It's the 7th of December, maybe TS will show up bounce/ bounce/ bounce/<br />maybe tomorrow morning I find a post from TS here bounce/ bounce/ bounce/<br />Or from Michael :shock: How cool would that be bounce/
@bec and AussieMJ, I feel your frustration. TS can be ambiguous as hell and is certainly an enigma but I fear we may be turning this into a "figure out TS" rather than "figure out what happened to Michael". TS can place stumbling blocks but he has also given us abundant guidance. <br /><br />I don't think that the reasons for WHY or HOW Michael appears to be MIA will help us figure out WHAT happened. For instance, claims of a fan sting simply confuses us and does nothing to help us progress (red herring). This is a puzzle piece I would prefer to put to the side for the time being. The same goes for the various disguises (hatman, DD) and fuzzy videos, even though I realise this would indeed be an extremely convenient shortcut! It would at least prove MJ is alive.<br /><br />Sticking to principles of critical thinking we cannot use the evidence to support the premise (premises being MJ planned the hoax years ago, MJ died of accidental propofol, MJ was murdered, MJ escaped murder attempt but had to stage his death) . We must allow the evidence to lead us to the premise (conclusion) and we must consider ALL the evidence not just what supports our own particular theory. As an analogy, a crime scene investigator cannot go onto a scene with the premise that a murder took place and then gather evidence which supports his stance. He must gather ALL the evidence before reaching a conclusion and he must be prepared to vary his opinion according to the evidence. <br /><br />In this regard we have a tough task, as much of the evidence we are using has been proven to be questionable or deliberately placed to mislead, but not all of it, not all of it by a long shot. <br /><br />So, lets go back, right to the beginning, right to the O2 announcements and bring forward what we know, what we have debunked and what has been neither confirmed nor unconfirmed (grey areas). No conjecture or interpretation, just what we saw and heard. We need to create a timeline and include all the characters in place at each particular moment. We need to check and cross check the alibis of people, the testimonies of the bodyguards because if Michael escaped at Carolwood someone had to take him. We need to find alibis for Randy, Kenny, Arnold, Miko, Lou F, Frank D, Jermaine and any staff not previously spotlighted. It may be more important to know who WASN'T there than who was. We know so much now and I think by using a little hindsight and fresh eyes the answers we are searching for are right in front of us. <br /><br />So to start the timeline: <br /><br />March 5th '09: Michael went to London to announce his 10 "This Is It" concerts at the O2 Arena for July. He was 90 minutes late. Conjecture we need to add later- was it really Michael, why was he late, why did he go all the way to London to make the announcement (an announcement that took all of 2 minutes), why did he not complete his sentence "this is really it, because, uhmmmmm..."? <br /><br />March 8-11th '09: This Is It tickets go on presale. 350,000 are snapped up. 10 concerts sold out.<br /><br />March 12th '09: Concert dates are increased to 50. <br /><br />March 13th '09: Further tickets go on sale.<br /><br />There is so much more we can add later, but we need to have an outline before we can add the details and there will be pages of details. What stands out for me, even here, is the short timespan between the presale and the increase in dates (hopefully my dates are correct). Was Michael even consulted?<br /><br />If we continue this way much will stand out and I think it is the only methodical method we can use to reach any kind of determination. It will also serve to have all the solid information in one place where we can help each other rather than having it scattered around like chicken feed to be easily overlooked.<br /><br />Much L.O.V.E as always<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
It was a really sunny day in LA and we were riding to Malibu Beach when our friend called and told us Michael Jackson died 5 minutes ago! We happened to be right next to UCLA medical center where he was taken right after his cardiac arrest. We snuck into the UCLA Medical Center building. We went in the back door, up the elevator, back down, [size=10pt]and out the front door, where the UCLA Medical staff, fire men, and security guards were creating a decoy scene of his body being taken away to distract the media.[/size] We walked through the chaos and saw two choppers leave and realized that they may have taken him out the back door. We were totally shocked and saddened to loose not one but two legends of our generation in the same day! We left and went to Malibu, listening to Michael Jackson songs on every radio station the whole way, celebrating Michael and Farrah’s lives and appreciating ours!
