Timelines from many people don't tie up, not just Randy Phillips. Could be genuine forgetfulness, of script or real life action, or intentional to deliberately cause confusion, so the likes of us question things. I remember RP got out of it in court by admitting he could have been mistaken with his times.<br /><br />It would be interesting to write the events of 25th June, using everyone's testimony, just to show how full of (?intentional) discrepancies it is!<br /><br />It could start something like: MJ left Staples at 12.30am and also at 1.30am, after a brilliant rehearsal in which he was excited and happy, telling fans how worried he was and begging them to help get him out, while also being unable to speak to anyone because of increased tightness of security ........<br /><br />(I may continue but I'd need to put in names and links and I quite simply don't have enough spare hours/days/weeks right now to do the job properly!)<br /><br />EDIT: sorry that was off topic - TS, if you want our help with these levels, as you say, does that mean YOU really don't know what happened either. IOW, we're all groping around in the dark together! I was kind of hoping you, at least, knew what was what.
Point of interest.....It's possible that we could finish early.<br /><br />However, we will finish no later than November 29--even if I have to do 7b and 7c without any help (7a is nearly complete already). 11/29/2011 is the 333 day of the year. Interesting Take care, Love to All
I fell asleep early last night (a miracle in itself)...so I missed TS' long-awaited arrival lol. The first post I read this morning was Bec's about the green-screen and I was gonna reply to that with some 'points' that could possibly 'debunk' some of what she wrote (i.e. IF we are to believe anything from Ben, than according to him there were only TWO fans there that day...not sure whether or not they were 'stalker' fans). Having said that, though, everything Bec wrote does make sense when trying to figure out WHY they would've gone through the trouble of 'green-screening' everything that day.<br /><br />Anyhow, I then read TS' posts and I'm gonna trust that he is pointing us in the right direction (and not intentionally supporting 'false' theories lol)...so I'm not gonna persue the 'green-screen' theory and instead stick to my original 'gut' feeling that there was, in fact, an ambulance at Carolwood and UCLA on June 25th.<br /><br />The point TS raises about the shadows is beyond me...I'm not 'skilled' at making sense of shadows lol. If I recall correctly...WishingStar had mentioned that she had looked into the whole shadows issue long ago and posted about it on another thread. Perhaps she can jump in with what she found long ago.<br /><br />The issue of more than one ambulance on June 25th covers THREE of the four points TS has asked us to look into. I did a quick search on youtube for the vid he mentions in point #4 but haven't had any luck in finding it yet (I'll keep searching). It is clear that at least one person outside Carolwood said there 3 ambulances that showed up AND it's clear that Randy Phillips said there was an ambulance leaving Carolwood at around 10:30am, followed by 2 SUVs. The ONLY video we seem to have of any ambulance at Carolwood that day does show the ambulance leaving, followed by 2 SUVs...BUT we are led to believe that THAT occured sometime around 1pm.<br /><br />Things that don't make 'sense' with the 'more than one ambulance' theory:<br />1) Along with Ben's video of the ambulance, there is also at least one other 'fan' vid of the exact same event/timing. IF there was more than one ambulance on June 25th...and the Starline buses are constantly up and down Carolwood...why is there NO other vids (from 'fans' or tour bus people) supporting this claim? Chances are the people on those buses have cameras with them---they are on a tour afterall---so NONE of them thought to record an ambulance leaving MJ's house prior to the one that left around 1pm? I guess it's possible, but it doesn't really make much 'sense'.<br /><br />2) If Randy Phillips is correct with his timeline (i.e. an ambu left Carolwood at around 10:30am) and he followed it (one would suppose to UCLA)...then the 'illusion' would've begun much sooner than the 'official' timeline of events. 'News' of MJ being rushed to the hospital would've begun circulating MUCH sooner than it actually did. In order to believe RP's recollection of events, we would have to also believe that the 'media' was kept in the dark about the whole thing until much later in the day. Again, it could be possible...but it, too, doesn't make much 'sense'.<br /><br />3) Further to ^^^, RP's timeline completely contradicts Ben's timeline of events. Not only that but IF an ambulance was there at 10:30am or any other time than the 'official' timeline...how is it that the 'wolves' didn't descend until almost 3 hours (or more) later (i.e. 'media' arrived at Carolwood sometime AFTER 1pm....but probably closer to 1:30pm)? This is Hollywood we're talking about AND Michael Jackson. ANY ambulance arriving at Carolwood would cause commotion and chances are VERY high that the 'media' would get wind of it pretty soon. There is evidence of this based on the 'official' timeline....the 'news' about MJ being rushed to UCLA spread quickly and like wildfire when it WAS happening (as per the 'official' timeline). Again, it could be possible that no 'media' (including Ben) was alerted for 2+ hours or so after an ambulance left Carolwood at 10:30am...but considering WHO we're talking about, that seems pretty unlikely.<br /><br />I'll keep searching for the vid TS mentions in point #4. If anyone happens to come across it, please post it.<br /><br />It's really GREAT to know that no matter what, this level will be finished no later than Nov 29 ::P!<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
