Why does his Motown contract say JOE? I mean, Joe (dad) was the one who took care of the papers...
It is just simple when Michael started his career he was very young not old enough to sign an official document (he wasn´t of full age and in America you must be 21 if it hasn´t been changed by now but then it was like that). So his father Joe did it because at this time he was his father AND manager. I think it is very clear why Michael could not have signed this paper but his parent. And since when are underage children allowed to sign documents...I Germny it is not allowed and I doubt that it is allowed in the USA especially children who had at that time no rights as they have today. So it is just logic. No speculation
Why does his Motown contract say JOE? I mean, Joe (dad) was the one who took care of the papers...
It is just simple when Michael started his career he was very young not old enough to sign an official document (he wasn´t of full age and in America you must be 21 if it hasn´t been changed by now but then it was like that). So his father Joe did it because at this time he was his father AND manager. I think it is very clear why Michael could not have signed this paper but his parent. And since when are underage children allowed to sign documents...I Germny it is not allowed and I doubt that it is allowed in the USA especially children who had at that time no rights as they have today. So it is just logic. No speculation
I think you don't understand me... I'm not asking why Joe took care of the paperwork, but why Joe used the name Michael JOE Jackson.
This debate seems to be going on forever <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> . I don't know if this will help, but if you check out the link below in another thread it may explain the Joe vs Joseph issue.
It seems that these list the songs that are copyrighted under Michael Joseph and Michael Joe. I didn't look at every song link, but what I did look at seems to elude to the fact that under the Jackson 5 Michaels name was Michael "Joseph". When he went solo later on, breaking from the Jackson 5, he changed it to Michael "Joe". I'm guessing it probably had more to do with him forging his own and seperate identity from the Jackson 5 and for contractual/royalty issues etc.
Look that's just my take on it. "Joseph or Joe", to me they are one in the same person.
Ofcourse Michael Joe/Joseph Jackson is one and the same person.
We're just figuring out why he uses 2 names.
IMO the stage (Joseph) and real (Joe) name makes sense.
I don't believe that he changed his name in Joe when he started his solo carriere, because his Motown contract says Joe (the one daddy Joe took care of).
Ofcourse Michael Joe/Joseph Jackson is one and the same person.
We're just figuring out why he uses 2 names.
IMO the stage (Joseph) and real (Joe) name makes sense.
I don't believe that he changed his name in Joe when he started his solo carriere, because his Motown contract says Joe (the one daddy Joe took care of).
Since you seem to be so quick in shooting down anyones theory that doesn't jive with your "Joe" is a clue belief, why not enlighten us all and share your truth with us. Might save some of us the hassel of being involved in such a minor debate here. What is your point in this?
The only thing I've said is that I don't believe that he changed his name when his solo carreer started, because his Motown contract says Joe... That's not shooting down someones theory, but giving an explanation.
Actually I would like to turn it around.... We believe it MIGHT be a clue, why do you all shoot down MJJ's theory? In our country it is FORBIDDEN to use a nickname on ANY official paper whatsoever!
The only people who trip over the Joe/Joeseph thing are folks who did not follow MJ in the J5 years. He was always Michael Joseph Jackson and I am not 16 nor 25 nor 30. Trust the old skool heads.
Agree! I'm 37, one of 8 (another 6 sisters and one brother). My sisters followed the Jacksons 5 from the beginning and as for as long as I can remember it has always been Michael Joseph Jackson.
Michael "Joe" Jackson or Michael "Joseph" Jackson. I honestly do not think it's as a big a deal as some are making it out to be. I believe they are one in the same person here. His FBI files use BOTH references Michael-Joseph and Michael-Joe. They are referring to the same person and were used interchangeably. 1993 allegations we all know were Michael. 2004 allegations we knew were Michael. One Michael, just different (and in my opinion, shortened) middle name.
I don't think it's a clue or has a hidden meaning. But that's just my opinion.
Then why does "joe" appear on documents as well?
As legal, full names have to be put in them...?!
The only people who trip over the Joe/Joeseph thing are folks who did not follow MJ in the J5 years. He was always Michael Joseph Jackson and I am not 16 nor 25 nor 30. Trust the old skool heads.
Agree! I'm 37, one of 8 (another 6 sisters and one brother). My sisters followed the Jacksons 5 from the beginning and as for as long as I can remember it has always been Michael Joseph Jackson.
Michael "Joe" Jackson or Michael "Joseph" Jackson. I honestly do not think it's as a big a deal as some are making it out to be. I believe they are one in the same person here. His FBI files use BOTH references Michael-Joseph and Michael-Joe. They are referring to the same person and were used interchangeably. 1993 allegations we all know were Michael. 2004 allegations we knew were Michael. One Michael, just different (and in my opinion, shortened) middle name.
I don't think it's a clue or has a hidden meaning. But that's just my opinion.
Then why does "joe" appear on documents as well?
As legal, full names have to be put in them...?!
