"And being the artist that I am, at Sony I've generated several billion dollars for Sony, several billon. They really thought that my mind is always on music and dancing. It usually is, but they never thought that this performer - myself - would out think them" -MJ June 15, 2002 Sony Kills Music Speech. On July 7, 2002 he makes a Will (one with subtle inaccuracies). Michael Jackson: A truly genuine character who is outspoken about world problems and the vital information that is kept from us so that we are helpless. He has exposed many monsters over the years. There are many terrible things that happen and go unnoticed by the public, and there are obviously people in power that like to keep it that way. A man like Michael who's greatest quality is his honesty, has become an outstanding activist and leader of justice and truth. And has a great advantage with his fame and status. What must happen in return, this respect and love the world has developed for Michael must be destroyed. 'They' must cut all ties between Michael and the people of this planet and are conditioned and kept in the dark. Is his life in danger? Possibly. Is he dead? I don't believe he is. Is he hoaxing his death? From what I've learned, yes. But there is more to it than we know. I believe that the stories we were fed through the years that MJ is naive and weak and unknowingly allows people to take advantage of him are all lies, possibly created by MJ himself, to distract certain someones from the genius he really is. Whether he is completely stupid or extremely cautious, its inevitable that there will be someone who can and will get him. Set him up, extort him, frame him, ruin him. Where there is a poweful man (MJ), there is an even more powerful man or group of men (industry, illuminati, government etc.). Michael has faked his death, Michael does have a big plan, Michael has thought this out very carefully and considered any risk it may bring to his self or any loved ones, Michael does have good reliable and intelligent people on his side helping him when he needs it. But no plan is flawless, and there are set backs. All we can do is wait, so wait is what we shall do. The King will return, I believe it 100% without a shadow of doubt. That may prove to be foolish in the end if Mike was in fact murdered, but I can't believe that a man as sharp as MJ could know that his life is in danger and do nothing about it. He has much more to live for than to die for. And thanks TS for not leaving us stranded, although we are quite a fantastic group of independent thinkers all on our own <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->.
I went over members' posts and found reasonable points I would like to summarize.
First, the conclusion is Michael outsmarted whoever wanted to kill him and hoaxed his death.
Backing up by facts we have; we don't have a true lifeless Michael's photo ot the ambulance. In fact, the single photo taken by his long time friend is photoshop. If Conrad was hired by bad guys to kill Michael, he most probably will be killed as well to keep his mouth shut because even if he was paid a lot of money, there is no guarantee he can resist himself to remain silent forever. Again FAMILY; Jacksons can successfully order to kill CM (car accident) as a revenge for killing Michael, OR kidnap him and make him talk who ordered him to kill Michael and give name of those people gto either DA or get vendetta on their own way. Can they do that? YES, THEY CAN. Instead, they play double game: after they announced and "buried" MJ after 2,5 months of "passing", keep saying that Michael was KILLED, then right after it show is followed by CLUES that MJ IS ALIVE through their weird happy behavior, inconsistent answers on questions, slip ups, and NOT DOING ANYTHING for revenge and justice for MJ. Then again they take clues back (Jermain's tweet) saying there is NO hoax. Right there believer fans get confused,upset, & mad. DON't BE. Because I think of 2 reasons for that, either MIchael is NOT coming back at all or it is not the time to reveal the hoax. Michael needs to remain "dead".
With CM case, I think Michael used him as a scapegoat.Muslim bodyguards helped MJ with hoax. In fact, I've read their testimony <!-- m -->http://muzikfactorytwo.blogspot.com/201 ... icial.html<!-- m --> <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=219&t=19528<!-- l --> and Jermain's speech which to me is another clue. <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=159&t=19627<!-- l -->
Now, we have the autopsy. Whose autopsy has LAPD and prosecutor? Who is chief coroner LAKSHMANAN SATHYAVAGISWARAN? Immigrant from India, hindus. He reportedly perfomed autopsy on MJ and OJ Simpson, & other fames. <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakshmanan ... vagiswaran<!-- m -->. Did he testify on CM prelim? I don't recall. Could this guy do favor to MJ or his guards that may have connection to him to get fake autopsy, or he was bribed taking responsibility? Could he confuse Michael look alike with real MJ? These are answers we should find out that will clarify IMO everything. I feel we are close to the answer we are hungry for. If coroner did favor, then Michael is not coming back cause he is not a type human who can hurt person that helped him. But that's not as much important for us as to know 1000% that Michael is alive. Right?
By TS: "However, what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? Can you debunk this? Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati? That is the main question of this level."
<br /><br />
By MDC: "TS I find it interesting that you ask what if they killed him according to the exact timing he (Michael) had planned. You bypassed someone else planning it altogether. There is always the argument on this forum that no one could have planned this but Michael. Maybe. But there have been times when I have questioned who else could have planned this. There IS the possibility that someone else COULD have if they knew enough about MJ. So if it's MJ's, how would they find out about his plans? The only answer I keep coming back to is either they KNOW MJ personally... or the Neverland raids. Depending on how long he had been planning this, wouldn't he have had notes. This plan is extensive. He couldn't have remembered EVERY detail without writing something down. I mean Neverland was raided more times than a co-eds panty drawer. Surely if it was there, someone would have found it. That would have been a gold mine for Sneddon, don't you think? So more doubts for me. Still I have this nagging feeling that everyone knows what's going on but us, the fans. Like we are being punked or something. Something always holds me back from going completely to the murder theory side. It might just be hope. But hope is tricky and sometimes futile."
<br /><br />TS, you wrote
In this level, there is no limit on any particular category of discussion
<br /><br />I didn't read all of your previous posts (I'm sorry!) and I surely missed a lot of very valuable information because of that. But because I didn't read all of your posts, maybe I'm reading this particular post of yours in a different/objective way and so I'm going to ask you this question (and take the risk to be kicked out of this forum immediately, but you said it yourself, there is no limit of discussion) <br /><br />So, is it possible that you are one of the bad (illuminati) "guys" that somehow got information about Michael's plans, notes (for instance, which were found during the raid) and are you only misleading us, distract us from his murder (by using Michaels own hoaxplans) for almost 2 years now, or are you really sincere and helping us to piece the puzzle together? See, you can be an insider, but which side are you on? <br /><br />Sorry, I had to ask, because personally I'm becoming tired of the riddles and puzzles after almost 2 years. My apologies for my rude question.
Bare with me I don't make a lot of post but RPM made a good point.
The children.
I am a mother of 3 children and while I don't have the resources or money that Michael has, if I felt that my life was in danger the first thing I would be to remove my children from immediate danger. I would like to think that Michael would do the same thing. Any parent would want to do the right thing and that would be to move the children out of harms way, right? Michael had waited how many years to have children of his own? He even said that he carried around baby dolls because he wanted a child so bad. We've all heard how he took his children practically out of the womb himself and whisked them away to the safety of his arms. I can not fathom the idea that he the man who made it his life mission to do everything in his power to help children all across the world would confess that his life was in danger but yet do nothing to ensure that his children were safe.
I could be wrong, but I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
Bare with me I don't make a lot of post but RPM made a good point.
The children.
I am a mother of 3 children and while I don't have the resources or money that Michael has, if I felt that my life was in danger the first thing I would be to remove my children from immediate danger. I would like to think that Michael would do the same thing. Any parent would want to do the right thing and that would be to move the children out of harms way, right? Michael had waited how many years to have children of his own? He even said that he carried around baby dolls because he wanted a child so bad. We've all heard how he took his children practically out of the womb himself and whisked them away to the safety of his arms. I can not fathom the idea that he the man who made it his life mission to do everything in his power to help children all across the world would confess that his life was in danger but yet do nothing to ensure that his children were safe.
