"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Tom Sneddon a good friend of MJ? Don't believe it for a second. The trial was as real as you and I are and Tom Sneddon was paid to get MJ down by high profile people. The Arvizo's were chosen and sent to get Michael down, the Chandlers in the 90's were sent as well. Sneddon is just a puppet, but that certainly doesn't make him less evil. Michael changed the name in DS for legal reasons, he knew he would be sued anyway he would have just called it as it was. Michael has not been Sneddon's only victim, he went after more people. Read the V for Vendetta blog and you will know for SURE that Tom Sneddon is not Mike's friend, but his enemy. He should be prosecuted and put behind bars, as should his employers.
**note** the above opinion of Tom Sneddon, the Arvizos and the Chandlers being paid by high profile people remains just my opinion, and not fact.
For objective purpose, all sides of facts should be analized impartially. Because I love MJ very much, I will not talk as if he did not have a bit of fault what happened to him. Had Michael acted more mature, nothing would have happened. Here is why, after Chandler case, Michael had a choice to turn down Arvizos, acting more careful. No matter what Sneddon had in plans, he did not force Michael assist and allow Arzivos to live in his house & sleep in his bedroom. Michael made a choice himself. Same as with Chandler. Michael chose to help him, keep boy in his house. What Sneddon has to do with that? Thus, Sneddon could not guarantee and know Michael's steps. Another thing. if Sneddon picked people to send to MJ provoking molestation case, he would have chose people with clean and stable work background, not Arvizos that had had background of false lawsuits left and right which was used by Tom M. as a defense.
Tom Sneddon a good friend of MJ? Don't believe it for a second. The trial was as real as you and I are and Tom Sneddon was paid to get MJ down by high profile people. The Arvizo's were chosen and sent to get Michael down, the Chandlers in the 90's were sent as well. Sneddon is just a puppet, but that certainly doesn't make him less evil. Michael changed the name in DS for legal reasons, he knew he would be sued anyway he would have just called it as it was. Michael has not been Sneddon's only victim, he went after more people. Read the V for Vendetta blog and you will know for SURE that Tom Sneddon is not Mike's friend, but his enemy. He should be prosecuted and put behind bars, as should his employers.
**note** the above opinion of Tom Sneddon, the Arvizos and the Chandlers being paid by high profile people remains just my opinion, and not fact.
For objective purpose, all sides of facts should be analized impartially. Because I love MJ very much, I will not talk as if he did not have a bit of fault what happened to him. Had Michael acted more mature, nothing would have happened. Here is why, after Chandler case, Michael had a choice to turn down Arvizos, acting more careful. No matter what Sneddon had in plans, he did not force Michael assist and allow Arzivos to live in his house & sleep in his bedroom. Michael made a choice himself. Same as with Chandler. Michael chose to help him, keep boy in his house. What Sneddon has to do with that? Thus, Sneddon could not guarantee and know Michael's steps. Another thing. if Sneddon picked people to send to MJ provoking molestation case, he would have chose people with clean and stable work background, not Arvizos that had had background of false lawsuits left and right which was used by Tom M. as a defense.
I never said Sneddon was intelligent enough to pull it off in a believable way. Saying Mike is to blame is the same as when a woman gets raped and people say it was her own fault because her skirt was too short. And I think Mike knew what he was doing, I think there was a plan back then with that Batshit interview already, which went wrong because of the accusations. Something is up there.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Tom Sneddon a good friend of MJ? Don't believe it for a second. The trial was as real as you and I are and Tom Sneddon was paid to get MJ down by high profile people. The Arvizo's were chosen and sent to get Michael down, the Chandlers in the 90's were sent as well. Sneddon is just a puppet, but that certainly doesn't make him less evil. Michael changed the name in DS for legal reasons, he knew he would be sued anyway he would have just called it as it was. Michael has not been Sneddon's only victim, he went after more people. Read the V for Vendetta blog and you will know for SURE that Tom Sneddon is not Mike's friend, but his enemy. He should be prosecuted and put behind bars, as should his employers.
**note** the above opinion of Tom Sneddon, the Arvizos and the Chandlers being paid by high profile people remains just my opinion, and not fact.
