Ps. Souza, in your "before you disregard, please consider these items," portion at the end, what do you think about including a mention about how the patient in the "last photo of Michael Jackson" appears to be MJ from 1987, not at all how he appeared in TII and certainly nothing like the EMT's description of a frail, old, bald, hospice patient"? I think this is another compelling fact that gets people's attention and would generate further curiosity. I know you can't list everything but I think it's one of the biggest contradictions.
I think the draft is very well noted down. Let's all hope is for the best and help in any way we can. Like Michael said once:
"Together, we can make a change in the world. Together we can help stop racism. Together we can help stop prejudice. We can help the world live without fear. It is our only hope...and without hope we are lost."
I just went and read what Serenity wrote at .net and I'm horrified. I am seriously shocked at the copying and pasting all of Souza's posts over there so they could urge her on like an angry mob in the background.
I knew with 6 pages something controversial was happening! Being more of a peacemaker at heart, I hope that this decision/opportunity will not tear this forum apart yet again. I respect both of you Souza and SD very much, and I hope and pray this can all be worked out in harmony. We all have different personalities, ways of thinking about things or reacting. Souza, I thought your write-up was very good, especially as it shared your personal experience with discovering a possible death hoax, and also that you emphasized that the accusations against Michael were false. Those are the best places to start to bridge the gap for the public. I'm glad you are proceeding with great caution having been burned in the past with magazines, and that the money will be going to charity. It's good that all this is discussed freely before the first writing goes out to them.
I do think that if Michael really wanted more people believing in the hoax, it would be a simple matter of throwing out a few crumbs of stronger evidence that are undeniable. At this point most "evidence" can be taken several ways. He has deliberately designed this hoax to be air-tight. On the other hand, maybe he is putting the responsibility of spreading the faith on the backs of his "army". IDK Perhaps you could tweet to TR or Jermaine to get their reaction.
Souza, your draft is amazing and you hit on some of the most important facts that first made
us all wake up and take notice!
I think it flows very well and is easy to comprehend. WELL DONE!
For whoever is interested, here is the draft for the first article. As you can see in the last part, I would like someone to volunteer to write the next piece. If anyone sees anything in this piece that violates someones copyright, makes us look like nuts or disrespects Michael, let me know.
[center:1yh86i4l]"You and I were never separate. It's just an illusion wrought by the magical lens of perception."
~Michael Jackson~[/center:1yh86i4l]
The world stood still on June 25, 2009. Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, had passed away at the age of 50. Never in my life had I witnessed such an outburst of grief. By dying, Michael Jackson had achieved what no one else had achieved up until then; he had united the world. In every city of the world, people from all races and religions joined hands and cried together as one. As much as I knew how loved Michael Jackson was and still is, I was amazed. At that moment I realized how big of an influence he was worldwide. Little did I realize back then, how big of an influence he would become to me and my perception of life.
I remember visiting my parents when the news broke. CNN told us Michael had suffered from cardiac arrest and was taken to the hospital. According to them he was in a coma and it didn't look good. First thing that popped my head was: what if this is a publicity stunt? The London shows were about to start and after all we were dealing with Michael Jackson. Even though I never considered myself a fan, he seemed to me like someone who would be capable of doing something like that, something that hadn't been done yet. A few moments later my father, who had been following the news on the internet, came down and said he had died. He what? I checked my TV screen to see what I had missed, but nothing. According to CNN he was still in a coma. I asked him where he got that information, and he told me there was a tabloid called TMZ.com who had just published an article that stated that Michael had passed away. Although I didn't think that was strange at first, it did become stranger when it took CNN almost an hour to confirm this. Looking back now my feeling was right, since TMZ had posted the article about his passing 6 minutes before the doctors at UCLA even pronounced him dead.
As days went by and the odd feeling just didn't want to leave my system, I decided to take a seat behind my computer and I googled "Michael Jackson is not dead" and to my surprise I found a forum up and running since June 25th that had already around 300 members who clearly had the same strange feeling that I had. There were a lot of topics I didn't understand back then. I didn't know much about Michael Jackson and I had to study his life more before I could even join the conversations, that much I understood. The first time my head spinned was when someone posted a video of the helicopter flight to the coroner with allegedly Michael's body in it. The topic starter said that the body moved and I spent the rest of the afternoon watching that video to determine if my eyes were playing tricks on me but after watching it a hundred times, I was sure I saw it moving too.
If that would have been the only oddity I had seen post June 25, I would probably not be sitting here, writing this piece but from that moment on it was like being on a rollercoaster. More and more strange stories about Michael hit the news and more and more contradictions were found and posted on the forum, even up until this day. For those who took the effort to take a peak behind the screen it became more and more obvious that Michael Jackson's death was indeed a hoax, but why would he do this? Publicity? Money? Or is there more that needs to be taken into consideration?
