What defines your reality? Records entered by a minimum wage worker on a website?
What defines yours? Cryptical messages from anonymus sources and clues that we might never know if they were clues?
Don't get me wrong, just like i take all theories as possible i have to be pragmatic and looks at facts too.
Balance is the key.
And if this trial is hoaxed why was it started in the first place? For a FBI sting operation you might answer. But how do you know that for sure? All our assumptions are bound with other assumptions to fix in the right place. If one goes down it's domino. What would you say if would find FBI is not in on hoax? Would you believe Michael is dead?
What defines your reality? Records entered by a minimum wage worker on a website?
What defines yours? Cryptical messages from anonymus sources and clues that we might never know if they were clues?
Don't get me wrong, just like i take all theories as possible i can't dismiss facts.
Common sense and logic which are the same things that cause me to determine from all the information available that MJ is not dead.
If it's a hoax court then why would the FBI be involved? Maybe the investigation of corruption is for the LAPD? I'm so unsure of all that...and these toys in the courtroom <!-- sconfused/ -->confused/<!-- sconfused/ -->
I want everyone ranting at TS for not knowing the trial would be delayed, to reread his post. I will quote some of it:
We are also at the point, which I mentioned earlier, of running two different coherent theories in parallel. And as we try to put all the pieces together—including the research of previous levels, as well as the new information that we will get during the hearings—hopefully one of the two theories will fall into place, and the other one will fall apart.
[...]
Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the hearings; there will be other threads for that purpose.
So was TS unaware of the fact that the trial would be delayed, or did he actually tell you a day before the mainstream media did? Here is the definition of a hearing:
In law, a hearing is a proceeding before a court or other decision-making body or officer, such as a government agency.
A hearing is generally distinguished from a trial in that it is usually shorter and often less formal. In the course of litigation, hearings are conducted as oral arguments in support of motions, whether to resolve the case without further trial on a motion to dismiss or for summary judgment, or to decide discrete issues of law, such as the admissibility of evidence, that will determine how the trial proceeds. Limited evidence and testimony may also be presented in hearings to supplement the legal arguments.
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_(law<!-- m -->)
He didn't say: "as well as the new information that we will get during the trial" or "Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the trial"
Is TS unaware of the definition of "hearing"? I don't think so. I think people jumped to conclusions too fast...again.
And why would a trial delay surprise anyone? Everything has been delayed a gazillion times, this shouldn't be a shocker. Why have a trial with 12 jury members, having to leave their jobs for weeks for a bogus trial? People and press attending the hearings do so voluntarily, jury members would not. That is why it has been delayed again and in my opinion probably will never start.
That said, I can finally comment on the actual topic in my next post.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Okay, to me this quote of TS
TS wrote:We are also at the point, which I mentioned earlier, of running two different coherent theories in parallel. And as we try to put all the pieces together—including the research of previous levels, as well as the new information that we will get during the hearings—hopefully one of the two theories will fall into place, and the other one will fall apart. Is saying...
"Two different theories"...as in the theory of their being corruption in the past trial by SB, "running along side" , on this metaphor of the murray trial.
"The research of the previous"..corruption of previous trial, as well as "the new information" the new trial which will clear the "previous info"..."during the hearings"
"the two theories will then fall into place"....<!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
and the "other" old corruption trial "will fall apart".
Thus paving the road for Michael to return.
JUST MY OPINION
Wow! You go Souza. Teach! Like you, see, I'd rather be WISE than CLEVER. <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->
I think the court thing is really intriguing. The Court of Last Resort. The Court of Public Opinion. The Kangaroo Court. The Truth & Reconciliation Court (South Africa). The Sting Court. The Hoax Court. The King's Court.
I think it will be both. I mean, no one said that this was just a GAME. No one said that this is just a MOVIE. Again, life is a game. Life is a reality film. Just check out all of the staging that was done concerning Bin Laden. The Whole World is a Stage after all.
I think first and foremost, MJ was in it to win it. It being the POWER to be able to hold on to his works (whether that be owning the Beatles catalog - among others or not), because even though he Acquired the catalogs, it was still an act of his Working to get it done. If someone was still trying to ply it out of his sweet huge hands, then that would have been enough to engage in a sting operation.
Because I also believe that MJ is doing an ARG/Movie, I think it could also be a hoax court. After all TS, if it is not a HOAX COURT, then what are we doing here? Is this a hoax or not? Did MJ hoax/fake his "death" or not? Is this hoax a continuation of Gilda or not? And on and on.