This is my attempt at debunking #2: <br /><br />I don't think its ever been proven that Randy Phillips is NOT in on the hoax so he could have been told to say the ambulance left much earlier than we were told to cause confusion. It's also possible that he really could have mixed up the times and unfortunately Frank is no longer with us to confirm this unless there are some videos of him confirming the time in an interview. <br /><br />Randy said that there were 2 SUVs following the ambulance which we also see in the video. Unless there were 4 or more dark colored SUVs at Carolwood then the 2 that left at 10:30 would have to return to Carolwood to follow the ambulance a second time. <br /><br />I believe TS asked us to prove once and for all if there was only one ambulance at Carolwood on 6/25/09 and if it went to UCLA. I don't recall him asking us to prove what time the ambulance arrived and left. At the end of the tourist's ambulance video we see Linda from star maps crying on the phone right after the ambulance leaves. If Linda said that the ambulance left at 11:45 (can anyone provide documentation of her statement?) then the tourist's video would have to have been filmed at that time too. If this is true then the hollywood tv video would have to have been filmed at 11:45 as well since the videos match up.<br /><br />Now if Frank claimed the ambulance left Carolwood around 11:15 as per MJonmind's post (http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21319.msg373316#msg373316) then that gives us a 30 min window of time between 11:15 and 11:45 where one ambulance left Carolwood and went to UCLA. This time discrepancy of 30 mins could be attributed to both Frank and Linda estimating the time the ambulance left. I hope I make sense with what I am trying to say.
TS And BeTheChange.......<br />Shadows...one of my favorites subjects! Yes, I looked into them a very long time ago. It's a point I made in some of my very first posts.....that something seemed off about the shadows, but I didn't know what. SInce then I have researched times of year shadows are shortest/longest, when they appear strongest/lightest etc. In 2009, the summer solstice took place on June 21 (777, coincidently).....here is a link to read about that:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice<br /><br />I have asked for help on more than one occasion in understanding all this....to no avail. Shadows are easy to understand, yet difficult to explain for me. Think of the sun in the sky. When it's noon, or close to noon, shadows are smallest because the sun is more or less overhead. A simple flashlight and a water bottle can show this. Hold the flashlight above the bottle....move it slowly down/around...you will see the shadow cast change size...it gets longer the more light "sets". When the sun starts setting, shadows are longer. But, they stay constant....they will not switch/change direction. I have recently re-watched the video of the transport to the coroner van. The shadows are huge......look here, and watch the shadows from the people on the ground:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=KXklDCYVveQ<br /><br />They seem un-naturally lit, rather than naturally shadowed by the sun. This time of day (wasn't it somewhere around late afternoon?), this time of year...I have to question such large shadows being produced in this video.<br /><br />The video with Ben, the firetruck, the fans, the tour bus......all the shadows play a role. I felt it the moment I saw it. I will find my original posts about it....it was such a long time ago. However, I know shadows must play a role in telling the true time, whether it's green-screened, or time of year......I just know it. "Only the Shadow Knows" keeps playing in my mine, lol! <br /><br />TS.......thank you for mentioning shadows, perhaps I am not crazy after all. I began a post last night where I basically said human emotions can take control of common sense. We don't see the facts, only the emotions. I believe to become truly knowledgeable, you have to know balance. Lead with your heart, but follow it with common sense and thoughtful decisions/conclusions. Most people take for granted what they see, is what they get. In this case, it's a dead Michael Jackson. If they really, truly looked with their mind's eye..they could see things do not add up. For whatever reasons, we are here doing this, with you, TS, with Front, with Back.....and whoever else might be in the shadows here. <br />BeTheChange....thank you so much for mentioning my love of shadows in all this....I will be looking back through things to find the information and post it again......you're awesome! <br /><br />Darn life is calling at the moment, lol.....drat. Oh well....it's been a great morning : ) <br />Blessings to each of you today!<br /><br />*Kings to you Michael*
