YES!!! like this and especially like in the video i posted up.<br /><br />i think for me personally i have finally come to the two murray's thing. woo hoo! breakthru for me. (i love coming to new understandings - even if i am delayed and behind compared to other members) <br /><br />thanks 2good x
<br />Simpa, congrats on another excellent video, MJ=CM 2!<br /> :th_bravo: :th_bravo:<br /><br /><br />Yikes, I found it!!!!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Has this been mentioned before anywhere guys?<br /><br />So is this MJ closet for his disguises?<br />So ya know where I'm goin' with the make-up on the shirt now!!!!<br /><br />We'll "keep it in the closet" alright! :icon_lol:<br />
<br /><br />One more thought:<br /><br />Wasn´t that the same closet where Doc Murray supposedly had stored large amounts of Propofol along with I.V. equipment?<br /><br />So if the jacket clue is pointing towards the possibility of the closet being a storage for (hoax)props we certainly know what to think about Prop-ofol, don´t we? :icon_mrgreen:<br /><br />I know that Prop-ofol is not a new idea but I really like the analogy that can be drawn here in this particular case.<br /><br />Nice add-on.
there is no natural movement in his forehead or brow whatsoever. if this isnt serious botox wacked in there, then it certainly is face putty / prothetic / make up or mask. i am leaning towards the later.
<br /><br />Yeah this is damning. I can't get over it actually. Do we have any pics of Murray furrowing his brow? I do it all the time, especially when engaged in conversation, I'll notice. Eyebrows go up n down depending on emotion of the words, brow furrows, eyes narrow or open, etc. Murray's face is frozen except for his mouth. It's not normal nor biologically natural.<br /><br />Additionally, I've thought it is possible for those to be MJs eyes, if the bottom lid is built up and part of the facial prosthetic, it would diminish the size and disguise the shape of the natural eye.<br /><br />I'm pretty convinced video statement(s) Murray is a man in a mask. And I'm convinced that man would be no one other then MJ.<br /><br />curls:<br />
Out on a limb here: courtroom Murray = actor, video/photo Murray = MJ<br /><br />How does that sound?!
May be when it comes to videos or photos, then it could be MJ we are seeing because photos can be photoshopped and videos can be edited. But when Murray is around other people like in court for example, then it is Murray, the actor. (my theory!)
Alright...hodgepodge of thoughts in my head by now. :icon_e_confused:<br /><br />The following is only semi-serious and very far-fetched but still entertaining IMO, so I´ll throw it in here for you.<br /><br />Remember this "Crime scene" pic?:<br /><br /><br /><br />The toothpaste tube on the bed. Always struck me as one of the oddest items there. <br /><br />We´ve talked about Doc Murray´s teeth ( "lying through his teeth"). Possible clue or am I officially nuts? :icon_e_wink:<br /><br />
A little nuts, Mary :icon_e_wink:<br /><br />I'm glad you posted that pic again. It's been a long time. New/old perspective says OF COURSE this is a staged pic. Why would MJ sleep on one side of the bed? This is what married people do, or people who are used to sleeping with another person or a pet. They have a side they sleep on even if they are alone in the bed, it's just a habit. But people who are single or not used to sleeping with another person or a pet would really have no pressure to drive this habit of sleeping off center and tend to sleep more near the middle of the bed. Not only are there two sets of pillows on the bed, as if denoting a space for another person, the bed clothes indicate a side sleeper as well. And not just a slight side preference, but it's as if the person were all cramped and nearly hanging off the side like when the person next to them is a bed hog.<br /><br />Additionally, I'm not so sure now that's a toothpaste tube box, I know it's been widely accepted as such and not challenged to my knowledge in light of 834867459 other things more interesting about this pic and the situation at the time it was this was first introduced. But looking at it now that box could be anything. Maybe its a box of that skin cream that was so important. Maybe The Sun just thought it was toothpaste and decided on the caption and thus it became toothpaste. I don't know. <br /><br />@diggyon, that's a good theory. Perhaps like Dave Dave, the Murray mask is based on a real person, that real person being the actor who plays Dr. Conrad Murray in the liver performance portion.<br /><br />I watched the video again. Murray does move his eye brows briefly and gently at one point in the recent video. But watch, they move together as if an entire unit across his upper eye orbit area, not two eyebrows but one eyebrow ridge, do you see? 1:00-1:02 in the video Aussie posted from TMZ. "...a sounding board for Michael's person problems and emotional pains". His forehead remains without a wrinkle and afterwards his face goes right back to being exactly the same expression as before the movement.<br /><br />I swear that's a mask. Well, partial mask/facial prosthesis/makeup, Hollywood big budget style.
