<br />There's no need to add MJ beat boxing "keep-a-watchin" to the TII billy jean intro either and they did that. There's no need to add Liberian Girl pics to the memorial slides and on the stage and booklets at the burial. There's no need for all sorts of clues and hints that have been dropped over the years other then to keep us entertained.<br /><br />I think what Andrea and are I trying to say is clues to FBI involvement do not automatically prove the existence of an FBI sting going on. Involvement could be cooperation, clearance, approval, condoning, etc. FBI cooperation, for example, doesn't have to be a sting operation. The FBI do lots of other things besides just sting operations. That's why I was asking if anyone wanted to organize a list of reasons or evidences for the sting theory, because proving it's validity is imperative to the strength of the DWD theory.<br />
<br /><br />Bec - you and Andrea make a great point. I've been thinking about this as well. Just because we see the FBI involvement doesn't mean it's a sting.<br /><br />But what I've been thinking is this - Marlon wore the FBI hat which made us look the direction of FBI (at least it did for me). Was that before or after the files were released? Anyways, it was supposedly Charles Thomson that asked for the FBI files to be released and that has made me wonder for a long time whether he's somehow involved. I know he's somewhat controversial but he's done is part in helping with the vindication efforts.<br /><br />I guess what I've pondered is that maybe the references to the FBI has more to do with the files and 333 pages released, including the intended release date then it does the actual involvement of the organization. <br /><br />If it's a sting maybe the FBI has been investigating those that were trying to exhort money from MJ? I know it's been quiet and Jordan's dad committed suicide (on 11/5??) but maybe the sting/investigation is surrounding the ones that led the efforts of false accusation. I need to get to bed but will think about this even though my efforts will be weak because I don't support the sting theory.<br /><br />Blessings<br />
<br /><br /><br />I can't remember which came first, Marlon's FBI hat or the files released. I thought it was Brian Oxman who requested the FBI release their files on MJ through the Freedom of Information act. He said that as an attorney, he knew the FBI were significantly involved in MJ's life and he put his request in August 2009 to have the files released. He also said he was 99.9% sure the ambulance photo was fake. Those two together indicates the Mr. Oxman is involved in the hoax. The files were meant to be released on 12/21/09 but were delayed a day...what was the reason, weather? 12/21/09 was also the date TIAI was revealed, part 1. <br /><br />I agree that FBI involvement does not absolutely have to involve a sting. But I also see that it very well could, that if the FBI are going to be involved anyways, why not catch some baddies at the same time? Either way, an actual sting is hard to prove with any certainty.
<br />If it's a sting maybe the FBI has been investigating those that were trying to exhort money from MJ? I know it's been quiet and Jordan's dad committed suicide (on 11/5??) but maybe the sting/investigation is surrounding the ones that led the efforts of false accusation. <br />
<br /><br />My thoughts are along these lines as well. The notion that Sneddon 'worked alone' or was even the prime 'instigator' of the charges (which were ONE part of the conspiracy to destroy Mike)...is, IMO, as 'naive' as thinking that Mike would've been able to pull something of this magnitude off with help from only ONE 'key' person in the FBI. Sure, there may be ONE 'key' person in charge of things on the FBI-side of the hoax (and even that is a bit 'naive', IMO, when the enormity of the 'plan' is acknowledged)...but even if, there's no way that only ONE person would've been able to organize AND execute the plan. I'm about positive that Sneddon was paid pretty well for his 'role'....WHO was filling his pockets, I believe, has something (possibly everything) to do with the sting. And I don't think his 'dirty money' came from one source or entity....much like the hoax, the conspiracy against Mike was huge...and involved a lot of planning, time, money, and resources.<br /><br />Sim:<br />
<br />Yes of course, FBI operations are not uniquely/strictly focused on organizing STINGs.<br />But so far, throughout this hoax, we've seen many signs, clues and also direct hints made by TS and also by the family (LaToya), that at least in this death hoax, the FBI involvement is focused on a STING operation meant to reveal a conspiracy! the word conspiracy had been mentioned countless times by Michael and his family in numerous interviews!!<br /> A conspiracy of that caliber (2 false allegation trials + money extortion + album sabotage - "Invincible" + death threats + media bashing) can only be stopped with the help/involvement of an authority such as FBI and the best "modus-operandi" in such cases is the STING!<br />TS dedicated 2 levels and several large posts on the subject of FBI and the STING!<br />I think we should NOT dismiss this as just a mere 'TS-prank/test".<br />he may have "played' with us here and there, throwing some small false leads to us, to check if we follow that blindly or we use our logic! <br />But I doubt he had invested so much time and energy on this them (FBI - sting operation) just for all to be a farse for us!<br />That's why the DWD theory seems to be the most plausible of all! because in such serious case, for such a sting, FBI doesn't "play with dolls/dummies and other weak materials like that! things HAD to be as REAL as possible!!! FBI never leaves place for mistakes! they don't want to compromise the work of so many people (most paid with public money) by working with "plastic-patients" !<br />PLUS: remember, we still don't have all the subjects targeted by this sting! Who knows what dark affairs FBI intends to uncover/prove/de-conspire through the use of the DWD practice!!
