Another thing everyone failed to mention and would have been very difficult to replicate on a photoshop are the defibrillator marks.<br /><br />If they truly tried to revive him, (remember UCLA was the best known hospital for their program to revive the dead even after one or two hours) there would be iron like marks on his chest. Or if they shocked the heart directly, there would have been cuts on his chest to expose his heart to the shock paddles.<br /><br />So are we to believe that the emergency team did not do what they could have. Did the EMTs in the ambulance also not have a portable defibrillator that they could have revived Michael with. So that means they are all to blame. Its basic first aid for a heart patient who has flatlined.<br /><br />There aren't even hand compression marks where Murray would have broken Michael's ribs if he had to really do compressions - and people still believe this is a real autopsy/dead body pic? WTF??
<br />Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.<br />
<br /><br /><br />@purelove - pure perfect comment!!! /bravo/<br />
In my opinion, the people who think Murray tried to kill Mike and he escaped at the last minute and quickly set up this hoax, are unable to see the work that was put in this and how brilliant it is. I agree with PureLove, that would mean underestimating Michael BIG TIME. This is HUGE.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.<br />
<br /><br />Purelove I was coming here to make a comment and then noticed your post. Well said! <br /><br />So I don't have to make two post I'll just post my thoughts here: <br />Sorry I don't mean to come out harsh but this is something I stayed up all night thinking about. By all means I am ready for the bashing and degrading comments that I am sure are to come but before people start typing just think about it for a few minutes. <br /><br />People can't have it both way! Either that's Michael dead on the autopsy table or this is a hoax. If we are to think that it is truly Michael (dead) then we have to dismiss everything else that we have learned in the last two years and chalk all of the "coincidences" that we have seen/heard to just that coincidences. All of the numbers are just written in the stars and the family members who have made "oops" slip ups are just greedy people who don't give a crap about Michael besides what they can get out of this mostly being money with all of the interviews and book deals that have gone on in the last 2+ years. We then would also have to accept that Michael was, as Purelove said, a vulnerable weak man who was so dependent on drugs which would make TII a complete fabrication to our minds of what we thought was a healthy Michael ready to rock the stage for all to see. <br /><br />To take it a step further we would then need to just accept that all of the inconsistencies that we have seen in the last 2 years (too many to count) and everyone who has opened up their mouth needs to see a doctor about memory loss because they can't remember what they have said from one interview to another.<br /><br />To take it one step further, Back, TS and Front then all have more then enough time on their hands and should seek immediate mental help for all of the post that they have done which in turn would mean that we too need to seek mental help because of the chain reaction. Meaning TS or Front post on this board and then the research starts and all of the connections that can be made are just the draw of luck. If that is truly the case then there is a whole lot of luck in the air and I should take a chance at playing the lottery. <br /><br />Is it that "coincidental" that Michael had this in the making for years and it just so happens that Murray comes along to kill him (hired or not) and everything just happens to line up with everything Michael had been working on to begin with? If we think that Murray was trying (again hired or not) to kill Michael and he found out and was able to escape then the sentence before has no standing and it again was just a coincidence that everything in the past connects and we should all quit and call it a day. <br /><br />With that being said, I feel better thank you for letting me get that out. <br /><br />
Here I am gathering a few thoughts together!<br /><br />I'll be honest and say that watching the trial, and anticipating the verdict, I've been going from side to side almost daily!<br /><br />With Fleak and the detective who examined and photographed the house, I thought Murray will surely go free - there were so many flaws in their actions regarding evidence and securing the house etc. Then the cardiologist and sleep expert had me thinking Murray is guilty as sin - but they based their testimonies on Murray's own 'interview' (not testimony, as the judge pointed out many times), assumptions about MJ and addiction that they appeared to have got straight from the tabloids, and Klein's records, which conveniently he is not going to be called to account for.<br /><br />I'm really interested to see what the defense witnesses come up with next week. I'm thinking there may be a few shocks and surprises here and I'm organising my life to be able to watch it all!<br /><br />But I tell you, it IS a hard job being an impartial jury member! When stories do not match, are people really lying, or just forgetful of what really happened, and just who do you believe?! And anyway, would YOU forget what happened if you'd been around when Michael Jackson died?? suspicious// <br /><br />If he WAS dead, let's say accidentally, giving Murray the huge benefit of the doubt, or yes, even with Murray as an unethical, ill-equiped man-slaughterer, things would surely be far more straightforward - people's stories would tie up more and be believable (e.g. LaToya, Jermaine). Photos would not be shown as they add nothing to the jury's understanding of the case, as they would if there were injuries etc pertaining to the manner of death. And if photos HAD to be shown to the jury for these reasons, the judge would not allow them to be shown to the entire world as well.<br /><br />If he was murdered, it would surely have been done in a watertight, no-questions-asked way. There would not have been a questionable doctor and subsequent court case involved. I have never entertained this idea.<br /><br />I don't think MJ is dead, therefore to have all this hulabaloo over his death has to be intentional. This HAS to be a movie, a real life reality production. I cannot get my head round any other theory.<br /><br />Now how much the court is hoax, sting or a mixture of both, I can't say. I will stick my neck out and say it's more than just 'entertainment', because all of MJ's previous work has always had a deeper meaning or message than just for entertainment's sake. There is no reason to suppose this epic production, the best that was 'yet to come', would not have equally epic deeper layers. I'm watching and waiting to fully understand what these may be. I've almost given up speculating now and I'm in 'wait and see' mode!<br /><br /><br />Oh, and finally, one unrelated thought I had recently, which was prompted by someone accusing me of being a 'crazy MJ fan who, along with other crazy MJ fans, was bound to make up a suitably crazy faked death story when he died'. Well I was never, and am still not, a crazy MJ fan - and more importantly, I'd say the vast majority of us here were and still are not. The 'crazy MJ fans', if such a thing exists are the ones still wailing and mourning their idol. And they did not invent a death hoax. Their 'craziness' and short-sighted adoration didn't make them go with a faked death idea because they couldn't bear the thought of him being gone. It was all of us, with our many and varied (and less 'fanatical' in many cases) 'histories' regarding MJ, who through some unexplained phenomenon were drawn to DISCOVER the hoax - we didn't INVENT it! That explanation, needless to say, didn't convince my accuser!