<br />Timelines from many people don't tie up, not just Randy Phillips. Could be genuine forgetfulness, of script or real life action, or intentional to deliberately cause confusion, so the likes of us question things. I remember RP got out of it in court by admitting he could have been mistaken with his times.<br /><br />It would be interesting to write the events of 25th June, using everyone's testimony, just to show how full of (?intentional) discrepancies it is!<br /><br />It could start something like: MJ left Staples at 12.30am and also at 1.30am, after a brilliant rehearsal in which he was excited and happy, telling fans how worried he was and begging them to help get him out, while also being unable to speak to anyone because of increased tightness of security ........<br />
<br /><br />Yes, genuine forgetfulness is quite likely--both with Randy, and with Linda (maps lady). Randy even said in court: "if my memory serves me correctly" (maybe not exact quote). If Randy remembered right, then the ambulance was LEAVING around 10:45 to 11:15 (time Randy said he was notified, plus about 15 minutes for him to arrive). If Linda remembered right, then the ambulance was ARRIVING around 11:45. If they both remembered right, then we have either two different ambulances, or one ambulance coming and going--which has not been supported by any photographic evidence, or any testimony of anyone whatsoever!<br /><br />Even the witness who remembered ABOUT ("like") three ambulances, indicated that the three were all there AT THE SAME TIME. But Randy and Linda only remember ONE ambulance coming and going (plus the fire truck, which probably was one of the ABOUT/"like" two or "three" ambulances); so if all remember accurately, then we have FIVE ambulances coming and going at different times!!!!! Please someone with a very vivid imagination, please explain to me WHY--WHY, OH WHY ON EARTH would there be FIVE ambulances at Carolwood on June 25, 2009????? And to top this off, the green screen theory (and similar theories) support the idea of ZERO ambulances at Carolwood in 6-25-09!<br /><br />Yet another serious problem, is that Randy tesified of following the ambulance to UCLA--and then STAYING THERE THE REST OF THE DAY! All of the events he describe match perfectly with the photos and other evidences, EXCEPT the timing--that is the only difference in his story. If he was right about the timing, then all the events of people arriving at the hospital happened twice (at least, maybe three if we go with the five ambulance theory)--yet somehow Randy did not notice the rewind and replay of everything!<br /><br />Or perhaps Randy is "in on it", and that solves everything. I guess we would also have Linda in on it too, and the three ambulance witness is in on it, along with the entire population of China, and 75% of the rest of the world. bounce/ crash/ :? bangbang<br /><br />I think it is MUCH easier (and more sane) to realize that people FREQUENTLY forget some things--ESPECIALLY times! When an emergency happens: do you FIRST decide to check the time and write it down, or take very careful mental note of it so that you won't forget? If so, why? Because you are expecting to end up in court, and testify of the times? For most people, no. For professionals, probably (paramedics, police, etc).<br /><br />In fact, anyone who has much experience in court cases knows that discrepencies in witness testimonies is NORMAL. In fact, a lack of discrepency and perfect harmony is one of the strongest evidences of conspiracy--everyone planned their testimonies so carefully, so that everything would sound real. Take a car accident for example: ten witnesses will usually give somewhere between five and ten different accounts. Some of the details will be the same from everyone (and these details are probably correct); other details will vary. Car had it's blinker on, car did not have the blinker on. Light was red, light was green, etc.<br /><br />It is for this reason, that I have NEVER used witness discrepencies as any major evidence of the hoax--it is just plain normal. I did show descrepencies in the 911 call timing from BHPD and LAFD; but those were not mere human memories, they were (supposedly) accurate computer-generated and recorded time records, which (if not fabricated) should harmonize within a few seconds at most.<br /><br />EDIT: This is also why I said, a long time ago, that we should always have AT LEAST TWO OR THREE strong points to support any conclusion--because only one witness is not very reliable. We do not have two or three witnesses stating that the ambulance left around 11:00, we have only Randy. We do not have two or three witnesses stating that the ambulance arrived around 11:45, we have only Linda. We do not have two or three witnesses stating that they saw three ambulances at the same time, etc.