For objective purpose, all sides of facts should be analized impartially. Because I love MJ very much, I will not talk as if he did not have a bit of fault what happened to him. Had Michael acted more mature, nothing would have happened. Here is why, after Chandler case, Michael had a choice to turn down Arvizos, acting more careful. No matter what Sneddon had in plans, he did not force Michael assist and allow Arzivos to live in his house & sleep in his bedroom. Michael made a choice himself. Same as with Chandler. Michael chose to help him, keep boy in his house. What Sneddon has to do with that? Thus, Sneddon could not guarantee and know Michael's steps. Another thing. if Sneddon picked people to send to MJ provoking molestation case, he would have chose people with clean and stable work background, not Arvizos that had had background of false lawsuits left and right which was used by Tom M. as a defense.
I never said Sneddon was intelligent enough to pull it off in a believable way. Saying Mike is to blame is the same as when a woman gets raped and people say it was her own fault because her skirt was too short. And I think Mike knew what he was doing, I think there was a plan back then with that Batshit interview already, which went wrong because of the accusations. Something is up there.
And Michael is a raper or woman with too short skirt? <!-- s --><!-- s --> Not a good example IMO. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Tom Sneddon a good friend of MJ? Don't believe it for a second. The trial was as real as you and I are and Tom Sneddon was paid to get MJ down by high profile people. The Arvizo's were chosen and sent to get Michael down, the Chandlers in the 90's were sent as well. Sneddon is just a puppet, but that certainly doesn't make him less evil. Michael changed the name in DS for legal reasons, he knew he would be sued anyway he would have just called it as it was. Michael has not been Sneddon's only victim, he went after more people. Read the V for Vendetta blog and you will know for SURE that Tom Sneddon is not Mike's friend, but his enemy. He should be prosecuted and put behind bars, as should his employers.
**note** the above opinion of Tom Sneddon, the Arvizos and the Chandlers being paid by high profile people remains just my opinion, and not fact.
For objective purpose, all sides of facts should be analized impartially. Because I love MJ very much, I will not talk as if he did not have a bit of fault what happened to him. Had Michael acted more mature, nothing would have happened. Here is why, after Chandler case, Michael had a choice to turn down Arvizos, acting more careful. No matter what Sneddon had in plans, he did not force Michael assist and allow Arzivos to live in his house & sleep in his bedroom. Michael made a choice himself. Same as with Chandler. Michael chose to help him, keep boy in his house. What Sneddon has to do with that? Thus, Sneddon could not guarantee and know Michael's steps. Another thing. if Sneddon picked people to send to MJ provoking molestation case, he would have chose people with clean and stable work background, not Arvizos that had had background of false lawsuits left and right which was used by Tom M. as a defense.
I never said Sneddon was intelligent enough to pull it off in a believable way. Saying Mike is to blame is the same as when a woman gets raped and people say it was her own fault because her skirt was too short. And I think Mike knew what he was doing, I think there was a plan back then with that Batshit interview already, which went wrong because of the accusations. Something is up there.
And Michael is a raper or woman with too short skirt? <!-- s --><!-- s --> Not a good example IMO. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
No, I think you didn't get my point.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
For objective purpose, all sides of facts should be analized impartially. Because I love MJ very much, I will not talk as if he did not have a bit of fault what happened to him. Had Michael acted more mature, nothing would have happened. Here is why, after Chandler case, Michael had a choice to turn down Arvizos, acting more careful. No matter what Sneddon had in plans, he did not force Michael assist and allow Arzivos to live in his house & sleep in his bedroom. Michael made a choice himself. Same as with Chandler. Michael chose to help him, keep boy in his house. What Sneddon has to do with that? Thus, Sneddon could not guarantee and know Michael's steps. Another thing. if Sneddon picked people to send to MJ provoking molestation case, he would have chose people with clean and stable work background, not Arvizos that had had background of false lawsuits left and right which was used by Tom M. as a defense.
I agree Scorpionchik. I don't think we can truly vindicate MJ if we as fans continue to pretend he was some blameless victim. He had/has no ill intent, but he did make bad decisions that put him into the situation he was in, knowing what position it put him in a decade prior. That being said, it's possible that the Arvizos joined forces with Sneddon after the charges were first pressed against him. <!-- s:ugeek: -->:ugeek:<!-- s:ugeek: -->
While you can't blame a rape victim for being raped just because of their clothes, you can blame them for drinking heavily and staying out late in a place they don't know with no ride home late at night. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
For objective purpose, all sides of facts should be analized impartially. Because I love MJ very much, I will not talk as if he did not have a bit of fault what happened to him. Had Michael acted more mature, nothing would have happened. Here is why, after Chandler case, Michael had a choice to turn down Arvizos, acting more careful. No matter what Sneddon had in plans, he did not force Michael assist and allow Arzivos to live in his house & sleep in his bedroom. Michael made a choice himself. Same as with Chandler. Michael chose to help him, keep boy in his house. What Sneddon has to do with that? Thus, Sneddon could not guarantee and know Michael's steps. Another thing. if Sneddon picked people to send to MJ provoking molestation case, he would have chose people with clean and stable work background, not Arvizos that had had background of false lawsuits left and right which was used by Tom M. as a defense.