Honestly, I'm done with this Joe vs Joseph thing. You have your opinion and I have mine. Both opinions are supported with theories and documents that evidence both uses of names.
Seriously this debate is just going around and around in circles.
Honestly, I'm done with this Joe vs Joseph thing. You have your opinion and I have mine. Both opinions are supported with theories and documents that evidence both uses of names.
Seriously this debate is just going around and around in circles.
Legally it makes not much difference we are taking about one in the same person the person who is stated to be dead, and the person we are talking about is the thriller guy> If he used shortened versions, it would make no difference a simple explanation to any court judge would be suffice - known as housekeeping.
I agree with MJJ1982... The motown contract says joe, the copy of his passeport says joe, his mother in her book says joe, the papers in court say joe too... and in the fbi it's the twos ? I'm sorry I didn't go through all the file, I hadn't the time.
The one that really convinces me it's joe in the court papers ... the only thing I don't get is that in his marriage papers it says joseph ... Then it would be invalid? How does it work in the US? I don't know . To me, the performer has died but not the man ... And it would be legally important if he plans to come back. Because if he is really Michael Joe Jackson, then he is not officially dead because on papers it says "Michael Joseph Jackson", then he could not have "legal problem" regarding the hoax... (sorry if I haven't explained very well, it's so confusing ^^)
But that's only an opinion.I don't know much about the US system. This discussion will go on forever I think lol
Why does his Motown contract say JOE? I mean, Joe (dad) was the one who took care of the papers...
It is just simple when Michael started his career he was very young not old enough to sign an official document (he wasn´t of full age and in America you must be 21 if it hasn´t been changed by now but then it was like that). So his father Joe did it because at this time he was his father AND manager. I think it is very clear why Michael could not have signed this paper but his parent. And since when are underage children allowed to sign documents...I Germny it is not allowed and I doubt that it is allowed in the USA especially children who had at that time no rights as they have today. So it is just logic. No speculation
I think you don't understand me... I'm not asking why Joe took care of the paperwork, but why Joe used the name Michael JOE Jackson.
I am sorry, I did not want to quote you. I picked it up just to underline my poit of view and after that I have just realized that I did not want to relate to your statement. Sorry for that it is just my mistake...
I agree with MJJ1982... The motown contract says joe, the copy of his passeport says joe, his mother in her book says joe, the papers in court say joe too... and in the fbi it's the twos ? I'm sorry I didn't go through all the file, I hadn't the time.
The one that really convinces me it's joe in the court papers ... the only thing I don't get is that in his marriage papers it says joseph ... Then it would be invalid? How does it work in the US? I don't know . To me, the performer has died but not the man ... And it would be legally important if he plans to come back. Because if he is really Michael Joe Jackson, then he is not officially dead because on papers it says "Michael Joseph Jackson", then he could not have "legal problem" regarding the hoax... (sorry if I haven't explained very well, it's so confusing ^^)
But that's only an opinion.I don't know much about the US system. This discussion will go on forever I think lol
im agree with the comeback name theory ..
that's what im thinking about ..
when he won't have some problem with law ..
he need another name
Sono d'accordo con MJJ1982 ... Il contratto di motown, dice Joe, la copia del suo passeport dice Joe, sua madre nel suo libro, dice Joe, le carte in tribunale dice Joe troppo ... e l'FBI è il due a due? Mi dispiace di non passare attraverso tutti i file, non ho avuto il tempo.
Quello che veramente [/ b] mi convince è joe nei documenti di tribunale ... l'unica cosa che non capisco è che nelle sue carte matrimonio, dice Joseph ... Allora sarebbe non valida? Come funziona negli Stati Uniti? Io non lo so. Per me, l'artista è morto, ma non l'uomo ... E sarebbe giuridicamente importante se ha intenzione di tornare. Perché se è veramente Michael Joe Jackson, allora non è ufficialmente morto a causa sui documenti si dice "Michael Joseph Jackson", allora egli non avrebbe potuto "problema giuridico" per quanto riguarda la beffa ... (sorry se non mi sono spiegato molto bene, è così confusa ^ ^)
Ma questo è solo un opinion.I non so molto del sistema americano. Il dibattito andrà avanti per sempre penso lol [/ quote]
IM d'accordo con la teoria nome rimonta ..
questo è quello che im pensando ..
quando non avrà qualche problema con il diritto ..
ha bisogno di un altro nome [/ quote]
Hello <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
It is indeed a clue of where they are talking about on the forum, MjjForum.it.
Do I enter the web address:
i can't say whether JOE/Joseph thingis a big deal or not... but what got me thinking is the fact that the TII youtube video shows michael's handwritten page that says Michael JOSEPH Jackson and then in the TII movie itself Michael thanks "Kathreen and JOSEPH" I mean Michael does not uses the nickname of his father though he called his father JOE in interview with Oprah.