@heartsong I agree with the methodical approach but the problem is we don't have access to all information, we have to work with what we have and it is not enough. At least it doesn't seem to be enough.<br /><br />Paula - that proves there was a decoy scene to distract the media, but I don't really understand how it was: they wanted to make it appear that the body was taken away by the front door at UCLA, while in fact it was in the chopper?<br /><br />I don't know who wrote what you quoted but they had a good spirit of observation if they noticed there was a decoy going on in order to distract the media and also they notice who arranged the decoy - UCLA Medical staff, fire men, and security guards. This means some of those people saw the body? And what was used for the decoy, pillows under a sheet?<br /><br /><br /><br />
As far as the body is concerned that is my way of seeing it.<br /><br />We (the public) saw only what we were supposed to see, what we were given to see.<br /><br />Scene 1 - ambulance at home<br />Scene 2 - ambulance at UCLA<br />Scene 3 - Jermaine saying MJ was dead<br />Scene 4 - body transferred by helicopter<br />Scene 5 - funeral<br /><br />There are not many films or even photos available from these scenes, what in light of MJ scale and media firepower and in the era of mobile phones is pretty puzzling. <br /><br />For example: the film with the helicopter view of body being transferred (the "moving" body) - how come this film happened? Who gave a tip to the filming crew? Since all was kept secret and there is no one from UCLA or any other public service engaged ever speaking about this day - how did they know, when and how the body was to be transferred? Who told them? Was the filming helicopter hanging around just in case?<br /><br /><br /><br />
For example: the film with the helicopter view of body being transferred (the "moving" body) - how come this film happened? Who gave a tip to the filming crew? Since all was kept secret and there is no one from UCLA or any other public service engaged ever speaking about this day - how did they know, when and how the body was to be transferred? Who told them? Was the filming helicopter hanging around just in case?
<br /><br />This is a good question but we don't know the answer. What channels aired it live?
<br />@heartsong I agree with the methodical approach but the problem is we don't have access to all information, we have to work with what we have and it is not enough. At least it doesn't seem to be enough.<br /><br />Paula - that proves there was a decoy scene to distract the media, but I don't really understand how it was: they wanted to make it appear that the body was taken away by the front door at UCLA, while in fact it was in the chopper?<br /><br />I don't know who wrote what you quoted but they had a good spirit of observation if they noticed there was a decoy going on in order to distract the media and also they notice who arranged the decoy - UCLA Medical staff, fire men, and security guards. This means some of those people saw the body? And what was used for the decoy, pillows under a sheet?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />In 2009 it was said to be woman known in the USA, i do not know if model or an actress, say that Playboy model ... his name is Heather Chadwell and pop artist Sham Ibrahim and were in the UCLA this June 25.<br /><br />I do believe that something" to get to the UCLA this June 25, and those who do know of this were those that had been in contact with the "body" one or two paramedics, the doctor at the hospital and the medical examiner
<br />(...) <br />So, lets go back, right to the beginning, right to the O2 announcements and bring forward what we know, what we have debunked and what has been neither confirmed nor unconfirmed (grey areas). No conjecture or interpretation, just what we saw and heard. We need to create a timeline and include all the characters in place at each particular moment. (...)<br /><br /><br />
I do believe that something" to get to the UCLA this June 25, and those who do know of this were those that had been in contact with the "body" one or two paramedics, the doctor at the hospital and the medical examiner
<br /><br />I agree. The difficult part is to define that "something".
Thank you so much VeryLittleSusie. I haven't had time to have a detailed look yet but seems someone else has the same idea! I can't seem to see if there is a timeline for the period leading up to June 25th? I will search the site you gave us a bit closer.<br /><br />paula-c this is the type of information that we can slot in to the suitable places in the timeline. There will be much info at each point with much of it contradicting other info we already have, unfortunately. I'm not saying this info contradicts, it may just add to what we already know. But to confirm this particular info we do have CC / media footage taken at the front door (I think). I don't recall attention ever being brought to the front door of UCLA. Still, it fits with the often heard statements of Michael's pap evasion techniques, namely "we'll pretend to go this way but we'll really go that way..." The main point is that we need to consider ALL the information.<br /><br />gina, I hear your frustration. Believe me I am too. But please, look at what we DO have not at what we don't. I think we have much, much more than we realise and I think the answers we seek are right in front of us. Think wheat and chaff not needle and haystack...<br /><br />
It's an illusion, a very successful illusion. We can guess all day but the reality of the matter is, by simple virtue, we will not be able to determine what really happened without hearing from the Illusionist himself. I suggest we all take back's advice.
