<br />Yes but that would be assuming that there is no FBI involvement at all, which the release of 7 files contained 333 pages on 12/21/09 suggest strongly that there is. The 333 pages would have to be a massive coincidence if it were. It's been unanimous based on the information we have at hand that this is not just a coincidence, rather there is some sort of FBI involvement. <br />
<br /><br />http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs<br /><br />Brian Oxman was said to have asked for the documents to be released, right?<br /><br />
The Freedom of Information Act allows any person—except fugitives, federal agencies, and foreign intelligence agencies—to request information about organizations, businesses, investigations, historical events, incidents, groups, or deceased persons.
<br />http://www.fbi.gov/foia/requesting-fbi-records<br /><br />Files may be requested for deceased persons only.<br />If MJ was under surveillance - which presumably did not end with his verdict - the FBI knows that MJ is NOT deceased.<br />So Brian Oxman requested files the FBI could legally not release - except if this was part of and covered by a strategy.<br /><br />Which means <br />-either the 333 pages are baloney as to representing MJ's true files or <br />- they are giving only an very selected extract of the complete files that was not harmful in terms of blowing the sting. <br />I would even go so far to consider that the published part of MJ's files was meant to calm down those worrying about any negative findings and to make them believe nothing disturbing was detected concerning their names.<br /><br />7 files were published on FBI sites:<br />http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/december/jackson_122209<br /><br />which are called "The Vault":<br />http://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson<br /><br />The files start with copies from tabloid articles in Britain.<br /><br />Page 7 in file 252 contains a distinct, very familiar handwriting remarking "[...]Jan, Pls tell me they got the wrong unit on p2".<br />http://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson/Michael%20Jackson%20252%20File%20Part%201%20of%201/view<br />(I don't believe that page 7 in file 252=9 is a coincidence.)<br /><br />All file lead numbers add up to either 5, 8 or 9.<br /><br />All of the above leads me to reflecting on whether MJ was an FBI agent himself or else the a.m. details in this combination would be a mere impossible coincidence.<br />If MJ is an FBI insider, the story developing as of June 25, 2009 for sure was not executed without any FBI involvement.<br /><br />
<br />An insider had to hold our hands and give us the answers. We were unable, using the information in the media, pin point the truth of how it was all done, without the assistance of spoon feeding. If we were unable, after all this time and effort by the loyal and dutiful members here, to sift through the BS and settle on the truth, by ourselves, it's unlikely that anyone else could have done it either. <br />
<br /><br />We're back to the cop-out of 'TS gave us all the answers'? Once again, the insinuation is flat-out false, at best...bordering on offensive, at worst. Here's just ONE example, of many, of how people pieced things together BEFORE 'TS gave us all the answers'...written by Souza a year and a half ago:<br /><br />
on 1302652777:
<br />
The body may have been a John Doe - they must have loads of John Does at the Coroner's - people who have no identity or family to mourn them. I may be way off track but it's a plausible solution for the body.
<br /><br />A John Doe is the most probable..... they don't have family, they are available all the time (sorry if i sound morbid) and it was easy for FBI to get it.<br /><br />If there was a body, I don't think it was of a doner because in that case that doner couldn't just die on the 25th of June to make the numbers match.
<br /><br />Yes he could. In the neighbour state Oregon, plus in Washington and Montana, assisted suicide is legal. There are some rules of course, but you can choose your own date of death. After going through the 'approval procedure', a doctor can prescribe the lethal medications to the terminally ill patient and then the patient has to administer it himself. I am just thinking about some articles like "Michael Jackson 6 months to live" (in order to get approval for assisted suicide, you must have a life expectation of 6 months or less), "MJ killed himself" "MJ looked like sick old frail man", add to that the painkiller addictions, which many terminally ill patients have and it's starting to look like assisted suicide. I sent an email to determine if it's possible for someone from one of those states to self-administer the drugs in a state where it's not (yet) legal. If not, it is possible that they flew the body in on the morning of June 25th, right after the person was pronounced dead by a doctor in Oregon/Washington/Montana. We still have that close-down at LAX that morning. Was it really someone leaving, or (also) someone arriving? It would also explain why the body was already cold and stiff, even though the room temp was that high. The person would have been dead for hours, and that is what the EMT's thought.<br /><br />It would also mean that the EMT's in the back of the ambulance, might not even be in the know. They would certainly think something is going on, but that doesn't mean they really KNOW. We think it's all fishy, and we don't know either. They might have been told that there is a shadow investigation going on by the FBI considering MJ's death and that the ambulance picture was faked for a certain reason. That is just a thought, but point is that if their supervisor tells them to shut up because the FBI is involved, they will. I do think the driver is in the know, because he backed out that slow. There is a difference between knowing something is wrong, and really KNOW about the hoax. I think only those absolutely necessary are truly knowing what's going on, because if this is a sting, there is also something like the safety of people and the operation. Who doesn't know, can't talk.