Let's not forget that it was Souza who was contacted by the wonderwall guy, not the other way around. So it should be her choice whether she wants to contribute to the magazine - and she only offered to write the first article then pass it on to whoever wants to follow up. This wonderwall guy obviously chose this forum for a reason (it's the best one <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> ) and contacting Souza seems like the logical choice since she's the admin.
I'm quite astonished at how this whole thing escalated the way it did.
I am very very sad about this. <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> , but I know as a leader you have to make hard calls and decisions, and allowing members to attack the leader undermines the very existence of this forum.
After I read your post, I wanted to make a comment. I know that you're sad but something you wrote came to my attention. You wrote that there is a leader and members on the forum. I wouldn't like to name Souza as a leader. She is the admin of the forum but also a member of this community. I do not see anyone as a leader. Every each of us are equal on this forum no matter what our status is. Just wanted to state my opinion about this. And big MJ HUGS for you if you're still feeling sad. xox
Thanks to you and all4loveandbelieve. We probably all need a group hug! Every time these eruptions happen and members go, it is upsetting. I guess it's just all human nature, and the challenges of structure and organization. Sorry for not using the correct word, admin rather than leader. In my mind they're pretty much the same. I've worked with Pastors, directors, coordinators, bosses, supervisers, and I guess I've always just lumped them all into leadership, which to me is a generic word. Everywhere in life there is always chain of command, it's a necessity, or things fall into disarray. Yes I agree we're all equal as people and investigators of the hoax.
If, as SD suggests, this magazine is a go-nowhere enterprise then I guess in the end it will be much ado about nothing. I'm kinda middle-of-the-fence on this one. I don't damn Souza for doing it. Likewise, I don't damn those who oppose it. As with almost every discussion on this forum, there are multiple points of view.
That's it SD, I am sick and tired of your negativity, lies and arrogance on this forum. I am not spending hours a day on this to get stabbed in the back by members like you. You are out. Seems like they totally agree with you on .net, so I guess you should resume posting there.
I disagree with SD being told "you are out." Feel free to think otherwise, but that's my opinion. Yes, Souza, you take on a lot to run this site. I'm not overlooking that. But to suggest that you are the same as anyone else here is not exactly true when you can de-activate someone just because you've had enough of them. There are a few people I'd rather not see on this site but I can't just say, "Okay, I'm done with you!" and make it so. SD has been one of the biggest contributors of analytical information in this hoax. You have put a lot of sweat and tears into this forum but I'd argue that SD has probably spent hours a day here, as well. So how is it that you're being "stabbed in the back" for all your hard work, but SD isn't? I don't see how anything she posted to you in this thread is any more severe or personally attacking than what you said in your parting post. And I also think what anybody chooses to post on another forum is their business. Anybody else can choose to go there and take up the argument, or not. That's the beauty (and peril) of the internet.
Do I have an appreciation for SD? Yes, I do so you might say I'm biased. But I have an appreciation for you, too, Souza. On this one, I just think you let your emotions combined with your admin rights get the better of you.
I have a fondness and love for both SD and Souza. I don't want to see anyone here get hurt, or sucked in by miserable press and potential liars in the world of the press. I do like what Souza wrote and how she wrote it carefully and thoughtfully though but I too must agree that SD is free to do as she pleases on other sites or on her own website. I rant my ass off on my own pages and dare anyone to tell me to stop unless it's my ISP or page provider so both Souza and SD have valid points. I just want everyone here to be careful, love love love Michael above all and be careful what we say about him or pertaining to him. I know there are snakes in our midst *NO NOT SOUZA or necessarily people we know* but possible plants by media etc...already in the fandom numbers. God forbid we dont want anymore mess like Bashir going on EVER.
