<br /> Can it be that the 77. court day is at the 29. August ? Michaels 55 th birthday ? :icon_e_smile:<br />
<br /><br />Yes, that would have been the perfect date, wouldn't it? Another date is gone, and we're still here alone. Blah, blah, blah. :over-react-smiley:
Why the lack of security in your convictions? Michael has undoubtedly escaped from the mortifying scowls of the media with their slanderous malevolence. He has just resorted to alternative means to resolve the fallacies that have occurred during his life in the spotlight. Michael has been alive since june 2009, and unless he recently departed since that period, an overwhelming feeling I have inside has allowed me to arrive at the conclusion that any sort of evidence claiming that the man has passed away is merely smoke arising from incalculable speculation. So why the skepticism associated with his (demise) when we all clearly are aware that he is still here waiting to materialize when all who have doubted say otherwise? I have never understood why there is constant questioning about the practicality of this hoax! it just doesn't logically seem to formulate. Just because no celebrity has publicly declared that they have faked their death doesnt mean it is an impossibility or has never occurred. People are so behind the belief that 9/11 was deliberately schemed by the american government for an excuse to head to war, but just because the president said otherwise, doesn't mean it's fact. come on guys, you have to stimulate your intellect! You think michael wants to be found out immediately or wants us to know his exact whereabouts at the moment? <br /><br /><br />How about we try to establish if he is even dead? Don't ask if he is truly alive, prove to me that he is dead. that is what we need to substantiate. If you can't prove it? well then, he is not dead.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br /><br />How about we try to establish if he is even dead? Don't ask if he is truly alive, prove to me that he is dead. that is what we need to substantiate. If you can't prove it? well then, he is not dead.<br />
<br /><br /><br />I understand you. it's known to everyone that there are more clues pointing to Michael being alive. But it's I guess it's the insecurity that makes people talk of Michael being dead.<br /><br />Patience is the key...
Why is it that people can’t just accept the fact that Michael’s life was in danger? He said many many times that he feared for his life. There was an entire FBI investigation done on persons that had threatened his life. It is because he didn’t say exactly who he feared? It is because it’s not the Glamorous answer that would lead to a BAM Day? Is it because that is not entertaining enough and it leads to finality. <br /><br />Because if anyone really believes Michael’s life was in danger, and he had to stage his death with the help of very few very intelligent people that the public knew nothing of, then you have to know that he is not going to return only to be a target. I completely DO NOT get it as to why people would say “Oh Michael would never do that to his fans” Why does everyone make it out to be about them…”the Fans”…it’s NOT about any of us. It is about a Human Being’s Life.<br /><br />A man that was deeply hated by a very sinister elite group that wanted to shut his message up, and who wanted his energy off of this earth. Why do a lot of people KNOW that Michael is still alive without “In your face” evidence. Because we feel his energy and his spirit, period. But for Michael to spend years creating some Hoax and then to return years later, would be a Death sentence for him. Not to mention great Deception, which Michael is not about for any reason.<br /><br />There would be no vindication because people already believe what they want to believe in spite of the truth. Evil breeds evil. Look at the people around the world that deny the existence of Jehovah, or what ever name you chose to give to the Creator, our Heavenly Father and his Son Jesus Christ. Michael studied the life of that man and lived his accordingly, but yet even people that say they Love Michael, deny Christ because his teachings don’t fit their lifestyle.<br /><br />So 4 years later I see happening just what was designed to happen with “Fans” confusion and chaos and bickering and back bitting. No Love and peace and Harmony. Does anyone think Michael would have Designed this Plan? No!
@RedRope I would advice you to kindly check out the previous "evidences" that lead many to believe Michael is alive. We are not just saying he's alive only because we feel his energy. That is false. <br /><br />The forum is open for information.
