Okay,<br /><br />So here's MY personal take of why I'm leaning towards dummy.<br /><br /><br />I question Michael's ability to breathe while wrapped in the sheets for one. Not saying it isn't possible, it just seems extreme. The second is the footage of the body being handled in the van. To me that seems pretty rough especially in combination with being wrapped in the sheets (limited breathing). Michael is not some 20year old, big meaty football player....he's pretty frail, so the injury potential seems high in this scenario.<br /><br />Now true enough he could easily be medicated with a muscle relaxant or something to get through it(cause lord knows given the right medication you could take a direct hit from an gorilla and not feel it!), but to me it just seems like an unnecessary extreme.<br /> :-\
Snoopy I agree that Michael is not a bulked-out guy but he's not made of crystal either. The guy who lifted Michael probably said "gonna lift/move you now" or something so Michael was ready for it. And it's not like he threw him across the room - he was shifted about a foot, maybe less? <br /><br />Small little holes could've pierced the sheet for easier breathing and also be not visible. A live Michael also explains why they didn't use a body bag, plus it's a clue for people like us (hoaxers). Also, having Michael there instead of a dummy means no need for disposal (like you said) and also eliminates the risk of anyone not in on it discovering the dummy before it can be disposed of.
<br />Snoopy I agree that Michael is not a bulked-out guy but he's not made of crystal either. The guy who lifted Michael probably said "gonna lift/move you now" or something so Michael was ready for it. And it's not like he threw him across the room - he was shifted about a foot, maybe less? <br /><br />Small little holes could've pierced the sheet for easier breathing and also be not visible. A live Michael also explains why they didn't use a body bag, plus it's a clue for people like us (hoaxers). Also, having Michael there instead of a dummy means no need for disposal (like you said) and also eliminates the risk of anyone not in on it discovering the dummy before it can be disposed of.<br />
<br /><br />True, very true. :?<br /><br />I added your airholes idea to the outline (I hope you don't mind)...that never occured to me <br /><br />Score 1 for LIVE MJ <br /><br />Now if I could just wrap my mind around the roughness...
<br />Just a quick thought I had whilst outside gardening which leads from bec's post above....<br /><br />Judge Pastor deliberately focussed our attention to the date June 9th 2009 when he read out the Jury Forms during the verdict. Remember the Jury had written the incorrect "death" date as June 9th 2009 and crossed it out with "squiggly lines"and then written June 25th 2009. I think he did this for a VERY good reason......to make sure we remembered that significant date again.<br /><br />As we know June 9th 2009 was when MJ apparently finished filming the "top secret" Dome Project at Culver studios. ...wasn't it suggested ages ago that Dome project stood for Death of Me !!!<br /><br />We know that the scenes for Thriller, Smooth Criminal etc were filmed during the Dome Project. Perhaps as well as these, all the images, footage, photos etc we have seen from his "death" day were actually filmed too, using green screens and sets during this time of the Dome Project and released as needed. I am sure TS talked about this ages ago in another level.<br /><br />Now how this works in with if an ambulance really went to Carolwood Drive and then to UCLA on June 25th to make the day more "real"and also WHAT/WHO exactly went in the ambulance and how that then ties in with who is in on it and who isn't......well....I have to think more about that whilst ripping up weeds.<br />
<br /><br />OK... I'm going to stop here with Adi before I get totally overwhelmed. <br />Hi TS; I knew you would post on 11-11-11 /bravo/ bearhug<br /><br />BeTheChange, PureLove, Bec & ImConvinced have all had great posts. I quoted many in a draft on 11-11-11 that I was going to come back to and post on pg three... Then the weekend happened and you are all on 14! OMG! I'm exhausted mentally, physically & spiritually at this point so forgive me for not reading to the end before posting. I agree with Adi. (weed pulling is indeed good for the soul!) Whether there's a body or no body; (cancer patient), the ambulance picture, court pictures, 911 call, MJ court recording, "That day and the other d...ummm ummm" [size=12pt]THIS IS ALL PART OF THE DOME PROJECT. [/size]<br />The Illusion was now set to begin 6-25-09: stage the bedroom, prepare the body etc...lights on all night.<br />We then had a Live Action Day with MJ directing behind the scenes; "Action" for all the realism & media frenzy needed in a celebrity death. ie Ambulance at Carlwood, hospital vigils, fans. <br />Hoax: YES. <br />Sting: YES. <br />FBI: YES mj_bad/<br /><br />L.O.V.E. TO ALL bearhug