<br /><br />Same goes for people in the hospital. I believe one or two people at the hospital really KNOW, the ones in the room when they brought in the body might only suspect. We haven't heard from anyone at the hospital, which shows me that they too were asked not to talk about it. And the fire alarm at the hospital made sure that only a select few would be able to see the body (damage control).<br /><br />An autopsy is not required with assisted suicide, so I don't think there even was an autopsy. The cause of death on the DC will be stated as natural, with mention of the decease. No autopsy is needed. The coroner's office knows, they have to. If he didn't slice up MJ, he knows it's a hoax, so in any case the coroner is aware of the hoax. An e-mail I received today from the coroner's office confirms that for me. It was a reply to a question I sent them in October 2009, which is extremely strange. It came from the chief of public services and I am pretty sure she receives many emails, questions and requests. An email from October 2009 would definitely be buried by now, so this tells me she saved it somewhere. Why answer now after 18 months? (still mailing, I will post it if something interesting comes up). <br /><br />So a real body would definitely bring the number of people in on it down.<br /><br /><br />As for a living person (MJ or double) or no one at all being in the ambulance, that would increase the people in on it. You can't perform CPR on a person that is perfectly fine or non-exsisting, which means it was all a show and anyone in the room at Carolwood, the EMT's and everyone present in the hospital are in the know. Also, MJ or the double should leave the hospital at a certain moment, and with all the fans and paparazzi present there, that would be way too risky. I don't believe that they would take such a risk.<br /><br />A real body might not be 'entertaining', but if this is a sting operation, it simply might have been necessary.<br /><br />On a sidenote: I think Alberto Alvarez is an FBI agent and maybe the other bodyguards as well. <br /><br />So in a nutshell, here is what I think might have occured that day:<br /><br />Early morning: Terminally ill patient ends his life by self-administering lethal medications. He is pronounced dead by a doctor, they made sure everything was done according to the rules, and they put him on a plane to LAX to transport him later on to Carolwood Drive. There he is placed on the bed in the heated room, the bottles of propofol, the IV and everything else was planted and Murray and Alvarez waited until 12:21 to call '911'. I think it was a fake call to make sure the right ambulance with the informed driver would be sent. Ambulance 71 goes to the mansion, EMT's see dead person, scratch themselves behind their ears but have no other choice then to try and resuscitate the body, since Murray is the higher authority. They bring the body to UCLA, where Cooper is the higher authority and can make sure death won't be called until the planned time of 2:26 pm. The body stayed at the UCLA morgue and nothing was transported to the coroner, which is why there was no need for a real body bag. It does mean the helicopter crew is in the know, plus the people present at that time at the coroner's office. The one sitting up in the helicopter could have been anyone. I think the person was buried on July 6th, since we have a video of the Jacksons at a burial at FL on that day. INFORMED about the hoax/sting on that day: Murray, bodyguards (FBI agents?), ambulance driver (does anyone know who that was? I only heard 2 names and 3 were present), Chief of LAFD Barry (resigned on May 28th, 2009 and left office on August 1, 2009 after only 2 years: <!-- m -->http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-c ... 8069.story<!-- m -->) and Chief of LAPD Bratton (who resigned in August 2009, leaving in October, with 3 years left of his 5-year term: <!-- m -->http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-b ... 4648.story<!-- m -->) Ben Evenstad and his colleague, Dr. Cooper, the helicopter crew and the Coroner's office. So except from the family those are mostly government agencies and only a few civilians. <br /><br />This means less people in the know. Some might suspect things, but I don't think you can avoid that, but you can make sure the number of people informed about the hoax is as low as possible. Of all the options (MJ, double, dummy, real corpse or nothing) a real corpse will have the less people involved, because I really don't think professional medical experts would be fooled with a dummy and IF they could be fooled with a dummy, they would have made sure the dummy looked like MJ, but it didn't.<br />
<br /><br />I am sorry you are getting very angry at me. It is not my intention to incite anger or be offensive. I am not the one who is ignoring these posts. TS_comments is the one who disregarded them all and posted his own version. TS_comments has many times in the past quoted someone or redirected to someone's post who got the right answer. Why did he not do that this time if the answers had all been posted already? Why did he not do that if it was important that we independently get the right answers? Why did he not end Level 7 last year if Souza had already posted all the right answers?