I don't think I have to remind anyone about the accusations made against Michael. Back in 1993 the civil case, started by Evan Chandler, the father of the boy Michael allegedly inappropriately touched, was settled out of court. Even though it was not Michael himself who settled, but his insurance company, even though Evan Chandler was taped during a phone converstaion that proved that it was extortion, and even though Michael was never charged with anything dispite the millions of tax dollars spent on a criminal investigation, his image was ruined. The media jumped on the bandwagon and Michael has been labeled as a freak who touches little boys ever since. When Michael was on trial in 2005, 2,200 journalists from all over the world followed his every step. They had condemned him already before the trial even started, and they continued their biased reporting throughout the trial. When Michael was acquitted of all charges on June 13, 2005, they went silent. They took off with their tails between their legs and no one even bothered to pay attention to his innocence, with the effect that even though Michael was found not guilty of any wrong doing, the world still thought he was guilty and got away with it. Had they have been good journalists, they would have reported what happened inside the courtroom. Had they done that, the world would have known he has always been innocent, but now only those who will read an unbiased and factual report of the events, like "Michael Jackson Conspiracy" by Aphrodite Jones, will know for sure.
The above is just an example of what kind of influence the media has, and how they can manipulate the minds of the public. For decades Michael has been portrayed by the media as a freak, a child molester and drug addict. And if they do that to him, who says they wouldn't do that to other celebrities? Or events for that matter, like when CNN fabricated the news during the Gulf War?Just type in "CNN fake news Gulf War" to see what I am talking about.
By staging his death and controlling the media like this, Michael will be able to show the world that you shouldn't believe anything that is presented to you in the media. For decades the media controlled Michael and his image, it seems he has taken over and is pulling the strings from behind the curtain. As he said in an interview with Geraldo back in 2005 when Geraldo asked him about the big plan, what he wanted to do: "There are a lot of surprises. Film, I love film. [...] Well, it's not just so much film, but it's innovating it and pioneering it. Taking the medium to a new place. "
Ever since June 25, 2009, it seems like we have been in a reality film to an extend that is hard to comprehend. Shakespeare once said: "All the world's a stage". I think Michael took that literally and uses his influence to teach the media a lesson and make us aware of the problems in this world. He stood for something very important that has been buried underneath the tabloid trash: LOVE. Love for mother earth, love for humanity, love for animals, love for everything that exists. The kind of love that was forced to take a backseat and seem to have been replaced by lust, greed, hunger for money and power and dishonesty.
Our forum is one out of many forums where people share their ideas, their theories and the extremely odd and inconsistent information that has been presented in the media. Not just by the tabloids, but by the so called 'trustworthy' media as well. Even though none of us know exactly what happened and we do not agree with each other on every aspect of the hoax, we all have the same goal in mind, which is finding out the truth, clearing his name and supporting him in whatever he is planning to do. We appreciate it that Wonderwall Magazine is willing to give us a platform outside of the forum where we can share our thoughts and research about the obviously strange and discordant events of June 25th and beyond.
Before dismissing any of the above, please take the following into consideration:
According to the death certificate Michael Joseph Jackson passed away. According to the 2003-2005 court papers his legal name is Michael Joe Jackson. On one's death certificate the legal name must be stated.
No doctor ever made a statement on his death, the one making the statement on June 25 was Michael's brother Jermaine.
Michael hired lots of actors before his death, none of them is allowed to speak to this day, because every one of them had to sign a confidentiality agreement.
At the memorial, Jermaine performed 'Smile' and mixed up some words, without even blinking. Instead of "light up your face with gladness, hide every trace of sadness" he sang "light up your face with sadness, hide every trace of gladness".
Even though Michael won more Grammys in his life than anyone, they failed to mention him in the "In Memoriam" list ... twice!
TMZ reported on his death 6 minutes before he was even declared dead.
The autopsy report is full of inconsistencies and misses some important features of Michael. Besides that an autopsy report shouldn't even be released to the public while there is a criminal investigation going on.
I could go on and on, but I will stop right here and let you think about the idea. Much more information is collected on the forum, from just clues and theories to actual facts and errors that were published about his death. This article has the sole purpose to let you open up your mind about the idea and start questioning the strange circumstances surrounding the alleged death of Michael Jackson.
In the upcoming issues we will explain more in detail why we believe Michael is still alive. I would like to pass the pen to [username] who will bring more light to the oddities surrounding [subject]. Until then, you are most welcome to visit the website and join us in the discussions. And remember: It's all for L.O.V.E.!
Very good resume to start with, with your personal touch of the story, which I can identify myself with in some parts.
Hey Souza!
While I am still on the fence about all this, and sad to read the threads here.....I would like to lend my help with some minor typo things I see in your well written article.......don't mean to offend etc....but, I did catch a few things you may want to take a look at (totally your call). I put them in bold print above...here is the run-down for you to see:
spinned- should be spun
rollercoaster- should be roller-coaster or
roller coaster
converstaion- should be conversation
dispite- should be despite
extend- should be extent
A couple of grammar/punctuation things:
"we appreciate it that"-perhaps leave out "it" (not really needed in the sentence)
"besides that"- needs a comma after that "besides that," or just "besides,"
"is" - should be, "are" ...none of them are allowed....
Please, please, please know I am not nit-picking or trying to offend etc.....I just have a background in writing and want you to look professional. Wonderwall had a typo or two as well....makes me wonder about them. I would be very careful mentioning Aphrodite Jones or CNN. Especially, mentioning CNN....you do not want them breathing down your neck.
Anyways....it's all very interesting. I hope it pans out to have been a good thing. I guess we will only know in hindsight!
Blessings to you and everyone here on forum.....I pray this will not come between members. I am afraid, however, it already has <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> I will keep you all in my thoughts and prayers for this journey.
