For TS my problem is what I stated up above about the clues along with the fact that we do not know his/her intentions.
I didn't get the answers to my questions because I asked you, whatever TS' intention is, even if he's related with Sony and Sony is trying to promote itself, why does it bother you to get clues from TS? If you don't believe TS is giving no clues or giving no info to us, simply do not follow TS and make your own mind about whatever you think clues are etc. What's the reason to come here and accuse TS and create this mess?
As far as what I believe about the hoax, it is something personal and you don't have the right to question me about it since I have not permitted you to do so. However, my opinion is stated in my posts very well. So, my opinion is that I do not know what happened to MJ and I am trying to figure this out. And because of that I am examining and reconsidering every possiblity and part of that is participating in this blog.
I have the right to question you as long as you try to create a mess on the forum and do it at the time when people started to attack TS. I do understand that you haven't made up your mind about the hoax and to investigate is good with considering EVERY single possibility but all I see in your posts is you're blaming TS. It seems like you're looking at the issue from ONE SIDE only. You should try to see the big picture.
And you have already said twice that you will not post again here, but you keep posting.
It's MY choice to decide to keep on writing. You have no right to judge me for my decision. I didn't claim that I'm sure about it, I directly wrote that I didn't find you sincere. And it's my opinion.
You wrote that you came here to "warn" us and you "did" it so "well".
I have nothing more to say to you. Enough I wasted my time with this.
bec, I don't like that this is the example that I use, but it is the fresher example in my memory. TIAI 11/24, PureLove's post.
Firstly, I want to state that I respect PureLove's opinion, although I disagree with it.
Now... During the period TS made this redirect there was a question raised in this forum. When people learned about his/her redirect started making suggestions about what he/she wanted to mean. This post was long. Could anyone understand what he/she meant with it? No, most people proposed something different. But, this is not the main point. All attention was concentrated in this post. In the question "why not in any other post?" most people answer "because it was the most relevant". But this is not the right answer. The right answer is that this was the most suitable redirect for TS, whether it was made by good purpose or bad purpose. So, by saying that the redirects suitable to TS's purposes are the relevant ones is a great problem, since TS's purpose is unknown.
For TS my problem is what I stated up above about the clues along with the fact that we do not know his/her intentions.
I didn't get the answers to my questions because I asked you, whatever TS' intention is, even if he's related with Sony and Sony is trying to promote itself, why does it bother you to get clues from TS? If you don't believe TS is giving no clues or giving no info to us, simply do not follow TS and make your own mind about whatever you think clues are etc. What's the reason to come here and accuse TS and create this mess?
As far as what I believe about the hoax, it is something personal and you don't have the right to question me about it since I have not permitted you to do so. However, my opinion is stated in my posts very well. So, my opinion is that I do not know what happened to MJ and I am trying to figure this out. And because of that I am examining and reconsidering every possiblity and part of that is participating in this blog.
I have the right to question you as long as you try to create a mess on the forum and do it at the time when people started to attack TS. I do understand that you haven't made up your mind about the hoax and to investigate is good with considering EVERY single possibility but all I see in your posts is you're blaming TS. It seems like you're looking at the issue from ONE SIDE only. You should try to see the big picture.
And you have already said twice that you will not post again here, but you keep posting.
It's MY choice to decide to keep on writing. You have no right to judge me for my decision. I didn't claim that I'm sure about it, I directly wrote that I didn't find you sincere. And it's my opinion.
You wrote that you came here to "warn" us and you "did" it so "well".
I have nothing more to say to you. Enough I wasted my time with you.
Do not use my posts partly in order to make them suit to your answers. This is the whole post of mine in which you answered:
And I had started feeling relieved... Ok, fine, I will give you the answer you asked for PureLove.
For TS my problem is what I stated up above about the clues along with the fact that we do not know his/her intentions. Have a look:
A clue is a clue indeed. And it is not the truth, indeed. But, when for example TMZ gives a clue and TS redirects to it, then assumtions and suggestions start about it. The next day TS redirects to one of the suggestions made by investigators. So, using the suggestion of someone as a clue or as being right and raising questions about it, directs our research in the way TS wishes, because this way other suggestions and perspectives are actually excluded from it.
As far as what I believe about the hoax, it is something personal and you don't have the right to question me about it since I have not permitted you to do so. However, my opinion is stated in my posts very well. So, my opinion is that I do not know what happened to MJ and I am trying to figure this out. And because of that I am examining and reconsidering every possiblity and part of that is participating in this blog.
When you adress against a person, whether you know who they are or not this stands for a personal attack. Speculating that my post had an ultimate goal stands for a personal attack, especially when claim that you are sure about it. And you have already said twice that you will not post again here, but you keep posting. This is my last answer to you, for subjects similar to "Are you a believer or not?", "You think we were spoonfed?", "You are arrogant" and all sorts of this staff, because patience has limits. I have already given you the answers in my posts. If you want to discuss something else with me just pm me or whatever, you are welcome. Have a nice day.
In regards to "clues", here's an interesting tid-bit. Recently I had a conversation about lyrics and their meaning with an old-timer in the music industry. He told me that it's common knowledge among musicians that David Bowie used to cut out words from newspapers and magazines and saved them in a draw. Whenever he was about to write a new song he just grabbed a hand full of these bits of paper, spread them out and started writing his lyrics by using the words he blindly picked.
Now here's a quote from Mr. Bowie himself:
Frankly, I mean, sometimes the interpretations I've seen on some of the songs that I've written are a lot more interesting than the input that I put in.
Clues are mostly also based on interpretations, but that doesn't mean these interpretations are correct.
Mo, that's very true and I've always been one to feel that song lyrics (unless they've been explained in detail by whoever wrote them) can be interpreted by different people to mean different things. This is true of Michael's lyrics too, even those that seem straightforward and angry. Unless we heard it from MJ himself we don't know who he is angry with. Sony, media, NWO, rabid fans, stalkers,police departments...or maybe people in his private life who have betrayed him.