<br /><br />People can't have it both way! Either that's Michael dead on the autopsy table or this is a hoax. If we are to think that it is truly Michael (dead) then we have to dismiss everything else that we have learned in the last two years and chalk all of the "coincidences" that we have seen/heard to just that coincidences. All of the numbers are just written in the stars and the family members who have made "oops" slip ups are just greedy people who don't give a crap about Michael besides what they can get out of this mostly being money with all of the interviews and book deals that have gone on in the last 2+ years. We then would also have to accept that Michael was, as Purelove said, a vulnerable weak man who was so dependent on drugs which would make TII a complete fabrication to our minds of what we thought was a healthy Michael ready to rock the stage for all to see. <br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Brilliantly put Mish! respect/ Guess I was trying to say similar with my ramblings just now!
<br />You know on second thought, this is a never-ending, un-winnable debate. Most aren't going to really believe until MJ moonwalks across the courtroom. And some won't even believe then.<br /><br /><br />Front and TS both talk about patient persistence when dealing with non-believers but what they fail to address is the increasing prevalence of desperate lengths being gone to by "believers" in order to talk themselves OUT OF believing. As weeks and months and years have gone by, people have become increasingly fearful of believing. People have a great deal of fear over being disappointed. People are afraid to get their hearts broken; skepticism is a defense mechanism. I wonder if this human psyche phenomenon was foreseen or if this is one of those hoaxy spin offs that has taken on a life of it's own.<br /><br /><br />Either way, it's noteworthy to mention. This growing trend makes me want to save my breath. People are going to believe the TV until reality takes a giant poop on their coffee table. That's just how it is.<br />
<br /> <br />@Bec....I can sense your frustration and it's understandable...I think we've all experienced frustration at various times throughout this hoax. But PLEASE don't start 'saving your breath'!! The ONLY two things I'm not willing to 'bend' on are 1) Mike being alive...there's just way too much that we've seen and learned to make me believe otherwise....and 2) that he 'threw' this all together at the last minute to escape....again, WAY too intricate detailing for that to even have an ounce of credibility. Mike IS alive and anyone who 'wavers' on that point, especially people who have followed this hoax for 2+ years....need to re-examine why they've stuck around for so long.<br /> <br />The points members have made about there being no 'body'....especially the latest posts by Bec and Souza....make a lot of sense. From the beginning, it made more sense that, if at all possible, no real dead 'body' would be used. I had always leaned more towards there having been a 'dummy' and real live MJ used at varying times. Once I heard Dr. Cooper's testimony, though, I started to re-examine my beliefs...primarily because she stated that there were 14 (convenient #) people, in total, in the trauma port at UCLA working on a 'body'. Furthermore, she said that up to 6 other docs (Nguyen included) were consulted by her on June 25th. So I started thinking....these 14 + 6 inconsequential people would have to be 'in on it' as well....and would it make 'sense' for Mike to include these 'other' unknowns in the hoax? Again, always keeping in mind (my belief anyway) that the fewer people 'in on it' the better.<br /> <br />Now, having read Bec, Souza, and others' perspectives/ideas on there not needing to be a 'body'....I've started thinking differently about the whole thing. I had NO problem believing that those in the house on June 25th were 'in on it' (i.e. Murray, security, even EMTs)...it was Dr. Cooper's testimony that got me rethinking the possibility of there being a real dead body. Dr. Cooper said there were 14 other people in the trauma port that day and that she consulted up to 6 other docs. The ONLY person, among those supposed 20 people, that also testified was Dr. Nguyen. Where are the other 19 people? We haven't heard from any of them...so we'd have to take Dr. Cooper's 'word for it' that these people were even present. But if Dr. Cooper is on the hoax, which I think she would have to be, can we take any of her testimony at 'face value'? Looking back now, it seems 'logical' and for those who have always believed there was no body used...you may be shaking your heads thinking WTF?? ...why is it only making 'sense' now? But the reality is (at least for me)...that once you start down a 'path', you tend to look for points/ideas that support your belief and not focus too much on different ones. It IS the different perspectives that allow us to broaden, strengthen, or change our beliefs and that's why they're necessary and very much appreciated.