I think the 'flat board' theory can also be laid to rest (hopefully). It is all about perception and angle.<br /><br />This pic clearly shows that what was loaded into the van was not 'flat'.<br /><br /><br /><br />There is either a dummy, a dead body, or a live body under that sheet.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
<br />I agree with whoever said the overhead view changes the appearance of the "body". I'm so sorry I forgot who it was, it was about 2 pages back and they are right. The full sun reflects off the white surface back at the camera lens and the lens would have difficulty resolving the light balance between it and the background. Because the background is prevalent, the camera adapts as best it can and as a result, the white detail is "lost". The same effect occurs on the van, most notably that the white van appears a white blob, with no small detail to the sides/top. Only stark colors stick out against the white background. Now is it the same body that comes off as goes on? I don't know, but I disagree that comparing the two cameras still frames is proof of a switch.<br /><br />I have seen the dark clothed, presumed, camera man dart into the parking garage behind the coroner van and I agree that this is who, at least is supposed to look like, filmed the van video. Is this scenario the truth? I don't know. I think so, yes, but I'm jumping ahead in levels so I'll stop now and cross that bridge when we get to it.<br />
<br /><br />One reason why artists are wearing black on stage is that black against a black background is protecting (making it difficult for the public to notice details). That's where light and animated background get into their function for a show: to make only see what should be seen in the course of a presentation. <br />Same principle of "hiding" would apply to white against white background.<br /><br />We discussed colours already when discussing the ambulance picture.<br />I guess we could reveal a lot of "how" if we would check optical image communication means like we did it then.<br /><br />If we agree that optical illusion was one of the strategies to pull this off, we could look into how eyes are being tricked and then check which of these tricks have been used in the hoax --> get to know the master behind the camera.<br /><br />Some areas / means of optical illusion:<br />- Motion & Time<br />- Luminance & Contrast<br />- Colour<br />- Geometric- & Angle Illusions<br />- Space, 3D & Size Constancy<br />- Cognitive- / Gestalt Effects<br /><br />Some links to optical illusion phenomena:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion<br />http://www.optillusions.com/<br />http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/<br />http://www.eyetricks.com/illusions.htm<br />http://www.moillusions.com/<br /><br />An article on fooling the brain to reduce arthritis pain by using a mirror optical illusion:<br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/nov/14/mirror-therapy-reduces-pain-arthritis
<br />Scanned a bit some of the posts...<br /><br />
<br />hahaha i LOVE that smiley face!!<br /><br />@ australian mj believer: i hope u are felling better!! lots of love to u<br />
<br /><br />LOL...me too! Good one MissG <br /><br />I wonder if that's what happens to TS when he reads our comments <br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br /><br />P.S. Welcome back Australian MJ BeLIEver...glad you're feeling better ::P
<br />Perhaps my post got lost with everyone posting at the same time. However I would like someone to read this and give their feed back. <br /><br />Do you think those in the helicopter and coroners van had to be in on it if it were truly Michael himself? Here's my question if those people are NOT in on it, if it were Michael then he would be taking a huge risk by just breathing, let alone if he had to cough or sneeze. So does that mean if Michael was in fact in both the helicopter and coroners van that all parties were involved? <br />
<br /><br />I would agree with you. If we go along with "the less people in on it, the better" concept, then I see no reason why we would include the people handling the body/dummy to be in the know. I believe the FBI is involved, so considering this, a scenario could be that they may just have done what they were asked to do without knowing the full story, (i.e that it's a Hoax). It's very possible that these people were told that they were working on a "diversion" operation. A kind of stunt for the media, and while all this show was happening for the world to see, the "real dead body" would be transported secretely to the coroner. <br /><br />So whatever/whoever was on that gurney they would never question if it's a Hoax or not because they would not have been told that it was one. I honestly find it extremely risky that Michael himself was playing the dead. If there really is someone alive playing dead at some point and keeping with my thought that these people do not know about the Hoax, then it must be someone these people know because they know they're part of a diversion tactic but not that Michael Jackson faked his death.<br /><br />Now, for the Hoax to work as it should, I see no specific need for Michael to absolutely be on this gurney. I also see no reason why it should be someone alive playing the dead; for the sake of safety a "high-tech" dummy would be preferable especially when the body was transported while so many eyes were watching. If the supposed alive person playing the dead had an urge to cough or sneeze, it would be disastrous. So for me I say that a dummy has been used for the transportation from UCLA to Coroner's van. Concerning the "dead body moving in helicopter" I really have no idea what happened. Maybe that the dummy came "back" to life. pale/
This can go in circles for weeks. It's too much speculation. 7a is kinda clear, 7b can have different scenarios, all plausible. Just depends on how you look at it. <br /><br />TS? You gonna wait some more days are you?? /overreacting/