Blessings Always!
Thanks, I have a Dutch version of Word and it won't do a spell check on English writings, so it's appreciated. I fixed the errors, but I can't find the last one: "is" - should be, "are" ...none of them are allowed.... Can you tell me where to look?
It has never been my intention to divide members with this, but if I do not tell before hand, it's not appreciated either. The last option is to go against what I believe can be a good step and not send an article in at all. That is just not in my charachter. If people feel the urge to attack me on this and spread lies on other forums, so be it. I am used to that by now. This could be a good oppertunity for us to get the word out. I am as skeptical as anyone, don't believe for a second that I trust any media outlet, but I think we can give this magazine the benefit of the doubt. If they screw up, so be it. There is no danger for Mike in it, since we simply don't know where he is and we send him nothing what hasn't been posted on here for everyone te read already. Worst case scenario they think we're nuts. They think so anyway until the truth comes out so that is something I won't lose sleep over. We are here to support Mike and to spread love, make people see what we see so why keep that to ourselves? I think Mike tried to get this out many times himself with the Alive-articles on TMZ, Teddy Riley screaming he's a live etc. So I don't see a problem in telling people my beliefs, I do that in real life as well, this is nothing different other than that it hopefully will reach more people at once.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Let's just go for it. Like Souza says there's nothing that isn't here anyway for anyone to see. What's the worst that could happen? Non-believers will think we're nuts. Well they do anyway. We could be made a laughing stock? Don't see how considering we're not putting anything controversial in this article. The worst that could happen is we get more trolls coming here and making fun of us, the positives must outweigh that, if more people start to "get it" or at least question more. We still don't know if MJ even realised it would take THIS long for people to wake up, no matter how conditioned by the media they are, so maybe he wants to get the message heard by more people and for the ripple effect to start. We've got voices, we might as well use them!
Souza said:
"Thanks, I have a Dutch version of Word and it won't do a spell check on English writings, so it's appreciated. I fixed the errors, but I can't find the last one: "is" - should be, "are" ...none of them are allowed.... Can you tell me where to look?"
This paragraph:
"Michael hired lots of actors before his death, none of them is allowed to speak to this day, because every one of them had to sign a confidentiality agreement."
Souza said:
"It has never been my intention to divide members with this, but if I do not tell before hand, it's not appreciated either. The last option is to go against what I believe can be a good step and not send an article in at all. That is just not in my character. If people feel the urge to attack me on this and spread lies on other forums, so be it. I am used to that by now. This could be a good opportunity for us to get the word out. I am as skeptical as anyone, don't believe for a second that I trust any media outlet, but I think we can give this magazine the benefit of the doubt. If they screw up, so be it. There is no danger for Mike in it, since we simply don't know where he is and we send him nothing what hasn't been posted on here for everyone to read already. Worst case scenario they think we're nuts. They think so anyway until the truth comes out so that is something I won't lose sleep over. We are here to support Mike and to spread love, make people see what we see so why keep that to ourselves? I think Mike tried to get this out many times himself with the Alive-articles on TMZ, Teddy Riley screaming he's a live etc. So I don't see a problem in telling people my beliefs, I do that in real life as well, this is nothing different other than that it hopefully will reach more people at once."
Thank you for this response.....it's sad that it's come to a division of beliefs. I know you will do your best to represent the truth. It was only a matter of time our beLIEfs would be put to the test. I see this as a baby step. If they are legit, and if it gets noticed by other larger publications....we are off to the races. It will just take one major player in the media to notice (in a serious way). They all want to be the first...hummmmmm....wonder who will, "notice" first, and have the first scoop. I imagine TMZ would report Michael's alive 6 minutes before you tell them, lol! What a ride this is!!!
Thanks again.........
Nice article Souza. I like the personal touch. I guess it would be the magazine's job to write a disclaimer saying this in no way reflects the beliefs of Michael Jackson or anyone from his camp. Even though it is in the conspiracy section of the magazine so I don't know if it's needed. Just thinking out loud here. Anyway, great start. I can't wait to see what's next. And you can use whatever findings from me. I really don't care. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
and...you may think this far fetched.. but how do we KNOW Michael isn't behind this too? Not many can say the can have updates on where he is monthly...clue? Michael has dealt with magazines to get out info since a child with passing out mags for JW's...maybe he wanted his own publication (media) to get his message out where he has the final view before publication. Just a thought <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> The timing makes me think too...
and...you may think this far fetched.. but how do we KNOW Michael isn't behind this too? Not many can say the can have updates on where he is monthly...clue? Michael has dealt with magazines to get out info since a child with passing out mags for JW's...maybe he wanted his own publication (media) to get his message out where he has the final view before publication. Just a thought <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> The timing makes me think too...
Good point. You never know... I was thinking how similar this magazine is to George magazine which was redirected on TIAI earlier. It could just be a coincidence but do we even believe in coincidences at this point? <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I don't understand why members are getting angry over this..
What is the difference of the information being on a forum, or in a magazine??
THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE. THIS IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE HOAX!
The kind of people who read this magazine, will be a different crowd anyway....they might
be VERY ACCEPTING of our findings and even sign up at the forum!
But seriously folks, why is this SUCH a huge deal??? By this time, people HAVE to be aware that
some of Michael's fans think he is alive. The spot in the magazine will just explain why.
