I see a lot of validity in your male friend's "perspective." I tend to AGREE that they never did go ALL THE WAY, especially since we all know what Michael was "blessed with" (i'm being serious here). I doubt, that she would've been able to resist HIM afterwards, had they "sealed the deal"..... regardless, of his experience/abilities (at that time). He already came "equipped", which is a BONUS. You can, easily, school an individual who's open to suggestion.
I do, agree on the dangling the carrot theory. But I STILL think that a little more than that, happened. I mean, he had been friends with Tatum, Brooke and even if he had crushes on them, i'm sure, they PALED in comparison to what Diana (embodied to HIM). I think, if anything, "she" was a challenge to HIM. He wanted to "tame" her, while learning a thing or two, in the process.
Initially, I suspect that she did just want to manipulate him. But again, I think that she felt something too and perhaps...felt guilty about it (due to the age difference, etc).
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that OTHERS (ie...Quincy, Katherine, Liz) knew the extent of what was going on and "bribed" Diana, into backing off and/or (letting him down easy- FOR HER OWN SAKE).
It makes sense, considering the MJ & Tatiana thing (for instance). Michael's "people" would've wanted him to stay focused on his MUSIC and, therefore, wouldn't want him to be distracted by.....not only a LOVE INTEREST, but controversy over "one" that they KNEW had great power over him (Diana).
I've wondered if Tracy Ellis Ross (Diana's daughter), is privy to what really went on. She seems quite close to her mother. I'm sure the topic had to have come up, at some point. <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
'Aint NO way he was feelin' her like that, behind some.... "I admire her" SHIT.
Maybe the 'plan'...after some time (or Kathryn can no longer care for the kids) off they go to Diana and daddy...? strikes me as a brilliant plan..especially if only 1 is still working...and there it is in black and white in the 'will' ...Diana has been laying low in all this since the 'death', out of the prying eyes of tabloid junk...Good things come to those who wait ...eh Mike? lol
But WHY haven't we heard from any of MJ's closest friends?! Diana, Quincy, Liza, LIZ? CHRIS TUCKER!!!I mean COME ON...not ONE of them has made any kind of real statement about how MJ impacted their lives, etc.
Hell...Tiger Woods is STILL "talking." and the media have been ALL UP IN HIS A_S, yet,
The KING of POP seems to have gone under the radar.
I just don't get it.
I've been thinking that, "behind the scenes".... they (MJ & Diana)MADE UP...long time ago! Could've been part of the plan to have made it appear as though they were still estranged. I guarantee that, wherever MJ is....Diana is within arms length reach and/or is a fake "phone call" away). <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
If so, I'm GLAD..and hope that they're diligently making UP for lost time. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I THINK LIKE A BIG POSIBILITY THAT MJ IS WITH DIANA...
WE NEVER SAW HER AFTER THE MEMORIAL, BURIAL... WE NEVER SAW HE THERE NEITHER... SO:
SHE HAVE TO BE WITH HIM AND HIM WITH HER...
AFTER ALL OF THIS YEARS WE DO NOT KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THEY... SO MAYBE THEY´RE TOGETHER FINALLY!
WHAT SENSE MAKE DIANA GUARDIAN OF THE KIDS IF THEY DON´T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP???
IT´S IMPPOSIBLE THAT MJ LEAVE THIS KIDS WITH DIANA IF THEY ARE NOT TOGETHER OR CLOSER FOR ALL THIS YEARS SINCE THE WILL WAS SIGNED.
HE KNOWS WHAT TO DO! COME ON! THEY HAVE TO BE TOGETHER! I HOPE SO.... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Bringing some new LIFE into this stagnant thread <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
I was just watching the video for Billie Jean and there's a shot of a newspaper where the name 'Billie Jean' appears. I wonder if it was just a coincidence that in Lady Sings the Blues Diana's character gets her stage name (Billie) from a newspaper and the audience is presented with the information in a similar fashion...
<!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
On the LipstickAlley, MJ & DIANA thread (another site),someone mentioned Rebbie's song,CENTIPEDEsong, and how MJ wrote it....with a ton of methaphors in the lyrics.
Your love
Is like a ragin' fire, oh
You're a snake that's on the loose
The strike is your desire
Don't you know in the quiet of the night
Is when the snake is in the crawlin'
And the moon starts to glow then disappear
When the time is really right
Is when the centipede is crawlin'
You'll be crying in the night so many tears
And you're crawlin' like a centipede
it was about a snake..but not the reptilian kind.
The Centipede's "strike" is more like the "stroke". Moon starts to "glow" and disappear (*cough*getsbiggerandthenfindsaHOME*cough*). Crying in the night so many tears is the "moans of PASSION"
**Michael was bragging about the Force and nobody knew.** <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Now, you might say
But wouldn't it be kind of weird to have your sister singing the song if that was what it was about?
It was probably a "private" joke to himself, that no one else was suppose to GET. A song that he wrote that he just happened to give to his sister (so as not to rouse any suspicion about his skills in the bedroom...ie Diana <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I see you Mike! "Virgin" my arse. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
More "inside info"...
Incogneato:
diana...not sure if she was his first...but the relationship went on for a while. and she didnt like him around other females...
after thriller it became difficult for that to continue in secret. he wanted to go public with it, she did not. she ended up marrying someone else and basically this caused michael to go into a deep depression. he got over her eventually but for a long time he didnt even refer to her as diana. he would just say "that woman". he still loved her though.
When Mike sees
something he likes he tends to stick with it. A LOT of the ladies he messed wit are older and are wealthy.