I could be wrong, but I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
By MDC: "TS I find it interesting that you ask what if they killed him according to the exact timing he (Michael) had planned. You bypassed someone else planning it altogether. There is always the argument on this forum that no one could have planned this but Michael. Maybe. But there have been times when I have questioned who else could have planned this. There IS the possibility that someone else COULD have if they knew enough about MJ. So if it's MJ's, how would they find out about his plans? The only answer I keep coming back to is either they KNOW MJ personally... or the Neverland raids. Depending on how long he had been planning this, wouldn't he have had notes. This plan is extensive. He couldn't have remembered EVERY detail without writing something down. I mean Neverland was raided more times than a co-eds panty drawer. Surely if it was there, someone would have found it. That would have been a gold mine for Sneddon, don't you think? So more doubts for me. Still I have this nagging feeling that everyone knows what's going on but us, the fans. Like we are being punked or something. Something always holds me back from going completely to the murder theory side. It might just be hope. But hope is tricky and sometimes futile."
My understanding is
1. IF NEVERLAND WAS RAID AND MJ's DIARY WITH HOAX DETAILS WAS FOUND, THEN MICHAEL NEW IT AND COULD CHANGE HIS PLAN AND ACT SOONER; NOT WATING TO BE KILLED ACCORDING TO HIS PLAN.
2.THE KILLER WOULD NOT BOTHER TO FOLLOW DETAILS OF HOAX PLAN IN RE TIMING, DATES, NUMEROLOGY, STORY,NAMES, etc. BECAUSE THERE IS NO POINT. NO ONE HAD KNOWN MICHAEL'S PLAN DETAILS FOR THEM TO FOLLOW IT TO DEMOSTRATE THAT MJ HOAXED HIS DEATH ACCORDING TO HIS PLAN.
3. If Michael is dead at all, why we don't have real death picture. Instead we have photoshop posted on youtube and confirmed by Oxman. Was that aslo done by killers according to Michael's hoax plan inviting Ben? THAT WOULD BE RISKY FOR THEM TO INVOLVE MORE PEOPLE TO THEIR MURDER PLAN BESIDES CONRAD. MORE UNNECESSARY WITNESS & PAYOUT.
[font=Bradley Hand ITC:cy6r03zr]Friends!!! I am very, very impressed with the posts, especially on this, page 3. A tremendous amount of great reasonings and new thoughts!!! I know we are just beginning, but I am so impressed. <br />Here's a big one for you all!<br /> <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug --> [/font:cy6r03zr]
Why not an open casket? When James Brown passed away they showed him in the casket! Don't tell me because they had to remove his brain, bla bla bla.. that is irrelevant. Today they fix dead people with make up and they fix hair very nicely . Unless the person is disfigured that is something else. They still did not engraved his crypt, yet his daughter wears a bracelet 1959-2009, I would understand if they were a poor family did not have the money to pay for the engravement, what on earth??? They are millionaires. My first first scenario when he passed on June 25/2009 was he faked his death because he did not want to do the 50 concerts. He couldn't back out because if he did AEG would have sewed him millions,and millions, the best thing was to fake his death make more money with the movie THIS IS IT (which he did) and much more, which it did happen. I had written a post earlier stating that Murray was helping Michael reporting what the illuminati wanted to kill Michael, Murray was the scapegoat, more I think about it the more I feel the Illuminati has nothing to do with it. Murray did help Michael, faking his death somehow, he is the one who cleaned all the loose ends, the tapes missing from Michael's room. The Ironic thing is that Michael told Randy Phillips he wants Murray to be his doctor and that is final, so Michael is the one who chose Murray, I am sure they had an agreement somehow. Michael was not addicted to propofol, nor any othe pills, he had no insomnia. This was all a ruse to show us how fragile Michael was. I cannot shake this feeling I have, that Michael at 50 did not have the stamina he had in his 30's and 40's he was afraid of failure so he took this way out. You know Michael is 1 yr older then I and believe me I would do the same, if I had all that money I would find a real good hidding place and just leave. I am sure most of you will not agree, please <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ --> my opinion like I respected yours. Like I said this was my first scenario from the day he supposedly passed then I changed my mind, but now I am going back <!-- slolol/ -->lolol/<!-- slolol/ -->
Michael Jackson's Family Hunts Missing Cash
Monday, June 29, 2009
Members of Michael Jackson's family have begun stripping his home of his possessions and hunting for a large amount of cash he had hidden at the California mansion. The pop legend passed away on Thursday (25Jun09) following a cardiac arrest at his rented Holmby Hills home.
A removal van was spotted at the residence just 24 hours after the star's shocking death, with his family believed to be packing up his possessions and putting them into a storage facility. Jackson's former nanny Grace Rwaramba claims the singer's mother, Katherine, called her shortly after his demise to ask about a sum of money the superstar is believed to have stashed at the house.
Rwaramba says, "Katherine just called me. She said, ‘Grace, you remember Michael used to hide cash at the house. I am here. Where can it be?’ I told her to look at the garbage bags and under the carpets. This woman just lost her son a few hours ago and she is calling me to know where the money is!"
So here, we see the family were really concerned about the MONEY, not about MJ...Does seem like a family in mourning to you ?????? And why the importance of the cash...as TS has nicely pointed out with this post....
“Michael WAS murdered,” declared La Toya, 53. “And we don’t think just one person was involved. Rather, it was a conspiracy of people. I feel it was all about money. Michael was worth well over a billion in music publishing assets and somebody killed him for that. He was worth more dead than alive.”
As she posed a series of vital questions about 50-year-old Jacko’s sudden death 17 days ago at his rented mansion in Los Angeles, La Toya said the pop icon was:
■FED a series of addictive drugs to keep him submissive and controlled.
■KEPT from his family by manipulative people who blocked their visits.
■WORKED to exhaustion even though he DIDN’T want to do the gruelling string of 50 shows due to start at London’s O2 arena tomorrow.
■ROBBED of [highlight=#ff0000:jnhubkc2]TWO MILLION[/highlight:jnhubkc2] in cash and gems as he lay dying.
So TS...you show us notes with pictures of MJ on it to the value of 2 million dollars...
How did they know that he had money stashed. Surely he didn’t just blurt it out to them. When he first “died” that seemed to be the major concern. Where is the money? In a time of total despair, when an unexpected swift death occurs, no one is thinking straight. It’s emotional, reason sets in later. Money would be the last thing on their minds. That says to me, no death but perhaps Michael instructed them to go there for it having left it behind in his haste.
Michael Jackson's Family Hunts Missing Cash
Monday, June 29, 2009
Members of Michael Jackson's family have begun stripping his home of his possessions and hunting for a large amount of cash he had hidden at the California mansion. The pop legend passed away on Thursday (25Jun09) following a cardiac arrest at his rented Holmby Hills home.
A removal van was spotted at the residence just 24 hours after the star's shocking death, with his family believed to be packing up his possessions and putting them into a storage facility. Jackson's former nanny Grace Rwaramba claims the singer's mother, Katherine, called her shortly after his demise to ask about a sum of money the superstar is believed to have stashed at the house.
Rwaramba says, "Katherine just called me. She said, ‘Grace, you remember Michael used to hide cash at the house. I am here. Where can it be?’ I told her to look at the garbage bags and under the carpets. This woman just lost her son a few hours ago and she is calling me to know where the money is!"
So here, we see the family were really concerned about the MONEY, not about MJ...Does seem like a family in mourning to you ?????? And why the importance of the cash...as TS has nicely pointed out with this post....
