History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
But he didn't choose to "die" in those dates, he chose 6/25/2009. He could have chosen any of those dates too if they fit well with the other numerology part of the hoax. I don't think that I need to write them all once more. You know them very well.
And it is YOU who say that it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040 but it DOES work so well. And like you said, if you collect the numbers one by one it makes 6 and it has a sense because we know what 6 means in this hoax. It makes sense in both ways and it WORKS in both ways as well.
Are you familiar with multicontextual research PureLove? If so, you would have known that there are countless events which hold numerology. Does that mean that all these events are planned..?
Guys, I think that multicontextual research is the answer to our investigation! I searched a bit about multicontextual logic. I don't know exactly how this works but I definetely know it deserves great research... It seems like not everything needs to be planned, but if you know how things work you can control the proccess and they evolve for you. I know my post is confusing, but I don't know that much and I am too excited to explain.
History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
But he didn't choose to "die" in those dates, he chose 6/25/2009. He could have chosen any of those dates too if they fit well with the other numerology part of the hoax. I don't think that I need to write them all once more. You know them very well.
And it is YOU who say that it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040 but it DOES work so well. And like you said, if you collect the numbers one by one it makes 6 and it has a sense because we know what 6 means in this hoax. It makes sense in both ways and it WORKS in both ways as well.
Are you familiar with multicontextual research PureLove? If so, you would have known that there are countless events which hold numerology. Does that mean that all these events are planned..?
Guys, I think that multicontextual research is the answer to our investigation! I searched a bit about multicontextual logic. I don't know exactly how this works but I definetely know it deserves great research... It seems like not everything needs to be planned, but if you know how things work you can control the proccess and they evolve for you. I know my post is confusing, but I don't know that much and I am too excited to explain.
Thanks a lot *Mo*!
Well, it's not so easy, and you can't plan everything and you can't control everything.....I don't know if MJ is familiar with multicontextual research....
You said this is the answer to all our research which is a pretty sweeping statement, can you explain why and what exactly it gives us the answer to?
I am sorry for that. I do not know too much about multicontextual logic, and Puff you are right that not everything can be controled. I was just too excited. But, I think we should search about it. I do not know much more than you. The only thing I know is that we should stick to thinking for ourselves. Sorry for disorientating the conversation.
Uranus,
-What is your point, view, conclusion about TS?
-What, according to you, should we "find" to either debunk or support TS and regarding to what?
-Why on the first place did you call to our attention opening this thread?, what is the aim?
History tour began in 1996 and Michael used this Spaceship 2040 which exactly points to his "death" date.
So do these dates in 2009:
12/19/2009
11/20/2009
10/21/2009
09/22/2009
08/23/2009
07/24/2009
05/26/2009
04/27/2009
03/28/2009
01/30/2009
Also, those who read up on numerology know it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040. It should be 6+2+5+2+0+0+9=24 -> 2+4=6.
But he didn't choose to "die" in those dates, he chose 6/25/2009. He could have chosen any of those dates too if they fit well with the other numerology part of the hoax. I don't think that I need to write them all once more. You know them very well.
And it is YOU who say that it doesn't work like 6+25+2009=2040 but it DOES work so well. And like you said, if you collect the numbers one by one it makes 6 and it has a sense because we know what 6 means in this hoax. It makes sense in both ways and it WORKS in both ways as well.
Are you familiar with multicontextual research PureLove? If so, you would have known that there are countless events which hold numerology. Does that mean that all these events are planned..?
Guys, I think that multicontextual research is the answer to our investigation! I searched a bit about multicontextual logic. I don't know exactly how this works but I definetely know it deserves great research... It seems like not everything needs to be planned, but if you know how things work you can control the proccess and they evolve for you. I know my post is confusing, but I don't know that much and I am too excited to explain.
Thanks a lot *Mo*!
Well, it's not so easy, and you can't plan everything and you can't control everything.....I don't know if MJ is familiar with multicontextual research....
Indeed, it's not so easy, and searching 'a bit' about multicontextual logic when one knows nothing about it usually results in more confusion instead of bringing clarity. That is why I don't understand your statement at all Uranus, because it takes quite some time to "get the point" of multicontextual research.
