looks more and more like it was a dummy but in this case Senneff is such a liar <br />from ADI<br />
The house staff being told to leave before the ambulance makes me think there was something they weren’t meant to see on that stretcher. They needed the least amount of people in the house before the stretcher left the house.
<br /><br /><br />makes sense.<br /><br />Hey, maybe that's why they waited for so long - 40 minutes - before the ambulance left Carlwood - because they waited all the staff to leave :shock: :shock:
Think about it please..<br />What if Mj was really dead on june 25 th 2009 BUT hoax also exists . What if MJ wasn't only human but he really was ARCHANGEL MICHAEL. Think about it cause you have to think outside the box and expose AL theories . Is it a coincidence that MJ and Jesus Christ were both born of a father named JOSEPH and katherine equal " pure " in hebrew. Is it a coincidence that MJ is the 7th child ? is it a coincidence that he is the only one gifted of several talents ALL are PERFECTION Dance, sing, even he can draw... is it a coincidence that his name is MICHAEL JACKSON ( oth 7 letters) traducted as Who is like god the son of Jacob? is it a coincidencee that he's the only one who has VITILIGO. remember, Vitiligo touch only 2% of the whole world!! <br />Maybe michael kne when he was going to die, for a very long time before. because MJ is connected with god and higher source so it could be a theorie. then, maybe he decided to create a fake hoax ( a hoax within a hoax) in order to find some believers on june 25 th , and also denounce all injustice ( bad justice, bad government etc..) So, what if he really died on june 25th the same as jesus did too ? On the same day, family and knowers created the hoax at the same time , this could explain why there was 2 ambulances for exemple. i'm sorry for my bad english . They showed us the fake pictures and video on TV and HID all real proof that mj was really dead BUT if he really is the Archangel Michael, family KNOWS that he will resurrect very soon. this could explain " we are going to see the king". or when latoya wrote on the funeral book that she is impatient to see his brother on this earth AGAIN. <br />watch this please<br /> . You can CLEARLY see how paris cried!<br /><br />I saw, blanket, paris, prince, katherine, jermaine, and others CRY during the memoria. pictures don't lie. these are not FAKE tears. MJ is really dead at the moment BUT will resurect. and finallly this theorie can explain " the man you've never seen before" . And Although, When JC resurected, he had a new body, he came with an other form, an younger and beautiful body. the spiritual body .<br />What if mj will resurrect the same as jesus did? with a YOUNGER nody, with his spiritual body !! <br />this could explain WHY all movies , books , cds came out since 2011 show us ONLY mj pictures of thriller era why not after? will he come back with this apparence?<br />I just think it's an embedeed structure. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br />A corpse that was dead on the 25th would be useful if the paramedics were not in on the hoax. And if we're trying to keep as few people as we can in on the hoax, then we can skip the paramedics. They could be deceived by a corpse. I don't know about the doctors tho if they could be deceived or not but the DA has to be in on it. A corpse would explain why the room was heated in the middle of summer and why the paramedics told that they couldn't recognize MJ and told that the man was an old, fragile, Asian man. Probably the paramedics were told about the hoax later and that is the reason why they changed their statements at the trial about recognizing MJ. This is one of the corpse theories.<br /><br />The second theory of mine about the corpse is; a corpse was used not because the paramedics didn't know about the hoax or the doctors but a corpse was used for them to tell what they really did with the corpse instead of pretending and saying things. Talking about the actual motions is easier to create things in your mind and pretend what you did with the body. [/b]<br />
<br /><br />And for remembering real events, a dummy would do. Using a real corpse just for that reason, seems useless, it's still a dead human being you're dealing with. <br />
<br /><br />Well you can not apply all the procedures on a dummy. And I do believe that a real body would be more useful for the paramedics and the doctors to apply all the procedures on it and tell about what they did instead of pretending doing all the stuff. To me this is a plausible necessarity of using a corpse.<br />
<br /><br />Oh? Do you think it's easy to intubate a long dead corpse? You can do many things with a dummy. You can intubate it, perform CPR on it, give it mouth-to-mouth etc. They even have dummies these days that can give birth to a baby dummy. Handeling a dummy is much easier than using a corpse. Plus you will damage the body: break ribs, damage tissue etc. So as long as there is no valid reason to use it, it's useless.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
MJ is really dead at the moment BUT will resurect.