“Michael WAS murdered,” declared La Toya, 53. “And we don’t think just one person was involved. Rather, it was a conspiracy of people. I feel it was all about money. Michael was worth well over a billion in music publishing assets and somebody killed him for that. He was worth more dead than alive.”
As she posed a series of vital questions about 50-year-old Jacko’s sudden death 17 days ago at his rented mansion in Los Angeles, La Toya said the pop icon was:
■FED a series of addictive drugs to keep him submissive and controlled.
■KEPT from his family by manipulative people who blocked their visits.
■WORKED to exhaustion even though he DIDN’T want to do the gruelling string of 50 shows due to start at London’s O2 arena tomorrow.
■ROBBED of [highlight=#ff0000:5lmkm4c0]TWO MILLION[/highlight:5lmkm4c0] in cash and gems as he lay dying.
[highlight=#ff0040:5lmkm4c0]So TS...you show us notes with pictures of MJ on it to the value of 2 million dollars[/highlight:5lmkm4c0]...
Is this a clue ????
[highlight=#bfff80:5lmkm4c0]render to ceaser what is ceaser's and to god what is god's[/highlight:5lmkm4c0]
i didn't give the whole scene but this came from when the disciples asked jesus about paying taxes to ceaser. he asked for a coin. he showed it to them and asked who was pictured on it and they responded ceaser.
so ts is this to say something about rendering to michael what is michaels?
How did they know that he had money stashed. Surely he didn’t just blurt it out to them. When he first “died” that seemed to be the major concern. Where is the money? In a time of total despair, when an unexpected swift death occurs, no one is thinking straight. It’s emotional, reason sets in later. Money would be the last thing on their minds. That says to me, no death but perhaps Michael instructed them to go there for it having left it behind in his haste.
Exactly......and then Katherine is shopping for sleeping bags at Target the next day....
all of the dudes on the american money are dead. think that would fly as a good excuse not to pay taxes. sorry mr. tax man only doin what jesus would do . <!-- spenguin/ -->penguin/<!-- spenguin/ -->
Okay, I will give it a shot. Although I am 100% convinced of a hoax and nothing you will say or debunk will make me change my mind, I did notice that it's quite hard to actually prove that it's a hoax. But if it were that easy, we wouldn't have so many members leaving, even still after 2 years.
I don't think any of us will be able to come with absolute proof, most of it will be just common sense and 'too big to be a coincidence', but that's good enough when there are 100+ of those so called 'coincidences'.
I have been quite certain since the news broke on June 25, but Dave Dave really sealed the deal after all the 'coincidences' I found in between. But Dave Dave is not proof, far from that. Although I am convinced it was MJ, I can't prove it. All we do know is that it was not the real Dave Dave, that's easy to see when comparing the footage with pictures from Dave.
As for the illuminati out-thinking MJ: no way. As mentioned earlier, they are predictable, where MJ is definitely UNpredictable. I really think he's too smart for them and he has the connections, power and money to fool them. He himself stated multiple times that they were out to get him and that he feared for his life. Unless Mike has an IQ as low as the average room temperature (in Celcius), I really don't think he would hire a doctor that can't even do CPR.
I also agree with JukeBox about the family: they would NOT let this happen or be involved in a plot to kill him. But let's say they would, why didn't they let the life insurance be paid out? Why cash it and loose a lot of money?
Also, why release a will where none of them get anything? If they would have planned to kill him, why not fabricate a will in which they all get lots of $$$? No one gets anything and even the kids have to wait for any of it. So IF they would be in on a murder plot, the motive clearly isn't money. Is attention a motive? Nah... Out of 10 people, one or two might be evil to the bone like that, but all of them? Doesn't make sense.
And the Death Certificate with the 'Joseph' on it, and not the Joe. There is no proof what his legal name was on June 25, could have been John Doe for all we know, but aka's must be stated on a DC as well. MJ used both Joseph and Joe on ducuments, and even in court (Dangerous deposition vs. 2005 trial). That means that those two names have to be stated on the DC.
LaToya said she signed the DC, it's a lie. LaToya is NOT authorized to sign a DC, never in a million years. So why lie? 2 options: she lies for her brother to make a hoax more believable or she lies for the illuminati to make a hoax more believable. In the last case: what is her motive? And why would the illuminati make it look like a hoax? So that people will dig into the story and find out what we found out? Doesn't make sense either.
And if MJ was killed by the illuminati, Murray would have been either in jail, or dead by now. He would have been the 'lone gunman'. There is too much speculation, also in the press, whether or not Murray should be found guilty.
Lastly (for now, I will think of more when I had some sleep), if MJ were dead and murdered, than YOU, my dear TS, would be pure evil. That I don't believe either. If I would be wrong about that, it would be my biggest fail ever. I have failed before, but in those cases I always had doubts. No doubts now. But if you want to try and make me believe you are pure evil, give it a go <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Welcome back TS! I haven't commented on many threads lately but have still been reading EVERYTHING regarding TIAI and also the different levels.
For two years I have been trying to convince my husband that this is a hoax. He thinks MJ was murdered. So judging by that experience this isn't going to be easy. I'm going to get some thoughts together and try to post later.
Hi, Sugar Pie. Look at the funky money you brought!
Ooooohhhhh, my teeny brain cells can't chew all of this, but I guess there's always this to ask for the sake of debate: Has it ever been asked if it's possible that, after he had already begun planning out the hoax, that THEY somehow found out about it, and had MJ and the family blackmailed/threatened or something- eventually capturing or killing him and forcing the rest of the family to carry out the hoax as if it were a hoax, including all of this "Murray killing a double or not/25th confusion", to mask the real deed/imprisoned-somewhere-MJ? Even if people figured out what they had done, there really wouldn't be any way for us or the like-minded to do anything about it, and then with all the confusion and whatnot..if he were dead, he's dead, and THEY've already made two years worth of astronomical bucks.. and the family is stuck in the grip.. or maybe he's still with them, too.. and this would all put peeps like Ortega in on it- hm, not likely, given how friendly they seem.. but I guess the word is "SEEM".. I know I went wrong on this somewhere, but alas, I'll ask..
excerpts from the book La Toya:
Michael also notes that 2003 is even more afraid to walk around your own garden because I was afraid they would kill him. He says he knows who is behind the development of it. Latoya asks who, Michel says "I want my catalog, I want my publisher, they will do whatever it takes to get it. I will kill you. I hate my life. I do not even want the catalog for more"
Michael says he was desperate not to eat or take care of itself. They pleaded with him to take at least vitamins. She says most of the time Michael was alone in his bungalow.
- Says Michael has been using a bulletproof vest since 2001 (when we went head to head with Sony / Mottola). Before the trial of Michael would have said: "If I go, I will be killed."
- Michael says he was a zombie after hearing the verdict, drainage, distant. She says the experience marked him, and he believes he would be killed that day.
- She says the trial had done serious damage to it, a crack formed in her mind, she says she has lost her will to fight, and it was like he was lost.
Michael says he did not want to do more, fearing he would be killed on stage and wanted to produce and direct films with Peter Jackson.