<br />EDIT: sorry that was off topic - TS, if you want our help with these levels, as you say, does that mean YOU really don't know what happened either. IOW, we're all groping around in the dark together! I was kind of hoping you, at least, knew what was what.<br />
<br /><br />I already said that I would finish this level single-handedly, if I have to.<br /><br />But it is much better if others help; then I do not get accused (as much) of brain washing everyone, and this whole forum is just a bunch of people who can't think for themselves, and blindly follow TS.<br /><br />Also, it takes a LOT of time to debunk everything; just that last post I made took me about an hour (and I didn't even link to any documentation, to save time). You may think that I have all the time in the world, being in jail. LOL. But maybe the Con man is not in jail (and maybe I am not Mr. Murder anyway--cause the context of my statement was pretty obviously not serious).<br /><br /><br />
<br />Paparazzo and Dr. Drew: Unique insight into Michael Jackson's life<br /><br />On Tuesday night, Dr. Drew spoke to the photographer who snapped the last picture of Michael Jackson inside the ambulance the day the pop star died.<br /><br />While they walked outside Jackson’s former rented Holmby Hills mansion, Dr. Drew began the conversation by asking Ben Evenstad what sort of things he would look for before that tragic day.<br /><br />“We were either looking for a doctor's visit because we could always get pictures there, or a shopping trip,” he said.<br /><br />Evenstad also noticed that Jackson was rehearsing months before his death.<br /><br />“That started about five to six months [prior],” he said.<br /><br />Dr. Drew commented on how so much had been made of the few days before Jackson passed away – the notion that he had been in such good shape. “[So] he had been rehearsing for quite some time,” Drew said.<br /><br />Drew also mentioned how Jackson could sometimes be heard rehearsing in the mansion at night. He was reportedly known for being a night owl.<br /><br />[size=14pt]“He would stay up late,” Evenstad said. “I had a conversation with one of the members of the security staff that indicated there were many times where they took him out where nobody was here, meaning very, very late at night – three in the morning.“<br />[/size]<br />Did this mean that Jackson's sleep problem was already well established?<br /><br />Dr. Drew asked Evenstad if he had seen anyone making trips pharmacies.<br /><br />“We would follow security staff,” Evenstad said. “A lot of times they would do advance work – go to a store [or] movie theater. We wanted an idea of what Michael would do later. Often times they would go to pharmacies [and] pick up various things.”<br /><br />Evenstad said he could never see what was picked up because “they were smart enough to not let that picture out.”<br /><br />Later, the two began speaking about the day Jackson died.<br /><br />“One of my photographers was here posted early in the morning,” Evenstad explained. “Shortly after noon, he saw the ambulance arrive [and a] fire truck parked outside ... He alerted me [that there was] an ambulance at the house. At that time we had no idea ... it could be anything ... I got here in like 10 minutes.”<br /><br />Drew asked if Evenstad was aware that something was seriously wrong.<br /><br />“At first, we thought maybe one of the kids is sick – maybe one of the staff is sick,” he recalled. “Through the fire truck outside, we could see the computer monitor and it said ‘50-year-old male not breathing’, – knowing Michael was 50 years old, we thought, ‘OK, this is probably Michael.'”<br /><br />Evenstad went on to say that he noticed Dr. Conrad Murray coming to the residence for a couple of months and that Murray was with Michael Jackson in the house for a long time.<br /><br />“I heard some of the fans say they would see Michael Jackson leave five or six times a day ... go to the dermatologist's office,” Dr. Drew said.<br /><br />Evenstad said Jackson would “be in the building where Dr. Arnold Klein is” ... almost once a day for up to three hours.<br /><br />“I am a physician,” Dr. Drew said. “I don’t know of any condition that requires a daily dermatology visit over long periods of time.”<br /><br />At the end of the interview, Evenstad, a man who observed how the place operated, was asked if he had insights as to how Conrad Murray and Michael ran their day.<br /><br />“All the days were pretty similar,” Evenstad said. "The guards came and went at the same time. Murray came and went at the same time. Michael, when he was going to rehearsal, would be on a fairly consistent schedule. So my guess is, from an outsider's perspective, whatever was going on in there, was something that happened every day or every night and this one time it went bad and they weren’t prepared for it.”<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />http://drdrew.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/02/paparazzo-and-dr-drew-unique-insight-into-michael-jacksons-life/<br /><br />Credits 2good2btrue<br /><br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21454.msg373351;topicseen#lastPost