<br /><br />I agree. Sure, the FBI engages in other activities than just sting operations, that's a given. But they also DO engage in stings, that's a fact. And when they do engage in sting operations, there is the need to ensure avoidance of entrapment. Have there been any 'signs'/clues that point to things having been put in place to avoid entrapment these past 3 1/2 years? If there is no sting, WHY the need to do anything to avoid entrapment? If there is an FBI sting in place...it is, IMO, again very 'naive' to think that amateurish scenario's would've been ok'd by them. And when everything is taken into account (the enormity of the hoax)....using a dummy in place of a 'real body' OR having MJ play the part himself 'for fun' or so he could be the 'director' (which even so...doesn't mean, in the least, that he HAD to be on-scene anyway, especially in this day and age)...would signify very amateurish planning. Based on what we do know about both the FBI and Mike....I find it very hard to envision anything 'amateurish' in their planning or execution.<br /><br />As for the verdict....sure, it could be read any way we like. BUT, the fact remains that the use of 'alleged' in a verdict is NOT common practice....it, in essence, nullifies the verdict (which is why it's NEVER used in verdicts). With all the other clues we had...given to us to ease our minds during the trial....WHY would something that could be LEGALLY challenged have been used as merely a 'clue'? We can either view it's usage as merely a 'clue' for us hoaxers...or we can dig a little deeper and see that it could also AND more importantly, have been used to avoid entrapment. Which would take us back to the question of....if there is no sting, WHY the need to avoid entrapment?<br /><br />@Wish...I LOVE when you chime in :icon_razz:<br /><br />@Aussie...I don't doubt that some forgetfulness is genuine, not at all (there's SO much to remember!). I have always respected the fact that you dug into the hoax with both hands (and feet lol) and put the time and effort in on your own initiative :icon_razz:<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
<br />There's no need to add MJ beat boxing "keep-a-watchin" to the TII billy jean intro either and they did that. There's no need to add Liberian Girl pics to the memorial slides and on the stage and booklets at the burial. There's no need for all sorts of clues and hints that have been dropped over the years other then to keep us entertained.<br /><br />I think what Andrea and are I trying to say is clues to FBI involvement do not automatically prove the existence of an FBI sting going on. Involvement could be cooperation, clearance, approval, condoning, etc. FBI cooperation, for example, doesn't have to be a sting operation. The FBI do lots of other things besides just sting operations. That's why I was asking if anyone wanted to organize a list of reasons or evidences for the sting theory, because proving it's validity is imperative to the strength of the DWD theory.<br />
<br /><br />Bec - you and Andrea make a great point. I've been thinking about this as well. Just because we see the FBI involvement doesn't mean it's a sting.<br /><br />But what I've been thinking is this - Marlon wore the FBI hat which made us look the direction of FBI (at least it did for me). Was that before or after the files were released? Anyways, it was supposedly Charles Thomson that asked for the FBI files to be released and that has made me wonder for a long time whether he's somehow involved. I know he's somewhat controversial but he's done is part in helping with the vindication efforts.<br /><br />I guess what I've pondered is that maybe the references to the FBI has more to do with the files and 333 pages released, including the intended release date then it does the actual involvement of the organization. <br /><br />If it's a sting maybe the FBI has been investigating those that were trying to exhort money from MJ? I know it's been quiet and Jordan's dad committed suicide (on 11/5??) but maybe the sting/investigation is surrounding the ones that led the efforts of false accusation. I need to get to bed but will think about this even though my efforts will be weak because I don't support the sting theory.<br /><br />Blessings<br />
<br /><br /><br />I can't remember which came first, Marlon's FBI hat or the files released. I thought it was Brian Oxman who requested the FBI release their files on MJ through the Freedom of Information act. He said that as an attorney, he knew the FBI were significantly involved in MJ's life and he put his request in August 2009 to have the files released. He also said he was 99.9% sure the ambulance photo was fake. Those two together indicates the Mr. Oxman is involved in the hoax. The files were meant to be released on 12/21/09 but were delayed a day...what was the reason, weather? 12/21/09 was also the date TIAI was revealed, part 1. <br /><br />I agree that FBI involvement does not absolutely have to involve a sting. But I also see that it very well could, that if the FBI are going to be involved anyways, why not catch some baddies at the same time? Either way, an actual sting is hard to prove with any certainty.<br />
<br /><br />Thanks MJonmind and Andrea - for me it's even better if it's Brian Oxman. I've always wondered why they waited until after d-day (8/2009) to have them released when they could have done this any time before? I believe the answer is probably that the skeptical world would not believe the reports or maybe think that they've been doctored by MJ's group to make it look better.<br />I believe they came out around Christmas time 2009, if I remember correctly.<br /><br />I found out that we saw Marlon with that FBI hat on June 26, 2009 - so it was right out of the gate. He was also seen wearing it in the reality show that they did.<br /><br />Have to get to work - have a blessed day!
There's no need to add MJ beat boxing "keep-a-watchin" to the TII billy jean intro either and they did that.
I think the need was for Michael to create his validity/credibility as Back and Front on the forum. <br />I mean besides confirmations from the family, he verified himself... so to speak...<br /><br />
on 1354588004:
There's no need to add Liberian Girl pics to the memorial slides and on the stage and booklets at the burial.
Those pics were an important comforting visual clue for the fans who were (most of them) suffering and crying! To most those pics didn't meant anything at that time, they didn't realize it then (me neither! I was still in shock...and had tears in my eyes during the most moving moments of the memorial), but I think those pics , alongside the other numerous clues had a very strong calming effect on the few, but very observant fans who noticed them right then when it all happened.<br />I think this was Michael's purpose: to make at least a small amount of fans feel better when seeing them.<br /><br />
on 1354588004:
There's no need for all sorts of clues and hints that have been dropped over the years other then to keep us entertained.
i must disagree here too. I think every single detail was carefully planned and thought before hand and everything MEANT something important. Nothing was done at hazard... nothing was superficial nor superfluous. Such a minutely prepared hoax cannot have useless elements in it! At least that's how I perceive it to be, that's how I perceive Michael..as the perfectionist he is and almost obsessed with details! I highly doubt anything was done just like that... for the sake of it! Everything was intended and charged with a definite scope and effect! <br /><br />
on 1354588004:
I think what Andrea and are I trying to say is clues to FBI involvement do not automatically prove the existence of an FBI sting going on.<br /> Involvement [size=12pt]could be[/size] cooperation, clearance, approval, condoning, etc.
Could be! maybe! perhaps!<br />IMo the evidence presented by TS (not just in his last posts, but on all his posts on the FBI sting) contains much more certainty than those doubting "could be-s", even if TS clearly didn't tell us everything! either because he doesn't know everything (as he clearly said it) OR because he CAN'T tell us everything , not YET (because "The BEST is YET to come!")<br /><br /><br />
on 1354588004:
FBI cooperation, for example, doesn't have to be a sting operation. The FBI do lots of other things besides just sting operations.