People are getting WAY too bent out of shape over this! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
and...you may think this far fetched.. but how do we KNOW Michael isn't behind this too? Not many can say the can have updates on where he is monthly...clue? Michael has dealt with magazines to get out info since a child with passing out mags for JW's...maybe he wanted his own publication (media) to get his message out where he has the final view before publication. Just a thought <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> The timing makes me think too...
Good point. You never know... I was thinking how similar this magazine is to George magazine which was redirected on TIAI earlier. It could just be a coincidence but do we even believe in coincidences at this point? <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I was thinking the same things....and let's see what gematria matches are for Wonderwall:
127= Wonderwall = Moonwalker
I have to laugh at this point....I know you guys are not into the whole gematria stuff, but really? Moonwalker as a match to a new magazine that wants to feature articles about the hoax? Don't forget the tag-line on WonderWall: Believe in Everything
*for newer folks here....gematria is a simple way to give a numeric value to letters a=1, b=2 etc
here is the link to a post I did long time ago:
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=253&t=10681&hilit=+coincidences<!-- l -->
Anyways....seems like we think alike at times! Shocked I am! LOL!
Have a wonderful day!
Blessings Always!
Ps. Souza, in your "before you disregard, please consider these items," portion at the end, what do you think about including a mention about how the patient in the "last photo of Michael Jackson" appears to be MJ from 1987, not at all how he appeared in TII and certainly nothing like the EMT's description of a frail, old, bald, hospice patient"? I think this is another compelling fact that gets people's attention and would generate further curiosity. I know you can't list everything but I think it's one of the biggest contradictions.
Agree with Bec. Souza maybe you can add somethings about the 911 call and how the ambulance was going out backwards and the ambulance picture. What do you think? I would love to write an article but I don't think I can make sentences like yours with the language barrier I have. Amazing job once more. I couldn't do it any better and great you didn't include anything about NWO or numerology. God bless you girl.
P.S: I wonder what TS thinks about this issue. Souza did you receive any PM about this from TS?
I do not agree with Souza doing this without consultation with other forum administrators and members. If we do not agree as a whole on this, division is created and Michael's message is about unity and bringing us together. Souza has not been elected as our spokesperson and does not speak for Michael, me or anyone else. Souza turned my post original post around with a rude response and calling me judgmental when I was disagreeing with her, pointing out things "we" should consider, and possible outcomes of taking this action. There is no "love" in her posts to myself and others, who disagree with her actions. There is disrespect, rudeness, cruelty , and dismissal, and many members continue to ignore this behaviour and attitude which I find very upsetting.
Souza's posted a draft of her first article in the thread; you must realize that the entire time she was arguing with me, she had already created that article. In other words, she was never asking for anyone's opinion on any proposed articles at all...this was straight up manipulation. She had already decided what she was doing and had actually already written the first article for the Wonderwall Magazine.
I don't care if some members believe that the article is well written (not all members do though but I will not name names) or any of the other accolades some forum members are bestowing on her; she has lied, manipulated and deceived us all once again. Members of this forum are afraid to speak their mind honestly, as they have witnessed the abuse that occurs, if you don't agree with Souza or the group; the ridicule, ganging up, dismissal, rudeness etc and then eventual banning or being told to leave. This isn't "thinking for yourself" this is being bullied and dictated to. Leaving the forum means no longer being a member of the community and feeling alone and excluded when so many others don't believe Michael is alive. This is not right nor just.
Souza has admitted to other deceptions/manipulations and just because you admit to that doesn't excuse it. She has made at least one fake account on the forum to play with people and "show how easily they believe in fakes", she was aware of at least one other fake accounts made by a member on twitter and with her blessing, she received information from an anonymous informer, who directed her research and beliefs which she then shoves down all of our throats as the only truth, whether we agree with her or not. All of this does reflect on someone's character and many of those who have written about their experiences with Souza, are being labelled as at fault. When the fault actually lies with the person in the centre of all this discord, Souza herself.
Many members have left or been banned from the site, there is something wrong here. When are we going to say enough is enough and be tolerant of others views, treating each other with respect, caring and understanding? When are we going to stand up to any authoritarian figure, when their behaviour is not acceptable and when are we going to stop being afraid of anyone and back up those who are thinking for themselves? This forum is a reflection of a larger world view and where is the love really because I can't see it anymore. It's just hollow words written on a screen and actions are speaking much louder. We are failing Michael, each other, and ourselves.
Wonderwall Magazine
Registrant: Ben Martin
1030 Salem St.
Vista, California 92084
United States
Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (<!-- m -->http://www.godaddy.com<!-- m -->)
Domain Name: WONDERWALLMAGAZINE.COM Created on: 04-Nov-10
Expires on: 04-Nov-12
Last Updated on: 14-Dec-10
Yesterday Magazine
Registrant:
Yesterday Magazine
1030 Salem St.
Vista, California 92084
United States
Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (<!-- m -->http://www.godaddy.com<!-- m -->)
Domain Name: YESTERDAYMAG.COM Created on: 29-Jun-08
Expires on: 29-Jun-11
Last Updated on: 13-May-09
Administrative Contact: Martin, Ben <!-- e -->nicopensrs@softcomca.com<!-- e -->
310-10 Bay St.