<br /><br />But it is much better if others help; then I do not get accused (as much) of brain washing everyone, and this whole forum is just a bunch of people who can't think for themselves, and blindly follow TS.<br /><br />
TS...you seem very ruffled or annoyed. I could just be imagining it......hopefully so. We are been through the ringer more than once and have learned much. We have thought for ourselves, fought for our beliefs and stayed by each other's side throughout this ordeal. If things are not painfully clear at times, it's not for lack of trying on anyone's part. Things are still clear as mud in many areas. I wrote about the green screen aspects back on the 16th...I said "major aspects" could have been green screened. Things like a fire truck being there could have happened for realism. Indeed, remembering things is easier if they really did happen a certain way. It's all in the details.....that's where we have come in to account. No other group of people I know of, has put more sweat, more hours, more thought into debunking this entire experience. Michael said he wanted to shock the world....he did that. It's my belief, he's about to top himself. Things are no longer simmering are they TS....I mean absolutely no disrespect, my posts show I am not about that at all. I am clearly about the truth....of everything. I worry sometimes that you have bitten off too much to chew.....that you stress over us not seeing things clearly enough, or understanding enough. We are smart, no doubt.....but Michael is probably smarter, probably. Sooner or later the lights will go in, and the truth of June 25th will be revealed. The question I have for people: will we be ready for the truth? I am. Love to you TS......don't worry, be happy. <br /><br />Blessings Always
<br /><br />I think it is MUCH easier (and more sane) to realize that people FREQUENTLY forget some things--ESPECIALLY times! When an emergency happens: do you FIRST decide to check the time and write it down, or take very careful mental note of it so that you won't forget? If so, why? Because you are expecting to end up in court, and testify of the times? For most people, no. For professionals, probably (paramedics, police, etc).<br /><br />In fact, anyone who has much experience in court cases knows that discrepencies in witness testimonies is NORMAL. In fact, a lack of discrepency and perfect harmony is one of the strongest evidences of conspiracy--everyone planned their testimonies so carefully, so that everything would sound real. Take a car accident for example: ten witnesses will usually give somewhere between five and ten different accounts. Some of the details will be the same from everyone (and these details are probably correct); other details will vary. Car had it's blinker on, car did not have the blinker on. Light was red, light was green, etc.<br /><br />It is for this reason, that I have NEVER used witness discrepencies as any major evidence of the hoax--it is just plain normal. I did show descrepencies in the 911 call timing from BHPD and LAFD; but those were not mere human memories, they were (supposedly) accurate computer-generated and recorded time records, which (if not fabricated) should harmonize within a few seconds at most.<br /><br />EDIT: This is also why I said, a long time ago, that we should always have AT LEAST TWO OR THREE strong points to support any conclusion--because only one witness is not very reliable. We do not have two or three witnesses stating that the ambulance left around 11:00, we have only Randy. We do not have two or three witnesses stating that the ambulance arrived around 11:45, we have only Linda. We do not have two or three witnesses stating that they saw three ambulances at the same time, etc.<br />
<br /><br />I found this very interesting - we've been saying all along that all the discrepancies, and no two stories seeming to match, were 'odd', and an indication of the hoax. From what you're saying here TS, it's the opposite - they're perfectly normal, although I have to say, why someone wouldn't remember EXACTLY what happened the day MJ 'died' is beyond me! Ah, but he didn't die did he so that explains that!<br /><br />Should we therefore be looking for the things that match, rather than the things that don't, as more of an indication of the truth? Makes perfect sense really, and I guess that's what you mean by finding two or three things to support an idea. I'm sorry - I may have been somewhat slow in catching the importance of this!