Yes of course, FBI operations are not uniquely/strictly focused on organizing STINGs.<br />But so far, throughout this hoax, we've seen many signs, clues and also direct hints made by TS and also by the family (LaToya), that at least in this death hoax, the FBI involvement is focused on a STING operation meant to reveal a conspiracy! the word conspiracy had been mentioned countless times by Michael and his family in numerous interviews!!<br /> A conspiracy of that caliber (2 false allegation trials + money extortion + album sabotage - "Invincible" + death threats + media bashing) can only be stopped with the help/involvement of an authority such as FBI and the best "modus-operandi" in such cases is the STING!<br />TS dedicated 2 levels and several large posts on the subject of FBI and the STING!<br />I think we should NOT dismiss this as just a mere 'TS-prank/test".<br />he may have "played' with us here and there, throwing some small false leads to us, to check if we follow that blindly or we use our logic! <br />But I doubt he had invested so much time and energy on this them (FBI - sting operation) just for all to be a farse for us!<br />That's why the DWD theory seems to be the most plausible of all! because in such serious case, for such a sting, FBI doesn't "play with dolls/dummies and other weak materials like that! things HAD to be as REAL as possible!!! FBI never leaves place for mistakes! they don't want to compromise the work of so many people (most paid with public money) by working with "plastic-patients" !<br />PLUS: remember, we still don't have all the subjects targeted by this sting! Who knows what dark affairs FBI intends to uncover/prove/de-conspire through the use of the DWD practice!!<br />
<br /><br />I agree with you, there is/was all along a need for clues because this is a game, and the point/purpose is to think for yourself and discover the truth-- MJ isn't dead. So the beat boxing keep-a-watchin is a clue that back is valid, Liberian girl pics are a clue MJ is behind the camera and punking the audience, "alleged" is a clue to CourtTV watchers that the trial is staged. A DWD patient doesn't need an alleged date of death, they actually would have died on that day. Semantics gymnastics are needed to explain the use of alleged in conjunction with the date to make it fit with an actual DWD patient in this scenario.<br /><br />Regarding all the past clues MJ dropped about "conspiracy" and "they" trying to harm him, I'd like to pose this thought to the group. It's the thought that has always given me trouble with this portion of the plot that TS_comments is selling. If MJ was in fear for his life and believed there was a conspiracy to destroy him, WHY would he not go directly to the authorities? Why would he simply drop hints about it in media interviews for YEARS? Why would he talk to a random Rabbi and allow these statements to be taped? Why would he call people who aren't particularly close to him and leave messages on answering machines about it? Why would he talk about it in situations where he was liable to be taped/recorded and his words to be then publicly broadcasted? Why not go directly to the authorities with this fear? He's MJ, the most famous face in the world, and if he's being extorted, and truly in fear for his life, talking to a Rabbi isn't going to help keep him, or his children safe.<br /><br />Re: DWD theory, again, it rests upon a foundation of the FBI sting operation theory being real. If we cannot prove the sting operation, the DWD theory remains without a leg in one corner.<br /><br />MJ has invested a ton of serious time and energy in this ARG so I do not believe he considers any of it frivolous. He has punked the entire world in an elaborate effort of deception. Why would he not also punk US? I think it would be foolish of us to underestimate what this man is capable of, and to proceed without eyes wide open as to the potential that we are not too smart to fall for his pranks.<br /><br />Remember, the deaders say that MJ wouldn't invest so much time in energy in faking his death as a farce and fool his fans. And yet we collectively take this truth for granted.<br /><br />I have long said I believe there is a sting going on... but it is against the media and the fans. In that way I do not believe it is a criminal sting; no one will go to jail, simply lessons will be learned. The clues dropped to prevent entrapment prevent the fans and media (and members of the general public) from complaining after the fact that they were fooled so completely that NO ONE could have seen through it. We, fed by these clues being dropped all along, PROVE there was no entrapment. We prove that anyone could have figured out the truth (MJ=not dead).<br /><br />We may also be the targets of a sting as yet unidentified.
Well bec...maybe you're right and it's all just a 'game'. I have never felt it was and still don't...far from it actually. But, if your thinking is correct, then I hope Mike is ready for:<br /><br />1) Heavy backlash - those who 'doubted'/still doubt Mike's character or innocence, or even those 'fans' who fell for the 'death' and suffered through it...will not take having been 'punked' just for a 'game' lightly. I don't see how this will help to 'remove any stains'...rather, it will add a few more. What 'hoaxers' think won't matter...we are, and always have been, in the minority<br /><br />2) Jail time - it is a federal crime to make false statements to govt officials (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements).<br /><br />If ANYTHING other than a real corpse was used AND if the FBI is not involved, then many laws have been broken in these past 3 1/2 years...ranging from making false statements, to falsifying legal documents, to using emergency resources (ambulance, EMT's, hospital) for 'fun', to perjury, to using public resources---coroner, courtroom, judge, jury, DA's office, LAFD, etc etc etc---under false pretenses. If the general backlash of the public finding out it was all just a 'game' isn't enough....he should be ready for some HEAVY backlash from taxpayers who fund these entities and, who for the most part, are trying to make ends meet in a struggling economy.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br /><br /><br />
If this is all only for a movie and entertainment and there was never any real conspiracy or danger to MJ, then I hope he never bams. Because the general public and some fans will not take it well.[massive understatement] There will be backlash like he's never experienced. <br />However, if his life was threatened and there was gov't agencies cooperating and working within the hoax, then when the truth does come out, there will not be the uproar about being lied to or fooled. After all....who could blame one for doing what is necessary to survive. FBI involvement allows MJ to BAM in the appointed and perfect timing, and come out of it all vindicated, wrongs righted and most of all blameless for the whole thing.
<br />If this is all only for a movie and entertainment and there was never any real conspiracy or danger to MJ, then I hope he never bams. Because the general public and some fans will not take it well.[massive understatement] There will be backlash like he's never experienced. <br />However, if his life was threatened and there was gov't agencies cooperating and working within the hoax, then when the truth does come out, there will not be the uproar about being lied to or fooled. After all....who could blame one for doing what is necessary to survive. FBI involvement allows MJ to BAM in the appointed and perfect timing, and come out of it all vindicated, wrongs righted and most of all blameless for the whole thing. <br />
<br /><br />Completely agree with everything you said RK....from start to finish, especially the bolded part. If that's the case, that it's all just a game OR a sting against the media and fans...then for his own sake, he's better off staying 'dead' and living his life FAR away from the public eye. <br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
i completely agree with BTC and RK, if this is just a sting against fans and media, then the public will turn sceptical and judgemental more than ever. As i had previously stated, if the public has to follow Michael, then he needs to shaken their grounds of beliefs by proving wrong the institutions they've been following. Which would mean sting on something bigger, that'd mean FBI involvement, that can mean DWD.<br /><br />We will never completely know until Bam on whom the sting is, so we can't even try to guess...because we have not been there. Similarly we cannot prove the FBI involvement till Bam, FBI won't plant clues... that would be highly dangerous...
Just by the nature of what this is; it's a natural sting on fans and media. No matter if this death hoax will turn out to capture the most hardened criminals of the world....the fans and media will feel their own special brand of "sting". The fans will feel left out and the media will be licking their wounds for not checking facts 1000% before reporting. Yes, I have always believed as well, we believers hold some sort of value to the hoax's validity. <br />However, I'd never assume that it rests on our uncovering of said clues. I am sure Michael had thought of things well in advance...and most likely lead us down a garden path or two. If this is an ARG of sorts with a sting, the main "sting factor" has to be the fans and media.....in my opinion as well. I think the fallout of it may hit other's as well....pharmaceutical companies re-evaluating their ways, emergency personal training harder for faster response/better driving (lol), states looking into crooked branches of the judiciary systems, artists in the recording industry learning to protect themselves ....all sorts of things have gone on in 3.5 years, I am sure of it. All by natural fallout from Michael's supposed death. The sting and shock when he retakes the world's stage, however he chooses, is going to be a huge shift once again. His death clogged up the internet....think what his resurrection will do. For this little hoaxer, it will be redemption of the mind for sure. I feel like I have been broken into pieces. But, I know there's a light coming at the end of the tunnel. I am more calm in the anticipation of BAM, than ever before. Whatever happened June 25th, 2009, it was for the of good things......whether an escape for Michael, an adventure for us, a sting against whoever.......whether a DWD person was used, a dummy was used, Michael himself, or nothing.....it was all for good. I guess that's where faith kicks in.....just believe in it all. <br /><br />Blessings Always <br /><br />PS> just read you BTC and RK......great posts all the way around...thank you!