First of all sorry for this long post, but maybe you guys will feel like reading it, I will write it anyway:) This has always been a very irritating subject to me, as much as I try to be on Michael's side and to be proven wrong in my arguments, I can't ignore the logic side of this issue for some very clear realistic reasons seen from a citizen's point of view. I'd gladly fake my death tomorrow to escape this slavery system we all live in, but...<br /><br />I'll never understand how faking your death does not generate a crime if not more. Wouldn't it be easy for all of us living like this then? Outside of a political , economical, social system where duties consisting of taxes & obeying laws(absurd sometimes) are far more numerous than the rights offered by this infected system?<br /><br />The majority on forums and news sticks around the "standard" answer: "if you are trying to fraudulently obtain a financial benefit or avoid a financial obligation by faking your death, it would likely constitute a crime" or "I can't find in the book where does it say it's a crime". But this is such a simplistic and unprofesional approach. Till we get there, what do we do with that death certificate for instance? If you fake your death , you do it with the help of others, family and/or institutions in charge. Someone must lie for sure, lie in front of authorities or bribing the authorities. How is this not a crime and a major one I must add. That death certificate is not just out of the blue,it is written upon a fabricated evidence either by faker himself, by his family friends, false witnesses or without any of them, directly bribing those in charge with releasing the certificate (doctors , coroner, police, Court in some cases).<br /><br />But let's simply ignore the death certificate (otherwise essential for a faked death) and let's only apply the principle which says if I don't avoid a financial obligation then it's ok. This is a false principle. When you are alive, you are held to financial and social obligations not matter what. If I am late with changing my ID while moving I pay a fine, If I'm late with paying some social taxes which i must pay because i am alive even if I never use anyway, I am being penalized big money, all this just because I exist, just because I LIVE and I am not registered dead yet.<br /><br />So the idea that if I'm fake dead and I don't earn money then I don't have obligations is very deceving, very untrue and has no applying practice when it comes to real wordl. I hate this, but as alive citizens, no matter what we do, not matter how much we earn, whether we like it or not, we held to obligations applying to all people living in a society. Even when not earning a penny you must still record your paper where you say, "this year I haven't earned a penny". Otherwise you avoid the law and pay a consequence, bigger or minor, doesn't even matter, it's the principle of breaking a law I'm talking about. So despite of everything, faking your death is a crime by the way you get a false certificate and secondly generates other crimes less or more important concerning your citizen duties, duties you've managed to trick exactly because of this fake status. <br /><br />Let alone if i sign a contract in which I am conditioned to pay an amount of money if I don't honor that contract; I choose to play dead instead, avoid that big penalty and escape that duties I've signed for, all at the same time. Smart, but if this isn't a fraud then what is. If such thing would be allowed, what legal power would contracts have anyway. What if the person I engage in a contract would be able to fake their death anytime they decide to escape the agreements while avoiding the clauses from our contract? Of course, this can't be ever legal and the reasons would be clear. Business deals would never exist if such thing possible and capitalism never invented. I may go too far now but I want to show the frauds a fake death generates even if the action itself is not enacted as crime.<br /><br />Nowadays, under this slavery system, pretending to be dead would be a much easier living at one point, but for this you must have enough money to run your way out in a non-legal way. I know we hate this, because here we have Michael involved, but our love for him shouldn't make us less objective. This is not okay, which is why you or I can't and never will be able to do it without fearing consequence, which is why you and I never thought of it and didn't even cross our minds as a solution, not to us, not to many.<br /><br />In my opinion a fake death can't generate a crime only when it's done by mistake, in exmple the family who wrongly identified a body or the police wrongly conducting a case. In situations where you deceive authorities on purpose with the intention of being registered as dead (and not as a prank or anything that doesn't involve a death certificate) it is obviously includes an illegal way. Otherwise we would be all able to just fake or deaths and deny the system we live in, no more taxes, no more state budgets, no more organized societies. But this is something the empowered people from Earth would never allow, on the contrary they don't know how to incept us more cips to locate and identify us.<br /><br />"I am unaware of any federal statute that would apply to an individual who fakes their own death," FBI spokesman Bill Carter told Life's Little Mysteries. Sure, there isn't a special section in criminal law dedicated to fake death, like there isn't a special section for other billions of situations happening outthere in the real world, but the law is a living energy in a specific context, using deductions, similarities, principals, logic and rationality and the methods one uses or the consequence one generates out of an action can be enough for a crime, that action doesn't have to be a crime by itself. <br /><br />This being said, I don't even want to go further and analyse Michael Jackson's faked death in its particular aspects such as the big contract he was legally bound to at the moment of his "death", the Coroner's fabricated authopsy, or the crime sentence on behalf of the imprisoned doctor upon his patient's "death". I guess the seriousness of this particular case is so obvious that it doesn't even require discussion. <br />There are some of you who see FBI involved so all these aspects don't matter to you from the start for this reason, but to me personally FBI helping MJ' death has always been a theory without any real mundane arguments and time helped me confirming my opinion. Besides, as much as MJ means to us, FBI has no competence of acting as personal bodyguard or favors for anyone unless it's professional. And so far I don't see the positive connection between this institution and Michael's persona. I guess if there were any, Michael's damaging trials would have never taken place.<br /><br />I don't know how may of you had the patience to read my long post but I'm glad if you did, because I would really like to know your opinion if you have time or interest in this topic.
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Now I have my doubts with the theory of the corpse and all the legal aspect, and in truth do not believe in movies or in sting for fanatics.
@bec...I am not angry, it takes much more than this to anger me. I don't like the insinuation that TS gave us all the answers because 1) it's not true, 2) it's the same sentiment of the 'haters' that claim we're all brainwashed, and 3) it disregards and/or diminishes the countless time and energy put in by many over the years. Quite simply, I believe it is a grossly unfair assessment...I've mentioned it before and I believe you apologized for it, which I greatly appreciated.<br /><br />As for your comments about TS not quoting people, there have been many updates, levels and redirects where he didn't...so I'm not sure why that would have any relevance now. Also, he DID specifically mention a post by Souza where she has mentioned the DWD theory before he ever did. I'm not 100% sure that the post I quoted from Souza is the one he meant...but it is a great example of why the insinuation is false. We all know how important 'timing' has been throughout all this...so to your second point, my guess would be that he didn't end the level a year ago because the timing wasn't right, for whatever reason.<br /><br />Hope that clears up my feelings on the issue.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
Unfortunately, we lack the tools to realistically evaluate the legalities of the hoax. The only thing we can do is have faith in MJ that he found a way.