Just to play 'devil's advocate' for a sec....didn't Randy say that he had a meeting scheduled with Mike that morning? IF that is true, then it would make 'sense' that he would 'note' the time of seeing an ambulance or at least be in the right 'ballpark' time of seeing it. NOT because he would have to 'recall it later in court' but because he had a mental 'timeframe' according to his scheduled meeting with Mike.<br /><br />Of course, this in itself contradicts Murray's whole timeline and MJ wanting/desperate to get some sleep even at 10:30am. IF he knew he had a meeting scheduled with Randy, none of this makes any sense. According to Murray, Mike talked about having to cancel rehearsals but said nothing about having to cancel any meeting scheduled with Randy.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
<br />EDIT: sorry that was off topic - TS, if you want our help with these levels, as you say, does that mean YOU really don't know what happened either. IOW, we're all groping around in the dark together! I was kind of hoping you, at least, knew what was what.<br />
<br /><br />I already said that I would finish this level single-handedly, if I have to.<br /><br />But it is much better if others help; then I do not get accused (as much) of brain washing everyone, and this whole forum is just a bunch of people who can't think for themselves, and blindly follow TS.<br /><br />Also, it takes a LOT of time to debunk everything; just that last post I made took me about an hour (and I didn't even link to any documentation, to save time). You may think that I have all the time in the world, being in jail. LOL. But maybe the Con man is not in jail (and maybe I am not Mr. Murder anyway--cause the context of my statement was pretty obviously not serious).<br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Dear TS I am sorry we can not do more. I know I didn't try everything to sort things out. I know I didn't organize the information the way it was needed to get some answers. There were too many variables in this equation and in a way I am sorry I didn't take much time to place them in order. Even if I would have done this, I am not sure I could have helped any better.<br /><br />Anyway, I feel like we could have done more and we didn't. But you do realize the amount of work and documentation needed for this and we all have jobs and other obligations in our lives and not enough time. <br /><br />I hope whatever answers you will be able to get - you'll be sharing with us.<br /> bearhug
wow....... um yeah... wow.... my child was sick with fever. took one day break from forum... i really missed out on some major posts!<br /><br />damn it, 7 a not over!! we need to work more at it. <br /><br />i know that i struggle to uncover 'breakthroughs' and mostly 'agree' with 'ground breaking' posts rather than initiate them... but i would like to add one short comment about TS question about the shadows in pictures. I apologise if it has already been mentioned.<br /><br />inconsistent shadows could indicate one of two things, perhaps even both. a) artificial and multiple sources of light, ie: such as equipment used on a movie set whether that be indoor or outdoors. the multiple sources of light create opposing shadows inconsistant with natural lighting / one light source. could indiate the photo was staged 'studio' or 'outdoor set' style, which would also allow privacy. and b) different parts of the photo were taken on various days and created numbeous shadows pointing in different directions. these photos may have then be superimposed on top of each other to create the photo released to the media.<br /><br /><br />in addition THANK YOU TS for returning with even more cans of worms for us! some here appear frustrated that there is yet 'more work' involved to work things out abt 7a... but, just as one member said, (sorry can't remember who) maybe we are missing something and looking at the differences, not similarities, in terms of the witness statements, timelines, etc.... you can be assured that although we appear frustrated, we will all continue working and our many eyes will look at everything again and agian until we get it.<br /><br />LOVE to all.<br /> bearhug
<br />EDIT: sorry that was off topic - TS, if you want our help with these levels, as you say, does that mean YOU really don't know what happened either. IOW, we're all groping around in the dark together! I was kind of hoping you, at least, knew what was what.<br />