<br /> <br />Again, I know that it is frustrating at times for us to keep going over points or 'theories' that, in our minds, have been 'proven'. But the only way to strengthen our beliefs is to listen to other perspectives and line them up against our own...and look for what seems more plausible. Therefore, I TRULY hope that Bec and others will keep sharing their thoughts and ideas....even if there's moments when it feels like it's a waste of time and/or it's best to 'save our breath'. I REALLY appreciate hearing all perspectives because, at the end of the day, it is all theory since none of us were there or have the 'inside' scoop. But even when dealing with 'theories'...hearing different ideas/perspectives...allows us to 1) share our thoughts, which in turn helps us on an individual level because writing helps to sort out our ideas, and 2) it allows us to re-examine our beliefs, which in turn either strengthens what we believe or it causes us to tweak our beliefs. <br /> <br />Either way...all we really have is each other and an unknown amount of time on our hands. Frustration, at certain times, is inevitable (imagine how frustrated Mike must be at times)...but in order to keep maintaining the purpose of this site (and I firmly believe that there is a VERY important reason for this site beyond the beauty of coming together over Mike)...we must work through that frustration, forgive each other when/if we 'lash out' because of that frustration, and work as a team...even if only to get through the 'darkness'.<br /> <br />To sum up lol....Bec PLEASE don't start 'saving your breath'....you, Souza and every member who is genuinely looking for 'truth' and understanding, and trying to make 'sense' of everything....always have been and always will be, greatly appreciated.<br /> <br />With L.O.V.E. always.
Universe,<br />Galaxy,<br />Solar system, <br />Planet,<br />Continent,<br />Country<br /> <br />Start broad and work down to a smaller and more concentrated entity....like a pyramid turned upside down...666 into 999<br /> <br />Someone in a big broader "agency' at the "top" knows. <br />The next person down from them "knows"<br />Next person down from them "knows"<br />So on.....and<br />so on<br /> <br />The entire thing has been, and will continue to be, an illusion for the non-believers and believers......it's for ALL of us.<br /> <br />No-one knows FOR SURE exactly how Michael has done this....except most would agree that it has been brilliantly planned for a long, long time and has been brilliantly executed....and continues to be.<br /> <br />
<br />Did anyone see Man On The Moon with Jim Carrey? There's a scene that takes place at UCLA Medical Center where the parents and siblings of Andy Koffman are being told by a doctor that their son/brother is dying of cancer. They don't believe it's true because they know at UCLA doctors can be hired by movie companies. This holds true to policemen, firemen, coroners, etc., they all can be hired to play a roll and sign a disclaimer not to reveal the truth. Even at the end of the movie it implies that Andy Koffman is alive. Danny Devito also starred in this movie. Since he worked with Andy - why would he be ok with this ending unless he knew something? Food for thought...<br />
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Msgitm thank you very much for this post.That movie is awesome,Jim Carrey and Danny Devito also respect/.Talking aboutJim Carrey,here is what he was doing lately :[/size]<br /><br />Jim Carrey Gets Into a Graffiti War With New York City<br /><br />Jim Carrey has always been off the wall. But that is what we loved most about Carrey. At least that is what I loved most about Carrey. The media lately has been calling Jim out basically saying he has “gone off the deep end” or now “he’s just totally crazy”. The truth is, Jim Carrey is a GENIUS. Yeah, a GENIUS! If you don’t think so, I strongly recommend that you watch Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. and then get back to me.<br />All that being said, Carrey has been in the news lately. First it was for professing his love on YouTube for Emma Stone. In which he lets her know she is “All the way beautiful”, as well as telling her, “We would laugh all day long…go camping…play Yahtzee…tell ghost stories by the fire.” He is romantic for sure.<br />Now the spotlight is on Carrey over graffiti he painted on his art studio. The media misreported it as his house. Saying how he was trying to depreciate the value on his home. Not true at all! But Carrey was spotted over Labor Day weekend spray painting his West Village New York art studio. He actually had to re-paint it after New York officials painted over it.<br />The original picture was of a character he created named Baba, who he explained is a “mischievous deity … [who] exists in negative space.” He also tagged the wall with the initials “F.F.C.” Carrey took to twitter to explain it was actually his art studio, which he has dubbed “The Church of FFC.”<br />“In case u believe what u read in papers n blogs lolol/, i did’t tag my house,” he tweeted. “It’s my art studio, a simple space where i can unleash my #Boing.”<br />His work was then painted over by New York officials, and Carrey was not too happy. Nor should he be. It is his damn property. So he decided to paint the image back on, along with the words written in bright green spray paint, “This graffiti reapplied pursuant to …” with a picture of Baba and the initials F.F.C.<br />Carrey to TMZ, “This gentleman has a job to do,” (of the city worker who painted over his original graffiti) “I’m just doing my job now as an artist and putting it back up. They can take it down again if they want to and it’s OK with me … I’ll even pay for it.”<br />With all the murders in NYC lately, as well as the focus on terrorists for the [size=12pt]9/11 anniversary,[/size] imagine that they are messing with Carrey over art on a wall. I just don’t get what is with all the authoritarian behavior everywhere. What a sign of things to come! afraid/ OMG!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> As for Danny Devito here he is doing wonderful things for children together with Bruce Willis,Jack Nicholson and many more respect/ :<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />[size=12pt]You know what HE said: IT'S ALL FOR LOVE!!!!![/size]