I agree Scorpionchik. I don't think we can truly vindicate MJ if we as fans continue to pretend he was some blameless victim. He had/has no ill intent, but he did make bad decisions that put him into the situation he was in, knowing what position it put him in a decade prior. That being said, it's possible that the Arvizos joined forces with Sneddon after the charges were first pressed against him. <!-- s:ugeek: -->:ugeek:<!-- s:ugeek: -->
While you can't blame a rape victim for being raped just because of their clothes, you can blame them for drinking heavily and staying out late in a place they don't know with no ride home late at night. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I see where you guys are coming from...but is it so wrong that a person would not even relate sleeping in a bed to sexual activity? It is us, society, who makes that connection. Michael Jackson was not apart of relguar society. He may not have had any idea that that conduct was considered inappropriate. The man had to heavily disguise himself just to leave his home, for god's sake. I'm going to go out on a limb and say he probably felt socially awkward and simply hadn't been "conditioned by the system" like we all have. Yes, he's human like everyone else. But he's lived a different life than most of us. If I had never paid much thought to child molestation or seen things on the news (which I'm sure Michael tried to avoid the news), then why would it cross my mind that it's wrong to let a sick child sleep in my bed? I think Michael Jackson had it right and it's the rest of the world that's sick. Yes, he still has to deal with the consequences. But changing his conduct would only be conforming to the corruption of the world. So I say good for him for sticking to his guns.
Souza, I got your point. My question was a joke <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Let's say this way, guys, Michael had bad advisors. Starting from the attorney who advised Michael to settle the case wtih Chandler,who was an idiot. Because people got settlement as an MJ's agreement with accusations and short cut not to go trial because..... MJ may lose. Michael never had really carying & loving people around who would give right advice and insist MJ listen and follow the advice for his benefit. That's how I understand.
For objective purpose, all sides of facts should be analized impartially. Because I love MJ very much, I will not talk as if he did not have a bit of fault what happened to him. Had Michael acted more mature, nothing would have happened. Here is why, after Chandler case, Michael had a choice to turn down Arvizos, acting more careful. No matter what Sneddon had in plans, he did not force Michael assist and allow Arzivos to live in his house & sleep in his bedroom. Michael made a choice himself. Same as with Chandler. Michael chose to help him, keep boy in his house. What Sneddon has to do with that? Thus, Sneddon could not guarantee and know Michael's steps. Another thing. if Sneddon picked people to send to MJ provoking molestation case, he would have chose people with clean and stable work background, not Arvizos that had had background of false lawsuits left and right which was used by Tom M. as a defense.
I agree Scorpionchik. I don't think we can truly vindicate MJ if we as fans continue to pretend he was some blameless victim. He had/has no ill intent, but he did make bad decisions that put him into the situation he was in, knowing what position it put him in a decade prior. That being said, it's possible that the Arvizos joined forces with Sneddon after the charges were first pressed against him. <!-- s:ugeek: -->:ugeek:<!-- s:ugeek: -->
While you can't blame a rape victim for being raped just because of their clothes, you can blame them for drinking heavily and staying out late in a place they don't know with no ride home late at night. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I see where you guys are coming from...but is it so wrong that a person would not even relate sleeping in a bed to sexual activity? It is us, society, who makes that connection. Michael Jackson was not apart of relguar society. He may not have had any idea that that conduct was considered inappropriate. The man had to heavily disguise himself just to leave his home, for god's sake. I'm going to go out on a limb and say he probably felt socially awkward and simply hadn't been "conditioned by the system" like we all have. Yes, he's human like everyone else. But he's lived a different life than most of us. If I had never paid much thought to child molestation or seen things on the news (which I'm sure Michael tried to avoid the news), then why would it cross my mind that it's wrong to let a sick child sleep in my bed? I think Michael Jackson had it right and it's the rest of the world that's sick. Yes, he still has to deal with the consequences. But changing his conduct would only be conforming to the corruption of the world. So I say good for him for sticking to his guns.
I agree with you Jaci!! Michael's "intentions" were pure at heart, it is the corrupt minds of the Public,that turned this into something it wasn't!! In my eyes, Michael did nothing wrong, everything he does he does with Pure Honest Love, nothing else!! God Bless You Michael for being the loving man you are! I love you!