<br /><br />...and people say believers are delusional :roll: :roll: :roll:...<br /><br />good night bearhug<br />
<br /><br />i know but i think it's a theorie maybe crazy of course! OMG i just really think that MJ IS Archangel Michael if you just explore this theorie and make your own opinion WITHOUT using Bible and religions! you could probably be driven to the same idea .
<br />A corpse that was dead on the 25th would be useful if the paramedics were not in on the hoax. And if we're trying to keep as few people as we can in on the hoax, then we can skip the paramedics. They could be deceived by a corpse. I don't know about the doctors tho if they could be deceived or not but the DA has to be in on it. A corpse would explain why the room was heated in the middle of summer and why the paramedics told that they couldn't recognize MJ and told that the man was an old, fragile, Asian man. Probably the paramedics were told about the hoax later and that is the reason why they changed their statements at the trial about recognizing MJ. This is one of the corpse theories.<br /><br />The second theory of mine about the corpse is; a corpse was used not because the paramedics didn't know about the hoax or the doctors but a corpse was used for them to tell what they really did with the corpse instead of pretending and saying things. Talking about the actual motions is easier to create things in your mind and pretend what you did with the body. [/b]<br />
<br /><br />And for remembering real events, a dummy would do. Using a real corpse just for that reason, seems useless, it's still a dead human being you're dealing with. <br />
<br /><br />Well you can not apply all the procedures on a dummy. And I do believe that a real body would be more useful for the paramedics and the doctors to apply all the procedures on it and tell about what they did instead of pretending doing all the stuff. To me this is a plausible necessarity of using a corpse.<br />
<br /><br />Oh? Do you think it's easy to intubate a long dead corpse? You can do many things with a dummy. You can intubate it, perform CPR on it, give it mouth-to-mouth etc. They even have dummies these days that can give birth to a baby dummy. Handeling a dummy is much easier than using a corpse. Plus you will damage the body: break ribs, damage tissue etc. So as long as there is no valid reason to use it, it's useless. <br />
<br /><br />WOW Souza girl, that's about what I'm saying in my last post, except, that why use it at all??? Who'd it be fooling?? Anyone who'd be working on it would know it wasn't real...so..I'm thinking nothing there at all. Is that what you were meaning by no valid reason to use it, it's useless? Because that is my point earlier too <br /><br />Also, about what you wrote ADI, I see NO reason that all you were referring to couldn't have been controlled. Who's really to say that, if it is a sting, or movie, the entire area was "settted" only those in that were pertaining to the actions necessary? Just saying, if all this leading up to the planning of and initiating of and carrying out of the hoax for all these years could happen, then just a couple of hours sure could've been. <br />After all, it is ONLY AN ILLUSION! It could ALL NOT BE REAL AT ALL actually.....