After reading more wonderful well thought out posts my thoughts are:<br /><br />1. I still think there is the possibility of a real body during the 911 call that the EMT's didn't recognize as Michael (warm room). EMT #3 "missing" and not testifying might be a strong indication of the Sting element & FBI involvement... and the erasure of the security tapes.<br /><br />2. The hospital ER fiasco is not real = some sort of drill or set up. Remember the Lock-down? The Alarm? Shaun S? Like someone said...where are all these people that were involved and WHY aren't they testifying?<br /><br />3. The Autopsy is FAKE just like all the pictures Mike has posed for and manipulated. TS has indicated in the past the Coroner is in on it. Let's remember the Autopsy was dated 9-9-09 That last death photo has very strange numbers indicating DATE... It looked like 8-25-2009 (check the background of the DATES) http://youtu.be/Th-XXcdZSQM I think the date thing was MADE to draw attention.THERE ARE THREE 9'S. The "six" is a turned upside down 9! 999 is a hoax number. I believe this photo & Autopsy report are connected. Perhaps it's a good time to go back and re-read some stuff:<br /><br />TS:Introduction for Update #4http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,7010.msg113502.html#msg113502<br /><br />This update is about 777, 9-9-09, and the highly planned timing of the hoax. This is the same subject, with much more detail, that I posted on the original MJHD with the username STUDY (posted on 9-7-09). That was my very first post; and many wondered where I came from all of a sudden, where I got the information from, and whether I was MJ himself—or at least someone very close to MJ.<br /><br />Now, half of a year later, I am going to give far more information about the timing of the hoax—including the timing of the autopsy report, finalized on 9-9-09; this report came out one day after my Update #3 {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=5024&p=78302}, which stated clearly that my next update (#4) would be about 9-9-09.<br /><br />For the sake of new hoax believers, or non-hoax believers (murder theory advocates, etc): I designed this update so that you can follow most everything, without reading any of the previous TIAI posts. Therefore, a few things are repeated here that were already covered in my previous posts.<br /><br />TIAI Update #4b: 777 + 999 = Greatest Proof of Hoax, Not Murder<br />4-7. The Red Shirt & “777”<br />4-8. Numbers 4 Evil & Numbers 4 Good<br />4-9. Why Does 7 Represent Perfection?<br />4-10. Rounding: Down, Nearest Whole, and Up<br />4-11. 77 & 7 Days From the “Death”, & “Burial” to the “Resurrection”<br />4-12. Number 9 Represents Regeneration (Resurrection)<br />4-13. MJ “1998” Autographs<br />4-14. The Autograph on “Dangerous”<br />4-15. MJ “Resurrection” Before “Return”<br />4-16. Autopsy Report “9-9-09, Date Finalized”<br />4-17. “This Is It” Movie Poster on 9-9-09<br />4-18. Jermaine and La Toya Supported 9-9-09<br />4-19. Stock Market Bottom on 3-6: 666!<br />4-20 The Idiot-Maker Rally Started on 3-9<br />4-21. 777 + 999 = 1776; Greatest Demonstration for Freedom
Hi friends. I don't get much time to come into the forum, as the trial is soaking up my LIFE! lol. I really LOVE having the chat to toss around thoughts during the trial too.<br /><br />My thoughts about his hoax change as do all of us as we learn more and more. At this point, with all the coverage, my questions are about finances. I DO think there must NOT have been a body, which is for all the reasons Souza states. But, I feel that by saying that, that pretty much everyone must be in on this. I know it can be argued, but if a body, then the bodyguards, Murray, the emts, cops, hosp professionals, coroners must have seen it, and if NOT, then, no body. So, if no body, this must be, to me, simply a hoax. I'd like to think sting, because of the financing. From the beginning, money..paying people would have to be involved. The emts, cops. Unless they are actors...or acting, which still means payments. Then that memorial would've cost a LOT. True, some has been paid for...but, don't we think the state, city, would want reembursed??? There were vehicles, sets, lighting...geez it goes on and on.