<br /><br />I'm not sure non-fans will care about the reasons, and haters will just twist n distort those reasons.<br />
<br /><br />True. Like I mentioned in another thread, when this hoax started, I believed it was done to vindicate Michael, to 'right the wrongs'. But if that was the reason for the hoax, then the 'Bam' could have materialized three years ago, when the world was still in shock over his death and the media finally wrote mostly positive about him. Now, in my opinion, that moment has passed, and we are back at square one. Too much time has passed and negative reporting is again common. I simply cannot believe that everything happening right now, is fake or part of the hoax, directed by Michael. Like I said in the other thread, I, personally, simply can't believe that Michael would put his mother and his children through this agony (like the trial). <br /><br />In other words, if he doesn't have a VERY LEGITIMATE reason for this four year 'adventure', non-fans will not care and find him even more crazy, and haters will hate even more. And think about it, is it necessary to hoax your death if you have the biggest platform in the world AND the money to reveal whatever you wish to reveal. I don't care anymore if I was spoonfed the reasons, then to go through four years of hope and fear, and now starting to think that we are being duped by I don't know who. <br />Sorry for being so negative :-\
<br /> I think when Michael BAMs it will be a huge wake-up call on many levels, and not just about Michael.<br />
<br /><br />That's what I meant, if it were only for Michael, Bam should have happened MUCH earlier. Now he must have legitimate, major, worldwide other important reasons to reveal, because otherwise, this hoax makes no sense to me.
<br />I figured that was what you meant, Do. Ever since the TDCAU TII clip was released shortly after MJ "died", I've felt that the reasons and results for MJ's hoax go far beyond Michael himself. The 1:35 TDCAU TII clip was the only rehearsal footage available until the movie came out which was always very telling to me because there is a definite message there. So I do see what you're saying about the length of this hoax - the longer the return, the greater the significance for the reasons behind the hoax.
<br /> I think when Michael BAMs it will be a huge wake-up call on many levels, and not just about Michael.<br />
<br /><br />That's what I meant, if it were only for Michael, Bam should have happened MUCH earlier. Now he must have legitimate, major, worldwide other important reasons to reveal, because otherwise, this hoax makes no sense to me.<br />
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on 1376399599:
<br /> I figured that was what you meant, Do. Ever since the TDCAU TII clip was released shortly after MJ "died", I've felt that the reasons and results for MJ's hoax go far beyond Michael himself. The 1:35 TDCAU TII clip was the only rehearsal footage available until the movie came out which was always very telling to me because there is a definite message there. So I do see what you're saying about the length of this hoax - the longer the return, the greater the significance for the reasons behind the hoax.<br />
<br /><br />yeah...this is what I was talking about too...some eye-opener has to be there. Don't know how this will end up, we can only keep watching, after all.