I am sadned to see SD leave, she did make valid points, and Souza made valid points.We all dedicated time and energy in finding out what happened to Michael. I for one had doctor friends who are putting their careers(professions) on the line to find out about MJ death certificate.By the way Souza I do not want this published in the magazine, please. The fact is that someone needs to compromise somewhere. Discussion, not bashing eachother. Like I said on my other post, we need to get along here, love is the key word. I know we do not know eachtoher, our names, our lives, we all live in different countries and in different continents. We are all adults, we should be more rationalized, and talk to each other with respect and dignity. I never seen this in my whole life. As you all know I am a psychologist, and this behaviour is unacceptable. I teach this to the my patients who are teenagers, who come to see me because of inner problems. I am not here to discuss my career, I should say my profession, with all of you. I just would want some peace and love. Michael has been dedicating his whole life,spreading the love peace, and harmony . You call yourselves soldiers of love? I am putting myself in it.NO WE ARE NOT.( I am not perfect, I have my own flaws) but I try very hard to respect my neighbor even if they live far away. So please if not for us but for Michael let's get along and discuss this like adults. I stated that if Souza investigated this magazine and it is in the up and up go for it. Her article was very well done, she did not name any names and did not talk about Illuminati and NWO> That is perfect. But one thing crossed my mind, if people read our postings, in this forum, they will probably say "it is the internet what chances it would be real?" If they read it in a magazine, they will buy it, they will believe . How many people buy tabloid magazines and they believe everything they read? So this is our concern that if you would write anything about the hoax that may harm Michael people will believe and it may go to the wrong hands. I know Souza is an intelligent woman and she knows what she is doing. Blessings.
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." --Matthew 7:1-2
I am gonna give Souza my trust and faith that she knows what she is doing. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> I trust her completely
and know that she would not put Michael in harms way!!
Still baffled though, at the controversy surrounding this.....
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." --Matthew 7:1-2
I suggest we tread very cautiously when it comes to the media. One needs to be careful how the truth can be twisted by altering a few words or how a simple edit can ultimately change the meaning of one's original piece---regardless of the author's good intentions.
We mustn't forget that the world we live in is driven by the media-it's a huge conglomerate and it's powerful. Sadly, society accepts what they are told. If a lie is repeated enough it is accepted as truth.
In spite of this, let us not forget what Michael has often said about the media----it is good to heed his advice and be wary!
And, sadly, history has repeated itself over-and-over on this. I pray this will not bring harm to MJ or his family.
A few questions I pose that have immediately come to mind:
1)How reputable/valid is the magazine and the spokesperson(s) involved in the business dealings? Have you met them face-to-face?
2)Who is the target audience? Really? And, is that target audience receptive? What does the magazine hope to gain by it? Is it merely to increase sales/revenue? At the expense of whom?
3)What, ultimately, is the ulterior motive in this venture? What does the magazine hope to gain?
One must not forget that we need to look deeper than the surface to gain a correct perspective.
4)Will any and all exchange of money be transparent? Will there be checks and balances in place so that no mishandling occurs? Frankly, that is the only legitimate fashion in which to conduct business of this nature.
5)Does a legal contract exist giving the author full reign over their piece---meaning that the author will have full rights to check and revise any corrections/edits made before print deadline?
I am very very sad about this. <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> , but I know as a leader you have to make hard calls and decisions, and allowing members to attack the leader undermines the very existence of this forum.
After I read your post, I wanted to make a comment. I know that you're sad but something you wrote came to my attention. You wrote that there is a leader and members on the forum. I wouldn't like to name Souza as a leader. She is the admin of the forum but also a member of this community. I do not see anyone as a leader. Every each of us are equal on this forum no matter what our status is. Just wanted to state my opinion about this. And big MJ HUGS for you if you're still feeling sad. xox
Thanks to you and all4loveandbelieve. We probably all need a group hug! Every time these eruptions happen and members go, it is upsetting. I guess it's just all human nature, and the challenges of structure and organization. Sorry for not using the correct word, admin rather than leader. In my mind they're pretty much the same. I've worked with Pastors, directors, coordinators, bosses, supervisers, and I guess I've always just lumped them all into leadership, which to me is a generic word. Everywhere in life there is always chain of command, it's a necessity, or things fall into disarray. Yes I agree we're all equal as people and investigators of the hoax.