I see where you guys are coming from...but is it so wrong that a person would not even relate sleeping in a bed to sexual activity? It is us, society, who makes that connection. Michael Jackson was not apart of relguar society. He may not have had any idea that that conduct was considered inappropriate.
Really??? Michael did not have an idea that the conduct is inappropriate for the first time with Chandler and also second time with Arvizos? Really?
I don't think so. Michael was acting careless and immature, as well as his advisors were careless and incompetent to worn him. He allowed himself to be trapped. Multi miillioner businessman must be always sober.........or will pay. That is the game rule all over the world.
Michael was acting careless and immature, as well as his advisors were careless and incompetent to worn him. He allowed himself to be trapped. Multi miillioner businessman must be always sober.........or will pay. That is the game rule all over the world.[/color]
I agree that MJ is no fool, but has it ever occured to you that there might have been a plan right there to smoke out some snakes? The fact that this went to trial is a mystery, since there was NO evidence. All Sneddon had was the testimony of the Arvizo's, who were very unreliable. So maybe he (or they, since I think the FBI was involved back then already) did not think this would happen.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Maybe TS is short for The Sting. I'm of the opinion that Michael has had help with the whole planning and details of this operation and lately I'm swinging to the side that TS is more than an informer for MJ, He's a co creator.
Michael was acting careless and immature, as well as his advisors were careless and incompetent to worn him. He allowed himself to be trapped. Multi miillioner businessman must be always sober.........or will pay. That is the game rule all over the world.[/color]
I agree that MJ is no fool, but has it ever occured to you that there might have been a plan right there to smoke out some snakes? The fact that this went to trial is a mystery, since there was NO evidence. All Sneddon had was the testimony of the Arvizo's, who were very unreliable. So maybe he (or they, since I think the FBI was involved back then already)
Souza, I never said Michael is fool. MJ is smart, intelligent, genious, sweet, kind human being. BUT, at the same time he is too trustworthy, too kind, too careless,and sometimes naive. We all do mistakes being very smart and wise. MJ had his part of mistake avoiding extra causion. Nothing will change my point of view. I am saying MJ must have been very careful.
Example]http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-047.gif[/img]
Michael was acting careless and immature, as well as his advisors were careless and incompetent to worn him. He allowed himself to be trapped. Multi miillioner businessman must be always sober.........or will pay. That is the game rule all over the world.[/color]
I agree that MJ is no fool, but has it ever occured to you that there might have been a plan right there to smoke out some snakes? The fact that this went to trial is a mystery, since there was NO evidence. All Sneddon had was the testimony of the Arvizo's, who were very unreliable. So maybe he (or they, since I think the FBI was involved back then already)
Souza, I never said Michael is fool. MJ is smart, intelligent, genious, sweet, kind human being. BUT, at the same time he is too trustworthy, too kind, too careless,and sometimes naive. We all do mistakes being very smart and wise. MJ had his part of mistake avoiding extra causion. Nothing will change my point of view. I am saying MJ must have been very careful.
Example: MJ could say to his guests: "there are everywhere cameras in the house 24/7......." I would definitely say that. Why not? MJ has already had bad experience with Chandler. He had to learn lesson that he is money magnet and some people after him. Moreover, MJ new that he has been under FBI investigation for the same reason for years, right? Extra causion of safety from such complaints would not hurt him. BUT, MJ did not have camera in his bedroom, Why he did not install camera in the bedroom while kids were in his house? This fact along with Arvizos complaint, even false, was enough for Sneddon to take case to the court. have you ever thought that Sneddon maybe was not paid but he simply believed that MJ did those things, hence, he was doing his job as a prosecutor? You don't have to defend Michael, I am not accusing him. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> I love him & upset that he could have prevented that second case from even becoming a case, and he did not do it. He new what he was doing? I don't think so, at least it was not a right choice then. I am sure MJ agrees with me & will be extra careful from now on.
Sneddon spent millions from the American tax payers on the investigation and he didn't find anything. Not only in 2003, but also in 1993. He KNEW Mike was innocent but he was sent to get him down. Sneddon is not the mastermind behind all this, this goes way up. I am also aware of the fact that Mike is human and can make mistakes. He probably did make many, like we all do, but he knew they were after him and I think he knew for a very long time. But putting himself in that position might not have been naive, but planned, but the plan backfired. It's just my opinion, but I am VERY convinced that Sneddon was instructed and paid to get Mike.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
As far as the person(s) operating TIAI (dot-com): many people are not concerned who it is; they just see the importance of the message, and the evidence that it is genuine, and that is sufficient for them.
