I found some very nice...."Adventures magazine for kids "1993 June.Michael Jackson with (guess)..Pinocchio !And on the cover appears 25 and june and Pinocchio !...What you think ? <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Yes Michael used doubles but look at Navi or ecasanova... Do they really look like Michael??? NO !! you can see the difference, right? and these people are the ones Michael was using as decoy
Michael is at O2 the lighting is different in the pictures
And yes Mo and Souza.. I have been in the business for 28 years, I have been in studio recordings, photoshoots, movie sets, special effetcs (computerized and non computerized)...yes you can alter the voice and change the look but not like this....
Of course we edit to show only what the public is supposed to see
BTW I have been in one of your studios in Holland back in 85.. that is where i met Van Verhoven (good director)
If what your claim is true why ECasasano and Navi do not look EXACTLY like Michael???
There were loads of scenes filmed from a distance - I'm not talking about the close-ups (please read my posts properly). The filmed rehearsals were done in two days not months. MJ was rehearsing by himself before he went to the Staples Centre. They only filmed certain parts of the rehearsals. If you did a bit more research, you would have known this.
I think I see what youre saying also. I just got my copy of TII today(Aus release date) and I saw two instances where I could not see the facial features at all of MJ while performing. It wasn't for whole songs but was within the songs, like the segments were spliced in. I am convinced that these instances are the real doubles in TII. From the fleeting impressions, I got a sense of the person being possibly Navi Because exact likeness wasn't necessary as the features were indistinguishable . Couldn't rewatch it as I had to leave for work. I also noticed that MJ mixed and matched a lot of his clothing wearing a different shirt with same undershirt and black pants. Made me realize that His parts weren't filmed over a longer period of time. The rest of the cast were probably rehearsing for the full period. Now I need sleep and I will examine further tomorrow.
Victor wrote:please lock this thread, no more fightning <!-- s --><!-- s --> be respectful to each other, Michael dont wanna see us FIGHT..
Datroot wrote:Yes, get rid of this thread - people obviously can't discuss the subject sensibly.
No, this thread will not be locked nor get deleted. This is an important discussion to which people must be able to post.
Every poster is responsible for its own behavior. Rude posts can be individually removed, so there is no need to lock or delete this thread for that.
Mo (and I dn't mean anything offensive) what about other threads that have been locked/deleted? Weren't those people also responsible for their own behaviour? And couldn't rude posts have been deleted in those instances?
I think that this thread is causing a great divide among those on either side, not just a simple disagreement. With some people being openly rude and hostile towards other members and even Michael- or in some people's opinion- a double. I am not saying that the thread should be deleted. But certainly locked. The investigation isn't moving forward with this topic, and may even be holding us back...especially since it cannot be, for the time being, confirmed by the man himself @ the most. Besides, imo other threads have been locked for lesser reasons.
Victor wrote:please lock this thread, no more fightning <!-- s --><!-- s --> be respectful to each other, Michael dont wanna see us FIGHT..
Datroot wrote:Yes, get rid of this thread - people obviously can't discuss the subject sensibly.
No, this thread will not be locked nor get deleted. This is an important discussion to which people must be able to post.
Every poster is responsible for its own behavior. Rude posts can be individually removed, so there is no need to lock or delete this thread for that.
Mo (and I dn't mean anything offensive) what about other threads that have been locked/deleted? Weren't those people also responsible for their own behaviour? And couldn't rude posts have been deleted in those instances?
I think that this thread is causing a great divide among those on either side, not just a simple disagreement. With some people being openly rude and hostile towards other members and even Michael- or in some people's opinion- a double. I am not saying that the thread should be deleted. But certainly locked. The investigation isn't moving forward with this topic, and may even be holding us back...especially since it cannot be, for the time being, confirmed by the man himself @ the most. Besides, imo other threads have been locked for lesser reasons.
First of all, this is the OFFICIAL double thread and for that reason alone it won't be locked. Second: As for your other questions/remarks - I don't think this thread is the appropriate place to discuss those. I'd rather see that appear in the Forum FAQ,...