Also, I hear people talking about Chernoff (Doc Murray's lawyer) like he could not be part of the hoax. Remember, the fake patients listed on his website? And the USA (and other countries) at times acts out many of their government issues in the media (stage) like a global reality film, many of these professionals are cross trained in acting (and could be getting paid). Trust! Look now, Arnold S. (ex Cali governor) is thinking about running for President. President Reagan was an actor before Governor and President, so these people believe in acting out. I find all of it odd now in retrospect, and have for many years. It's almost like it is a joke.
And yes, the US court systems are truly kangaroo like - in many instances. Many believe that they aren't any better than third world counties, what with the corruption that has gone on in the past and still continues to this very day. Congress and the Senate are staging areas. Talkin' 'bout kangaroo. And some call us Conspiracy Theorists, when all governments all over the world, along with some in other areas (think religious entities) conspire and have conspired for thousands of years against US human beings. They are the true conspirators. 24/7.
As it pertains to GAME OVER & Alternate Reality Game, Omer's song where he sings - "I NEVER STOPPED PLAYING. I'M ALWAYS IN THE GAME. BEFORE THEY CAME (meaning others new to the ent. industry - Rappers and the like - Justin et al, MJ was here first - and will always be a hit maker). ALONE I FEEL PAIN (he was feeling pain when others weren't - he's paid his dues and more). I'M GIFTED. IT AIN'T HARD TO KNOW (speaks for itself). TIME TO STEP TOGETHER AND GIVE THEM ALL WE OWE (owe = PAYBACK-REVENGE)." Those are MJ's words. Some people say that "this is not a game. And "I don't like playing games. And,"MJ wouldn't play games. MJ wouldn't do this." Please. MJ has done this. It's his game whether some like it or not. The main thing he is trying to convey by this game stuff is this, in my opinion. He is ON TOP of T(HIS) game. It's that simple. It's a slang word. Hasn't he always been on top of his game? I think so.
MJ doesn't need any of our permission in seeking his Revenge or how he goes about it. He's on top of it, and it don't stop ‘til the BAM drops. <!-- smoonwalk_/ -->moonwalk_/<!-- smoonwalk_/ -->
I always love what you have to say, peacock. I recognize you from before... <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ --> (wink). Anyway, you say what you say very well and your knowledge about many things is vast. "Jam" is a good song to think about too. "It ain't too much for" Michael.
In any case, I like this topic. Thanks, TS. I've always believed in the STING. I said that long ago by posting a movie poster from the Redford/Newman movie. Unfortunately, I don't have time to think through this the way I should or share my thoughts now -- I'm still pondering/researching and when I have a break from work, I'll be here to comment and will try to make sense of my theory. (And then debunk it <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ --> )
only those two options <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> can we really prove one or the other of those without considering that it could be real court? just sayin' <!-- smichael-jackson/ -->michael-jackson/<!-- smichael-jackson/ -->
by the way ford , it's been nice knowin' ya <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Sting court would be a real court, but if you mean a court to just try Murray for manslaughter, I can't seem to get my head to accept that. <!-- sgeek/ -->geek/<!-- sgeek/ -->
I think TS didn't know about the delay of the trial because he just wrote that we were very close to the end which is now seems too far away. About the issue if TS can make us believe that he is an insider, there's only one option. I wrote it a year ago. We decide for a secret code and someone PMs it to TS and TS asks the Jacksons to make a tweet with the code we chose. One of the Jacksons make the tweet and BAM! It's that simple to be sure that he has an inside info. When I first wrote it, people told me that TS didn't need to prove anything. But I think after 2 years and after the delayed trial, when our hopes and patience are getting lost, I think we NEED to learn if we have a genuine source.
You believe this is a sting operation, but you also want TS to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is an insider. That really doesn't make sense. He already pointed out to the issue of entrapment. The hoax forums are helpful in that issue BECAUSE WE FIGURED IT OUT, not because someone told us. If TS would prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is who he says he is, people WILL follow him blindly and won't investigate and think for themselves anymore. That would mean people (and new members) will only believe in the hoax because TS tells them there is one. That would qualify as a cover-up for entrapment. Why do you think TS is so careful with his wording? Why do you think he simply can't answer certain questions or confirm things? Think about that. He gave you enough to show you and make you use your common sense to decide for yourself if he is genuine or not. He is not going to give you more than that, simply because he can't.