Oh, the family KNOWS! Especially the brothers. They would ALWAYS tease Michael saying you ain't so innocent now. And they ALL know about Diana Ross. Even Mama Katherine. Katherine and Diana get along well now and Diana HAS seen the kids since Mike's passing.
Well, Diana was his first. The brothers were just happy he was messin' around with someone. Also, Katherine and Diana have been cordial for years. At first Katherine was jealous of Michael and Diana's relationship. Kinda like "that's MY son!" because they were very close when Mike was young. However, after she found out their backstory from Michael and how enjoyable she made his childhood despite the biz n all, she came around.
A "source" stated that michael had his first time with diana when he was 20. right b4 off the wall came out. michael was "addicted" to her. called her alot. bought her gifts. katherine knew because he told her. she wasnt happy. he also told janet. told katherine that he was going to marry diana. katherine told him it wasnt gonna happen. told him to watch out. diana got with gene simmons but was still sleeping with michael. he called himself "breaking it off". so he started hanging out with brooke shields but he wasnt interested in her "like that". hooks up with diana again.
mj would disappear sometimes. (yes we all know this). and when he would return he would avoid questions about his whereabouts. supposedly katherine was worried because "she didnt like him just leaving without telling her goodbye at least".
one particular weekend he disappeared and came back "happier than usual" and was
"talking about getting married and kids". this was in 83.
yall keep in mind mj could have been going ANYWHERE when he would vanish from his fam's house. tmz wasnt invented yet...
they say diana.
Michael knows damn well he didn't write this about a pet snake!
Sounds like Michael wrote it from.... her point of view, of how things he did "weren't enough" for her.
I bet anything... he asked for that split screen of him and Diana. He did say he controlled editing in his videos (WHICH COULD BE "APPLIED" TO MANY AREAS, IN REGARDS TO THE "HOAX") <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
Another quote...
mj loved the movie Unfaithful....because he could relate to it. *coughs*Diana Ross/Robert Silberstein/Michael Jackson*coughs*
Bernadette Stanis,(Thelma)from "Good Times", SUMS IT ALL UP...in this interview.
[youtube:318lodyt]
I think she HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
They must've been **coughgettingitINcough** during this time.
He's all CONFIDENT, like...I ain't worried about that hug cause she ain't goin' NOW WHERE. <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
MJs lyrics were telling. Leave Me Alone"
I Don't Care What You Talkin'
'Bout Baby
I Don't Care What You Say
Don't You Come Walkin'
Beggin' Back Mama
I Don't Care Anyway
Time After Time I Gave You All Of My Money
No Excuses To Make
Ain't No Mountain That I
Can't Climb Baby
All Is Going My Way
Aint no mountain I can't climb is referencing The Supreme's song, but the eye-opener is that "Arnee" (Diane's husband), was an avid climber of "mountains" <!-- s --><!-- s --> ... which also led to his death). Hows that for IRONY?
I think she loved him, but really at that time and place there was no way. It would have ruined both of them. also he loved her and she prob thought he'd get over it.. this song also lets me now he wouldnt talk to her but she tried.
Also...in "just good friends".... right after he says doggone lover, he adlibs 'mama', which is more than likely, his a nickname for diana.
It's funny, because Katherine is mother and Diana is "mama".
Now why did I just imagine Michael finding out everything he could about Arne when he found out who he was?
In the video, a peacock pops up when Michael sings the verse about a mountain.(see attachment!)
The Jackson's production company was called Peacock Productions but I don't think that's solely what Michael had in mind in the LMA video or the Dangerous album cover when he used the peacock. The cover is cryptic so it's open to interpretation.
Then there is the peacock which is on his nose. Which reminds me of this.... it was right under your nose...all along. *HINT HINT*
Off topic, but I say that what we're looking for in regards this "hoax" is, somewhere, right in front of our eyes, people! <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
reading mj's moms bio and she said mj loved his animals we all know about Prince and Proces and Lola and the other llama but there were a pair of peacocks winter and spring... so everyone knows what a may /december relationship is right? and we all know he said Diana was like a peacock, im just saying....
Speaking of peacocks...this broach appears at the beginning of Moonwalker. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
LOL!! That man was so freaking clever. It's amazing how he continues to impress me....
She was nurturing like Katherine, fun like Janet, and probably a good lover.
One flick of my tongue changes
The meaning of the world
And you say
That's impossible
That's not impossible to do, oh
And you digest what I can see
The taste of you can be
I know the universal law
Primeval times
With a little stimulation
It'll come once more, and you say
A lot of people don't really like Diana but they accept the fact that he loved her. That's basically how I feel. I think the depth of his love for her is fascinating.
your siggy emerald city hotel clip!!! when i noticed it i was like yea the wiz... then MJ walking in "shit just got real" ROTF!!!! I LOVE IT!!! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Your "digging" amazes me! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> Thanks for sharing all that information. Imagine to be loved like that by Michael, *sigh* what a beautiful dream...
I can't take credit for all the "digging". I found it on another site and transferred it here.
Found these quotes from another MJ board that are coming from a girl whose friend's mother was friends with Diana from the late 1970s to 1990s and then from the woman, herself.