Uranus (that's one heck of a username) I think the reason others are reacting negatively to your posts is simply down to timing and while I can absolutely get where you're coming from that TS could simply be stringing people along, providing "clues", waiting for people to interpret them and then picking one to redirect to, thus making it up as he goes along, that would imply he's either messing with us for personal pleasure or for sinister reasons. You seem convinced that being affiliated with Sony means sinister intentions, whereas many of us simply don't see what Sony has to gain by messing with a few thousand hoaxers. When I said the reaction from some to you is down to timing I meant that you just joined, having obviously read and formed opinions on the reactions to TS for quite a while, waiting till the questions surrounding his authenticity were raised and then diving in with grim warnings. Now not everyone here believes in TS and that's fine but why wait till all the commotion started to state this strong opinion, you've obviously had doubts about his intentions for a while. The fact that you seem so fixated on this and seem reluctant to discuss the bigger picture as to why it would be such a bad thing for him to be affiliated with Sony or other matters connected to the hoax raises red flags for many. The warnings you've given about not blindly following him have been stated by many of us here, and I doubt anyone is 100% sure who he is. Therefore many of us keep our objective hat on and decide how relevant each "clue" is/might be. This thing between you and some others is just going round in circles, either you believe TS is genuine or not, if you don't you don't have to read the redirects or the interpretations, nor worry that we're all being brainwashed by the "cult of TS/Sony". Sure every adventure is more thrilling when there's a shadowy bad guy pretending to be one of the good guys, but until TS starts using any influence he has in a negative way in my book he's still one of the good guys.
Mo, that's very true and I've always been one to feel that song lyrics (unless they've been explained in detail by whoever wrote them) can be interpreted by different people to mean different things. This is true of Michael's lyrics too, even those that seem straightforward and angry. Unless we heard it from MJ himself we don't know who he is angry with. Sony, media, NWO, rabid fans, stalkers,police departments...or maybe people in his private life who have betrayed him.
Uranus (that's one heck of a username) I think the reason others are reacting negatively to your posts is simply down to timing and while I can absolutely get where you're coming from that TS could simply be stringing people along, providing "clues", waiting for people to interpret them and then picking one to redirect to, thus making it up as he goes along, that would imply he's either messing with us for personal pleasure or for sinister reasons. You seem convinced that being affiliated with Sony means sinister intentions, whereas many of us simply don't see what Sony has to gain by messing with a few thousand hoaxers. When I said the reaction from some to you is down to timing I meant that you just joined, having obviously read and formed opinions on the reactions to TS for quite a while, waiting till the questions surrounding his authenticity were raised and then diving in with grim warnings. Now not everyone here believes in TS and that's fine but why wait till all the commotion started to state this strong opinion, you've obviously had doubts about his intentions for a while. The fact that you seem so fixated on this and seem reluctant to discuss the bigger picture as to why it would be such a bad thing for him to be affiliated with Sony or other matters connected to the hoax raises red flags for many. The warnings you've given about not blindly following him have been stated by many of us here, and I doubt anyone is 100% sure who he is. Therefore many of us keep our objective hat on and decide how relevant each "clue" is/might be. This thing between you and some others is just going round in circles, either you believe TS is genuine or not, if you don't you don't have to read the redirects or the interpretations, nor worry that we're all being brainwashed by the "cult of TS/Sony". Sure every adventure is more thrilling when there's a shadowy bad guy pretending to be one of the good guys, but until TS starts using any influence he has in a negative way in my book he's still one of the good guys.
Please people, we are trying to figure some things out and we are discussing possiblities not truths. How do you know that I waited until the perfect timing? Perhaps you know my timetable as well? It is you making corcles over and over again on the same things. I DID NOT BLAME ANYONE AND I HAVE STATED THIS A HUNDREND OF TIMES IN MY POSTS! Please read all the posts before coming up with an idea. This is a post of mine to PureLove written yesterday. I WILL NOT REPEAT THE SAME THNNGS AGAIN AND AGAIN:
Let's clear this out. Nobody can claim that has proof for something, because proof is something solid and something that we know as a fact. We have been until now only able to find clues, analyze them and make some connections. And this is the proccess of connecting the dots. There are hundrends of thousands of facts that we do not know. Pretending to be sure about what is real and what is not, is only an illusion. And arrogance is to be absolute, not to question.
Talking about absolute claims... TS's connection to Sony doesn't mean that MJ sent him/her. It means that either MJ sent him or he's working for others(or him/herself). And yes, Sony's profit could be a propablity. MJ has been generating for them billions of dollars. Their profit would not come from us, hoax believers, buying some CD's. But, perhaps from people hearing the rumours about a great artist who hoaxed his death. This keeps MJ's fame star shining not only for people who already know him, but for young people and non-fans as well. Especially when such rumours come out of Riley's and Akon's mouth. And gaining several million dollars from new MJ releases makes a lot of sense.
As far as TS is concerned, this article did not say that TS posted only about TMZ and Sony. The only claim here is how could someone have the information that TS had. And the coincidencies just lead to a statistically correct conclusion. That TS is propably closely connected to Sony. As for how he/she found all the other things(numerology etc), nobody knows, except for those who know TS personally. And because nobody knows TS personally from around here, this means that we do not know his/her goals. Whether he/she is a crazed fan or somebody respectful to MJ sharing his/her information with us or someone sent by MJ or a Sony accolyte nobody knows for sure. Crafting numerology and combining it with conspiracy theories is not as difficult as it seems. So, we cannot be sure 100% about what TS "taught us". And his/her redirects maybe promoting Sony maybe not. Perhaps, he/she redirects sometimes to buy time for him/herself(like the charities redirects or others), and perhaps to show MJ's message. Maybe he/she redirects what is convenient to him/her like PureLove's post claiming that exposing TS's identity would be dangerous to MJ(note that this article has strongly supported that it couldn't be dangerous for Michael if we learned TS's identity) and maybe he/she redirects to what are his/her intentions. Nobody knows. Except for those who believe every TS redirect as a clue. I am sorry, but, believing something as a clue just because TS wrote it, then this is following him/her as a sheep.
Nobody claimed that people follow TS as sheep. Nobody claimed Sony killed MJ. Nobody is blaming TS. At least not in this article.
