<br />No question the coroner is in on it. I saved these pics off of Craig Harvey's FB account back in 09, taken at the annual coroners party. After questioning Craig he deleted the pics. He responded to several emails though, which is odd in itself, but it seemed his main goal was to make me believe MJ was dead. Of course I acted like I believed he was dead at first just to get answers. Will find the emails as well. But here are the pics. Each table honoured a celebrity that passed away that year. Take note of MJ's pic - pretty clear they knew the pic was not him. hmmm<br /><br /><br />
NOTE to the peson who didn't understand the significance of these pictures* <br />The post on Craig's FB wall with these photos was titles "LA Coroners Annual Party". They honoured all the deceased celebs of that year (2009), with photos on each table. But when it gets to MJ, there's a pic of E'Cas... NO PHOTO OF MJ. Seems pretty clear to me. They (the coroners) could have been confused with the picture IF E'CAS' NAME WASN'T WRITTEN ACROSS IT!!!
<br />One of the points that TS is asking discredit is the ambulance, there is the idea that it used two ambulances and one of the reasons it was this video and the explanation was that in reality the end of the video is in fact the initiation.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />I see we're still divided on Dummy versus LIVE MJ<br /><br /><br />.....hung jury.... /judge/<br /><br /><br />TS.... /white flag/<br />
<br /><br /><br /> bangbang<br /><br /><br />This is a picture which has always made me wonder, remember what La Toya said once when she was on her way into LAX Airport, something about magic, look over here and its over there! :?<br /><br />Well, recently I am beginning to wonder if the "whole stretcher with all the paramedics and Dr Murray" was the distraction!!! afraid/ I know it way out there, but recently it struck me that why would that guy be holding out a coat to shield a person coming out of the ambulance as the stretcher is being wheeled into the hospital. :? The whole body shape, right down the the body language with the guy ducking down arms outstretched towards the outstretched coat, just "reminds me of the body language and posture of MJ at the 02". <br /><br /><br /> OK " IM ready SHOOT ME DOWN NOW!! ;D /white flag/ <br /><br /><br />Its been on my mind for a while now, bearhug
And this version of the arrival at UCLA? <br />Nobody's holding up a jacket and is this Doc Murray in a suit and not in a T-Shirt?<br /><br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnQx5g5lwAE
<br /><br /><br />I see we're still divided on Dummy versus LIVE MJ<br /><br /><br />.....hung jury.... /judge/<br /><br /><br />TS.... /white flag/<br />
<br /><br /><br /> bangbang<br /><br /><br />This is a picture which has always made me wonder, remember what La Toya said once when she was on her way into LAX Airport, something about magic, look over here and its over there! :?<br /><br />Well, recently I am beginning to wonder if the "whole stretcher with all the paramedics and Dr Murray" was the distraction!!! afraid/ I know it way out there, but recently it struck me that why would that guy be holding out a coat to shield a person coming out of the ambulance as the stretcher is being wheeled into the hospital. :? The whole body shape, right down the the body language with the guy ducking down arms outstretched towards the outstretched coat, just "reminds me of the body language and posture of MJ at the 02". <br /><br /><br /> OK " IM ready SHOOT ME DOWN NOW!! ;D /white flag/ <br /><br /><br />Its been on my mind for a while now, bearhug<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Okay, you are NOT the only one who's had... thoughts.... about that shot. o-o<br />Me too.<br />And several other people, so I've heard-<br /><br /><br />A while back, someone said that in the video footage of this scene- the 'body' being rolled into UCLA- they SWORE they saw what looked like the 'dead body' move and/or sit up.<br />If anyone could post a viddie of where this image here came from, that would be great.<br /><br /><br /><br />So, if that is NOT a dummy, if it were MJ's live body trying to be dead before he makes his escape (to the airport, you see- thanks, Jermaine 8-) ), perhaps he moved- and the dude with the coat is trying to cover this from the public view.<br /><br /><br />Possible? :shock: <br />
<br /><br /><br />I see we're still divided on Dummy versus LIVE MJ<br /><br /><br />.....hung jury.... /judge/<br /><br /><br />TS.... /white flag/<br />