Hi MsTrinity...I've missed your gentle spirit around here the last 10 pages or so lol. Glad to see you back bearhug<br /><br />As for the weeds....if you can't pull 'em, smoke 'em <br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br /><br />
<br />Why not take a police car then?<br /><br />Or hop in the fire truck after everyone raced off after the ambulance?<br /><br />Or one of those undercover police and government cars that are souped up Impalas or Mustangs with the stealth (interior) lights on it. They have right of way too and would attract much less attention then a big box ambulance. Every time the gates opened, they risk one of the "extras" witnessing 2 ambulances inside the gate, then everyone would know there were two departures to watch for. It's hard not to notice an ambulance. They are designed to attract attention for high visibility on the roadway. On the other hand, those undercover police and government cars are inconspicuous and still have emergency lights to stop traffic and move as an emergency vehicle on the road. One could easily be parked in the back garage (that has been depicted in pics on the net since the back gate was discovered in 2009), waiting for MJ to hop in and zip off, undercover of massive ambulance backing out the gate distraction. <br /><br />Why do it the hardest way possible when there's such an easy alternative?<br />
<br /><br />I understand what you are trying to say, you make sense, but those types of police cars do not have tinted windows, anyone could see inside.. Unless they would put Michael in the trunk lol...I guess with the ambulance he is in the back and no one can see inside the ambulance.. More protection.. Is there anything easy in this hoax dear Bec? Nope.. My brains are fried lately.. lol... <br />
<br /><br />????????????????<br /><br />That type has ALL the windows tinted. I'm thinking the super stealth speed trap cop cars on the freeways in the US. Plain black or blue mustangs or impalas with super window tint that sit and wait in nondescript roadside places and leap out at you when you go 110 down the interstate on your way home at night. They're not uncommon and they're perfect for the job.<br />
<br /><br />You should see the ones in Texas... CHARGERS. All blacked out windows, black ghost paint. They will nail your ass. 8) lolol/
<br />Hi MsTrinity...I've missed your gentle spirit around here the last 10 pages or so lol. Glad to see you back bearhug<br /><br />As for the weeds....if you can't pull 'em, smoke 'em <br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Awww thank you for the love. bearhug<br />I know you meant it only as a joke; but I take smoking Mary-J very seriously because of personal family issues over the last seven yrs with my son; also named Michael. He's 18 and almost landed his ass in jail earlier this yr for possession & distribution on school grounds. The "medicinal" marijuana people hang out dealing in the park next to the High School while handing out their propaganda about how natural it all is. BS. I've been to HELL & back the last seven yrs between Texas & Colorado with this; and now I finally have my son back. :-\ I thank God every day but struggle in fear waiting for the other shoe to drop... I saw him go from a very loving, happy, sensitive kid to... angry, violent, abusive, antisocial teenager always on the run disappearing for days. No one can tell me pot ISN'T addictive or changes a person...<br /> bearhug
<br />Snoopy - it looks like the guy picked up the "body" with one hand...<br />
<br /><br />Okay, so I wasn't imagining it! :shock:<br />
<br /><br />He did it with relative ease too...<br />
<br /><br /><br />The round part looked like a head right?....it was so stiff...but light weight....OMG, I think we might have the body question answered. /woohoo/<br />
<br /><br />Sorry if im late, im catching up on the last few pages. But woaaahhhh :shock: :shock: :shock: afraid/ /bravo/
@MsTrinity...I'm sorry to hear about your struggles but glad that you got your son back. He is definitely blessed to have a mom like you...many, unfortunately, throw in the towel. God bless you!<br /><br />To everyone else...sorry for drifting off-topic.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