A man who uses bulletproof vest from the year 2001 and that his family is aware of the fears of a possible murder as she relates the Toya in his book and none of them did anything,.. that would change my perception of them. And as said Souza do not believe that Michael will be contracted to a perfect incompetent as Murray and least with all their fears of being killed
Welcome back TS. I was expecting you to come back when the trial begins but it is nice to see you earlier. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
Ahh this is a nice topic to discuss about. Well if Michael was murdered then the family has to be illuminati, as well as Kenny Ortega, TII dancers, Teddy Riley, many of Michael's friend's and also YOU. To me the most solid proof of the hoax is the numerology. I do not believe illuminati would bother to arrange the dates like this and I do not believe they would bother to give out clues. On the contrary they would be trying to cover their tracks. I don't get the reason why they would bother to send someone here to tell us more about the details of the hoax because as much as we learn about the hoax, as much as we reach to a higher awareness about illuminati and NWO. How many of us knew this much about illuminati and NWO before June 25th? I do believe that Michael wanted to let us know and this is one of the main reasons of the hoax. For years he tried to show it with his songs and speeches but unfortunately that wasn't enough for people to see the naked truth and he knew that. He had to do something bigger! And he did. And thanks to Michael WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
The clues we have been receiving are so unique and so Michaelish and to me noone but only Michael can arrange all these details and clues. We're getting the clues from everywhere. Not only from one single media source. Commercials, movies, tv shows, paintings etc... I don't see a reason for illuminati to give out clues through movies, commercials or tv shows. And why would they bother to make it look like a hoax and he is still alive? If they killed him, that's it. They killed him and they would do nothing. They don't need to do anything. They would have reached their goal already by killing him, no need to give out clues.
I know that some of the fans think that Michael's family can do anything to earn more $$$. I do believe that Michael loves his family a lot and his family loves him a lot too. I would never ever believe that they would be included in a murder plot where their brother, their son was going to get killed. NO WAY! The family knows about the hoax and noone could force them for the Liberian Girl pictures at the funeral. Noone could force them to make the memorial and the funeral on those dates under a full moon. This is an amazing plan which was planned for long years. This is something that has never ever done before. This is a movie, an ARG, a show, a take over and the story of a King who comes BACK to life after death. This is so unique and so genius. This is so MICHAEL!
I would like to read if you or any of the believers can debunk the hoax with all the aspects we discussed till today. Then I would be leaving everything behind, mourn for Michael (once more), and then go back to my pre hoax life. Until then, I'll be here as a KNOWER. Noone and nothing can shake my faith! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
excerpts from the book La Toya:
Michael also notes that 2003 is even more afraid to walk around your own garden because I was afraid they would kill him. He says he knows who is behind the development of it. Latoya asks who, Michel says "I want my catalog, I want my publisher, they will do whatever it takes to get it. I will kill you. I hate my life. I do not even want the catalog for more"
Michael says he was desperate not to eat or take care of itself. They pleaded with him to take at least vitamins. She says most of the time Michael was alone in his bungalow.
- Says Michael has been using a bulletproof vest since 2001 (when we went head to head with Sony / Mottola). Before the trial of Michael would have said: "If I go, I will be killed."
- Michael says he was a zombie after hearing the verdict, drainage, distant. She says the experience marked him, and he believes he would be killed that day.
- She says the trial had done serious damage to it, a crack formed in her mind, she says she has lost her will to fight, and it was like he was lost.
Michael says he did not want to do more, fearing he would be killed on stage and wanted to produce and direct films with Peter Jackson.
A man who uses bulletproof vest from the year 2001 and that his family is aware of the fears of a possible murder as she relates the Toya in his book and none of them did anything,.. that would change my perception of them. And as said Souza do not believe that Michael will be contracted to a perfect incompetent as Murray and least with all their fears of being killed
Erm, I don't know if you were replying to me or not, but I'll respond to the first part of your post, because- I apologize- I couldn't really understand the last part: What if MJ and the family had been under THEIR thumb for a while, and it was very difficult to find anything to do or anyone to turn to? THEY are so powerful.. Maybe has done/is doing something and they don't make it public- I don't know, I just thought I'd put the concept out there..
excerpts from the book La Toya:
Michael also notes that 2003 is even more afraid to walk around your own garden because I was afraid they would kill him. He says he knows who is behind the development of it. Latoya asks who, Michel says "I want my catalog, I want my publisher, they will do whatever it takes to get it. I will kill you. I hate my life. I do not even want the catalog for more"
Michael says he was desperate not to eat or take care of itself. They pleaded with him to take at least vitamins. She says most of the time Michael was alone in his bungalow.
- [glow=red:3s73ciwc]Says Michael has been using a bulletproof vest since 2001[/glow:3s73ciwc] (when we went head to head with Sony / Mottola). Before the trial of Michael would have said: "If I go, I will be killed."
- Michael says he was a zombie after hearing the verdict, drainage, distant. She says the experience marked him, and he believes he would be killed that day.
- She says the trial had done serious damage to it, a crack formed in her mind, she says she has lost her will to fight, and it was like he was lost.
Michael says he did not want to do more, fearing he would be killed on stage and wanted to produce and direct films with Peter Jackson.
A man who uses bulletproof vest from the year 2001 and that his family is aware of the fears of a possible murder as she relates the Toya in his book and none of them did anything,.. that would change my perception of them. And as said Souza do not believe that Michael will be contracted to a perfect incompetent as Murray and least with all their fears of being killed
The part that I highlighted, is that from the book? That Michael used a bulletproof vest? Possibly so if he was in fear for his life, but then again I ask, if he was in such danger why did he go out with his children? He continued to do things in public and brought his children along with him. Why?
Perhaps I'm not wrapping my head around this the right way.
[offtopic:2ozzou3y]So what's the main point of why are we here? Because we love Michael or because we are addicted to debates, investigations and discussions?
