<br /> I've been in watch and wait mode lately, which is what usually happens to me every few months. <br /><br />I miss TS. I try to apply his "lessons" to what's going on now but I keep feeling like I'm missing something or not understanding certain things properly. <br /><br />
<br /><br />Thank you Andrea for bringing this up, I wanted to discuss applying TS's lessons, but felt quite awkward to do so given the atmosphere here right now....and I don't even know whether I should open a new thread for this.<br /><br />So I was reading this TNZ blog post the other day which is basically about how the answers to this hoax had been planted 'way before' and if we concentrate enough on them, we'll get all our answers. <br />{ http://truenewszone.wordpress.com/2013/07/17/who-cares-reads-a-wonder/ }<br /><br />TNZ then posts some of the comments that were present under a TMZ article dated 2009. I want to quote two comments :<br /><br /><br />
DISAPPEARING ACT:<br />Fear of life – two angles.<br />DiLeo knows all.<br />TRUTH is right. Forget what you have read from the beginning.<br />The CONTRADICTIONS are the key.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />?:<br />Either one of you is right and one of you is wrong, or both of you are right and both of you are wrong.<br />It is either a truth, lie or necessity. Each story you read is either based on fact, a lie or a necessity. It will always be one of the 3. You must decide which one it is. The truth will always be found within the contradictions themselves. The contradictions are created for an intended purpose. You need to look past the hype and scandal of each story and see the truth behind them
<br /><br /><br />And so it struck me that the exercise TS made us do was to help us start with a base story and slowly add on all the information relating to it(whether it be a news article or some statement by a family member) and keep checking which one forms the "true" pattern. And because there are a lot of contradictions, we can know, with a little brainstorming, the truth.<br /><br />This is the key, password or code for knowing unknown things about the hoax.<br /><br /><br />[PS. I'm really not sure what is there for us to find out but this is my basic understanding of what we are supposed to do. Maybe we can discuss about any old issues which weren't clear at that time.]<br />
My take on this is that we have been given enough to make our own minds up and he's moved on to other people. The world thinks MJ is dead and I guess that's the way he wants it. He just wants his fans to have enough doubt to believe he's still around somewhere and that's enough for him. In reality, if he suddenly turned up out of the blue now, he would probably be lynched - IMHO.
<br />Bec, I wonder if it's just that our (as in the forum's) time has passed. We saw the inconsistencies, did the investigating and found out long ago that MJ is alive and that he was posting here. What more is there to do here? We've spoken before about the tendency to inflate this site's importance - I reckon he's had his fun/done his job here and has simply moved on. MJDHI will become an interesting archive of our investigations, not an active site - which is kind of how I get the feeling Souza has wanted it to be for quite some time. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, Souza)<br /><br />BUT, like I said earlier, the hoax isn't done yet - even if we are. And things could change in an instant ....... or not!<br /><br />EDIT: P.S. Aren't you normally asleep at this time? Having trouble sleeping? xxx zzz<br />
<br /><br />Nope, up ungodly early for horse show.<br /><br />I miss TS too. He made me think. It's boring now. Yes I am whining. Yes it is unbecoming. No I don't care very much. I hate when people come into your life with a flourish and then disappear with no explanation. I guess I have abandonment issues.<br /><br />Ps. @curls, cute that you noticed I was off routine! Thanks, I feel special.<br />
<br /><br />I feel the same.<br />Haha 'abandonment issues'...the hoax is where mine started and it gave me a few other side effects, which I'd take on just for this hoax.<br /><br />Yes front has moved onto a 'bigger platform' but what is it that he is exactly doing? He does post little vague visions here and there and other times he is, I don't know mentoring people, helping people, which is great. But how does this help get the hoax out there or attract more people to the hoax, most of the people he talks to are believers already. <br /><br />Yes we've established that MJ is alive, but how is that supposed to mean that our part/fun is over? We established that in the first year of the hoax, did we not? We have done other things besides then with TS and what not but now we've plateaued.<br /><br />Briefly what we have done in the hoax;<br /><br />MJ's death - looking into the hoax, did he fake his death? <br />TS interaction - establishing how and why MJ faked his death (although nothing concrete, like what was 'promised') and backing it up with things that could possible hold up in court (maybe)<br />CM trial - establishing the events of MJ's death/life. Whether the trial was real/fake, possible sting. Made for extremely good cable.<br />Miscellanous articles, videos, tweets etc (throughout this hoax)- hints/clues into the potential why's of the hoax, how's of the hoax...further establishing that there was indeed a hoax.<br />AEG Trial - possibly/most likely real trial for vindication...dragging out, like A LOT. Not televised, so hard to focus a lot on the trial itself (for me anyway, I like (prefer) moving pictures). Out of court circus (for our entertainment, well mine anyway) during this (still ongoing) trial.