<br /> Why did he not end Level 7 last year if Souza had already posted all the right answers?<br />
<br /><br />Might be because Souza's findings and theory were brilliant but<br />a) were not 100% accurate <br />b) were not believed by many<br />c) early acknowledgement of principessa would demotivate others <br />d) talking 1 on 1 only was not the plan<br />e) would cause an end to main hoax course too early<br />f) would interrupt the process of keeping contact with many<br />g) would interfere with termination of other important project areas (business, contracts, law suits, finances, family projects etc.)<br />g) were simply not meeting his (time) schedule<br />h) ...<br /><br /><br />
<br />Concerning the FBI's involvment, maybe it's worth to mention again that we also had this clear hint: a story titled "Fake Funerals, Empty Caskets- A Different Kind of Scam" published on the FBI's website exactly one year after MJ's hoax funeral of September 3rd 2009:<br /><br />http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />Thanks for bringing that up again. This article specifies fake funerals, death certificates, paid actors and no bodies in the caskets, all for financial gain (fraud). When TS mentioned this article, it was in his post where he said "nobody" (no body) 9 times, instead of using a variation like no one, here and there. It does make me wonder if there was an intentional subtle hint there.
<br />Concerning the FBI's involvment, maybe it's worth to mention again that we also had this clear hint: a story titled "Fake Funerals, Empty Caskets- A Different Kind of Scam" published on the FBI's website exactly one year after MJ's hoax funeral of September 3rd 2009:<br /><br />http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />Thanks for bringing that up again. This article specifies fake funerals, death certificates, paid actors and no bodies in the caskets, all for financial gain (fraud). When TS mentioned this article, it was in his post where he said "nobody" (no body) 9 times, instead of using a variation like no one, here and there. It does make me wonder if there was an intentional subtle hint there.<br />
<br /><br />Maybe it was TS' way to play the DA? :suspect: :icon_lol:
<br />Concerning the FBI's involvment, maybe it's worth to mention again that we also had this clear hint: a story titled "Fake Funerals, Empty Caskets- A Different Kind of Scam" published on the FBI's website exactly one year after MJ's hoax funeral of September 3rd 2009:<br /><br />http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/funeral-scams/financial-fraud-and-funeral-scams<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />Thanks for bringing that up again. This article specifies fake funerals, death certificates, paid actors and no bodies in the caskets, all for financial gain (fraud). When TS mentioned this article, it was in his post where he said "nobody" (no body) 9 times, instead of using a variation like no one, here and there. It does make me wonder if there was an intentional subtle hint there.<br />
<br /><br />Maybe it was TS' way to play the DA? :suspect: :icon_lol:<br />
<br /><br />Or an actual bonafide coincidence? :icon_lol:<br /><br />Oh TS, you so sneaky!
The body may have been a John Doe - they must have loads of John Does at the Coroner's - people who have no identity or family to mourn them. I may be way off track but it's a plausible solution for the body.
<br /><br />A John Doe is the most probable..... they don't have family, they are available all the time (sorry if i sound morbid) and it was easy for FBI to get it.<br /><br />If there was a body, I don't think it was of a doner because in that case that doner couldn't just die on the 25th of June to make the numbers match.
<br /><br />Yes he could. In the neighbour state Oregon, plus in Washington and Montana, assisted suicide is legal. There are some rules of course, but you can choose your own date of death. After going through the 'approval procedure', a doctor can prescribe the lethal medications to the terminally ill patient and then the patient has to administer it himself. I am just thinking about some articles like "Michael Jackson 6 months to live" (in order to get approval for assisted suicide, you must have a life expectation of 6 months or less), "MJ killed himself" "MJ looked like sick old frail man", add to that the painkiller addictions, which many terminally ill patients have and it's starting to look like assisted suicide. I sent an email to determine if it's possible for someone from one of those states to self-administer the drugs in a state where it's not (yet) legal. If not, it is possible that they flew the body in on the morning of June 25th, right after the person was pronounced dead by a doctor in Oregon/Washington/Montana. We still have that close-down at LAX that morning. Was it really someone leaving, or (also) someone arriving? It would also explain why the body was already cold and stiff, even though the room temp was that high. The person would have been dead for hours, and that is what the EMT's thought.<br /><br />It would also mean that the EMT's in the back of the ambulance, might not even be in the know. They would certainly think something is going on, but that doesn't mean they really KNOW. We think it's all fishy, and we don't know either. They might have been told that there is a shadow investigation going on by the FBI considering MJ's death and that the ambulance picture was faked for a certain reason. That is just a thought, but point is that if their supervisor tells them to shut up because the FBI is involved, they will. I do think the driver is in the know, because he backed out that slow. There is a difference between knowing something is wrong, and really KNOW about the hoax. I think only those absolutely necessary are truly knowing what's going on, because if this is a sting, there is also something like the safety of people and the operation. Who doesn't know, can't talk.<br /><br />Same goes for people in the hospital. I believe one or two people at the hospital really KNOW, the ones in the room when they brought in the body might only suspect. We haven't heard from anyone at the hospital, which shows me that they too were asked not to talk about it. And the fire alarm at the hospital made sure that only a select few would be able to see the body (damage control).<br /><br />An autopsy is not required with assisted suicide, so I don't think there even was an autopsy. The cause of death on the DC will be stated as natural, with mention of the decease. No autopsy is needed. The coroner's office knows, they have to. If he didn't slice up MJ, he knows it's a hoax, so in any case the coroner is aware of the hoax. An e-mail I received today from the coroner's office confirms that for me. It was a reply to a question I sent them in October 2009, which is extremely strange. It came from the chief of public services and I am pretty sure she receives many emails, questions and requests. An email from October 2009 would definitely be buried by now, so this tells me she saved it somewhere. Why answer now after 18 months? (still mailing, I will post it if something interesting comes up). <br /><br />So a real body would definitely bring the number of people in on it down.