BeTheChange, there are 2 possible explanations for that.<br /><br />When you watch the ambulance footage in it's entirety, once the ambulance pulls away you will see that a pickup truck is the first vehicle that follows it, not the tour bus.<br /><br />In the brief view we get down the street from the running cameraman and wildly swinging camera, we do see a pickup truck parked in the middle of the street.<br /><br />This can be explained in one of two ways.<br /><br />Either the perspective is such that the tour bus was always pulled over to the side, leaving a clear roadway, though it appeared from the camera angle that it was just beside the firetruck... or the tour bus pulled over specifically to allow the pickup (and any other vehicles that might come along in the time the bus was waiting) to pass.<br /><br />Either makes sense because... the tour bus intended to allow it's tourist passengers to watch the proceedings so of course the driver would pull over. They aren't likely to park smack in the middle of the street at any point along their tour. It's inconsiderate to other drivers and incidentally against the law.<br /><br />Now perhaps the initial stop was hampered by parked vehicles (red car/firetruck) and the tour bus had to monetarily park in the roadway. But as seconds turned to minutes and they were still waiting for "the show" to start, the driver decided to pull forward or back to park and allow traffic a lane to pass, necessitating backing up to a clear spot along the curb so the driver could park.<br /><br />So either the bus was always on the far right side of it's lane, and it was only angle and perspective that made it appear to be right beside the firetruck... or as the moment grew longer, the driver decided to park and this event was not captured on camera.<br /><br />Either way, the pickup truck DOES pass the bus at some point and in some facet, and it IS depicted in the wild running camera footage poised and ready to pass as soon as the ambulance (and the paps) get out of the street.<br /><br />Remember the red car is further forward, as it is positioned beside the ambulance, which is further forward then the firetruck/tour bus), out of the way of the tour bus and not blocking it's driver's ability to park.
@bec...thanks for taking the time to explain the possibilites. With what you wrote in mind, I looked at this video again and it makes sense to me now. Thanks for helping me lay that last 'doubt' to rest ::P<br /><br /><br /><br />@Shy...thanks for your comments. I, too, appreciate everyone's input (yours included) and the time taken to 'investigate' as much as possible, even if it turns out to be a dead end. We're gonna hit some of those along the way lol...and I'm completely ok with that. With every dead end, our horizons expand...and that is never a waste.<br /><br /> bearhug<br /><br />Edited to add one of my fav quotes...seems fitting:<br /><br />~Never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game~ ::P<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
os...I am missing out on one fact and here is my question:<br /><br />What is the official indication of time for the arrival of the ambulance at UCLA? <br />
Is anyone able to answer MaryK's question? I tried to find out but Time and possibilities were Limited and I would Be interested in, too. Thanks!!
Could there be a possibility of the first vid TS quoted could be right at at least one point...the scene where you can see that tourist bus was taken before but put at the end of the vid so it looks like the bus coming later than actually happened?
<br /><br />If I'm reading this right, the ambulance left Carolwood at 1:07 and arrived at UCLA at 1:13pm.<br /><br />If that's not correct, someone please jump in.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
<br />The coroners van video becomes pointless if Michael didn't go to UCLA on 6/25/2009. Why would it even be created if it wasn't important?<br />If this has been planned for nearly 20 years I can't imaagine Michael not being all up in it to supervise. Does slipping away in a car in the middle of the night soundlike michael to you guys?<br />
<br />no it does not sound like MJ to me.<br /><br />I agree the van video was made for a reason. But i concede it may have been just for fun.<br />
<br /><br />Forgive me guys...I'm behind so this may have been covered. But this van vid was made the same date as the second autopsy pic we all saw & Souza stretched with the upside down number looking like an 8. I stated back then it was a clue and no one responded... start at time sig. 4:01<br /><br />
<br />I just came across this vid and find it extremely interesting...seems anything is possible these days with a green/blue screen. It becomes even more interesting when combined with them 'highlighting' the use of green screen during TII.<br /><br /><br /><br />How much of what we saw from BEN at Carolwood and UCLA on June 25th was real and how much was simply illusion...our 'eyes playing tricks on us'?<br /><br />It looks like the sky's the limit these days when it comes to creating illusions.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br />