This is so sad. <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> I don't understand why people can't just respect each other and debate like a tennis game. There have been other threads locked that I came across and wanted to post something but couldn't. If we value certain topics why spoil it for others. Maybe deleting certain mudslinging posts would be more fair than locking.
To my humble opinion, people choose to be devided. I disagree with a lot of people on the board, but I respect their opinions and I don't try to force my opinion upon them.
Closing this thread doesn't change anyting. Changing your attitude and the way you response to people does. Don't feed the trolls! L.O.V.E.! Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and has the right to use it. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Back on topic;
I've still not made up my mind about the doubles used in TII. I'm still on cleftwatch though, even though the thread is locked. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
To my humble opinion, people choose to be devided. I disagree with a lot of people on the board, but I respect their opinions and I don't try to force my opinion upon them.
Closing this thread doesn't change anyting. Changing your attitude and the way you response to people does. Don't feed the trolls! L.O.V.E.! Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and has the right to use it. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Back on topic;
I've still not made up my mind about the doubles used in TII. I'm still on cleftwatch though, even though the thread is locked. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I agree, people don't have to be divided because they don't agree on every single thing. And yes, attitude matters, a lot!
Hahaha, it's still all Michael IMHO.
The photo's of 02-Arena are photoshopped to let his skin look more smooth I think.
Photoshop normally makes you more handsome and does not sharpen your smile, if you get what I am trying to say. The smile is off, so is the long chin and the lines in the face.
Michael himself was in London, so why should he let a double do the conference? Doesn't make sense to me.
Because it is staged, he was about to hoax his death.
I sure will look into prostetic make-up just to surprise myself. But I know it takes many many hours to transform somebody to look so similar to be a perfect double. Then another person (at least 1) must also be in the hoax, the make-up artist.
The only doubles Michael maybe ushed sometimes are doubles we don't see close-up.
Rollercoaster .... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Like you say, it will take hours, but that doesn't mean it's not possible <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
have you ever used photoshop? i use it all the time and you can do EVERYTHING on it, you can sharpen or smooth whatever you want, i suggest you try it.
Hahaha, it's still all Michael IMHO.
The photo's of 02-Arena are photoshopped to let his skin look more smooth I think.
Photoshop normally makes you more handsome and does not sharpen your smile, if you get what I am trying to say. The smile is off, so is the long chin and the lines in the face.
Michael himself was in London, so why should he let a double do the conference? Doesn't make sense to me.
Because it is staged, he was about to hoax his death.
I sure will look into prostetic make-up just to surprise myself. But I know it takes many many hours to transform somebody to look so similar to be a perfect double. Then another person (at least 1) must also be in the hoax, the make-up artist.
The only doubles Michael maybe ushed sometimes are doubles we don't see close-up.
Rollercoaster .... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Like you say, it will take hours, but that doesn't mean it's not possible <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
have you ever used photoshop? i use it all the time and you can do EVERYTHING on it, you can sharpen or smooth whatever you want, i suggest you try it.
You really don't have to ask me to try out Photoshop or any other Adobe programs, I know them all very well.
Clearly you don't understand my point, by softer face I mean expression, shape of the mouth when he smiles and the lines and structure of the face, as well as its form.
The corners of the mouth of O2 guy are going up, while Mike's are going down and he has a rounder and more genuine smile.
Don't petronize me Jacksongirl, I'm not a moron.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I just KNEW you were going to do that, so I just sticked with uploading the documentary, hahahaha!
<!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Hahaha, it's still all Michael IMHO.
The photo's of 02-Arena are photoshopped to let his skin look more smooth I think.
Photoshop normally makes you more handsome and does not sharpen your smile, if you get what I am trying to say. The smile is off, so is the long chin and the lines in the face.
Michael himself was in London, so why should he let a double do the conference? Doesn't make sense to me.
Because it is staged, he was about to hoax his death.