<br />If you say there's no way we can learn what happened without Michael, then why TS opened this thread??<br />
<br /><br />I think bec is saying it will be difficult due to the illusion factor, not that we can't figure it out. We already know that if clues make us look left we should really look right. That is why the evidence needs to be matched up, as every single piece seems to vary in one way or another .<br /><br />That is your blog Susie?! I knew we had stuff here we were overlooking. Such great work! <br /><br />So... what's with the report on August 27 2009 about the search warrant reults- we now know that is outright rubbish...<br /><br />And this...August 30, 2009 – News of the World report: "Jackson RESET THE MACHINE CONTROLLING THE DRIP, increasing the dosage which led to the heart attack that killed him." The defense claimed at trial there was no infusion pump even though prosecution eventually proved there must have been. So, does this mean someone let on to the media way back in 2009?<br /><br />See, we can match previous stuff up to what we now know and therein lays da troot! <br /><br />L.O.V.E. and keep the faith<br /><br />...
<br />If you say there's no way we can learn what happened without Michael, then why TS opened this thread??<br />
<br /><br />I don't know. I don't know why he did any of the levels. There must be some purpose I am not understanding right now.<br />
<br /><br />To train our brains?<br />To keep us here and occupied?<br />To 'test' us?<br />To prove to himself that the hoax can't be proved (with what has been presented to the world), and therefore the great illusion was totally successful?
<br />If you say there's no way we can learn what happened without Michael, then why TS opened this thread??<br />
<br /><br />I don't know. I don't know why he did any of the levels. There must be some purpose I am not understanding right now.<br />
<br /><br />This is what I think too, but since too long already. Without Michael nothing can be explained. Without having Michael back here with us, I'll never understand what happened. I can only suppose. Nothing is clear
<br />If you say there's no way we can learn what happened without Michael, then why TS opened this thread??<br />
<br /><br />I don't know. I don't know why he did any of the levels. There must be some purpose I am not understanding right now.<br />
<br /><br />To train our brains?<br />To keep us here and occupied?<br />To 'test' us?<br />To prove to himself that the hoax can't be proved (with what has been presented to the world), and therefore the great illusion was totally successful?<br />
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Good point Curls albino/ !!! To keep us occupied with what the RIGHT HAND ,meantime the LEFT HAND did everything.The Illusion was perfect and we still don't know a DAM THING,lol lolol/ .We are BACK from where we came from: 25 june 2009,NADA,ZERO.The Illusionist wins and we the audience are like WTF WTF?? had just happened :? ???? Was THIS even REAL geek/ ??? [/size]
<br /><br />To train our brains?<br />To keep us here and occupied?<br />To 'test' us?<br />To prove to himself that the hoax can't be proved (with what has been presented to the world), and therefore the great illusion was totally successful?<br /><br />
<br /><br />Because he himself doesn't know what happened, therefore the reason he hasn't concluded the level 7, no matter how much you guys have tried to help ?<br />
To prove to himself that the hoax can't be proved (with what has been presented to the world), and therefore the great illusion was totally successful?
<br />If you say there's no way we can learn what happened without Michael, then why TS opened this thread??<br />
<br /><br />I don't know. I don't know why he did any of the levels. There must be some purpose I am not understanding right now.<br />
<br /><br />I am currently feeling a bit sick that I have been 'wasting' my time reading long confusing posts and trying to understand everything, when I should really have been improving my website, designing more products, spending more time with Mother, helping my sons with their problems, keeping my house cleaner and making nicer meals for my family. pale/<br /><br />Hope to feel more positive tomorrow. :?<br />
It was a really sunny day in LA and we were riding to Malibu Beach when our friend called and told us Michael Jackson died 5 minutes ago! We happened to be right next to UCLA medical center where he was taken right after his cardiac arrest. We snuck into the UCLA Medical Center building. We went in the back door, up the elevator, back down, [size=10pt]and out the front door, where the UCLA Medical staff, fire men, and security guards were creating a decoy scene of his body being taken away to distract the media.[/size] We walked through the chaos and saw two choppers leave and realized that they may have taken him out the back door. We were totally shocked and saddened to loose not one but two legends of our generation in the same day! We left and went to Malibu, listening to Michael Jackson songs on every radio station the whole way, celebrating Michael and Farrah’s lives and appreciating ours!