Others have tried to name a specific person behind it—such as Marlon Jackson, or someone with the personal initials of “TS”. If it really is Marlon, then surely TIAI would be genuine; however, even if I claimed to be Marlon, this would not prove that I really am Marlon. This is why I asked people to go by the evidence that the information is genuine, and not by my claim of who I am or where I got the information.
On the other hand, if I claimed to be someone with the initials of “TS”—this would not prove that I really have those initials; in fact, it wouldn’t even prove that I am not Marlon! And even if I really did have these initials, how could that be any evidence whatsoever that TIAI is or is not genuine??? And yet several have dismissed TIAI, merely on this idea that I have these personal initials!
For the sake of argument, let’s assume that I do have these personal initials—and if this fact became known, then that alone would prove TIAI to be a fake. Do you suppose that if this were actually the case, I would be so careless as to use “TS” for a username??? After all of the time and thought that was put into TIAI and STUDY: would “TS” thoughtlessly be picked for a username, if it would (supposedly) prove that TIAI is fake? Have any of you TIAI objectors stopped to think about how flimsy your objections really are? And by the way: did any of you sharp investigators notice that “TS” is an abbreviation for T-IAI and S-TUDY??
Isn't this his/her/their post since January last year saying that MJ was ready to come back.
"by TS » January 12th, 2010, 12:11 am
Great News!!! There is a real good chance that this is the last TIAI update which will be needed, before MJ is ready to “Return”! Please read this carefully, and encourage other hoaxers to read it, so that we can all be ready for the big day."
Until today MJ has not come back... although he was "ready" since last year, but things today with trial become more weird and controversal. How the link to TS is going to convince non-believers if it has not convinced me- the believer?
This is a great Idea Souza! <!-- spenguin/ -->penguin/<!-- spenguin/ -->
I agree with you 100% hesouttamylive <!-- sbow/ -->bow/<!-- sbow/ -->
by hesouttamylife » Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:56 pm
Thank you Souza for this thread. I also get the hypotheses from people saying that Michael would not do that to his children and I too beg to differ. Here are my reasons as I posted in another forum:
Michael said that he never wanted his children to be different, that he wanted them to live with normalcy? Can you imagine what normalcy they would have had if he had chosen to take them with him? None. They would have grown up afraid of everything and everybody and they would have been miserable for the rest of their lives. That is the reason I feel in my heart that Michael left them behind, so they could live a normal life. What ever he is going through, God bless him.
I have always believed in the saying if you love someone set them free. If they come back to you it was meant to be. I know that Michael’s children will grow to understand if they don’t already that what he did was courageous and done out of his love for them. He sacrificed himself for his one true love, his children. In doing so, he purposely is making a better way for them. He didn’t leave them behind out of selfishness, but to allow them the chance to live, to grow into caring, considerate, adults with something to offer the world they live in.
I don’t know what Michael is going through, however, I know that he thinks about them every minute he is away from them. I fear that he is sad and obviously unhappy that he had to do it, but coupled with those emotions that he is also content when he sees how well adjusted they have become and continues to be. Loving parents will go against all odds for their children to have what they didn’t have. Michael never had a childhood and he never had real, meaningful, fulfilling love. His children will have all of those things not in spite of but because Michael chose them over self. He made that possible. Michael is a genuis and he is a helluva daddy. I continue to pray for his peace and his well being. I have to believe that he is safe and is watching over us and them somehow. I have to believe that he knows that we are keeping vigil for him, we believe in his plan and that we will never let him part. we don’t judge him for doing what he obviously had to do. Here I must add that Michael will always be my angel and even if I never ever get the chance to see
Michael was acting careless and immature, as well as his advisors were careless and incompetent to worn him. He allowed himself to be trapped. Multi miillioner businessman must be always sober.........or will pay. That is the game rule all over the world.[/color]
I agree that MJ is no fool, but has it ever occured to you that there might have been a plan right there to smoke out some snakes? The fact that this went to trial is a mystery, since there was NO evidence. All Sneddon had was the testimony of the Arvizo's, who were very unreliable. So maybe he (or they, since I think the FBI was involved back then already) did not think this would happen.