If this is all only for a movie and entertainment and there was never any real conspiracy or danger to MJ, then I hope he never bams. Because the general public and some fans will not take it well.[massive understatement] There will be backlash like he's never experienced. <br />However, if his life was threatened and there was gov't agencies cooperating and working within the hoax, then when the truth does come out, there will not be the uproar about being lied to or fooled. After all....who could blame one for doing what is necessary to survive. FBI involvement allows MJ to BAM in the appointed and perfect timing, and come out of it all vindicated, wrongs righted and most of all blameless for the whole thing.
Completely agree with everything you said RK....from start to finish, especially the bolded part. If that's the case, that it's all just a game OR a sting against the media and fans...then for his own sake, he's better off staying 'dead' and living his life FAR away from the public eye.
i completely agree with BTC and RK, if this is just a sting against fans and media, then the public will turn sceptical and judgemental more than ever. [...]
<br />Well bec...maybe you're right and it's all just a 'game'. I have never felt it was and still don't...far from it actually. But, if your thinking is correct, then I hope Mike is ready for:<br /><br />1) Heavy backlash - those who 'doubted'/still doubt Mike's character or innocence, or even those 'fans' who fell for the 'death' and suffered through it...will not take having been 'punked' just for a 'game' lightly. I don't see how this will help to 'remove any stains'...rather, it will add a few more. What 'hoaxers' think won't matter...we are, and always have been, in the minority<br /><br />2) Jail time - it is a federal crime to make false statements to govt officials (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements).<br /><br />If ANYTHING other than a real corpse was used AND if the FBI is not involved, then many laws have been broken in these past 3 1/2 years...ranging from making false statements, to falsifying legal documents, to using emergency resources (ambulance, EMT's, hospital) for 'fun', to perjury, to using public resources---coroner, courtroom, judge, jury, DA's office, LAFD, etc etc etc---under false pretenses. If the general backlash of the public finding out it was all just a 'game' isn't enough....he should be ready for some HEAVY backlash from taxpayers who fund these entities and, who for the most part, are trying to make ends meet in a struggling economy.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Yes but that would be assuming that there is no FBI involvement at all, which the release of 7 files contained 333 pages on 12/21/09 suggest strongly that there is. The 333 pages would have to be a massive coincidence if it were. It's been unanimous based on the information we have at hand that this is not just a coincidence, rather there is some sort of FBI involvement. <br /><br />In due diligence with his elaborate, 2 decade long planning of this project, legality would have to be insured prior, through MJ's team of lawyers, and it is reasonable to assume that the FBI involvement that we all accept, also ensures legality to proceed with the execution. <br /><br />FBI involvement must be an accepted truth due to the 333 pages. The sting theory is the one I am questioning.<br /><br />As far as backlash resulting from fans feeling slighted, I suppose that's a given and has been all along. He fooled them on purpose with the "fake" lyrics and slap-dash songs on Michael album. He got them all hot n bothered with KJ selling books unauthorized by the Estate. He got them all angry about his body being not buried for 70 days, his children chatting away "unsupervised" online, his father selling perfume with his unauthorized image on it. All of these things which "taint" his legacy and infuriate his fans have been done-- NOT because he was in fear for his life against mysterious and enshrouded bad guys, but because he wrote it all into the script.<br /><br />I don't think the general public is going to be angry that he fooled the world for an entertainment production. I think they will be amused and amazed. I also don't believe tax payer money paid for a single thing. I think everything was staged that could be, and everything that was not was covered by the Estate (police presence for the memorial, for example, was covered by the Estate. The city of LA was reimbursed very publicly back in 2009, this may well be an example of the track record from day one in regards to who paid for what).<br /><br />On the contrary, IF the FBI allowed MJ to do all this on the public dime just because his life was threatened, THEN I would expect a public backlash. The general public is going to be angry that our broke government went along with a massively expensive media hoax just to catch someone who wants to rub out MJ. What do they care about MJ? Not much, and certainly not enough to agree that this amount of tax payer money (for a fake trial and all the paper work involved with the fake documents, ect) was worth protecting MJ. Surely there's other ways. If MJ's life is indeed in danger, what's wrong with the WPP (or equivalent) like any other normal person being threatened by nefarious entities? He could quietly "disappear" while the feds investigate this conspiracy, and proceed with their investigations like they do with every other FBI involved case. The general public is not likely to agree that MJ deserves special treatment, nor will they likely agree with their tax dollars being spent on MJ perusing his numerology requirements on the public dole is a noble use of the country's money.
I have to say I agree with the current vibe floated by BTC, RK & Wishing. As I posted the other day the thought that this was merely a "game"/ARG dwindled in my mind the longer the "adventure" has gone. All of the points that would seem to be intended to be made against wishy-washy fans and/or the corrupted media could have been proven and driven home in a far shorter time span...prior to lawsuits and trials for example. There would still have been backlash but it would be even worse (I'm afraid) this far out with this much water under the bridge. The "four years to get it right" statement in TII indicates that he knew going in whatever would be accomplished would take a long time and that indicates to me that serious work was going on behind the scenes for a purpose. The clues, hints and whispers I think have been intended for those of us who've strapped into this rollercoaster to not lose hope over the long haul. Sadly there are many who have done just that anyway and have abandoned the cause. :icon_e_sad:
<br />As far as backlash resulting from fans feeling slighted, I suppose that's a given and has been all along. He fooled them on purpose with the "fake" lyrics and slap-dash songs on Michael album. He got them all hot n bothered with KJ selling books unauthorized by the Estate. He got them all angry about his body being not buried for 70 days, his children chatting away "unsupervised" online, his father selling perfume with his unauthorized image on it. All of these things which "taint" his legacy and infuriate his fans have been done-- NOT because he was in fear for his life against mysterious and enshrouded bad guys, but because he wrote it all into the script.<br />
<br /><br />No laws were broken in any of ^^^, as opposed to the MANY laws I listed in my previous post...huge difference. And people were 'worried' about Mike having broken the law in using/having a DWD patient die in CA? LOL Page after page and post after post of the 'fact' that DWD IS illegal in CA (when it's not) and how Mike wouldn't break the law nor want the backlash associated with breaking the law....and now it's all 'ok' that he broke many other laws cause it's all 'just a game'. The contradictions in thinking, at times, are the real 'gymnastics' being done here.<br /><br />If the starting point is that it's all 'just a game'....then the chasm is FAR too wide to even continue the convo.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
FBI cooperation, for example, doesn't have to be a sting operation. The FBI do lots of other things besides just sting operations.
