this issue. I had already read the info/opinions on different websites regarding the RFID chip. I didn't write everything I had read. For example The Roman Catholic Church being considered The Beast System. Also many other members posted the info that I had learned about so no need for me to repeat that.<br /><br />BeTheChange-I had also found that website and read through that one. When I posted references I just chose the ones that for me were the easiest at the time to understand. I am glad you took the time to research for your own understanding.<br /><br />WhiteNight-You are welcome. I will be watching your videos. There is a whole pandoras box to be opened regarding the mark of the beast and yes the Vatican/Roman Catholic Church has everything to do with the mark of the beast. <br /><br />Here is another hint. I do not feel comfortable saying outright what I am talking about because it can be considered very scary. <br />
Some of the stuff I found out about within the last few days are in scripture in revelation 20:4-6, there is alot of info on the internet and youtube regarding the scripture being fulfilled.
<br /><br />P.S. I know I said I was done commenting on this subject but I just can't help myself sometimes...<br />
<br /><br />Hi Imconvinced!<br /><br />I am confused. I am just not sure how can keeping a Saturday Sabbath have anything to do with finances since the MoB is absolutely intimately tied to finances: Revelation 13 16<br /><br />What I find interesting is if you look at what 'TPTB' (I put them into quotations because they don't really have power, only God does) but anyways, what they want to do is to microchip the population and having these microchips intimately tied to finances, where only people who have an active one being able to buy and sell. See Aaron Russo's interview about this here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1263677258215075609<br /><br />Which might fit very well with the description of the MoB in Revelation<br /><br />I do believe (and have Scriptural support) that God's true children will not be deceived. Jesus said that no one has the ability to snatch any of His children out of His hand so we need not be afraid: <br />
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
<br />http://bible.cc/john/10-28.htm<br /><br />And God's true children cannot be deceived away from Salvation which goes along with the passage above: <br />
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
<br />http://bible.cc/matthew/24-24.htm<br /><br />So we are not to be afraid. We are in Christ, our Tabernacle, our Shelter, our great Shepard! With love http://bible.cc/1_john/4-18.htm<br /><br />PS: and I know we might end up disagreeing on this, so that's okay bearhug<br /><br />
Comments
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."