@Thriller4ever….I don’t think you are understanding my point here. I don’t need to read evidence because I do feel Michael’s energy and presence on this earth and there are many around the world that do. There are many people that read this forum that don’t post their thoughts and feeling and there are many other places where Michael’s disappearance is discussed . Maybe that is the reason so many are losing faith that he is alive because the evidence has not produced a BAM, and that is what so many are looking for. <br /><br /><br />One has to step out of the proverbial “Hoax” box and look at the reality of what Michael wrote and spoke about and in understanding the deeper meaning of his words, you can feel his energy is alive, and evidence is not needed.
<br />@Thriller4ever….I don’t think you are understanding my point here. I don’t need to read evidence because I do feel Michael’s energy and presence on this earth and there are many around the world that do. There are many people that read this forum that don’t post their thoughts and feeling and there are many other places where Michael’s disappearance is discussed . Maybe that is the reason so many are losing faith that he is alive because the evidence has not produced a BAM, and that is what so many are looking for. <br /><br /><br />One has to step out of the proverbial “Hoax” box and look at the reality of what Michael wrote and spoke about and in understanding the deeper meaning of his words, you can feel his energy is alive, and evidence is not needed.<br />
<br /><br />RedRope I do appreciate your post but we are not psychics here I mean I would feel Michael's energy even being dead because I bring him in my heart and I listen to his music in a daily basis, lol just joking, but I guess you get where I'm coming from. You say that what we are looking and waiting for is a BAM and yes you are right because this hoax wouldn't make any sense without a BAM the fact that Michael left behind so many clues in TII (btw we should open a thread dedicated to TII that is where real MIchael is talking to us giving us those alleged clues) means that he wanted the whole world to learn he was planning to fake his death: let me bathe in my own time......., play with them (us??, media??, TPTB?? who knows??) and then.... May anybody transcript MJ's exact words please?<br /><br /><br /><br />I think we have strongly grabbed at straws concerning this MJ last sentence in TII that's the reason why we are waiting for the infamous BAM too, but RedRope it's not our fault if that sentence what made us believe in a BAM, how would you describe what Michael wanted to convey us with that sentence? furthermore I find it fishy that after the credits he is saying that + no RIP or 1958-2009 in the whole movie.
@Sunset.....Like I said in my first post here, it is distraction and manipulation, and if you knew the people behind it, you would run from this whole scheme. The age old tactic of taking the enemy down is to distract them by means that is closest to the heart. Just like when people of interest have a child kidnapped. They use that child to get the attention and to manipulate the target into focusing on their agenda. The target will do anything, think anything and see anything they are presented with in order to get their child back. Those who love Michael are the target and his Legacy is the child. <br /><br />And all the while that we are focused on the child, our freedom and our livelihood is being snatched right out from under us. This is just the medium for Michael’s fans. They are doing it with every interest group around the world for whatever their focus is on. If you interest is in a politician they will use that, if your interest lies in a sports figure or a religious organization, they will use that. They know how to play you and give you the illusion of anything you put your focus on.<br /><br />The energy that I speak of is the energy that Michael gives off in his human state of existence, and it doesn’t require psychic abilities, only an open mind to see beyond only those things that are visible and it is something that would not be felt if he were not alive on this earth. That is what he meant when he said we are all ONE. We are connected by that vibration and energy as long as we are in a physical body. When we leave this earth we go to a higher existence of vibration.
@ Sunset....<br />Also I wanted to add that what you are saying about the “alleged clues” in TII IS just that “alleged”. I can promise you, if you had seen that footage the day after 6/25…No one would have said, “OH that is Michael giving us a clue he’s not dead but a Hoax, and is going to come back with a BAM return” It was only after the Manipulators used power of suggestion and began creating videos with those clips suggesting that Michael was returning, and this and that and the other were clues. <br />And yes indeed they are very capable of creating look a likes and impostors just like the ones some of you have had the unfortunate pleasure of being entangled with, to lead you down a path of disappointment and heartbreak.