This article's purpose is only to provide people with the results of a research done, some logical statements and suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves. Nothing more, nothing less.
What people believe is their own choice and their right to exress their views must be respected from everyone.
In regards to "clues", here's an interesting tid-bit. Recently I had a conversation about lyrics and their meaning with an old-timer in the music industry. He told me that it's common knowledge among musicians that David Bowie used to cut out words from newspapers and magazines and saved them in a draw. Whenever he was about to write a new song he just grabbed a hand full of these bits of paper, spread them out and started writing his lyrics by using the words he blindly picked.
Now here's a quote from Mr. Bowie himself:
Frankly, I mean, sometimes the interpretations I've seen on some of the songs that I've written are a lot more interesting than the input that I put in.
Clues are mostly also based on interpretations, but that doesn't mean these interpretations are correct.
I totally agree!
And that is why, before analyzing a clue we shoud judge whether it can be interpreted as a clue. Then we should search for all the possible interpretations of a reasonable clue. And finally, choose the most logically based interpretetion of this clue.
And that is why, before analyzing a clue we shoud judge whether it can be interpreted as a clue. Then we should search for all the possible interpretations of a reasonable clue. And finally, choose the most logically based interpretetion of this clue.
Uranus I didn't say you accused anyone of anything, you simply keep reminding us that we shouldn't take anything TS says as the truth. Most of us already keep that in mind and it's been said many times. Like I said you have a valid point that certain directions might be ignored. And of course when you decide to join is up to you, I was simply pointing out why some have questioned your timing in joining. Like you we're all here to investigate what really happened, it doesn't make anyone's opinions more valid than anyone elses. But each to their own and all that, I think many of us are trying to keep this issue from dividing us as a group, surely this is just one strand in a bigger ball of mystery and if we all just let each other make up our own minds and not waste too much time or energy trying to convince others of our own theories we'll do a lot better. We all have to decide on what's possible based on our own common sense. Which is what you've said yourself basically. I'm well aware you didn't say you thought MJ was murdered and that you're just discussing possibilities. That's all anyone is doing here and for the most part it's done without conflict despite disagreements. Agreeing to disagree is absolutely essential here.
Sorry, if I become fierce.
This conflict here was unexpected for me and I have been very frustrated by several posts.
I agree with you trustno1.
Thanks for your post.
In regards to "clues", here's an interesting tid-bit. Recently I had a conversation about lyrics and their meaning with an old-timer in the music industry. He told me that it's common knowledge among musicians that David Bowie used to cut out words from newspapers and magazines and saved them in a draw. Whenever he was about to write a new song he just grabbed a hand full of these bits of paper, spread them out and started writing his lyrics by using the words he blindly picked.
Now here's a quote from Mr. Bowie himself:
Frankly, I mean, sometimes the interpretations I've seen on some of the songs that I've written are a lot more interesting than the input that I put in.
Clues are mostly also based on interpretations, but that doesn't mean these interpretations are correct.
I totally agree!
And that is why, before analyzing a clue we shoud judge whether it can be interpreted as a clue. Then we should search for all the possible interpretations of a reasonable clue. And finally, choose the most logically based interpretetion of this clue.
Oh really and what must we do to judge if a clue can be a clue? And what about the interpretations, there can be a lot and they can all be wrong even if they make some sense. But sense in regards to what exactly? How can we oppose that clue and to what in order to know if it makes sense or not? But what kind of clues are we talking about? Michael being alive or not? This is all a matter of perspective.
Uranus: L.O.V.E to you too. We're all in this together and I think as long as you know that your opinion is as respected as anyone else's here and that you're part of this family, then everything is fine. If you felt attacked you were bound to be defensive but I always think it's best to move past differences and not let them become grudges. Thank you so much for your gracious reply and I look forward to getting to know you better, it was a bumpy start but I hope you won't let that affect your opinion of anyone here. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
bec, I don't like that this is the example that I use, but it is the fresher example in my memory. TIAI 11/24, PureLove's post.
Firstly, I want to state that I respect PureLove's opinion, although I disagree with it.
Now... During the period TS made this redirect there was a question raised in this forum. When people learned about his/her redirect started making suggestions about what he/she wanted to mean. This post was long. Could anyone understand what he/she meant with it? No, most people proposed something different. But, this is not the main point. All attention was concentrated in this post. In the question "why not in any other post?" most people answer "because it was the most relevant". But this is not the right answer. The right answer is that this was the most suitable redirect for TS, whether it was made by good purpose or bad purpose. So, by saying that the redirects suitable to TS's purposes are the relevant ones is a great problem, since TS's purpose is unknown.
I see where your going with your thoughts. I posted my opinion in this thread <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15871&start=225<!-- l --> regarding this type of situation your now talking about.
I am reminded when I read threads like this of what Michael has said before, "I love psycology" "People make up all these ideas in their heads based on something they think is going on"
I see people feeling to confidant in their thinking (like they are always right) because of validation from TS on their posts and they become manipulated into thinking a certain way. Maybe this was a test to see if you really believed what you wrote before when you got that confirmation or do you switch your belief at the drop of confusion?
It never fails, as soon as a redirect to a post is validated by TS everyone jumps on the wagon and comments flow of how great the person who wrote the comment is. Please don't misunderstand my meaning of everyone and jumps on the wagon. I have agreed with many statements people have wrote when TS redirected to them. That isn't the point. Whether you see it this way or not you are being manipulated. If TS can so easily manipulate you think how the powers to be manipulate you.
That is the biggest lesson this should have shown you. I see this as a merry go round and it is going around and around.
When I said I see people feeling to confidant in their thinking (like they are always right). I am and was referring to these situations like what is happening right now in this thread. I also meant cocky when I said confidant. This happens alot more than maybe people realize. When a redirect goes to a persons post and they get the feeling of being right because TS validated it I see some of those same people speaking to others with a tone to their posts as if they have the absolute knowledge and they down talk others. It has happened to me also.
There is a difference when a person is geniunely stating an opinion and when someone speaks to someone in a tone of superiority.