I sure will look into prostetic make-up just to surprise myself. But I know it takes many many hours to transform somebody to look so similar to be a perfect double. Then another person (at least 1) must also be in the hoax, the make-up artist.
The only doubles Michael maybe ushed sometimes are doubles we don't see close-up.
Rollercoaster .... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Like you say, it will take hours, but that doesn't mean it's not possible <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
have you ever used photoshop? i use it all the time and you can do EVERYTHING on it, you can sharpen or smooth whatever you want, i suggest you try it.
You really don't have to ask me to try out Photoshop or any other Adobe programs, I know them all very well.
Clearly you don't understand my point, by softer face I mean expression, shape of the mouth when he smiles and the lines and structure of the face, as well as its form.
The corners of the mouth of O2 guy are going up, while Mike's are going down and he has a rounder and more genuine smile.
Don't petronize me Jacksongirl, I'm not a moron.
i'm not calling you a moron, im stating that it is possible to do many things on photoshop if you really know how to use it. simple.
Hahaha, it's still all Michael IMHO.
The photo's of 02-Arena are photoshopped to let his skin look more smooth I think.
Photoshop normally makes you more handsome and does not sharpen your smile, if you get what I am trying to say. The smile is off, so is the long chin and the lines in the face.
Michael himself was in London, so why should he let a double do the conference? Doesn't make sense to me.
Because it is staged, he was about to hoax his death.
I sure will look into prostetic make-up just to surprise myself. But I know it takes many many hours to transform somebody to look so similar to be a perfect double. Then another person (at least 1) must also be in the hoax, the make-up artist.
The only doubles Michael maybe ushed sometimes are doubles we don't see close-up.
Rollercoaster .... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Like you say, it will take hours, but that doesn't mean it's not possible <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
have you ever used photoshop? i use it all the time and you can do EVERYTHING on it, you can sharpen or smooth whatever you want, i suggest you try it.
You really don't have to ask me to try out Photoshop or any other Adobe programs, I know them all very well.
Clearly you don't understand my point, by softer face I mean expression, shape of the mouth when he smiles and the lines and structure of the face, as well as its form.
The corners of the mouth of O2 guy are going up, while Mike's are going down and he has a rounder and more genuine smile.
Don't petronize me Jacksongirl, I'm not a moron.
i'm not calling you a moron, im stating that it is possible to do many things on photoshop if you really know how to use it. simple.
Like I said, I know what photoshop can do, but they are not altering almost 400 pictures of the O2 conference to make the smile and the shape of the face look different from Mike's, there is no use to that.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I am totally blown away by some statements I came across while catching up on this thread.
Let me explain something. I'd say that the majority of people on this board have no experience whatsoever with the music industry. Now I'm not saying I know it all because I don't, but at least I have been around in the business long enough to know what things are going on behind the scenes.
The entertainment industry is one big illusion. Artists, producers, managers and agencies will show you want they want you to see, and will let you listen to what they want you to hear. Publicity campaigns are put together to target audiences in different age groups, and an enormous strategy is involved in order to accomplish this. It's like one big movie script.
Have you ever been to a recording studio? Have you ever been present at a set where they record music videos? Have you ever been present at an artist's photo shoot for a promotional campaign? Do you have any idea what is done to create that big illusion you see and hear? If the answer to all these questions is NO, I'd really like you to think twice before you make comments which are not based on any knowledge nor experience...
Huge amounts of money are involved and invested in the entertainment industry, and money can buy ANYTHING. Google ProTools, harmonizers, compressors, equalizers and other related recording studio equipment, listen to samples. A song is not "ready to go" after simply recording the voice and the instruments. If that was the case, all these major label producers would be out of a job today. Go on youtube and watch "the making of" just anything in order to see what can and is done to manipulate any sort of film and video footage.
Now as for the use of doubles and I'd rather call them doppelgangers - the use of doppelgangers among the high profile celebrities, royalties, presidents etcetera is common knowledge to those surrounding them. People are paid big bucks to provide a service of being the double for the person they're being employed by. It's done for security reasons and diversion. There's nothing new about that.