TS you did a very smart thing with these levels ..is this part of some training or it's just to keep us busy?[/offtopic:2ozzou3y]
When people say, “This is so Michael”, and “Michael is a genius”, and “the Illuminati would never bother putting in so many complex details”. Maybe we should rethink those statements.[shadow=blue:wa78o6wa] I’m not going to argue that MJ is dead like TS is saying he is in this level, but now I’ve got my brain going in this other direction which is kinda depressing and scaring me. [/shadow:wa78o6wa] <!-- scrash/ -->crash/<!-- scrash/ --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> There have been several posts above which got my brain going in this direction.<br /><br />Just a theory with Illuminati. What if MJ has been sweet, childlike, loving, innocent and NOT planning a death hoax throughout all these supposed 21 years of planning the hoax, and it has been the Illuminati all along doing everything. I know in one interview that MJ said that in the Billy Jean video the only thing he created was the dance on the road, and others planned ALL the rest, which has much symbolic details. Quincy Jones could be the Illuminati agent that put much of the cryptic hoax details in Thriller. The number 2040 on the space capsule could have been put there by someone else and hardly noticed by MJ. There may have been a concerted plan by the Illuminati to groom and use Michael right since his early rise to fame in Jackson 5 with them creating elaborate sets, videos while MJ only created music, danced with only innocent thoughts. TII was planned by the same group, fitting the themes and persona they had built around Michael over the years. They have planned this hoax as well, simply telling Michael when he has to get out of the way and stay hidden perhaps actually on some tropical island. So all this time since he was very young, Michael simply does what he’s told to do, fitting in with their creative plans, sets, outfits, and Michael gets all the credit of being a genius. <br /><br />Meanwhile there’s a whole team of geniuses for many years working on this special “project”, let’s call it the “Illuminati Michael Hoax Project”. This is why the FBI are involved, because they are also part of Illuminati as are the CIA, who it seems were also involved in 911. Thus it is the Illuminati who are devising the dramatic world-wide BAM of Michael. He will enter the stage again when they cue him. This might explain why there are so many stories of enemies of MJ trying to take his money, of MJ being addicted to drugs and afraid for his life. Those stories may be all true, yet at the same time the Illuminati has creatively put out the Memorial, funeral (with Liberian Girl theme), TII film and the many other clues and numerology, and they will carry this “Project” to it’s completion. They designed the Dangerous album cover, ‘Michael’ cover and others with all their Illuminati symbolism. They are putting Michaelish clues in so many of the movies, and getting Oprah and LKL/Pierce to do MJ-related interviews. [fade:wa78o6wa]Perhaps TS is as Do has suggested, an Illuminati agent, playing with us, knowing full well that they have truly “killed” MJ and have planned the hoax. [/fade:wa78o6wa] BACK and FRONT may also be other agents that have their assigned roles all planned to appear like this Michael persona that they have created for fans and the world. Their purpose for the BAM is some future role they want him to play as their puppet.<br /><br />We already know that there is much numerology and symbolism that could be Illuminati fingerprints in the death of Princess Diana, 911, Elvis, John Lennon, and other stories such as the Chilean minors and Osama Bin Laden’s death. So what if they pride themselves on MJ’s hoax death being their crowning achievement in the areas of entertainment, media, and religion. This is why it seems like all the media and entertainment world seem to be knowledgable of the hoax, but not the general public including MJ fans. MJ’s family has been informed and trained in the carrying out of the hoax, and told they will be paid handsomely. They go along with it since MJ’s death is a hoax, and they want the money. MJ’s kids are told their Dad will still get to visit with them over the phone and occastionally in person so they're okay with it. MJ is told his career will be put back on track and his name will be cleared of the slander. <br /><br />And while thinking about this, this may explain why Michael was framed and slandered in the 93 and 2005 sexual allegations by Tom Sneddon and the media, massive $7 million dollar legal cost and 70 police raiding Neverland. It was part of the long-term plan to put MJ’s ego in place so he would do as he was told, so that he would be obedient to their long-term plans of this hoax and grooming him as a puppet for a future leader role, or as an entertainment extravaganza of the century, to generate lots of money or whatever. DD on LKL, hatman, blond lady could all be people made to look/sound like MJ to make people think hoax. When MJ said he was afraid for his life—he really meant it and was afraid of what they were up to. [fade:wa78o6wa]All the levels TS has initiated we’ve really been studying Illuminati’s clever details.[/fade:wa78o6wa] Murray, the Coroner, LAFD are all being hired by them to do their roles. Branca is truly a crook and has forged a fake will, and on and on with the hoax inconsistencies and coincidences we’ve found these 2 years. EVERYTHING that pointed to Michael as its source is really a powerful, superintelligent team of Illuminati people planning this for at least 20 years.<br /><br />But then there could be another layer, in which MJ was aware of their hoax plans and is planning some surprise of his own within their plan (a different hoax within a hoax from what others have discussed here), that will sabotage and change everything to the way he wants it to go. You never know, you just never know! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <br /><br />I'm not saying at all I believe this, but I'm just throwing this out for you to prove it's not true. <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr -->
I also figured that you would wait for the dust to settle. Lol Even so, it’s nice to see you post again!
I know that I hardly ever post on these redirects. I’d rather lurk around and see what’s being said. But for some reason, I feel compelled to get involved.
Now as for the evidence to support the belief that Michael is alive….I really have none to offer. Like many have said before me, this is all based on a gut feeling, intuition and what my heart has been telling me for the past year and 8 months.
This has been a spiritual journey for me and it has changed my life COMPLETELY. I was not a fan of his at all and I didn’t follow him nor did I know much about him. And yet his ‘death’ knocked the wind out of me!
Something that manages to pull the rug from under me (a former atheist who was desensitized to the world around me) like that and leave me emotionally crippled on the floor with no hope of ever being able to stand on my own two feet without God has to have a purpose.
For everything, there is a reason.
My main argument against the murder theory is as follows:
I firmly believe that there was a hidden agenda behind the accusations that Michael faced in both 1993 and 2003. Yes I do agree that there were people in the industry that were jealous of his success but I do not believe that this was the main reason that Michael faced such accusations. As most of you all remember, the media firestorm that occurred as a result of both cases was phenomenal and it pretty much overshadowed everything else that was occurring at the time.
I am of the belief that Michael was framed by the powers that be in order to cause a distraction.
But a distraction from what? >>>>>>>>I think it is our job to figure this one out.
As for the illuminati, I would rather say ‘the powers that be’ because they are not the only ones that hold the control but rather are controlled, along with other groups, by an even higher up organization.
I do not really like to say’ Illuminati’ because it’s generic and they are not the only ones that control but rather are the ones who are controlled by an even higher up organization.
Killing Michael would only serve to hinder their agenda to demoralize the people of the world.
Just think about it…
Look what happened in the wake of his ‘death’. People started listening to his music even more. Many now have a deeper understanding of what he is all about (L.O.V.E.) even if they have no idea that he is still alive. They still carry his legacy.
He now has an even bigger presence in the world, a presence that cannot be diminished. His message continues with an even louder and clearer voice, the voice of his ever so devoted and passionate fans.
With Michael physically ‘gone’, the powers that be would not be able to use Michael’s plight as a media diversion to thwart attention away from something that they would much rather have kept under the carpet so to speak.
It would not be in their (the powers that be) best interest to have Michael murdered.
Here’s another thing that gets me:
The family is EXTREMELY complacent when dealing with Michael’s ‘murder’ as they claim it to be.
Sarahli and The RPM :
I totally agree with you on your all or your reasoning. I think someone here said it better than I could have. >
If Michael really is dead (which I know he isn’t), my high regard for the family would most certainly diminish because, judging from their strange behavior and lack or interest in justice ‘for a life taken’, the Jackson family, including his children, has to be the most heartless family I have EVER come to know of.
I feel so horrible to say this but the only reason that I can even say such a thing is because I truly believe that there is a hoax and that the family is in on it.
But Like I said, I have no concrete evidence to support my theories or beliefs…All I base them on is logic.