<br /><br /><br /> bangbang<br /><br /><br />This is a picture which has always made me wonder, remember what La Toya said once when she was on her way into LAX Airport, something about magic, look over here and its over there! :?<br /><br />Well, recently I am beginning to wonder if the "whole stretcher with all the paramedics and Dr Murray" was the distraction!!! afraid/ I know it way out there, but recently it struck me that why would that guy be holding out a coat to shield a person coming out of the ambulance as the stretcher is being wheeled into the hospital. :? The whole body shape, right down the the body language with the guy ducking down arms outstretched towards the outstretched coat, just "reminds me of the body language and posture of MJ at the 02". <br /><br /><br /> OK " IM ready SHOOT ME DOWN NOW!! ;D /white flag/ <br /><br /><br />Its been on my mind for a while now, bearhug<br />[/quote]<br /><br />UCLA distracting from LAX, I'm all for it
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I see we're still divided on Dummy versus LIVE MJ<br /><br /><br />.....hung jury.... /judge/<br /><br /><br />TS.... /white flag/<br />
<br /><br /><br /> bangbang<br /><br /><br />This is a picture which has always made me wonder, remember what La Toya said once when she was on her way into LAX Airport, something about magic, look over here and its over there! :?<br /><br />Well, recently I am beginning to wonder if the "whole stretcher with all the paramedics and Dr Murray" was the distraction!!! afraid/ I know it way out there, but recently it struck me that why would that guy be holding out a coat to shield a person coming out of the ambulance as the stretcher is being wheeled into the hospital. :? The whole body shape, right down the the body language with the guy ducking down arms outstretched towards the outstretched coat, just "reminds me of the body language and posture of MJ at the 02". <br /><br /><br /> OK " IM ready SHOOT ME DOWN NOW!! ;D /white flag/ <br /><br /><br />Its been on my mind for a while now, bearhug<br />
<br /><br />UCLA distracting from LAX, I'm all for it <br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />And why something as complicated as leaving the house by ambulance, arriving at the hospital and after they leave the hospital in a helicopter if Michael could have come out of the house the night before or after when everything else he had calmed ..and if the entry of the hospital is in reality a scenario created? /pull hair/<br />
<br />And this version of the arrival at UCLA? <br />Nobody's holding up a jacket and is this Doc Murray in a suit and not in a T-Shirt?<br /><br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnQx5g5lwAE<br />
<br /><br />Why does this version have to be so blurred? <br /><br />And why does it look like something is already wrapped in a white sheet on the gurney if MJ is laying on it? :?
<br /><br /><br /> bangbang<br /><br /><br />This is a picture which has always made me wonder, remember what La Toya said once when she was on her way into LAX Airport, something about magic, look over here and its over there! :?<br /><br />Well, recently I am beginning to wonder if the "whole stretcher with all the paramedics and Dr Murray" was the distraction!!! afraid/ I know it way out there, but recently it struck me that why would that guy be holding out a coat to shield a person coming out of the ambulance as the stretcher is being wheeled into the hospital. :? The whole body shape, right down the the body language with the guy ducking down arms outstretched towards the outstretched coat, just "reminds me of the body language and posture of MJ at the 02". <br /><br /><br /> OK " IM ready SHOOT ME DOWN NOW!! ;D /white flag/ <br /><br /><br />Its been on my mind for a while now, bearhug<br />
<br /><br />UCLA distracting from LAX, I'm all for it <br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />And why something as complicated as leaving the house by ambulance, arriving at the hospital and after they leave the hospital in a helicopter if Michael could have come out of the house the night before or after when everything else he had calmed ..and if the entry of the hospital is in reality a scenario created? /pull hair/<br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />If the photo of the ambulance was " another day", who can say that this scene to the entry in the hospital can also be 'another day " and to put more suspense to the scene of the hospital the man coming out of the ambulance and that moment is short in due course /pull hair/
<br /><br /><br />Watch the ambulance door towards the end of the frame<br /><br /><br />There also appears to be someone else stepping out of the ambulance dressed in Black and White with a hoodie. <br /><br />....Who is that?..... And how many people were in that ambulance? :shock:
Maybe a little off topic, but since E'cas and Craig Harvey are mentioned, I'd like to throw this in. I think we have seen E'cas more often in recent years than we have seen Michael himself. He's a good double and I think he is very capable of fooling the masses. Look at the following picture, MJ & E'Cas, or all E'cass??? <br /><br /><br /><br />As for Craig Harvey: badkolo, Mo and I had some email correspondence with him back in 2009. I will copy and paste some of it here because the info might be helpful:<br /><br />About why certain stuff was blocked on the death certificate (08/27/2009):<br /><br />
I am not sure why some of the information is redacted. The death certificate is a State of California document, not a Coroner or County of Los Angeles document. They set the rules on what they deem as “private or confidential”. I can understand redacting surviving family names and addresses and social security numbers, but some of the other stuff escapes my logic capacity.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI<br />Chief Coroner Investigator & Chief of Operations
<br /><br />About the fake autopsy picture that was on the net back in 2009, the one with the brain being removed (08/28/2009):<br /><br />
It is not a picture taken at our office. None of the protective apparel worn matches what we wear and the water faucet is brass and everything in our office is stainless. We do a “Y” incision on the body and this is a straight line incision. There is a person in the background wearing civilian clothes with no protective apparel which we would not allow inside of an autopsy suite. The sides of the autopsy table are higher than ours and it appears to be a fixed table and all of ours are slightly slanted and on wheels.<br /> <br />My opinion is that the photo is not authentic and I base that on the area of the photo where the brain is being removed and there is “blood” on the lower portion (top) of the brain, but the upper (bottom) of the brain is “blood” free. The person’s hands are “blood” free and there are dark lines under the decedent’s neck area with whatever is under the neck/head area. The removal of the brain would not be quite so tidy.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />Here is email correspondence between badkolo and Craig Harvey about whether the body was MJ's or not. (08/27/2009):<br /><br />
Dear Mr.Harvey,<br /> <br /> My name is *** and I want to apologize before hand for taking up any of your time. I'm Writing a report for my own studies and while I am sure theorists must be bombarding you with questions pertaining to the Michael Jackson case I have one question which I hope you can assist me on. According to documents, Michael Jackson was processed by you and at your facilities. Can you without a doubt state that the body that was handled and the prints that where taken are those of the entertainer Michael Jackson. Basically I am asking if you can confirm That Michael Jackson has actually passed away and the body processed was his.<br /><br /><br />I appreciate your time and I thank you in advance, ***
<br /><br />
I can make that statement without any doubt whatsoever.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
OK so your saying that YES in fact you can confirm he is indeed dead?
<br /><br />
That is correct.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br /><br />About the coroner's van where 'MJ' jumped out of:<br /><br />
That is not our van in the video. It is obvious to me that it belongs to a production/prop company.<br /> <br />California “Exempt” plated vehicles no longer have an “E” enclosed in an octagon preceding the number. Due to the number of exempt vehicles in California, the exempt plate is all numerals (I believe 7 digits) and the word “exempt” appears over the numerals, below the name of the state. The one exception might be vehicles owned by the State of California that may still have an “E” inside a diamond.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />Ed Winter claimed in another email: <br /><br />
The vehicle seen in the video is not ours. We have run the license number and it is not a valid number.
<br /><br />So that was sent to Craig Harvey, asking how it could be that both licence plates are the same:<br /><br />
On June 25th, which van are you referring to? The one that went to the helicopter?<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
Well, I also saw ONE van on June 25th... It went to the helicopter, a body was loaded into it, and off it went into the parking garage. I have attached a photo of it, and it shows the license plate with number 1236020.
<br /><br />
That is our van and the guy in blue works for me. The license plate # of the van in the video is (from what I have been able to discern) 1276021, and does not match any vehicle in our fleet.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
I'm confused now. I already knew the van in the video showing Michael Jackson jumping out of it is not yours. But that video clearly shows the same license plate number. Are you telling me there were TWO vans on June 25th?