Yes, you are right Souza. If he proved who he really was like you said people would have followed him blindly. But still he is not spoon feeding us. And also if he proved who he was, I do believe that more people would be here discussing about the hoax. BUT I don't think that the purpose is to take the attention of everyone to the hoax. If it were, everything would have been so much obvious.
I do not see any progress or conclusion at these threads. What happened to the leaf pattern issue that we discussed for pages? Why anyone is asking about this? I still stated my opinion about the trial and I'm not going to repeat myself but I do know that people will start to chase their own tails over and over and this will be named as a "progress". Yes, nobody forced us to read TS' posts and I do appreciate all the info he has given to us. But after some point, it started to look like a distraction tactic to me. And I see that many people who were not forced to read TS' posts started to feel the same like me. And afterall, I do not think that it hurts someone to be sure that TS has genuine information about the hoax. You can be calm and ok for another year or years with the hoax but personally my patience is almost over like most of the others. If Michael is not going to come back, I want to go back to my hoax free life. I'm tired, I'm frustrated, I'm disappointed. I've had migraine in the last 2 years and the headache is killing me. I do not need to count what the hoax has done to me psychologically I think. This lasted so so long and we're all so tired. Well at least most of us. I want it to end and I want to see Michael happy and healthy. And after 2 years I think we deserve an unfold on TS' mystery and his mysterious identity.
No progress? Are you kidding me? Do you think the leaf-pattern is that important, or do you think TS wanted us to dissect the picture to come to the conclusion that it was photoshopped? Yes we already discussed the photoshopped picture, but in this thread we actually PROVED it. That is the progress of thread number 1.
As for thread number 2, we all came to the conclusion that the FBI is involved, backed up again with at least 2 or 3 good arguments. Thread number 3 left us with 2 theories: Real corpse or no boby at all. Lots of pages and we couldn't come to a conclusion. If TS would want to give us all the facts on a silver plate, he would have written plain out how this was done, but see my comment above where I explain why he can't and won't. It was time for a new discussion and maybe this 4th thread might help us solve the third. The basis is already there, the arguments for both sides have been given so as soon as we come to a conclusion for this thread, we have our conclusion for the 3rd as well. It's pieces of a puzzle which will fall into place if you have other pieces in the right place.
No, I'm not kidding you Souza. If the leaf pattern was NOT that important why did we discuss it for 30 pages? We proved the picture was photoshopped, how? With the leaf pattern? We already KNEW the picture was photoshopped and I didn't see we proved it.
For thread 2 NOT all of us came to a conclusion that FBI is involved. Many believers do not agree with that. The FBI and the Sting Operation theories came from TS, people discussed about it, and finally TS wrote in this thread that a couple of FBI agents were involved. How do we know it is a fact? Just bacause TS writes it, makes it a fact? What did we find our own? Were we going to find out that the FBI was involved and this is a Sting Operation if TS never told it to us? No conclusion or progress came from us. TS has already given us what we needed to discuss and the result came from him again on a silver plate! We do NOT come to ANY conclusions Souza. Everybody state their opinions and most of the people stick with their opinions. This is NOT a conclusion or a progress. I do not see talking about bushes as a progress either. We are just chasing our own tails. If the purpose is to discuss about these issues, that's ok. But when it is named as a "progress" or a "conclusion" it pisses me off because there is nothing like that. We're just discussing these issues. I'm NOT saying to discuss these topics is a bad idea or I'm not asking why we're discussing these but they are not taking us to a conclusion UNLESS TS writes it like he did in this thread about the FBI agents were involved.
PureLove, did I not ask to take this discussion elsewhere?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
We are also at the point, which I mentioned earlier, of running two different coherent theories in parallel. And as we try to put all the pieces together—including the research of previous levels, as well as the new information that we will get during the hearings—hopefully one of the two theories will fall into place, and the other one will fall apart.
[...]
Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the hearings; there will be other threads for that purpose.
So was TS unaware of the fact that the trial would be delayed, or did he actually tell you a day before the mainstream media did?