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />This can go in circles for weeks. It's too much speculation. 7a is kinda clear, 7b can have different scenarios, all plausible. Just depends on how you look at it. <br /><br />TS? You gonna wait some more days are you?? /overreacting/<br />
<br /><br />Souza please not you, don't overreact, you must keep your head on your shoulders.<br />Let me do it for you, first you have to pull your hair, then scream and finally you overreact /pull hair/ /scream/ /overreacting/ three times it's better /overreacting/ /overreacting/ /overreacting/ so everybody can see you are really desperate :evil:.<br /><br />TS come on, bring the Puzzle2.jpg and let's move on, I don't know if you heard but MJ will be back on November 29 so we must solve everything by than errrr errrr errrr<br /> bearhug
Do we know any additional information about the helicopter. What police agency is in charge of it, how many crew members, when it got to UCLA, etc...?<br /><br />There were two helicopters on the roof that day. I wonder does UCLA have their own rescue/transport chopper or do they always contract with local law enforcement. confused/<br /><br />If BHPD/LAFD could cooperate on the W911 call, why wouldn't LAPD also cooperate on the transport?<br /><br />Perhaps the "movement" inside the helicopter was to unwrap MJ so he could breathe freely before being re-wrapped again. It would also explain why GI Joe was standing in the doorway blocking news choopers view. :?<br /><br /><br />edit*<br /><br />To me the only way they'd have to be "in the know" is if it was LIVE MJ. <br /><br /><br />If it were a dummy it wouldn't matter...so what if they unwrapped it and saw it wasn't MJ, they could be told it was a decoy mission if they ever questioned it. suspicious//
<br />Do we know any additional information about the helicopter. What police agency is in charge of it, how many crew members, when it got to UCLA, etc...?<br /><br />There were two helicopters on the roof that day. I wonder does UCLA have their own rescue/transport chopper or do they always contract with local law enforcement. confused/<br /><br />If BHPD/LAFD could cooperate on the W911 call, why wouldn't LAPD also cooperate on the transport?<br /><br />Perhaps the "movement" inside the helicopter was to unwrap MJ so he could breathe freely before being re-wrapped again. It would also explain why GI Joe was standing in the doorway blocking news choopers view.<br />
<br /><br />I don't know but I do not think it matters that much.<br />In the "helicopter" stage of events things should have been already sorted out IMO.<br /><br />UCLA should have their helicopters but I think I remember that helicopter was not theirs, maybe I am wrong.
LMAO @ all of us <br /><br />TS didn't mention anything about the helicopter or coroner van for Level 7 (not yet anyway)....even in his 'breakdown' of a, b, and c, no helicopter or van is mentioned lol. Yet, a lot of the discussion/thought has been about that (myself included) .<br /><br />We want to figure it ALL out...and the crazy thing is, it drives us mental but we keep doing it, without even being asked to do it! /overreacting/<br /><br />Interesting how our minds work...much like the whole hoax, I think we're making things 'harder' than they need to be or were.<br /><br />But TS...you gotta admit, there's some great imagination, dedication, and 'investigative' skill on this forum ::P. Based on that, can you at least give us a 'nudge' in the right direction?<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
<br />Scanned a bit some of the posts...<br /><br />
<br /><br />LOL Gema so what do you mean with this?<br /><br />Don't you believe any of the theories presented here in a disorganized form?<br />
<br /><br />Well...this is how i feel at this point... :-[<br /><br />"All I know is that to me<br />You look like you're havin' fun"<br /><br />"You spin me right round, baby <br />Right round like a record, baby <br />Right round, round, round"<br /><br />
<br />LMAO @ all of us <br /><br />TS didn't mention anything about the helicopter or coroner van for Level 7 (not yet anyway)....even in his 'breakdown' of a, b, and c, no helicopter or van is mentioned lol. Yet, a lot of the discussion/thought has been about that (myself included) .<br /><br /><br />yes....throw us a bone already.<br /><br />We want to figure it ALL out...and the crazy thing is, it drives us mental but we keep doing it, without even being asked to do it! /overreacting/<br /><br />Interesting how our minds work...much like the whole hoax, I think we're making things 'harder' than they need to be or were.<br /><br />But TS...you gotta admit, there's some great imagination, dedication, and 'investigative' skill on this forum ::P. Based on that, can you at least give us a 'nudge' in the right direction?<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br />
<br /><br />Yes, throw us a bone already /white flag/
Please can I join in? /pull hair/ /scream/ /overreacting/ /overreacting/ /overreacting/ !!!!!<br /><br />TS won't give any winks or hints or nudges until he's good and ready - we know that don't we, yet still we try to coax some response from him!! We're a funny lot! <br />
<br />Thanks for the shout out @MsTrinity333-Although I am not sure which comments of mine your referring to. It can't be any in this thread because this is my first comment here. <br /><br /><br />@TS-Since the thread went up I have been reading along. <br />Seriously I feel like I am in Ground Hog's day movie <br />with a little bit of this attitude: rr/ <br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Great movie : ) I'll get the popcorn....again! <br /><br />Blessings Always