<br /><br />
They are not the same.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
Hereby a picture of both licence plates. I loaded the photos into Photoshop and zoomed in om them. What appeared to be a 3 in the left plate is clearly a 7 when you soon in on the photo of the van next to the helicopter. <br /><br />I know the leaked video is a fake, but your office states that the licence plate number 1276020 is not of one of your vans. How come the original van from the live CNN footage has that number also? <br /><br />The licence number on the CNN-van also looks strange, because the 2's don't match, the 7 is not straight and the 6 looks written on it, it's not round at the bottom. <br /><br />Now can you tell me, is the van showed on the left (from CNN footage) your van?
<br /><br />
Do you see the bumper sticker that says “Don’t Abandon Your Baby” underneath the license plate of the van near the helicopter? Do you see it in the video? Do you see our slogan on the side of the van in the video “Law and Science Serving the Community”?<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
Yes, I see the sticker and I'm familiar with it. But...did you know that the man wearing black pants and a beige shirt removed it from the van before they pulled away from the helicopter? Please, have a look at this video, and pay attention as from 6.14 until 6.40. You can clearly see that this man removes the sticker, folds it in his hands and then gets back into the van. <br /><br />Here is the link to the video:
<br /><br />
He took off his disposable gloves. The door opening handle is located inside the license plate frame area.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
But that leaves these questions unanswered:<br /><br />I know the leaked video is a fake, but your office states that the licence plate number 1276020 is not of one of your vans. How come the original van from the live CNN footage has that number also? <br /><br />The licence number on the CNN-van also looks strange, because the 2's don't match, the 7 is not straight and the 6 looks written on it, it's not round at the bottom. <br /><br />Now can you tell me, is the van showed on the left (from CNN footage) your van?
<br /><br />I can't see an answer to that, so I think he never answered it. <br /><br />About the DC and it not being signed by a doctor:<br /><br />
The issue as to whether a person’s death falls under the jurisdiction of the Coroner under California law depends on the immediate/suspected cause of death. In certain cases, a private physician may sign a death certificate and the Coroner need not be involved. These deaths are always due to natural causes. In other cases, by law, only the Coroner can sign the death certificate due to the immediate or suspected cause/manner of death, e.g. gunshot wound, hanging, accident, suicide, homicide, etc.<br /> <br />The term “under the care of a doctor” or “had a doctor in attendance” means on its’ face that a person had been seen by a physician for a minimum specific period of time and that physician had a medical opinion as to the cause of death. It does not necessarily mean that there was a physician physically standing next to the patient when they died. In most cases, ER doctors do not sign death certificates for the many patients they pronounce dead upon arrival or shortly thereafter each year at their hospitals. Either they legally cannot sign a death certificate due to the cause of death or they simply have limited information on which to base a medical opinion.<br /> <br />Because no physician came forward to sign a death certificate, the Coroner had to be notified. Even if a physician had come forward to sign a death certificate, the cause of death would have to be based on documented/known medical history and due to natural causes with no external factors involved. If someone had signed a death certificate with inaccurate information, other physicians who know the patient or family members could contact the Coroner and the Coroner could take jurisdiction if the information is found to have merit.<br /> <br />[size=18pt]Lastly, the vast majority (99%) of physicians will not jeopardize their profession or their livelihood by signing a bogus death certificate. They have too much at stake should their fraud be detected and reported.[/size]<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />After being asked why he said after MJ's death: ""I am here to announce that the coroner has concluded the autopsy for mister Michael Jackson" instead of on mister Michael Jackson?<br /><br />
It is probably mostly semantics. I suspect it has to do with keeping in mind that our clients are people first not an object.<br /> <br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />Who is it?:<br /><br />
Dear mister Harvey,<br /><br />I have seen your statement on TV about the famous Michael Jackson autopsy.<br />There is something bothering me about your statement. At one point you say:<br /><br />I am here to announce that the coroner has concluded the autopsy for mister Michael Jackson. <br /><br />Well, shouldn't that the an autopsy on or of Michael Jackson?<br /><br />Can you confirm that the LA Coroner's Office actually performed an autopsy on the body of Michael Joseph Jackson (1958) in June 2009, or do you believe the autopsy has been performed by another coroner's office?<br />
<br /><br />
It is probably mostly semantics. I suspect it has to do with keeping in mind that our clients are people first not an object.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
That is understandable, I know that things can be taken differently. It's good to know that you still see your clients as persons, and not objects. But can you please answer my other question? After that I promise I won't bother you again.<br /><br />Can you confirm that the LA Coroner's Office actually performed an autopsy on the body of Michael Joseph Jackson (1958) in June 2009, or do you believe the autopsy has been performed by another coroner's office?