If there shouldn't have been doubt about the use of doubles in This Is It, there would have been perfect doubles in the movie, looking and moving exactly like Mike. Since (in my opinion, as I see many differences) that wasn't done, to me it shows that we are to investigate these doubles and find out as to WHY they were used.
This has nothing to do with discrediting Mike, were here to investigate a hoax, and every single stone should be turned in order to get to the bottom of this.
Let me explain something. I'd say that the majority of people on this board have no experience whatsoever with the music industry. Now I'm not saying I know it all because I don't, but at least I have been around in the business long enough to know what things are going on behind the scenes.
Have you ever been to a recording studio? Have you ever been present at a set where they record music videos? Have you ever been present at an artist's photo shoot for a promotional campaign? Do you have any idea what is done to create that big illusion you see and hear? If the answer to all these questions is NO, I'd really like you to think twice before you make comments which are not based on any knowledge nor experience...
Huge amounts of money are involved and invested in the entertainment industry, and money can buy ANYTHING. Google ProTools, harmonizers, compressors, equalizers and other related recording studio equipment, listen to samples. A song is not "ready to go" after simply recording the voice and the instruments. If that was the case, all these major label producers would be out of a job today. Go on youtube and watch "the making of" just anything in order to see what can and is done to manipulate any sort of film and video footage.
Now as for the use of doubles and I'd rather call them doppelgangers - the use of doppelgangers among the high profile celebrities, royalties, presidents etcetera is common knowledge to those surrounding them. People are paid big bucks to provide a service of being the double for the person they're being employed by. It's done for security reasons and diversion. There's nothing new about that.
Hello Mo,
Sorry to question on my first post...
I just wanted to ask firstly..Do you mean not to post if we don't have experience in the music industry? That only leaves you that can make a post about it? Do we not post our opinions?
And also...Do you think the O2 press conference was filmed before it was put out, or was it live? Can you use those tools on live footage?
Sorry if these have been answered before, I'm new and need to look around. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Let me explain something. I'd say that the majority of people on this board have no experience whatsoever with the music industry. Now I'm not saying I know it all because I don't, but at least I have been around in the business long enough to know what things are going on behind the scenes.
Have you ever been to a recording studio? Have you ever been present at a set where they record music videos? Have you ever been present at an artist's photo shoot for a promotional campaign? Do you have any idea what is done to create that big illusion you see and hear? If the answer to all these questions is NO, I'd really like you to think twice before you make comments which are not based on any knowledge nor experience...
Huge amounts of money are involved and invested in the entertainment industry, and money can buy ANYTHING. Google ProTools, harmonizers, compressors, equalizers and other related recording studio equipment, listen to samples. A song is not "ready to go" after simply recording the voice and the instruments. If that was the case, all these major label producers would be out of a job today. Go on youtube and watch "the making of" just anything in order to see what can and is done to manipulate any sort of film and video footage.
Now as for the use of doubles and I'd rather call them doppelgangers - the use of doppelgangers among the high profile celebrities, royalties, presidents etcetera is common knowledge to those surrounding them. People are paid big bucks to provide a service of being the double for the person they're being employed by. It's done for security reasons and diversion. There's nothing new about that.
Hello Mo,
Sorry to question on my first post...
I just wanted to ask firstly..Do you mean not to post if we don't have experience in the music industry? That only leaves you that can make a post about it? Do we not post our opinions?
No, that is not what I said. I said THINK TWICE. It would be nice if people research the examples giving in this thread before rejecting everything which is suggested just because they think it's not true or it can't be done.
And also...Do you think the O2 press conference was filmed before it was put out, or was it live? Can you use those tools on live footage?
Sorry if these have been answered before, I'm new and need to look around. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
In my opinion, O2 could have been prerecorded. I can't tell if it was live or not, because I wasn't there. I still think it's very strange that no fan photos have popped up while we see all these fans holding their cameras and cell phones up in the air. Only 2 or 3 low quality youtubes popped up, and that happened months after the conference took place.