<br /> I figured that was what you meant, Do. Ever since the TDCAU TII clip was released shortly after MJ "died", I've felt that the reasons and results for MJ's hoax go far beyond Michael himself. The 1:35 TDCAU TII clip was the only rehearsal footage available until the movie came out which was always very telling to me because there is a definite message there. So I do see what you're saying about the length of this hoax - the longer the return, the greater the significance for the reasons behind the hoax.<br />
<br /><br />Thanks Andrea for your nice response! However, I must admit that I'm starting to have doubts about the whole hoax...Yes ofcourse I know about all the clues and contradictions and that there are lots and lots of things that point to a hoax. I absolutely don't deny that, nor do I deny all the hours and hard work many members have put in this investigation. I've been there too, being all ecstatic and telling friends about it (who thought I was crazy). But when it was at first mainly the family that convinced me through their behaviour and statements he was still alive, now it is mainly the family who make me doubt about that.<br /><br />If Michael is hoaxing his death, sure the family must say in interviews and on twitter that indeed, he is dead. But why writing books about his death (at least by Jermaine, Katherine and La Toya) and make a profit of a lie about the 'death' of their son/brother, which I really feel is morally incorrect. Why the latest trial, why the Paris suicide attempt, just why?? They should have stayed in the shadows, keeping low profile. I have real problems with this, it is, IMO, too serious to consider this as 'clues', fake trials etc. If the trial is fake and just for the hoax, what sense does it make? If the trial is real, then the family is after money instead of justice for their son, brother, father. See, when I really think about it, then many clues do have a 'con'. We explained them as clues, but it turned out to be nothing. And if they aren't clues, is it real then? I don't think Paris would attempt suicide (confirmed by the family, so no BS story), if she was safe and cosy with her dad....what kind of clue would it be otherwise, to bring attention to suicide attempts by kids? I personally don't buy that story, there are other ways to bring this problem to people's attention. So, if it was real, then why did she do it? <br /><br />Andrea, I don't get it straight out what I'm feeling right now, but it's just not adding up to me anymore. I can't keep track of the story line anymore...<br />I know how strong of a believer you are, so was I, and I don't want to bore you with this, I only hope I'm wrong and this is gonna end soon, but I'm afraid this hoax will have an open 'ending'....we end up like the Elvis-hoaxers... :smiley-vault-misc-150:
<br /> I figured that was what you meant, Do. Ever since the TDCAU TII clip was released shortly after MJ "died", I've felt that the reasons and results for MJ's hoax go far beyond Michael himself. The 1:35 TDCAU TII clip was the only rehearsal footage available until the movie came out which was always very telling to me because there is a definite message there. So I do see what you're saying about the length of this hoax - the longer the return, the greater the significance for the reasons behind the hoax.<br />
<br /><br />Thanks Andrea for your nice response! However, I must admit that I'm starting to have doubts about the whole hoax...Yes ofcourse I know about all the clues and contradictions and that there are lots and lots of things that point to a hoax. I absolutely don't deny that, nor do I deny all the hours and hard work many members have put in this investigation. I've been there too, being all ecstatic and telling friends about it (who thought I was crazy). But when it was at first mainly the family that convinced me through their behaviour and statements he was still alive, now it is mainly the family who make me doubt about that.<br /><br />If Michael is hoaxing his death, sure the family must say in interviews and on twitter that indeed, he is dead. But why writing books about his death (at least by Jermaine, Katherine and La Toya) and make a profit of a lie about the 'death' of their son/brother, which I really feel is morally incorrect. Why the latest trial, why the Paris suicide attempt, just why?? They should have stayed in the shadows, keeping low profile. I have real problems with this, it is, IMO, too serious to consider this as 'clues', fake trials etc. If the trial is fake and just for the hoax, what sense does it make? If the trial is real, then the family is after money instead of justice for their son, brother, father. See, when I really think about it, then many clues do have a 'con'. We explained them as clues, but it turned out to be nothing. And if they aren't clues, is it real then? I don't think Paris would attempt suicide (confirmed by the family, so no BS story), if she was safe and cosy with her dad....what kind of clue would it be otherwise, to bring attention to suicide attempts by kids? I personally don't buy that story, there are other ways to bring this problem to people's attention. So, if it was real, then why did she do it? <br /><br />Andrea, I don't get it straight out what I'm feeling right now, but it's just not adding up to me anymore. I can't keep track of the story line anymore...<br />I know how strong of a believer you are, so was I, and I don't want to bore you with this, I only hope I'm wrong and this is gonna end soon, but I'm afraid this hoax will have an open 'ending'....we end up like the Elvis-hoaxers... :smiley-vault-misc-150:<br />