<br /><br />
I can confirm that the Los Angeles County Department of Coroner performed the autopsy on Mr. Jackson.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
You are a smart man mister Harvey, I thought you would say that, that is why I asked specifically about mr. Michael Joseph Jackson, born on August 29, 1958, died June 25, 2009. Can you confirm that the Los Angeles County Department of Coroner performed the autopsy on that specific person?<br /><br />Because rumor has it that Mr. Ed Winter said that the licence plate number on the coroner's van is not a valid one and is not a van of your office.<br />
<br /><br />
I don’t understand what one has to do with the other.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
If the van at the helicopter as we have seen on the live CNN footage was not an official coroner's van, there is a big reason to look at all the other stuff too surrounding his death. I'm not saying he isn't, but a lot of things don't add up here. So I will try once again:<br /><br />Can you confirm that the Los Angeles County Department of Coroner performed the autopsy on the body of Michael Joseph Jackson (born August 29, 1958, died June 35, 2009), or do you believe the autopsy has been performed by another coroner's office?
<br /><br />
The van at the helicopter was an official Coroner van and was a 2007 Ford. The video depicts a Ford van, but there are obvious differences between that van and our vans. The van in the video is clearly a production/prop van belonging to a studio or company that provides vehicles to film productions.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
OK fair enough, but my most important question is still unanswered, let me try again:<br /><br />Can you confirm that the Los Angeles County Department of Coroner performed the autopsy on the body of Michael Joseph Jackson (born August 29, 1958, died June 25, 2009), or do you believe the autopsy has been performed by another coroner's office?<br />
<br /><br />
Yes I can confirm that and no I do not believe that the autopsy was performed by another Coroner’s office.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br />
Thank you, and of course I meant June 25, not 35. Can you also confirm that the body of Michael Jackson that you office performed an autopsy on was without doubt the body of Michael Joseph Jackson?
<br /><br />No answer after that.<br /><br />With a miss Gonzalez regarding the leaked AR (April 2011):<br /><br />
I read some media articles concerning the autopsy result of Michael Jackson. Are these real, or again fake ones?<br />Also, why aren't we hearing anything about the second autopsy?<br /><br />Last question. Since Michael Jackson's legal name is Michael Joe Jackson, instead of Michael Joseph Jackson, wouldn't that mean the death certificate is invalid? I found a document from the government where it says that ones TRUE NAME should be stated, with aka's if relevant.
<br /><br />
The official coroner report for Mr. Jackson is available to the public for $82.00. [size=18pt]Our Department did not perform the second autopsy[/size].<br /> <br />If you are interested in ordering a copy of the Coroner report, please send the abovementioned fee to:
<br /><br />
I don't understand. Wasn't the autopsy report already published in the media?
<br /><br />
The media has obtained a copy from our office. I am aware that copies are floating around. You are more than welcome to look for it in that manner. However, if you would like a complete, official copy from our office, the fee for it is $82.00.<br /> <br />Silvia Gonzalez
<br /><br />
Hello ms Gonzalez,<br /><br />I understand, but that copy would be no different than the one I have already, right?<br /><br />If I have questions about the autopsy report, who can I contact for that?