I can't work out what I think about the O2 guy, but I don't think it was Michael. Possibly someone we've been seeing for a while, his nose tip looks longer than normal. Do we know when we saw the real Michael last for sure?
Comments
HEAL THE WORLD, L.O.V.E!
Michael is at O2 the lighting is different in the pictures
And yes Mo and Souza.. I have been in the business for 28 years, I have been in studio recordings, photoshoots, movie sets, special effetcs (computerized and non computerized)...yes you can alter the voice and change the look but not like this....
Of course we edit to show only what the public is supposed to see
BTW I have been in one of your studios in Holland back in 85.. that is where i met Van Verhoven (good director)
If what your claim is true why ECasasano and Navi do not look EXACTLY like Michael???
This thread is becoming ridiculous
No, this thread will not be locked nor get deleted. This is an important discussion to which people must be able to post.
Every poster is responsible for its own behavior. Rude posts can be individually removed, so there is no need to lock or delete this thread for that.
Mo (and I dn't mean anything offensive) what about other threads that have been locked/deleted? Weren't those people also responsible for their own behaviour? And couldn't rude posts have been deleted in those instances?
I think that this thread is causing a great divide among those on either side, not just a simple disagreement. With some people being openly rude and hostile towards other members and even Michael- or in some people's opinion- a double. I am not saying that the thread should be deleted. But certainly locked. The investigation isn't moving forward with this topic, and may even be holding us back...especially since it cannot be, for the time being, confirmed by the man himself @ the most. Besides, imo other threads have been locked for lesser reasons.
First of all, this is the OFFICIAL double thread and for that reason alone it won't be locked. Second: As for your other questions/remarks - I don't think this thread is the appropriate place to discuss those. I'd rather see that appear in the Forum FAQ,...
Closing this thread doesn't change anyting. Changing your attitude and the way you response to people does. Don't feed the trolls! L.O.V.E.! Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and has the right to use it. <!-- s
Back on topic;
I've still not made up my mind about the doubles used in TII. I'm still on cleftwatch though, even though the thread is locked. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I agree, people don't have to be divided because they don't agree on every single thing. And yes, attitude matters, a lot!
[youtube:1x5y3uu5]
I just KNEW you were going to do that, so I just sticked with uploading the documentary, hahahaha!
You really don't have to ask me to try out Photoshop or any other Adobe programs, I know them all very well.
Clearly you don't understand my point, by softer face I mean expression, shape of the mouth when he smiles and the lines and structure of the face, as well as its form.
The corners of the mouth of O2 guy are going up, while Mike's are going down and he has a rounder and more genuine smile.
Don't petronize me Jacksongirl, I'm not a moron.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Like I said, I know what photoshop can do, but they are not altering almost 400 pictures of the O2 conference to make the smile and the shape of the face look different from Mike's, there is no use to that.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Mo, Well said.
Hello Mo,
Sorry to question on my first post...
I just wanted to ask firstly..Do you mean not to post if we don't have experience in the music industry? That only leaves you that can make a post about it? Do we not post our opinions?
And also...Do you think the O2 press conference was filmed before it was put out, or was it live? Can you use those tools on live footage?
Sorry if these have been answered before, I'm new and need to look around. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
No, that is not what I said. I said THINK TWICE. It would be nice if people research the examples giving in this thread before rejecting everything which is suggested just because they think it's not true or it can't be done.
In my opinion, O2 could have been prerecorded. I can't tell if it was live or not, because I wasn't there. I still think it's very strange that no fan photos have popped up while we see all these fans holding their cameras and cell phones up in the air. Only 2 or 3 low quality youtubes popped up, and that happened months after the conference took place.
I can't work out what I think about the O2 guy, but I don't think it was Michael. Possibly someone we've been seeing for a while, his nose tip looks longer than normal. Do we know when we saw the real Michael last for sure?