Multicontextual research is a research based in multy-context <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: --> ...or something like that, but is a search eeeeeh! and whitin a context <!-- s:ugeek: -->:ugeek:<!-- s:ugeek: -->
And let me make it clear that I don’t mind sincere criticism, because truth can stand up to questions and objections—the truth will prevail! The problem is when people make empty accusations, with no evidence, such as “TS is nonsense”; statements like this with no evidence are useless, and I won’t even try to respond to them.
The silence of TS is understood by the above statement. If the statements without any evidence are useless he already told us he won't respond.
Please, people, I would like us to stick in the conversation because there are some very interesting points made around here. I think that they could upgrade our means of investigation. Let's not transform this conversation to a vendetta between TS supporters and TS non-supporters.
L.O.V.E.
Passing the test does not mean gullibly believing anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it; you have always been asked to verify the evidence for yourself, and debunk it if you can, etc. However, those who refuse anything and everything that TS says, merely because TS is the one who says it—regardless of any and all evidence that has never yet been debunked—they are not at the A+ level on the report card! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
There are two other major areas of TS criticism. The first complaint is that TMZ and TS are just playing around; and the second complaint is that TS return/bam predictions have not come true
However, although the critics will no doubt be eager to use this reasoning as soon as summer is over, there is one minor problem with this reasoning—and that problem is the following list of the others who would also have to be fake, using the same basic reasoning: Jermaine, 5 Brothers, TMZ, Paris, Ortega, Janet, and even MJ himself!
However, if we wait till the public knows: nobody will pay attention to us then, because everybody will know by then from the mainstream media. If we rattle cages now: then when it comes out in public, they will be back to find out how we knew BEFORE it came out publicly! Then they will be much more ready to listen to the rest of the message!
Although, I have to say that even if the hoax believers are not that many, the hoax rumour runs strong. The last two months I, alone, have noticed three references that MJ is alive through the media and I live thousands of miles away from the U.S. And this rumour spreads by hoax believers. All of my friends mock me about telling them that MJ may be alive, yet they know and they spread the rumour as well. So, I cannot be sure how much indifferent this situation would be to Sony in a commercial aspect. Yet, this is just a thought, without blaming them for spreading the hoax for commercial reasons. It is just a possiblity.
That was good info to know. The seed has been planted and is now growing. I do hope you didn't take offense to how I read the name you chose. I know what the name is from and even the name when referring to the planet I still giggle. It is a silly thing.
I have no problem with you wanting to have a genuine conversation of things you are unsure of. All of us at one point have been unsure of things. We all at one point needed a guide, someone with patience to teach us. We didn't come to the forum in full knowledge like those who were here before us.
That is what I am having a problem with. What makes someone a troll? What makes someone a hater? When can you intelligently see the difference between a troll and someone who genuinely needs some help understanding the "hoax"?
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15180<!-- l -->
That is just one example of how easily people go for the trolls. Then when someone like Uranus comes here to begin this journey of investigating he is automatically told to get lost. He is told he is a hater. He is told he can't be welcomed. Intelligently discern the difference betwen a troll and a geniune new believer.
Time in observing a person and their words will always tell you what their true motivation is and what they are here for.
Is this an exclusive club now? Is this club only for believers? Is this club now discriminating and saying non-believers should be escorted to the door because they are needing some answers from the veteran "hoaxers"? This "hoax" wasn't created to just entertain certain individuals and if it interrupts their fun then the person should be tossed out.
Isn't it the job of Michael's army of L.O.V.E. to be patient and help the new believers? I do not see this happening. I see many talk about how wonderful Michael is, how he didn't let what happened to him make him bitter. I see people talking about how this "hoax" was created to be about love and then turn around in the same breath and tell a new believer to get lost.
How is that being an example of Michael or an example of love?
[youtube:1s5xgwon]
Actually, there are many other wrong theories out there; but I won’t go into them now. I have already gone into great lengths on the most important aspects: the main reasons for the hoax, and the strongest evidences that this is a hoax (not accident, murder, or suicide).
There are still many hoax believers on MJDHI and other forums, who don’t read the updates and/or don’t think that NWO & EOW is MJ’s message. If we keep waiting for them to inform themselves, they probably never will. But those who do read these updates can help, if you want to: will you be there? If so, read on.