<br /><br />
I wouldn’t be able to tell you if what you have is the same unless I took a look at it. As for who you can contact, that would depend on the nature of the question. If your questions is related to the autopsy, you may contact Dr. Rogers at (323) 343-0715. If the question is related to the field investigation, you may contact Investigator Fleak at (323) 343-0714. All other questions, please contact (323) 343-0512 and they will try and assist you.<br /> <br />Thank you.<br /> <br />Silvia Gonzalez
<br /><br />
Do you know why the report wasn't sealed? This is a homicide case and the case is not closed yet. Is it standard procedure to release an autopsy report before a homicide investigation is completed? The report was obtained by TMZ pretty soon after it was finalized and the investigation was still on-going.<br /><br />This is the copy I have of the report: http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0208_mj_case_report_wm.pdf. I would appreciate it if you could check if it is the report coming from your office.<br /><br />Could you give me the email addresses of Dr. Rogers and Investigator Fleak?
<br /><br />Again, no answer after that.<br /><br />I just thought I'd throw that in here, maybe it helps. Harvey denies there was a second autopsy, Gonzalez said they didn't perform the second auopsy. And I think Harvey's answer about the bogus DC says enough, i.e. read between the lines.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Yes, MJ could be that last hoodie guy stepping off as well.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Ijustcantstoploving<br />
[size=9pt]<br /> This is a picture which has always made me wonder, remember what La Toya said once when she was on her way into LAX Airport, something about magic, look over here and its over there! [/size][size=9pt]Well, recently I am beginning to wonder if the "whole stretcher with all the paramedics and Dr Murray" was the distraction!!! [/size]
<br />E'Cas could totally be sitting up on the stretcher, since we don't get a really good look at him (nor at any of the so-called MJ sightings that day). And in fact he could have volunteered to be wrapped in breathable sheets from start to finish (healthy alive of course).<br />Which brings me back to say that the lower legs on Murray going into the hospital seem extra long to me... <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />Watch the ambulance door towards the end of the frame<br /><br /><br />There also appears to be someone else stepping out of the ambulance dressed in Black and White with a hoodie. <br /><br />....Who is that?..... And how many people were in that ambulance? :shock:<br />
<br /><br />You mean this one?<br /><br /><br /><br />I wonder that too. Definitely something like a fedora on his head or whatever it is he's covering his head with, but unfortunately we have no stills after this shot. But if that's Mike, that means he's not on the stretcher. If it's not him, then what's up with the fedora and the security guy protecting him with his jacket? Hmmmmmmmmmm.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />I'm probably a little late in bringing this up but doesn't the "no body" theory conflict with the LAX airport evidence (ie: the escape theory)? The moving body on the stretcher (which looks to me like the body was being moved rather than moving on it's own) technically happened when Michael was already "at the airport". I'm still a proponent of the double died theory mostly because I see how extremely dedicated MJ's fans are (especially the impersonators). In fact, I'd say the double theory is much more simplistic than the no body theory (which would involve a lot more parties that would need to keep their mouths shut.) I don't think Michael directly killed the person (being optimistic at least) they were just willing to take MJ's place in the bed while Murray (and the other forces behind the death) did what they did. Michael was probably staying somewhere else that night and would later leave for the airport the next day. Murray probably recognized that the man he killed wasn't Michael Jackson and believed that could help him win the case (more or less). <br />The discrepancies in the testimonies are probably due to the double body AS WELL AS the a few of the people in the coroner's office and hospital being in the know (but not all of them). The dead body is needed for "everyone else". <br />I would argue that the "no body" theory is actually more diabolical than the real body theory. Michael controlling and influencing all of these people to pull off the hoax (no matter how "noble" the cause is) seems scary to me for the same reason I'm against the religion "Michael the Messiah" theories. That seem almost illuminati-esque (what better way for them to control us by planting a mole in the resistance) but I digress. <br /><br />As far as the numerology goes perhaps many of those pieces of evidence were intentionally faked to pull off the hoax the Doctor at UCLA was possibly in on it but not the rest. A few people at the coroners were probably in on it but not all of them.<br />
<br /><br />you say a 'real body' theory is less complicated than a no body theory... really?? i mean ethical dilema is just the start of the myriad of issues that a real body theory can pose... a dummy is far less complicated than a real body. and the comment abt escape LAX still applies if there was a dummy...<br /><br />you say the 'body' was for everyone elses benefit. really? did we see the body? or did we see a bunch of poorly maniplulated low grade photoshopped images... so poor they could have been a dummy, or mj posing, or a mish mash of mj pics sudperimposed to create image...<br /><br />regarding the michael manipulating to be able to pull off this hoax, you have to realise that he is one of the few people on earth who would be able to do this, with resources and people in the right places, money etc that would enable him to do this.<br /><br />re: illuminati - not even going there in detail. but mj spoke abt these things himself. these are no mere theories posted on MJDHI forum. is just one example that he references.<br /><br />and as for the numerogly - there have been too many incidences for it to me coincidence. its all planned down to the last digit.