Now as far as clues and when to accept them for truth, that is only up to you as an individual of what you choose to interpret (imagine) as the truth. What your definition of fact (truth) is and what mine is will be different. I did answer you about my thoughts on SONY and the connection to Michael. I answered you with actual video proof using Puff's post of why I believed that not just speculation.
Reality Versus Imagination and Illusion
By Remez Sasson
The five senses make us feel that the world is real. Seeing the solidity of the objects around us, feeling the impact of the senses, it is hard to deny the validity of what we see. Everything looks real and we never stop to question this reality.
The mind is attached to the five senses and accepts everything as real without questioning. When we bump into a table or a wall and we feel pain, it is difficult to say that we are imagining it. When we see with our eyes, hear sounds, smell, or when we feel heat or coldness, we accept these sense impressions as real.
Some say that the world is an illusion, Maya in Eastern terminology. Can we accept this when everything looks so real? Can we regard the world as imagination?
We need the five senses and the mind to be conscious of the world, which means that the world is dependent on them. Without the senses and the mind the world does not exist for us.
If we say that a real thing is something that always exist with no gaps, then the outside world is not real. There are times besides sleep, when we are so busy that we are not conscious of what is going on around us. When there are no sensory sensations, as while being in a floating tank, or when in deep meditation, we are still conscious, but not of the world. This means that sometimes we are conscious of the world and sometimes we are not.
After we wake up from sleep, or get out of deep meditation and return to ordinary consciousness, we feel that there was a gap in our consciousness of the outside world. There was no world at that time. If we endeavor to pay attention to our consciousness we will come to the conclusion that the outside world comes and go, while the awareness of our inner consciousness never wavers.
The world exists for us only when the senses and mind are directed towards it, and cease to exist for us the moment we silence the senses and mind. During deep sleep we do not experience the world because the senses are not active. Can you prove the reality of the world while you are deeply asleep? When you wake up from sleep other people may tell you that the world existed, but can you prove that these people existed while you were asleep?
After waking up we may invent all kinds of theories to prove the realty of the world. Yet, these are only mental theories. During sleep it was non-existent for us. The world disappeared together with time.
During sleep dreams seem very real, but upon awakening we realize that they were just dreams. So it is with this world we call reality. It is possible to wake from it too. Sri Ramana Maharshi, the great Indian sage, has said that the difference between a dream while sleeping and the dream we call wakefulness is only of duration, one short and the other one long.
Further to the above, each person interprets and relates to other people's behavior, words and attitudes in a different way, according to the contents of his subconscious mind. No one's world is like another. Again, we see illusion at work. A world is created, based on our interpretation of what we see hear and sense.
Mind and thoughts create the world
Thoughts arise in the mind and we become aware of them. The same kind of thoughts tend to arise again and again. If we let this process continue, it goes on incessantly. These thoughts make us expect, behave, talk and act in a certain personalized way, and thus cause the people we come in contact with, to treat us and relate to us in a certain manner.
We usually continue with the same way of thinking, and live the same kind of life each day, whether we like it or not. These thoughts shape our circumstances and relationships. It is like watching the same movie over and over again. If we want to watch a different movie we have to change the reel or cassette. This happens by changing our thoughts. This is how creative visualization works, and there is nothing supernatural about this.
The world we experience and the life we live, are the reflections of our thoughts. The mind creates a world of illusion. By changing our thoughts, we change the illusion and experience a different reality. We do not create a world, only an illusion that looks real. No unusual power is involved here. We are living in Maya and are changing the Maya.
When we are able to still the mind and the senses, our consciousness seems to shift into a new dimension. Actually it is there all the time, only that the mind makes us think otherwise. When there are no thoughts in the mind, the world we know and believe is real, loses its reality. We become conscious of the world beyond the mind and illusions.
Waking up from illusion
We can wake up completely, understand and become conscious of the illusion of Maya, and live, as we really are, as a pure, formless, beginning-less and endless consciousness. Due to illusion it seems as if we are all separated, having individual selves and each living a different life. Even when we wake up from Maya, its play may go on. We continue to see and experience it, yet it is of no concern to us anymore. Outwardly we may continue to live our life in the same manner, but we are really awake.
It is like a movie show. A person watching a movie gets so involved with the characters and with what happens on the screen. He may become happy or sad with the heroes, gets depressed, shouts or laughs.
If at a particular moment he decides to stop watching the screen and manages to withdraw his attention from the movie, he gets snapped out of the illusion the movie creates. The projecting machine will go on projecting images on the screen, but he knows that it is only light projected through the film onto the screen. What is seen on the screen is not real, but yet it is there. He may watch the movie, or he may decide to close his eyes and ears and stop looking at the screen.
Have you ever watched a movie, when at some point the reel got stuck or there was a power failure? What happens to you when you watch an interesting, absorbing film on the television and then suddenly there are commercials? You are snapped out of the illusion to the world around you. When you are sleeping and dreaming, and someone wakes you up, you feel thrown out of one world to a different one. It is the same in the life we call reality. It is possible to wake up from it.
One who has managed to still his mind and senses through proper training, may go on living and acting in the world like the person in the cinema hall, who is no longer interested in the movie. He learns how to get out of the illusion and wake up. If he is no more a slave to illusion and dreams, he is free. He sees everything as it really is. Contrary to what you might think, such a person functions in his daily life in a better way, is stronger, happier, very practical and free from worry.
In the East, metaphors are used in order to demonstrate what illusion is in relation to Reality. A jewel made of gold may be called an earring or a necklace, but actually it is only gold. Before it became a jewel and after it is melted it is only gold. Clay is shaped into vessels such as plates, cups, or vases, but they are only clay.
Due to convenience of speech we call these objects made of gold or clay by many names, but they are really only clay or gold. Everything in existence is "made" from the Original Substance, and is not a "real" thing standing by itself, exactly as in the above examples. Nothing has a reality of its own.
A mirage is not real, but yet we see it. A dream taking place while sleeping is not real, yet we experience it during the time of the dream as a reality. A hologram looks 3D, while it is actually flat.
In the East, one of the metaphors of explaining reality and illusion is that of the rope and the snake. In the dark we may see a rope and mistake it for a snake. When there is enough light we realize that it was only a rope, and the snake disappears. It is only due to some kind of illusion that we see a world. Everything is in the mind.