<br /><br />There are script writers, professionals to write up autopsies...legal papers..and all the costs or courtrooms, attorneys, all the witnesses, the judge and jurys TIME! BUT, what gets me the MOST, is all the coverage from the media this is getting. To me, either the network COVERING this trial 24/7 is in on what is happening, or they'd be up in arms after the hoax is over, because they report actual crimes, although in a tabloid way. And the sponsors, commercial time buying space for the time. I can't see how Michael, no matter how wealthy could pay all these people. So, I tend to think sting, but still, how could it be a sting, if all these people know what's going on because of no body? And if they don't know...then I feel there must be a body.<br /><br />So I think, no sting..no body..just HOAX. A movie. Grand movie..Oscar worthy. Then again, I'm back to how the hell do these people get paid for all this??? And what about reprocussious down the road if this turns out to be just a hoax planned for years. But, also, by this simply being a movie, there'd be people who'd know he's alive and I can't believe no one would've ratted him out...<br /><br />I believe it WILL be a movie no matter the outcome...but, I just cannot understand how this is all being paid for if a not a sting, and if a sting, how it could be without a body.<br />
<br />You know on second thought, this is a never-ending, un-winnable debate. Most aren't going to really believe until MJ moonwalks across the courtroom. And some won't even believe then.<br /><br /><br />Front and TS both talk about patient persistence when dealing with non-believers but what they fail to address is the increasing prevalence of desperate lengths being gone to by "believers" in order to talk themselves OUT OF believing. As weeks and months and years have gone by, people have become increasingly fearful of believing. People have a great deal of fear over being disappointed. People are afraid to get their hearts broken; skepticism is a defense mechanism. I wonder if this human psyche phenomenon was foreseen or if this is one of those hoaxy spin offs that has taken on a life of it's own.<br /><br /><br />Either way, it's noteworthy to mention. This growing trend makes me want to save my breath. People are going to believe the TV until reality takes a giant poop on their coffee table. That's just how it is.<br />
<br />Could the Sting be also against some doctors that have "treated" Michael? I say that because I was wondering again about what Michael is trying to show us with the trial. For the moment I see that Murray is in very bad waters, I don't see how it is possible to not find him guilty. He made colossal "mistakes", so he is responsible. With that in mind it is possible that one of the purposes of this trial could be not to show us that an innocent man can be found guilty but the exact opposite? That he is in fact guilty of gross negligence. This would then fit in with the sting theory to expose the doctor/doctors who did this to Michael.<br /><br />I am thinking of the pictures we've been shown for example, maybe that some of them represent the truth of past events? And Michael is trying to show us what happened to him years ago like a sort of documentary. It's a kind of re-enactment of HIStory.<br /><br />Coming back to the Sting, it could very well be directed at those doctors. God, they should feel threatened right now after having seen these pictures. :evil:<br /><br />Several doctors have been mentioned already during the trial, and Arnold Klein is one of them. What makes me think the Sting could be directed at him for example is that he was Michael's main doctor and is NOT on the witness list??? Why? It does not make any sense at all given the "theme" discussed in the trial. So I'm of the opinion that this fact, to not have included Klein in the witness list, is a BIG hint as to whom the sting is directed at. Remember as well the statements that surrounded Klein after Michael's "death"; the gay garbage and the children conception. I will (safely?) assume that Michael would never include this in the Hoax. And don't forget Back's post about Klein that has been mentioned earlier in this thread.<br /><br />Of course it would make the FBI involved.<br />
<br />I wanted to add some more thoughts to this theory. Concerning the autopsy picture my opinion is that a dummy was used, like the one for the ambulance picture with bits of Photoshop magic of course. Dummies can be flexible which fits with what La Toya said about being able to bend the body and which could explain the body moving in the helicopter ride lol. It's also possible to close/open the eyes of a dummy, hence why they're closed in the ambulance and why Jermaine has been able to open them at the hospital.<br /><br />I just want to make clear that in this theory Murray is in on it, helping Michael actually BUT he is playing, portraying doctor(s) who may have acted in the same way with Michael. So Murray is actually a part of the sting and why not an FBI agent himself. Who knows.<br /><br />Concerning the FBI I only see all this being possible with them being involved (key people in key places). I don't think it's possible to fake your death on such a grand scale without their help. Of course they would get involved only if a sting operation is attached to the Hoax, they wouldn't if it was just for a reality movie. Also it would make it easier for the doctors, coroner et al to be involved because they would just cooperate without asking too much questions. So my opinion is that most of the doctors and the coroner are in on it.