<br /><br /><br />As for a living person (MJ or double) or no one at all being in the ambulance, that would increase the people in on it. You can't perform CPR on a person that is perfectly fine or non-exsisting, which means it was all a show and anyone in the room at Carolwood, the EMT's and everyone present in the hospital are in the know. Also, MJ or the double should leave the hospital at a certain moment, and with all the fans and paparazzi present there, that would be way too risky. I don't believe that they would take such a risk.<br /><br />A real body might not be 'entertaining', but if this is a sting operation, it simply might have been necessary.<br /><br />On a sidenote: I think Alberto Alvarez is an FBI agent and maybe the other bodyguards as well. <br /><br />So in a nutshell, here is what I think might have occured that day:<br /><br />Early morning: Terminally ill patient ends his life by self-administering lethal medications. He is pronounced dead by a doctor, they made sure everything was done according to the rules, and they put him on a plane to LAX to transport him later on to Carolwood Drive. There he is placed on the bed in the heated room, the bottles of propofol, the IV and everything else was planted and Murray and Alvarez waited until 12:21 to call '911'. I think it was a fake call to make sure the right ambulance with the informed driver would be sent. Ambulance 71 goes to the mansion, EMT's see dead person, scratch themselves behind their ears but have no other choice then to try and resuscitate the body, since Murray is the higher authority. They bring the body to UCLA, where Cooper is the higher authority and can make sure death won't be called until the planned time of 2:26 pm. The body stayed at the UCLA morgue and nothing was transported to the coroner, which is why there was no need for a real body bag. It does mean the helicopter crew is in the know, plus the people present at that time at the coroner's office. The one sitting up in the helicopter could have been anyone. I think the person was buried on July 6th, since we have a video of the Jacksons at a burial at FL on that day. INFORMED about the hoax/sting on that day: Murray, bodyguards (FBI agents?), ambulance driver (does anyone know who that was? I only heard 2 names and 3 were present), Chief of LAFD Barry (resigned on May 28th, 2009 and left office on August 1, 2009 after only 2 years: <!-- m -->http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-c ... 8069.story<!-- m -->) and Chief of LAPD Bratton (who resigned in August 2009, leaving in October, with 3 years left of his 5-year term: <!-- m -->http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-b ... 4648.story<!-- m -->) Ben Evenstad and his colleague, Dr. Cooper, the helicopter crew and the Coroner's office. So except from the family those are mostly government agencies and only a few civilians. <br /><br />This means less people in the know. Some might suspect things, but I don't think you can avoid that, but you can make sure the number of people informed about the hoax is as low as possible. Of all the options (MJ, double, dummy, real corpse or nothing) a real corpse will have the less people involved, because I really don't think professional medical experts would be fooled with a dummy and IF they could be fooled with a dummy, they would have made sure the dummy looked like MJ, but it didn't.<br />
<br /> Why did he not end Level 7 last year if Souza had already posted all the right answers?<br />
<br /><br />Might be because Souza's findings and theory were brilliant but<br />a) were not 100% accurate <br />b) were not believed by many<br />c) early acknowledgement of principessa would demotivate others <br />d) talking 1 on 1 only was not the plan<br />e) would cause an end to main hoax course too early<br />f) would interrupt the process of keeping contact with many<br />g) would interfere with termination of other important project areas (business, contracts, law suits, finances, family projects etc.)<br />g) were simply not meeting his (time) schedule<br />h) ...<br />
<br /><br />Indeed there are infinite good possibilities. But the timeline of TIAI and the Levels is and always has been under TS/TS_comment's sole control. He has always directed the conversation and choreographed the precise topics he wants to be focused on. He comes up with the talking points and he asks the relevant questions, directing the investigation, albeit gently. Why would he ask the question (who or what went to UCLA in the ambulance) if it was too early to come up with the answer? There's plenty of other things to be discussed/plenty of other truths to be discovered, minor things, to pass the time, keep us encouraged, draw things out so the master plan is enhanced rather then threatened.<br /><br />I have questions, that's all. It doesn't make sense in my head. Things usually click into place. I can't get over the feeling that something isn't right so I listen to it. I have learned to listen to my gut and it's unsettled. i don't know why so I pick at things. I want to satisfy this nagging doubt.<br /><br />The story that goes along with the sting theory feels like the plot of Moonwalker (the bad guys are out to get MJ) and I can't ignore that, especially when the evidence for a sting theory is stuff that isn't compelling for me. 333 pages can't be ignored, that's compelling... but that's not proof of a sting, it is only proof that the FBI are involved some way. Might be one guy, might be the whole organization, but it still doesn't prove there's a sting. Long ago someone pulled up the page on the FBI site devoted to the FBI's entertainment division, where the FBI work with producers and directors of TV and movies to help out as consultants. Did MJ take that opportunity to the extreme? The country is indeed broke. I imagine the FBI routinely charges a fee to entertainment divisions looking to retain their services through this program. What if MJ paid handsomely for this extreme level of "consulting"? <br /><br />If MJ is truly afraid, I don't see him talking to the media about it (for years of apparently doing nothing otherwise), and allowing himself to be portrayed in public to TPTB as a scared prey animal looking over his shoulder all the time, not to mention giving the media vultures that kind of story to sell. Why should they profit off his very real danger? I see him, like anyone else really, going to the authorities and asking for protection. He has 3 young children, how can he risk inaction if he feels his life is in danger? He must go to the authorities. And if not in the US, why not in Bahrain where he feels safe (presumably) or Ireland where he found solace? Or Japan, who apparently are very sympathetic to and fond of MJ. It just doesn't fit with MJ's track record that he go to the media to help him with a very real danger.<br /><br />@btc, I am glad you are not angry. TS_comments attested up until the very end that the body vs. dummy/liveMJ debate was not settled, and the level that sparked the debate was in fact Level 3, I think some have recalled. It makes me wonder why, then, was "who or what went in the ambulance" Level 3 if it's not to be "discovered" til Level 7 which isn't to be finished until a year and a half later in 2012? Again, infinite reasons to explain the timings and transgressions that have occurred and I don't know what purpose I intend to serve by rehashing it over and over. All of this that I offer is speculation. I don't know what's right and what's real and I may have gotten it all wrong this whole time.