Now Ur anus no offense but, I always read and interpret this name like I wrote it. lol
Yes I have a potty mind. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
My perspective and interpretation is that this entire brohaha is much ado about nothing.
I mean, let's face it, in reality, all we are doing here is shooting the shit with a bunch of our friends. This hoax will go on with or without us. We play an integral part as extras and lab rats, in my opinion, but just like lab rats, there is no "wrong" answer... we cannot possibly do the wrong thing or make the wrong decisions or adhere to the wrong belief because recording how we move and think and act as a group is very likely the idea. I mean... MJ's comeback isn't contingent on our actions. That's sort of insane to assume that the man is going to let the culmination of a (my opinion) 25 year life legacy project rest on the shoulders of a small group of completely unaware internet users, who had better not do the wrong thing as a group even if they don't know what that wrong thing is... or else no MJ for you!
Yeah no. Not gonna happen.
So whatever. I'm having a good time with this hoax and TS helps break up the down time. And it irritates me that haters perpetually feel the need to come here and troll the forum and try to stop me from having a good time. Like I'm some blind moron who lives in fantasy land and needs to be enlightened. 17 months of this crap and I grow weary. For the 456459745th time, non-believers should get an escort to the door.
I smell some seriously shady shit going on with this topic. All things considered, the usernames and the affiliations. Somethings up with this. I don't know what but something isn't right.
Plus I just worked my ass off the last 10 days and I still have no day off til Christmas and I'm cranky.
Oh and by the way, NO it's NOT an investigator's website... it's a DEATH HOAX investigators website. Look, I didn't name it, I just read the top of the page.
My perspective and interpretation is that this entire brohaha is much ado about nothing.
I mean, let's face it, in reality, all we are doing here is shooting the shit with a bunch of our friends. This hoax will go on with or without us. We play an integral part as extras and lab rats, in my opinion, but just like lab rats, there is no "wrong" answer... we cannot possibly do the wrong thing or make the wrong decisions or adhere to the wrong belief because recording how we move and think and act as a group is very likely the idea. I mean... MJ's comeback isn't contingent on our actions. That's sort of insane to assume that the man is going to let the culmination of a (my opinion) 25 year life legacy project rest on the shoulders of a small group of completely unaware internet users, who had better not do the wrong thing as a group even if they don't know what that wrong thing is... or else no MJ for you!
Yeah no. Not gonna happen.
Well said bec. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a test group but I'm definitely here voluntarily. I sometimes feel that I really get what's going on with the hoax and well, the world, and to be honest, I would rather know and be a part of it then be completely ignorant in that I simply don't know. I can't believe that this hoax has flown completely over the heads of millions and millions of people.
With all the pot-stirring that's been going on lately, it's only reasonable to assume that it would happen on this forum as well.
I think the main reason for the hoax is for love, I really do believe that. I think if people could just open their hearts and minds to each other, we could achieve peace for the entire world where we work together to better ourselves and the Earth. I really think that is what Michael has always wanted and I can't think of any reason why anyone should ever object to that. For this, and for the fact that there's no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive, is why I choose to be here everyday.
My perspective and interpretation is that this entire brohaha is much ado about nothing.
I mean, let's face it, in reality, all we are doing here is shooting the shit with a bunch of our friends. This hoax will go on with or without us. We play an integral part as extras and lab rats, in my opinion, but just like lab rats, there is no "wrong" answer... we cannot possibly do the wrong thing or make the wrong decisions or adhere to the wrong belief because recording how we move and think and act as a group is very likely the idea. I mean... MJ's comeback isn't contingent on our actions. That's sort of insane to assume that the man is going to let the culmination of a (my opinion) 25 year life legacy project rest on the shoulders of a small group of completely unaware internet users, who had better not do the wrong thing as a group even if they don't know what that wrong thing is... or else no MJ for you!
Yeah no. Not gonna happen.
Well said bec. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a test group but I'm definitely here voluntarily. I sometimes feel that I really get what's going on with the hoax and well, the world, and to be honest, I would rather know and be a part of it then be completely ignorant in that I simply don't know. I can't believe that this hoax has flown completely over the heads of millions and millions of people.
With all the pot-stirring that's been going on lately, it's only reasonable to assume that it would happen on this forum as well.
I think the main reason for the hoax is for love, I really do believe that. I think if people could just open their hearts and minds to each other, we could achieve peace for the entire world where we work together to better ourselves and the Earth. I really think that is what Michael has always wanted and I can't think of any reason why anyone should ever object to that. For this, and for the fact that there's no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive, is why I choose to be here everyday.
I can associate with the lab rat feeling. This is exactly what I feel has been going on for too many years. It took a form of mind control experiment to get us here in the first place and we have been held down here for too long and unfortunately because we have been made to be blind, it will take the courage and faith of someone who can 'see' to use these same tactics to free us. Once we can see for ourselves we won't need this form of guidance but to get to the end of the tunnel, we do! and I thank Michael for having the strong sense of personal responsibility and courage and for loving us 'more'. I trust Michael because he understands love and he trusts love and he understands our blindness. It really is all for love, for peace, for unity and for fun. One of the main things about Michael is that he knew how to be like a child, to be completely in the moment, to laugh, to play with no inhibitions and in complete innocence. This is what is missing and this, for me is what this is all for.
Well said bec. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a test group but I'm definitely here voluntarily. I sometimes feel that I really get what's going on with the hoax and well, the world, and to be honest, I would rather know and be a part of it then be completely ignorant in that I simply don't know. I can't believe that this hoax has flown completely over the heads of millions and millions of people.
With all the pot-stirring that's been going on lately, it's only reasonable to assume that it would happen on this forum as well.
I think the main reason for the hoax is for love, I really do believe that. I think if people could just open their hearts and minds to each other, we could achieve peace for the entire world where we work together to better ourselves and the Earth. I really think that is what Michael has always wanted and I can't think of any reason why anyone should ever object to that. For this, and for the fact that there's no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive, is why I choose to be here everyday.