<br /><br />And why something as complicated as leaving the house by ambulance, arriving at the hospital and after they leave the hospital in a helicopter if Michael could have come out of the house the night before or after when everything else he had calmed ..and if the entry of the hospital is in reality a scenario created? /pull hair/<br /><br /><br />If the photo of the ambulance was " another day", who can say that this scene to the entry in the hospital can also be 'another day " and to put more suspense to the scene of the hospital the man coming out of the ambulance and that moment is short in due course /pull hair/<br />
<br /><br /><br />@paulac <br /><br />i agree with you 100%. why make it so complicated. why not go from carolwood straight to LAX. why go to UCLA at all. not nessesary if all photos were staged on other days. which means has to be a dummy in bag.<br /><br />but then in the heli where the bag 'sits up' indicates person inside. so that then confuses me. there had to be a switch.<br /><br />
on 1321467204:
<br />NOTE to the peson who didn't understand the significance of these pictures* <br />The post on Craig's FB wall with these photos was titles "LA Coroners Annual Party". They honoured all the deceased celebs of that year (2009), with photos on each table. But when it gets to MJ, there's a pic of E'Cas... NO PHOTO OF MJ. Seems pretty clear to me. They (the coroners) could have been confused with the picture IF E'CAS' NAME WASN'T WRITTEN ACROSS IT!!!<br />
<br /><br /><br />@MSGITM - thank you. have never seen this before. its brilliant. love you! /bravo/ <br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />Watch the ambulance door towards the end of the frame<br /><br /><br />There also appears to be someone else stepping out of the ambulance dressed in Black and White with a hoodie. <br /><br />....Who is that?..... And how many people were in that ambulance? :shock:<br />
<br /><br />You mean this one?<br /><br /><br /><br />I wonder that too. Definitely something like a fedora on his head or whatever it is he's covering his head with, but unfortunately we have no stills after this shot. But if that's Mike, that means he's not on the stretcher. If it's not him, then what's up with the fedora and the security guy protecting him with his jacket? Hmmmmmmmmmm.<br />
<br /><br />Yup, That would be the one. :shock:<br /><br />Great .... now we have two phantom figures in the picture....one on the stretcher and one coming out of the ambulance.<br /><br />Which one is MJ? suspicious//<br /><br /> /white flag/
The van at the helicopter was an official Coroner van and was a 2007 Ford. The video depicts a Ford van, but there are obvious differences between that van and our vans. The van in the video is clearly a production/prop van belonging to a studio or company that provides vehicles to film productions.<br /> <br />Craig R. Harvey, F-ABMDI
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Everything is a film nothing of what we saw the June 25 happened that day
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> afraid/ HOLY--!<br />THAT'S the scene I was talking about! Either here, or there or some other thread... I'm lost now. XD<br /><br /><br /><br />But is that not amazing?<br />How can non-believers explain this? Who's that, WHY does he need to be covered with a coat?<br />And why, covered up in such a... MJ w/bodyguard-ish fashion?<br /><br /><br />So clever, too, because anyone can miss this...<br /><br /><br /><br /> :idea:
<br /><br /> afraid/ HOLY--!<br />THAT'S the scene I was talking about! Either here, or there or some other thread... I'm lost now. XD<br /><br /><br /><br />But is that not amazing?<br />How can non-believers explain this? Who's that, WHY does he need to be covered with a coat?<br />And why, covered up in such a... MJ w/bodyguard-ish fashion?<br /><br /><br />So clever, too, because anyone can miss this...<br /><br /><br /><br /> :idea:<br />
<br /><br />Exactly, why would anyone need to be shielded from the camera's? If Michael's life were in peril, would you care if the media is snapping pictures? :?<br /><br />He also came out last...was that intentional? Or was this person sitting further up front in the ambulance. <br /><br />So who is this mysterious person?