<br /><br />MJHDI.com<br />
<br /><br />Heartsong - thank you for your efforts.<br /><br />I do remember reading this story - very interesting that they were allowed to go through the back, up and down elevators and through the front without someone redirecting them. I say this because if there was so much effort from security, etc., to cause a distraction wouldn't they be aware of who was wandering the halls?<br /><br />I found this and thought I'd post it because the timeline is off. This is from someone else who was there for an appointment that day.<br /><br />
Postby ILuvUMoreMJ » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:51 am<br />I remember reading that before, probably on the old board. These people below say that they didn't evacuate the building MJ was in...they direct the post at us hoaxers and ask us not to post the link to their blog, so I'll just copy what they said...<br /><br />Thursday, June 25, 2009<br />A very interesting follow up at UCLA today...<br /><br />PLEASE READ: If you have made your way to this website via "Michael Jackson Death Hoax" dot com, please know that the administrator at that website has used this post to support incorrect information. The fire alarm that is discussed below was for the 200 Medical Center Building in the Peter Morton Center. This building is next door to the Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center Hospital where Michael Jackson did in fact die on June 25, 2009. The hospital did not have a fire drill, nor was it ever evacuated during the time that the Jackson family was there. It was later determined that the fire alarm at the 200 building was pulled by a paparazzi to create a distraction so he/she could sneak into the hospital. I have tried to find a contact or an e-mail for the administrator at the Michael Jackson Death Hoax website but conveniently for him or her, one cannot be found. If the administrator reads this, please correct your post and remove your link to this website. If you don't, I will make a formal complaint to Wordpress about your site.<br /><br />Today I had another follow up appointment with my oncologist at UCLA, and while there, Brett and I got caught in the middle of the Michael Jackson media frenzy regarding his death in the building next to the one we were in. What a sad loss at only age 50.<br /><br />The day started routine, I arrived a little late for my 12:30 blood draw. Because the results take an hour, Brett and I walked into Westwood to Chili's for lunch. This was a good 3 block walk for me and I'm getting stronger. Apparently, while eating at Chili's, Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, was brought to UCLA Medical Center by ambulance in Cardiac Arrest around 1:00. As we walked back to my 1:30 appointment, Brett and I noticed a helicopter that was hovering the hospital and seemed out of of place since it wasn't landing. Once we got in and into our waiting room for my doctor, we jumped onto WiFi to read in the news what was going on. We couldn't believe we were right there. As we waited, we heard the news of Michael Jackson's death via Twitter. The helicopter sounds grew, and we were curious what was building outside. The nurses weren't really confirming anything, but it was obvious some were in the know.<br /><br />After waiting almost two hours (my oncologist was fitting me in) we finally got to the exam with my doctor. My rash is healing, and the pain I am feeling and describing is my entire body growing a new layer of skin. She said two more weeks and I should be through the worst of it. She was very pleased with how I was healing, and my White Blood Cell counts, Hemoglobin and Platelets couldn't be more normal - I could donate platelets now if they'd let me! And then as we were about to get to some bigger questions, a fire alarm went off. We had to evacuate the building with the doctors and nurses and stand outside as the media frenzy was growing regarding Michael Jackson. I think a Paparazzi probably pulled the alarm as a distraction. Still, we had to wait for the fire truck and the all clear, within yards of the entrance to the hospital where Michael Jackson was.<br /><br />In fact, after the little fire alarm, we found out that one of the nurses (the one who takes my vitals) was approached by a young black man as we were waiting for the all clear. He told her his name was Jermaine Jackson, Jr. and he needed help finding the entrance to the hospital, so she escorted him. She was just a few feet away, and we missed it! Once we got the "all clear", we went back in to finish my appointment. At that point, a lot of the nursing staff was confirming that Michael Jackson had indeed passed away. Not sure if we knew ahead of everyone else, but it was still shocking news to say the least. The good news about the rest of my appointment: I am still cancer free, and I no longer need to have blood draws at home! Yay!<br /><br />Once our appointment was done, it was around 4:30, and Brett and I started to leave, hearing that streets had been closed and we may run into problems. When we got outside, we couldn't believe the change. Seven satellite TV trucks lined up and thousands of people with flowers, signs, etc. We decided that since we were thrust into the middle of it, we may as well get a couple of cell phone photos. It was amazing, it was almost like within an hour, thousands of people were there at the hospital. Here are the two photos I managed to take on my cell phone:<br /><br />And of course, we had some more drama. As we tried to cross the street to take photos, I tripped over my flip flop and skinned up my arm and leg. It happened right in front of two paramedics and they did nothing. They must have thought I was some Michael Jackson fanatic. Brett was hoping to get interviewed so he could say, "Michael who?" He has such a sense of humor! We went back to oncology where they patched me up, and then we were finally on the way home.<br /><br />We made it out of the parking the "back way" on Gayley very easily and hit some traffic on the way home. It was a long, strange day. But lots of good news amongst the sad news in Hollywood with Farrah and Michael. I hope they rest in peace.