I can associate with the lab rat feeling. This is exactly what I feel has been going on for too many years. It took a form of mind control experiment to get us here in the first place and we have been held down here for too long and unfortunately because we have been made to be blind, it will take the courage and faith of someone who can 'see' to use these same tactics to free us. Once we can see for ourselves we won't need this form of guidance but to get to the end of the tunnel, we do! and I thank Michael for having the strong sense of personal responsibility and courage and for loving us 'more'. I trust Michael because he understands love and he trusts love and he understands our blindness. It really is all for love, for peace, for unity and for fun. One of the main things about Michael is that he knew how to be like a child, to be completely in the moment, to laugh, to play with no inhibitions and in complete innocence. This is what is missing and this, for me is what this is all for.[/quote]
Beautifully written Andrea & Believe777! Michael has maintained a child's heart despite many tough challenges in his life. He could easily have become bitter and cynical, but he chose to make himself a channel for LOVE instead. He is a living example of what we all have the potential of being if only we allow ourselves to let go of worldly doubts and fears and let the UNIVERSAL POWER OF LOVE take hold.
Well said bec. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a test group but I'm definitely here voluntarily. I sometimes feel that I really get what's going on with the hoax and well, the world, and to be honest, I would rather know and be a part of it then be completely ignorant in that I simply don't know. I can't believe that this hoax has flown completely over the heads of millions and millions of people.
With all the pot-stirring that's been going on lately, it's only reasonable to assume that it would happen on this forum as well.
I think the main reason for the hoax is for love, I really do believe that. I think if people could just open their hearts and minds to each other, we could achieve peace for the entire world where we work together to better ourselves and the Earth. I really think that is what Michael has always wanted and I can't think of any reason why anyone should ever object to that. For this, and for the fact that there's no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive, is why I choose to be here everyday.
I can associate with the lab rat feeling. This is exactly what I feel has been going on for too many years. It took a form of mind control experiment to get us here in the first place and we have been held down here for too long and unfortunately because we have been made to be blind, it will take the courage and faith of someone who can 'see' to use these same tactics to free us. Once we can see for ourselves we won't need this form of guidance but to get to the end of the tunnel, we do! and I thank Michael for having the strong sense of personal responsibility and courage and for loving us 'more'. I trust Michael because he understands love and he trusts love and he understands our blindness. It really is all for love, for peace, for unity and for fun. One of the main things about Michael is that he knew how to be like a child, to be completely in the moment, to laugh, to play with no inhibitions and in complete innocence. This is what is missing and this, for me is what this is all for.
Beautifully written Andrea & Believe777! Michael has maintained a child's heart despite many tough challenges in his life. He could easily have become bitter and cynical, but he chose to make himself a channel for LOVE instead. He is a living example of what we all have the potential of being if only we allow ourselves to let go of worldly doubts and fears and let the UNIVERSAL POWER OF LOVE take hold.[/quote]
Amen! This really is about expanding our minds and opening our hearts to the only thing that really matters in life and that is LOVE, Peace and Unity.
it is wonderful to see that others have seen the true purpose of this "hoax." We need to believe in ourselves and we need to believe that Michael is 100% in total control of everything else! "Keep the Faith" and "Trust" in Michael...just enjoy the "Show", everything is going to be ok in the end...BELIEVE!
I love you guys!!! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
@bec Who said that MJ planned this hoax for 25 years? That's assuming again... We don't know what happened in Michael Jackson's life, nobody here has the truth, we can just speculate. OUR theories could be wrong, who knows?
This hoax began before TS, right, but without him it wouldn't last so long. Look at the today redirect, it's not time yet to give an explanation? It's about a week of chaos and that is the only thing he could say? Sorry, but I personally don't buy it.
If this hoax has a message to spread, I don't think it could go on without the hoax believers.
And for the trolling part..This is not trolling, we know very well that this is a hoax death website, but how many people are here to make up their minds? That is what we are doing, I'm sorry if those kind of comments are annoying you, but there is freedom of speech here and we should respect each other opinions.
1. Uranus it's obvious you changed your identity to post this and you've been here under another username before. I don't understand why you can't expres an opinion without taking a new identity. We are grown-ups I suppose.
Please don't mind that I speak like this, but it is not fair to the others ...
2. Why on earth would Sony be interested of promoting the idea of Michael being alive for a bunch of believers that DON'T COUNT is the sales figures?
In this great adventure MJ and Sony and TS and TMZ are playing in the same team - JMO.
"Situation, speculation, everybody litigation".
Reminds you of something or someone? Anyway...
Firstly, my username is Uranus. Uranus was the father of the Titans in the ancient greek mythology. Uranus is also one of the nine planets of our solar system and as a word means "sky" in greek. Has anybody problem with the fact that I love the sky? If yes, I don't care.
It is obvious that people write posts while they have read the main article and a couple of other posts. Thus, we end up with posts like "you are a hater, you pretend to be the one who will enlighten us, you changed your username etc etc". Have you considered how ridiculus would those comments be if this was not the case? This is not the case as I have replied with my many posts, but I cannot prove it. However, I don't have to do so. Posts are written in order to share opinions and knowledge. This means that people should judge the words of the poster and not the poster himself. When people attack the poster intead of answering to the posts with their opinions, this strongly suggests a lack of arguments on their account.
I thank all those people who stick to the conversation and try to keep a balance between what is real and what is an assumption or a speculation.
if this is the case as you say - my apologies.
We can't prove you were here before under another username and you can't prove this is your only identity here, so this leads to nothing.
What do you say about my second question?
Why would Sony put so much resources in making a few people believe Michael is alive?
Oh and by the way, NO it's NOT an investigator's website... it's a DEATH HOAX investigators website. Look, I didn't name it, I just read the top of the page.
MJDHI is introduced on the index as:
The site is an investigation site, that is it's purpose. Although Michael Jackson is loved here, and we feel aggrieved at the way much of his life has been scrutinized by those other than the people here, this was never set up as a fan based site, but one in which people are invited to forensically examine the obviously strange and discordant events of June 25th and beyond.