Hi Souza and all,
I just want to say that "testimony" no matter how bogus, is considered equal evidence, as well. Thankfully, in this case, the evidence was shot down for being crap, but look how ruinous it was, anyway. This is why it is so god-awful DANGEROUS and DAMNING, when people irresponsibly just run their mouths on and on about someone else, and mindlessly REPEAT crap they heard! omg, if we learn only ONE thing from all the dialog and information on this forum, let it be that words can kill, and to THINK before talking about another human being(someone with eyes, a smile, unique thoughts and gifts for the world, a heart, hopes, dreams, and RIGHTS to life, liberty, privacy and property; in other words, the PEACEFUL pursuit of happiness )....
What is a mystery to me is that the entire family wasn't prosecuted as follow up. MJ did nothing wrong. It simply chafed at some peoples' parenting, that MJ was so much nicer to other peoples' kids than they were, so they "just knew" there had to be an ulterior motive in the single grown man's heart... Fools. There certainly was enough evidence (testimony from previous marks) that these family members are career criminals, with the parent indoctrinating <!-- s:x -->:x<!-- s:x --> the children!!
We train people how to treat us, and I think if there are never any consequences to their actions, they will repeat their scams again and again. THE loving thing, protecting others, and a lesson for any others with the same mind (targeting MJ), would have been to take advantage of the laws of the land and hold those people accountable for their actions. Some people NEVER learn and are bent on evil, but at least those kids would have had some POSITIVE input into their character development, by directive of the Court, other than their twisted mother's work ethic. It is unfortunate, because now, IDK, they probably just think, "well this scam wasn't as successful as we wanted, darn it", and view it as a challenge to perfect their "craft" in future. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
But, yeah, testimony is evidence...is THAT scary for ya? Tell me about it. <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> I am covered with the $#@!, as we speak. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
Nonbelievers have no place here, you are not even allowed to doubt because you are asked: "why did you join if you don't believe"
We are challenging nonbelievers but we don't welcome them. A nonbeliever came in chatroom and he was mocked so if we want to have a conversation with them let's give them a chance and let's treat everybody nice.
I would love to challenge and be challenged, it's good to take a realistic shot from different sides. Talking only to people who share the same vision is not very relevant.
Nonbelievers , please join this thread and let's have a nice debate in a respectful manner. <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
All I would really need to say to someone who isn't a believer is that Michael's death certificate wasn't authenticated was unable to be signed by a practicing physician or doctor. If they don't believe Michael is a live after that statement, then I don't how they could keep an open mind or at least consider the possibility. From there, I'd probably just leave it at that. i'm just trying to convince anyone.
Do non-believers really visit this forum? <!-- sfresse/ -->fresse/<!-- sfresse/ --> Why? Only for having arguments? It's kinda morbid and such a waste of time.
I never go to any "Michael is dead" forums. I can't stand all those heartbreaking posts. But that's just me and that's no way anti-welcoming. I was just wondering.
And Iam lying right now lol. I forgot, I do visit one. The MJJCommunity. But I have my own reasons for it ( not arguing!lol ) and I never post on there.
Explain how could Katherine go Target to do shopping, looking very calm on good,on the 3rd day of her sons sudden death? And how paparazzi again was right there, just like Ben the only pap. on June 25thy happened to be at Carolwood dr. [/color]
Comments
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."For objective purpose, all sides of facts should be analized impartially. Because I love MJ very much, I will not talk as if he did not have a bit of fault what happened to him. Had Michael acted more mature, nothing would have happened. Here is why, after Chandler case, Michael had a choice to turn down Arvizos, acting more careful. No matter what Sneddon had in plans, he did not force Michael assist and allow Arzivos to live in his house & sleep in his bedroom. Michael made a choice himself. Same as with Chandler. Michael chose to help him, keep boy in his house. What Sneddon has to do with that? Thus, Sneddon could not guarantee and know Michael's steps. Another thing. if Sneddon picked people to send to MJ provoking molestation case, he would have chose people with clean and stable work background, not Arvizos that had had background of false lawsuits left and right which was used by Tom M. as a defense.