<br /><br />I had started a reply to this......now I can't find it. I thought I had posted about it....my bad BTC. I actually find this video quite amazing indeed. When I wrote about who exactly would/what kind of person would need to be involved to make this hoax happen, I totally believe green screen had to be used for some parts at least. The ambulance scene is shot from different angles, with different cameras. Still, there is an underlying suspicion of professional equipment for me. I don't think these shots could have mirrored real life and still have this quality...especially the HollywoodTV one. I have to ask again...who really owns things? Who is really producing/distributing things? HollywoodTV got this video from Ben? From someone else? Who? Were they actually there? Who is filming/photographing Ben? It's a scene we are seeing, not life....hard to distinguish when such emotions are raging inside. That's why people have believed he's dead. Once Michael got the world to believe he's dead...by making sure 2-3 videos of the ambulance were shown(part live action/part green/or a combination...) , it's off to the races with producing the rest...memorial, funeral, ForestLawn shots....part green screened, part not...is that really our job to uncover the exact how's? Unless we are all well trained technical people, I don't think we can totally prove all the how's. I think it's our job the disprove some theories and point out discrepancies. I think Michael must have left some things to pure illusion...otherwise, why bother. Green screen must have been used in part....not sure exactly, or how exactly, but I do believe it's done that way. Your video totally shows how Hollywood can manipulate a scene.....amazing. I thank you for posting it for sure!!!! <br /><br />Blessings Always
That could have 2 ambulances that day in the house:<br /><br />
ladymedic wrote:<br />In reference to the ambulance thing, I can clear some stuff up, as well.<br /><br />She is correct. We (ambulances) do not transport dead people. We DO transport working cardiac arrests (which is technically a dead person). So, if someone is past the point of attempting resuscitative efforts (significant rigor, lividity, injuries incompatible with life, etc.), we leave the patient on scene, do not transport, and call the coroner/ME. If we believe they are workable (not necessarily that they will survive), we transport.<br />Every system I've worked in, we try to call for another ambulance as well as the fire department. There's a lot that needs to happen when working a code, and the two people on the ambulance are not enough to take care of everything that goes on on their own. Another ambulance allows for more medics. A fire engine allows for more personnel. Each system is different, but it is rare that one single ambulance and no other apparatus goes to a working arrest.<br />The "not breathing at all" thing is an EMD code. It means literally that the person is not breathing at all. This is opposed to other EMD codes such as breathing uncertain, ineffective breathing, suffocation, obvious death, etc. Therefore, not breathing at all can certainly be a working arrest, and more than one ambulance is sent.
<br /><br /><br />If I'm reading this right, the ambulance left Carolwood at 1:07 and arrived at UCLA at 1:13pm.<br /><br />If that's not correct, someone please jump in.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br />
<br /><br />Yep...that's what the report says. Again...one of my favorite areas to look at..this report has SO much information on it.....or dis-information. It's filled out incorrectly, it gives the wrong birthday, mis-pelled name, invalid license # for Murray, the list is huge.......<br />thanks for posting it. It was filled out supposedly by the ambulance paramedic....I say no way. <br /><br />Blessings Always
<br /><br />Okay, video 3. I don't see what they mean with the first part (the PIP). It's two totally different angles and distances, and I see nothing strange, so if someone else does, please explain to me for i really can't.<br /><br />The security at the back being in the shadow in the video, and in the light on the still of the video showing the picture is the same as I explained earlier. The still from the picture is of low quality and very light. Besides that, it's a photo, which means that there is a huge chance that they lighted the picture up before they printed it, it could easily have been manipulated to make it sharper/lighter/etc.<br /><br />I had never seen any of these videos before, but all three of them are clearly not reliable at all.<br />
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br /><br />Oh souvenir, souvenir, I remember those videos and how confusing I found them. geek/ Concerning the video 3 that's what the person is trying to show us: "What we saw was the ambulance in the WolrdNewsDaily video driving off while at the same time the cameraman for the hollywoodtv video was still filming the right side of the ambulance as it had not yet moved forward!"<br /><br />I think it's all just due to angle, perspective and synchronicity of the videos compared. Especially since the HollywoodTv footage is filmed from very close to the ambulance and the other from afar and from an angle which view is at a certain point blocked. I just took 2 screenshots to give an idea:<br /><br /><br /><br />
<br />That could have 2 ambulances that day in the house:<br /><br />
ladymedic wrote:<br />In reference to the ambulance thing, I can clear some stuff up, as well.<br /><br />She is correct. We (ambulances) do not transport dead people. We DO transport working cardiac arrests (which is technically a dead person). So, if someone is past the point of attempting resuscitative efforts (significant rigor, lividity, injuries incompatible with life, etc.), we leave the patient on scene, do not transport, and call the coroner/ME. If we believe they are workable (not necessarily that they will survive), we transport.<br />Every system I've worked in, we try to call for another ambulance as well as the fire department. There's a lot that needs to happen when working a code, and the two people on the ambulance are not enough to take care of everything that goes on on their own. Another ambulance allows for more medics. A fire engine allows for more personnel. Each system is different, but it is rare that one single ambulance and no other apparatus goes to a working arrest.<br />The "not breathing at all" thing is an EMD code. It means literally that the person is not breathing at all. This is opposed to other EMD codes such as breathing uncertain, ineffective breathing, suffocation, obvious death, etc. Therefore, not breathing at all can certainly be a working arrest, and more than one ambulance is sent.