<br /> I figured that was what you meant, Do. Ever since the TDCAU TII clip was released shortly after MJ "died", I've felt that the reasons and results for MJ's hoax go far beyond Michael himself. The 1:35 TDCAU TII clip was the only rehearsal footage available until the movie came out which was always very telling to me because there is a definite message there. So I do see what you're saying about the length of this hoax - the longer the return, the greater the significance for the reasons behind the hoax.<br />
<br /><br />Thanks Andrea for your nice response! However, I must admit that I'm starting to have doubts about the whole hoax...Yes ofcourse I know about all the clues and contradictions and that there are lots and lots of things that point to a hoax. I absolutely don't deny that, nor do I deny all the hours and hard work many members have put in this investigation. I've been there too, being all ecstatic and telling friends about it (who thought I was crazy). But when it was at first mainly the family that convinced me through their behaviour and statements he was still alive, now it is mainly the family who make me doubt about that.<br /><br />If Michael is hoaxing his death, sure the family must say in interviews and on twitter that indeed, he is dead. But why writing books about his death (at least by Jermaine, Katherine and La Toya) and make a profit of a lie about the 'death' of their son/brother, which I really feel is morally incorrect. Why the latest trial, why the Paris suicide attempt, just why?? They should have stayed in the shadows, keeping low profile. I have real problems with this, it is, IMO, too serious to consider this as 'clues', fake trials etc. If the trial is fake and just for the hoax, what sense does it make? If the trial is real, then the family is after money instead of justice for their son, brother, father. See, when I really think about it, then many clues do have a 'con'. We explained them as clues, but it turned out to be nothing. And if they aren't clues, is it real then? I don't think Paris would attempt suicide (confirmed by the family, so no BS story), if she was safe and cosy with her dad....what kind of clue would it be otherwise, to bring attention to suicide attempts by kids? I personally don't buy that story, there are other ways to bring this problem to people's attention. So, if it was real, then why did she do it? <br /><br />Andrea, I don't get it straight out what I'm feeling right now, but it's just not adding up to me óanymore. I can't keep track of the story line anymore...<br />I know how strong of a believer you are, so was I, and I don't want to bore you with this, I only hope I'm wrong and this is gonna end soon, but I'm afraid this hoax will have an open 'ending'....we end up like the Elvis-hoaxers... :smiley-vault-misc-150:<br />
<br /><br />Paula, I'm not sure if I understand correctly why you posted these links. Is this being discussed as a possible reason for Paris' suicide attempt? I must have missed that discussion.<br /><br />But if this might be the reason, I'm even more convinced that Michael is not around anymore, because I have serious doubts that his reasons for a hoax are more important for him than the well-being and happiness of his daughter. He would be there for her, hoax or not, heck, I'm sure that all of this would never have happened, Paris acting out on twitter (or so I read) and being in the news in such a tragic matter.<br /><br />I quote this phrase from the radaronline article: "This is the last thing Michael would have wanted Paris to do, especially to keep her away from people like Sam Lutfi". <br /><br />I think that speaks volumes.<br /><br />But maybe you quoted the links for other reasons?
<br /> I think when Michael BAMs it will be a huge wake-up call on many levels, and not just about Michael.<br />
<br /><br />That's what I meant, if it were only for Michael, Bam should have happened MUCH earlier. Now he must have legitimate, major, worldwide other important reasons to reveal, because otherwise, this hoax makes no sense to me.<br />
<br /><br />@Do we all agreed long time ago that this hoax is made to expose devilish behaviours ragarding Michael and many other issues that we all called "The wake up call" . I don't know but I still believe in Michael and that he will be able to clear his name, when I said that BAM will be the beginning of the wrongs to be righted I meant that he has probably been working on it during these 4 years but after BAM is when he will show us what he did to get them righted.