Yes of course, FBI operations are not uniquely/strictly focused on organizing STINGs.<br />But so far, throughout this hoax, we've seen many signs, clues and also direct hints made by TS and also by the family (LaToya), that at least in this death hoax, the FBI involvement is focused on a STING operation meant to reveal a conspiracy! the word conspiracy had been mentioned countless times by Michael and his family in numerous interviews!!<br /> A conspiracy of that caliber (2 false allegation trials + money extortion + album sabotage - "Invincible" + death threats + media bashing) can only be stopped with the help/involvement of an authority such as FBI and the best "modus-operandi" in such cases is the STING!<br />TS dedicated 2 levels and several large posts on the subject of FBI and the STING!<br />I think we should NOT dismiss this as just a mere 'TS-prank/test".<br />he may have "played' with us here and there, throwing some small false leads to us, to check if we follow that blindly or we use our logic! <br />But I doubt he had invested so much time and energy on this them (FBI - sting operation) just for all to be a farse for us!<br />That's why the DWD theory seems to be the most plausible of all! because in such serious case, for such a sting, FBI doesn't "play with dolls/dummies and other weak materials like that! things HAD to be as REAL as possible!!! FBI never leaves place for mistakes! they don't want to compromise the work of so many people (most paid with public money) by working with "plastic-patients" !<br />PLUS: remember, we still don't have all the subjects targeted by this sting! Who knows what dark affairs FBI intends to uncover/prove/de-conspire through the use of the DWD practice!!
<br />Regarding all the past clues MJ dropped about "conspiracy" and "they" trying to harm him, I'd like to pose this thought to the group. It's the thought that has always given me trouble with this portion of the plot that TS_comments is selling.<br />1. If MJ was in fear for his life and believed there was a conspiracy to destroy him, WHY would he not go directly to the authorities? <br />2. Why would he simply drop hints about it in media interviews for YEARS? <br />3. Why would he talk to a random Rabbi and allow these statements to be taped? <br />4. Why would he call people who aren't particularly close to him and leave messages on answering machines about it? <br />5. Why would he talk about it in situations where he was liable to be taped/recorded and his words to be then publicly broadcasted? <br />6. Why not go directly to the authorities with this fear? He's MJ, the most famous face in the world, and if he's being extorted, and truly in fear for his life, talking to a Rabbi isn't going to help keep him, or his children safe.
<br />Good questions, Bec and I had thought about them too.<br />I think one important reason for Michael to go out publicly and drop all these conspiracy statements were also to help him gain validity later for the purpose of faking his death! <br /><br />Therefore either during the hoax or better said after the BAM! he will be able to say: <br />"Look, people of the world, I had drawn so many alarm signals in the past about what was happening to me!! and YET NO real measure had been taken! I had been ignored and left to deal with those problems by myself! And that's how I decided to fake my death with the help of the FBI! It was the only way to make the hate stop and to bring out the conspiracy-snakes! And since I was being forced to recur to such an extreme method, I also took advantage to make it a FUN incredible experience for my FANS and this way to bring INNOVATION in the entertainment industry! at the same time the FBI having their own share of the whole thing: catching the big sharks from the pharmaceutical industry!" <br /><br />^^ JMO JMO! JMO!! loll It's just my imagination of how MJ would explain the hoax after the BAM!!<br />I really can't think of another possible version!!<br /> <br />SO @Bec everything you have enlisted in your questions here above ^^ I take it as just one more justification (safety/insurance) of a man being in despair of having to cope by himself with all that injustice!<br />Either he did that by his own decision or he was advised to drop those clues...slowly but surely, by his lawyers or by the people from the FBI that collaborated with him. <br />At least that's how I see it!<br /><br /><br /><br />
I have long said I believe there is a sting going on... but it is against the media and the fans.
<br />I understand why the death hoax/sting is 'against the media" for all the OBVIOUS reasons!<br />I don't understand why a STING "against the fans"? As if the fans had done something wrong!?<br /><br />I would understand though a farse/hoax/entertainment side of this whole project, being made FOR US, the fans (hoaxers + deaders) just for the sake of making us experience the adventure of a lifetime , here including the INNOVATION in the entertainment industry!<br />^^ THAT I can understand and I have NO doubt that IT is INDEED one of the reasons (WHYs) of Michael's death hoax.<br />But I don't see it as something "against the fans". <br /><br />Then, moving on... From what you said in your whole message, it seems that the death hoax has only 2 purposes: 1. farse/sting/hoax against the media and 2. against the fans.<br />Are those 2 ^^ really the only reasons of this death hoax? Entertainment and making the media pay for their crap?<br />I doubt it.<br /><br />This is a much more elaborated plan than just that! He wouldn't have needed 10-20 years to only plan a hoax for the media and his fans.<br />Things go way deeper and there is ABSOLUTELY a danger-factor (conspiracy, death threat, sting) in it all! <br />PLUS the following:<br /><br />1. There is also an environmental factor (Save the Planet, heal the World)<br />2. There is a humanitarian factor (fund raising, Children's hospital, though all the hoax-products that came out and that will continue to come out even after the BAM!)<br />3. There is also a cleansing/clearing aspect of Michael's image!<br />4. There is the aspect of corruption in the Justice System, Music and Pharmaceutic Industries!<br />5. There is also the FBI aspect who may have 2 major interests in getting involved in this hoax: 1. make light in Michael's case of conspiracy against him and 2. some hidden/top secret purpose that would serve only the government/FBI and that we may probably never find out!<br /><br />And if I left out other important aspects, pls feel free to add to the list.
The general public largely sees the MJ fan community as obsessive fanatics. IF it turns out that MJ punked them hard core, and they end up angry about it, I bet the general public will laugh their asses off. <br /><br />MJ lives for (aka feeds on) drama and controversy, yes?<br /><br />Consider the snake story. MJ recognizes that the snake pauses before striking because the snake enjoys the moment of the mouse's terror before the kill. Now why does MJ recognize this? Perhaps because he IDENTIFIES with the snake.<br /><br />WE prevent entrapment, we have always accepted that. But what kind of entrapment are we talking about? Criminal entrapment or social/artisitc entrapment? Previously, the idea was floated that if we could figure out how it was done, we would prevent a criminal from using the defense of entrapment before a court of law. Now it turns out that we were unable to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt and TS had to step in and finish the level himself. So how does that prevent entrapment as described in this paragraph? It doesn't, rather it STRENGTHS the entrapment defense. An insider had to hold our hands and give us the answers. We were unable, using the information in the media, pin point the truth of how it was all done, without the assistance of spoon feeding. If we were unable, after all this time and effort by the loyal and dutiful members here, to sift through the BS and settle on the truth, by ourselves, it's unlikely that anyone else could have done it either. <br /><br />Yes, TS_comments had to finish it himself. In the past, if someone gets the right answer, he quotes that person and comments to that fact. This time he did not. If any one had gotten the "right answer" in all 142 pages of this thread, I believe he would have quoted them, perhaps even multiple quotes from multiple people harvested from multiple pages like he has done before, to PROVE that individual members came up with the right answers on their own. As it was, he did not, rather he himself wrote out the "answers" to end the level. That doesn't prevent entrapment. That indicates that the answers were not cut and dried, and the information could not stand on it's own, and the answers were NOT just to be found by anyone given the right time and inclination. That actually proves entrapment did occur/is occurring.