I never said Sneddon was intelligent enough to pull it off in a believable way. Saying Mike is to blame is the same as when a woman gets raped and people say it was her own fault because her skirt was too short. And I think Mike knew what he was doing, I think there was a plan back then with that Batshit interview already, which went wrong because of the accusations. Something is up there.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."And Michael is a raper or woman with too short skirt? <!-- s
No, I think you didn't get my point.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I agree Scorpionchik. I don't think we can truly vindicate MJ if we as fans continue to pretend he was some blameless victim. He had/has no ill intent, but he did make bad decisions that put him into the situation he was in, knowing what position it put him in a decade prior. That being said, it's possible that the Arvizos joined forces with Sneddon after the charges were first pressed against him. <!-- s:ugeek: -->:ugeek:<!-- s:ugeek: -->
While you can't blame a rape victim for being raped just because of their clothes, you can blame them for drinking heavily and staying out late in a place they don't know with no ride home late at night. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I see where you guys are coming from...but is it so wrong that a person would not even relate sleeping in a bed to sexual activity? It is us, society, who makes that connection. Michael Jackson was not apart of relguar society. He may not have had any idea that that conduct was considered inappropriate. The man had to heavily disguise himself just to leave his home, for god's sake. I'm going to go out on a limb and say he probably felt socially awkward and simply hadn't been "conditioned by the system" like we all have. Yes, he's human like everyone else. But he's lived a different life than most of us. If I had never paid much thought to child molestation or seen things on the news (which I'm sure Michael tried to avoid the news), then why would it cross my mind that it's wrong to let a sick child sleep in my bed? I think Michael Jackson had it right and it's the rest of the world that's sick. Yes, he still has to deal with the consequences. But changing his conduct would only be conforming to the corruption of the world. So I say good for him for sticking to his guns.
Let's say this way, guys, Michael had bad advisors. Starting from the attorney who advised Michael to settle the case wtih Chandler,who was an idiot. Because people got settlement as an MJ's agreement with accusations and short cut not to go trial because..... MJ may lose. Michael never had really carying & loving people around who would give right advice and insist MJ listen and follow the advice for his benefit. That's how I understand.
I agree with you Jaci!! Michael's "intentions" were pure at heart, it is the corrupt minds of the Public,that turned this into something it wasn't!! In my eyes, Michael did nothing wrong, everything he does he does with Pure Honest Love, nothing else!! God Bless You Michael for being the loving man you are! I love you!
Blessings and Love to all!
I see where you guys are coming from...but is it so wrong that a person would not even relate sleeping in a bed to sexual activity? It is us, society, who makes that connection. Michael Jackson was not apart of relguar society. He may not have had any idea that that conduct was considered inappropriate.
Really??? Michael did not have an idea that the conduct is inappropriate for the first time with Chandler and also second time with Arvizos? Really?
I don't think so. Michael was acting careless and immature, as well as his advisors were careless and incompetent to worn him. He allowed himself to be trapped. Multi miillioner businessman must be always sober.........or will pay. That is the game rule all over the world.
I agree that MJ is no fool, but has it ever occured to you that there might have been a plan right there to smoke out some snakes? The fact that this went to trial is a mystery, since there was NO evidence. All Sneddon had was the testimony of the Arvizo's, who were very unreliable. So maybe he (or they, since I think the FBI was involved back then already) did not think this would happen.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I agree that MJ is no fool, but has it ever occured to you that there might have been a plan right there to smoke out some snakes? The fact that this went to trial is a mystery, since there was NO evidence. All Sneddon had was the testimony of the Arvizo's, who were very unreliable. So maybe he (or they, since I think the FBI was involved back then already)
Souza, I never said Michael is fool. MJ is smart, intelligent, genious, sweet, kind human being. BUT, at the same time he is too trustworthy, too kind, too careless,and sometimes naive. We all do mistakes being very smart and wise. MJ had his part of mistake avoiding extra causion. Nothing will change my point of view. I am saying MJ must have been very careful.
Example]http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-047.gif[/img]
Sneddon spent millions from the American tax payers on the investigation and he didn't find anything. Not only in 2003, but also in 1993. He KNEW Mike was innocent but he was sent to get him down. Sneddon is not the mastermind behind all this, this goes way up. I am also aware of the fact that Mike is human and can make mistakes. He probably did make many, like we all do, but he knew they were after him and I think he knew for a very long time. But putting himself in that position might not have been naive, but planned, but the plan backfired. It's just my opinion, but I am VERY convinced that Sneddon was instructed and paid to get Mike.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""by TS » January 12th, 2010, 12:11 am
Great News!!! There is a real good chance that this is the last TIAI update which will be needed, before MJ is ready to “Return”! Please read this carefully, and encourage other hoaxers to read it, so that we can all be ready for the big day."
Until today MJ has not come back... although he was "ready" since last year, but things today with trial become more weird and controversal. How the link to TS is going to convince non-believers if it has not convinced me- the believer?