<br /> I figured that was what you meant, Do. Ever since the TDCAU TII clip was released shortly after MJ "died", I've felt that the reasons and results for MJ's hoax go far beyond Michael himself. The 1:35 TDCAU TII clip was the only rehearsal footage available until the movie came out which was always very telling to me because there is a definite message there. So I do see what you're saying about the length of this hoax - the longer the return, the greater the significance for the reasons behind the hoax.<br />
<br /><br />Thanks Andrea for your nice response! However, I must admit that I'm starting to have doubts about the whole hoax...Yes ofcourse I know about all the clues and contradictions and that there are lots and lots of things that point to a hoax. I absolutely don't deny that, nor do I deny all the hours and hard work many members have put in this investigation. I've been there too, being all ecstatic and telling friends about it (who thought I was crazy). But when it was at first mainly the family that convinced me through their behaviour and statements he was still alive, now it is mainly the family who make me doubt about that.<br /><br />If Michael is hoaxing his death, sure the family must say in interviews and on twitter that indeed, he is dead. But why writing books about his death (at least by Jermaine, Katherine and La Toya) and make a profit of a lie about the 'death' of their son/brother, which I really feel is morally incorrect. Why the latest trial, why the Paris suicide attempt, just why?? They should have stayed in the shadows, keeping low profile. I have real problems with this, it is, IMO, too serious to consider this as 'clues', fake trials etc. If the trial is fake and just for the hoax, what sense does it make? If the trial is real, then the family is after money instead of justice for their son, brother, father. See, when I really think about it, then many clues do have a 'con'. We explained them as clues, but it turned out to be nothing. And if they aren't clues, is it real then? I don't think Paris would attempt suicide (confirmed by the family, so no BS story), if she was safe and cosy with her dad....what kind of clue would it be otherwise, to bring attention to suicide attempts by kids? I personally don't buy that story, there are other ways to bring this problem to people's attention. So, if it was real, then why did she do it? <br /><br />Andrea, I don't get it straight out what I'm feeling right now, but it's just not adding up to me óanymore. I can't keep track of the story line anymore...<br />I know how strong of a believer you are, so was I, and I don't want to bore you with this, I only hope I'm wrong and this is gonna end soon, but I'm afraid this hoax will have an open 'ending'....we end up like the Elvis-hoaxers... :smiley-vault-misc-150:<br />
<br /><br />Paula, I'm not sure if I understand correctly why you posted these links. Is this being discussed as a possible reason for Paris' suicide attempt? I must have missed that discussion.<br /><br />But if this might be the reason, I'm even more convinced that Michael is not around anymore, because I have serious doubts that his reasons for a hoax are more important for him than the well-being and happiness of his daughter. He would be there for her, hoax or not, heck, I'm sure that all of this would never have happened, Paris acting out on twitter (or so I read) and being in the news in such a tragic matter.<br /><br />I quote this phrase from the radaronline article: "This is the last thing Michael would have wanted Paris to do, especially to keep her away from people like Sam Lutfi". <br /><br />I think that speaks volumes.<br /><br />But maybe you quoted the links for other reasons?<br />
<br /><br />@Do...I beg you please to read the thread about Paris' suicide bid and after it come and tell us, if you didn't investigate about it don' be so sure of your thinking about it I think you have missed something there.<br />@All...Michael needs our positivism and support right now more than ever we can't have negative thoughts regarding the hoax, let's wait at least until the end of October and if nothing happens then we can close the kiosk and go home, it will be very sad for me but at the same time it will be a big lesson in order not to believe in anything/anyone anymore.