:roll: The pictures of the "corpse" by Michael Jackson should be BEFORE of the autopsy because there are no signs of incisions.<br /> To Leave a corpse on a stretcher with bandages and tubing to the nose does not seem "professional."<br /> In the first picture is not clear where the feet are finished ...<br /> The face would be swollen according to the testimony of family members so that they would justified the fact of not exposing the body it in the coffin.<br /> According to the testimony of the first rescuers looked like an old Michael, a skeletal body.<br /> It does not seem !<br /> The body could be photoshoppato.<br /> Or it could be a dummy.<br /> Michael Jackson is unpredictable!<br /> In any case, Michael Jackson is not the "corpse body"!<br /> moonwalk_/
<br />In my opinion, the people who think Murray tried to kill Mike and he escaped at the last minute and quickly set up this hoax, are unable to see the work that was put in this and how brilliant it is. I agree with PureLove, that would mean underestimating Michael BIG TIME. This is HUGE.<br />
<br /> <br />Souza, first of all I am not people. you read my post you can simply say all4loveandbelieve.. secondly I said it was a theory.. and i also said it did not kind of made sense. I did not say I believe in what I wrote.. I do see the work and how brilliant it is.. Your ideas may not be so accurate either and I never put you down. This is the 3rd time you and dissing me and I do not like it.. Like i told you before, you can tell a person anything you want and it is the way you say it.. You could have rephrased it differently and I wouldn't have taken it badly.. If I am telling you this it is not to make you feel bad, but I am an honest person and respectful person, and this needed to be said..
Getting abstract for the wider perspective.<br />One of the main themes in this journey is<br /> <br /> "leaving abandoned, neglect, disrespect, missing support, oblivion, not being at the place at the moment when help was needed, when somebody entrusted and helpless relied on you"<br /> <br /> in combination with <br /> <br /> "family, children --> future"<br /> <br /> and<br /> <br /> "an authority in charge and duty".<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Some coming from an ethical standpoint do judge such a situation not as an involuntary manslaughter but consider calling it murder.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Now making the loop back from <br /> "it is murder" when an "authority in charge and duty" "does neglect, forget and disrespect" "helpless, entrusted persons relying on authority's help" ... <br /> <br /> <br /> does this sound familiar as a situation we all know, witnessed and were told it was another one's fault and / or evil mission?<br /> <br /> How come we put a single person on trial because he was involved in a situation with one VIP person, yet forget about questioning and putting those sitting in positions we elected them into on a pillory when they continue to neglect, forget and disrespect the many entrusted persons relying on them?<br /><br />I am thinking of Haiti, the Gulf spill, New Orleans, and numerous other occasions when help was needed badly and was not provided in time, in quality, in quantity, in the right and appropriate way. Not to speak of 9II when people chose rather to jump to death and not wait for the fire. Not to speak of the ongoing murder of children in Africa due to financial market gamblers speculating on food prices. Not to speak of John Doe and his family suffering from financial crisis (to the benefit of only a few), unemployment, poisoned food, deprivation of civil rights and future perspectives.<br /><br /> <br /> In the Middle Ages, a baker delivering breads that were too small was put on a pillory, a thief lost his hand and somebody who poisoned a spring was killed. I am not saying that this was right. But a community then would not accept being deprived of their fundamental needs and rights and the consequent punishment rose attention to commonly shared values.<br /> <br /> These days, commonly shared values are diminishing to the same degree as soap operas, sit-ins and reality show are getting babies like mice and people's representatives are getting openly bought by lobbyists.<br /> <br /> This trial is not only about Michael Jackson as a person.<br /> This is performance art in a dimension that was never seen on earth before.<br /> Michael has dedicated himself to perform as a sacrificial lamb in order to unveil the truth about our reality, hypocrisy and virulent gamblers.<br /> These are indeed "pictures at an exhibition".<br /> <br /> Michael in a fish bowl, naked on a table, dissected not by the coroner but by everybody to everybody's likings hoping to ignite evolving processes and setting sparkles of light of truths to be discovered and explored.<br /> <br /> There's not one day that I don't stand amazed, Michael.
<br />Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.<br />
<br /> <br />Purelove If you are referring to my post you can simply say it.. I did say a theory and yes it is far fetched. I was just thinking. No need to get upset, and I have learned plenty.. I wonder of some of us have learned anything, every person they see they think it is Michael in disguise or Paris in desguise. please give me a break.. They haven't learned anything. thanks for your response.
<br />Murray is definitely in on the hoax and helping Michael, not trying to kill him. That is a far fetched theory and also underestimating Michael in my humble opinion. He planned this hoax for decades and thinking 'Murray was about to kill him and he escaped' makes him look like a vulnerable, weak person. Is this what people see in Michael? And I do not also understand how they believe Michael prepared ALL these huge things just in a couple days! This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.<br />
<br /> <br />Purelove If you are referring to my post you can simply say it.. I did say a theory and yes it is far fetched. I was just thinking. No need to get upset, and I have learned plenty.. I wonder of some of us have learned anything, every person they see they think it is Michael in disguise or Paris in desguise. please give me a break.. They haven't learned anything. thanks for your response. <br />
<br /><br />I wasn't talking ONLY about you all4love but I was referring to everyone on the forum who thinks that Murray was trying to kill Michael. You are NOT the only one who is writing about this "theory". You can believe that when I want to adress someone directly, I quote that person's post. And still you are not the only one who wrote about that theory on this thread. So, instead of mentioning everyone one by one, I preferred to use "people" for all of them. This is my choice. And yes, it is still my opinion that if people is still thinking about a possibility of this theory, Murray was trying to kill Michael but he escaped, they learned NOTHING from this hoax. If I need to say something personally to you, I see you making a step forward, you seem to start understanding the reasons of the hoax but then suddenly you make 10 steps backwards, forget about it all and start thinking that this is a short term plan and Michael escaped from Murray etc. Don't do this. Keep on moving forward not backward. Just a friendly advice from me to you.