<br /><br />So through all these monumental events we have been tested and challenged emotionally (def. not physically as behind a computer usually requires sitting (well more so an obligation, but I mean who wants to stand)) and intellectually etc.<br /><br />I miss these days, the long TS posts, the sifting of information, the trolls (some) who tried to rattle the cage (don't judge, at least it tested us (somewhat) and provided some entertainment), TS's numerology (even though I suck at the numbers game)...and more.<br /><br />I'm not demanding anything and I don't want to be wanted and I'm neither begging, I just want to think and learn. Sudden change isn't always the best. And it certainly isn't in the case of an addict. If an addict decides to completely stop the next day, how would that work out? Isn't it a process? I just don't think we are made in a way where we can keep going in one direction or continue a habit for a long period of time and then have to break the habit and switch off like that. <br /><br />P.S: Sorry for the amount of (brackets) --- this one, which was not necessary.<br /><br />I hope it doesn't sound like I'm whining, but maybe I am...just feels like lag...sorry!<br />
<br /> I've been in watch and wait mode lately, which is what usually happens to me every few months. <br /><br />I miss TS. I try to apply his "lessons" to what's going on now but I keep feeling like I'm missing something or not understanding certain things properly. <br /><br />I don't think Front abandoned the forum but rather expanded his audience. And when has one forum been able to hang onto Michael indefinitely? I think it's a bit unfair to lump everyone who tweets him into the stalker fan/ass kisser category. Much of the hoax investigation has moved to twitter, I find it harder to keep up there but that's just me. Front made himself more available by going to twitter and those who wish to participate, do. And naturally there is going to be all sorts of personalities there. <br /><br />I still find myself quite intrigued with the little mysteries that seem to go on in the hoax world, things I notice but can't quite put my finger on or just choose not to say anything.<br /><br />The lack of stain-removal, the misconceptions and continuous lies about MJ, etc is what's most frustrating. I don't know how righting the wrongs will be achieved but my not knowing doesn't mean it won't happen. Changing perceptions is not easy but it's certainly not impossible.<br />
<br /><br />The righting the wrongs issue that IMO is the most important thing of the hoax won't be shown until after BAM happens it won't ever happen before it so I think we have to just wait and see how everything unfolds because maybe the BAM is just the beginning of the righting the wrongs and these will be righted during the coming years.
<br />Ya that's how I've always seen it too, sweet. Only so much (wrongs be righted) can be done before the BAM because not enough people will be paying attention. After the BAM though...well, he'll have everyone's undivided attention and people WILL want to hear what he has to say.
<br /> I've been in watch and wait mode lately, which is what usually happens to me every few months. <br /><br />I miss TS. I try to apply his "lessons" to what's going on now but I keep feeling like I'm missing something or not understanding certain things properly. <br /><br />
<br /><br />Thank you Andrea for bringing this up, I wanted to discuss applying TS's lessons, but felt quite awkward to do so given the atmosphere here right now....and I don't even know whether I should open a new thread for this.<br /><br />So I was reading this TNZ blog post the other day which is basically about how the answers to this hoax had been planted 'way before' and if we concentrate enough on them, we'll get all our answers. <br />{ http://truenewszone.wordpress.com/2013/07/17/who-cares-reads-a-wonder/ }<br /><br />TNZ then posts some of the comments that were present under a TMZ article dated 2009. I want to quote two comments :<br /><br /><br />
DISAPPEARING ACT:<br />Fear of life – two angles.<br />DiLeo knows all.<br />TRUTH is right. Forget what you have read from the beginning.<br />The CONTRADICTIONS are the key.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />?:<br />Either one of you is right and one of you is wrong, or both of you are right and both of you are wrong.<br />It is either a truth, lie or necessity. Each story you read is either based on fact, a lie or a necessity. It will always be one of the 3. You must decide which one it is. The truth will always be found within the contradictions themselves. The contradictions are created for an intended purpose. You need to look past the hype and scandal of each story and see the truth behind them
<br /><br /><br />And so it struck me that the exercise TS made us do was to help us start with a base story and slowly add on all the information relating to it(whether it be a news article or some statement by a family member) and keep checking which one forms the "true" pattern. And because there are a lot of contradictions, we can know, with a little brainstorming, the truth.<br /><br />This is the key, password or code for knowing unknown things about the hoax.<br /><br /><br />[PS. I'm really not sure what is there for us to find out but this is my basic understanding of what we are supposed to do. Maybe we can discuss about any old issues which weren't clear at that time.]<br />
<br /><br />I'm pretty sure TS and Front will come back after the BAM with all kind of explanations to fulfill their / his commitment, this artwork can't remain lame, we all believe in Michael and he can't let us down I wouldn't like to think I have thrown overboard these four years.