I do understand what you're saying. But I just disagree that there is no chain of command on this forum. Being an admin or mod doesn't mean that people can command us or can be our leaders. When I wrote "we're all equal", I meant we are all the same no matter what our status are. Noone is taking orders from noone here. In business issue it is right that there is chain of command but on a forum, no there is not. Anyways, this is not the issue we need to talk about. Just wanted to state my opinion about it. I respect your opinion as well. Hope you're feeling better today sweety. Love You and sending you big big HUGS. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I am done with this. The guy is going to do an article on the subject with or without our help. I can either send in the article, or let him write a piece himself and he can use whatever he wants from the blog, the index or the forum. Even though he can't literally quote it, he can use the info and no one on here can do something about it. That last option seems very tempting. Everyone happy, because Souza didn't send in an article. But don't come complaining if you don't agree with what he wrote, if this magazine will come out (something we are not even sure about).
From now on I will not be involved in anything anymore. I will maintain this site, post my own findings and that's it. I am simply baffled by some reactions.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
If, as SD suggests, this magazine is a go-nowhere enterprise then I guess in the end it will be much ado about nothing. I'm kinda middle-of-the-fence on this one. I don't damn Souza for doing it. Likewise, I don't damn those who oppose it. As with almost every discussion on this forum, there are multiple points of view.
That's it SD, I am sick and tired of your negativity, lies and arrogance on this forum. I am not spending hours a day on this to get stabbed in the back by members like you. You are out. Seems like they totally agree with you on .net, so I guess you should resume posting there.
I disagree with SD being told "you are out." Feel free to think otherwise, but that's my opinion. Yes, Souza, you take on a lot to run this site. I'm not overlooking that. But to suggest that you are the same as anyone else here is not exactly true when you can de-activate someone just because you've had enough of them. There are a few people I'd rather not see on this site but I can't just say, "Okay, I'm done with you!" and make it so. SD has been one of the biggest contributors of analytical information in this hoax. You have put a lot of sweat and tears into this forum but I'd argue that SD has probably spent hours a day here, as well. So how is it that you're being "stabbed in the back" for all your hard work, but SD isn't? I don't see how anything she posted to you in this thread is any more severe or personally attacking than what you said in your parting post. And I also think what anybody chooses to post on another forum is their business. Anybody else can choose to go there and take up the argument, or not. That's the beauty (and peril) of the internet.
Do I have an appreciation for SD? Yes, I do so you might say I'm biased. But I have an appreciation for you, too, Souza. On this one, I just think you let your emotions combined with your admin rights get the better of you.
Agree with you. SD shouldn't have banned. Sometimes we all get into arguments with some people on the forum. But we have no chance to say "ok I'm done with you" and ban the person from the forum. Being an admin souldn't give you the chance of banning people when they come against you and make negative comments that doesn't please you. And in this issue I do not believe that Souza was backstabbed by SD. If SD didn't write anything on this forum but directly went to the .net and wrote what she thought about this issue and Souza, that would be backstabbing. But she directly wrote what she thought about the issue on this forum. She stated her opinion. So how can it be backstabbing? I do agree with you PJ4MJ that Souza unfortunately let her emotions combined with her admin rights get the better of her.
I still want to know about the money issue..... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
There is no money issue anymore. I just mailed the guy that he can write his own article and that he can use the info from this website if he wants without quoting it. I am done with the backstabbing, the `Souza is a powertripping dictator´ and name calling.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I still want to know about the money issue..... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Sorry but who cares about the money? we can collect the money among us if we want to make a donation. do we need someone else to pay it to us? All I care is Michael's safety and that's it.
For those who think the info on this site is dangerous for Mike, I have news for your. This forum is public and had over a million unique visitors in 2010. So in that case you should rethink posting anything on here.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I still want to know about the money issue..... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
There is no money issue anymore. I just mailed the guy that he can write his own article and that he can use the info from this website if he wants without quoting it. I am done with the backstabbing, the `Souza is a powertripping dictator´ and name calling.
Nobody is backstabbing you Souza. If it is backstabbing when people tell their opinion about your behaviour then it is. I do respect you and consider you as a friend but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to say anything when I see something wrong. If you want us to shut our mouths up and keep it to ourselves all the time, sorry but that seems impossible to me. Let people tell what they think. It is not backstabbing or calling you names.