<br /> I figured that was what you meant, Do. Ever since the TDCAU TII clip was released shortly after MJ "died", I've felt that the reasons and results for MJ's hoax go far beyond Michael himself. The 1:35 TDCAU TII clip was the only rehearsal footage available until the movie came out which was always very telling to me because there is a definite message there. So I do see what you're saying about the length of this hoax - the longer the return, the greater the significance for the reasons behind the hoax.<br />
<br /><br />Thanks Andrea for your nice response! However, I must admit that I'm starting to have doubts about the whole hoax...Yes ofcourse I know about all the clues and contradictions and that there are lots and lots of things that point to a hoax. I absolutely don't deny that, nor do I deny all the hours and hard work many members have put in this investigation. I've been there too, being all ecstatic and telling friends about it (who thought I was crazy). But when it was at first mainly the family that convinced me through their behaviour and statements he was still alive, now it is mainly the family who make me doubt about that.<br /><br />If Michael is hoaxing his death, sure the family must say in interviews and on twitter that indeed, he is dead. But why writing books about his death (at least by Jermaine, Katherine and La Toya) and make a profit of a lie about the 'death' of their son/brother, which I really feel is morally incorrect. Why the latest trial, why the Paris suicide attempt, just why?? They should have stayed in the shadows, keeping low profile. I have real problems with this, it is, IMO, too serious to consider this as 'clues', fake trials etc. If the trial is fake and just for the hoax, what sense does it make? If the trial is real, then the family is after money instead of justice for their son, brother, father. See, when I really think about it, then many clues do have a 'con'. We explained them as clues, but it turned out to be nothing. And if they aren't clues, is it real then? I don't think Paris would attempt suicide (confirmed by the family, so no BS story), if she was safe and cosy with her dad....what kind of clue would it be otherwise, to bring attention to suicide attempts by kids? I personally don't buy that story, there are other ways to bring this problem to people's attention. So, if it was real, then why did she do it? <br /><br />Andrea, I don't get it straight out what I'm feeling right now, but it's just not adding up to me anymore. I can't keep track of the story line anymore...<br />I know how strong of a believer you are, so was I, and I don't want to bore you with this, I only hope I'm wrong and this is gonna end soon, but I'm afraid this hoax will have an open 'ending'....we end up like the Elvis-hoaxers... :smiley-vault-misc-150:<br />
<br /><br /><br />You're not boring me Do, don't ever worry about that. <br /><br />There are things haven't made a whole lot of sense to me about this hoax, including Paris' suicide attempt story. I would prefer to think it wasn't real but I won't dismiss it as such because we really don't know. But I do lean towards it not being real, to be completely honest. The family confirmed the story, yes, but same with Michael's "death". The "why" of it won't be determined until later, if it was part of the hoax. <br /><br />About family members writing (and profiting) from books...this hoax has been available in every form of communication medium. There have been countless books written about Michael that are full of lies so having some truth from Jermaine and LaToya is refreshing - they actually know and love and grew up with Michael. They had to "lie" about his "death" because Michael can't BAM on page 123 of a book, they had to stick to the official story. But I didn't really even have to read between the lines to figure out what was really being said and of course the contradictions just kept mounting. And about making money, we don't know what Jermaine and LaToya did with their profits and a person doesn't need to buy the book in order to read it.<br /><br />I don't want to end up like the Elvis hoaxers either :errrr: but I don't think we will...bec mentioned "Time Doubts" earlier and I think those doubts do creep in for most of us every now and then. I would think it's normal to become disenchanted from time to time. The hoax is so complex and convoluted when you really think of the last 4+ years. I still talk about it to my friends who ask but there would be no way I could do it justice. I don't doubt the existence of the hoax or that Michael is alive because I would have to ignore these past years and I don't think we collectively imagined it and convinced ourselves of it. I was thrown off when 2012 ended in a "fail" but there must've been a lesson in there and I got through it, as many of us did. I still wonder when IT will happen although I don't like to focus on a particular date or time frame anymore because of past disappointments. But I am excited for it and want to know how it will feel when it finally happens. I know the wait will be worth it.
I don't know if Michael is reading here but what Front has just tweeted 30 mts ago perfectly fits with our discussion here: ILLUSIONAL GAMBITS SACRIFICE SHORT-TERM LOSSES FOR LONG-TERM GAINS.