As always I think Michael has done the right thing for himself with the June 25.<br />And he knew perfectly well that the wickedness of the world there would always be.<br /><br />He wanted to reunite with his clues and messages all the peoples who were able to receive them with heart and mind.<br /><br />And we must continue united in love , leaving to others the malices , slanders and gossip .<br /><br />This is the only way to make understand everyone ,the meaning of the message that Michael gave to the world on June 25<br /><br /><br />Michael see all :moonwalk_:<br /><br /><br />Off topic or maybe not .....you've seen the One Direction's movie title which was released on August 29th ? :icon_e_wink:<br /><br />http://www.comingsoon.net/films.php?id=90812
<br />@Thriller4ever….I don’t think you are understanding my point here. I don’t need to read evidence because I do feel Michael’s energy and presence on this earth and there are many around the world that do. There are many people that read this forum that don’t post their thoughts and feeling and there are many other places where Michael’s disappearance is discussed . Maybe that is the reason so many are losing faith that he is alive because the evidence has not produced a BAM, and that is what so many are looking for. <br /><br /><br />One has to step out of the proverbial “Hoax” box and look at the reality of what Michael wrote and spoke about and in understanding the deeper meaning of his words, you can feel his energy is alive, and evidence is not needed.<br /><br />
<br /> Hi "Red Rope". I just want to say, lest someone would "feel" personally discouraged or less than adequate about not being able to "feel" Michael Jackson's energy here, that feelings are your own, FOR you and are unreliable as convincing argument, because they can be wrong. :icon_e_confused: I use intuition as well, but my intuition makes me curious, compelling research, NOT conclusions. <br /><br />Many, many people have landed in prisons and even death row, because jurors allowed their feelings and intuition about someone they had never met and did not know, carry more weight than the evidence, when their "feelings" recoiled at a defendant's tattoos or something else. Anyway, everyone doesn't go by feel; some people KNOW they need something a little less arbitrary, something which carries weight not only in the court of public opinion, but especially in a court of Law, like cold hard FACTs in EVIDENCE. Thankfully there are lots of facts and questions, so no one will be uncertain about what is the truth, once all the facts are in. <br /><br />Sometimes we all think we feel him here (on Earth AND this forum :thjajaja121:), and we all wish to, but if someone cannot honestly "tell" if he's really alive it doesn't change anything. They'll feel it real when he deems it's Time.<br /><br />Yes, we can feel some energy in his words, his purposeful lyrics, and especially the words at his memorial, supposedly MJ stating that he is alive and here forever. But, only hard evidence that HE said it will remove the "supposedly" out of the statement we all read. MY feelings tell ME (alone) to sniff out and back the EVIDENCE, so I'll have something to show others, but that's just me. :icon_e_smile:<br /><br />P.S. I like your name! I haven't read everywhere yet, and it may only be in reference to a red pigtail (Idk :icon_geek: )and if not, you probably know this, but a [glow=red,2,300]scarlet rope[/glow] :icon_e_surprised: was something the old Hebrews used to tie to their High Priests' ankles in order to RETRIEVE THE BODY if he died inside the holiest place in their temple, where no one else besides him could go in and live. How coincidental :icon_exclaim:, :icon_bounce: HERE, because I think the investigated evidence is designed to do JUST THAT; produce a body OR bring living MJ OUT by his sparkly ankles!!! :icon_cool:
<br />Why is it that people can’t just accept the fact that Michael’s life was in danger? He said many many times that he feared for his life. There was an entire FBI investigation done on persons that had threatened his life. It is because he didn’t say exactly who he feared? It is because it’s not the Glamorous answer that would lead to a BAM Day? Is it because that is not entertaining enough and it leads to finality. <br /><br />Because if anyone really believes Michael’s life was in danger, and he had to stage his death with the help of very few very intelligent people that the public knew nothing of, then you have to know that he is not going to return only to be a target. I completely DO NOT get it as to why people would say “Oh Michael would never do that to his fans” Why does everyone make it out to be about them…”the Fans”…it’s NOT about any of us. It is about a Human Being’s Life.<br /><br />A man that was deeply hated by a very sinister elite group that wanted to shut his message up, and who wanted his energy off of this earth. Why do a lot of people KNOW that Michael is still alive without “In your face” evidence. Because we feel his energy and his spirit, period. But for Michael to spend years creating some Hoax and then to return years later, would be a Death sentence for him. Not to mention great Deception, which Michael is not about for any reason.