I don't ever recall the timings of when the ambulance left Carolwood and arriving at the hospital as being significant to the hoax numerology-wise (unless I'm having a brainfart right now). So perhaps getting to the hospital could've varied, time-wise, since one cannot control who or what will be on the roads (unless, for example, the roads have been closed off temporarily for a movie shoot). <br /><br />I agree Adi that something could've happened to the ambulance en route but the chances are so slim. And people tend to be extra cautious when they see emergency vehicles nearby and will get out of the way at the sight/sound of an ambulance. Plus, traffic was light at that time of the day and the weather was ideal. The people who would receive the ambulance were expecting it so that small part of UCLA can be easily controlled, especially if a 'VIP' person was coming - access would be immediately restricted to that area.<br /><br />The best way, in my eyes, for Michael to be in total control of his hoax is for him to be there. I don't believe there was nothing in the ambulance, that would seem the riskiest of all if anyone happened to see something they shouldn't have. If Michael WASN'T there, then the other possibility in my opinion would be a MJ looking-dummy simply for the shape of a body and any quick glimpses from 'outsiders'. But since it has not been proven that Michael WASN'T there, the MJ alive scenario makes the most sense to me.<br /><br /><br /><br />
<br />A corpse that was dead on the 25th would be useful if the paramedics were not in on the hoax. And if we're trying to keep as few people as we can in on the hoax, then we can skip the paramedics. They could be deceived by a corpse. I don't know about the doctors tho if they could be deceived or not but the DA has to be in on it. A corpse would explain why the room was heated in the middle of summer and why the paramedics told that they couldn't recognize MJ and told that the man was an old, fragile, Asian man. Probably the paramedics were told about the hoax later and that is the reason why they changed their statements at the trial about recognizing MJ. This is one of the corpse theories.<br /><br />The second theory of mine about the corpse is; a corpse was used not because the paramedics didn't know about the hoax or the doctors but a corpse was used for them to tell what they really did with the corpse instead of pretending and saying things. Talking about the actual motions is easier to create things in your mind and pretend what you did with the body. [/b]<br />
<br /><br />And for remembering real events, a dummy would do. Using a real corpse just for that reason, seems useless, it's still a dead human being you're dealing with. <br />
<br /><br />Well you can not apply all the procedures on a dummy. And I do believe that a real body would be more useful for the paramedics and the doctors to apply all the procedures on it and tell about what they did instead of pretending doing all the stuff. To me this is a plausible necessarity of using a corpse.<br />
<br /><br />Oh? Do you think it's easy to intubate a long dead corpse? You can do many things with a dummy. You can intubate it, perform CPR on it, give it mouth-to-mouth etc. They even have dummies these days that can give birth to a baby dummy. Handeling a dummy is much easier than using a corpse. Plus you will damage the body: break ribs, damage tissue etc. So as long as there is no valid reason to use it, it's useless. <br />
<br /><br />WOW Souza girl, from my last post, you can see, you and I are on total agreement on this one!!! <br /><br />Also, about what you wrote ADI, I see NO reason that all you were referring to couldn't have been controlled. Who's really to say that, if it is a sting, or movie, the entire area was "settted" only those in that were pertaining to the actions necessary? Just saying, if all this leading up to the planning of and initiating of and carrying out of the hoax for all these years could happen, then just a couple of hours sure could've been. <br />After all, it is ONLY AN ILLUSION! It could ALL NOT BE REAL AT ALL actually.....<br />
<br /><br />From TS earlier in this thread:<br /><br />
It is important that we understand 7a correctly, because it’s a solid foundation upon which we can build to find the answer for the main question in 7b (what went to the hospital in the ambulance?). For example, since the video events really happened on 6-25-09, we need to start thinking about all the people who were already at the residence (before any LAFD arrived)—were they ALL in on it? If so, why? And if not, what would keep them from finding out (and spilling the beans)?
<br /><br />The conclusion of 7a was that events actually did happen and that it was filmed on that day - so it wasn't an illusion and/or not real. Therefore as I said in my post if it was filmed in real time on that day then anyone could have been outside Carolwood and they couldn't have controlled it. The tour bus drove by...was that controlled? any other number of fans or paparazzi or media could have been also stalking around that they couldn't have anticipated, unless they could read minds..... <br /><br />
Just because it was REALLY filmed or filmed in real time don't make it REAL or controlled, not that it was. <br />But, I wouldn't get defensive, I'm just saying it is possible to be controlled...even though it is realtime.<br />Actually, I would believe it ALL would've been controlled to have happened at all.