I don't know what to say to you Souza to make you feel better. I know you trusted your decision. I know a lot of us trusted you too. I feel bad- we all do that this divided us all so much. Quite another test. They keep befalling us lately.
I guess we'll just have to wait now and see what becomes of the article/magazine.
Truth is that we ARE known about. Anyone who wants info can come to us...
I just am grateful that you had the idea to make this site for us to join together in L.O.V.E. and hope we can find a way back to that, because with the trial coming we will be tested as never before.
I still want to know about the money issue..... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Sorry but who cares about the money? we can collect the money among us if we want to make a donation. do we need someone else to pay it to us? All I care is Michael's safety and that's it.
I care, obviously. Thats why i asked. You miss the point.
Souza has addressed the issue now, and thats all i wanted. I didnt ask for sarcasm and your own opinions on the matter, PureLove.
I still want to know about the money issue..... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
There is no money issue anymore. I just mailed the guy that he can write his own article and that he can use the info from this website if he wants without quoting it. I am done with the backstabbing, the `Souza is a powertripping dictator´ and name calling.
Nobody is backstabbing you Souza. If it is backstabbing when people tell their opinion about your behaviour then it is. I do respect you and consider you as a friend but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to say anything when I see something wrong. If you want us to shut our mouths up and keep it to ourselves all the time, sorry but that seems impossible to me. Let people tell what they think. It is not backstabbing or calling you names.
Go and read what has been written on the other forum PureLove and tell me if that is respectful in your eyes. Like I said, I am done with this and with the accusations towards me. The guy can do his article the way he wants. I will not send him anything at all but I will tell him I have no problems with using anything I wrote. Don't expect anything from me the next time and don't get mad at ME when he writes stuff you don't agree with. I tried to get everyone involved to at least have a shot at controlling it ourselves, but whatever I do, it is never the right thing in the eyes of the members.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
i can see a lot of pot calling the kettle black here <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> where has everyone been getting their information about all things michael since he exploded on the stage its called media and everyone twists the facts to suit them self even with this hoax the media is still providing the clues <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: --> so what do you do you turn the tables play them at their own game <!-- s:idea: -->:idea:<!-- s:idea: --> is that not what michael and the rest of his cast are doing <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> michael once said sony underestimated him now it looks like many here are <!-- s --><!-- s --> this issue has been simmering for a few days now long enough for the genius known as michael jackson to be fully aware of all possiblities on any media exsposure how are we suppose to get the real message of this hoax out to a wider audience without media <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> ;ets bring the love back and stop judging peoples opinions that do not always agree with our own .its all for L.O.V.E
Comments
I'm quite astonished at how this whole thing escalated the way it did.
After reading the drama, I took a second thought and started lurking on that wonderwall magazine again, and I am geting and odd déjà vu feeling.
@Souza,
what is your "back door" in case this magazine turns out to be a deception?
I disagree with SD being told "you are out." Feel free to think otherwise, but that's my opinion. Yes, Souza, you take on a lot to run this site. I'm not overlooking that. But to suggest that you are the same as anyone else here is not exactly true when you can de-activate someone just because you've had enough of them. There are a few people I'd rather not see on this site but I can't just say, "Okay, I'm done with you!" and make it so. SD has been one of the biggest contributors of analytical information in this hoax. You have put a lot of sweat and tears into this forum but I'd argue that SD has probably spent hours a day here, as well. So how is it that you're being "stabbed in the back" for all your hard work, but SD isn't? I don't see how anything she posted to you in this thread is any more severe or personally attacking than what you said in your parting post. And I also think what anybody chooses to post on another forum is their business. Anybody else can choose to go there and take up the argument, or not. That's the beauty (and peril) of the internet.
Do I have an appreciation for SD? Yes, I do so you might say I'm biased. But I have an appreciation for you, too, Souza. On this one, I just think you let your emotions combined with your admin rights get the better of you.
and know that she would not put Michael in harms way!!
Still baffled though, at the controversy surrounding this.....