Oh no I never knew Diana. My friend's mother knew her. They were friends. I just got a chance to speak with her she says that it was clearly evident that Michael was in love with her. She first met him when he and Diana were going to the AMA's in 1981 and she had to babysit Diana's children. She said that Michael looked handsome(of course) and that he was shy for a minute until Diana walked out of her bedroom Michael changed and he started opening up and talking and laughing. Diana, of course is not a shy person at all and Carry said that she seemed to bring out a more outgoing side in Michael. She said that Michael gave her big hugs and didnt seem to want to let go. And they would always seem to flirt and play around like Diana would run up behind Michael and start tickling his stomach and sometimes Michael would do the same thing. Oh, and she said that Diana would also sometimes sit in Michael's lap so the 1996 WMA's was not the first time she did it. She heard the tapes of that Rabbi guy and what Michael said about Brooke, she said that he must have loved Diana too at the same time. She mentioned to Diana that she thought that Michael was really interested in her and Diana said "oh please," and laughed. Carry said she wasnt sure what to make of that comment. She didnt know whether she meant that Diana didnt believe that Michael liked her in that way or if she was hiding something. She said that it was very sweet seeing them together. She said that there were times where she was looking after Diana's children and Michael and Diana would be in the living room talking for a while. She never butted in on their conversaiton of course because it she said it seemed private but she said that they looked lovely and they were very comfortable with each other and Diana's girls adored Michael, and he really loved them as well. She told me that she wished that they would have gotten together because they seemed made for each other. One more thing this is so cute, she said that Michael probably was sexually attracted to her as well. She said from time to time she would catch him looking at Diana's butt and she would nudge him in the side and he would turn to her and innocently say "what" like nothing happened. LOL!
Okay this time she told me a lot of details and I am going to try and type this without breaking into tears. Okay she said that there was definately some chemistry between them they would always laugh joke play around and stuff like that. They would have pillow fights and run in and outside the house with the kids. She told me that Diana could be a tomboy at times. Here is a quote somebody said about her from one of Diana's books. "She has a chameleon quality...one minute she's a little kid, a tomboy...the next minute she's a ver sophisticated woman." If any of you have read the Rabbi's book one of the transcripts Michael says that his perfect woman would be tomboyish but classy as well. Diana fit that mold exactly. Anyway Carry said that she wasnt sure of sexual chemistry especially on Diana side, she said she believed she was attracted to Michael but wasnt sure if there was a sexual attraction. But for Michael their definately was, he would look at her butt alot. She told me that Diana may not have had a lot of chest but she did have a butt!LOL So she said that Diana also loved children, she said that there were times when her girls would have their friends over and Diana would really interact with the children. She said that they were far more alike than they were different. She said that Diana and Michael one time went out together with her children on a boat that Diana had rented just so Michael could get out of his sheltered life. Diana cared about Michael very deeply and Michael cared about her very deeply. Carry then told me a story that one day Michael came to Diana's home in Conneticut completely took them both by surprise. He was in disguise a big afro, strange sunglasses, and a fake mustache. She said it was in 82, 83 or 84. She noticed something very different in Michael that day regarding Diana and what she told me broke my heart. She said they were all watching a movie together Michael and Diana was sitting on the couch and she and the kids were on the floor. Diana allowed Michael to wrap his arms around her waist and I am going to quote Carry directly: "the look on Michael's face when his arms was around her reminded me of the way my husband looked at me on our wedding day and I nearly cried." Then she said that she one day just asked Michael upfront what he felt about Diana and he said that he loved her with all of his heart.
She said that she met Arne and said that he was a nice man but she never in a million years thought that Diana would acually a man like him. She went to her wedding, she said she wasnt expecting Michael to be there even though Diana invited him and of course he didnt show up. She said she watched the 86 AMA's and got a little angry at Diana. She said she was thinking here you have a man right in front of you that loved the hell out of you, would probably do anything in this world for you and you marry somebody else who you have only known for two months! She also said that back then it was uncommon for women to date younger men especially ten years or more younger which Michael was 14 years younger. She said that she felt that Diana loved Michael romantically but didnt want to risk losing her career or the media frenzy.
No she said that Michael never proposed to Diana contrary to the belief. He told everyone else that he wanted to marry her but not her personally. She felt that Michael was too shy to ever ask her because even though he at times he was very comfortable around her there were other times where he seemed neverous and shy around her. She said that she imagined that those were the times that he really wanted to tell her that he loved her. So Diana never rejected him because he never asked her.
Hello all! I'm Carry that mjlover is talking about. I decided to make my own account on here so I can talk to you gals directly and I also have some more stories I like to tell. First, I like to tell you a bit about myself. I am 64 born and raised in LA. I met Diane or Diana in 1977 right before she left to film the Wiz. I was in a clothing store when she came in and we took intrest in the same shoes. We sat and talked for a while exchanged numbers and she said that she would get back in touch with me after the filming was over. About five or six months later she invited me over to her house to meet her children, she just had her three girls at this time. At that time I was an out of work nanny. She told me that she already had a nanny for her children but would let me watch them from time to time. She spoke of Michael loosely, not very much until I met him in 1981. I remember that he was very handsome that night in his sparkly red sweater. I have only seen him a few times. My guess would be at the most seven times, it could be less. I never sat down and had a long conversation with him. My conversations with him were very short and consisted of maybe one or two non personal questions. I know you gals want to know about the "relationship" between MJ and Diana. Well like I said I have never gotten into very personal details about their interaction but I could definately sense an attraction and chemistry from afar; moreso by Michael than Diana because Michael seemed to wear his heart on his sleeve. I have caught him staring at Diana, not just her butt(which he did at times) but just her and he would have this smile on his face. I definately knew that he was in love with her. Diana was a very good friend of mine and I moved to Conneticut with her and lived in an apartment which she helped me pay for. I was surprised to see Michael come all the way over to visit her from LA where he lived(if that aint love, I dont know what is). I am tired of typing now I will tell you gals more later.