Mimi248, The idea of a real resurrection has crossed my mind. Think about all the clues such as "The Immortal World Tour", butterflies being a symbol of immortality and rebirth, all the symbols for eternity and immortality, all the sacred geometry in the Immortal world tour, all the things about the ancient egyptians who built the pyramids so they could resurrect. They had schools to learn how to achieve immortality. I think it was the pharoah Ashkenaten. Michael's statue as a pharoah on the history album. There are so many clues. And then the thoughts about Archangel Michael, and the similarities with Jesus. His nephew had called him Archangel Michael. This also goes with the green man and peter pan story. People are also referring to Osiris who was the first egyptian to have rebirth or resurrection. <br /><br />Michael also had a painting or a mural that said something about being a multi-dimensional being. During the This Is It movie, many were saying he was an angel walking the earth. Most would agree he is very spiritual and seems connected to God. Also, in the movie was the DNA spiral or strands. So think about starseeds, E.T's, light beings, indigo children, the pleidians. All of this is working together. We are coming to a new age of peace according to the Mayan Calendar, Sumerians, Nostradamus and more. Think about higher dimensions etc. <br /><br />You can call me delusional if you want but I'm having like thoughts with Mimi248. I think the answer to all of this is waaaaaay outside the box. Of great importance for the world. "a new reality, spiritual revolution and awakening". I'm praying for it anyway. <br /><br />Love <br /><br />
<br />Just because it was REALLY filmed or filmed in real time don't make it REAL or controlled, not that it was. <br />But, I wouldn't get defensive, I'm just saying it is possible to be controlled...even though it is realtime.<br />Actually, I would believe it ALL would've been controlled to have happened at all.<br />
<br /><br />ahhh excuse me??.....I'm not getting defensive :roll: I was responding to your comment to me....<br /><br />As my earlier post states, yes I think that MJ would have wanted to control the whole thing - but could he control who turned up that day outside Carolwood if it was all filmed as it happened?? and therefore who else could have potentially got a photo besides Ben???..which may have been the wrong photo.....possibly of "nothing" in the ambulance? <br /><br />I don't think he could have controlled that aspect - that 's why I think he needed the least risky option of what went in the ambulance for "reality purposes" in case something OUT OF HIS CONTROL went wrong...not only outside Carolwood but also in the transporting to UCLA. <br /><br />Hence why I think it's either an identical MJ Dummy or possibly a corpse. But I am leaning more towards the dummy theory.
@Fordtocarr your post about corpses made me LOL. It seems morbid and unnecessary at first, but it's actually not. <br />Before people deem a corpse as "useless" research the subject first. They are used for many things and are as plausible as a dummy.<br /><br /> And smh @ the MJ is Jesus theory. No offense, but really? I'm pretty sure Michael studied Egyptology and the occult; which simply means hidden knowledge (although The Bible does speak against it) hence the symbology; I don't think he's trying to say "I'm Jesus". That would contradict his own alleged beliefs, including The Bible itself.
I know corpses are used for research...but I don't know about bringing one HOME. I still think that there could be laws on that for health reasons...<br />Honestly, I think that it's just not safe to handle dead people for hygienic reasons, and I think that's why the practice of home funerals are pretty much not done any longer. Also, to use a corpse, as I've stated, what about rigor??? I could be wrong, and I could be wrong about what ADI said too, but WTH, it's my opinion and I have one just like everyone else, and most of our guesses will prob. be wrong. <br />I just will be SHOCKED if Michael used DEAD person to stage a hoax.