Comments
I didn't get the answers to my questions because I asked you, whatever TS' intention is, even if he's related with Sony and Sony is trying to promote itself, why does it bother you to get clues from TS? If you don't believe TS is giving no clues or giving no info to us, simply do not follow TS and make your own mind about whatever you think clues are etc. What's the reason to come here and accuse TS and create this mess?
I have the right to question you as long as you try to create a mess on the forum and do it at the time when people started to attack TS. I do understand that you haven't made up your mind about the hoax and to investigate is good with considering EVERY single possibility but all I see in your posts is you're blaming TS. It seems like you're looking at the issue from ONE SIDE only. You should try to see the big picture.
It's MY choice to decide to keep on writing. You have no right to judge me for my decision. I didn't claim that I'm sure about it, I directly wrote that I didn't find you sincere. And it's my opinion.
You wrote that you came here to "warn" us and you "did" it so "well".
I have nothing more to say to you. Enough I wasted my time with this.
Firstly, I want to state that I respect PureLove's opinion, although I disagree with it.
Now... During the period TS made this redirect there was a question raised in this forum. When people learned about his/her redirect started making suggestions about what he/she wanted to mean. This post was long. Could anyone understand what he/she meant with it? No, most people proposed something different. But, this is not the main point. All attention was concentrated in this post. In the question "why not in any other post?" most people answer "because it was the most relevant". But this is not the right answer. The right answer is that this was the most suitable redirect for TS, whether it was made by good purpose or bad purpose. So, by saying that the redirects suitable to TS's purposes are the relevant ones is a great problem, since TS's purpose is unknown.
Do not use my posts partly in order to make them suit to your answers. This is the whole post of mine in which you answered:
Now, we can both keep our promises.
In regards to "clues", here's an interesting tid-bit. Recently I had a conversation about lyrics and their meaning with an old-timer in the music industry. He told me that it's common knowledge among musicians that David Bowie used to cut out words from newspapers and magazines and saved them in a draw. Whenever he was about to write a new song he just grabbed a hand full of these bits of paper, spread them out and started writing his lyrics by using the words he blindly picked.
Now here's a quote from Mr. Bowie himself:
Clues are mostly also based on interpretations, but that doesn't mean these interpretations are correct.
Uranus (that's one heck of a username) I think the reason others are reacting negatively to your posts is simply down to timing and while I can absolutely get where you're coming from that TS could simply be stringing people along, providing "clues", waiting for people to interpret them and then picking one to redirect to, thus making it up as he goes along, that would imply he's either messing with us for personal pleasure or for sinister reasons. You seem convinced that being affiliated with Sony means sinister intentions, whereas many of us simply don't see what Sony has to gain by messing with a few thousand hoaxers. When I said the reaction from some to you is down to timing I meant that you just joined, having obviously read and formed opinions on the reactions to TS for quite a while, waiting till the questions surrounding his authenticity were raised and then diving in with grim warnings. Now not everyone here believes in TS and that's fine but why wait till all the commotion started to state this strong opinion, you've obviously had doubts about his intentions for a while. The fact that you seem so fixated on this and seem reluctant to discuss the bigger picture as to why it would be such a bad thing for him to be affiliated with Sony or other matters connected to the hoax raises red flags for many. The warnings you've given about not blindly following him have been stated by many of us here, and I doubt anyone is 100% sure who he is. Therefore many of us keep our objective hat on and decide how relevant each "clue" is/might be. This thing between you and some others is just going round in circles, either you believe TS is genuine or not, if you don't you don't have to read the redirects or the interpretations, nor worry that we're all being brainwashed by the "cult of TS/Sony". Sure every adventure is more thrilling when there's a shadowy bad guy pretending to be one of the good guys, but until TS starts using any influence he has in a negative way in my book he's still one of the good guys.
Please people, we are trying to figure some things out and we are discussing possiblities not truths. How do you know that I waited until the perfect timing? Perhaps you know my timetable as well? It is you making corcles over and over again on the same things. I DID NOT BLAME ANYONE AND I HAVE STATED THIS A HUNDREND OF TIMES IN MY POSTS! Please read all the posts before coming up with an idea. This is a post of mine to PureLove written yesterday. I WILL NOT REPEAT THE SAME THNNGS AGAIN AND AGAIN:
I totally agree!
And that is why, before analyzing a clue we shoud judge whether it can be interpreted as a clue. Then we should search for all the possible interpretations of a reasonable clue. And finally, choose the most logically based interpretetion of this clue.
This you say is true
This conflict here was unexpected for me and I have been very frustrated by several posts.
I agree with you trustno1.
Thanks for your post.
L.O.V.E.
Oh really and what must we do to judge if a clue can be a clue? And what about the interpretations, there can be a lot and they can all be wrong even if they make some sense. But sense in regards to what exactly? How can we oppose that clue and to what in order to know if it makes sense or not? But what kind of clues are we talking about? Michael being alive or not? This is all a matter of perspective.
"Learn to think for yourself, find your own ideas and your own voice as you read, view or listen to"
There is a difference when a person is geniunely stating an opinion and when someone speaks to someone in a tone of superiority.
Now as far as clues and when to accept them for truth, that is only up to you as an individual of what you choose to interpret (imagine) as the truth. What your definition of fact (truth) is and what mine is will be different. I did answer you about my thoughts on SONY and the connection to Michael. I answered you with actual video proof using Puff's post of why I believed that not just speculation.
<!-- m -->http://www.successconsciousness.com/index_000014.htm<!-- m -->
Now Ur anus no offense but, I always read and interpret this name like I wrote it. lol
Yes I have a potty mind. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Peace
I mean, let's face it, in reality, all we are doing here is shooting the shit with a bunch of our friends. This hoax will go on with or without us. We play an integral part as extras and lab rats, in my opinion, but just like lab rats, there is no "wrong" answer... we cannot possibly do the wrong thing or make the wrong decisions or adhere to the wrong belief because recording how we move and think and act as a group is very likely the idea. I mean... MJ's comeback isn't contingent on our actions. That's sort of insane to assume that the man is going to let the culmination of a (my opinion) 25 year life legacy project rest on the shoulders of a small group of completely unaware internet users, who had better not do the wrong thing as a group even if they don't know what that wrong thing is... or else no MJ for you!