<br /><br />I think that following the timeline/testimonies of the main "actors" is the most important and for me the main "actors" here are the paramedics. If something doesn't follow their timeline it most probably is something that will raise suspicions. Like with these supposed 2/3 ambulances. It doesn't make any sense especially considering Senneff's testimony. It was always question of one ambulance with the necessary equipment and each paramedic having their tasks specified. So it makes more sense that this is the scenario that unfolded on June 25th, i.e. with one ambulance.
TS_comments:<br />Dear Applehead,<br /><br />First, you have given no explanation for WHY there would need to be more than one ambulance, nor WHY Michael would NEED to hire stalker fans to be in on the hoax. There are so many "Justice for MJ" fans, why would he need to hire a few extra??<br /><br />Just because someone is an actor, does not mean that they are in on the hoax--otherwise, almost all of Hollywood (plus all other actors around the world) are in on the hoax.<br /><br />Furthermore, even IF some stalker fans were in on the hoax (for some strange reason), yet you would also need MANY other people in on the hoax, in order for the multiple ambulance theory to work. And again, WHY??<br /><br />Finally, if it is "clear like daylight" that there were 2 ambulances (unless you mean the fire truck and ambulance), then could you please share that evidence with others here--and not keep it to yourself?<br /><br />Thanks. ::P
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Dear TS number 2 geek/ I will SPILL THE BEANS with one condition: IF after that, YOU will be kind enough to RESPOND me back at SOME QUESTIONs!!!!! Thank you very much!!![/size]
TS_comments:<br />Dear Applehead,<br /><br />First, you have given no explanation for WHY there would need to be more than one ambulance, nor WHY Michael would NEED to hire stalker fans to be in on the hoax. There are so many "Justice for MJ" fans, why would he need to hire a few extra??<br /><br />Just because someone is an actor, does not mean that they are in on the hoax--otherwise, almost all of Hollywood (plus all other actors around the world) are in on the hoax.<br /><br />Furthermore, even IF some stalker fans were in on the hoax (for some strange reason), yet you would also need MANY other people in on the hoax, in order for the multiple ambulance theory to work. And again, WHY??<br /><br />Finally, if it is "clear like daylight" that there were 2 ambulances (unless you mean the fire truck and ambulance), then could you please share that evidence with others here--and not keep it to yourself?<br /><br />Thanks. ::P
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Dear TS number 2 geek/ I will SPILL THE BEANS with one condition: IF after that, YOU will be kind enough to RESPOND me back at SOME QUESTIONs!!!!! Thank you very much!!![/size]<br />
<br /><br />"Dear TS, I will only share evidence on MY conditions. If you do not exactly as I say, I will NOT share it."<br /><br />I doubt TS is sensitive to that kind of blackmail. :roll:<br /><br />
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Applehead, do you think that there is an "I" in TEAM?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
@Applehead<;br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br />Please share the info you have...I'm definitely interested to hear it (even if TS doesn't reply to you).<br /><br />@WishingStar...I'm glad you liked the green-screen vid. Fascinating stuff huh? It makes me wonder just how much we've seen...not only in the hoax but other stuff that's been passed off as 'reality', like in the news, etc...when, in fact, it's an illusion. It makes sense that Mike would've incorporated it somehow, somewhere, sometime in the hoax...they already had the stuff rented for TII lol.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
@ BeTheChange, great Fav. qoute you have. <br /><br />@MsTrinity , great to see this vid you added,.. number 2 answered a question i had for a few weeks now. and i have searched for evidence but couldn't find it, after reading almost all the trial procedures and rules i could find. bangbang<br />I posted this ( i think its the previously threat), that there was someone called John( in the chatroom during the trial,.. who let us focus on the date changed by jury.... Here (the Netherlands) even criminals go free for so called mistakes in the past. But i couldn't find the answer ,...... if its same for the US.. Now i have the answer. Thank you. ::P<br /><br />Im sorry for being offtopic, /white flag/
<br /><br /><br />If I'm reading this right, the ambulance left Carolwood at 1:07 and arrived at UCLA at 1:13pm.<br /><br />If that's not correct, someone please jump in.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br />
<br /><br />@BeTheChange: thank you very much for this!<br /><br />Now....my second question would be: are there any reports that indicate a different time than 1:13 pm for the arrival at UCLA?<br />Are their any discrepancies that can be found?<br />Like Randy and Frank reported that the ambulance was going to UCLA between 10.30 and 11.00 am, then again other time stated by Ben, other time stated by the starline tours lady, other time in the "official" statements.