Do you think this person is reliable? I mean she's not telling us any outrageous things so it doesn't seem made up but still... You know how we've just come to question everything and everyone when it comes to Michael <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Well she's very "specific", with the details. Parts of it could be exaggerated, I guess.
Though....I, personally believe it's more TRUTH than fiction.
Especially the parts about spending time with her and her kids...watching her interact with them and probably envisioning himself in that setting (within a marriage).
From another fan...
Mike used the word "dance" as a metaphor for sex in his songs.
"Who would dance, on the floor, in the round" -Billie Jean
"To escape the world I have to enjoy that simple dance" -Blood on the Dancefloor.
he used dance as a metaphor to sex as orgasm is to death.
remeber that 1987 song i just died in your arms tonight? die is also another way to say climax. so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
we really need to have a discussion about that 2000 watts song. the composition screams sexual innuendo. michael had help writing it though
[/i]
Mike seemed to enjoy expressive euphemisms & metaphors. I wonder how inventive those "special" words & terms were. I find it very interesting that some people won't even comment how words and names came about. Like Karen won't reveal how she got her nickname from Mike....
2000 Watts lyrics
Bass note, treble, stereo control, how low you go
Just enough to make your juices flow
Press play, don’t stop, rotate, too hot
You feel I’m real
I’m everything you need, so tell me what’s the deal
[CHORUS]
2000 Watts, 8 ohms, 200 volts, real strong
Too much of that, fuse blown
Be careful what you say don’t overload
2000 Watts, 8 ohms, 200 volts, real strong
Too much of that, fuse blown
Be careful what you say don’t overload
3D, high speed, feedback, Dolby
Release two or three, when I reach I can go ‘til I hit my peak
Compact steelo, chico, D-Lo, highpost lady
Shorty really wanna be there for me
This is what i found, sounds believable:
I'm a songwriter and I understand lyrics, I've done extensive research into MJ's songwriting method and techniques and what he's done here is use a metaphor for sex; it's about an orgasm.
VERSE ONE: Bass note, treble, stereo control, how low you go
Just enough to make your juices flow
Press play, don't stop, rotate, too hot
You feel I'm real
I'm everything you need, so tell me what's the deal
Verse one is about the foreplay; 'how low you go, juices flow, press play, ect...'
The beginning of the song is about the beginning of sex.
CHORUS: 2000 Watts, 8 ohms, 200 volts, real strong
Too much of that, fuse blown
Be careful what you say don't overload
2000 Watts, 8 ohms, 200 volts, real strong
Too much of that, fuse blown
Be careful what you say don't overload
The chorus is clearly the main part of the song. 2,000 watts = climax. The use of terms such as 'real strong' and 'fuse blown' are completely overt sexual innuendos.
VERSE TWO: 3D, high speed, feedback, Dolby
Release two or three, when I reach I can go 'til I hit my peak
Compact steelo, chico, D-Lo, highpost lady Shorty really wanna be there for me
This is also obvious; perhaps the most sexually vivid part of the song.
'Release two or three, when I reach I can go 'til I hit my peak' - sex.
3d, highspeed, feedback, dolby
release two or three can i, when i reach i can go til' i hit my peak.
this is what i'm talking about. it's sounds like the height of ecstacy is what he's referring to. or is it about technology??
7:05 on.... he's speaking to 'mama' (sweating to her too!) <!-- s --><!-- s -->
[youtube:33ckhi3j]
It seems that a lot of people have the thinking that ''what you see is what you get'' when it comes to the stars.
People thinks they have a clear idea of a celebrity's life because they read magazines, and watch paparazzi shots. I keep seeing thi9s kind of behavior.
So if they never saw or hear about Michael Jackson's sexual exploits or romantic life until he got married or have some proof of it, they'll say he was a virgin or has no interest in women until then.
I love to see the Jackson concert vids, especially when they dance in unison! and 1 thing I noticed yesterday, all the Jackson brothers got B-O-D-Y! wooo <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->
Just because Diana Ross knew how to handle her man, doesn't mean she cougared "sweet innocent now-legal" Michael Jackson! I know women like her, and I just have to marvel at how naturally, instinctively, freely, they love. Nothing stingy or artificial or manipulative about it. And nothing predatory.
All that glamourous aura and yet a kind, respectful heart. That's why he fell for HER. Sigh.
I think I would have died from the intrigue, just to have stumbled upon such sweetness in ANY man, ever, in my social circle (the men seemed to have been ALL DONE with that, if they ever were sweet, by the time they appeared before me; <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->).
THAT is NOT <!-- s:mad: -->:mad:<!-- s:mad: --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> something Miss Ross would have disrespected, especially having practically raised him during some of his formative years.
She had EYES; she HAD to KNOW what a priceless thang was well within her grasp. She also knew, (as women do!) that he had a hot bad crush on her. She had jaded MEN to manipulate and play with. She would NOT do that to my Boy. (OR his older brothers--they were all "family"; duh.)
He gave and gave and gave to her, on songs for her recordings and videos, which only made him fall harder for her beauty and seductive vibe in the WORK . The object of HIS affection, SEEMINGLY playing only to him, using HIS music and lyrics, HAD to be driving him crazy-MAD with undying LOVE, poor little guy! And mostly, in the public eye.
I think she LOVED being seen with him, and LOVED HIM. He was a respectful, fascinating date, whom she didn't have to wrestle with afterwards, to earn her night out.
No baggage, just a good time with a beautiful young hottie, her FRIEND! She knew he was shy, and probably was helping him to "get out" socially. She also was a convenient, UNCOMPLICATED date for him---he didn't have to submit to a mad groping, EITHER, from someone he merely took out to an event (SSSSHEEEESH!).