<br /> Ya that's how I've always seen it too, sweet. Only so much (wrongs be righted) can be done before the BAM because not enough people will be paying attention. After the BAM though...well, he'll have everyone's undivided attention and people WILL want to hear what he has to say.<br />
<br />LOL, I just know our paths occasionally cross first thing in my morning, but never at lunchtime! But yes, you ARE special bec! And I love how you speak your mind - when I saw the title of this thread my first thought was 'abandoned', but I didn't dare say it out loud cos it sounded too 'needy'! LOL! <br /><br />Re TS - there's unfinished business there, that's what's frustrating. If he'd wrapped up all the 7's and then disappeared, things would be different. Common sense says one's belief, trust and faith in a character one only knows via the internet should be limited. I think we forgot that.<br />
<br /><br />You're too cute.<br /><br />But I'm not speaking my mind. I'm biting my tongue for months. I'm super dooper disappointed TS/TS_comments seemingly jumped ship. I'm disappointed Front morphed into something else and migrated to Twitter. I miss other certain personalities that used to be here all the time. I also like to think n learn (agreed with UYI). The hoax used to be interactive, so I miss those days. We used to debate and fight and trade ideas. Some very smart people called this place home and it was really cool to come hang out with them every day in my home during my Me time. Now there's a void. It was fun and I regret it's over and I regret they're gone. I feel rejected somehow. I'm such a baby but that's how I feel.
Hi Bec: Did I ever tell you my family operated a "dude" ranch in the Berkshires of Massachusetts a very long thyme ago? I could saddle 10 horses in 25 minutes, learned to ride like a crazy fool complete with barrel racing, rodeo and learned how to play pool for money???? Ahh to be young an foolish again..... On that note, I know how you feel. I am feeling all kinds of "feelings" about the hoax. Some like you and some a bit different. I don't think things are over, just quiet. Although I didn't contribute like you, I still depended on the hoax everyday and enjoyed the friendships, stories and debates. I never put 100% of my heart into TS or Front.....Just because I wanted to protect my feelings....but looked forward to them in everyway. I remember when we first started hearing from TS, I would get up in the morning and race to the computer....even before I made my coffee to see if there was a redirect. I even remember when you first joined, I thought wow, this woman is wicked smart! Those were the days....Can't go back, must go forward, that's what I keep telling myself. I am sure there will be something lurking around the corner in some shape or form. What, I don't know, but I don't think this is over yet. But what a ride this has all been! Lots of love to you Bec and everyone else out there in hoax land :bearhug:
@ uyi adore ur sign off lol Hilari!<br /><br /><br />@ all - re this thread subject. I'm still loving this place. Haven't been here 4 yrs only two. But it's been a ride. Have loved reading and interacting with you all. Huge respect for all mods and Souza!!<br /><br />Lots of lil hoax communities out there, but here is the place I call my hoax home!!!<br /><br />Thank you all for your brilliant minds and huge hearts!