<br />A little nuts, Mary :icon_e_wink:<br /><br />I'm glad you posted that pic again. It's been a long time. New/old perspective says OF COURSE this is a staged pic. Why would MJ sleep on one side of the bed? This is what married people do, or people who are used to sleeping with another person or a pet. They have a side they sleep on even if they are alone in the bed, it's just a habit. But people who are single or not used to sleeping with another person or a pet would really have no pressure to drive this habit of sleeping off center and tend to sleep more near the middle of the bed. Not only are there two sets of pillows on the bed, as if denoting a space for another person, the bed clothes indicate a side sleeper as well. And not just a slight side preference, but it's as if the person were all cramped and nearly hanging off the side like when the person next to them is a bed hog.<br /><br />Additionally, I'm not so sure now that's a toothpaste tube box, I know it's been widely accepted as such and not challenged to my knowledge in light of 834867459 other things more interesting about this pic and the situation at the time it was this was first introduced. But looking at it now that box could be anything. Maybe its a box of that skin cream that was so important. Maybe The Sun just thought it was toothpaste and decided on the caption and thus it became toothpaste. I don't know. <br /><br />@diggyon, that's a good theory. Perhaps like Dave Dave, the Murray mask is based on a real person, that real person being the actor who plays Dr. Conrad Murray in the liver performance portion.<br /><br />I watched the video again. Murray does move his eye brows briefly and gently at one point in the recent video. But watch, they move together as if an entire unit across his upper eye orbit area, not two eyebrows but one eyebrow ridge, do you see? 1:00-1:02 in the video Aussie posted from TMZ. "...a sounding board for Michael's person problems and emotional pains". His forehead remains without a wrinkle and afterwards his face goes right back to being exactly the same expression as before the movement.<br /><br />I swear that's a mask. Well, partial mask/facial prosthesis/makeup, Hollywood big budget style.<br />
<br /><br />Lol...thank you so much bec :icon_mrgreen:<br /><br />Well yes, it´s been a long time. <br />Personally (even though I am not a long-term hoaxer like many of you) I love to go back to things that have been looked at and analyzed in the past over and over again. <br />Maybe there are still things out there that we might have overlooked. <br />For me that´s very entertaining and I am more than happy when the opportunity presents itself (like in this case). <br /><br />And even though I know that I will probably never be able to grasp the ingenuity of this hoax (and the mastermind behind the scenes) and sometimes it drives me crazy, I still am grateful and very much intrigued.<br />So thank you very much to all the hoax executives and participants...<br />and Michael, if you are reading: have I told you lately that I love you? :icon_e_wink: :bearhug:
I meant to say we're all a little nuts, Mary.<br /><br />You see those little brow lines on the inside of Murray's eyebrows as seen in the still of Aussie's post where she embedded it? Post #250. Those lines are always present throughout the video exactly how they appear in the still, they never change in size or appearance or move the whole time Murray speaks. They don't even change when Murray raises his brows at 1:00 mark. They move right with the eyebrows as if all one unit.
<br />I meant to say we're all a little nuts, Mary.<br /><br />You see those little brow lines on the inside of Murray's eyebrows as seen in the still of Aussie's post where she embedded it? Post #250. Those lines are always present throughout the video exactly how they appear in the still, they never change in size or appearance or move the whole time Murray speaks. They don't even change when Murray raises his brows at 1:00 mark. They move right with the eyebrows as if all one unit.<br />
<br /><br />I know bec. Was just kidding. :bearhug:<br /><br />As for the eyebrow/forehead thing: <br /><br />I totally agree with all you said.<br />I am with you on that. Must be a mask (or as you said partial mask/facial prosthesis/makeup). So unnatural. <br /><br />What I have also noticed is that he seems to be avoiding "speaking with his eyes". Know what I mean?<br />Litte or no emotion, wink or movement.