When people say, “This is so Michael”, and “Michael is a genius”, and “the Illuminati would never bother putting in so many complex details”. Maybe we should rethink those statements.[shadow=blue:2f3bg0eb] I’m not going to argue that MJ is dead like TS is saying he is in this level, but now I’ve got my brain going in this other direction which is kinda depressing and scaring me. [/shadow:2f3bg0eb] <!-- scrash/ -->crash/<!-- scrash/ --> <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ --> <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> There have been several posts above which got my brain going in this direction.<br /><br />Just a theory with Illuminati. What if MJ has been sweet, childlike, loving, innocent and NOT planning a death hoax throughout all these supposed 21 years of planning the hoax, and it has been the Illuminati all along doing everything. I know in one interview that MJ said that in the Billy Jean video the only thing he created was the dance on the road, and others planned ALL the rest, which has much symbolic details. Quincy Jones could be the Illuminati agent that put much of the cryptic hoax details in Thriller. The number 2040 on the space capsule could have been put there by someone else and hardly noticed by MJ. There may have been a concerted plan by the Illuminati to groom and use Michael right since his early rise to fame in Jackson 5 with them creating elaborate sets, videos while MJ only created music, danced with only innocent thoughts. TII was planned by the same group, fitting the themes and persona they had built around Michael over the years. They have planned this hoax as well, simply telling Michael when he has to get out of the way and stay hidden perhaps actually on some tropical island. So all this time since he was very young, Michael simply does what he’s told to do, fitting in with their creative plans, sets, outfits, and Michael gets all the credit of being a genius. <br /><br />Meanwhile there’s a whole team of geniuses for many years working on this special “project”, let’s call it the “Illuminati Michael Hoax Project”. This is why the FBI are involved, because they are also part of Illuminati as are the CIA, who it seems were also involved in 911. Thus it is the Illuminati who are devising the dramatic world-wide BAM of Michael. He will enter the stage again when they cue him. This might explain why there are so many stories of enemies of MJ trying to take his money, of MJ being addicted to drugs and afraid for his life. Those stories may be all true, yet at the same time the Illuminati has creatively put out the Memorial, funeral (with Liberian Girl theme), TII film and the many other clues and numerology, and they will carry this “Project” to it’s completion. They designed the Dangerous album cover, ‘Michael’ cover and others with all their Illuminati symbolism. They are putting Michaelish clues in so many of the movies, and getting Oprah and LKL/Pierce to do MJ-related interviews. [fade:2f3bg0eb]Perhaps TS is as Do has suggested, an Illuminati agent, playing with us, knowing full well that they have truly “killed” MJ and have planned the hoax. [/fade:2f3bg0eb] BACK and FRONT may also be other agents that have their assigned roles all planned to appear like this Michael persona that they have created for fans and the world. Their purpose for the BAM is some future role they want him to play as their puppet.<br /><br />We already know that there is much numerology and symbolism that could be Illuminati fingerprints in the death of Princess Diana, 911, Elvis, John Lennon, and other stories such as the Chilean minors and Osama Bin Laden’s death. So what if they pride themselves on MJ’s hoax death being their crowning achievement in the areas of entertainment, media, and religion. This is why it seems like all the media and entertainment world seem to be knowledgable of the hoax, but not the general public including MJ fans. MJ’s family has been informed and trained in the carrying out of the hoax, and told they will be paid handsomely. They go along with it since MJ’s death is a hoax, and they want the money. MJ’s kids are told their Dad will still get to visit with them over the phone and occastionally in person so they're okay with it. MJ is told his career will be put back on track and his name will be cleared of the slander. <br /><br />And while thinking about this, this may explain why Michael was framed and slandered in the 93 and 2005 sexual allegations by Tom Sneddon and the media, massive $7 million dollar legal cost and 70 police raiding Neverland. It was part of the long-term plan to put MJ’s ego in place so he would do as he was told, so that he would be obedient to their long-term plans of this hoax and grooming him as a puppet for a future leader role, or as an entertainment extravaganza of the century, to generate lots of money or whatever. DD on LKL, hatman, blond lady could all be people made to look/sound like MJ to make people think hoax. When MJ said he was afraid for his life—he really meant it and was afraid of what they were up to. [fade:2f3bg0eb]All the levels TS has initiated we’ve really been studying Illuminati’s clever details.[/fade:2f3bg0eb] Murray, the Coroner, LAFD are all being hired by them to do their roles. Branca is truly a crook and has forged a fake will, and on and on with the hoax inconsistencies and coincidences we’ve found these 2 years. EVERYTHING that pointed to Michael as its source is really a powerful, superintelligent team of Illuminati people planning this for at least 20 years.<br /><br />But then there could be another layer, in which MJ was aware of their hoax plans and is planning some surprise of his own within their plan (a different hoax within a hoax from what others have discussed here), that will sabotage and change everything to the way he wants it to go. You never know, you just never know! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <br /><br />I'm not saying at all I believe this, but I'm just throwing this out for you to prove it's not true. <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr --> <!-- serrrr -->errrr<!-- serrrr -->
<br /><br /><br />Hey MJonmind,<br /><br />I’m quite fascinated with what you have posted. It’s a very interesting take on everything. I understand why you posted it and I can see why you have those concerns. I do hope that TS will respond to you.<br /><br />But this is what I have to say about what you have posted and I hope no one crucifies me for saying it.<br /><br />Before I say this, I would like to say that I do not believe this to be so but I will say it for the sale of debate.<br /><br /> AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE EVERYONE TO DEBUNK THIS THEORY.<br /><br />So here we go…… <br /><br />If what you have expressed is indeed the case <br /><br />THEN..<br /><br />Michel Jackson is the ANTICHRIST spoken of in the bible.<br /><br />I do NOT believe this for one second because the bible is very clear about who the antichrist is, but since the previous post brought up interesting points, I thought I would entertain the idea. <br /><br />The antichrist is said to have suffered a wound as unto death but the deadly wound was healed and he came back to life and the whole world was astonished saying “who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”<br /><br />This is in Revelations 13.<br /><br />This event talked about in the bible can be likened to what will happen if Michael decided to BAM. The whole would be totally shocked and they would think that he came back from the dead. And everyone will say “Who is like Michael Jackson?! No one can even compare!”<br /><br />I would again like to stress that I DO NOT believe that Michael is the antichrist because in the bible, the antichrist is not defined as a single individual from the future (our modern times) but rather a dynasty with certain traits that describe a well known religious leadership dynasty that has both religious and political power. The only leadership that we know of that has such influence is the papacy. <br /><br />[glow=red:2f3bg0eb]I can assure you that Michael is NOT the antichrist![/glow:2f3bg0eb]<br /><br />Happy debunking!!!!<br /><br /><3
Comments
Love you hoaxers!
First, the conclusion is Michael outsmarted whoever wanted to kill him and hoaxed his death.
Backing up by facts we have; we don't have a true lifeless Michael's photo ot the ambulance. In fact, the single photo taken by his long time friend is photoshop. If Conrad was hired by bad guys to kill Michael, he most probably will be killed as well to keep his mouth shut because even if he was paid a lot of money, there is no guarantee he can resist himself to remain silent forever. Again FAMILY; Jacksons can successfully order to kill CM (car accident) as a revenge for killing Michael, OR kidnap him and make him talk who ordered him to kill Michael and give name of those people gto either DA or get vendetta on their own way. Can they do that? YES, THEY CAN. Instead, they play double game: after they announced and "buried" MJ after 2,5 months of "passing", keep saying that Michael was KILLED, then right after it show is followed by CLUES that MJ IS ALIVE through their weird happy behavior, inconsistent answers on questions, slip ups, and NOT DOING ANYTHING for revenge and justice for MJ. Then again they take clues back (Jermain's tweet) saying there is NO hoax. Right there believer fans get confused,upset, & mad. DON't BE. Because I think of 2 reasons for that, either MIchael is NOT coming back at all or it is not the time to reveal the hoax. Michael needs to remain "dead".
With CM case, I think Michael used him as a scapegoat.Muslim bodyguards helped MJ with hoax. In fact, I've read their testimony <!-- m -->http://muzikfactorytwo.blogspot.com/201 ... icial.html<!-- m --> <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=219&t=19528<!-- l --> and Jermain's speech which to me is another clue. <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=159&t=19627<!-- l -->
Now, we have the autopsy. Whose autopsy has LAPD and prosecutor? Who is chief coroner LAKSHMANAN SATHYAVAGISWARAN? Immigrant from India, hindus. He reportedly perfomed autopsy on MJ and OJ Simpson, & other fames. <!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakshmanan ... vagiswaran<!-- m -->. Did he testify on CM prelim? I don't recall. Could this guy do favor to MJ or his guards that may have connection to him to get fake autopsy, or he was bribed taking responsibility? Could he confuse Michael look alike with real MJ? These are answers we should find out that will clarify IMO everything. I feel we are close to the answer we are hungry for. If coroner did favor, then Michael is not coming back cause he is not a type human who can hurt person that helped him. But that's not as much important for us as to know 1000% that Michael is alive. Right?
The children.