I agree that MJ would've planned for the legalities of the hoax and FBI involvement ensures that. If he didn't make sure it was all done properly then he could face being arrested upon return. BAM! Followed by whomp whomp.<br /><br />Do we know if the medical people involved (paramedics, doctors) were even scheduled to work that day? These people don't normally work Mon-Fri 9-5, it's shift work. If they weren't supposed to work then their part in the hoax would not take resources away from those who really needed help that day. A last minute excuse could've covered why they were there that day - doc got her schedule mixed up, or whatever. Someone from Station 71 needs to be involved in the hoax in some way since that's where the ambulance came from, presumably. I realize there's a lot of "ifs" there but there has to be an explanation. If the dead body was used to fool these people then none of those excuses would be needed but getting these people to try and revive a dead person for two hours DOES take resources away from those who need it. These people needed to be in place for the hoax and fake 911 call supports that notion, among the other evidences we have of their involvement.<br /><br />I think MJ is footing the bill as well. Using tax dollars would not be right and like bec said, the Estate made sure that everyone knew they were paying back the city for the Memorial. I'm sure the hoax has paid for itself with all the renewed interest in everything MJ these last 3+ years. I'm sure an argument could even be made that his "death" helped boost the economy somehow.<br />
I have long said I believe there is a sting going on... but it is against the media and the fans.
<br />I understand why the death hoax/sting is 'against the media" for all the OBVIOUS reasons!<br />I don't understand why a STING "against the fans"? As if the fans had done something wrong!?<br /><br />
<br /><br />Well, for those who want to refer to TS_comment's own words as justification, he has more then once agreed/ flat out admitted that there is a sting on the fans, as well as the media.<br /><br />I think the fan sting is to shake them up. He warned them for years not to believe the media, not believe everything they hear. To trust and have faith in him, to, whatever happens... not let go of his hand.<br /><br />YET THEY DID. They collectively accept that he was a pathetic, washed up, weak, easily controlled drug addict who acted irresponsibly with his 3 young children. They ignored their lessons, they forsake all of his warnings, they refused to acknowledge his clues. They should have known better, he prepped them for this for 20 years, more, but instead they were successfully, and so easily seduced by the dark side-- the media.<br /><br />All those lyrics regarding him being left by his love-object for another man? I think that is describing this situation. They left him, the REAL MJ, for the MJ being portrayed in the press, who CLEARLY isn't the MJ you and I know and love. They must be thinking of someone else. They must be grieving for another man. They left him, the prankster, and went off and worshiped the golden cow, a false prophet, the weak drug addicted dead MJ being paraded throughout the news.<br /><br />That's the sting. In my opinion, based on the info to date. My mind remains open, as information can be dropped at any time, so I keep watchin' as instructed.
<br />The general public largely sees the MJ fan community as obsessive fanatics. IF it turns out that MJ punked them hard core, and they end up angry about it, I bet the general public will laugh their asses off. <br /><br />MJ lives for (aka feeds on) drama and controversy, yes?<br /><br />Consider the snake story. MJ recognizes that the snake pauses before striking because the snake enjoys the moment of the mouse's terror before the kill. Now why does MJ recognize this? Perhaps because he IDENTIFIES with the snake.<br /><br />WE prevent entrapment, we have always accepted that. But what kind of entrapment are we talking about? Criminal entrapment or social/artisitc entrapment? Previously, the idea was floated that if we could figure out how it was done, we would prevent a criminal from using the defense of entrapment before a court of law. Now it turns out that we were unable to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt and TS had to step in and finish the level himself. So how does that prevent entrapment as described in this paragraph? It doesn't, rather it STRENGTHS the entrapment defense. An insider had to hold our hands and give us the answers. We were unable, using the information in the media, pin point the truth of how it was all done, without the assistance of spoon feeding. If we were unable, after all this time and effort by the loyal and dutiful members here, to sift through the BS and settle on the truth, by ourselves, it's unlikely that anyone else could have done it either. <br /><br />Yes, TS_comments had to finish it himself. In the past, if someone gets the right answer, he quotes that person and comments to that fact. This time he did not. If any one had gotten the "right answer" in all 142 pages of this thread, I believe he would have quoted them, perhaps even multiple quotes from multiple people harvested from multiple pages like he has done before, to PROVE that individual members came up with the right answers on their own. As it was, he did not, rather he himself wrote out the "answers" to end the level. That doesn't prevent entrapment. That indicates that the answers were not cut and dried, and the information could not stand on it's own, and the answers were NOT just to be found by anyone given the right time and inclination. That actually proves entrapment did occur/is occurring.<br />
<br /><br />Bec, TS_comments is a username...the guy is a user, why can't we take it this way, TS is not an insider, he doesn't know the complete story himself, he's just a person discussing stuff with us.
@bec: yes i know that the fans were also a subject of receiving a "lesson" of not blindly believing in everything they hear/read, just like the general public.<br /><br />But in continuation of those 2 lines you quoted from my message, I had also posted this:<br />which is in great lines what you said, but with that final different line... I just simply don't see it as "against" the fans, rather for the fans!<br /><br />
I would understand though a farse/hoax/entertainment side of this whole project, being made FOR US, the fans (hoaxers + deaders) just for the sake of making us experience the adventure of a lifetime , here including the INNOVATION in the entertainment industry!<br />^^ THAT I can understand and I have NO doubt that IT is INDEED one of the reasons (WHYs) of Michael's death hoax.<br />But I don't see it as something "against the fans".
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<br />As far as backlash resulting from fans feeling slighted, I suppose that's a given and has been all along. He fooled them on purpose with the "fake" lyrics and slap-dash songs on Michael album. He got them all hot n bothered with KJ selling books unauthorized by the Estate. He got them all angry about his body being not buried for 70 days, his children chatting away "unsupervised" online, his father selling perfume with his unauthorized image on it. All of these things which "taint" his legacy and infuriate his fans have been done-- NOT because he was in fear for his life against mysterious and enshrouded bad guys, but because he wrote it all into the script.
Bec, what you perfectly describe here as part of MJ's well planned script is indeed a STING! But NOT on the fans, BUT on those would try to take advantage / profit from the sales of all that you mentioned here above^^<br />LaToya told us: It's the money trail that we need to follow!! in order to find out WHO /WHAT exactly is the target of this STING! <br />And the money surely do NOT go/lead to the fans!
we can never know what the true story is unless someone shows us the way to go. We were not present in during June 25 when the hoax started off. We knew MJ was alive because of the other clues like (ambo pic, slip ups by Jackson family) that was not hard to guess...but we need someone to guide us how it happened.