<br />This is his master plan, this is his SHOW, this is his REAL LIFE MOVIE. If you can not see it, I don't know if you learned a thing from this hoax. This is a perfect plan which could be be planned by a perfectionist like Michael and he planned it for decades. I hope people stop to underestimate him and what he is capable of soon.<br />
I wrote about this in another thread but I would like to write here as well. This can be a far fetched theory but I found it interesting. It's about the belly button issue. In the first autopsy pictures of Michael that we saw, the belly button was not visible. Like this one:<br /><br /><br />But in the next pictures, the belly button is there, it is more visible.<br /><br /><br /><br />And then we had this article:<br /><br />
[size=12pt]Michael Jackson Was 'A Bit Of An Alien'<br /><br />Rashida Jones - the daughter of music producer Quincy Jones - has revealed she has many fond memories of Michael Jackson but accepts he was a ''bit of an alien'' to most people.<br /><br />Michael Jackson was "an alien", according to Quincy Jones' daughter Rashida Jones. ...[/size]
<br /><br />You can read the rest of the article here:http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/topic,20871.0.html<br /><br />This brought my mind about the FAKE alien autopsy. The aliens had no belly buttons.<br /><br /><br /><br />[size=14pt]The Story Behind the 'Alien Autopsy' Hoax[/size]<br /><br />Britain's Manchester Evening News (April 6, 2006) termed it [size=12pt]a hoax that "fooled the world."[/size] Well, not exactly: Skeptical Inquirer magazine was on to the 1995 "Alien Autopsy" film from the outset. But now the reputed creator of the fake extraterrestrial corpse used for the "autopsy" has publicly confessed.<br /><br />The film—purporting to depict the post mortem of an extraterrestrial who died in a UFO crash at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947—was part of a "documentary" that aired on the Fox television network. Skeptics and many UFOlogists quickly branded the affair a hoax.<br /><br />Among numerous observations, they noted that the film bore a bogus, non-military codemark, that the injuries sustained by the extraterrestrial were inconsistent with an air crash, and that the person performing the autopsy held the scissors like a tailor rather than a pathologist (who is trained to place his middle or ring finger in the bottom of the scissors hole and use his forefinger to steady the blades).<br /><br />http://www.livescience.com/742-story-alien-autopsy-hoax.html<br /><br />You can find many other articles about the alien autopsy hoax on the net. But what I'm trying to say is, Michael's pic without a belly button and just a day after that an article where Quincy Jones' daughter says Michael was an 'alien' can not be a coincidence but it was made on purpose to show us the autopsy is another FAKE, another HOAX within the hoax! It's like saying; Michael's autopsy is just like the alien autopsy which is a HOAX!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br />How come we put a single person on trial because he was involved in a situation with one VIP person, yet forget about questioning and putting those sitting in positions we elected them into on a pillory when they continue to neglect, forget and disrespect the many entrusted persons relying on them?<br />...<br /><br />This trial is not only about Michael Jackson as a person.<br />This is performance art in a dimension that was never seen on earth before.<br />Michael has dedicated himself to perform as a sacrificial lamb in order to unveil the truth about our reality, hypocrisy and virulent gamblers.<br />These are indeed "pictures at an exhibition<br />
<br /><br /> /bravo/ I totally agree.<br /><br /><br /><br />We have heard testimonies from two medical doctors now, a cardiologist and now a sleep specialist. Both have specified and re-emphasized the STANDARD OF CARE for the patient. <br /><br />The first issue is, that in spite of some experimental research carried out in 2010 on the use of propofol to treat insomnia, no DECENT doctor would administer propofol in a home setting single handedly, without the use of accurate monitoring and resuscitation equipment.<br /><br />Dr Klein’s name has been mentioned several times yesterday along with a few other doctors (Dr Adams, Dr Metzer..), and it has also been insinuated that Michael was taught how to self administer by German doctors. It’s being suggested that other doctors have administered propofol to Michael before. One other thing that does not make sense is WHY Murray ordered propofol by the crate loads IF he was trying to wean Michael off (according to his audio testimony). It makes no sense.<br /><br />When doctors forget the Hippocratic Oath that they have sworn to keep and are blinded by their greed for $$$$$, what happens to the vulnerable patient who has entrusted him/herself into their care? <br /><br />However it seems that these doctors have sold their souls to the devil for money, and tossed the Oath out of the window and so lack personal integrity. <br /><br />There are a few versions of the Hippocratic Oath which you can read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath<br /><br />Here is the modern version:<br /><br />
[size=12pt]I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:<br /><br />I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.<br /><br />I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.<br /><br />I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.<br /><br />I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.<br />(Murray did NOT call 911 when he clearly needed the help of the paramedics)<br /><br />I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.<br /><br />I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.<br /><br />I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.<br /><br />(It seems some doctors would prefer to cultivate a drug dependency, and therefore have no intention of curing, to ensure that the $$$$ keep rolling in.) :x<br /><br />[size=12pt]I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.<br /><br />If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.[/size]
