There is a difference between resting and relaxing. With REM sleep, your body is resting and restoring. REM sleep is essential for your health. Essential in meaning: you will DIE if you do not get regular sleep.
which is exactly why anaesthesia is not suitable as a sleeping aid. you feel like you have slept but you haven't. you skip the phases of healthy sleeping, which are necessary, you just knock out.[/quote]
i think thats right, i have had alot of surgery and when i have woken up i have felt awful, zombie
here's a vid about michael's 'missing nose', an interview with geraldo and someone who claims that michael had a prosthetic nose (some pics are just tasteless, disregard that, please!). is that even mentioned in the autopsy report, if this was true? i've read through about half of it and some other bits and pieces, but didn't find anything about an 'absent nosetip' or the likes yet. i figure that would be in there...?
anyway, towards the end of it, there is a pic of michael (from the side, at 1:55) where i think i see a scar behind his ear which appears to be quite large. but then, i thought the base of the neck would be more towards the shoulder? or is the base where the skull ends? help, anyone?
Hmm.. yes i see the scar on the neck here. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
And, thing is, Geraldo Riveria.. i thought he was a friend of MJs??? Yet he says he witnessed MJ "take off" his false nose and he just had a band aid over a lump???? Yet the autopsy didnt say he had a prosthetic nose. It said gauze on the tip and then "nasal structures" UNDERNEATH the skin... so it wasnt a nose that he could take off whenever he felt like it because the structure was underneath the skin.
here's a vid about michael's 'missing nose', an interview with geraldo and someone who claims that michael had a prosthetic nose (some pics are just tasteless, disregard that, please!). is that even mentioned in the autopsy report, if this was true? i've read through about half of it and some other bits and pieces, but didn't find anything about an 'absent nosetip' or the likes yet. i figure that would be in there...?
anyway, towards the end of it, there is a pic of michael (from the side, at 1:55) where i think i see a scar behind his ear which appears to be quite large. but then, i thought the base of the neck would be more towards the shoulder? or is the base where the skull ends? help, anyone?
Hmm.. yes i see the scar on the neck here. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
And, thing is, Geraldo Riveria.. i thought he was a friend of MJs??? Yet he says he witnessed MJ "take off" his false nose and he just had a band aid over a lump???? Yet the autopsy didnt say he had a prosthetic nose. It said gauze on the tip and then "nasal structures" UNDERNEATH the skin... so it wasnt a nose that he could take off whenever he felt like it because the structure was underneath the skin.
Hmm.. confusing...
[youtube:1rmux8uf]
Can you point out exactly where in the report it says 'nasal structures'?
It says "The oronasal passages are unobstructed. A bandage is present at the tip of the nose." on page 15
Please don't we start speculating about him having no nose, please ...it's just absurd, he's got a nose. Full stop. End of the story.
This is a discussion about the autopsy which we are investigating to see its validity. This is not a discussion about making judgements on MJs decision to have or not have rhinoplasty. But the fact is, this is what it says in the autopsy report and i want to know exactly what it means.
Other people have said in interviews he had a prosthetic nose he could take off, others have said this is nonsense and his nose was his... yet in the autopsy it says "nasal and cranial structures". We have to investigate to find out the truth.
I agree.This needs to be discussed from every angle.
In many pics his nose has a different colour, actually looks like a silicon nose. Is nothing wrong about it and I would not be surprised that a mayor damage happened after surgery, making the cartilage structure to colapse. MJ would not be the first person having an intervention that could may been going wrong. Some people even die after an intervention.
Medical negligence of aesthetic doctors is well known for not taking the patient´s psycho in consideration but their money.
This has nothing to do with love for MJ or respect, is a medical condition that needs to be contrasted in order to set some logic in to the autopsy report.
So if we are to believe the autopsy report, do we believe MJ is dead? I can't believe it in light of all the clues we have - so where does this leave the autopsy report? <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
I agree.This needs to be discussed from every angle.
In many pics his nose has a different colour, actually looks like a silicon nose. Is nothing wrong about it and I would not be surprised that a mayor damage happened after surgery, making the cartilage structure to colapse. MJ would not be the first person having an intervention that could may been going wrong. Some people even die after an intervention.
Medical negligence of aesthetic doctors is well known for not taking the patient´s psycho in consideration but their money.
This has nothing to do with love for MJ or respect, is a medical condition that needs to be contrasted in order to set some logic in to the autopsy report.
The different color may be due to vitiligo discoloration. Patches of skin, especially after plastic surgery may therefore get different colors.
So if we are to believe the autopsy report, do we believe MJ is dead? I can't believe it in light of all the clues we have - so where does this leave the autopsy report? <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
I find this difficult to fit into the "alive" picture Datroot.