<br />An insider had to hold our hands and give us the answers. We were unable, using the information in the media, pin point the truth of how it was all done, without the assistance of spoon feeding. If we were unable, after all this time and effort by the loyal and dutiful members here, to sift through the BS and settle on the truth, by ourselves, it's unlikely that anyone else could have done it either. <br />
<br /><br />We're back to the cop-out of 'TS gave us all the answers'? Once again, the insinuation is flat-out false, at best...bordering on offensive, at worst. Here's just ONE example, of many, of how people pieced things together BEFORE 'TS gave us all the answers'...written by Souza a year and a half ago:<br /><br />
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The body may have been a John Doe - they must have loads of John Does at the Coroner's - people who have no identity or family to mourn them. I may be way off track but it's a plausible solution for the body.
<br /><br />A John Doe is the most probable..... they don't have family, they are available all the time (sorry if i sound morbid) and it was easy for FBI to get it.<br /><br />If there was a body, I don't think it was of a doner because in that case that doner couldn't just die on the 25th of June to make the numbers match.
<br /><br />Yes he could. In the neighbour state Oregon, plus in Washington and Montana, assisted suicide is legal. There are some rules of course, but you can choose your own date of death. After going through the 'approval procedure', a doctor can prescribe the lethal medications to the terminally ill patient and then the patient has to administer it himself. I am just thinking about some articles like "Michael Jackson 6 months to live" (in order to get approval for assisted suicide, you must have a life expectation of 6 months or less), "MJ killed himself" "MJ looked like sick old frail man", add to that the painkiller addictions, which many terminally ill patients have and it's starting to look like assisted suicide. I sent an email to determine if it's possible for someone from one of those states to self-administer the drugs in a state where it's not (yet) legal. If not, it is possible that they flew the body in on the morning of June 25th, right after the person was pronounced dead by a doctor in Oregon/Washington/Montana. We still have that close-down at LAX that morning. Was it really someone leaving, or (also) someone arriving? It would also explain why the body was already cold and stiff, even though the room temp was that high. The person would have been dead for hours, and that is what the EMT's thought.<br /><br />It would also mean that the EMT's in the back of the ambulance, might not even be in the know. They would certainly think something is going on, but that doesn't mean they really KNOW. We think it's all fishy, and we don't know either. They might have been told that there is a shadow investigation going on by the FBI considering MJ's death and that the ambulance picture was faked for a certain reason. That is just a thought, but point is that if their supervisor tells them to shut up because the FBI is involved, they will. I do think the driver is in the know, because he backed out that slow. There is a difference between knowing something is wrong, and really KNOW about the hoax. I think only those absolutely necessary are truly knowing what's going on, because if this is a sting, there is also something like the safety of people and the operation. Who doesn't know, can't talk.<br /><br />Same goes for people in the hospital. I believe one or two people at the hospital really KNOW, the ones in the room when they brought in the body might only suspect. We haven't heard from anyone at the hospital, which shows me that they too were asked not to talk about it. And the fire alarm at the hospital made sure that only a select few would be able to see the body (damage control).<br /><br />An autopsy is not required with assisted suicide, so I don't think there even was an autopsy. The cause of death on the DC will be stated as natural, with mention of the decease. No autopsy is needed. The coroner's office knows, they have to. If he didn't slice up MJ, he knows it's a hoax, so in any case the coroner is aware of the hoax. An e-mail I received today from the coroner's office confirms that for me. It was a reply to a question I sent them in October 2009, which is extremely strange. It came from the chief of public services and I am pretty sure she receives many emails, questions and requests. An email from October 2009 would definitely be buried by now, so this tells me she saved it somewhere. Why answer now after 18 months? (still mailing, I will post it if something interesting comes up). <br /><br />So a real body would definitely bring the number of people in on it down.<br /><br /><br />As for a living person (MJ or double) or no one at all being in the ambulance, that would increase the people in on it. You can't perform CPR on a person that is perfectly fine or non-exsisting, which means it was all a show and anyone in the room at Carolwood, the EMT's and everyone present in the hospital are in the know. Also, MJ or the double should leave the hospital at a certain moment, and with all the fans and paparazzi present there, that would be way too risky. I don't believe that they would take such a risk.<br /><br />A real body might not be 'entertaining', but if this is a sting operation, it simply might have been necessary.<br /><br />On a sidenote: I think Alberto Alvarez is an FBI agent and maybe the other bodyguards as well. <br /><br />So in a nutshell, here is what I think might have occured that day:<br /><br />Early morning: Terminally ill patient ends his life by self-administering lethal medications. He is pronounced dead by a doctor, they made sure everything was done according to the rules, and they put him on a plane to LAX to transport him later on to Carolwood Drive. There he is placed on the bed in the heated room, the bottles of propofol, the IV and everything else was planted and Murray and Alvarez waited until 12:21 to call '911'. I think it was a fake call to make sure the right ambulance with the informed driver would be sent. Ambulance 71 goes to the mansion, EMT's see dead person, scratch themselves behind their ears but have no other choice then to try and resuscitate the body, since Murray is the higher authority. They bring the body to UCLA, where Cooper is the higher authority and can make sure death won't be called until the planned time of 2:26 pm. The body stayed at the UCLA morgue and nothing was transported to the coroner, which is why there was no need for a real body bag. It does mean the helicopter crew is in the know, plus the people present at that time at the coroner's office. The one sitting up in the helicopter could have been anyone. I think the person was buried on July 6th, since we have a video of the Jacksons at a burial at FL on that day. INFORMED about the hoax/sting on that day: Murray, bodyguards (FBI agents?), ambulance driver (does anyone know who that was? I only heard 2 names and 3 were present), Chief of LAFD Barry (resigned on May 28th, 2009 and left office on August 1, 2009 after only 2 years: <!-- m -->http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-c ... 8069.story<!-- m -->) and Chief of LAPD Bratton (who resigned in August 2009, leaving in October, with 3 years left of his 5-year term: <!-- m -->http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-b ... 4648.story<!-- m -->) Ben Evenstad and his colleague, Dr. Cooper, the helicopter crew and the Coroner's office. So except from the family those are mostly government agencies and only a few civilians. <br /><br />This means less people in the know. Some might suspect things, but I don't think you can avoid that, but you can make sure the number of people informed about the hoax is as low as possible. Of all the options (MJ, double, dummy, real corpse or nothing) a real corpse will have the less people involved, because I really don't think professional medical experts would be fooled with a dummy and IF they could be fooled with a dummy, they would have made sure the dummy looked like MJ, but it didn't.<br />
I have long said I believe there is a sting going on... but it is against the media and the fans.