I think I know she loved his pure heart and innocent soul and wouldn't hurt him or harm THAT friendship, for ANYTHING.
He's said a few times that the romance part was all in his head. Why don't you all BELIEVE him? Why embarrass him?
There's no shame in that.
It only PROVES that his romantic/people instincts were good, in his choice of the object of his devotion---that she WAS a beautiful (and a trustworthy, quality) person inside and out.
He named the girl in the song, "Diana" because he likes the name. Look at his fascination with "Lady Di". Not such a mystery. All the peacock symbolism is just MJ PLAYIN' witcha!!! There are lots of symbols all over all his stuff. Anyway, wouldn't Diana be like a "PeaHEN"? FYI, the cock is the boy...
There's the other thing, too. Michael always gets what Michael goes after, and he ALWAYS goes after what he REALLY wants. He realized THAT was a puppy love. He knew what he wanted and she, somehow, sometimes, was not... quite... IT. Fever aside, and her dating other men, provided the clarity required to step back objectively and break free of her spell (and having learned how to hypnotically ensnare all of us, from the way she made HIM feel..., moved on to put it to some good use, winning the rest of the world and financing his charities). Anyway...
Just curious...He can have any young thing he wants. Why dredge up this old gossip, when there are recent (before June 2009) pictures of him all over the internet, with at least four different YOUNG chicks sitting on his lap? I tried to find this particularly juicy one, I saw before I came here today, but it was mysteriously pulled. <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> I'll keep looking.
Perhaps he realized it was puppy love after Diana decided to marry someone else? If Diana had wanted a proper relationship with Michael, or even marry him, I don't think he would've hesitated a second <!-- s --><!-- s --> . The only time I've heard "Michael" say the romance was only in his head is in the Glenda tapes, does that mean you believe they're for real or have you heard him say that somewhere else?
Here is the thought that occurred to me when reading the previous couple of posts. When Michael was young - in the late 1970's and early 1980's, he was probably quite a bit more mature than most of the girls who were the same age. At that time kids in college loved to party a lot and use alcohol and drugs. He was caught up in wanting to be around kids his own age and wanting to understand them, but not really being a part of the whole scene. So he tended to be more of an observer when he was with people his own age. He was able to relate better to someone who was older because of his own maturity level at the time. So that brought him to have more of an attraction for Diana Ross, in addition to the fact that they had known each other for such a long time.
Perhaps he realized it was puppy love after Diana decided to marry someone else? If Diana had wanted a proper relationship with Michael, or even marry him, I don't think he would've hesitated a second <!-- s --><!-- s --> . The only time I've heard "Michael" say the romance was only in his head is in the Glenda tapes, does that mean you believe they're for real or have you heard him say that somewhere else?
I did hear what sounds like MJ on the Glenda tapes. I believe (altho ANYthing can be faked digitally) those could be legitimate, as MJ has a reputation for talking at length on the phone with folk, AND being artlessly honest about things that most men don't admit---even to confidants...just not that sexy transcript of rumored tapes, which <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> conveniently, no one can produce.
I'm certain I READ it somewhere, as well---maybe <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> the MJ/Boteach book? Not particularly about D.R., but, I'll wrack my brain and try to remember exactly where, he said his early "romances" were completely innocent and mostly in his imagination, or theirs, wanting something "different" with someone who either wanted something else, or didn't think of him that way. Yeah, I bet it was the Michael Jackson Tapes book, but I'll flip through it again...
You know, when you've never been in love, interacting with a real person, before, you're NEVER sure, if "this is it", or yeah, they like me, they touch me and let me touch them, but, Is This It?? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
We laugh, and kid around and tease each other. We are relaxed with one another. We kinda-sorta KNOW stuff about each other---not secrets, really, but maybe little-known things about one another, just by virtue of proximity, making the relationship FEEL more intimate than it really is...But HOW do I tell if THIS is it? How do I tell if they are meaning what I mean, when we hold hands, when he kisses me quickly because I'm silly and dear to him --or is he REALLY breaking the ice, hoping I'll kiss him back? and ON and ON...
Until something is DECLARED, and for some reason, there is SUCH a dance about who says it first---especially, if you're shy and not even sure it ISN'T all in your applehead... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> No one wants to be wrong and feel foolish, gosh. It is becoming way TOO important to you, now. This thing CAN'T go wrong...You can FEEL like you're "involved" with someone, without them even being in it AT ALL with you, even to the point that you "just KNOW" they have feelings for you, they are just hesitant to declare...
But...they actually don't. It is ALL your perspective and inexperience, and wishful thinking, COLORING everything they do or say; every look, touch, act of consideration...when all the time they are just being nice to someone they feel safe with(no tension or expectations, because they believe YOU are just being nice and friendly, yourself, as YOU are keeping your true HOT feelings a secret!).
If the other person KNEW that you were misunderstanding their intentions, they would be mindful of all that unconcious touching, stirring you up. A nice person, who did actually LIKE you, wouldn't feed your misery once they knew you had it bad for them.
I really think that's what was going on. Ms. Ross has always been very hands-on, spontaneous, and affectionate. They knew each other well, worked together some, and had alot to talk about. I don't think she knew how deeply he felt, because he was so reserved. [MAN! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> I love that <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> ] How's a neophyte to know the difference between an affectionate squeeze and a HOLY MELTdown <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> , Batman <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->, kind of embrace---when EVERY touch or look that loved one gives you causes lightning to strike when it's all new to you??