I would like to question the part in the report where they collect hair samples from him in the yellow casket with the blue lining. Latoya was there, however it says the body was wrapped in white towels and sheets, and the only thing that was visable was his hands and top of his head. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> What where they hiding? why wrap him in towels and sheets? No one could see his face ??????
I would like to question the part in the report where they collect hair samples from him in the yellow casket with the blue lining. Latoya was there, however it says the body was wrapped in white towels and sheets, and the only thing that was visable was his hands and top of his head. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> What where they hiding? why wrap him in towels and sheets? No one could see his face ??????
Out of respect? Isnt it custom to cover a corpses head and face with a sheet?
So if we are to believe the autopsy report, do we believe MJ is dead? I can't believe it in light of all the clues we have - so where does this leave the autopsy report? <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: -->
Well Datroot, I see this issue this way. There's a fact: an autopsy report has been released, we cannot deny this fact, that just happened and it's right there, so to me is worth to take a look and analize it, isn't it?.
Personally I don't give any name to this patient/body, I'm just focussing in its content, trying to dismiss it. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Please don't we start speculating about him having no nose, please ...it's just absurd, he's got a nose. Full stop. End of the story.
sorry if this went off topic, the only reason i put the link here was for the picture where you can see a scar behind the ear. i originally replied to another post mentioning the scars. it was not my intention to start a nose related discussion.
i guess that shows how tabloids are working...maybe geraldo was just 'playing around', too. who knows. he can be like that, i think, pretending he's going for it just to expose more of the garbage people are producing.
I read somewhere that there were two small masses found and listed in the autopsy report. I believe one was on the liver and I can't remember where the other was. Can someone please tell me which page(s) it mentions the masses on in the report?
I would like to question the part in the report where they collect hair samples from him in the yellow casket with the blue lining. Latoya was there, however it says the body was wrapped in white towels and sheets, and the only thing that was visable was his hands and top of his head. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> What where they hiding? why wrap him in towels and sheets? No one could see his face ??????
Out of respect? Isnt it custom to cover a corpses head and face with a sheet?
Yes, I argee if you are laying on a gurny, but never wrapped in a coffin? I think they were trying on purpose to hide his face.
SORRY BUT I MIGHT HAVE NEVER MET MICHAEL JACKSON BUT MY HEART & GUT TELLS ME HE WAS NOT A SMOKER!!!!
THAT IS NOT HIS BODY!
THE PARAMEDICS DESCRIBED THE PERSON THEY FOUND AS A WHITE SICKLY OLD BOLD HEADED MAN AND THAT IS WHAT THEY WROTE DOWN ON THERE REPORT!!!
THEY ALSO REPORTED THAT THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT IT WAS MICHAEL JACKSON!!!
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT DOES THAT MEAN!! IT MEANS THAT IS WAS NOT MICHAEL JACKSON !!!
BUT NOW IF THE PHOTO HAS BEEN CONFIRMED AS FAKE AS WE ALL KNEW THAN THE PARAMEDICS
HAD TO BE FAKE TO!!
SOME ONE ON YOU TUBE WENT TO DR. MURRAY'S OFFICE AND IT WAS AN ABANDONED BUILDING!!!
LIKE I SAID "THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOSE" AND THE WIZ WAS JUST A WEAK FRIGHTENED OLD MAN
WHO HAD NO COURAGE, BRAINS OR HEART!!!!
What puzzles me is that if this is a fake report, why would MJ want it to say things about his nose having "structures"? Or that he was bald and tattooed? Or that he had colon polyps and an enlarged prostate? I just can't imagine he'd go there even if he wanted it to look realistic. So is it a real report and a body double? I have my doubts there as well because the person wasn't terminal or it would have stated that. Someone help me out with other theories please!
What puzzles me is that if this is a fake report, why would MJ want it to say things about his nose having "structures"? Or that he was bald and tattooed? Or that he had colon polyps and an enlarged prostate? I just can't imagine he'd go there even if he wanted it to look realistic. So is it a real report and a body double? I have my doubts there as well because the person wasn't terminal or it would have stated that. Someone help me out with other theories please!
That's what's very strange to me too and I have a hard time believing that it's someone else's body... I mean the bottle of pee and all that stuff? But what also puzzles me are the circumstances around this whole "death" and how people have been behaving (e.g. the family). However, Katherine claiming someone was involved in her son's death is very worrying to me. She just does not seem like the kind of woman that would lie and not say things if she doesn't really mean them <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> . If Michael really is gone I feel kind of disgusted because some things just seems like a joke and Michael does not deserve that.