You can help both before and after bamsday. This applies to all forums out there, not just MJDHI. It probably won’t help to just ask others to read the updates; many will not, because they are long and/or other reasons. But you can be familiar with the updates; and then you can be ready with the right questions and/or answers, whenever something related is discussed in any thread.
You can also kindly remind them that the issue is what MJ believes, and his message; others are free to have their own beliefs, but the hoax forums are about MJ and his reasons for the hoax. And please do not get into unkind arguments with anyone; remember, it’s all for L.O.V.E. Preparing for bamsday means understanding the message, helping others to understand it, and most of all: living the L.O.V.E. yourself!
[youtube:1s5xgwon] My daughter and I watched TII again last night. I noticed that Michael only sang Earth song ALL the way through. The other songs were just snippets. What does that say? To me the objective of Michael was to make sure everyone heard that song. That is the awareness I would think he is referring to when he said that's why he writes those kind of songs. Be the change we want to see in the world. It starts with looking in the mirror at our own actions. So in saying all that I will take back what I wrote to Uranus before when I said he was focusing on the simple minded stuff. Who am I to say what is simple minded or not.
Side note: In TII during Michael's Billie Jean scene when the music stops and he starts to do just the dance moves at the start when there is only a beat he says: "Keep Watching 3 times" lol
The fact that TS keeps his identity secret is a bit strange…
In one of his/her posts he/she said that even if he/she revealed his/her identity, we wouldn’t believe him/her and that there was no point doing that. Well, we have passed through much more difficult matters than the identity of a person and we have learned when to beLIEve and when not to. As to whether knowing the identity of your major informer is necessary or not, the answer is absolutely yes. The information given on a subject is a most important part of understanding the facts, but the identity of the source of this information is equally important. This is because considering something as a clue just because someone claims it to be a clue, can control and direct your search and conclusion even if you have an excellent ability of judging.
Some people say that TS’s identity should remain secret because if he/she is someone near the MJ camp everyone will believe him/her and follow him/her without judging and acting on their own will, while if he/she has no close connection to the MJ camp everyone will reject him/her and stop believing him/her. Well, this does not stand as an excuse at all. We do not need communicational tricks to form our opinions and the power of someone’s words should stand only for what his/her words are and not for how he/she promotes them. For example, when you say “prejudice is ignorance”, that idea can stand on its own despite who said it or how he/she promoted him/herself. After all, we can judge, criticize and think for ourselves in order to choose who we listen to and who we not, and this is the only way to support MJ and those who strive for humanity’s sake.
Let me point out something straight ahead… If TS’s revealed his/her identity Michael would definitely not be in danger. MJ’s supposed enemies are very powerful and have all the means necessary to achieve their goals. If MJ is a threat to them they would do everything possible to stop him. I don’t think that anyone argues whether those building the New World Order are capable of espionage or not. Actually they are capable of far more terrible things. So, if we have noticed that Michael is alive and plans to fight them, they have definitely noticed it too. And if TS is holding key information about MJ, considering that his/her acts via the internet are enough for them to detect him/her, he/she would have been caught by them by now. Moreover, MJ would never jeopardize his mission giving valuable information about it to someone that could be detected by his enemies and putting him/her in danger. So, the conclusion of this is that TS cannot have key information that put Michael’s life in danger.
As far as TS’s secrecy about his/her identity is concerned, I tend to believe that his/her connection to Sony is far closer than he/she has been willing to admit until now. Although, this is not necessarily bad, it is a bit suspicious. My search in the internet has provided some interesting information.
The fact that TS had always much information about MJ and his CD’s and the “This IS It” DVD before this information was available to anyone else can show a relation to Sony without much explanation and search.
TS also had always much information about TMZ. He/ She seemed to predict when they would publish specific subjects, have information from the inside and have knowledge of specific data and events before they would become known and happen, such as MJ police files and Murray’s trials. This can also suggest a connection to Sony, because Sony collaborates with TMZ, as the creator of a browser for mobile phones to establish connection to the TMZ channel and provide mobile phone users with access to TMZ news. That means that someone inside Sony can have TMZ information before it is published. Here is a link about that:
<!-- m -->http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/media/756.html<!-- m -->
Moreover, TS successfully predicted a relation to the 2012 film with the MJ hoax, before the film was available in the cinemas and generally in the public. As we know the major character’s name was Jackson. This suggests a relation between TS and Sony as well. The film was distributed by Columbia Pictures, which is owned by Sony. The related web pages are in the following link:
1) <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_(film<!-- m -->)
2) <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures<!-- m -->
Finally, about the time that TS started his/her redirects(October 2009), Sony had shortly before announced that they would start the project "This Is Also It" due to the success of "This Is It", which would be about other dead starts and similar to "This IS It". They claimed this investment to be most profitable. One of the first sites to announce that was "The Huffington Post", which is a site used by TS for his/her clues. The mentioned article about the announcement is on the following link:
<!-- m -->http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-boro ... 37576.html<!-- m -->
This set of coincidences closely related to TS, statistically strongly suggests that TS is very close to the Sony camp. Note that my search was very rapid, which means that many more things can be found about TS’s relation to Sony, with a better and more thorough search.
All in all, TS's identity is not important to what we think or believe about Michael, or it is not more important than anyone else's identity. However, the fact that Sony profits from MJ and that they have abused him in the past raises concerns. The fact that those who have said that MJ is alive, such as Akon, Riley and Eros Ramazzotti are related to Sony and the first two profit from the new album’s sales, raises concerns as well. And I strongly believe that it is our right to know the source of our information, since we fight equally to TS and everyone else here, for more than a year now.
I neither blame nor accuse, I only suggest caution, awareness and thinking for ourselves.
I've read through the forums before and have seen people question the validity of TS and their posts but they were either quickly shunned away, banned or made to look foolish.
I would like to know who they are and what they do but until the information can prove to be skeptical, I will still follow the posts. Like Souza said, people need to stop following him like sheep and think.
That was good info to know. The seed has been planted and is now growing. I do hope you didn't take offense to how I read the name you chose. I know what the name is from and even the name when referring to the planet I still giggle. It is a silly thing.
I have no problem with you wanting to have a genuine conversation of things you are unsure of. All of us at one point have been unsure of things. We all at one point needed a guide, someone with patience to teach us. We didn't come to the forum in full knowledge like those who were here before us.
That is what I am having a problem with. What makes someone a troll? What makes someone a hater? When can you intelligently see the difference between a troll and someone who genuinely needs some help understanding the "hoax"?
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15180<!-- l -->
That is just one example of how easily people go for the trolls. Then when someone like Uranus comes here to begin this journey of investigating he is automatically told to get lost. He is told he is a hater. He is told he can't be welcomed. Intelligently discern the difference betwen a troll and a geniune new believer.
Time in observing a person and their words will always tell you what their true motivation is and what they are here for.
<!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Thank you for your support and your reasonable words!
The truth is that I am not that much of a new member here, I was just not active. For more than a year I've been watching(not blindly but always being mindful about them) daily the redirects and some of the threads in this forum without having a username and without making posts. So, I am aware of most of the things having been said and I have formed my own opinion.
I respect your opinions and everyone else's. But, our common goal is to find out what happened. This article aimed exactly at that point, not at which opinion is correct and which is not. How to examine the clues or how to find them is the point and perhaps reexamining. TS is part of our investigation, so whether we accept it or not the investigation is connected to him/her no matter what his/her motives are. And as I have stated before:
I don't like that this is the example that I use, but it is the fresher example in my memory. TIAI 11/24, PureLove's post.
Firstly, I want to state that I respect PureLove's opinion, although I disagree with it.
Now... During the period TS made this redirect there was a question raised in this forum. When people learned about his/her redirect started making suggestions about what he/she wanted to mean. This post was long. Could anyone understand what he/she meant with it? No, most people proposed something different. But, this is not the main point. All attention was concentrated in this post. In the question "why not in any other post?" most people answer "because it was the most relevant". But this is not the right answer. The right answer is that this was the most suitable redirect for TS, whether it was made by good purpose or bad purpose. So, by saying that the redirects suitable to TS's purposes are the relevant ones is a great problem, since TS's purpose is unknown.
And then follows your beautiful answer about reality and illusion. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
But, the reason for this article is contained up above. And that's all. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I've just watched Billie Jean TII performance again and yes !!!
He's saying "keep watchin'..." 3 times , I can't believe this.
Back had to be Michael <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> I'm so nervous, I can't believe this.
And someone else here is Michael too, I think. Michael is here, I think Michael is here..... or at least Back is here.... the best proof he is alive and well <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
OK, maybe I lost it completely, but why else would he say Keep watchin'?! My head will explode some day <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Ok. My turn. Now that everyone is done throwing things... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I am always amazed when fights break out over the miscellaneous. As for me, I don't give one flying fish if I am observed being spoonfed! Especially when my "feeder" has understanding of complex knowledge I don't have yet, impeccable logic, and the patience <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> to do this for me. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> To be sure, it will be scrutinized and digested just as diligently as information I feed myself, but there is NO shame in admitting one requires a teacher, or in sitting at his feet!
For now, it doesn't matter who TS really is. Can we just enjoy the mystery, and use the temporary blind he is hiding behind, to simply focus on the content of his "teaching"/message? He said it, and someone here said it too.
I believe the message would eventually reveal any ulterior the motive, anyway, so his motives shouldn't be the main focus either. And talk about swallowing things whole without examination, you guys KNOW, if he were MJ, that would mostly be the case, as alas, our King can say or do no wrong... <!-- s --><!-- s -->
He told us that if he did tell us who he is, we would not even believe him, and he could be right. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> All hell would break loose if he said he was another genius, say...MJ's twin brother. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> And there would be 99 pages of troll alerts and bashings, over the kindness of such a GIFT "trespassing" here, on "our" <!-- s:x -->:x<!-- s:x --> forum. I think people are going to regret how they have treated those who are revealed to be MJ's loved ones here. Just saying. <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
I'm not a complete dimwit, but, I have to admit some of the subjects TS has brought to the forefront, I would have never thought to connect with Michael Jackson. I NEEDED help to see this connection. Now I see. At least some serious possibility.
If it all proves to be a wild ride, no harm no foul. Sheeeesh. It is not the end of the world, I simply misjudged error as truth, got punked (in an ARG, <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> btw, doi! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> ) by another magician. My money and stuff is safe. My virtue and self-respect is intact. Health continues. How have I been harmed? Practice makes perfect, I'll do better next time. Live and learn, not live and claw each other up. Amongst other things, we are supposed to enjoy this, and each other, I beLIEve... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Admit it, we NEEDED some guidance, SOME anchoring, here. Certain sharp folk hit upon the truth of some of the situations right away, and never wavered. But, then scary rumors came from outer space (or the media--same thing, alien "intelligence") and all the others were crying again, like a nursery full of newborns. TS seems to be a steadying influence, offering some direction, and a person of intrigue, himself.
Even if the secret motive of TS is to commandeer The REAL Greatest Show On Earth, like some ego maniac with no life of his own, we all kinda sorta beLIEve MJ is still alive, and in control---right?
Or is that what people are afraid of? That we have been hijacked, and all is lost??? <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
If MJ lives, it is only a matter of time before he cleans this interloper's clock! After 16 months, (if I didn't know better, through months and months of research) I would say, either the King is dead, or else, he is alive, and TS is approved or even APPOINTED by MJ, to say exactly what he has said to us.
I prefer to think that "TS" stands for no one's actual given name. I think it means "The Scholar" <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> I hope it does. I love that. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Its her: I cannot begin to tell you how much I love your above post! Thank you.
I am fairly new to all this, compared to many of you. I have from the start of Michael's disappearance thought that things might be "off"- but until looking into things deeper after reading Pearl Jr's book this winter, I had no clue how organized all this seems to be. Reading the threads here and the different opinions and theories of posters is valuable, but TS's posts were the organizing guide, for lack of a better word.
Through my profession and my training, I have always been taught to take information and then to assess if I find it valuable, truthful, biased etc- so, just because we have This Source (T.S) of information does not mean we cannot decide for ourselves what we make of the information. As a matter of fact, he/she points that out numerous times.
One of the points is to evaluate messages independent of the identity of the person delivering it- something we are not used to. If you think about it, we always consider the source which is not a bad practice in itself, but it can lead to biased information. Let's say you trust ABC news, but not Fox news: would you not then believe anything coming from one, but discard the other? Now, what if Fox actually reported something true- you might miss it. Or, if ABC picked up something fake- then you would be duped, if you only go by the source and NOT the message itself.
For me, I am not a numbers person. But after reading TS posts re proof for the hoax and against murder I learned some invaluable information that I had not considered before (the social scientist part of me has over the years totally overruled the mathematical part… )- and it makes sense. Now, do I think that what I read is absolute truth? No, but it sure makes sense.