Toronto, Ontario M5J2R8
Canada
+1.4169577400 Fax -- +1.4169577401
Yesterday Magazine
Basic Information
About - JOIN THE REVOLUTION!
Personal information: Yesterday Magazine is dedicated to the authenticity of local musicians, interesting people and important issues in our world. It is a collection of writing from eclectic characters who interview performers, unearth rare finds, and showcase musical genius.
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Likes: Wonderwall Magazine, "Mom, mom, mommy, ma, mom, mom, ma, ma, mommy, mommy... WHAT!!... hi!, Alex Jones, David Icke, Get Back Loretta
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General information: Wonderwall Magazine formed in 2010 with dreams to reach people accross the globe. With over 13 sections of the magazine, we hope to attract a broad breed of readers. There's music, glam, history, technology, travel, conspiracies, interviews and the list goes on.
Description: A magazine with the perfect mix. Something John Lennon would take on his plane ride to the U.S.S.R.
Pretty much to sum up this magazine and my feelings on all of this.
Wonderwall has no issues yet. The owner has another magazine in which he features local bands which has 2 issues. This magazine has no real following and is published only locally in San Diego, California and online. Last I checked there were only 9 people falling the "Wonderwall" facebook page.
Souza is submitting an article to an unproven, magazine that has no readership, without the full blessings of the community she is purporting to represent. She has said that if the magazine pays her for the articles, she will donate that to charity. This is an attempt at presenting a "selling point" to the forum members. But being a magazine, the goal is to make money, this is done through advertisements within the magazine. Advertisers may be very cautious to even buy space in a magazine that has a conspiracy theory section and the magazine would only give Souza a small remuneration, if anything for the articles.
This magazine has not proven itself as responsible nor even appealing to any kind of readership...they have no published editions. If you visit the Wonderwall Magazine website you will that the articles and site are not complete and there are no comments on any of the articles posted there. Souza has just received a series of emails from Ben Martin or one of his friends or something. She has run with the idea and in my opinion without adequate reserach or consideration. At this point, this magazine is no different than a sort of blog or a very small local magazine. Part of the reason for possibly even including a series on Michael Jackson, in the Magazine, could be as a marketing tool but who knows how successful that would be with such a small market.
At best, this will be completely pointless and no one will notice it at all, At worst, she risks doing more damage to Michael, the hoax and the community, if a larger media outlet picks up the story and twists it as The Sun did with her previous interview.
Let's hope that it falls somewhere in the middle and it isn't all for nothing...
I think the article states Souza's thoughts and opinions just fine (minus the spelling, grammar errors, etc.). However, I think to start listing some of the theories right at the beginning could be scaled back, concentrate perhaps on one event that was suspicious and then leave it to the reader wanting to find out more. You need to entice the reader (like reading a mystery novel).
I also found the part of Michael's trial section just a little too revealing and could be cut back. I do not believe it needs to be reiterated that he allegedly touched young boys. Everyone knows why he was on this "bogus" trial and to bring it back to their minds is a little unsettling for me. JMO
However, I do think that because everyone has their own theories about what happened and more importantly WHY he did this, I think it is important that a disclaimer be put at the end of every article advising the reader that:
"the opinions and theories expressed in this article are solely the author's interpretation of the events surrounding Michael's "passing" and does not in any way reflect the MJDH membership's opinions and views as a whole"... or something to effect. This way it keeps everyone happy. You have to realize there are new members on here as well that have come here to investigate or read and comment here and there and may not know everything that is on this forum and also may not believe all theories. JMO
Souza already said she wasn't going to ask our permission to do this, I don't see how it was done in an underhanded way. She was asking for our opinions on her decision as far as I can see. I can understand your position Serenity as I have in the past spoken out myself about certain issues and the danger of an "in crowd" mentality however I'm still here in spite of it. Divisive issues like this will always come up, however in this case I don't get what the big deal is. The media when they choose to speak to the members of this site have to speak to a single person, and as the administrator (maybe now the only admin if Mo has decided to quit), it's obvious that Souza is the person they speak to. As pointed out she has not been elected spokesperson but she is the mouthpiece for the forum because she's the admin. Common sense really.
Whatever is in the article is already here for all to see anyway, this seems to be another "Souza wants all the glory" problem, just as Mo said in her posts. Turning the whole thing into a competition for credit and authority. Unfortunately these issues detract from our goal here and come off like a case of sour grapes. Ego and personality clashes are bound to happen but they're destructive. As long as Souza informs us what she's writing and doesn't make us all look nuts then I don't think we have to worry about her going power crazy and trying to invade a small country. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I do agree with you that there must have been a voting between the members if we are going to write an article to the this magazine or not. The decision should be belong to all of us, not only Souza. Because Souza is not going to write in the magazine but also we are too. And we are all going to write about what we all talked and shared during the past 19 months on this forum. So, "my ideas only" is actually something we all know and was shared on the forum. If I was the admin I would definitely ask for the members' permission. But I'm not and I do not have a right to tell her what to do. And I must say that I was so so scared if what she was going to write was going to be about NWO and I thought it could ruin Michael's plans and could put his life in danger BUT the article she wrote is very well stated without getting into numerology and the NWO issue. I do not think that this could ruin the hoax or Michael's plan because like Souza said, this information is all over the internet, on the hoax forums and hundereds of hoax videos. If this magazine has no readers yet, that's ok. Nobody reads it, so what do we lose? Nothing. If some people read it and think that we're nuts, who cares? They already think we're crazy. So bringing the hoax to another medium would not harm Michael or his plans in my opinion. I do understand you SD, as I do agree at some points with you and I agree at some points with Souza. If Michael didn't want anyone to learn about the hoax, he wouldn't leave any clues behind. So I think it's ok to spread the truth about his "death".