<br />I think we're a majority in agreement on the ambulance sequence. <br /><br />- ambulance photo is fake<br />- only one ambulance @Carolwood<;br />- ambulance footage was filmed 6/25 (albeit slightly edited) <br />- ambulance did arrive @ UCLA 6/25 <br /><br />THE BODY<br /><br />We seem to be split over whether or not the body is actually MJ or a dummy.<br /><br /><br /><br />Major issue of contention for this: Why where the white sheets used instead of a body bag?<br /><br /><br /><br /> LIVE MJ vs DUMMY<br /><br /><br /><br />Dummy:<br /><br />Pros:<br /><br />- can be a replica of Michael (realism/less suspicion)<br />- can endure rough handling (limit the number of people in on the hoax)<br />- could have been placed in a real body bag (unless the chemical/materials had to have air)<br />- possibly used for autopsy photos<br />- point of reference for EMS, UCLA Doctors, Coroner<br />- enable Michael to not have to be physically be present <br />- utilized in the Memorial and Burial services<br /><br /><br />Cons:<br /><br />- acquisition (creation could raise suspicion)<br />- storage (Carolwood, UCLA, Coroners)<br />- disposal* (removal from Coroners)<br />- discovery (close examination)<br /><br /><br /><br />LiveMJ:<br /><br /><br />Pros:<br /><br />- is actually himself (realism)<br />- control over events (directing capability)<br />- point of reference for EMS, UCLA Doctors, Coroner<br />- does not require storage <br /><br /><br /><br />Cons:<br /><br />- enduring rough handling<br />- inability to breathe under sheets (* airholes possibly added to assist - ANDREA)<br />- risk being seen moving<br />- possible discovery upon escape (from Coroners)<br /><br /><br />Also note the following key points to consider:<br /><br />Use of white sheets versus of a body bag;<br /><br />- so Michael can potentially breathe (LIVE MJ)<br />- prevent chemicals/materials from potential "breakdown" (DUMMY)<br />- to match with autopsy photos created (LIVE MJ AND DUMMY)<br /><br /><br /> Disposal & Escape;<br /><br />- body was claimed/removed by the family to Forest Lawn (disposal from Coroners)(DUMMY)<br />- body possibly used for Memorial, Burial, Tomb (DUMMY)<br />- no clues offered regarding escape method after Coroners (LIVE MJ)<br />- no body needed for Memorial, Burial, Tomb; closed casket (LIVE MJ)<br /><br /><br /><br />There are obviously benefits and drawbacks to both, but which option seems most credible? <br /><br /><br /><br />*If there are other points I forgot to mention, please feel free to add it as it may help to come to a conclusion.<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />For DUMMY to be used, Michael needed the WHOLE LA COUNTY and its authorities include in hoax so they would " revive" and move around dummy pretending it is real Michael. How much possibility this version does have??? I think- a little. Too risky to keep it look real, to keep secrecy, too expensive, etc.<br /><br />IMO, ill and already dead patient who looked like Michael, could be wearing a Michael Jackson disguise, was taken to the hospital. <br /><br />Real Michael taken to the hospital aslo another version , but there will be again too many people involved for MJ to successfully escpae with family help. In this case, right there hoax/sting started, but then it does not add up with long time hoax plan. <br />So, to figure this difficult puzzle out, we should let go one of the considered options we have had. We can't make all versions fit one another and design our own version of hoax.............because it is no possible. At last, there is only one version of hoax is happening.
<br /> :shock: Oh Holy $@&;%! <br /><br />Okay...I need to see if anyone else sees this....check the video @ 4:40.<br /><br />The deputy inside the van lifts something....is that what I think it is?????<br /><br /><br /> /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Doesn't it look like the right foot wiggles at 0:27, after the stretcher hits that bump?
I do not believe there was a need for MJ to be in the helicopter himself, wrapped in sheets, this is almost as horrid as the corpse theory. And how this would serve the hoax better? It could have been a dummy without raising suspicions.<br /><br />I mean I don't see the necessity of being MJ himself in the helicopter. <br /><br /><br />
Another thing I find difficult to accept is that the paramedics are in the hoax - because I saw their testimonies and at least one of them (the white one, I don't remember his name) seemed very sincere to me, not acting, not lying.<br /><br />Not that I would be good in judging people's behavior, but that was my impression about him.
<br />I do not believe there was a need for MJ to be in the helicopter himself, wrapped in sheets, this is almost as horrid as the corpse theory. And how this would serve the hoax better? It could have been a dummy without raising suspicions.<br /><br />I mean I don't see the necessity of being MJ himself in the helicopter.<br />
<br /><br />i agree with you, i don't see they purpose, maybe they brought a corpse to the coroner who was at the UCLA already ( a lot of people die at a hospital), so it wasen't MJ or a Dummy. And the ones in the hoax ( maybe only the doctor?) say that it was a distraction for the papparazzi and all the fans, to not been followed because of chaotic things that could been happening. therefor the ones who brought that body to the helicopter are in but not Hoax INN! theyre only thinking that they have distracted the paps"and the fans. so no dummy or live MJ have to be brought into this event. ( maybe to far fetched but this couldn't leave my brian so i have to share this with you all, and i wanted to know what you think about that?)