<br /><br />I already said that I would finish this level single-handedly, if I have to.<br /><br />But it is much better if others help; then I do not get accused (as much) of brain washing everyone, and this whole forum is just a bunch of people who can't think for themselves, and blindly follow TS.<br /><br />Also, it takes a LOT of time to debunk everything; just that last post I made took me about an hour (and I didn't even link to any documentation, to save time). You may think that I have all the time in the world, being in jail. LOL. But maybe the Con man is not in jail (and maybe I am not Mr. Murder anyway--cause the context of my statement was pretty obviously not serious).<br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Dear TS I am sorry we can not do more. I know I didn't try everything to sort things out. I know I didn't organize the information the way it was needed to get some answers. There were too many variables in this equation and in a way I am sorry I didn't take much time to place them in order. Even if I would have done this, I am not sure I could have helped any better.<br /><br />Anyway, I feel like we could have done more and we didn't. But you do realize the amount of work and documentation needed for this and we all have jobs and other obligations in our lives and not enough time. <br /><br />I hope whatever answers you will be able to get - you'll be sharing with us.<br /> bearhug<br />
<br /><br />Gina, the participation in this forum, as I see it, is a TEAM WORK It does not matter if some of our posts are not very dedicated, detailed or brillant (being brillant it´s also very subjective). <br />Every post is valuable, every one. From simple silly questions a lot of light comes through solving them to certain extent, from a mere opinion more questions come up and the people skilled to find answers in another way put their effort in it and presents a theory...a theory that without "the silly question or opinion may have ever been completed <br /><br />I am not happy seeing people undervaluated or thinking they don´t do good because of expectations from others.<br /><br />My humble advice is to contribute in the way one can, enjoy and share...like chatting with pals about this subject. That´s the advice i gave to myself and it works 110% :P
Well, all this time talking made me remember about "Remember The Time", the song that has been tuning lately.<br /><br />The only written time that we got it´s the one in the screen. From that point may be we could set a time line again with the versions of each witness and puzzle them together.<br />Time it´s important to determinate at what time Michael got the reaction, help was called and at what time the call to 911 was made and how long took for the 911 call to be received and transfered. <br /><br />If many calls were done, it makes sense having more than one ambulance. If only one call was done, having 2-3 ambulances sounds non logic.<br /><br />IDK if this have been debunked or discussed already, in case it has, the time line is appreciated.
<br /><br />However, there are still a few points which should be made clearer, and then we can go to 7b.<br /><br />#1. Nobody responded to this: "I do not know if this had been published before perhaps yes, but anyway, Witness said that there were three ambulances at home that day." {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21319.msg372716;topicseen#msg372716}.<br /><br />
<br /><br />ok, i'll address this one beacause i think i may have an explaination for it.<br />I think caught up in the drama of it all, the words this girl chose, those words being... 'there were 3 ambulances' are a misrepresentation of what she actually saw. What i think she saw was 3 emergency services vehicles. 1, the red and white car with the lights on roof, that from photos/videos seems to be parked on the corner at the nose end of the fire truck. (sorry i dont know what this car is as i'm not from U.S)<br />2, the fire truck. And 3, the ambulance. That's the best sense i can make of what that witness said.
<br />EDIT: sorry that was off topic - TS, if you want our help with these levels, as you say, does that mean YOU really don't know what happened either. IOW, we're all groping around in the dark together! I was kind of hoping you, at least, knew what was what.<br />
<br /><br />I already said that I would finish this level single-handedly, if I have to.<br /><br />But it is much better if others help; then I do not get accused (as much) of brain washing everyone, and this whole forum is just a bunch of people who can't think for themselves, and blindly follow TS.<br /><br />Also, it takes a LOT of time to debunk everything; just that last post I made took me about an hour (and I didn't even link to any documentation, to save time). You may think that I have all the time in the world, being in jail. LOL. But maybe the Con man is not in jail (and maybe I am not Mr. Murder anyway--cause the context of my statement was pretty obviously not serious).<br />
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