I have a question? I know our little "forum" is not a secret, however I thought the main point to this was to really try to find the truth of what happened to Michael. So my question is, why is it so important that more people jump on our bandwagon. It just doesn't make sense to me to try and convince other people by exposing what we have uncovered. Who cares? For what purpose? We want to know if Michael is ok, don't we? or do we care how many people we can convert? People are free to find us, why do we need to advertize in the same media that Michael hated. And lets just imagine for just one moment that Michael doesn't want to be found, what will this do to him? harms way? Could be.......
Please clarify the statement below since I am trying to understand why it keeps popping up within your comments. "I do not agree with Souza doing this without consultation with other forum administrators and members."
People joined these forums by choice and to make independent contributions to the threads. They were not recruited into a member-based organization. Nothing has been discussed to recommend that these forums become an organized entity i.e. fan club. Therefore, I am not fully understanding why there must be a consensus on what is discussed on or off of the forums. If this group or any of the others were structured organizations with chapters, officers, dues etc then your suggestion for a consultation would be valid and expected. Please share why you think that individuals among the forums should have a consultation before speaking openly about theories regarding MJ.
I do not agree with Souza doing this without consultation with other forum administrators and members. If we do not agree as a whole on this, division is created and Michael's message is about unity and bringing us together. Souza has not been elected as our spokesperson and does not speak for Michael, me or anyone else. Souza turned my post original post around with a rude response and calling me judgmental when I was disagreeing with her, pointing out things "we" should consider, and possible outcomes of taking this action. There is no "love" in her posts to myself and others, who disagree with her actions. There is disrespect, rudeness, cruelty , and dismissal, and many members continue to ignore this behaviour and attitude which I find very upsetting.
Souza's posted a draft of her first article in the thread; you must realize that the entire time she was arguing with me, she had already created that article. In other words, she was never asking for anyone's opinion on any proposed articles at all...this was straight up manipulation. She had already decided what she was doing and had actually already written the first article for the Wonderwall Magazine.
I don't care if some members believe that the article is well written (not all members do though but I will not name names) or any of the other accolades some forum members are bestowing on her; she has lied, manipulated and deceived us all once again. Members of this forum are afraid to speak their mind honestly, as they have witnessed the abuse that occurs, if you don't agree with Souza or the group; the ridicule, ganging up, dismissal, rudeness etc and then eventual banning or being told to leave. This isn't "thinking for yourself" this is being bullied and dictated to. Leaving the forum means no longer being a member of the community and feeling alone and excluded when so many others don't believe Michael is alive. This is not right nor just.
Souza has admitted to other deceptions/manipulations and just because you admit to that doesn't excuse it. She has made at least one fake account on the forum to play with people and "show how easily they believe in fakes", she was aware of at least one other fake accounts made by a member on twitter and with her blessing, she received information from an anonymous informer, who directed her research and beliefs which she then shoves down all of our throats as the only truth, whether we agree with her or not. All of this does reflect on someone's character and many of those who have written about their experiences with Souza, are being labelled as at fault. When the fault actually lies with the person in the centre of all this discord, Souza herself.
Many members have left or been banned from the site, there is something wrong here. When are we going to say enough is enough and be tolerant of others views, treating each other with respect, caring and understanding? When are we going to stand up to any authoritarian figure, when their behaviour is not acceptable and when are we going to stop being afraid of anyone and back up those who are thinking for themselves? This forum is a reflection of a larger world view and where is the love really because I can't see it anymore. It's just hollow words written on a screen and actions are speaking much louder. We are failing Michael, each other, and ourselves.
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"Together, we can make a change in the world. Together we can help stop racism. Together we can help stop prejudice. We can help the world live without fear. It is our only hope...and without hope we are lost."
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Serenity you should be ashamed of yourself!
I do think that if Michael really wanted more people believing in the hoax, it would be a simple matter of throwing out a few crumbs of stronger evidence that are undeniable. At this point most "evidence" can be taken several ways. He has deliberately designed this hoax to be air-tight. On the other hand, maybe he is putting the responsibility of spreading the faith on the backs of his "army". IDK Perhaps you could tweet to TR or Jermaine to get their reaction.
us all wake up and take notice!
I think it flows very well and is easy to comprehend. WELL DONE!
Very good resume to start with, with your personal touch of the story, which I can identify myself with in some parts.
I am 100% Ok with this presentation.
Thanks, I have a Dutch version of Word and it won't do a spell check on English writings, so it's appreciated. I fixed the errors, but I can't find the last one: "is" - should be, "are" ...none of them are allowed.... Can you tell me where to look?