<br /><br />There would be no vindication because people already believe what they want to believe in spite of the truth. Evil breeds evil. Look at the people around the world that deny the existence of Jehovah, or what ever name you chose to give to the Creator, our Heavenly Father and his Son Jesus Christ. Michael studied the life of that man and lived his accordingly, but yet even people that say they Love Michael, deny Christ because his teachings don’t fit their lifestyle.<br /><br />So 4 years later I see happening just what was designed to happen with “Fans” confusion and chaos and bickering and back bitting. No Love and peace and Harmony. Does anyone think Michael would have Designed this Plan? No!<br />
<br /><br />Some great questions here RedRope and I could write a very long response (still might, if the discussion continues and I have the time), but for now I'll just pose a question to you if I may:<br /><br />If Michael Jackson's life was in danger and he had to stage his death, as you suggest, why, assuming he didn't want his enemies to know he was still alive, would he not choose a convincing, natural, unremarkable, no questions asked, buried in a couple of weeks, way to die?<br /><br />Surely this question has to be answered satisfactorily before even thinking of entertaining the idea of manipulators etc after June 2009.<br />
<br />@ Sunset....<br />Also I wanted to add that what you are saying about the “alleged clues” in TII IS just that “alleged”. I can promise you, if you had seen that footage the day after 6/25…No one would have said, “OH that is Michael giving us a clue he’s not dead but a Hoax, and is going to come back with a BAM return” It was only after the Manipulators used power of suggestion and began creating videos with those clips suggesting that Michael was returning, and this and that and the other were clues. <br />And yes indeed they are very capable of creating look a likes and impostors just like the ones some of you have had the unfortunate pleasure of being entangled with, to lead you down a path of disappointment and heartbreak.<br />
<br /><br />Oh no please don't tell me that the one saying I will play with them it's an impersonator because that is noone but MJ himself and TII is full of clues IMO.
<br />If Michael Jackson's life was in danger and he had to stage his death, as you suggest, why, assuming he didn't want his enemies to know he was still alive, would he not choose a convincing, natural, unremarkable, no questions asked, buried in a couple of weeks, way to die?
<br /><br />Yes...and I would like to add: for the sake of his children, wouldn´t he have done just that?<br />No comeback would mean that they will have to live with the stimga "your dad was a pathetic drug addict" for all their lives.
@ Curls….What Michael staged was not anything that the public saw, what he did was only to convince those that wanted to take his life that he was no longer here. What the public saw was what the Manipulators staged. But in any case there was no body, which is why what they put together for us to see was so questionable. There would be no need to hang out of a helicopter door to land and take a gurney out on the landing pad. And who knew there would be helicopter transport in order to put another helicopter in the air to film it. They had to act very quickly and they were sloppy, just like the ambulance picture. That was someone else’s doing, not Michael’s And how many years now has everyone spent pouring over all that and debating and arguing, with discord and fighting between sides of BeLIEvers and non.<br /><br />@ It’s her…respectfully I will reply, that you and I aren’t even on the same page when I speak of “Feeling” And just from what your reply was, tells me that if you understood what I was saying you wouldn’t have questioned it. But it’s ok, not everyone gets it and it’s not a bad thing, it’s just that some people have that relationship with another human being and can understand what it means. You might want to take a look at this video when you have time. it will explain much better.<br /><br /> /><br /><br />@Sunset......Michael played with the audience during the HIStory Tour, when he popped out of the stage and stood there with them yelling for what seemed like forever, and then BAM the music started... and that was the playing he was speaking of. Nothing more, no clue. The bottom line is...this is not game with what happened in Michael's life...he either did what he had to do, or be killed. I'm sure his children was prepared well in advance as hard as it is for them. It's just his fans that want him back so badly that can't come to terms with him not returning. Personally I would never want him to be visible to the eyes of the world. I love him to much, and understand what that would mean for him. To the world... Michael is dead and will remain that way. To those who can find a way to understand what he had to do, he will always be ALIVE. Maybe in another 4 years it will be evident. By that time life as we know it will not be the same.