I agree with you 100% hesouttamylive <!-- sbow/ -->bow/<!-- sbow/ -->
by hesouttamylife » Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:56 pm
Thank you Souza for this thread. I also get the hypotheses from people saying that Michael would not do that to his children and I too beg to differ. Here are my reasons as I posted in another forum:
Michael said that he never wanted his children to be different, that he wanted them to live with normalcy? Can you imagine what normalcy they would have had if he had chosen to take them with him? None. They would have grown up afraid of everything and everybody and they would have been miserable for the rest of their lives. That is the reason I feel in my heart that Michael left them behind, so they could live a normal life. What ever he is going through, God bless him.
I have always believed in the saying if you love someone set them free. If they come back to you it was meant to be. I know that Michael’s children will grow to understand if they don’t already that what he did was courageous and done out of his love for them. He sacrificed himself for his one true love, his children. In doing so, he purposely is making a better way for them. He didn’t leave them behind out of selfishness, but to allow them the chance to live, to grow into caring, considerate, adults with something to offer the world they live in.
I don’t know what Michael is going through, however, I know that he thinks about them every minute he is away from them. I fear that he is sad and obviously unhappy that he had to do it, but coupled with those emotions that he is also content when he sees how well adjusted they have become and continues to be. Loving parents will go against all odds for their children to have what they didn’t have. Michael never had a childhood and he never had real, meaningful, fulfilling love. His children will have all of those things not in spite of but because Michael chose them over self. He made that possible. Michael is a genuis and he is a helluva daddy. I continue to pray for his peace and his well being. I have to believe that he is safe and is watching over us and them somehow. I have to believe that he knows that we are keeping vigil for him, we believe in his plan and that we will never let him part. we don’t judge him for doing what he obviously had to do. Here I must add that Michael will always be my angel and even if I never ever get the chance to see
Hi Souza and all,
I just want to say that "testimony" no matter how bogus, is considered equal evidence, as well. Thankfully, in this case, the evidence was shot down for being crap, but look how ruinous it was, anyway. This is why it is so god-awful DANGEROUS and DAMNING, when people irresponsibly just run their mouths on and on about someone else, and mindlessly REPEAT crap they heard! omg, if we learn only ONE thing from all the dialog and information on this forum, let it be that words can kill, and to THINK before talking about another human being(someone with eyes, a smile, unique thoughts and gifts for the world, a heart, hopes, dreams, and RIGHTS to life, liberty, privacy and property; in other words, the PEACEFUL pursuit of happiness )....
What is a mystery to me is that the entire family wasn't prosecuted as follow up. MJ did nothing wrong. It simply chafed at some peoples' parenting, that MJ was so much nicer to other peoples' kids than they were, so they "just knew" there had to be an ulterior motive in the single grown man's heart... Fools. There certainly was enough evidence (testimony from previous marks) that these family members are career criminals, with the parent indoctrinating <!-- s:x -->:x<!-- s:x --> the children!!
We train people how to treat us, and I think if there are never any consequences to their actions, they will repeat their scams again and again. THE loving thing, protecting others, and a lesson for any others with the same mind (targeting MJ), would have been to take advantage of the laws of the land and hold those people accountable for their actions. Some people NEVER learn and are bent on evil, but at least those kids would have had some POSITIVE input into their character development, by directive of the Court, other than their twisted mother's work ethic. It is unfortunate, because now, IDK, they probably just think, "well this scam wasn't as successful as we wanted, darn it", and view it as a challenge to perfect their "craft" in future. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
But, yeah, testimony is evidence...is THAT scary for ya? Tell me about it. <!-- safraid/ -->afraid/<!-- safraid/ --> I am covered with the $#@!, as we speak. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
We are challenging nonbelievers but we don't welcome them. A nonbeliever came in chatroom and he was mocked so if we want to have a conversation with them let's give them a chance and let's treat everybody nice.
I would love to challenge and be challenged, it's good to take a realistic shot from different sides. Talking only to people who share the same vision is not very relevant.
Nonbelievers , please join this thread and let's have a nice debate in a respectful manner. <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
I never go to any "Michael is dead" forums. I can't stand all those heartbreaking posts. But that's just me and that's no way anti-welcoming. I was just wondering.
And Iam lying right now lol. I forgot, I do visit one. The MJJCommunity. But I have my own reasons for it ( not arguing!lol ) and I never post on there.
LOL, I LOVED that.
Katherine shopping at
buying
SLEEPING
Bags.
(not sheets)
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/35298192/ns/today-entertainment/t/jacksons-doctor-return-court-april/
Remember the overall and pervading S.L.E.E.P. theme?
<!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ --> Lady Katherine. Blessings to all.