Seriously though, another answer to the subject, of how do you feel four years later. <br /><br />Have to say I am a bit overwhelmed by the hoax world at times. Information overload. Not talking abt the facts and investigation, more the politics and bull crap that comes along with hoax community. The hate, etc. I think I'm going to scale down my interactions on twitter. Had good intentions of having a twitter account 2 yrs ago, but it's such a life sucker. Real drainer!! And yes, I create/welcome some of it. Should never have got involved with TWTr to the extent I am. So I'm working out what I want and what I don't want. Def want to stay part of the forum, love it here. The content is quality rather than what is offered on twitter. But prob going to get off twitter and delete account in the next few days so I can choose to spend my hoaxing time here reading quality rather than readung and contributing to the dribble Twitterland. And going to unsubscribe to the dozens of hoax blogs and my countless YT hoax vid subscriptions. Just making this place my source, otherwise I just can't keep up and it's overwhelming. And I figure if anything is really really important, it will find its way to the forum and ill see it.<br /><br />So yeah, I'm just simplifying to create balance. I guess 2 yrs on that's something I that I struggle with, so looking at changing that.<br /><br />Huge respect for everyone here by the way!!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Edit MJDHI will be my one stop shop for hoaxing
<br />..... Only so much (wrongs be righted) can be done before the BAM because not enough people will be paying attention. After the BAM though...well, he'll have everyone's undivided attention and people WILL want to hear what he has to say.<br />
<br /><br />Totally agree Andrea, that's the most sense I've read in ages! So ..... what's he waiting for??!! :abouttime: Bring it on!
<br />..... Only so much (wrongs be righted) can be done before the BAM because not enough people will be paying attention. After the BAM though...well, he'll have everyone's undivided attention and people WILL want to hear what he has to say.<br />
<br /><br />Totally agree Andrea, that's the most sense I've read in ages! So ..... what's he waiting for??!! :abouttime: Bring it on!<br />
<br /><br />Curls I was waiting for you to agree with what Andrea and I agree :beerchug:
<br />..... Only so much (wrongs be righted) can be done before the BAM because not enough people will be paying attention. After the BAM though...well, he'll have everyone's undivided attention and people WILL want to hear what he has to say.<br />
<br /><br />Totally agree Andrea, that's the most sense I've read in ages! So ..... what's he waiting for??!! :abouttime: Bring it on!<br />
<br /><br />Curls I was waiting for you to agree with what Andrea and I agree :beerchug:<br />
<br />if he suddenly turned up out of the blue now, he would probably be lynched - IMHO.<br />
<br /><br />I don't completely agree though with Andrea, Sweetsunset and Curls. <br /><br />Before Michael comes back there has to be atleast one reason with the public which they think is the real reason for him to fake his death. And when Michael comes back, they'll know there's more to the story. And this can be done with anything BOMBastic. He can do this by releasing a movie, which definitely won't be titled 'Michael Jackson etc etc' but some different movie title and mainstream hollywood actors. So people enter the movie theater expecting to watch one thing and they'll end up watching something else.<br /> <br />Michael just cannot come back any day, if he does so he'll become all negative. I believe that if Michael comes back all of a sudden, the non-fans will be in shock and the 'bloggers' and other such 'opinionated' people will start bashing Michael and such blogs and comments will brainwash people into believing that his faking death and then coming back is 'cheating', on his fans and that Michael is not only a weirdo but a first class lair. <br /><br />There has to be one step in between which will prepare everyone for his comeback.<br /><br />This is of-course my way of seeing the situation.<br /><br />[PS. If MJ had to right the wrongs after his BAM he could also do that without faking his death, why so much of planning, execution, and hardwork?]
I dunno. If it's wrapped up in an entertainment production of some variety (movie, magic show, stage play), that leads the viewer into realizing that everything that occurred prior (with the 'death') was the preface to said entertainment production, I think it will work just fine. People will get it in hindsight, total recall n all that. Movies do it all the time--with the story only making sense finally at the end.<br /><br />Something like the cirque de solei show would work, because that show is darn near is the prelude to Bamsday already.<br /><br />Non fans aren't going to be angry at MJ for faking his death because they aren't emotionally involved in the death. I think the fans will be the angriest, but they are the ones he has to worry the least about. They will huff n puff n carry on for a time, and then in the end they will be glad he's not dead. Right after they feel stupid for believing their beloved MJ was a weirdo drug addict that died like that.<br /><br />Non fans will be most likely to think the whole thing is pretty awesome and daring. It will instantly change their perception of MJ.<br /><br />Haters will always hate. You roll right over that and move on. A facet of non fans will become fans by being charmed and mystified by him not being dead. The rest of them will be surprised, laugh about it, and then move on. Fans will be angry, for a time, and then go back to adoring him, which they already do. Hoaxers will be relieved. <br /><br />I mean really, if you don't care about MJ, you aren't going to care if he's dead or suddenly actually alive. If you hate MJ, you can't hate him more if it turns out that he is alive. If you love MJ, him being actually alive isn't going to make you hate him, even if you're a little angry that you were 'duped'. So really, again, MJ has nothing to lose.