<br />I don't know if Michael is reading here but what Front has just tweeted 30 mts ago perfectly fits with our discussion here: ILLUSIONAL GAMBITS SACRIFICE SHORT-TERM LOSSES FOR LONG-TERM GAINS.<br />
<br /><br />Which also ties in perfectly with how I've been feeling lately....a gambit is a chess term.....I feel like we have all been on a huge chess board since June 25th, 09. Illusional gambits (hoax insiders/main players) could sacrifice themselves or help end the beliefs of some hoaxers...which is a short term loss.....in order to keep the hoax going into newer and stronger levels. Levels that are only designed for the strongest hearts and minds. <br />A huge cat and mouse chess board...moving in the general direction our hearts feel is right for the moment. How many times have we switched directions, questioned our belief and questioned motives? Too many.....but I think that's all a part of things. We need to make those classic chess moves in order to further our adventure and strengthen our beliefs. <br />OK...done : ) <br />Hope you all are doing well....still love this place too......just something about it : ) <br />Love and Hugs....<br />Blessings Always
Why write illusional .... illusion-al? Just curious.... <br />Of course we are not illusional....I referred to the hoax-insiders/main players as the gambits in all this....the illusion movers and shakers, so to speak. <br /><br />"Most times we are the only part of this whole thing that is real." --- very true, bec......<br /><br />Have a great day/evening...<br />Blessings <br /><br />
<br />Why write illusional .... illusion-al? Just curious.... <br />Of course we are not illusional....I referred to the hoax-insiders/main players as the gambits in all this....the illusion movers and shakers, so to speak. <br /><br />"Most times we are the only part of this whole thing that is real." --- very true, bec......<br /><br />Have a great day/evening...<br />Blessings<br />
<br /><br />Illusional? We have understood all four years ago. ;D
Just to be clear, lol.......I got the word "illusional" from sweetset's quote of Front a few days ago here on this thread:<br /><br />Quote from: sweetsunsetwithMJ on Yesterday at 02:50:25 AMI don't know if Michael is reading here but what Front has just tweeted 30 mts ago perfectly fits with our discussion here: ILLUSIONAL GAMBITS SACRIFICE SHORT-TERM LOSSES FOR LONG-TERM GAINS.<br /><br /><br />Indeed....we have been understanding things far better than the general public, lol......you are so right Blankie! : ) <br />It reminds me of LaToya's quote about watching The Illusionist......such a great movie! <br /><br /><br />
<br />Just to be clear, lol.......I got the word "illusional" from sweetset's quote of Front a few days ago here on this thread:<br /><br />Quote from: sweetsunsetwithMJ on Yesterday at 02:50:25 AMI don't know if Michael is reading here but what Front has just tweeted 30 mts ago perfectly fits with our discussion here: ILLUSIONAL GAMBITS SACRIFICE SHORT-TERM LOSSES FOR LONG-TERM GAINS.<br /><br /><br />Indeed....we have been understanding things far better than the general public, lol......you are so right Blankie! : ) <br />It reminds me of LaToya's quote about watching The Illusionist......such a great movie! <br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />You are right on that Wishing but what I really understood from that quote is that Michael wanted to reply to those who were saying the hoax is being too long and if Michael were to BAM he might have made it one year after died when the world was still shocked by his sudden death. Do you all remember the so famous phrase of Michael in TII when he said to his musicians: " You have to LET IT SIMMERLET IT SIMMER LET IT SIMMER" so be it.
<br />Why write illusional .... illusion-al? Just curious.... <br />Of course we are not illusional....I referred to the hoax-insiders/main players as the gambits in all this....the illusion movers and shakers, so to speak. <br /><br />"Most times we are the only part of this whole thing that is real." --- very true, bec......<br /><br />Have a great day/evening...<br />Blessings<br /><br />Amen :bearhug:<br />
Re: Four years later, how do you feel?<br /><br /><br />Stupid. I let horrible denial that Michael can't die go. Never had 100% belief in hoax. Now almost nothing left despite that certain things that happened still cannot be explained or make sense. But then I think, life does not make sense either why should events always make sense.<br />But hope dies last therefore I will never give up hoping that I am wrong.
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