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> afraid/ HOLY--!<br />THAT'S the scene I was talking about! Either here, or there or some other thread... I'm lost now. XD<br /><br /><br /><br />But is that not amazing?<br />How can non-believers explain this? Who's that, WHY does he need to be covered with a coat?<br />And why, covered up in such a... MJ w/bodyguard-ish fashion?<br /><br /><br />So clever, too, because anyone can miss this...<br /><br /><br /><br /> :idea:<br />
<br /><br />Call me crazy......but, if Michael is in this scene, I think he just might be the paramedic wheeling the gurney in....the one with darker hair and sort of slouched inward. Something about his walk, his "posterior " :oops: I wrote this once before....I can't believe I am writing it again, I am ten shades of red right now Sooo.....that's what I think on this picture.....it's too obvious otherwise for me. But, Michael wheeling himself in, that I'd buy.<br /><br />Blessings Always
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> afraid/ HOLY--!<br />THAT'S the scene I was talking about! Either here, or there or some other thread... I'm lost now. XD<br /><br /><br /><br />But is that not amazing?<br />How can non-believers explain this? Who's that, WHY does he need to be covered with a coat?<br />And why, covered up in such a... MJ w/bodyguard-ish fashion?<br /><br /><br />So clever, too, because anyone can miss this...<br /><br /><br /><br /> :idea:<br />
<br /><br />Call me crazy......but, if Michael is in this scene, I think he just might be the paramedic wheeling the gurney in....the one with darker hair and sort of slouched inward. Something about his walk, his "posterior " :oops: I wrote this once before....I can't believe I am writing it again, I am ten shades of red right now Sooo.....that's what I think on this picture.....it's too obvious otherwise for me. But, Michael wheeling himself in, that I'd buy.<br /><br />Blessings Always<br />
<br /><br />OMG...I was literally just writing the exact same thing as you Wishingstar!! "If" I had to pick, I'd say that MJ would be that ambulance guy also..notice how the bodyguard steps in front of him fast, to cause a distraction, making you believe that he is trying to hide the guy coming out of the ambulance! MJ "Hiding in Plain sight", would be my guess.<br /><br />Although to me this is "irrelevant" in the BIG Picture...JMO though.<br /><br />Blessings and LOVE to all!!
The bodyguard isn't shielding this guy from the cameras... unless the media are INSIDE the ER... which they're not. He looks like an unauthorized member of the media to me... with a camera, which the bodyguard is shielding with his coat. I don't even know that he's coming out of the back of the ambulance.<br /><br />We kicked this around like crazy 2 years ago. It never went anywhere. MJ is on the stretcher, clearly. He's right there. Why ditch this crystal clear image in favor of some obscure half a frame who-knows-who guy clearly having his view of the stretcher obstructed? Distractions.<br /><br />And this is how it goes until TS floats back in to say who's right and who's missing the boat and grant us a puzzle piece... or not. The theories... they get a little out there in left field sometimes.<br /><br />To me it's pretty clear, more clear then it's been in 2 years. But that's just me and it's entirely possible I'm this confident because I'm a lunatic.
What if the termanlly ill person/double had actully died a few days before hand or a day or two before hand? I'm leaning towards a dead body of some kind being sent to UCLa (not MJs).
Comments
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."