Its gonna be OKAY! Seriously!
<!-- m -->http://www.cfirecm.com/QandA/Judge%20No ... Judged.htm<!-- m -->
So far my posts on that issue have not been addressed. x
We mustn't forget that the world we live in is driven by the media-it's a huge conglomerate and it's powerful. Sadly, society accepts what they are told. If a lie is repeated enough it is accepted as truth.
In spite of this, let us not forget what Michael has often said about the media----it is good to heed his advice and be wary!
And, sadly, history has repeated itself over-and-over on this. I pray this will not bring harm to MJ or his family.
A few questions I pose that have immediately come to mind:
1)How reputable/valid is the magazine and the spokesperson(s) involved in the business dealings? Have you met them face-to-face?
2)Who is the target audience? Really? And, is that target audience receptive? What does the magazine hope to gain by it? Is it merely to increase sales/revenue? At the expense of whom?
3)What, ultimately, is the ulterior motive in this venture? What does the magazine hope to gain?
One must not forget that we need to look deeper than the surface to gain a correct perspective.
4)Will any and all exchange of money be transparent? Will there be checks and balances in place so that no mishandling occurs? Frankly, that is the only legitimate fashion in which to conduct business of this nature.
5)Does a legal contract exist giving the author full reign over their piece---meaning that the author will have full rights to check and revise any corrections/edits made before print deadline?
But remember what goes around comes around IMO
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That is not Michael-like either...
I do understand what you're saying. But I just disagree that there is no chain of command on this forum. Being an admin or mod doesn't mean that people can command us or can be our leaders. When I wrote "we're all equal", I meant we are all the same no matter what our status are. Noone is taking orders from noone here. In business issue it is right that there is chain of command but on a forum, no there is not. Anyways, this is not the issue we need to talk about. Just wanted to state my opinion about it. I respect your opinion as well. Hope you're feeling better today sweety. Love You and sending you big big HUGS. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
From now on I will not be involved in anything anymore. I will maintain this site, post my own findings and that's it. I am simply baffled by some reactions.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Agree with you. SD shouldn't have banned. Sometimes we all get into arguments with some people on the forum. But we have no chance to say "ok I'm done with you" and ban the person from the forum. Being an admin souldn't give you the chance of banning people when they come against you and make negative comments that doesn't please you. And in this issue I do not believe that Souza was backstabbed by SD. If SD didn't write anything on this forum but directly went to the .net and wrote what she thought about this issue and Souza, that would be backstabbing. But she directly wrote what she thought about the issue on this forum. She stated her opinion. So how can it be backstabbing? I do agree with you PJ4MJ that Souza unfortunately let her emotions combined with her admin rights get the better of her.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Sorry but who cares about the money? we can collect the money among us if we want to make a donation. do we need someone else to pay it to us? All I care is Michael's safety and that's it.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Nobody is backstabbing you Souza. If it is backstabbing when people tell their opinion about your behaviour then it is. I do respect you and consider you as a friend but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to say anything when I see something wrong. If you want us to shut our mouths up and keep it to ourselves all the time, sorry but that seems impossible to me. Let people tell what they think. It is not backstabbing or calling you names.
I guess we'll just have to wait now and see what becomes of the article/magazine.
Truth is that we ARE known about. Anyone who wants info can come to us...
I just am grateful that you had the idea to make this site for us to join together in L.O.V.E. and hope we can find a way back to that, because with the trial coming we will be tested as never before.
I care, obviously. Thats why i asked. You miss the point.
Souza has addressed the issue now, and thats all i wanted. I didnt ask for sarcasm and your own opinions on the matter, PureLove.
Go and read what has been written on the other forum PureLove and tell me if that is respectful in your eyes. Like I said, I am done with this and with the accusations towards me. The guy can do his article the way he wants. I will not send him anything at all but I will tell him I have no problems with using anything I wrote. Don't expect anything from me the next time and don't get mad at ME when he writes stuff you don't agree with. I tried to get everyone involved to at least have a shot at controlling it ourselves, but whatever I do, it is never the right thing in the eyes of the members.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."