Here are Murray's pictures from his two videos.<br /><br />In the first one we see the arrows pointing at a skin area that is lighter than the rest of his face.<br /><br /><br /><br />The next picture is from the other video and again the arrows point at the same area that is still lighter than the rest of the face!<br /><br /><br />Still the same video, but a different angle, still the same area is lighter than the rest of the face. <br /><br /><br />I'm not a light expert but it seems to me that this area of his face is not lighter because of light reflection. It seems that this area is artificial in a way. Guys, what do you think?<br /><br />
<br />I am with you on that. Must be a mask (or as you said partial mask/facial prosthesis/makeup). So unnatural. <br />What I have also noticed is that he seems to be avoiding "speaking with his eyes". Know what I mean?<br />Litte or no emotion, wink or movement.<br />
<br /><br /><br />[size=12pt]i agree! he is acting a script,don't u think? but,i know:even if he had been the real mj's doctor,he would have "played" during a speech..... his body/face language makes me understand he's not spontaneous... i don't c spontaneous movements or eyes.[/size] :icon_e_surprised:<br /><br />[size=14pt]*LUNA*[/size]<br /><br /><br /><br />
Well even if this was real and Murray wasn't a character in the hoax, he would likely be reading off a script in his videotaped message. That would be considered normal in my opinion. You don't make a video taped message off the cuff, you plan what you are going to say and write it out, probably even read it when on camera if it's long. That was you're less likely to stumble or ramble and require more takes.
Additionally, I've thought it is possible for those to be MJs eyes, if the bottom lid is built up and part of the facial prosthetic, it would diminish the size and disguise the shape of the natural eye.<br />
<br /><br />Well said Bec, look at this Michael pic in disguise from Ghost video:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />We all know he is Michael for sure however if we hadn't known he was Michael we would say he is not him because his eyes look different, yes or not?
[...]OF COURSE this is a staged pic. Why would MJ sleep on one side of the bed? This is what married people do, or people who are used to sleeping with another person or a pet. They have a side they sleep on even if they are alone in the bed, it's just a habit. But people who are single or not used to sleeping with another person or a pet would really have no pressure to drive this habit of sleeping off center and tend to sleep more near the middle of the bed. Not only are there two sets of pillows on the bed, as if denoting a space for another person, the bed clothes indicate a side sleeper as well. And not just a slight side preference, but it's as if the person were all cramped and nearly hanging off the side like when the person next to them is a bed hog.[...]
<br />Maybe Michael DID share the bed with someone.... a secret Lady in his life ! :icon_e_wink:<br />Or maybe the kids liked to sleep with their daddy from time to time... when they missed him or when they were scared at night...<br />I agree with you, the photo is staged... maybe even the bed is made to look like 2 people slept in it, who knows!<br /><br /><br /><br />
on 1342466086:
<br />Here are Murray's pictures from his two videos.<br />In the first one we see the arrows pointing at a skin area that is lighter than the rest of his face.<br />[....]<br />The next picture is from the other video and again the arrows point at the same area that is still lighter than the rest of the face!<br /><br />[...]<br />
^^ Not only his forehead, but also his cheeks<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />These are great print-screens @diggyon ; :th_bravo: <br />I think you're right! I think this could prove what @MJonMind said about the "bloody" shirt being actually dirty because of some brown facial-cream! Most probably that 'shirt' was used by Michael to wipe out the surplus of brown make-up or wipe his hands after he finished putting on the Murray-mask!
<br />Aussie, you mean like this ?? How sometimes his nostrils are wide and higher, and other times the nose looks different..<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Great montage! he really seems to have 2 noses :icon_lol:<br />Funny how even when he's in disguise, people still comment about his nose!! :thjajaja121:
there is no natural movement in his forehead or brow whatsoever. if this isnt serious botox wacked in there, then it certainly is face putty / prothetic / make up or mask. i am leaning towards the later.