What puzzles me is that if this is a fake report, why would MJ want it to say things about his nose having "structures"? Or that he was bald and tattooed? Or that he had colon polyps and an enlarged prostate? I just can't imagine he'd go there even if he wanted it to look realistic. So is it a real report and a body double? I have my doubts there as well because the person wasn't terminal or it would have stated that. Someone help me out with other theories please!
Maybe he was just trying to make it very obvious without actually saying it. IDK. I have no definitive answer but I doubt the report was real. If it belonged to someone else unknown to MJ or the Coroner, couldn't that family could come back and sue? There are too many "conflicting" stories being said of his health by family, friends, coroner, etc. If he had these health issues I think some of them would have been caught when he did that physical and he may not have been insurable, right?
What puzzles me is that if this is a fake report, why would MJ want it to say things about his nose having "structures"? Or that he was bald and tattooed? Or that he had colon polyps and an enlarged prostate? I just can't imagine he'd go there even if he wanted it to look realistic. So is it a real report and a body double? I have my doubts there as well because the person wasn't terminal or it would have stated that. Someone help me out with other theories please!
Maybe he was just trying to make it very obvious without actually saying it. IDK. I have no definitive answer but I doubt the report was real. If it belonged to someone else unknown to MJ or the Coroner, couldn't that family could come back and sue? There are too many "conflicting" stories being said of his health by family, friends, coroner, etc. If he had these health issues I think some of them would have been caught when he did that physical and he may not have been insurable, right?
i really think this supports the '2 bodies arriving at the hospital'-theory. all the outside marks (nose, scars, discolorations etc.) could have been dictated, shown in person etc. especially considering that the report bluntly states 'the decedent had vitiligo'. isn't that something that has to be diagnosed? can you say that just looking at a person's skin who does not really show too much of it anymore, apart from being pale? then you just state 'pale skin' but not 'vitiligo'. i know people who have blotches on their skin (also large ones that look like some blotches shown in mj-pics) and definitely don't have vitiligo.
the guy who went through the autopsy ('michael joseph jackson', not 'michael joe jackson', which is the legal name; plus he was 2 inches taller than mj) might thus be the one the paramedics described. then you have the poor quality of those docs. with nowadays' technology and considering a high-profile case like this, i'm wondering why this document looks like it's been filled out with a typewriter and why there are drawings and scribbles like a five-year old got to play with it...('make a circle where you see a mark or scar on michael'). the handwriting is almost illegible, don't they have to write in a fashion where the next one working on the case can at least read what the other found out?
i would also think that those kind of documents would be digital by now, or at least digitally 'remastered' (like including digital photos instead or at least typing in what was handwritten before), before publishing it. i have the impression that this is way against the usual 'outfit' of those kind of documents. like someone 'played coroner' using some outdated forms and seals.
y'all remember playing 'post office' as kids? this is what this autopsy report reminds me of.
His name is Michael Joseph Jackson, which is information that came from himself.
Like I posted before, the Joe/Joseph issue is not relevant. It often happens that on official documents, even on death certificates, the name is misspelled or more often, spelled the way the decedent was known or used to call himself.
However the real official name remains the one on the brithcertificate.
Comments
which is exactly why anaesthesia is not suitable as a sleeping aid. you feel like you have slept but you haven't. you skip the phases of healthy sleeping, which are necessary, you just knock out.[/quote]
i think thats right, i have had alot of surgery and when i have woken up i have felt awful, zombie
Hmm.. yes i see the scar on the neck here. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
And, thing is, Geraldo Riveria.. i thought he was a friend of MJs??? Yet he says he witnessed MJ "take off" his false nose and he just had a band aid over a lump???? Yet the autopsy didnt say he had a prosthetic nose. It said gauze on the tip and then "nasal structures" UNDERNEATH the skin... so it wasnt a nose that he could take off whenever he felt like it because the structure was underneath the skin.
Hmm.. confusing...
[youtube:3sfrp3yh]
It says "The oronasal passages are unobstructed. A bandage is present at the tip of the nose." on page 15
It says "nasal bones are obscured by overlying cranial and facial structures" <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
For me it has to do with the plastic surgery he did on the nose.
But... any doctor here to explain this? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
This story that he took and put his nose to me is a joke. Obviously this is not true and the nose of his.
This is a discussion about the autopsy which we are investigating to see its validity. This is not a discussion about making judgements on MJs decision to have or not have rhinoplasty. But the fact is, this is what it says in the autopsy report and i want to know exactly what it means.
Other people have said in interviews he had a prosthetic nose he could take off, others have said this is nonsense and his nose was his... yet in the autopsy it says "nasal and cranial structures". We have to investigate to find out the truth.
Its a necessary evil to discuss this.
In many pics his nose has a different colour, actually looks like a silicon nose. Is nothing wrong about it and I would not be surprised that a mayor damage happened after surgery, making the cartilage structure to colapse. MJ would not be the first person having an intervention that could may been going wrong. Some people even die after an intervention.