<br />@Fordtocarr your post about corpses made me LOL. It seems morbid and unnecessary at first, but it's actually not. <br />Before people deem a corpse as "useless" research the subject first. They are used for many things and are as plausible as a dummy.<br />
<br /><br />Before telling me to do my research, maybe you should read what I wrote first. I am NOT against the corpse theory, and I am fully aware of the fact that they COULD have used one, but I have an unanswered question: WHY a corpse instead of a dummy? Why did they choose a corpse? So before telling me to do my research, come up with a coherent theory about the necessarity of a corpse first. Really, I am open to it, but I need good arguments first. Just the fact that it's possible won't do. It's also possible to have Jermaine on that stretcher, doesn't mean it happened. So tell me why and if you have good arguments, I am open to changing my mind.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />Pure Love didn't you listen to Ben???? He says at 0:30 that DURING THOSE 40 MINUTES THE AMBULANCE WAS INSIDE THE RESIDENCE - 8 TO 10 EMPLOYEES LEFT THE PREMISES !!!<br /><br /><br />They left before the ambulance left so I don't think they saw the stretcher.<br /><br />Purelove I think you are tired and I am too...I give you the exact minute where to listen and you don't hear?<br /><br />I go to bed now, see you tomorrow bearhug<br /><br />
I watched the 5th part of her testimony and she doesn't say anything like she left the property.
<br /><br />It's not the fifh part, it's the 3rd part, I posted it above, listen at 13 /scream/ /scream/ /scream/ /scream/ crash/ crash/<br />
<br /><br />I'm not tired gina. You are overreacting before you understand what I say. I watched the videos you posted BUT ALSO I watched the 5th part of her testimony. And she didn't say that she left the house in the 5th part too. That's what I was saying. Ben says employees left but which ones? Is Kai one of them? Maybe yes, maybe no. I'm not opposing that she left the house before the ambulance, so I don't get why you are screaming at my face. I think we should all be patient and try to understand what every each of us are trying to say. There's no need for frustration and overreacting.
<br />A corpse that was dead on the 25th would be useful if the paramedics were not in on the hoax. And if we're trying to keep as few people as we can in on the hoax, then we can skip the paramedics. They could be deceived by a corpse. I don't know about the doctors tho if they could be deceived or not but the DA has to be in on it. A corpse would explain why the room was heated in the middle of summer and why the paramedics told that they couldn't recognize MJ and told that the man was an old, fragile, Asian man. Probably the paramedics were told about the hoax later and that is the reason why they changed their statements at the trial about recognizing MJ. This is one of the corpse theories.<br /><br />The second theory of mine about the corpse is; a corpse was used not because the paramedics didn't know about the hoax or the doctors but a corpse was used for them to tell what they really did with the corpse instead of pretending and saying things. Talking about the actual motions is easier to create things in your mind and pretend what you did with the body. [/b]<br />
<br /><br />And for remembering real events, a dummy would do. Using a real corpse just for that reason, seems useless, it's still a dead human being you're dealing with. <br />
<br /><br />Well you can not apply all the procedures on a dummy. And I do believe that a real body would be more useful for the paramedics and the doctors to apply all the procedures on it and tell about what they did instead of pretending doing all the stuff. To me this is a plausible necessarity of using a corpse.<br />
<br /><br />Oh? Do you think it's easy to intubate a long dead corpse? You can do many things with a dummy. You can intubate it, perform CPR on it, give it mouth-to-mouth etc. They even have dummies these days that can give birth to a baby dummy. Handeling a dummy is much easier than using a corpse. Plus you will damage the body: break ribs, damage tissue etc. So as long as there is no valid reason to use it, it's useless.<br />
<br /><br />I'm not opposing to the dummy theory. That is very plausible as well but still the corpse theory fits perfectly in my mind. I mentioned in my first post that the corpse needed to be died soon, actually on the 25th. <br />
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<br />A corpse that was dead on the 25th would be useful if the paramedics were not in on the hoax.
<br />And that is the reason why the room was hot, and they were trying to keep the body warm. Handeling a dummy is easier but still it doesn't give the reality for the paramedics and the doctors to tell what they did on it. I think there would be no problem at all to break the ribs etc with a donated corpse. Plus we heard that the ribs were broken during the CPR.