It has never been my intention to divide members with this, but if I do not tell before hand, it's not appreciated either. The last option is to go against what I believe can be a good step and not send an article in at all. That is just not in my charachter. If people feel the urge to attack me on this and spread lies on other forums, so be it. I am used to that by now. This could be a good oppertunity for us to get the word out. I am as skeptical as anyone, don't believe for a second that I trust any media outlet, but I think we can give this magazine the benefit of the doubt. If they screw up, so be it. There is no danger for Mike in it, since we simply don't know where he is and we send him nothing what hasn't been posted on here for everyone te read already. Worst case scenario they think we're nuts. They think so anyway until the truth comes out so that is something I won't lose sleep over. We are here to support Mike and to spread love, make people see what we see so why keep that to ourselves? I think Mike tried to get this out many times himself with the Alive-articles on TMZ, Teddy Riley screaming he's a live etc. So I don't see a problem in telling people my beliefs, I do that in real life as well, this is nothing different other than that it hopefully will reach more people at once.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""Thanks, I have a Dutch version of Word and it won't do a spell check on English writings, so it's appreciated. I fixed the errors, but I can't find the last one: "is" - should be, "are" ...none of them are allowed.... Can you tell me where to look?"
This paragraph:
"Michael hired lots of actors before his death, none of them is allowed to speak to this day, because every one of them had to sign a confidentiality agreement."
Souza said:
"It has never been my intention to divide members with this, but if I do not tell before hand, it's not appreciated either. The last option is to go against what I believe can be a good step and not send an article in at all. That is just not in my character. If people feel the urge to attack me on this and spread lies on other forums, so be it. I am used to that by now. This could be a good opportunity for us to get the word out. I am as skeptical as anyone, don't believe for a second that I trust any media outlet, but I think we can give this magazine the benefit of the doubt. If they screw up, so be it. There is no danger for Mike in it, since we simply don't know where he is and we send him nothing what hasn't been posted on here for everyone to read already. Worst case scenario they think we're nuts. They think so anyway until the truth comes out so that is something I won't lose sleep over. We are here to support Mike and to spread love, make people see what we see so why keep that to ourselves? I think Mike tried to get this out many times himself with the Alive-articles on TMZ, Teddy Riley screaming he's a live etc. So I don't see a problem in telling people my beliefs, I do that in real life as well, this is nothing different other than that it hopefully will reach more people at once."
Thank you for this response.....it's sad that it's come to a division of beliefs. I know you will do your best to represent the truth. It was only a matter of time our beLIEfs would be put to the test. I see this as a baby step. If they are legit, and if it gets noticed by other larger publications....we are off to the races. It will just take one major player in the media to notice (in a serious way). They all want to be the first...hummmmmm....wonder who will, "notice" first, and have the first scoop. I imagine TMZ would report Michael's alive 6 minutes before you tell them, lol! What a ride this is!!!
Thanks again.........
Blessings to you all!
Good point. You never know... I was thinking how similar this magazine is to George magazine which was redirected on TIAI earlier. It could just be a coincidence but do we even believe in coincidences at this point? <!-- s
What is the difference of the information being on a forum, or in a magazine??
THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE. THIS IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE HOAX!
The kind of people who read this magazine, will be a different crowd anyway....they might
be VERY ACCEPTING of our findings and even sign up at the forum!
But seriously folks, why is this SUCH a huge deal??? By this time, people HAVE to be aware that
some of Michael's fans think he is alive. The spot in the magazine will just explain why.
People are getting WAY too bent out of shape over this! <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I was thinking the same things....and let's see what gematria matches are for Wonderwall:
127= Wonderwall = Moonwalker
I have to laugh at this point....I know you guys are not into the whole gematria stuff, but really? Moonwalker as a match to a new magazine that wants to feature articles about the hoax? Don't forget the tag-line on WonderWall: Believe in Everything
*for newer folks here....gematria is a simple way to give a numeric value to letters a=1, b=2 etc
here is the link to a post I did long time ago:
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=253&t=10681&hilit=+coincidences<!-- l -->
Anyways....seems like we think alike at times! Shocked I am! LOL!
Have a wonderful day!
Blessings Always!
Agree with Bec. Souza maybe you can add somethings about the 911 call and how the ambulance was going out backwards and the ambulance picture. What do you think? I would love to write an article but I don't think I can make sentences like yours with the language barrier I have. Amazing job once more. I couldn't do it any better and great you didn't include anything about NWO or numerology. God bless you girl.
P.S: I wonder what TS thinks about this issue. Souza did you receive any PM about this from TS?
Souza's posted a draft of her first article in the thread; you must realize that the entire time she was arguing with me, she had already created that article. In other words, she was never asking for anyone's opinion on any proposed articles at all...this was straight up manipulation. She had already decided what she was doing and had actually already written the first article for the Wonderwall Magazine.
I don't care if some members believe that the article is well written (not all members do though but I will not name names) or any of the other accolades some forum members are bestowing on her; she has lied, manipulated and deceived us all once again. Members of this forum are afraid to speak their mind honestly, as they have witnessed the abuse that occurs, if you don't agree with Souza or the group; the ridicule, ganging up, dismissal, rudeness etc and then eventual banning or being told to leave. This isn't "thinking for yourself" this is being bullied and dictated to. Leaving the forum means no longer being a member of the community and feeling alone and excluded when so many others don't believe Michael is alive. This is not right nor just.