Medical negligence of aesthetic doctors is well known for not taking the patient´s psycho in consideration but their money.
This has nothing to do with love for MJ or respect, is a medical condition that needs to be contrasted in order to set some logic in to the autopsy report.
Out of respect? Isnt it custom to cover a corpses head and face with a sheet?
Well Datroot, I see this issue this way. There's a fact: an autopsy report has been released, we cannot deny this fact, that just happened and it's right there, so to me is worth to take a look and analize it, isn't it?.
Personally I don't give any name to this patient/body, I'm just focussing in its content, trying to dismiss it. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
sorry if this went off topic, the only reason i put the link here was for the picture where you can see a scar behind the ear. i originally replied to another post mentioning the scars. it was not my intention to start a nose related discussion.
i guess that shows how tabloids are working...maybe geraldo was just 'playing around', too. who knows. he can be like that, i think, pretending he's going for it just to expose more of the garbage people are producing.
Thanks
Yes, I argee if you are laying on a gurny, but never wrapped in a coffin? I think they were trying on purpose to hide his face.
THAT IS NOT HIS BODY!
THE PARAMEDICS DESCRIBED THE PERSON THEY FOUND AS A WHITE SICKLY OLD BOLD HEADED MAN AND THAT IS WHAT THEY WROTE DOWN ON THERE REPORT!!!
THEY ALSO REPORTED THAT THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT IT WAS MICHAEL JACKSON!!!
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT DOES THAT MEAN!! IT MEANS THAT IS WAS NOT MICHAEL JACKSON !!!
BUT NOW IF THE PHOTO HAS BEEN CONFIRMED AS FAKE AS WE ALL KNEW THAN THE PARAMEDICS
HAD TO BE FAKE TO!!
SOME ONE ON YOU TUBE WENT TO DR. MURRAY'S OFFICE AND IT WAS AN ABANDONED BUILDING!!!
LIKE I SAID "THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOSE" AND THE WIZ WAS JUST A WEAK FRIGHTENED OLD MAN
WHO HAD NO COURAGE, BRAINS OR HEART!!!!
That's what's very strange to me too and I have a hard time believing that it's someone else's body... I mean the bottle of pee and all that stuff? But what also puzzles me are the circumstances around this whole "death" and how people have been behaving (e.g. the family). However, Katherine claiming someone was involved in her son's death is very worrying to me. She just does not seem like the kind of woman that would lie and not say things if she doesn't really mean them <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> . If Michael really is gone I feel kind of disgusted because some things just seems like a joke and Michael does not deserve that.
doesnt look like mj to me, looks like one of his body doubles in this pic
Maybe he was just trying to make it very obvious without actually saying it. IDK. I have no definitive answer but I doubt the report was real. If it belonged to someone else unknown to MJ or the Coroner, couldn't that family could come back and sue? There are too many "conflicting" stories being said of his health by family, friends, coroner, etc. If he had these health issues I think some of them would have been caught when he did that physical and he may not have been insurable, right?
i really think this supports the '2 bodies arriving at the hospital'-theory. all the outside marks (nose, scars, discolorations etc.) could have been dictated, shown in person etc. especially considering that the report bluntly states 'the decedent had vitiligo'. isn't that something that has to be diagnosed? can you say that just looking at a person's skin who does not really show too much of it anymore, apart from being pale? then you just state 'pale skin' but not 'vitiligo'. i know people who have blotches on their skin (also large ones that look like some blotches shown in mj-pics) and definitely don't have vitiligo.
the guy who went through the autopsy ('michael joseph jackson', not 'michael joe jackson', which is the legal name; plus he was 2 inches taller than mj) might thus be the one the paramedics described. then you have the poor quality of those docs. with nowadays' technology and considering a high-profile case like this, i'm wondering why this document looks like it's been filled out with a typewriter and why there are drawings and scribbles like a five-year old got to play with it...('make a circle where you see a mark or scar on michael'). the handwriting is almost illegible, don't they have to write in a fashion where the next one working on the case can at least read what the other found out?
i would also think that those kind of documents would be digital by now, or at least digitally 'remastered' (like including digital photos instead or at least typing in what was handwritten before), before publishing it. i have the impression that this is way against the usual 'outfit' of those kind of documents. like someone 'played coroner' using some outdated forms and seals.
y'all remember playing 'post office' as kids? this is what this autopsy report reminds me of.
Like I posted before, the Joe/Joseph issue is not relevant. It often happens that on official documents, even on death certificates, the name is misspelled or more often, spelled the way the decedent was known or used to call himself.
However the real official name remains the one on the brithcertificate.