<br /><br />Bec, are you saying we deserve a degree in Logic and Reasoning for our 4 years of intensive study? <br /> <br /><br />
<br /><br />In regards to when I asked if anyone had read Obedience? No. I asked because the book is creepily familiar. The professor in the story could be TS and the class could be TIAI. I identified with the students and their struggle to discern the truth, the story was told from their perspectives. Interesting read. I was wondering if anyone else had read it.
There are many, many aspects not sitting right for me, too - or at least not being clear yet. No wonder in this well prepared foggy jungle.<br /><br />There are people putting pegs with valerian scent rubbed onto them somewhere into the wilderness to attract wild cat to rub their body on them. The aim is to collect lost hairs with DNA to prove genealogy of wild cat population.<br /><br />If this principle works there, it will work here too: if you want to allure a rat into potentially dangerous environment, you must give it something it really likes to overcome its cautiousness / fear. <br />A relatively successful path could be to <br />a) flatter the rat (risk: when will it stop falling for flattery?)<br />b) promise it exactly the piece of cheese it was missing so long (risk: will it look at anything else than that piece of cheese and not notice the guillotine above its head?)<br />c) make hampering bars appear smaller / yourself appear weaker to make the victory of the rat more probable (risk: will the rat believe you're weak? deliver more proof of it - shorten frequency of third party witness utterances that you're really weak thus increase the memory effect of your so said incapacity)<br />d) hold still and do nothing that could raise any questions about individual security. (risk: rat getting bored as time goes by and losing interest?)<br /><br />MJ probably did all of the above in public where he would have to meet his foes. At least the "weak, fragile, 6 months to live, drugged up, easy to handle, not capable of own decisions, 'fearing for his life' wrack" goes into that category IMO.<br />TS did not do any of the above on this board - in my perception. <br /><br />This makes sides very clear.
At least the "weak, fragile, 6 months to live, drugged up, easy to handle, not capable of own decisions, 'fearing for his life' wrack" goes into that category IMO.
<br /><br />Or was it to sell the story of his eventual death to the world and plant a bunch of back tracking rabbit holes to prompt the curious to dig deeper?<br /><br />I can't imagine the FBI would launch a sting operation spanning nearly a decade to catch an entity threatening a pop star (and I can't imagine MJ would wait years to seek their assistance either, as in a scenario where he only just got them involved in 2009). Matters of national security, yes, but this is an exorbitant amount of federal funds we are talking about here to keep up a sting operation for 8 or so years. Why would the FBI allocate the funds and resources over this length of time to protecting MJ, without resulting in even one arrest?<br /><br />I have great difficulty satisfying the numerology with the FBI sting theory and the DWD theory. I also have difficulty satisfying both with the concept that this has been planned for 20 years. I don't know how you can plan for a terminally ill fair complexion male MJ fan to make the choice to utilize DWD, in a year and month that works with the numerology of the event which is non-negotiable and somehow the FBI was able to locate this person and make the arrangements. I also don't know how you can plan for the FBI to launch a sting operation in which you can participate in to occur also in a year and month that works with the same non-negotiable time tables. It's just very difficult to accept all these things worked out in accordance with MJ's numerology, or that he was able to influence them all without fail unless he was the one ultimately in charge. Enter the FBI conducting a sting operation, MJ is no longer in charge.
At least the "weak, fragile, 6 months to live, drugged up, easy to handle, not capable of own decisions, 'fearing for his life' wrack" goes into that category IMO.