Let me breath in my own time again until I come back in, then I???? my jacket, snap my fingers, play with them, and then BAM!!<br />Mj says, buttoning my jacket "is true that in USA, used as urban phrase or idiom, it means death?
<br />Let me breath in my own time again until I come back in, then I???? my jacket, snap my fingers, play with them, and then BAM!!<br />Mj says, buttoning my jacket "is true that in USA, used as urban phrase or idiom, it means death?<br />
<br /><br />No, that's not true. Never heard that phrase before.<br /><br />General comments on the thread:<br /><br />Hoax with comeback occurred to me on 6/26/09, because that's just how MJ rolls. It's his style and right up his alley. I didn't need anyone to suggest it to me, I came up with it on my own. I hadn't even watched a news report yet. I received a text message from a friend at about 5pm 6/25/09 saying MJ died of cardiac arrest and that was all I knew. Hoax with comeback was a product of my own mind and experience watching MJ the entertainer over the years.<br /><br />Honestly I watched both the memorial and TII and saw no clues. The burial, on the other hand, is what cemented my belief in hoax+comeback.<br /><br />I think TS/_comments is nearly solely responsible for the "life in danger" aka FBI involvement theory. No one before that was talking about anything even remotely of the sort. That's where I think the power of suggestion has muddied the waters. Just my opinion and first hand observations. The escape theory was briefly supported by some early on but was pretty much debunked by October, and completely in it's death throws by the new year 2010. Evidence to back it up failed to be produced.<br /><br />Time increases doubts but it also allows some theories to be discarded as irrelevant or unrealistic.
<br />.... May anybody transcript MJ's exact words please?<br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Sunset, his words are (brackets round bits that are unclear to me):<br /><br />"Let me bathe (breathe) in my own time when I come back in. I'm gonna (un)button my shirt, jacket, (or) whatever it is. I'm gonna look around a little bit, play with them. Snap my finger maybe, then bam!"
<br />@ Curls….What Michael staged was not anything that the public saw, what he did was only to convince those that wanted to take his life that he was no longer here. What the public saw was what the Manipulators staged. ........<br />
<br /><br />RedRope, I can fully entertain the idea that what the public saw was not what really happened, that's what this site is all about after all, but you're going to have to expand on "what he did was only to convince those that wanted to take his life that he was no longer here." How do you suppose he did that then? And supposing he did, did 'those that wanted him dead' go and tell 'the manipulators' - or are they one and the same? I've gathered you go on feelings, but you need to come up with evidence or at least, something more concrete than imagination if I'm to take your theory seriously. And honestly, I AM prepared, to look at any theory.
Thanks Marum and Curls for the transcription, however I think what he really says is:"Let me breathe in my own time when I come back here" what means "in case it were a clue" that he is gonna need some time to get the wrongs righted after BAM if this finally occurs, I always thought he said: "Let me breathe in my own time and then come back here" something like he will take his time to work behind the scene and then reappear cause I do believe this phrase was made as a clue to make us wonder about his alleged "death".<br />Bec this phrase in the movie context "if it wasn't a clue" wouldn't make sense, I mean, it makes sense all the phrase if we talk about dance and show but what it's really weird is when he says he will play with them?? Now could you please elaborate about the clues you found in his Funeral cause I don't believe in the Hat man or Blonde lady being MJ however was very fishy to see all the dancers making the role of ushers + the use of a green screen, lol.
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."