sorry to go back once more. but just quickly for those who believe MJ was 'playing dead' in body bag... isnt that too risky? dont mean to be disrespectful, but what if he fell off the gurney in transit (either in vehicle or transfering him to vehicle) or what if they dropped him. or if there was a car accident while he was in the back. or some kind of factor that would require mj to come out of his 'playing dead' act... that would be too risky... the plan would be foiled and there would be explaining to do. makes me think the body in the bag was a dummy.<br /><br />also agree - cant remember who said it, but the way the body was handled with one arm. that was way too light to be a human body. also cant rememer who said it, but it wasnt handled in a respectful manner. i dunno, IMHO it makes me feel that it was a dummy.<br /><br />therefore that makes me think (again, an opinion for me only not saying this is what actually happened) that if it was a dummy in the bag, there was no cadaver. which means the AR is just a piece of paper a false document. (not really fasle because of "joseph")<br /><br />im not sure if i am making sence. and articulating what i am trying to say...<br /><br />
<br />sorry to go back once more. but just quickly for those who believe MJ was 'playing dead' in body bag... isnt that too risky? dont mean to be disrespectful, but what if he fell off the gurney in transit (either in vehicle or transfering him to vehicle) or what if they dropped him. or if there was a car accident while he was in the back. or some kind of factor that would require mj to come out of his 'playing dead' act... that would be too risky... the plan would be foiled and there would be explaining to do. makes me think the body in the bag was a dummy.<br /><br />[size=12pt]also agree - cant remember who said it, but the way the body was handled with one arm. that was way too light to be a human body. also cant rememer who said it, but it wasnt handled in a respectful manner. i dunno, IMHO it makes me feel that it was a dummy.[/size]<br />therefore that makes me think (again, an opinion for me only not saying this is what actually happened) that if it was a dummy in the bag, there was no cadaver. which means the AR is just a piece of paper a false document. (not really fasle because of "joseph")<br /><br />im not sure if i am making sence. and articulating what i am trying to say...<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />That was me (and Andrea I think) <br /><br />When I very first saw the video footage, it appeared he picked the body up with one hand off the stretcher (and pretty roughly I might add). <br /><br />But when I went back and watched it again, it appears he reached for it with one arm and then grabbed it with two. Another angle shows there was someone in the van lifting the feet. Another angle seems like he was turning the body sideways (not lifting)...<br /><br />Point is, it's like the ambulance footage...depending on the vantage point it looked like the body was handled slightly different ways....a roll, a lift, a foot wiggle etc...<br /><br />Even with all that said....it still looked very rough to me :-\<br /><br /><br />On the surface it would appear that this has nothing to do with the ambulance scenario---but it does...because if a dummy was used, then it would have had to start with the ambulance leaving Carolwood (I doubt a lifesize dummy would be laying around UCLA waiting for hoax day). suspicious//<br /><br />....but that's just me :roll:
@BeTheChange <br />No, he never said anything about what or who *left* UCLA, but isn't that apart of the scenario?<br /><br />Take 2: (lol)<br />#1: Perhaps a live MJ took part in the trip from Carolwood to UCLA for the realism affect. (and he left from there while the rest was a diversion or participated for the *whole* body transfer.)<br /><br />#2: A corpse or dummy was used at the home, then transported to UCLA. (again for realism and MJ left to his hideout from home or he wasn't even there to being with.) <br /><br />#3: Live MJ went to UCLA for both escape and realism reasons / convenience; so he could get to helicopter. (and stayed in heli, as the van was the actual diversion.)<br /><br />#4: Nothing went in ambulance from Carolwood to UCLA.<br /><br /><br />Yes, I still added what could have happened after UCLA. <br /><br />Our option's really consist of 4 things in regards to the trip from Carolwood to UCLA: a corpse, live Michael, dummy or nothing/no one.<br />Why would Michael need to go to UCLA anyway? Maybe a corpse was used, again, for realism.
<br />I think the 'flat board' theory can also be laid to rest (hopefully). It is all about perception and angle.<br /><br />This pic clearly shows that what was loaded into the van was not 'flat'.<br /><br /><br /><br />There is either a dummy, a dead body, or a live body under that sheet.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br />
<br /><br />That is flat. Definitely not the same one we saw before it was put into the helicopter. In the picture I posted, we see both of the bodies or dummies from the sky, from the same level. It's not about perception. Can you imagine how thick it would be if we see the one that was put into the helicopter from this angle of the pic you posted? It would look more thicker. <br /><br />
<br />@Purelove I'd believe a corpse could have been used, if it weren't for some inconsistencies, for example: the paramedic's statement's that don't match and if a real body was used, why wouldn't their stories correlate? Also, I don't understand wasting the coroners time doing a real autopsy, on a real body, only to create a fake AR anyway.<br />
<br /><br />Then why need to waste time by making a real 911 call? I'm not saying a corpse was used definitely. I'm not sure of it. BUT if it is about making it real for people to talk what they did and not pretend later, I say why not. Maybe Michael asked them to create controversy and that is the reason why their stories do not correlate.
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."