<br /><br />Or was it to sell the story of his eventual death to the world and plant a bunch of back tracking rabbit holes to prompt the curious to dig deeper?<br />
<br /><br />I think you're right, to sell the story of his eventual death. <br /><br />
on 1354659242:
<br />I can't imagine the FBI would launch a sting operation spanning nearly a decade to catch an entity threatening a pop star (and I can't imagine MJ would wait years to seek their assistance either, as in a scenario where he only just got them involved in 2009). <br />
<br /><br />I can't imagine that either. I think it was a plan that evolved over the years, probably changed as events happened, especially 2003 - 05. Thinking about Front's post - "A vision, Aug 25 2006" and probably from that point plans around dates and numerology were thought out, along with approaching FBI... didn't the family talk about wanting to go after Sneddon for malicious prosecution? I remember Mesereau saying that he told MJ to leave Neverland ranch after the verdict because he learned they were angry, and going to try again to build another molestation case. <br />idk maybe it was that in combination with other bad ass business ppl that he decided to go to the FBI later ... and maybe we'll never know, or we'll see it in a movie someday. :icon_e_confused:
Currently, the FBI's top investigative priorities are:[5]<br /><br />1.Protect the United States from terrorist attacks (see counter-terrorism);<br />2.Protect the United States against foreign intelligence operations and espionage (see counter-intelligence);<br />3.Protect the United States against cyber-based attacks and high-technology crimes (see cyber-warfare);<br />4.Combat public corruption at all levels;<br />5.Protect civil rights;<br />6.Combat transnational/national criminal organizations and enterprises (see organized crime);<br />7.Combat major white-collar crime;<br />8.Combat significant violent crime.<br />
Organizational Structure<br />The FBI is organized into five functional branches and the Office of the Director, which contains most administrative offices. Each Branch is managed by an Executive Assistant Director. Each Branch is then divided into Offices and Divisions, each headed by an Assistant Director. The various Divisions are further divided into sub Branches, led by Deputy Assisant Directors. Within these sub Branches there are various Sections headed by Section Chiefs. Section Chiefs are ranked analogous to Special Agents in Charge.<br /><br />Three of the Branches report to the Deputy Director while two report to the Associate Director. The five functions Branches of the FBI are:<br /><br />FBI National Security Branch<br />FBI Criminal, Cyber, Response, and Services Branch<br />FBI Science and Technology Branch<br />FBI Information and Technology Branch<br />FBI Human Resources Branch<br />
Lets also not forget that great DWD post made by Souza back in April 2011 which BTC quoted was made before the Dr Murray trial had begun. <br /><br />In fact it was posted before we even learned that the trial was going to be delayed until September that year. <br /><br />SO if the purpose WAS to always have a trial then why would TS give that much information away before the Dr M trial even began by redirecting to it. Especially if part of the purpose of the Dr M trial really was a sting operation. TS had been hinting at the use of a corpse before the trial, back in May 2010, but never in as much detail as that post by Souza.<br /><br />Yep - TS did say it was sting against the fans and the media - but TS also said it was not only those things:<br /><br />
on 1300339045:
<br /><br />Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.<br />
<br /><br />I agree BTC and RK:<br /><br />
on 1354640356:
<br />
on 1354639608:
<br />If this is all only for a movie and entertainment and there was never any real conspiracy or danger to MJ, then I hope he never bams. Because the general public and some fans will not take it well.[massive understatement] There will be backlash like he's never experienced. <br />However, if his life was threatened and there was gov't agencies cooperating and working within the hoax, then when the truth does come out, there will not be the uproar about being lied to or fooled. After all....who could blame one for doing what is necessary to survive. FBI involvement allows MJ to BAM in the appointed and perfect timing, and come out of it all vindicated, wrongs righted and most of all blameless for the whole thing. <br />
<br /><br />Completely agree with everything you said RK....from start to finish, especially the bolded part. If that's the case, that it's all just a game OR a sting against the media and fans...then for his own sake, he's better off staying 'dead' and living his life FAR away from the public eye. <br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br />
<br /><br />Yep - TS did say it was sting against the fans and the media - but TS also said it was not only those things:<br /><br />
on 1300339045:
<br /><br />Finally: is this hoax a prank, or a Thriller II reality movie, or an ARG, or a sting operation, or a Vendetta, or an NWO/EOW warning, or a wake-up call to the gullible public (don't believe everything in the media), etc--which is it? And the answer is: all of the above! It is something that people have never seen before, at least not the combination of these things and on this scale.<br />
<br />
<br /><br />Yes but he didn't say the sting operation was on more then just the fans and the media, he said the hoax was more then just a sting on the fans and the media.
Andrea, maybe TS simply meant ‘no body’ in the casket or burial, yet still one on the way to UCLA. The FBI article was talking about graveyards afterall, not the 911 dying stage.<br /><br />Paula quoted Strike<br />
Besides, as much as MJ means to us, FBI has no competence of acting as personal bodyguard or favors for anyone unless it's professional. And so far I don't see the positive connection between this institution and Michael's persona. I guess if there were any, Michael's damaging trials would have never taken place.