Yeah no. Not gonna happen.
So whatever. I'm having a good time with this hoax and TS helps break up the down time. And it irritates me that haters perpetually feel the need to come here and troll the forum and try to stop me from having a good time. Like I'm some blind moron who lives in fantasy land and needs to be enlightened. 17 months of this crap and I grow weary. For the 456459745th time, non-believers should get an escort to the door.
I smell some seriously shady shit going on with this topic. All things considered, the usernames and the affiliations. Somethings up with this. I don't know what but something isn't right.
Plus I just worked my ass off the last 10 days and I still have no day off til Christmas and I'm cranky.
Oh and by the way, NO it's NOT an investigator's website... it's a DEATH HOAX investigators website. Look, I didn't name it, I just read the top of the page.
Well said bec. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a test group but I'm definitely here voluntarily. I sometimes feel that I really get what's going on with the hoax and well, the world, and to be honest, I would rather know and be a part of it then be completely ignorant in that I simply don't know. I can't believe that this hoax has flown completely over the heads of millions and millions of people.
With all the pot-stirring that's been going on lately, it's only reasonable to assume that it would happen on this forum as well.
I think the main reason for the hoax is for love, I really do believe that. I think if people could just open their hearts and minds to each other, we could achieve peace for the entire world where we work together to better ourselves and the Earth. I really think that is what Michael has always wanted and I can't think of any reason why anyone should ever object to that. For this, and for the fact that there's no doubt in my mind that Michael is alive, is why I choose to be here everyday.
I can associate with the lab rat feeling. This is exactly what I feel has been going on for too many years. It took a form of mind control experiment to get us here in the first place and we have been held down here for too long and unfortunately because we have been made to be blind, it will take the courage and faith of someone who can 'see' to use these same tactics to free us. Once we can see for ourselves we won't need this form of guidance but to get to the end of the tunnel, we do! and I thank Michael for having the strong sense of personal responsibility and courage and for loving us 'more'. I trust Michael because he understands love and he trusts love and he understands our blindness. It really is all for love, for peace, for unity and for fun. One of the main things about Michael is that he knew how to be like a child, to be completely in the moment, to laugh, to play with no inhibitions and in complete innocence. This is what is missing and this, for me is what this is all for.
I can associate with the lab rat feeling. This is exactly what I feel has been going on for too many years. It took a form of mind control experiment to get us here in the first place and we have been held down here for too long and unfortunately because we have been made to be blind, it will take the courage and faith of someone who can 'see' to use these same tactics to free us. Once we can see for ourselves we won't need this form of guidance but to get to the end of the tunnel, we do! and I thank Michael for having the strong sense of personal responsibility and courage and for loving us 'more'. I trust Michael because he understands love and he trusts love and he understands our blindness. It really is all for love, for peace, for unity and for fun. One of the main things about Michael is that he knew how to be like a child, to be completely in the moment, to laugh, to play with no inhibitions and in complete innocence. This is what is missing and this, for me is what this is all for.[/quote]
Beautifully written Andrea & Believe777! Michael has maintained a child's heart despite many tough challenges in his life. He could easily have become bitter and cynical, but he chose to make himself a channel for LOVE instead. He is a living example of what we all have the potential of being if only we allow ourselves to let go of worldly doubts and fears and let the UNIVERSAL POWER OF LOVE take hold.
Beautifully written Andrea & Believe777! Michael has maintained a child's heart despite many tough challenges in his life. He could easily have become bitter and cynical, but he chose to make himself a channel for LOVE instead. He is a living example of what we all have the potential of being if only we allow ourselves to let go of worldly doubts and fears and let the UNIVERSAL POWER OF LOVE take hold.[/quote]
Amen! This really is about expanding our minds and opening our hearts to the only thing that really matters in life and that is LOVE, Peace and Unity.
it is wonderful to see that others have seen the true purpose of this "hoax." We need to believe in ourselves and we need to believe that Michael is 100% in total control of everything else! "Keep the Faith" and "Trust" in Michael...just enjoy the "Show", everything is going to be ok in the end...BELIEVE!
I love you guys!!! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
This hoax began before TS, right, but without him it wouldn't last so long. Look at the today redirect, it's not time yet to give an explanation? It's about a week of chaos and that is the only thing he could say? Sorry, but I personally don't buy it.
If this hoax has a message to spread, I don't think it could go on without the hoax believers.
And for the trolling part..This is not trolling, we know very well that this is a hoax death website, but how many people are here to make up their minds? That is what we are doing, I'm sorry if those kind of comments are annoying you, but there is freedom of speech here and we should respect each other opinions.
Please don't mind that I speak like this, but it is not fair to the others ...
2. Why on earth would Sony be interested of promoting the idea of Michael being alive for a bunch of believers that DON'T COUNT is the sales figures?
In this great adventure MJ and Sony and TS and TMZ are playing in the same team - JMO.
And if I'm wrong - so be it.
Love you Michael <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Reminds you of something or someone? Anyway...
Firstly, my username is Uranus. Uranus was the father of the Titans in the ancient greek mythology. Uranus is also one of the nine planets of our solar system and as a word means "sky" in greek. Has anybody problem with the fact that I love the sky? If yes, I don't care.
It is obvious that people write posts while they have read the main article and a couple of other posts. Thus, we end up with posts like "you are a hater, you pretend to be the one who will enlighten us, you changed your username etc etc". Have you considered how ridiculus would those comments be if this was not the case? This is not the case as I have replied with my many posts, but I cannot prove it. However, I don't have to do so. Posts are written in order to share opinions and knowledge. This means that people should judge the words of the poster and not the poster himself. When people attack the poster intead of answering to the posts with their opinions, this strongly suggests a lack of arguments on their account.
I thank all those people who stick to the conversation and try to keep a balance between what is real and what is an assumption or a speculation.
L.O.V.E.
We can't prove you were here before under another username and you can't prove this is your only identity here, so this leads to nothing.
What do you say about my second question?
Why would Sony put so much resources in making a few people believe Michael is alive?
MJDHI is introduced on the index as: