I don't get any of this ambulance stuff (with the camera resolution...flash stuff...reflection, neither with...just anything to do with these ambo pics or least of all, the wind on June 25th, how are we supposed to know that?)
I really want to be apart of this but I am just not getting it...maybe I'm just not smart enough.
I have a new theory....I think the pictures were taken inside the property...before the ambulance backed out of the gate....you can see the similar vines and the concrete wall..the reflection didn't show people in it...just the red car...but there could have easily been another red car inside the estate....or it was photoshopped into the photo later to make it look like the pictures were taken as the ambulance was leaving..
I don't get any of this ambulance stuff (with the camera resolution...flash stuff...reflection, neither with...just anything to do with these ambo pics or least of all, the wind on June 25th, how are we supposed to know that?)
I really want to be apart of this but I am just not getting it...maybe I'm just not smart enough.
It seems this is an advanced assignment for physics and logic students, but I'm enjoying reading what all the sharp minds can find here.
If there's one thing I've learned on this thread it's that before I had just thrown the ambulance photo quickly in the fake catagory without giving it much thought. Now I'm almost coming full circle in thinking it's technically possible to be real, but of course it's not (apparantly). With knowledge comes finer appreciation. I'm thinking it must have been pretty much as difficult to create the realistic photo as for people to disprove it. MJ said he liked good art, and this is a masterpiece.
I have a new theory....I think the pictures were taken inside the property...before the ambulance backed out of the gate....you can see the similar vines and the concrete wall..the reflection didn't show people in it...just the red car...but there could have easily been another red car inside the estate....or it was photoshopped into the photo later to make it look like the pictures were taken as the ambulance was leaving..
That's actually a really a good point...maybe that's why TS wanted us to look at the ambo photo...I hope your right cause that would be just shocking...and if that can be proved non believers will never be able to debunk that...it would be the biggest piece of evidence yet. Also I was thinking when TS said to see it the leaves were blowing on June 25th but that day was sunny and I doubt it would be windy but in the ambo pic it looks like the leaves (if that's what it's meant to be) were swaying or bending a bit.
You can (sorry I can't draw the circle) but in between down the bottom were the leaves branch out you can almost see branches or a thick solid vine.
Edit:
This is partly what I think the theory is but using or going off what 2good2btrue has already said.
If MJ did take two different shots on different days as Ben was about to say ("the other da...") then they could possibly have done it in some kind of set, but to make it more realistic it makes sense to do it outside where someone would stage a fake pic (so use the same REAL scenery you would use for the real thing...in this case June 25th). But they couldn't have done it outside MJ's house or someone would of noticed so they must of done it inside his gates.
Also is it possible to get the pic we have now without having to use the ambulance on both days?
What I mean is if there were two days
The other day: was just the reflection picture (so taking a pic outside of the ambulance)
June 25th: Was the ambulance pic (so inside the ambulance with possibly a real body)...(and it must of been a real body because if it was a dummy then the paramedics would of been on the hoax and there wouldn't be a need to change the pic in any way)
So you put those two together (the outside scenery and the inside of a the ambulance and you get the pic we have now...possibly?)
I am right or wrong TS...can you debunk this theory.
Working off of what I said I am trying to establish the time frame of when the ambulance picture was released online. Anyone have any input on this? Please <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Here is your pair of glasses, and they come free with a new brain attached to them! <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Anyway, the different shadows is another one that is tough to debunk. I could say that the still is a high resolution camera, and the video is much lower resolution; so the spots of sunlight on the hood of the still could be blurred into the shadows on the video. But that doesn't work very well, because there are large sunlit areas on the front of the hood in the video, which have shadow (or shadow with small sunlit spots) on the front of the hood in the still.
I guess I will have to go out on a limb here as well (just like the monitor switch), and say maybe the wind was blowing the trees--and that's why the shadows were different only 5 or 10 seconds after the still photo. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Do we have a Sherlock Holmes in the house, who can prove whether or not the wind was blowing that afternoon?
Whoah! He hottie! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> Is he a friend of yours? Is he single? Can you uhm... hook us up or something? How did you know I find old monkeys without teeth very attractive? <!-- s --><!-- s --> I love his bling too. A former boyfriend gave me one of those once, too bad he attached it to the sink.
Anyways, Shirley Holmes mode **ON**:
Not that much wind that day, if any:
[youtube:ty5f9xk0]
All the shadows stay pretty much the same if you look at the ground. But I can play devil's advocate as well and say that there was a local whirlwind exactly where that tree was... you know??
So, if that makes sense to people, the ambulance picture could still be real (with a lot of imagination that is). If not, we have another piece of evidence that the ambulance picture is bogus.
So far we are sure that the monitor being off and the sun reflection on the care are continuity errors. We also know the leaf pattern is not a reflection and also not part of the interior of the ambulance since it continues over the handle, but disappears behind the sheet and the EMT's arm. We also have the light border in the back that is dark in the picture and in my opinion the blood pressure thing differs as well, looking like a sticker in the picture and like an actual 3 dimensional object in the video. I might have missed something, who wants to fill me in?
What else TS? Still curious about the leaf pattern although I think we pretty much can come to the conclusion that the picture is fake/staged already. But I would love to hear more of your secrets. I still have the feeling there is one thing in that picture we are all overlooking and will give us a duh! moment when it's pointed out to us.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
LOL for the monkey. I think that all these discrepancies added together make it hard to say the picture is real.
For the sun, the leaves and the wind... I was wondering about that picture where it seems the car is in full sun...? When on the video it seems like the aera is quite in the shade...i'm lost <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
What if the red car is actually inside the compound as the picture was taken, and it looks eerily like Randys red car....There were rumours that Randy was at the house the other day, or that day..
The shadows are something that has bothered me from the beginning. I had mentioned them early on, however, more in reference to the time of day. For some reason, when I watch the ambulance backing up video, I feel like the time of day is off. The shadows seem longer to me than they should be. Also, in the ambulance video taken from the tourist bus, the shadows seem different.....a different day, a different time, etc. With regards to the wind, there was slight wind in L.A. that day. Here is a post about the weather. It has a link to a great site about past weather:
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=253&t=14929&hilit=+weather<!-- l -->
I still contend the shadows are very important. And yes, Souza I feel that same, "Dah!" moment coming, LOL! I feel like we are in a live version of a Rubik's Cube.....just when we line one thought up, another one gets jumbled!
Anyways...hope everyone is doing well!
Many blessings always!!!
I wrote a post related to the differences in the 4 pics, but deleted it since I have no idea what are we disecting now. What was the question?
In resume, about the differences:
-Paramedics arm: Is he having a lump? or is just the sadow of the photoshop melting with the pic?
-Distance between paramedics arm and gray sit on the wall.
-Bag bottom left, yelow label, different text.
-MJ´s hair on the shoulder near the tube (which seems to have blood btw), different curls, added curls or removed curls.
-Paramedics knee, underneeth of it: metal piece of something and a white colour coach?. Even if the pic 4 is cutted of the bottom, that part is weird in all 4 pics.
(The rest i wote I forgot..)
Again, what´s the question? <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
What if the red car is actually inside the compound as the picture was taken, and it looks eerily like Randys red car....There were rumours that Randy was at the house the other day, or that day..
no..the red car from ambulance pics its a chevrolet, randy's car is a porsche.
I am not an expert in photography, but the image is very clear, moving the ambulance and the photographer also, and seems that the paramedics are posing, that supposes that resuscitation must do cardio pulmonary not this one doing, it seems that this slope of another thing, and other one not to press the bag of oxygen for anything
Well if we believe Michael is in charge of this hoax then we have to assume that Michael put that face there...so my next question would be why and what does it mean or symbolize. <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
Working off of what I said I am trying to establish the time frame of when the ambulance picture was released online. Anyone have any input on this? Please <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Thank you. I had already read Grace's post about the tweets. We never came to a final conclusion on the time frame. It was mostly a rough draft as far as I could tell. The rough draft time frame was sometime on June 25, 2009 before 6:03 p.m. The time zone wasn't established yet. So I was trying to use what Ben stated in his videos to narrow down the time frame even more.
@MJhasSpoken: Thank you for helping me. @2good2btrue: I agree that it is very possible regarding your new theories (Picture taken inside the gates and Randy's car). Nevermind on the car. lol
Right about now this is exactly how I feel and look. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
P.S. I am getting a little confused on the ambulance pics regarding the screen(s) and which is a screen and which is a cabinet. From what I have read it appears that some are saying the monitor is behind the paramedic who is holding the resuscitation bag. Is that right? Or is it that huge looking screen thing behind the other paramedic?
Working off of what I said I am trying to establish the time frame of when the ambulance picture was released online. Anyone have any input on this? Please <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Thank you. I had already read Grace's post about the tweets. We never came to a final conclusion on the time frame. It was mostly a rough draft as far as I could tell. The rough draft time frame was sometime on June 25, 2009 before 6:03 p.m. The time zone wasn't established yet. So I was trying to use what Ben stated in his videos to narrow down the time frame even more.
@MJhasSpoken: Thank you for helping me. @2good2btrue: I agree that it is very possible regarding your new theories (Picture taken inside the gates and Randy's car). Nevermind on the car. lol
Right about now this is exactly how I feel and look. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
P.S. I am getting a little confused on the ambulance pics regarding the screen(s) and which is a screen and which is a cabinet. From what I have read it appears that some are saying the monitor is behind the paramedic who is holding the resuscitation bag. Is that right? Or is it that huge looking screen thing behind the other paramedic?
It apprears to me that there is a padded back rest behind the parmedic standing, to the left of the gauge. And in the 4th picture that TS originally posted there looks like a face on it as well. Eyes, nose mouth. Heck there are faces everywhere. We need to play "Sea of Faces' by Kutless in the background. LOL
Hi everyone. I have been sitting back watching this thread for days now and I just noticed something that really sticks out to me in the picture!! The ambulance attendant is performing chest compressions with only one hand!!! <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> This is almost as bad as Murray performing CPR on the bed!! <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> I don't know why I didn't see this before! Also the other ambulance guy isn't compressing air into MJ, so whenever this pic was taken, it doesn't look like they were actually trying to revive MJ at all...well at least not at the moment the pic was taken...I find that very strange!!
This was my "DUH" moment!! <!-- s --><!-- s --> Is this one of the things you wanted us to find TS??
I don't think anyone commented on Purelove's pic find. Is it simply someone's silly doctoring of the pic--bald head, no real ear, long hair just laying there underneath. I guess it's nothing.
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture. Example. Limos.. this photographer takes lots of wedding pictures. Limos have tinted windows, he cannot take any picture because the picture will turn out black. I asked him if he can give me an example so i can post here to show you guys, he will try. I do not know him personally, but he is a friend of a friend. He said the picture of Michael was taken another day, just the way enstad said it. I hope i wrote his name correctly. and it was doctored. I hope this can clarify some incertitudes.
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture.
That's good to know.
About CPR with one hand and about CPR on the bed.....I was talking to a friend who has an 89 years old grandmother who lives with her and one day last year she saw her grandmother was on the bed not breathing. She is not a doctor and had no idea how she should do CPR.
Under the impuls of the moment she just started pushing her grandmother's chest untill the old woman's heart started beating again. She never knew CPR is supposed to be performed on a hard surface, but without her intervention her grandmother would have been dead.
I just don't understand how Michael couldn't be brought back to life by an army of doctors and my friend saved her grandmother without any medical knowledge.
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture.
I just don't understand how Michael couldn't be brought back to life by an army of doctors and my friend saved her grandmother without any medical knowledge.
Maybe that's why Murray took 80 minutes for call an ambulance. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Everything may have been minimally designed by Michael. After 80 minutes, nobody can be raised and remain alive without sequelae.
Hi everyone. I have been sitting back watching this thread for days now and I just noticed something that really sticks out to me in the picture!! The ambulance attendant is performing chest compressions with only one hand!!! <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> This is almost as bad as Murray performing CPR on the bed!! <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> I don't know why I didn't see this before! Also the other ambulance guy isn't compressing air into MJ, so whenever this pic was taken, it doesn't look like they were actually trying to revive MJ at all...well at least not at the moment the pic was taken...I find that very strange!!
This was my "DUH" moment!! <!-- s --><!-- s --> Is this one of the things you wanted us to find TS??
Sending you all LOVE!! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
That's been brought up before. It's not unusual to end up doing CPR with one hand. Especially when it's been continuing for 45 minutes. And anyone who has been asystolic that long is not going to survive, unfortunately.
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture. Example. Limos.. this photographer takes lots of wedding pictures. Limos have tinted windows, he cannot take any picture because the picture will turn out black. I asked him if he can give me an example so i can post here to show you guys, he will try. I do not know him personally, but he is a friend of a friend. He said the picture of Michael was taken another day, just the way enstad said it. I hope i wrote his name correctly. and it was doctored. I hope this can clarify some incertitudes.
Limo tint is TOTALLY different than an ambulance tint. An ambulance tint is just like a car tint. And you can take a photo through it.
I have some news from a photographer. He told me that it is impossible to take a picture with tinted windows. Logically, if you cannot see inside you cannot see anyting when you take a picture. Example. Limos.. this photographer takes lots of wedding pictures. Limos have tinted windows, he cannot take any picture because the picture will turn out black. I asked him if he can give me an example so i can post here to show you guys, he will try. I do not know him personally, but he is a friend of a friend. He said the picture of Michael was taken another day, just the way enstad said it. I hope i wrote his name correctly. and it was doctored. I hope this can clarify some incertitudes.
I'm confused now <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> , i have a friend who is a photographer, he works for magazines and stuff, i asked him to look at the pictures and he said that it is possible to take the picture, he added that you can see the reflection of the flash light in the glass, it's the round light spots you see at the right side of the window (it looks like sunlight drops).
And if the inside lights in the ambulance are on, (as i presume they are) it's even easier to take the picture.
He also said that it was'nt one picture taken.( but we knew that already). and that the leaves are photoshopped.
My Question: why they could take pictures of britney Spears and miss Gabor , was this ambulance with clear glass <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
I hope your friend of a friend can get this picture ,i'm looking forward to them ,and i'm very curious. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Comments
<!-- s
Txs for inviting us to another "making of". <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I really want to be apart of this but I am just not getting it...maybe I'm just not smart enough.
If there's one thing I've learned on this thread it's that before I had just thrown the ambulance photo quickly in the fake catagory without giving it much thought. Now I'm almost coming full circle in thinking it's technically possible to be real, but of course it's not (apparantly). With knowledge comes finer appreciation. I'm thinking it must have been pretty much as difficult to create the realistic photo as for people to disprove it. MJ said he liked good art, and this is a masterpiece.
That's actually a really a good point...maybe that's why TS wanted us to look at the ambo photo...I hope your right cause that would be just shocking...and if that can be proved non believers will never be able to debunk that...it would be the biggest piece of evidence yet. Also I was thinking when TS said to see it the leaves were blowing on June 25th but that day was sunny and I doubt it would be windy but in the ambo pic it looks like the leaves (if that's what it's meant to be) were swaying or bending a bit.
You can (sorry I can't draw the circle) but in between down the bottom were the leaves branch out you can almost see branches or a thick solid vine.
Edit:
This is partly what I think the theory is but using or going off what 2good2btrue has already said.
If MJ did take two different shots on different days as Ben was about to say ("the other da...") then they could possibly have done it in some kind of set, but to make it more realistic it makes sense to do it outside where someone would stage a fake pic (so use the same REAL scenery you would use for the real thing...in this case June 25th). But they couldn't have done it outside MJ's house or someone would of noticed so they must of done it inside his gates.
Also is it possible to get the pic we have now without having to use the ambulance on both days?
What I mean is if there were two days
The other day: was just the reflection picture (so taking a pic outside of the ambulance)
June 25th: Was the ambulance pic (so inside the ambulance with possibly a real body)...(and it must of been a real body because if it was a dummy then the paramedics would of been on the hoax and there wouldn't be a need to change the pic in any way)
So you put those two together (the outside scenery and the inside of a the ambulance and you get the pic we have now...possibly?)
I am right or wrong TS...can you debunk this theory.
Here's Grace's very informative post from way back on page 12 (!) when we were discussing this.
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=145&t=18053&p=309514#p309463<!-- l -->
Whoah! He hottie! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> Is he a friend of yours? Is he single? Can you uhm... hook us up or something? How did you know I find old monkeys without teeth very attractive? <!-- s
Anyways, Shirley Holmes mode **ON**:
Not that much wind that day, if any:
[youtube:ty5f9xk0]
All the shadows stay pretty much the same if you look at the ground. But I can play devil's advocate as well and say that there was a local whirlwind exactly where that tree was... you know??
So, if that makes sense to people, the ambulance picture could still be real (with a lot of imagination that is). If not, we have another piece of evidence that the ambulance picture is bogus.
So far we are sure that the monitor being off and the sun reflection on the care are continuity errors. We also know the leaf pattern is not a reflection and also not part of the interior of the ambulance since it continues over the handle, but disappears behind the sheet and the EMT's arm. We also have the light border in the back that is dark in the picture and in my opinion the blood pressure thing differs as well, looking like a sticker in the picture and like an actual 3 dimensional object in the video. I might have missed something, who wants to fill me in?
What else TS? Still curious about the leaf pattern although I think we pretty much can come to the conclusion that the picture is fake/staged already. But I would love to hear more of your secrets. I still have the feeling there is one thing in that picture we are all overlooking and will give us a duh! moment when it's pointed out to us.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."For the sun, the leaves and the wind... I was wondering about that picture where it seems the car is in full sun...? When on the video it seems like the aera is quite in the shade...i'm lost <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=253&t=14929&hilit=+weather<!-- l -->
I still contend the shadows are very important. And yes, Souza I feel that same, "Dah!" moment coming, LOL! I feel like we are in a live version of a Rubik's Cube.....just when we line one thought up, another one gets jumbled!
Anyways...hope everyone is doing well!
Many blessings always!!!
In resume, about the differences:
-Paramedics arm: Is he having a lump? or is just the sadow of the photoshop melting with the pic?
-Distance between paramedics arm and gray sit on the wall.
-Bag bottom left, yelow label, different text.
-MJ´s hair on the shoulder near the tube (which seems to have blood btw), different curls, added curls or removed curls.
-Paramedics knee, underneeth of it: metal piece of something and a white colour coach?. Even if the pic 4 is cutted of the bottom, that part is weird in all 4 pics.
(The rest i wote I forgot..)
Again, what´s the question? <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
no..the red car from ambulance pics its a chevrolet, randy's car is a porsche.
I am not an expert in photography, but the image is very clear, moving the ambulance and the photographer also, and seems that the paramedics are posing, that supposes that resuscitation must do cardio pulmonary not this one doing, it seems that this slope of another thing, and other one not to press the bag of oxygen for anything
@MJhasSpoken: Thank you for helping me.
@2good2btrue: I agree that it is very possible regarding your new theories (Picture taken inside the gates and Randy's car). Nevermind on the car. lol
Right about now this is exactly how I feel and look. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
P.S. I am getting a little confused on the ambulance pics regarding the screen(s) and which is a screen and which is a cabinet. From what I have read it appears that some are saying the monitor is behind the paramedic who is holding the resuscitation bag. Is that right? Or is it that huge looking screen thing behind the other paramedic?
It apprears to me that there is a padded back rest behind the parmedic standing, to the left of the gauge. And in the 4th picture that TS originally posted there looks like a face on it as well. Eyes, nose mouth. Heck there are faces everywhere. We need to play "Sea of Faces' by Kutless in the background. LOL
This was my "DUH" moment!! <!-- s
Sending you all LOVE!! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
That's good to know.
About CPR with one hand and about CPR on the bed.....I was talking to a friend who has an 89 years old grandmother who lives with her and one day last year she saw her grandmother was on the bed not breathing. She is not a doctor and had no idea how she should do CPR.
Under the impuls of the moment she just started pushing her grandmother's chest untill the old woman's heart started beating again. She never knew CPR is supposed to be performed on a hard surface, but without her intervention her grandmother would have been dead.
I just don't understand how Michael couldn't be brought back to life by an army of doctors and my friend saved her grandmother without any medical knowledge.
Maybe that's why Murray took 80 minutes for call an ambulance. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Everything may have been minimally designed by Michael. After 80 minutes, nobody can be raised and remain alive without sequelae.
Limo tint is TOTALLY different than an ambulance tint. An ambulance tint is just like a car tint. And you can take a photo through it.
I'm confused now <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> , i have a friend who is a photographer, he works for magazines and stuff, i asked him to look at the pictures and he said that it is possible to take the picture, he added that you can see the reflection of the flash light in the glass, it's the round light spots you see at the right side of the window (it looks like sunlight drops).
And if the inside lights in the ambulance are on, (as i presume they are) it's even easier to take the picture.
He also said that it was'nt one picture taken.( but we knew that already). and that the leaves are photoshopped.
My Question: why they could take pictures of britney Spears and miss Gabor , was this ambulance with clear glass <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
I hope your friend of a friend can get this picture ,i'm looking forward to them ,and i'm very curious. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->