I can see it (the insecurity, self-questioning, melting love and angst!!) on his face in alot of pictures, and, it ALL comes back to me, too, every twinge of <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> . I don't think you EVER get over being SO wrong, even though you SEE, "ok, yup, I misread you, whatever, I get it ..."--because it felt so right and true!! Ah, Love...<!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Am I the only one crying my eyes out to Diana's tribute? <!-- s --><!-- s --> I saw another version where one could see her sing more of "Missin you" with Michael's beautiful face in the background and that really made me cry rivers... And she seemed to choking be on her words/lyrics a bit but that might just be me. Idk what to think, it's really hard to believe that Michae's still around physically. If there was a hoax I'd think people like Diana and Stevie would know about it but to everyone that has seen Stevie's tributes to Michael, that is real grief and sadness <!-- s --><!-- s --> . It is not fake, just like one can't really hide joy or love.
Comments
All I can say is how LUCKY Diana is to have been loved by him. He is such an angel. What I would give to just hold his hand like that! haha
I see a lot of validity in your male friend's "perspective." I tend to AGREE that they never did go ALL THE WAY, especially since we all know what Michael was "blessed with" (i'm being serious here). I doubt, that she would've been able to resist HIM afterwards, had they "sealed the deal"..... regardless, of his experience/abilities (at that time). He already came "equipped", which is a BONUS. You can, easily, school an individual who's open to suggestion.
I do, agree on the dangling the carrot theory. But I STILL think that a little more than that, happened. I mean, he had been friends with Tatum, Brooke and even if he had crushes on them, i'm sure, they PALED in comparison to what Diana (embodied to HIM). I think, if anything, "she" was a challenge to HIM. He wanted to "tame" her, while learning a thing or two, in the process.
Initially, I suspect that she did just want to manipulate him. But again, I think that she felt something too and perhaps...felt guilty about it (due to the age difference, etc).
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that OTHERS (ie...Quincy, Katherine, Liz) knew the extent of what was going on and "bribed" Diana, into backing off and/or (letting him down easy- FOR HER OWN SAKE).
It makes sense, considering the MJ & Tatiana thing (for instance). Michael's "people" would've wanted him to stay focused on his MUSIC and, therefore, wouldn't want him to be distracted by.....not only a LOVE INTEREST, but controversy over "one" that they KNEW had great power over him (Diana).
I've wondered if Tracy Ellis Ross (Diana's daughter), is privy to what really went on. She seems quite close to her mother. I'm sure the topic had to have come up, at some point. <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
'Aint NO way he was feelin' her like that, behind some.... "I admire her" SHIT.
But WHY haven't we heard from any of MJ's closest friends?! Diana, Quincy, Liza, LIZ? CHRIS TUCKER!!!I mean COME ON...not ONE of them has made any kind of real statement about how MJ impacted their lives, etc.
Hell...Tiger Woods is STILL "talking." and the media have been ALL UP IN HIS A_S, yet,
The KING of POP seems to have gone under the radar.
I just don't get it.
I've been thinking that, "behind the scenes".... they (MJ & Diana)MADE UP...long time ago! Could've been part of the plan to have made it appear as though they were still estranged. I guarantee that, wherever MJ is....Diana is within arms length reach and/or is a fake "phone call" away). <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
If so, I'm GLAD..and hope that they're diligently making UP for lost time. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
WE NEVER SAW HER AFTER THE MEMORIAL, BURIAL... WE NEVER SAW HE THERE NEITHER... SO:
SHE HAVE TO BE WITH HIM AND HIM WITH HER...
AFTER ALL OF THIS YEARS WE DO NOT KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THEY... SO MAYBE THEY´RE TOGETHER FINALLY!
WHAT SENSE MAKE DIANA GUARDIAN OF THE KIDS IF THEY DON´T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP???
IT´S IMPPOSIBLE THAT MJ LEAVE THIS KIDS WITH DIANA IF THEY ARE NOT TOGETHER OR CLOSER FOR ALL THIS YEARS SINCE THE WILL WAS SIGNED.
HE KNOWS WHAT TO DO! COME ON! THEY HAVE TO BE TOGETHER! I HOPE SO.... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
He was a KNOCKOUT in this era! *drools*
"comparison"
Yup. You STILL got it, baby. ALWAYS WILL!
Lord! Don't he make you wanna do some... "unmentionables" to him? <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
I was just watching the video for Billie Jean and there's a shot of a newspaper where the name 'Billie Jean' appears. I wonder if it was just a coincidence that in Lady Sings the Blues Diana's character gets her stage name (Billie) from a newspaper and the audience is presented with the information in a similar fashion...
<!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
On the LipstickAlley, MJ & DIANA thread (another site),someone mentioned Rebbie's song,CENTIPEDEsong, and how MJ wrote it....with a ton of methaphors in the lyrics.
Your love
Is like a ragin' fire, oh
You're a snake that's on the loose
The strike is your desire
Don't you know in the quiet of the night
Is when the snake is in the crawlin'
And the moon starts to glow then disappear
When the time is really right
Is when the centipede is crawlin'
You'll be crying in the night so many tears
And you're crawlin' like a centipede
it was about a snake..but not the reptilian kind.
The Centipede's "strike" is more like the "stroke". Moon starts to "glow" and disappear (*cough*getsbiggerandthenfindsaHOME*cough*). Crying in the night so many tears is the "moans of PASSION"
**Michael was bragging about the Force and nobody knew.** <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Now, you might say
It was probably a "private" joke to himself, that no one else was suppose to GET. A song that he wrote that he just happened to give to his sister (so as not to rouse any suspicion about his skills in the bedroom...ie Diana <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I see you Mike! "Virgin" my arse. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> <!-- s
More "inside info"...