I am a mother of 3 children and while I don't have the resources or money that Michael has, if I felt that my life was in danger the first thing I would be to remove my children from immediate danger. I would like to think that Michael would do the same thing. Any parent would want to do the right thing and that would be to move the children out of harms way, right? Michael had waited how many years to have children of his own? He even said that he carried around baby dolls because he wanted a child so bad. We've all heard how he took his children practically out of the womb himself and whisked them away to the safety of his arms. I can not fathom the idea that he the man who made it his life mission to do everything in his power to help children all across the world would confess that his life was in danger but yet do nothing to ensure that his children were safe.
I could be wrong, but I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
I definitely agree.
My understanding is
1. IF NEVERLAND WAS RAID AND MJ's DIARY WITH HOAX DETAILS WAS FOUND, THEN MICHAEL NEW IT AND COULD CHANGE HIS PLAN AND ACT SOONER; NOT WATING TO BE KILLED ACCORDING TO HIS PLAN.
2.THE KILLER WOULD NOT BOTHER TO FOLLOW DETAILS OF HOAX PLAN IN RE TIMING, DATES, NUMEROLOGY, STORY,NAMES, etc. BECAUSE THERE IS NO POINT. NO ONE HAD KNOWN MICHAEL'S PLAN DETAILS FOR THEM TO FOLLOW IT TO DEMOSTRATE THAT MJ HOAXED HIS DEATH ACCORDING TO HIS PLAN.
3. If Michael is dead at all, why we don't have real death picture. Instead we have photoshop posted on youtube and confirmed by Oxman. Was that aslo done by killers according to Michael's hoax plan inviting Ben? THAT WOULD BE RISKY FOR THEM TO INVOLVE MORE PEOPLE TO THEIR MURDER PLAN BESIDES CONRAD. MORE UNNECESSARY WITNESS & PAYOUT.
Why not an open casket? When James Brown passed away they showed him in the casket! Don't tell me because they had to remove his brain, bla bla bla.. that is irrelevant. Today they fix dead people with make up and they fix hair very nicely . Unless the person is disfigured that is something else. They still did not engraved his crypt, yet his daughter wears a bracelet 1959-2009, I would understand if they were a poor family did not have the money to pay for the engravement, what on earth??? They are millionaires. My first first scenario when he passed on June 25/2009 was he faked his death because he did not want to do the 50 concerts. He couldn't back out because if he did AEG would have sewed him millions,and millions, the best thing was to fake his death make more money with the movie THIS IS IT (which he did) and much more, which it did happen. I had written a post earlier stating that Murray was helping Michael reporting what the illuminati wanted to kill Michael, Murray was the scapegoat, more I think about it the more I feel the Illuminati has nothing to do with it. Murray did help Michael, faking his death somehow, he is the one who cleaned all the loose ends, the tapes missing from Michael's room. The Ironic thing is that Michael told Randy Phillips he wants Murray to be his doctor and that is final, so Michael is the one who chose Murray, I am sure they had an agreement somehow. Michael was not addicted to propofol, nor any othe pills, he had no insomnia. This was all a ruse to show us how fragile Michael was. I cannot shake this feeling I have, that Michael at 50 did not have the stamina he had in his 30's and 40's he was afraid of failure so he took this way out. You know Michael is 1 yr older then I and believe me I would do the same, if I had all that money I would find a real good hidding place and just leave. I am sure most of you will not agree, please <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ --> my opinion like I respected yours. Like I said this was my first scenario from the day he supposedly passed then I changed my mind, but now I am going back <!-- slolol/ -->lolol/<!-- slolol/ -->
Monday, June 29, 2009
Members of Michael Jackson's family have begun stripping his home of his possessions and hunting for a large amount of cash he had hidden at the California mansion. The pop legend passed away on Thursday (25Jun09) following a cardiac arrest at his rented Holmby Hills home.
A removal van was spotted at the residence just 24 hours after the star's shocking death, with his family believed to be packing up his possessions and putting them into a storage facility. Jackson's former nanny Grace Rwaramba claims the singer's mother, Katherine, called her shortly after his demise to ask about a sum of money the superstar is believed to have stashed at the house.
Rwaramba says, "Katherine just called me. She said, ‘Grace, you remember Michael used to hide cash at the house. I am here. Where can it be?’ I told her to look at the garbage bags and under the carpets. This woman just lost her son a few hours ago and she is calling me to know where the money is!"
So here, we see the family were really concerned about the MONEY, not about MJ...Does seem like a family in mourning to you ?????? And why the importance of the cash...as TS has nicely pointed out with this post....
Its all about the money....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 2 million to be exacthttp://www.absolutepictures.com/news.php?id=8080
“Michael WAS murdered,” declared La Toya, 53. “And we don’t think just one person was involved. Rather, it was a conspiracy of people. I feel it was all about money. Michael was worth well over a billion in music publishing assets and somebody killed him for that. He was worth more dead than alive.”
As she posed a series of vital questions about 50-year-old Jacko’s sudden death 17 days ago at his rented mansion in Los Angeles, La Toya said the pop icon was:
■FED a series of addictive drugs to keep him submissive and controlled.
■KEPT from his family by manipulative people who blocked their visits.
■WORKED to exhaustion even though he DIDN’T want to do the gruelling string of 50 shows due to start at London’s O2 arena tomorrow.
■ROBBED of [highlight=#ff0000:jnhubkc2]TWO MILLION[/highlight:jnhubkc2] in cash and gems as he lay dying.
So TS...you show us notes with pictures of MJ on it to the value of 2 million dollars...
Is this a clue ????
[highlight=#bfff80:5lmkm4c0]render to ceaser what is ceaser's and to god what is god's[/highlight:5lmkm4c0]
i didn't give the whole scene but this came from when the disciples asked jesus about paying taxes to ceaser. he asked for a coin. he showed it to them and asked who was pictured on it and they responded ceaser.
so ts is this to say something about rendering to michael what is michaels?
Exactly......and then Katherine is shopping for sleeping bags at Target the next day....
I don't think any of us will be able to come with absolute proof, most of it will be just common sense and 'too big to be a coincidence', but that's good enough when there are 100+ of those so called 'coincidences'.
I have been quite certain since the news broke on June 25, but Dave Dave really sealed the deal after all the 'coincidences' I found in between. But Dave Dave is not proof, far from that. Although I am convinced it was MJ, I can't prove it. All we do know is that it was not the real Dave Dave, that's easy to see when comparing the footage with pictures from Dave.
As for the illuminati out-thinking MJ: no way. As mentioned earlier, they are predictable, where MJ is definitely UNpredictable. I really think he's too smart for them and he has the connections, power and money to fool them. He himself stated multiple times that they were out to get him and that he feared for his life. Unless Mike has an IQ as low as the average room temperature (in Celcius), I really don't think he would hire a doctor that can't even do CPR.
I also agree with JukeBox about the family: they would NOT let this happen or be involved in a plot to kill him. But let's say they would, why didn't they let the life insurance be paid out? Why cash it and loose a lot of money?
Also, why release a will where none of them get anything? If they would have planned to kill him, why not fabricate a will in which they all get lots of $$$? No one gets anything and even the kids have to wait for any of it. So IF they would be in on a murder plot, the motive clearly isn't money. Is attention a motive? Nah... Out of 10 people, one or two might be evil to the bone like that, but all of them? Doesn't make sense.
And the Death Certificate with the 'Joseph' on it, and not the Joe. There is no proof what his legal name was on June 25, could have been John Doe for all we know, but aka's must be stated on a DC as well. MJ used both Joseph and Joe on ducuments, and even in court (Dangerous deposition vs. 2005 trial). That means that those two names have to be stated on the DC.
LaToya said she signed the DC, it's a lie. LaToya is NOT authorized to sign a DC, never in a million years. So why lie? 2 options: she lies for her brother to make a hoax more believable or she lies for the illuminati to make a hoax more believable. In the last case: what is her motive? And why would the illuminati make it look like a hoax? So that people will dig into the story and find out what we found out? Doesn't make sense either.