Thanks for the shout out @MsTrinity333-Although I am not sure which comments of mine your referring to. It can't be any in this thread because this is my first comment here. <br /><br /><br />@TS-Since the thread went up I have been reading along. <br />Seriously I feel like I am in Ground Hog's day movie <br />with a little bit of this attitude: rr/ <br /><br /><br />
@I';m_convinced lol! I've been experiencing "Groundhog Day" moments in this thread too.....I feel like I'm back in 2009.....I wonder if there is something big have we missed?<br /><br />
If MJ jumped out of the Coroner's van - it means he MUST HAVE BEEN in the van. We saw him dressed in a kind of coat or something while jumping - so either he was dressed up while laying in the sheets, or he was naked (as in the ambulance photo) but he quickly dressed up, or there was a dummy on the stretcher but Michael just took a ride on the van :P<br /><br />Or:<br />he jumped from this van "the other day" in order to make the "autopsy photo" :P<br /><br />Or: this "jump-out-of-the-van-video" was fake.<br /><br />(scratches her head)
<br />@Andrea, Yes I've heard that from people who live in the area, so the subliminal message of "everything is trash" is likely as it was an obvious theme.<br /><br />@Snoopy I saw that, but the sheets looked almost crumpled up? <br /> There were also too many people creating distraction, the "body" looked flat and stiff, but light. An illusion definitely took place.<br />
<br /><br />Oh yeah Definitely!<br /><br /> I don't care how strong you are...you are not "one arm" lifting 136lb man!!!!....or even 110lbs. :?<br />
<br /><br />I don't remember seeing that guy one arm the 'body' before but I must've seen that footage a hundred times. Weird. Dummy? It looks like he lifted it from the head/chin area...<br />
What the heck,that most definitely was a dummy.Either that or a stiff corpse.U cant lift a 130 something lb man with one arm,no freaking way .Hell u cant lift a 40lb dog with one arm.Dummy,no doubt.U guys r great with ur detective skills.<br />
<br /><br />So what does this mean? <br /><br />Clearly it was a dummy/doll/whatever fake body thingy.....<br /><br />Does this mean the helicopter transport was a decoy?<br /><br />Did Michael stay on the helicopter? (was that him being unstrapped mid flight?)<br /><br /><br />....sigh....more questions than answers...<br />
<br /><br />I think it was Michael himself under the sheet getting into the helicopter. And they changed and put a dummy under the sheet. That's what we see in the van moved by that guy with a single hand. Probably MJ used the helicopter to go somewhere else. The van was a good distraction. people and the media were following the van so Michael flew with the helicopter to the destination he wanted.<br />
<br /><br />But what for?<br /><br />The media followed the van until it went into the parking garage. So what if they follow? Let them follow. A gate closes in the garage and prevents them from following anyway. Besides, if MJ was so concerned about the media following the coroner van... why did he have the helicopter unload his "body" into a van to be driven anywhere? Why did he arrange for his "body" to be helicoptered directly to a location where it could be brought inside through the roof entrance, and transported later that evening when the whole world wasn't glued to their TV screens watching it all unfold? Perhaps while Jermaine was doing his press conference and we were watching that, if privacy and secrecy was desired... if MJ needed to "escape", again, he had many better, more secure, less risky ways to do it, that didn't involve a switch-a-roo done on live feed, David Coperfield style. <br /><br />It serves no purpose at that point, for MJ to switch places with a dummy. The dummy would have to be on the helicopter already, necessitating the helicopter pilot and crewman to be in on it anyway. So this dummy would be used only to fool a couple guys fooling around for a min in the coroner van? It's not to fool the coroner we have already determined and collectively agreed upon. I don't see the point in bringing the helicopter guys in on it, as well as having a perfect MJ replica floating around out there (had to be loaded onto the helicopter at some point) just waiting for the wrong set of eyes to happen upon it (automatic jig's up! time), for the sole and specific purpose of fooling a couple of guys who handle it while wrapped in a sheet for :04 seconds.<br /><br />I believe MJ could indeed play dead for that long. I believe I could so I believe anyone could who really wanted to. Remember being a kid and playing dead? It's not that hard for short periods of time. Who knows, those couple of guys might be in on it anyway. IF the FBI is involved, they probably have something to do with supplying the helicopter. Their guys don;t even have to know however. A helicopter pilot isn't going to monkey with a corpse in the back (he's flying the helicopter) and his crewman is hanging out the bloody door the whole ~5 min flight. These are the last guys who are likely to take a peak. But again, go ahead and peak, it's really MJ <br />
<br /><br />I still do not believe the thing (body or dummy) that was loaded into the helicopter is the same one with the one they took off the helicopter. There is a huge difference btw the two. It wasn't necessary for Michael to be in that scene. That could be anyone who was under the sheet getting into the helicopter. It was probably to give us the clue by showing us the moving body inside the helicopter. I don't know with what other purposes would the helicopter fly with open doors. <br /><br />I believe it was Michael himself under the sheet and moved inside the helicopter on purpose and then he used helicopter to fly somewhere else. He didn't need to stay in the van. As I wrote before the van was a good distraction for the media, so he could travel without people noticing him. In this case, the people inside the helicopter and the van are of course in on the hoax, as well as the DA and the doctors in the hospital. Using a dummy is not for fooling someone but it was for distraction while he was flying somewhere else.