Eye-opening, huh?
Michael knows damn well he didn't write this about a pet snake!
Sounds like Michael wrote it from.... her point of view, of how things he did "weren't enough" for her.
I bet anything... he asked for that split screen of him and Diana. He did say he controlled editing in his videos (WHICH COULD BE "APPLIED" TO MANY AREAS, IN REGARDS TO THE "HOAX") <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
Another quote...
Bernadette Stanis,(Thelma)from "Good Times", SUMS IT ALL UP...in this interview.
[youtube:318lodyt]
I think she HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
They must've been **coughgettingitINcough** during this time.
He's all CONFIDENT, like...I ain't worried about that hug cause she ain't goin' NOW WHERE. <!-- s
MJs lyrics were telling.
Leave Me Alone"
I Don't Care What You Talkin'
'Bout Baby
I Don't Care What You Say
Don't You Come Walkin'
Beggin' Back Mama
I Don't Care Anyway
Time After Time I Gave You All Of My Money
No Excuses To Make
Ain't No Mountain That I
Can't Climb Baby
All Is Going My Way
Also...in "just good friends".... right after he says doggone lover, he adlibs 'mama', which is more than likely, his a nickname for diana.
It's funny, because Katherine is mother and Diana is "mama".
Now why did I just imagine Michael finding out everything he could about Arne when he found out who he was?
In the video, a peacock pops up when Michael sings the verse about a mountain.(see attachment!)
The Jackson's production company was called Peacock Productions but I don't think that's solely what Michael had in mind in the LMA video or the Dangerous album cover when he used the peacock. The cover is cryptic so it's open to interpretation.
Then there is the peacock which is on his nose. Which reminds me of this.... it was right under your nose...all along. *HINT HINT*
Off topic, but I say that what we're looking for in regards this "hoax" is, somewhere, right in front of our eyes, people! <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
*Paraphrasing*
Speaking of peacocks...this broach appears at the beginning of Moonwalker. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
LOL!! That man was so freaking clever. It's amazing how he continues to impress me....
She was nurturing like Katherine, fun like Janet, and probably a good lover.
A lot of people don't really like Diana but they accept the fact that he loved her. That's basically how I feel. I think the depth of his love for her is fascinating.
your siggy emerald city hotel clip!!! when i noticed it i was like yea the wiz... then MJ walking in "shit just got real" ROTF!!!! I LOVE IT!!! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> <!-- s
Your "digging" amazes me! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> Thanks for sharing all that information. Imagine to be loved like that by Michael, *sigh* what a beautiful dream...
Found these quotes from another MJ board that are coming from a girl whose friend's mother was friends with Diana from the late 1970s to 1990s and then from the woman, herself.
There's so much more....you would be AMAZED!
Though....I, personally believe it's more TRUTH than fiction.
Especially the parts about spending time with her and her kids...watching her interact with them and probably envisioning himself in that setting (within a marriage).
From another fan...
Mike seemed to enjoy expressive euphemisms & metaphors. I wonder how inventive those "special" words & terms were. I find it very interesting that some people won't even comment how words and names came about. Like Karen won't reveal how she got her nickname from Mike....
2000 Watts lyrics
Bass note, treble, stereo control, how low you go
Just enough to make your juices flow
Press play, don’t stop, rotate, too hot
You feel I’m real
I’m everything you need, so tell me what’s the deal
[CHORUS]
2000 Watts, 8 ohms, 200 volts, real strong
Too much of that, fuse blown
Be careful what you say don’t overload
2000 Watts, 8 ohms, 200 volts, real strong
Too much of that, fuse blown
Be careful what you say don’t overload
3D, high speed, feedback, Dolby
Release two or three, when I reach I can go ‘til I hit my peak
Compact steelo, chico, D-Lo, highpost lady
Shorty really wanna be there for me
This is what i found, sounds believable:
VERSE ONE: Bass note, treble, stereo control, how low you go
Just enough to make your juices flow
Press play, don't stop, rotate, too hot
You feel I'm real
I'm everything you need, so tell me what's the deal
Verse one is about the foreplay; 'how low you go, juices flow, press play, ect...'
The beginning of the song is about the beginning of sex.
CHORUS: 2000 Watts, 8 ohms, 200 volts, real strong
Too much of that, fuse blown
Be careful what you say don't overload
2000 Watts, 8 ohms, 200 volts, real strong
Too much of that, fuse blown
Be careful what you say don't overload
The chorus is clearly the main part of the song. 2,000 watts = climax. The use of terms such as 'real strong' and 'fuse blown' are completely overt sexual innuendos.
VERSE TWO: 3D, high speed, feedback, Dolby
Release two or three, when I reach I can go 'til I hit my peak
Compact steelo, chico, D-Lo, highpost lady Shorty really wanna be there for me
This is also obvious; perhaps the most sexually vivid part of the song.
'Release two or three, when I reach I can go 'til I hit my peak' - sex.
7:05 on.... he's speaking to 'mama' (sweating to her too!) <!-- s
[youtube:33ckhi3j]
All that glamourous aura and yet a kind, respectful heart. That's why he fell for HER. Sigh.
I think I would have died from the intrigue, just to have stumbled upon such sweetness in ANY man, ever, in my social circle (the men seemed to have been ALL DONE with that, if they ever were sweet, by the time they appeared before me; <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->).
THAT is NOT <!-- s:mad: -->:mad:<!-- s:mad: --> <!-- s
She had EYES; she HAD to KNOW what a priceless thang was well within her grasp. She also knew, (as women do!) that he had a hot bad crush on her. She had jaded MEN to manipulate and play with. She would NOT do that to my Boy. (OR his older brothers--they were all "family"; duh.)