<br /><br />Yeah this is damning. I can't get over it actually. Do we have any pics of Murray furrowing his brow? I do it all the time, especially when engaged in conversation, I'll notice. Eyebrows go up n down depending on emotion of the words, brow furrows, eyes narrow or open, etc. Murray's face is frozen except for his mouth. It's not normal nor biologically natural.<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />ok, confession time... all i know is that i personally have botox in two areas in my forehead (vain huh?) and i have waaaaaaaayyyyy more movement than murray has, both in my forehead and eyebrows. i have NEVER seen an alteration in his expression (in video messages) always the same. in those video messages he is talking about some pretty emotional stuff. yet zero facial movement.<br /><br /><br /><br />
Thank you Sim, I'm trying to improve my hoaxing skills. :LolLolLolLol:<br />As for the cheeks: I noticed they have a different color but was not sure weather they have light reflection on them or not.<br />The shirt is still confusing me. Would someone buy a white shirt just to wipe his hands with it after having a make-up? That's what towels are for. (or may be tissues?). May be this shirt doesn't belong to MJ and belongs to the make-up artist? If we see sergeants after an operation we might faint because of all the blood they have on their coats. Cooks have also soup and sauce stains on their shirts when they cook. So what about make-up artists? The one we know is Karen Faye. So if we find a picture of her wearing that shirt, then I believe the mystery of Murray is solved forever. (Just my theory!)
<br /><br />bwahahaha. thanks for posting this again mary! haven't seen it in a while. the instruction manual makes me laugh every time. and imagining murray supposedly doing CPR on the bed amongst twisted blackets, crap everywhere, dvd's, dolls, cushions, prayer beads, etc... it still baffles me how any so called 'normal person' can not see that this is a staged scene. i can not BELIEVE that there are people who still think this is legitimate. just looking at the photo makes me LOL and to think actually think that this is where and the conditions people believe that Murray gave CPR to MJ is hilarious.<br /><br /><br /><br />EDIT: another thing that i find hilarious, is that MJ supposedly had bruises on chest from excessive and aggressive CPR in an attempt to resuscitate him. imagine how hard they must have been going at it? yet none of these loose items fell off the bed? pffft! LOL LOL LOL<br /><br /><br />DOUBLE EDIT: instruction manual sitting *op top* of CPR apparatus. what, they tried to revive MJ and it didn't work? so before leaving the room placed the CPR thingie on the floor and placed the manual neatly on top before leaving the room for the hospital? paramedics even needing instruction manuals?? ROFL LOL LOL LOL
Additionally, I've thought it is possible for those to be MJs eyes, if the bottom lid is built up and part of the facial prosthetic, it would diminish the size and disguise the shape of the natural eye.<br />
<br /><br />Well said Bec, look at this Michael pic in disguise from Ghost video:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />We all know he is Michael for sure however if we hadn't known he was Michael we would say he is not him because his eyes look different, yes or not?<br />
<br /><br />when you put it like that, no. at first glance and if i didn't know better, no i wouldn't think this is MJ. but if i were looking at this for extended time and still not know it was Michael, i might say, "hey how weird, this old white guy seriously has the same eyes as MJ" and then being a huge MJ fan and knowing about his passion for disguise, i might make the connection.<br /><br />who knows. maybe not. but devils advocate
Oh boy....meanwhile I really dote on this thread.<br /><br />Still "nibbling at the shirt" :icon_lol:<br /><br />I know that Michael wore those V-neck style shirts quite a bit. <br /><br />However I think many people will possibly first think of the following 2 (famous and well-known) occasions on which he wore them:<br /><br />1. Bad tour-Man in the Mirror<br /><br /><br /><br />2. Ghosts <br /><br /><br /><br />Both are excellent hoax references, especially in the light of the particular discussion on this thread.<br /><br />Man in the mirror - remember Murray and the Man in the Mirror scene from the infamous documentary.<br /><br />Ghosts - the mayor --> disguise, mask<br /><br />So yeah...maybe that´s really the purpose of the shirt in the closet: to hint at CM=MJ or at least: pay close attention to CM!<br /><br />Very subtle clues though. <br />
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