And if MJ was killed by the illuminati, Murray would have been either in jail, or dead by now. He would have been the 'lone gunman'. There is too much speculation, also in the press, whether or not Murray should be found guilty.
Lastly (for now, I will think of more when I had some sleep), if MJ were dead and murdered, than YOU, my dear TS, would be pure evil. That I don't believe either. If I would be wrong about that, it would be my biggest fail ever. I have failed before, but in those cases I always had doubts. No doubts now. But if you want to try and make me believe you are pure evil, give it a go <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."For two years I have been trying to convince my husband that this is a hoax. He thinks MJ was murdered. So judging by that experience this isn't going to be easy. I'm going to get some thoughts together and try to post later.
Ooooohhhhh, my teeny brain cells can't chew all of this, but I guess there's always this to ask for the sake of debate: Has it ever been asked if it's possible that, after he had already begun planning out the hoax, that THEY somehow found out about it, and had MJ and the family blackmailed/threatened or something- eventually capturing or killing him and forcing the rest of the family to carry out the hoax as if it were a hoax, including all of this "Murray killing a double or not/25th confusion", to mask the real deed/imprisoned-somewhere-MJ? Even if people figured out what they had done, there really wouldn't be any way for us or the like-minded to do anything about it, and then with all the confusion and whatnot..if he were dead, he's dead, and THEY've already made two years worth of astronomical bucks.. and the family is stuck in the grip.. or maybe he's still with them, too.. and this would all put peeps like Ortega in on it- hm, not likely, given how friendly they seem.. but I guess the word is "SEEM".. I know I went wrong on this somewhere, but alas, I'll ask..
A man who uses bulletproof vest from the year 2001 and that his family is aware of the fears of a possible murder as she relates the Toya in his book and none of them did anything,.. that would change my perception of them. And as said Souza do not believe that Michael will be contracted to a perfect incompetent as Murray and least with all their fears of being killed
Ahh this is a nice topic to discuss about. Well if Michael was murdered then the family has to be illuminati, as well as Kenny Ortega, TII dancers, Teddy Riley, many of Michael's friend's and also YOU. To me the most solid proof of the hoax is the numerology. I do not believe illuminati would bother to arrange the dates like this and I do not believe they would bother to give out clues. On the contrary they would be trying to cover their tracks. I don't get the reason why they would bother to send someone here to tell us more about the details of the hoax because as much as we learn about the hoax, as much as we reach to a higher awareness about illuminati and NWO. How many of us knew this much about illuminati and NWO before June 25th? I do believe that Michael wanted to let us know and this is one of the main reasons of the hoax. For years he tried to show it with his songs and speeches but unfortunately that wasn't enough for people to see the naked truth and he knew that. He had to do something bigger! And he did. And thanks to Michael WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
The clues we have been receiving are so unique and so Michaelish and to me noone but only Michael can arrange all these details and clues. We're getting the clues from everywhere. Not only from one single media source. Commercials, movies, tv shows, paintings etc... I don't see a reason for illuminati to give out clues through movies, commercials or tv shows. And why would they bother to make it look like a hoax and he is still alive? If they killed him, that's it. They killed him and they would do nothing. They don't need to do anything. They would have reached their goal already by killing him, no need to give out clues.
I know that some of the fans think that Michael's family can do anything to earn more $$$. I do believe that Michael loves his family a lot and his family loves him a lot too. I would never ever believe that they would be included in a murder plot where their brother, their son was going to get killed. NO WAY! The family knows about the hoax and noone could force them for the Liberian Girl pictures at the funeral. Noone could force them to make the memorial and the funeral on those dates under a full moon. This is an amazing plan which was planned for long years. This is something that has never ever done before. This is a movie, an ARG, a show, a take over and the story of a King who comes BACK to life after death. This is so unique and so genius. This is so MICHAEL!
I would like to read if you or any of the believers can debunk the hoax with all the aspects we discussed till today. Then I would be leaving everything behind, mourn for Michael (once more), and then go back to my pre hoax life. Until then, I'll be here as a KNOWER. Noone and nothing can shake my faith! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
The part that I highlighted, is that from the book? That Michael used a bulletproof vest? Possibly so if he was in fear for his life, but then again I ask, if he was in such danger why did he go out with his children? He continued to do things in public and brought his children along with him. Why?
Perhaps I'm not wrapping my head around this the right way.
TS you did a very smart thing with these levels ..is this part of some training or it's just to keep us busy?[/offtopic:2ozzou3y]
I also figured that you would wait for the dust to settle. Lol Even so, it’s nice to see you post again!
I know that I hardly ever post on these redirects. I’d rather lurk around and see what’s being said. But for some reason, I feel compelled to get involved.
Now as for the evidence to support the belief that Michael is alive….I really have none to offer. Like many have said before me, this is all based on a gut feeling, intuition and what my heart has been telling me for the past year and 8 months.
This has been a spiritual journey for me and it has changed my life COMPLETELY. I was not a fan of his at all and I didn’t follow him nor did I know much about him. And yet his ‘death’ knocked the wind out of me!
Something that manages to pull the rug from under me (a former atheist who was desensitized to the world around me) like that and leave me emotionally crippled on the floor with no hope of ever being able to stand on my own two feet without God has to have a purpose.
For everything, there is a reason.
My main argument against the murder theory is as follows:
I firmly believe that there was a hidden agenda behind the accusations that Michael faced in both 1993 and 2003. Yes I do agree that there were people in the industry that were jealous of his success but I do not believe that this was the main reason that Michael faced such accusations. As most of you all remember, the media firestorm that occurred as a result of both cases was phenomenal and it pretty much overshadowed everything else that was occurring at the time.
I am of the belief that Michael was framed by the powers that be in order to cause a distraction.
But a distraction from what? >>>>>>>>I think it is our job to figure this one out.
As for the illuminati, I would rather say ‘the powers that be’ because they are not the only ones that hold the control but rather are controlled, along with other groups, by an even higher up organization.
I do not really like to say’ Illuminati’ because it’s generic and they are not the only ones that control but rather are the ones who are controlled by an even higher up organization.
Killing Michael would only serve to hinder their agenda to demoralize the people of the world.
Just think about it…
Look what happened in the wake of his ‘death’. People started listening to his music even more. Many now have a deeper understanding of what he is all about (L.O.V.E.) even if they have no idea that he is still alive. They still carry his legacy.
He now has an even bigger presence in the world, a presence that cannot be diminished. His message continues with an even louder and clearer voice, the voice of his ever so devoted and passionate fans.
With Michael physically ‘gone’, the powers that be would not be able to use Michael’s plight as a media diversion to thwart attention away from something that they would much rather have kept under the carpet so to speak.
It would not be in their (the powers that be) best interest to have Michael murdered.
Here’s another thing that gets me:
The family is EXTREMELY complacent when dealing with Michael’s ‘murder’ as they claim it to be.
Sarahli and The RPM :
I totally agree with you on your all or your reasoning. I think someone here said it better than I could have. >
If Michael really is dead (which I know he isn’t), my high regard for the family would most certainly diminish because, judging from their strange behavior and lack or interest in justice ‘for a life taken’, the Jackson family, including his children, has to be the most heartless family I have EVER come to know of.
I feel so horrible to say this but the only reason that I can even say such a thing is because I truly believe that there is a hoax and that the family is in on it.
But Like I said, I have no concrete evidence to support my theories or beliefs…All I base them on is logic.
God bless you all,
~alma~