<br />Hi MsTrinity...I've missed your gentle spirit around here the last 10 pages or so lol. Glad to see you back bearhug<br /><br />As for the weeds....if you can't pull 'em, smoke 'em <br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Good one Bethechange...I agree!!!! Anything to, "open your mind"! lolol/ penguin/<br /><br /> bearhug for EVERYONE!!! I LOVE YOU ALL!!!!!
And if Michael never left Carolwood, remember that Janet go house the day 27 according to this news, enter into the house before the police, why ?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Janet Jackson arrives at Michael Jackson's LA home<br />Story Published: Jun 27, 2009 at 10:20 AM PST<br /><br />LOS ANGELES (AP) - Janet Jackson arrived at her brother Michael Jackson's Holmby Hills estate Saturday, where moving vans arrived earlier in the day.<br /><br />Janet Jackson, wearing dark glasses, drove up in a Bentley and went directly to the estate. About eight movers had taken dollies and packing equipment through the gates. It wasn't immediately known what was being taken out.<br /><br />Most of Michael Jackson's family members had gathered in their Encino compound, where they are contemplating funeral arrangements and caring for his three children. They are feeling confused, upset and angry by the lack of information about those who were around the pop superstar in his final days, a person close to the family told The Associated Press.<br /><br />Jackson's family wants to know more specifics about what role AEG, the concert promoter that was staging his 50-date concert series at London's 02 Arena, was playing in his life, said the person, who requested anonymity because of the delicate nature of the situation. They also want to know more about the role of his advisers and representatives, who they believe were put in place by the promoter.<br /><br />AEG spokeswoman Natalie Whorms in London had no comment Saturday.<br /><br />Jackson never communicated to his family who he had in place to handle his business affairs, the person said, adding that they were told by the singer's phalanx of advisers that he likely had a will, but it may be many years old. The family is distrustful of what they are being told - but they are determined to find out more, the person said.<br /><br />"There are decisions going down without the family being in the loop; it's becoming an issue," the person said.<br /><br />Randy Phillips, AEG Live president and chief executive, said earlier Friday that it was Jackson who insisted that Dr. Conrad Murray, a financially troubled cardiologist who was with the entertainer when he collapsed Thursday, be put on the tour payroll.<br /><br />"As a company, we would have preferred not having a physician on staff full-time because it would have been cheaper without the hotels and travel, but Michael was insistent that he be hired," Phillips said. "Michael said he had a rapport with him."<br /><br />Jackson collapsed Thursday at his rented home in Los Angeles. Police seized Murray's car in search of evidence, but have insisted that the doctor has been cooperative and do not consider him a criminal suspect.<br /><br />Records reveal years of financial troubles for Murray, who practices medicine in California, Nevada and Texas; his Nevada medical practice, Global Cardiovascular Associates, was slapped with more than $400,000 in court judgments, and he faces at least two other pending cases and several tax liens.<br /><br />The person close to the family said that while there were reports that the singer was distant from his family, Jackson spoke with his mother, Katherine, quite regularly and his father, Joe, had seen his son shortly before his death. His other eight siblings, including fellow superstar Janet, may not have talked to him recently but were not estranged.<br /><br />Much of the family was holed up Friday inside the Jackson family's Encino compound, including his three children, according to the person, who described them as doing "pretty good."<br /><br />"I don't think it's fully set in yet," the person said.<br /><br />The pop star left behind three children: Michael Joseph Jackson Jr., known as Prince Michael, 12; Paris Michael Katherine Jackson, 11; and Prince Michael II, 7. The elder children were born to ex-wife Deborah Rowe, while the youngest is his biological son, born to a surrogate mother.<br /><br />Rowe and Jackson married in 1996 and divorced in 1999.<br /><br />No family members were present in the mansion when Jackson died Thursday, the person close to the family said. In the 911 call released by fire officials Friday, an unidentified caller tells a dispatcher that Jackson's doctor is performing CPR.