<br />Applehead, do you think that there is an "I" in TEAM?<br />
<br /><br />[size=10pt]LOL SOuza you put the wrong LETTER,lol lolol/ !!!<br />It's not I, it's A, so to speak A-TEAM :roll: !!!!!<br />[/size]<br /><br />
<br />Oh Applehead, you do like to play hard! lolol/ <br /><br />How many people do we know for sure that intimately know EXACTLY what went down on that day, besides TS? Would Ortega, Alverez, LaToya, Jermaine, Ben? Were all insiders totally briefed on all the synchronizing of details? Why of all those people on the tourbus, why none are taking videos or pics to post online? When you take a tour you make sure you have your camera, and all cameras/cell phones have video capability.<br /><br />Bec<br />
[size=9pt]Either way, the pickup truck DOES pass the bus at some point and in some facet, and it IS depicted in the wild running camera footage poised and ready to pass as soon as the ambulance (and the paps) get out of the street.[/size]
<br />[size=9pt]I agree, and when the ambulance backs up, the bus people worry the pap will be run over, there is plenty of room. Some lenses make objects appear closer than they are.[/size]<br /><br />[size=9pt]MsTrinity333[/size]<br />
[size=9pt]Forgive me guys...I'm behind so this may have been covered. But this van vid was made the same date as the second autopsy pic we all saw & Souza stretched with the upside down number looking like an 8. I stated back then it was a clue and no one responded... start at time sig. 4:01[/size]
<br />[size=9pt]I think that we'll have to wait for 7b, c to delve into all the ways MJ being totally out of the picture and on the getaway plane, affects everything. It appears we have been deliberately mislead to believe he was there on scene and involved but now... These were the things that initially got the hoax community in motion. But who knows if MJ boarded the plane, circled a few times and landed again/went somewhere for a day or two, and came back to sit back with the kids to watch the chaos (with popcorn).[/size]
TS_comments:<br />Dear Applehead,<br /><br />First, you have given no explanation for WHY there would need to be more than one ambulance, nor WHY Michael would NEED to hire stalker fans to be in on the hoax. There are so many "Justice for MJ" fans, why would he need to hire a few extra??<br /><br />Just because someone is an actor, does not mean that they are in on the hoax--otherwise, almost all of Hollywood (plus all other actors around the world) are in on the hoax.<br /><br />Furthermore, even IF some stalker fans were in on the hoax (for some strange reason), yet you would also need MANY other people in on the hoax, in order for the multiple ambulance theory to work. And again, WHY??<br /><br />Finally, if it is "clear like daylight" that there were 2 ambulances (unless you mean the fire truck and ambulance), then could you please share that evidence with others here--and not keep it to yourself?<br /><br />Thanks. ::P
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Dear TS number 2 geek/ I will SPILL THE BEANS with one condition: IF after that, YOU will be kind enough to RESPOND me back at SOME QUESTIONs!!!!! Thank you very much!!![/size]<br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Recruited or used?
<br /><br />I watched the first video a long time ago and couldn't find it again- so thank you TS for posting the link. I have always found that video very convincing. The person who is at the back window and then runs around the side of the ambulance past both Chris (as Chris turns to run left) and Ben, is not seen in that position on the other video. In the tour bus video Chris is still at the window as the ambulance turns to leave and the little guy in the black shirt who is the only other person who could have filmed at the side is nowhere in view. Seems a lot to happen in a short space of time.<br /><br />There is a moment in the tour bus video that exactly matches the published still photo - the one paula-c posted with the reflector circled. Does everyone agree that the smaller guy in the black shirt moves in the right way around the back of the van to be the same one filming the Hollywood.TV video? Watching it again - very carefully I think - has only confirmed what I believe so I am really interested to see TS debunk it. <br /><br />I'm glad that there are others in this thread whose eyes work like mine! Oh @applehead250609 thanks for posting that video!
Comments
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."