So, my attitude is skeptical optimism. It seems that TS has not led us astray or tried to influence us in in any undue way. Like Its her said, we ourselves make the choice to believe or not believe – therefore if we are duped, it is based on a personal choice each of us made. No one MADE US do it. It’s called personal freedom of choice (and lets be happy we have it!)- let’s all be adults and accept this responsibility.
Its her: I cannot begin to tell you how much I love your above post! Thank you.
I am fairly new to all this, compared to many of you. I have from the start of Michael's disappearance thought that things might be "off"- but until looking into things deeper after reading Pearl Jr's book this winter, I had no clue how organized all this seems to be. Reading the threads here and the different opinions and theories of posters is valuable, but TS's posts were the organizing guide, for lack of a better word.
Through my profession and my training, I have always been taught to take information and then to assess if I find it valuable, truthful, biased etc- so, just because we have This Source (T.S) of information does not mean we cannot decide for ourselves what we make of the information. As a matter of fact, he/she points that out numerous times.
One of the points is to evaluate messages independent of the identity of the person delivering it- something we are not used to. If you think about it, we always consider the source which is not a bad practice in itself, but it can lead to biased information. Let's say you trust ABC news, but not Fox news: would you not then believe anything coming from one, but discard the other? Now, what if Fox actually reported something true- you might miss it. Or, if ABC picked up something fake- then you would be duped, if you only go by the source and NOT the message itself.
For me, I am not a numbers person. But after reading TS posts re proof for the hoax and against murder I learned some invaluable information that I had not considered before (the social scientist part of me has over the years totally overruled the mathematical part… )- and it makes sense. Now, do I think that what I read is absolute truth? No, but it sure makes sense.
So, my attitude is skeptical optimism. It seems that TS has not led us astray or tried to influence us in in any undue way. Like Its her said, we ourselves make the choice to believe or not believe – therefore if we are duped, it is based on a personal choice each of us made. No one MADE US do it. It’s called personal freedom of choice (and lets be happy we have it!)- let’s all be adults and accept this responsibility.
Well, thank you! And you are welcome. What blesses me about your post is that I can feel you are becoming as manic as the rest of us, as we discover new things on this Forum. <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> Interestingly enough, I thought of your user name as a nice tame bowl of oil burning steadily, peacefully, for all time; but NOW I feel like you've begun to run, and dance around with a blazing torch! It is great! I love it. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> Investigating and studying the Truth about Michael Jackson and his Message here, does tend to do that to people! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> And, you are SO right; we need to consider the source---but only after we have considered the facts brought forth by the source. It has been too easy to make snap judgments based only on source. Well said!!
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Is your cat a message for all us? <!-- s
Guys, I think that multicontextual research is the answer to our investigation! I searched a bit about multicontextual logic. I don't know exactly how this works but I definetely know it deserves great research... It seems like not everything needs to be planned, but if you know how things work you can control the proccess and they evolve for you. I know my post is confusing, but I don't know that much and I am too excited to explain.
Thanks a lot *Mo*!
Well, it's not so easy, and you can't plan everything and you can't control everything.....I don't know if MJ is familiar with multicontextual research....
I don't get it... <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
What do you mean?
I am sorry for that. I do not know too much about multicontextual logic, and Puff you are right that not everything can be controled. I was just too excited. But, I think we should search about it. I do not know much more than you. The only thing I know is that we should stick to thinking for ourselves. Sorry for disorientating the conversation.
Well, you talked about multicontextual logic. That is why I asqued you.
-What is your point, view, conclusion about TS?
-What, according to you, should we "find" to either debunk or support TS and regarding to what?
-Why on the first place did you call to our attention opening this thread?, what is the aim?
I see it as "fighting and not knowing about what" <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> , in other words, fighting for the sake of it.....
Indeed, it's not so easy, and searching 'a bit' about multicontextual logic when one knows nothing about it usually results in more confusion instead of bringing clarity. That is why I don't understand your statement at all Uranus, because it takes quite some time to "get the point" of multicontextual research.