Souza has admitted to other deceptions/manipulations and just because you admit to that doesn't excuse it. She has made at least one fake account on the forum to play with people and "show how easily they believe in fakes", she was aware of at least one other fake accounts made by a member on twitter and with her blessing, she received information from an anonymous informer, who directed her research and beliefs which she then shoves down all of our throats as the only truth, whether we agree with her or not. All of this does reflect on someone's character and many of those who have written about their experiences with Souza, are being labelled as at fault. When the fault actually lies with the person in the centre of all this discord, Souza herself.
Many members have left or been banned from the site, there is something wrong here. When are we going to say enough is enough and be tolerant of others views, treating each other with respect, caring and understanding? When are we going to stand up to any authoritarian figure, when their behaviour is not acceptable and when are we going to stop being afraid of anyone and back up those who are thinking for themselves? This forum is a reflection of a larger world view and where is the love really because I can't see it anymore. It's just hollow words written on a screen and actions are speaking much louder. We are failing Michael, each other, and ourselves.
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Wonderwall has no issues yet. The owner has another magazine in which he features local bands which has 2 issues. This magazine has no real following and is published only locally in San Diego, California and online. Last I checked there were only 9 people falling the "Wonderwall" facebook page.
Souza is submitting an article to an unproven, magazine that has no readership, without the full blessings of the community she is purporting to represent. She has said that if the magazine pays her for the articles, she will donate that to charity. This is an attempt at presenting a "selling point" to the forum members. But being a magazine, the goal is to make money, this is done through advertisements within the magazine. Advertisers may be very cautious to even buy space in a magazine that has a conspiracy theory section and the magazine would only give Souza a small remuneration, if anything for the articles.
This magazine has not proven itself as responsible nor even appealing to any kind of readership...they have no published editions. If you visit the Wonderwall Magazine website you will that the articles and site are not complete and there are no comments on any of the articles posted there. Souza has just received a series of emails from Ben Martin or one of his friends or something. She has run with the idea and in my opinion without adequate reserach or consideration. At this point, this magazine is no different than a sort of blog or a very small local magazine. Part of the reason for possibly even including a series on Michael Jackson, in the Magazine, could be as a marketing tool but who knows how successful that would be with such a small market.
At best, this will be completely pointless and no one will notice it at all, At worst, she risks doing more damage to Michael, the hoax and the community, if a larger media outlet picks up the story and twists it as The Sun did with her previous interview.
Let's hope that it falls somewhere in the middle and it isn't all for nothing...
I also found the part of Michael's trial section just a little too revealing and could be cut back. I do not believe it needs to be reiterated that he allegedly touched young boys. Everyone knows why he was on this "bogus" trial and to bring it back to their minds is a little unsettling for me. JMO
However, I do think that because everyone has their own theories about what happened and more importantly WHY he did this, I think it is important that a disclaimer be put at the end of every article advising the reader that:
"the opinions and theories expressed in this article are solely the author's interpretation of the events surrounding Michael's "passing" and does not in any way reflect the MJDH membership's opinions and views as a whole"... or something to effect. This way it keeps everyone happy. You have to realize there are new members on here as well that have come here to investigate or read and comment here and there and may not know everything that is on this forum and also may not believe all theories. JMO
Whatever is in the article is already here for all to see anyway, this seems to be another "Souza wants all the glory" problem, just as Mo said in her posts. Turning the whole thing into a competition for credit and authority. Unfortunately these issues detract from our goal here and come off like a case of sour grapes. Ego and personality clashes are bound to happen but they're destructive. As long as Souza informs us what she's writing and doesn't make us all look nuts then I don't think we have to worry about her going power crazy and trying to invade a small country. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
I do agree with you that there must have been a voting between the members if we are going to write an article to the this magazine or not. The decision should be belong to all of us, not only Souza. Because Souza is not going to write in the magazine but also we are too. And we are all going to write about what we all talked and shared during the past 19 months on this forum. So, "my ideas only" is actually something we all know and was shared on the forum. If I was the admin I would definitely ask for the members' permission. But I'm not and I do not have a right to tell her what to do. And I must say that I was so so scared if what she was going to write was going to be about NWO and I thought it could ruin Michael's plans and could put his life in danger BUT the article she wrote is very well stated without getting into numerology and the NWO issue. I do not think that this could ruin the hoax or Michael's plan because like Souza said, this information is all over the internet, on the hoax forums and hundereds of hoax videos. If this magazine has no readers yet, that's ok. Nobody reads it, so what do we lose? Nothing. If some people read it and think that we're nuts, who cares? They already think we're crazy. So bringing the hoax to another medium would not harm Michael or his plans in my opinion. I do understand you SD, as I do agree at some points with you and I agree at some points with Souza. If Michael didn't want anyone to learn about the hoax, he wouldn't leave any clues behind. So I think it's ok to spread the truth about his "death".
Yep - my feelings exactly.
"I do not agree with Souza doing this without consultation with other forum administrators and members."
People joined these forums by choice and to make independent contributions to the threads. They were not recruited into a member-based organization. Nothing has been discussed to recommend that these forums become an organized entity i.e. fan club. Therefore, I am not fully understanding why there must be a consensus on what is discussed on or off of the forums. If this group or any of the others were structured organizations with chapters, officers, dues etc then your suggestion for a consultation would be valid and expected. Please share why you think that individuals among the forums should have a consultation before speaking openly about theories regarding MJ.