<br /><br />Asked by the dispatcher whether anyone saw what happened, the caller answers: "No, just the doctor, sir. The doctor has been the only one there."<br /><br />Coroner's officials said they released Jackson's body to his family late Friday night. The family is still trying to determine what kind of memorial to have for Jackson and when, and are debating between the idea of having a private ceremony or a grand celebration open to the public, the person close to the family said.<br /><br />Jackson appeared to have suffered a heart attack, another person with knowledge of the situation who was not authorized to speak publicly and requested anonymity told the AP on Friday. A heart attack is a blocking of the arteries that deprives the heart of adequate blood and can cause cardiac arrest.<br /><br />Jackson's brother Jermaine said Thursday that it was believed the pop singer went into cardiac arrest, an interruption of the normal heartbeat that can be caused by factors other than heart attack.<br /><br />The Los Angeles County coroner's office, which completed its autopsy Friday, said there were no signs of foul play or trauma, but determining the cause of death will require further tests that will take six to eight weeks.<br /><br />Phillips said AEG Live held multiple insurance policies covering cancellation of the shows, and that some time in February Jackson submitted to several hours of physicals that the insurance underwriter insisted upon, and that Jackson passed them all.<br /><br />"We had pretty good coverage, but a lot of it is going to depend on the toxicology results," he said. "We need to know what the cause of death was."<br /><br />---<br /><br />AP Writers Beth Harris and Mike Blood and AP Global Media Services Production Manager Nico Maounis in Los Angeles and Shawn Pogatchnik in London contributed to this report.<br />http://www.kcby.com/news/national/49342257.html<br /><br /><br /><br />
<br />@Andrea, Yes I've heard that from people who live in the area, so the subliminal message of "everything is trash" is likely as it was an obvious theme.<br /><br />@Snoopy I saw that, but the sheets looked almost crumpled up? <br /> There were also too many people creating distraction, the "body" looked flat and stiff, but light. An illusion definitely took place.<br />
<br /><br />Oh yeah Definitely!<br /><br /> I don't care how strong you are...you are not "one arm" lifting 136lb man!!!!....or even 110lbs. :?<br />
<br /><br />I don't remember seeing that guy one arm the 'body' before but I must've seen that footage a hundred times. Weird. Dummy? It looks like he lifted it from the head/chin area...<br />
What the heck,that most definitely was a dummy.Either that or a stiff corpse.U cant lift a 130 something lb man with one arm,no freaking way .Hell u cant lift a 40lb dog with one arm.Dummy,no doubt.U guys r great with ur detective skills.<br />
<br /><br />So what does this mean? <br /><br />Clearly it was a dummy/doll/whatever fake body thingy.....<br /><br />Does this mean the helicopter transport was a decoy?<br /><br />Did Michael stay on the helicopter? (was that him being unstrapped mid flight?)<br /><br /><br />....sigh....more questions than answers...<br />
<br /><br />I think it was Michael himself under the sheet getting into the helicopter. And they changed and put a dummy under the sheet. That's what we see in the van moved by that guy with a single hand. Probably MJ used the helicopter to go somewhere else. The van was a good distraction. people and the media were following the van so Michael flew with the helicopter to the destination he wanted.<br />
<br /><br />But what for?<br /><br />The media followed the van until it went into the parking garage. So what if they follow? Let them follow. A gate closes in the garage and prevents them from following anyway. Besides, if MJ was so concerned about the media following the coroner van... why did he have the helicopter unload his "body" into a van to be driven anywhere? Why did he arrange for his "body" to be helicoptered directly to a location where it could be brought inside through the roof entrance, and transported later that evening when the whole world wasn't glued to their TV screens watching it all unfold? Perhaps while Jermaine was doing his press conference and we were watching that, if privacy and secrecy was desired... if MJ needed to "escape", again, he had many better, more secure, less risky ways to do it, that didn't involve a switch-a-roo done on live feed, David Coperfield style. <br /><br />It serves no purpose at that point, for MJ to switch places with a dummy. The dummy would have to be on the helicopter already, necessitating the helicopter pilot and crewman to be in on it anyway. So this dummy would be used only to fool a couple guys fooling around for a min in the coroner van? It's not to fool the coroner we have already determined and collectively agreed upon. I don't see the point in bringing the helicopter guys in on it, as well as having a perfect MJ replica floating around out there (had to be loaded onto the helicopter at some point) just waiting for the wrong set of eyes to happen upon it (automatic jig's up! time), for the sole and specific purpose of fooling a couple of guys who handle it while wrapped in a sheet for :04 seconds.