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I don't think TS has a problem with sincere questions and objections. The silence of TS is understood by the above statement. If the statements without any evidence are useless he already told us he won't respond. That was good info to know. The seed has been planted and is now growing. I do hope you didn't take offense to how I read the name you chose. I know what the name is from and even the name when referring to the planet I still giggle. It is a silly thing.
I have no problem with you wanting to have a genuine conversation of things you are unsure of. All of us at one point have been unsure of things. We all at one point needed a guide, someone with patience to teach us. We didn't come to the forum in full knowledge like those who were here before us.
That is what I am having a problem with. What makes someone a troll? What makes someone a hater? When can you intelligently see the difference between a troll and someone who genuinely needs some help understanding the "hoax"?
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That is just one example of how easily people go for the trolls. Then when someone like Uranus comes here to begin this journey of investigating he is automatically told to get lost. He is told he is a hater. He is told he can't be welcomed. Intelligently discern the difference betwen a troll and a geniune new believer.
Time in observing a person and their words will always tell you what their true motivation is and what they are here for.
Is this an exclusive club now? Is this club only for believers? Is this club now discriminating and saying non-believers should be escorted to the door because they are needing some answers from the veteran "hoaxers"? This "hoax" wasn't created to just entertain certain individuals and if it interrupts their fun then the person should be tossed out.
Isn't it the job of Michael's army of L.O.V.E. to be patient and help the new believers? I do not see this happening. I see many talk about how wonderful Michael is, how he didn't let what happened to him make him bitter. I see people talking about how this "hoax" was created to be about love and then turn around in the same breath and tell a new believer to get lost.
How is that being an example of Michael or an example of love?
[youtube:1s5xgwon]
My daughter and I watched TII again last night. I noticed that Michael only sang Earth song ALL the way through. The other songs were just snippets. What does that say? To me the objective of Michael was to make sure everyone heard that song. That is the awareness I would think he is referring to when he said that's why he writes those kind of songs. Be the change we want to see in the world. It starts with looking in the mirror at our own actions. So in saying all that I will take back what I wrote to Uranus before when I said he was focusing on the simple minded stuff. Who am I to say what is simple minded or not.
Side note: In TII during Michael's Billie Jean scene when the music stops and he starts to do just the dance moves at the start when there is only a beat he says: "Keep Watching 3 times" lol
I've read through the forums before and have seen people question the validity of TS and their posts but they were either quickly shunned away, banned or made to look foolish.
I would like to know who they are and what they do but until the information can prove to be skeptical, I will still follow the posts. Like Souza said, people need to stop following him like sheep and think.
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Thank you for your support and your reasonable words!
The truth is that I am not that much of a new member here, I was just not active. For more than a year I've been watching(not blindly but always being mindful about them) daily the redirects and some of the threads in this forum without having a username and without making posts. So, I am aware of most of the things having been said and I have formed my own opinion.
I respect your opinions and everyone else's. But, our common goal is to find out what happened. This article aimed exactly at that point, not at which opinion is correct and which is not. How to examine the clues or how to find them is the point and perhaps reexamining. TS is part of our investigation, so whether we accept it or not the investigation is connected to him/her no matter what his/her motives are. And as I have stated before:
And then follows your beautiful answer about reality and illusion. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
But, the reason for this article is contained up above. And that's all. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
L.O.V.E.
I know he says keep wathing at the beggining of the trailer for TII
Unfortunately they don't.
Only the ones who already believed come here
He's saying "keep watchin'..." 3 times , I can't believe this.
Back had to be Michael <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> I'm so nervous, I can't believe this.
And someone else here is Michael too, I think. Michael is here, I think Michael is here..... or at least Back is here.... the best proof he is alive and well <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
OK, maybe I lost it completely, but why else would he say Keep watchin'?! My head will explode some day <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I am always amazed when fights break out over the miscellaneous. As for me, I don't give one flying fish if I am observed being spoonfed! Especially when my "feeder" has understanding of complex knowledge I don't have yet, impeccable logic, and the patience <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> to do this for me. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> To be sure, it will be scrutinized and digested just as diligently as information I feed myself, but there is NO shame in admitting one requires a teacher, or in sitting at his feet!
For now, it doesn't matter who TS really is. Can we just enjoy the mystery, and use the temporary blind he is hiding behind, to simply focus on the content of his "teaching"/message? He said it, and someone here said it too.