Ps. Non-fans will be angry at the Bam only if they have something to be angry about--ie. MJ used public funds to perform his hoax. Which, I think we have resoundingly debunked. If it turns out MJ has funded the entire thing start to finish and secured all the proper permissions and authorities prior, which I think we have also proved is entirely plausible, no one has anything to be angry about.
Michael ows us nothing. We were free to accept his death and be fine with our lives going on, sending cards to FL once a year ...<br />So whatever he does, being now or in 10 years or never, is only up to him, and we have nothing to expect as "a reward for 4 years waiting" (although i have few "rewarding" ideas back of my mind)
@Bec, Non fans were never emotionally involved that is true, but it never stopped them from mocking at him. Let's take media's example, Media is never supposed to be emotionally involved with anything but simply state facts or news as we call it, but that rarely happened in MJ's case, I mean look at Nancy Grace and what she did during 2005 trial...she was mixing her personal perception of MJ while it was supposed to be only facts and proceedings. <br /><br />Media calls him 'Bizarre', that's how they see him. If people were impartial towards him, they should've believed he has vitiligo, he never molested children, he was a happy BLACK MAN. But still to this day some dumbasses come to me and ask these horrible questions about him!<br /><br />It would've been really awesome if people didn't bother and interfere into things which wasn't their priority but interference is the whole issue...it's one of the central issues of the death hoax. If people (non fans) never really bothered to mess up with his life, Michael would never have had the need to fake his death.<br /><br />And if Michael doesn't have a mind-blowing way of letting the truth out and make people go, 'what the f-ck was I believing the whole time', then we can pretty much expect people to become judgmental as never before. <br /><br />I've been stressing on public judgment for so long because I've always perceived this death hoax to be a means of vindication and clearing his name. It'll be a process of rejuvenation for Michael, an eye-opener for people and an entertainment for fans...and other 'revelation' but I don't know about that.
I always have in the back of my mind the DVD Easter Egg idea that TS presented way, way back. Everyone's TII DVD's sat on their shelves all this time with some magical bammy goodie hidden within. That would be about as awesome as you can get IMO!
<br />@Bec, Non fans were never emotionally involved that is true, but it never stopped them from mocking at him. Let's take media's example, Media is never supposed to be emotionally involved with anything but simply state facts or news as we call it, but that rarely happened in MJ's case, I mean look at Nancy Grace and what she did during 2005 trial...she was mixing her personal perception of MJ while it was supposed to be only facts and proceedings. <br /><br />Media calls him 'Bizarre', that's how they see him. If people were impartial towards him, they should've believed he has vitiligo, he never molested children, he was a happy BLACK MAN. But still to this day some dumbasses come to me and ask these horrible questions about him!<br />
<br /><br />Those are haters rather then non-fans. Haters will always hate, there's nothing to lose there. The media is being taught a lesson. "It'll blow up in their needle-nosed faced".
Practically talking, they are supposed to be just 'non-fans'....so when non-fans start talking rubbish, we call them haters. That is how our minds, as fans work. When we see any person being negative about MJ, we call them haters or we despise them. If we are talking to a person who just holds a neutral attitude towards MJ the conversation would mostly be 'informational' rather than a war.<br /><br />And about the media being punked. If the hoax continues in the same note as present, the media will never be punked, even after Michael's comeback. If people were to be shocked with the present state of things and how media changes information for money or other sinister reasons and realize not everything in print is gospel then the established facts should be proven wrong. There's a reason why Michael said the history books are wrong. When they come out of their illusions and know the reason for MJ faking his death, MJ would've paved way for comeback, where he'll have the opportunity to be 'heard' without any judgment but complete curiosity.
Well agreed @Thriller, at present, but hope indicates this is a work in progress.<br /><br />I'm not sure non-fans will care about the reasons, and haters will just twist n distort those reasons.
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