<br /><br />I believe MJ could indeed play dead for that long. I believe I could so I believe anyone could who really wanted to. Remember being a kid and playing dead? It's not that hard for short periods of time. Who knows, those couple of guys might be in on it anyway. IF the FBI is involved, they probably have something to do with supplying the helicopter. Their guys don;t even have to know however. A helicopter pilot isn't going to monkey with a corpse in the back (he's flying the helicopter) and his crewman is hanging out the bloody door the whole ~5 min flight. These are the last guys who are likely to take a peak. But again, go ahead and peak, it's really MJ <br />
<br /><br />I still do not believe the thing (body or dummy) that was loaded into the helicopter is the same one with the one they took off the helicopter. There is a huge difference btw the two. It wasn't necessary for Michael to be in that scene. That could be anyone who was under the sheet getting into the helicopter. It was probably to give us the clue by showing us the moving body inside the helicopter. I don't know with what other purposes would the helicopter fly with open doors. <br /><br />I believe it was Michael himself under the sheet and moved inside the helicopter on purpose and then he used helicopter to fly somewhere else. He didn't need to stay in the van. As I wrote before the van was a good distraction for the media, so he could travel without people noticing him. In this case, the people inside the helicopter and the van are of course in on the hoax, as well as the DA and the doctors in the hospital. Using a dummy is not for fooling someone but it was for distraction while he was flying somewhere else. <br />
<br /><br /><br />I agree, someone was in that bag. Now I found out that the white bag have little holes so you can breathe.. My doctor friend told me, but he did not have time to explain what is the difference between that bag and the plastic bag.. Unless I am speculating here, if someone got shot and killed they are full of blood, I guess they would use the black plastic bag, and someone that dies like normal death they probably use that white bag.. I need to ask him..
<br />I thought we did have a body theory? Mj (and maybe dummy)<br /><br />TS quoted Bec's statement about realism for a reason. So I think MJ was there through it all so that the paramedic's recollection of event's and everyone else involved, would be based on a combination of both: script + alive MJ. This would allow the testimony about the event's of June 25 to be based on much more realistic sounding occurences vs. just script + imagination. <br />I also think the people handling the body would be in the know, for the simple fact of unavoidable risk MJ could be in. As I mentioned before, the FBI/movie aspect would be enough to keep them quiet, and who knows if they weren't FBI and/or actor's themselves. <br /><br />So the just MJ theory can be added to that ambulance theory?<br /><br />On a side note, MJonMind mentioned 'blue shirt guy' and I remember us discussing him in '09; I noticed his hair is the same as the autopsy photo. It's curly and in a ponytail.<br />
<br /><br />TS reminded us about bec's post which was about a real 911 call was made. bec wrote: "It’s very easy to keep up appearances if what you are talking about actually happened. Alvarez’s testimony and statements, Murray’s statements on this documentary, they can be describing an actual staged scene as opposed to just a figment of imagination."<br /><br />I do not think TS was trying to say MJ had to be in every single place himself to make it real. If a real 911 call was made, a real autopsy might have done and this requires a real corpse. A corpse where the doctors worked on for an hour and the autopsy was done on would make everything more real. It's not because these people (doctors or DA) are not in on the hoax BUT like bec says "It’s very easy to keep up appearances if what you are talking about actually happened." That would make them tell the things easily instead of pretending what they could be done, and how they could be done.
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