He gave and gave and gave to her, on songs for her recordings and videos, which only made him fall harder for her beauty and seductive vibe in the WORK . The object of HIS affection, SEEMINGLY playing only to him, using HIS music and lyrics, HAD to be driving him crazy-MAD with undying LOVE, poor little guy! And mostly, in the public eye.
I think she LOVED being seen with him, and LOVED HIM. He was a respectful, fascinating date, whom she didn't have to wrestle with afterwards, to earn her night out.
No baggage, just a good time with a beautiful young hottie, her FRIEND! She knew he was shy, and probably was helping him to "get out" socially. She also was a convenient, UNCOMPLICATED date for him---he didn't have to submit to a mad groping, EITHER, from someone he merely took out to an event (SSSSHEEEESH!).
I think I know she loved his pure heart and innocent soul and wouldn't hurt him or harm THAT friendship, for ANYTHING.
He's said a few times that the romance part was all in his head. Why don't you all BELIEVE him? Why embarrass him?
There's no shame in that.
It only PROVES that his romantic/people instincts were good, in his choice of the object of his devotion---that she WAS a beautiful (and a trustworthy, quality) person inside and out.
He named the girl in the song, "Diana" because he likes the name. Look at his fascination with "Lady Di". Not such a mystery. All the peacock symbolism is just MJ PLAYIN' witcha!!! There are lots of symbols all over all his stuff. Anyway, wouldn't Diana be like a "PeaHEN"? FYI, the cock is the boy...
There's the other thing, too. Michael always gets what Michael goes after, and he ALWAYS goes after what he REALLY wants. He realized THAT was a puppy love. He knew what he wanted and she, somehow, sometimes, was not... quite... IT. Fever aside, and her dating other men, provided the clarity required to step back objectively and break free of her spell (and having learned how to hypnotically ensnare all of us, from the way she made HIM feel..., moved on to put it to some good use, winning the rest of the world and financing his charities). Anyway...
Just curious...He can have any young thing he wants. Why dredge up this old gossip, when there are recent (before June 2009) pictures of him all over the internet, with at least four different YOUNG chicks sitting on his lap? I tried to find this particularly juicy one, I saw before I came here today, but it was mysteriously pulled. <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> I'll keep looking.
I did hear what sounds like MJ on the Glenda tapes. I believe (altho ANYthing can be faked digitally) those could be legitimate, as MJ has a reputation for talking at length on the phone with folk, AND being artlessly honest about things that most men don't admit---even to confidants...just not that sexy transcript of rumored tapes, which <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> conveniently, no one can produce.
I'm certain I READ it somewhere, as well---maybe <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> the MJ/Boteach book? Not particularly about D.R., but, I'll wrack my brain and try to remember exactly where, he said his early "romances" were completely innocent and mostly in his imagination, or theirs, wanting something "different" with someone who either wanted something else, or didn't think of him that way. Yeah, I bet it was the Michael Jackson Tapes book, but I'll flip through it again...
You know, when you've never been in love, interacting with a real person, before, you're NEVER sure, if "this is it", or yeah, they like me, they touch me and let me touch them, but, Is This It?? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
We laugh, and kid around and tease each other. We are relaxed with one another. We kinda-sorta KNOW stuff about each other---not secrets, really, but maybe little-known things about one another, just by virtue of proximity, making the relationship FEEL more intimate than it really is...But HOW do I tell if THIS is it? How do I tell if they are meaning what I mean, when we hold hands, when he kisses me quickly because I'm silly and dear to him --or is he REALLY breaking the ice, hoping I'll kiss him back? and ON and ON...
Until something is DECLARED, and for some reason, there is SUCH a dance about who says it first---especially, if you're shy and not even sure it ISN'T all in your applehead... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> No one wants to be wrong and feel foolish, gosh. It is becoming way TOO important to you, now. This thing CAN'T go wrong...You can FEEL like you're "involved" with someone, without them even being in it AT ALL with you, even to the point that you "just KNOW" they have feelings for you, they are just hesitant to declare...
But...they actually don't. It is ALL your perspective and inexperience, and wishful thinking, COLORING everything they do or say; every look, touch, act of consideration...when all the time they are just being nice to someone they feel safe with(no tension or expectations, because they believe YOU are just being nice and friendly, yourself, as YOU are keeping your true HOT feelings a secret!).
If the other person KNEW that you were misunderstanding their intentions, they would be mindful of all that unconcious touching, stirring you up. A nice person, who did actually LIKE you, wouldn't feed your misery once they knew you had it bad for them.
I really think that's what was going on. Ms. Ross has always been very hands-on, spontaneous, and affectionate. They knew each other well, worked together some, and had alot to talk about. I don't think she knew how deeply he felt, because he was so reserved. [MAN! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> I love that <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> ] How's a neophyte to know the difference between an affectionate squeeze and a HOLY MELTdown <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> , Batman <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->, kind of embrace---when EVERY touch or look that loved one gives you causes lightning to strike when it's all new to you??
I can see it (the insecurity, self-questioning, melting love and angst!!) on his face in alot of pictures, and, it ALL comes back to me, too, every twinge of <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> . I don't think you EVER get over being SO wrong, even though you SEE, "ok, yup, I misread you, whatever, I get it ..."--because it felt so right and true!! Ah, Love...<!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
She might be "hiding" MJ, under that gown. <!-- s
[youtube:xcnfynd6]
http://www.metrolyrics.com/not-over-you-yet-lyrics-diana-ross.html