I believe the message would eventually reveal any ulterior the motive, anyway, so his motives shouldn't be the main focus either. And talk about swallowing things whole without examination, you guys KNOW, if he were MJ, that would mostly be the case, as alas, our King can say or do no wrong... <!-- s
He told us that if he did tell us who he is, we would not even believe him, and he could be right. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> All hell would break loose if he said he was another genius, say...MJ's twin brother. <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> And there would be 99 pages of troll alerts and bashings, over the kindness of such a GIFT "trespassing" here, on "our" <!-- s:x -->:x<!-- s:x --> forum. I think people are going to regret how they have treated those who are revealed to be MJ's loved ones here. Just saying. <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
I'm not a complete dimwit, but, I have to admit some of the subjects TS has brought to the forefront, I would have never thought to connect with Michael Jackson. I NEEDED help to see this connection. Now I see. At least some serious possibility.
If it all proves to be a wild ride, no harm no foul. Sheeeesh. It is not the end of the world, I simply misjudged error as truth, got punked (in an ARG, <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> btw, doi! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> ) by another magician. My money and stuff is safe. My virtue and self-respect is intact. Health continues. How have I been harmed? Practice makes perfect, I'll do better next time. Live and learn, not live and claw each other up. Amongst other things, we are supposed to enjoy this, and each other, I beLIEve... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Admit it, we NEEDED some guidance, SOME anchoring, here. Certain sharp folk hit upon the truth of some of the situations right away, and never wavered. But, then scary rumors came from outer space (or the media--same thing, alien "intelligence") and all the others were crying again, like a nursery full of newborns. TS seems to be a steadying influence, offering some direction, and a person of intrigue, himself.
Even if the secret motive of TS is to commandeer The REAL Greatest Show On Earth, like some ego maniac with no life of his own, we all kinda sorta beLIEve MJ is still alive, and in control---right?
Or is that what people are afraid of? That we have been hijacked, and all is lost??? <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
If MJ lives, it is only a matter of time before he cleans this interloper's clock! After 16 months, (if I didn't know better, through months and months of research) I would say, either the King is dead, or else, he is alive, and TS is approved or even APPOINTED by MJ, to say exactly what he has said to us.
I prefer to think that "TS" stands for no one's actual given name. I think it means "The Scholar" <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> I hope it does. I love that. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I am fairly new to all this, compared to many of you. I have from the start of Michael's disappearance thought that things might be "off"- but until looking into things deeper after reading Pearl Jr's book this winter, I had no clue how organized all this seems to be. Reading the threads here and the different opinions and theories of posters is valuable, but TS's posts were the organizing guide, for lack of a better word.
Through my profession and my training, I have always been taught to take information and then to assess if I find it valuable, truthful, biased etc- so, just because we have This Source (T.S) of information does not mean we cannot decide for ourselves what we make of the information. As a matter of fact, he/she points that out numerous times.
One of the points is to evaluate messages independent of the identity of the person delivering it- something we are not used to. If you think about it, we always consider the source which is not a bad practice in itself, but it can lead to biased information. Let's say you trust ABC news, but not Fox news: would you not then believe anything coming from one, but discard the other? Now, what if Fox actually reported something true- you might miss it. Or, if ABC picked up something fake- then you would be duped, if you only go by the source and NOT the message itself.
For me, I am not a numbers person. But after reading TS posts re proof for the hoax and against murder I learned some invaluable information that I had not considered before (the social scientist part of me has over the years totally overruled the mathematical part… )- and it makes sense. Now, do I think that what I read is absolute truth? No, but it sure makes sense.
So, my attitude is skeptical optimism. It seems that TS has not led us astray or tried to influence us in in any undue way. Like Its her said, we ourselves make the choice to believe or not believe – therefore if we are duped, it is based on a personal choice each of us made. No one MADE US do it. It’s called personal freedom of choice (and lets be happy we have it!)- let’s all be adults and accept this responsibility.
Well, thank you! And you are welcome. What blesses me about your post is that I can feel you are becoming as manic as the rest of us, as we discover new things on this Forum. <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> Interestingly enough, I thought of your user name as a nice tame bowl of oil burning steadily, peacefully, for all time; but NOW I feel like you've begun to run, and dance around with a blazing torch! It is great! I love it. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> Investigating and studying the Truth about Michael Jackson and his Message here, does tend to do that to people! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s