<br /><br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3844&start=25<br /><br />So, this person had an appointment there that day and this is the timeframe according to them:<br /><br />12:30 - blood draw<br />after 12:30 - walked to a nearby restaurant<br />1:00 - While eating they heard Michael was taken to UCLA<br />1:30 - walked back (3 blocks) to UCLA for the appointment<br />after 1:30 - helicopter was hovering overhead and seemed out of place since it wasn't landing<br />after 1:30 - Once inside got onto WiFi and read that Michael had died via Twitter<br /> Helicopter sounds grew. Some nurses were obviously "in the know"<br />waited two hours for their appointment....(would put it around 3:30 PM)<br />after 3:30 - fire alarm went off. Had to evacuate building (they were in building next to hospital). They think Paps pulled fire alarm as a distraction. Had to wait for all clear.<br /><br />Jermaine Jr shows up at hospital (around 3:30 pm???)<br /><br />Once allowed back in after fire alarm - nurses were confirming that MJ had died.<br /><br />They notice "7" satellite TV trucks line up.
<br /><br />To train our brains?<br />To keep us here and occupied?<br />To 'test' us?<br />To prove to himself that the hoax can't be proved (with what has been presented to the world), and therefore the great illusion was totally successful?<br /><br />
<br /><br />[size=14pt][size=18pt][shadow=red,left]Because he himself doesn't know what happened, therefore the reason he hasn't concluded the level 7, no matter how much you guys have tried to help ?[/shadow][/size][/size]<br /><br />
<br /><br /> <br /><br />This is very... very possible, for me now! /bravo/<br /><br />
<br /><br />To train our brains?<br />To keep us here and occupied?<br />To 'test' us?<br />To prove to himself that the hoax can't be proved (with what has been presented to the world), and therefore the great illusion was totally successful?<br /><br />
<br /><br />Because he himself doesn't know what happened, therefore the reason he hasn't concluded the level 7, no matter how much you guys have tried to help ?<br />
<br /><br />I'm 100% sure that TS knows what happened, how happened and why happened. And there is a good reason why he hasn't concluded level 7 yet. Probably level 7 is going to be concluded after the BAM. I have full trust in him. And we will be learning soon. This is the final silence before the big storm which is BAM in our case. That's how I feel.
<br /><br />To train our brains?<br />To keep us here and occupied?<br />To 'test' us?<br />To prove to himself that the hoax can't be proved (with what has been presented to the world), and therefore the great illusion was totally successful?<br /><br />
<br /><br />Because he himself doesn't know what happened, therefore the reason he hasn't concluded the level 7, no matter how much you guys have tried to help ?<br />
<br /><br />I'm 100% sure that TS knows what happened, how happened and why happened. And there is a good reason why he hasn't concluded level 7 yet. Probably level 7 is going to be concluded after the BAM. I have full trust in him. And we will be learning soon. This is the final silence before the big storm which is BAM in our case. That's how I feel. <br />
<br /><br />Me too! I think all will be revealed soon enough - post BAM. As to expecting the BAM date, I am sure that there have been many days that Michael wished he could have bammed, but since this whole scheme is so elaborate and the pie is not done yet (Especially if it is a sting and that is not complete) it might be taking longer than originally envisioned. When you realise that this is just not a movie or an entertainment product - you will understand that no one can decide just when everything will fall into place and it will be safe for Michael to return. I think more than us, his family and close friends must be eagerly waiting for BAM day too and most importantly MJ too.
"The value would be greater,<br /> <br />you let it rumble,<br /> <br />let it stay open,<br /><br />let it close in silence."<br /><br />Silence often does speak louder than words. Here's to hoping that we're in the 'closing' stretch <br /><br />My bottle's been chillin' on faith...and it's ice cold.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br /><br />
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