<br />I wondered about why they didn't intervene but just let the jury do their thing, taking that chance. :icon_e_confused:<br /><br />Ellyd, are you suggesting a sting on the FBI? Because since the very first time TS mentioned their involvement, my first reaction was that they were linked to the CIA, corrupt US government, 911 cover-up, banker money, and consequently Israel. Afterall doesn’t the buck stop at the FBI? Aren’t they the ones US citizens should fear, the final authority? I recall many movies with FBI playing a small part, and ALWAYS without fail, they are seen as the good guys, almost like angels. What if that is all a big fat lie? There’s many lies Hollywood has been telling us for decades, that I don’t want to get into here.<br /><br />Well, the thing going on in my brain since almost the beginning, is EITHER of two ways. One, this is all of the Illuminati/TPTB’s orchestration using MJ as a mind-conrolled slave since childhood, brilliantly using numerology as they have for centuries, moving behind the scenes, creating wars, dramas, social divides, seducing the public through Hollywood and the music industry, and moving us toward a scenario where MJ fulfills their Biblical Revelation prophecy for their world domination or NWO. After-all, even the Chilean minor’s story was riddled with numerology. <br /><br /> Or two, MJ is using some of ‘their’ techniques to beat them at their game, and that there are (like TS says) key secret players in each strategic place that are on side in this hoax, and that MJ has some kind of super-natural power on side for him, protecting him and covering the eyes of the enemy. On many posts, Back/Front/TS have hinted at this special protection and guidance from God. I know this sounds like a cop-out answer, just like the ‘FBI doesn’t tell MJ everything’, and ‘everybody’s in on the hoax’. But otherwise I can totally understand why this whole set-up just does not jive with the info we’ve been given. We have studied in depth the rabbit trails of all the people out to get MJ behind the scenes, which has totally convinced 95% of the MJ fan base that MJ has been murdered. Has all that been made up? The underside of web connections to other shadowy people involved in the 2005 trial run very deep, we’ve talked even the Vatican being involved. The crime rings of pedophilia involve world leaders and the most wealthy/powerful on earth. I feel there’s another layer involved that simply cannot be easily revealed to us by TS. Obviously I wouldn't be here if I truly believed the first option.
Currently, the FBI's top investigative priorities are:[5]<br /><br />1.Protect the United States from terrorist attacks (see counter-terrorism);<br />2.Protect the United States against foreign intelligence operations and espionage (see counter-intelligence);<br />3.Protect the United States against cyber-based attacks and high-technology crimes (see cyber-warfare);<br />4.Combat public corruption at all levels;<br />5.Protect civil rights;<br />6.Combat transnational/national criminal organizations and enterprises (see organized crime);<br />7.Combat major white-collar crime;<br />8.Combat significant violent crime.<br />
<br /><br /><br />
Organizational Structure<br />The FBI is organized into five functional branches and the Office of the Director, which contains most administrative offices. Each Branch is managed by an Executive Assistant Director. Each Branch is then divided into Offices and Divisions, each headed by an Assistant Director. The various Divisions are further divided into sub Branches, led by Deputy Assisant Directors. Within these sub Branches there are various Sections headed by Section Chiefs. Section Chiefs are ranked analogous to Special Agents in Charge.<br /><br />Three of the Branches report to the Deputy Director while two report to the Associate Director. The five functions Branches of the FBI are:<br /><br />FBI National Security Branch<br />FBI Criminal, Cyber, Response, and Services Branch<br />FBI Science and Technology Branch<br />FBI Information and Technology Branch<br />FBI Human Resources Branch<br />
<br /><br /><br /><br />IF there is a sting (beyond media and fans) that's been going on for years, in such an unconventional manner, it would have to be worth the FBI's while and resources. The longer the sting, the bigger the target.
<br />Andrea, maybe TS simply meant ‘no body’ in the casket or burial, yet still one on the way to UCLA. The FBI article was talking about graveyards afterall, not the 911 dying stage.<br /><br /><br />Ellyd, are you suggesting a sting on the FBI? Because since the very first time TS mentioned their involvement, my first reaction was that they were linked to the CIA, corrupt US government, 911 cover-up, banker money, and consequently Israel. Afterall doesn’t the buck stop at the FBI? Aren’t they the ones US citizens should fear, the final authority? I recall many movies with FBI playing a small part, and ALWAYS without fail, they are seen as the good guys, almost like angels. What if that is all a big fat lie? There’s many lies Hollywood has been telling us for decades, that I don’t want to get into here.<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />Who knows what TS really means at any given moment? :smiley-vault-misc-150: :icon_lol:<br /><br /><br />I had suggested a sting on the FBI by the FBI a while ago, based on the invasive role they played in MJ's life over the years. It was one of those thoughts just popped into my mind so I posted it, without considering it's plausibility. :icon_geek: <br /><br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,21319.msg427191.html#msg427191<br /><br /><br />
1.Protect the United States from terrorist attacks (see counter-terrorism);
<br /><br />See right there is the first involvement in deception. Are they supporting that Arab terrorists with newly acquired flying licenses commandeered planes into the Trade towers. Ever since then, the US government has had the excuse/okay to up security everywhere. The many engineers/demolition/pilot experts who spoke against the official story, would agree the US Commission to look into 911 was a farce and further cover-up. Of course the whole media world was complicit.
The FBI isn't equip to take down TPTB. For one reason, they are almost certainly under the control of TPTB. Every state law enforcement agency in the country answers to the FBI but the FBI answers to the Department of Justice in the United States and the Attorney General who is appointed by the President.<br /><br />The CIA is a civilian agency department of the government run by it's director that gathers intelligence. They are a little more mysterious then the FBI, but they are not subordinate to the agency. The CIA is independent and deal directly with the White House and Congress.
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