Here I would also like to share with you guys that I read about some of the earlier lawsuits of Michael but some say 'Michael Jackson Vs XYZ', others say 'Michael Joseph Jackson Vs XYZ and still other says 'Michael Joe Jackson Vs XYZ'....I will try to post more information about it ...I don't remember if i saved the links...will have to check out the CDs. Once I get them i will post them if you like
I am watching The Jacksons: An American Dream. It showed the scene where Katherine just gave birth to a baby (Michael). Katherine and her mother were trying to think of names. Katherine named him Michael Joesph Jackson. I always thought his legal name was Michael Joseph Jackson.
I am watching The Jacksons: An American Dream. It showed the scene where Katherine just gave birth to a baby (Michael). Katherine and her mother were trying to think of names. Katherine named him Michael Joesph Jackson. I always thought his legal name was Michael Joseph Jackson.
Correct me if I'm wrong but in her book "My family, The Jacksons", Katherine mentions Michael as Michael Joe Jackson...
For me the fact that his court documents, passport, and drivers license as well as the FBI report stating "whose true name was Michael Joe Jackson" all state Joe and not Joseph gives me enough to put my mind at ease that his true name was Michael Joe. However, I think that the only way we will EVER be able to truly end this debate is to have a copy of his birth certificate with his true given name on it. Unfortunately, I do not think that is going to happen so we will continue to debate this subject forever.
For me the fact that his court documents, passport, and drivers license as well as the FBI report stating "whose true name was Michael Joe Jackson" all state Joe and not Joseph gives me enough to put my mind at ease that his true name was Michael Joe. However, I think that the only way we will EVER be able to truly end this debate is to have a copy of his birth certificate with his true given name on it. Unfortunately, I do not think that is going to happen so we will continue to debate this subject forever.
Comments
It is just simple when Michael started his career he was very young not old enough to sign an official document (he wasn´t of full age and in America you must be 21 if it hasn´t been changed by now but then it was like that). So his father Joe did it because at this time he was his father AND manager. I think it is very clear why Michael could not have signed this paper but his parent. And since when are underage children allowed to sign documents...I Germny it is not allowed and I doubt that it is allowed in the USA especially children who had at that time no rights as they have today. So it is just logic. No speculation
I think you don't understand me... I'm not asking why Joe took care of the paperwork, but why Joe used the name Michael JOE Jackson.
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2247<!-- l -->
It seems that these list the songs that are copyrighted under Michael Joseph and Michael Joe. I didn't look at every song link, but what I did look at seems to elude to the fact that under the Jackson 5 Michaels name was Michael "Joseph". When he went solo later on, breaking from the Jackson 5, he changed it to Michael "Joe". I'm guessing it probably had more to do with him forging his own and seperate identity from the Jackson 5 and for contractual/royalty issues etc.
Look that's just my take on it. "Joseph or Joe", to me they are one in the same person.
We're just figuring out why he uses 2 names.
IMO the stage (Joseph) and real (Joe) name makes sense.
I don't believe that he changed his name in Joe when he started his solo carriere, because his Motown contract says Joe (the one daddy Joe took care of).
Since you seem to be so quick in shooting down anyones theory that doesn't jive with your "Joe" is a clue belief, why not enlighten us all and share your truth with us. Might save some of us the hassel of being involved in such a minor debate here. What is your point in this?
As legal, full names have to be put in them...?!
Honestly, I'm done with this Joe vs Joseph thing. You have your opinion and I have mine. Both opinions are supported with theories and documents that evidence both uses of names.
Seriously this debate is just going around and around in circles.
It's your right to be done with it.
The one that really convinces me it's joe in the court papers ... the only thing I don't get is that in his marriage papers it says joseph ... Then it would be invalid? How does it work in the US? I don't know . To me, the performer has died but not the man ... And it would be legally important if he plans to come back. Because if he is really Michael Joe Jackson, then he is not officially dead because on papers it says "Michael Joseph Jackson", then he could not have "legal problem" regarding the hoax... (sorry if I haven't explained very well, it's so confusing ^^)
But that's only an opinion.I don't know much about the US system. This discussion will go on forever I think lol
I am sorry, I did not want to quote you. I picked it up just to underline my poit of view and after that I have just realized that I did not want to relate to your statement. Sorry for that it is just my mistake...
<!-- m -->http://www.jdsupra.com/documents/af0996 ... 54de17.pdf<!-- m -->
Ofcourse it's not real, because he didn't die...
im agree with the comeback name theory ..
that's what im thinking about ..
when he won't have some problem with law ..
he need another name
Here I would also like to share with you guys that I read about some of the earlier lawsuits of Michael but some say 'Michael Jackson Vs XYZ', others say 'Michael Joseph Jackson Vs XYZ and still other says 'Michael Joe Jackson Vs XYZ'....I will try to post more information about it ...I don't remember if i saved the links...will have to check out the CDs. Once I get them i will post them if you like
Correct me if I'm wrong but in her book "My family, The Jacksons", Katherine mentions Michael as Michael Joe Jackson...
100% agree with you.