<br /><br />A patient comes to a doctor vulnerable and to take advantage of their predicament for greed of money and personal gain is pure evil. In keeping the patient “sick”, these doctors not only drain the life of their patients but also their money. So I'm of the opinion that these very detailed testimonies tie in with the purpose of the sting and shows us against whom it is directed at. Murray portrays perfectly that kind of doctors so far. <br /><br />ps: Dr Nader Kamangar has officially renamed Dr Murray, Dr “Merry” LOL!!! I know it’s just the pronunciation but it’s funny! Dr Merry will probably have a “Merry” Christmas because he is NOT guilty! Or perhaps he is “Merry” because he drinks a lot of wine... suspicious// .. as long as he doesn’t drink propofol!! :roll: <br /><br />Merry Christmas in advance to Dr WhoDunnit!<br /><br /><br /><br />"Exterrrrrrmiinaaaate"<br /><br /> <br /><br />
<br /><br />Purelove I was coming here to make a comment and then noticed your post. Well said! <br /><br />So I don't have to make two post I'll just post my thoughts here: <br />Sorry I don't mean to come out harsh but this is something I stayed up all night thinking about. By all means I am ready for the bashing and degrading comments that I am sure are to come but before people start typing just think about it for a few minutes. <br /><br />People can't have it both way! Either that's Michael dead on the autopsy table or this is a hoax. If we are to think that it is truly Michael (dead) then we have to dismiss everything else that we have learned in the last two years and chalk all of the "coincidences" that we have seen/heard to just that coincidences. All of the numbers are just written in the stars and the family members who have made "oops" slip ups are just greedy people who don't give a crap about Michael besides what they can get out of this mostly being money with all of the interviews and book deals that have gone on in the last 2+ years. We then would also have to accept that Michael was, as Purelove said, a vulnerable weak man who was so dependent on drugs which would make TII a complete fabrication to our minds of what we thought was a healthy Michael ready to rock the stage for all to see. <br /><br />To take it a step further we would then need to just accept that all of the inconsistencies that we have seen in the last 2 years (too many to count) and everyone who has opened up their mouth needs to see a doctor about memory loss because they can't remember what they have said from one interview to another.<br /><br />To take it one step further, Back, TS and Front then all have more then enough time on their hands and should seek immediate mental help for all of the post that they have done which in turn would mean that we too need to seek mental help because of the chain reaction. Meaning TS or Front post on this board and then the research starts and all of the connections that can be made are just the draw of luck. If that is truly the case then there is a whole lot of luck in the air and I should take a chance at playing the lottery. <br /><br />Is it that "coincidental" that Michael had this in the making for years and it just so happens that Murray comes along to kill him (hired or not) and everything just happens to line up with everything Michael had been working on to begin with? If we think that Murray was trying (again hired or not) to kill Michael and he found out and was able to escape then the sentence before has no standing and it again was just a coincidence that everything in the past connects and we should all quit and call it a day. <br /><br />With that being said, I feel better thank you for letting me get that out.<br />
<br /><br />LOL! lolol/ I applaud you! /bravo/<br /><br />This is how I feel: party/<br /><br />LOVE YOU ALL! bearhug
@ Purelove and Souza I think you meant to comment on my post. Well, first, I did not say MJ planned hoax last minute, if you read to the end, I said since MJ carefully planned hoax , he could think of using real corpse to be taken to UCLA, that has vitiligo and MJ look.<br /> <br />I have a hard time to believe that the CM defense team wasting time in the court defending their client who is in hoax and did not commit involuntary manslaughter. Also I won't believe that court is a circus. Maybe it looks like it from the far, but not form what I see .<br />OK, tell me now, what and who is a target in this hoax? What is going to happen in the scenario you believe in, who and what is going to be exposed?<br />Do you have an answer, I'll take it, give me reasonable fact, not just generalized "this is huge". OK, it is huge....what is it?<br />I think the hoax is about to reveal who wanted to kill Michael for years and related reasons. For that matter, we have to have an object who tried to commit the act,and that is Conrad Murray. I don't get how you don't see this obvious fact.<br /> <br />
Just a thought..to ones of us that think Murray, is an actor and is helping Michael, well, then there are more helping Michael .. in on it. There are "patients" in his offices being filmed and interviewed. They are on HLN too and out in front of the courthouse. Are these too actors??? Then the list of people in the know are growing once again....<br />Now, if this were a sting, these people could work for the gov...along with the sting. (but that body prob exists with this theory) Those patients are very well spoken and without accents. They are suppose to be people without "means"...to me when I saw them their voices didn't match their persona.<br /><br />
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."