@TS, I concede I see what's probably a leg where you highlighted.<br /><br />Poop.<br /><br />But like Andrea said, I don't agree that by itself means the Live MJ theory is debunked. Each option is fraught with risk so I don't think you can use "risk" as supportive evidence against anything. If avoiding "risk" were a major concern, MJ would have given up before he began the hoax. I'm a mess this weekend but I have to say this straight away to the current topic:<br /><br />Who says the room was hot? Or should I say says who? It wasn't even testified to. I don't understand why this rumor has been elevated to accepted truth?<br /><br />In any case months ago I posted a thing about how the coroner determines t.o.d. and it has to do with the body core temp vs. the ambient room temp, it's a mathematical equation, you plug the numbers in and it gives you a number of hours since death. At that time no one had recorded the room temp at Carrolwood (no record of it and no statement made) and I don't think this ever changed. <br /><br />Considering the Coroner would be the one to use room temp and compare it to core temp (think meat thermometer...), and the Paramedics took no "room temp" readings to include in their report, and the Coroner showed up hours later... IF the room temp actually was elevated... it's purpose was probably more likely to prevent a dummy from being too cool to the touch... then to warm up a frozen corpse.
<br />@TS, I concede I see what's probably a leg where you highlighted.<br /><br />Who says the room was hot? Or should I say says who? It wasn't even testified to. I don't understand why this rumor has been elevated to accepted truth?<br /><br />
<br /><br />There was also pictures of the room with a burning fireplace. A burning fireplace in the middle of summer. What else could it be for if it wasn't on to keep the newly dead body warm?
Preventing a dummy from being too cool to the touch? That was my last line Purelove, you prob missed it.<br /><br />Maybe the fireplace was turned on to fuel the "MJ was always cold and weak and shivering" rumors that Kenny was spreading.<br /><br />And so what about a pic? We have 2 pics of MJ's supposed dead body too. Look, I'm not trying to be difficult, there's problems with this theory.
I agree with Purelove, there is no need for frustration or overreacting. I personally am open to any theory, but given our options the most likely are a corpse and/or dummy.<br /><br /> Fordtocarr, TS said we should not look at what would have happened or would not have happened based upon what we feel MJ would or wouldn't do in a general sense, but in a logical sense in order to succeed pulling off a hoax of this scale. I myself didn't like the idea of a corpse but considered it is possible, especially now. If he faked his death for serious reasons too, then it is understandable and the public would grasp the idea better.<br /><br /> Souza, I wasn't implying you're dumb and should therefore do research, but if you did research you would know that the word "useless" is incorrect when applied to the corpse theory. That is saying it would have been ineffective which is wrong. Maybe more so than a dummy, a corpse would be of greater effect. If you read my posts and others, I have given a coherent theory as to why a corpse or dummy, or even both, were used. I did not say it is 100% fact, but given our options it is most plausible. And yes, it is possible Jermaine could have been on the stretcher, but not probable. There is a difference. <br /><br /> Like I said, maybe both a dummy and corpse were used. In what order, I don't know, but a freshly deceased corpse would be suitable. They are able to be "experimented" on for up to 10 hrs; that is all that is needed.
Suzy7, I don't think you understood a word of what I said.<br /><br />@PureLove, you have not given me one good reason why a corpse would be required. Like I said: if it is only for creating a scenario, a dummy could do the trick.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I do indeed understand what you wrote, perhaps that is vice versa.<br /><br />You asked: why a corpse instead of a dummy?<br /><br />I answered: It could have been both, but a corpse could have been more *effective*. Consider the fact that it's a real body and more than two personnel were present at the hospital who were most likely not in the know.<br /><br />My coherent theory shows BOTH are probable. Anyway, let's not be rude, english is in fact my native language.
Ok, that's it you two. To your separate corners, Souza and Suzy. No more off topic bickering allowed. If I have to let MissG have the last word 8 pages ago, then you can't carry on either. I just deleted your little fight.<br /><br />Let that be a lesson to us all :twisted: argue/ bangbang
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."