<br />I understand why the death hoax/sting is 'against the media" for all the OBVIOUS reasons!<br />I don't understand why a STING "against the fans"? As if the fans had done something wrong!?<br /><br />
<br /><br />Well, for those who want to refer to TS_comment's own words as justification, he has more then once agreed/ flat out admitted that there is a sting on the fans, as well as the media.<br /><br />I think the fan sting is to shake them up. He warned them for years not to believe the media, not believe everything they hear. To trust and have faith in him, to, whatever happens... not let go of his hand.<br /><br />YET THEY DID. They collectively accept that he was a pathetic, washed up, weak, easily controlled drug addict who acted irresponsibly with his 3 young children. They ignored their lessons, they forsake all of his warnings, they refused to acknowledge his clues. They should have known better, he prepped them for this for 20 years, more, but instead they were successfully, and so easily seduced by the dark side-- the media.<br /><br />All those lyrics regarding him being left by his love-object for another man? I think that is describing this situation. They left him, the REAL MJ, for the MJ being portrayed in the press, who CLEARLY isn't the MJ you and I know and love. They must be thinking of someone else. They must be grieving for another man. They left him, the prankster, and went off and worshiped the golden cow, a false prophet, the weak drug addicted dead MJ being paraded throughout the news.<br /><br />That's the sting. In my opinion, based on the info to date. My mind remains open, as information can be dropped at any time, so I keep watchin' as instructed.<br />
<br /><br />THIS!!!!!!!! I thought I was the only one who felt this way lol. <br /> Every fan should have straight up love and respect for Michael Jackson. Unless Michael Jackson SAYS something HIMSELF, its NO ONES business and there is no reason to believe it. <br /><br />
<br />The general public largely sees the MJ fan community as obsessive fanatics. IF it turns out that MJ punked them hard core, and they end up angry about it, I bet the general public will laugh their asses off. <br /><br />MJ lives for (aka feeds on) drama and controversy, yes?<br /><br />Consider the snake story. MJ recognizes that the snake pauses before striking because the snake enjoys the moment of the mouse's terror before the kill. Now why does MJ recognize this? Perhaps because he IDENTIFIES with the snake.<br /><br />WE prevent entrapment, we have always accepted that. But what kind of entrapment are we talking about? Criminal entrapment or social/artisitc entrapment? Previously, the idea was floated that if we could figure out how it was done, we would prevent a criminal from using the defense of entrapment before a court of law. Now it turns out that we were unable to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt and TS had to step in and finish the level himself. So how does that prevent entrapment as described in this paragraph? It doesn't, rather it STRENGTHS the entrapment defense. An insider had to hold our hands and give us the answers. We were unable, using the information in the media, pin point the truth of how it was all done, without the assistance of spoon feeding. If we were unable, after all this time and effort by the loyal and dutiful members here, to sift through the BS and settle on the truth, by ourselves, it's unlikely that anyone else could have done it either. <br /><br />Yes, TS_comments had to finish it himself. In the past, if someone gets the right answer, he quotes that person and comments to that fact. This time he did not. If any one had gotten the "right answer" in all 142 pages of this thread, I believe he would have quoted them, perhaps even multiple quotes from multiple people harvested from multiple pages like he has done before, to PROVE that individual members came up with the right answers on their own. As it was, he did not, rather he himself wrote out the "answers" to end the level. That doesn't prevent entrapment. That indicates that the answers were not cut and dried, and the information could not stand on it's own, and the answers were NOT just to be found by anyone given the right time and inclination. That actually proves entrapment did occur/is occurring.<br />
<br /><br />Or conversely...TS_comments had to finish the level himself because people here were quite hesitant or unwilling to fully embrace the DWD/corpse theory possibility. How many statements have been posted listing doubt of that theory based largely on how they believe Michael would view or feel about that scenario? They aren't really thinking for themselves...they are trying to think FOR Michael (at least the Michael they think they know.) I think we were warned quite a while back that we needed to be able to think "outside the box". Perhaps this was farther "outside" than some were willing to go. I have no doubt that Michael believes in magic and miracles but I also think he's wise to the certain inevitably that we all face one day. Human bodies are not capable of sustaining life indefinitely...he's had to accept that fact when losing people he cared about over the years (as we all have). Would he rejoice in it...not a chance...but would he accept it...I think maybe so. But what the hell do I know...I'm just trying to analyze like everyone else.<br /><br />I also still firmly believe that it isn't necessary for the general population or even our group to discover actual details of the illusion created on 6/25 to argue against entrapment for what it's worth. Merely recognizing that it WAS an illusion served that purpose. The $64,000.00 question still remains...entrapment from what??? IF there is a serious sting involved...Who is THEY, what are THEY doing and to whom are THEY doing it? Why was the "death" illusion needed in the first place? The problem is that discussing any details in that regard must not be safe here or we'd have been given more information/confirmation. So either my thinking is way off target or there are truly nefarious elements in all of this. :icon_e_confused: <br /><br />PS Wow 7 more replies while writing this...guess I have more reading to do...lol.
<br />@bec: yes i know that the fans were also a subject of receiving a "lesson" of not blindly believing in everything they hear/read, just like the general public.<br /><br />But in continuation of those 2 lines you quoted from my message, I had also posted this:<br />which is in great lines what you said, but with that final different line... I just simply don't see it as "against" the fans, rather for the fans!<br /><br />
I would understand though a farse/hoax/entertainment side of this whole project, being made FOR US, the fans (hoaxers + deaders) just for the sake of making us experience the adventure of a lifetime , here including the INNOVATION in the entertainment industry!<br />^^ THAT I can understand and I have NO doubt that IT is INDEED one of the reasons (WHYs) of Michael's death hoax.<br />But I don't see it as something "against the fans".
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on 1354641401:
<br />As far as backlash resulting from fans feeling slighted, I suppose that's a given and has been all along. He fooled them on purpose with the "fake" lyrics and slap-dash songs on Michael album. He got them all hot n bothered with KJ selling books unauthorized by the Estate. He got them all angry about his body being not buried for 70 days, his children chatting away "unsupervised" online, his father selling perfume with his unauthorized image on it. All of these things which "taint" his legacy and infuriate his fans have been done-- NOT because he was in fear for his life against mysterious and enshrouded bad guys, but because he wrote it all into the script.
Bec, what you perfectly describe here as part of MJ's well planned script is indeed a STING! But NOT on the fans, BUT on those would try to take advantage / profit from the sales of all that you mentioned here above^^<br />LaToya told us: It's the money trail that we need to follow!! in order to find out WHO /WHAT exactly is the target of this STING! <br />And the money surely do NOT go/lead to the fans!<br />
<br /><br />Agreed. But the money trail does indeed lead to MJ and I think that's what she meant.
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