He didn't say: "as well as the new information that we will get during the trial" or "Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the trial"
Nice one! As always, TS chooses his words VERY carefully!
only those two options <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> can we really prove one or the other of those without considering that it could be real court? just sayin' <!-- smichael-jackson/ -->michael-jackson/<!-- smichael-jackson/ -->
by the way ford , it's been nice knowin' ya <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Sting court would be a real court, but if you mean a court to just try Murray for manslaughter, I can't seem to get my head to accept that. <!-- sgeek/ -->geek/<!-- sgeek/ -->
i guess what i worry about is that a hoax could be in real court also if it is not michael's hoax.i am full aware that i am alone on that thought but i can't ditch it. so there you have it . didn't say i think he is dead though , just to be sure i am understood. i do have a gut feeling that some authorities are at least awar of what is goin on and watching if not fully engaged in it. call me crazy i can't help it . <!-- smj_dance/ -->mj_dance/<!-- smj_dance/ -->
I go with hoax court, when I take the personal vendetta into account. MJ was prosecuted by the Santa Barbara District Attorney, not the Los Angeles District Attorney. So in that case it would have made more sense for him to move back to Neverland and die in Santa Barbara, instead of Los Angeles.
I think this sting is focussing on more than one person/agency/doctor/entity, Sneddon being one of them and I also think the sting was going on before June 25. But I don't think the LA court is the focus and I also don't think this trial will ever take place. I do think that the court case has a purpose for the sting, but I am not sure yet how. Any hints TS?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Remember this .............. <!-- selvis_/ -->elvis_/<!-- selvis_/ -->
lovemj4everandever wrote:
I have researched this extensively and would like to share this here because I don't even flinch regarding Conrad Murray being "charged", so perhaps this will put some other minds at ease regarding his "charge of involuntary manslaughter."
Definition of involuntary manslaughter according to CA penal code 192B
Involuntary manslaughter is divided into two categories and they are...
1. Constructive manslaughter
2. Criminally negligent manslaughter
Involuntary manslaughter is charged in ONE of the two categories/divisions listed above...NOT BOTH! The legal terminology used in charging for each of the divisions/categories above is as follows...
1. Constructive manslaughter: "In the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting to felony."
2. Criminally negligent manslaughter: "In the commission of a lawful act which might produce death, in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection."
(Special note...vehicular manslaughter is in a totally separate category).
Moving along...here is the entire "charge" against doc Murray as listed at the DA's website showing him charged BOTH ways in BOTH divisions. Interestingly enough, this is just about the only place the ENTIRE CHARGE can be found. Hundreds of internet articles only list the charge partially, showing him charged in ONE way in ONE division, making it appear legitimate because it can only be charged ONE way in ONE division, not BOTH ways in BOTH divisions.
This is the charge as listed at the DA's website...(I simply copied and pasted it here)
Dr. Conrad Robert Murray, 56 (dob 2-19-1953), was charged in case No. SA073164, filed at the Airport Branch of Los Angeles Superior Court. The count alleged that Murray “ did unlawfully, and without malice, kill Michael Joseph Jackson…in the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting to a felony; AND in the commission of a lawful act which might have produced death, in an unlawful manner, and without due caution and circumspection.”
This clearly shows that he is "charged" BOTH ways, in BOTH divisions. The divisions are separated by the semi-colon above and the word "AND" in bold print. Also, notice that the "or" in the legal definition of division 2 (criminally negligent manslaughter) has been changed to "and" in the charge listed at the DA's website.
Additionally, constructive manslaughter requires a witness to the crime. In this case, the crime would be administering the lethal dose of profofol. We've been told there were no witnesses. So thorough research of the penal code clearly shows that the charge listed at the DA's website is "bogus" and does not exist in reality. It is also interesting that the charge from the DA's website makes a point to say "Michael JOSEPH Jackson" and we know that is not Mike's legal name.
My thinking has been for a very long time, that somehow this is tied into a DEA prescription drug sting and there is a real Dr. Murray (not the guy we see who is a celebrity at TMZ and appears only in staged photo sessions by NPG) but a real Dr. Murray who is perhaps cooperating with or is in trouble with the DEA, combined with Michael's/The Jacksons cooperation for a prescription drug sting operation. It is also extremely interesting to note that on 02/08/10, the reading of the "charge" by the judge was waived by Murray and Chernoff and was not filmed, broadcast or released to the public in any way. There had to be a reason for this because the "reading of the charge" is more than customary. If you go back and look at the TMZ video of that day in court, you will clearly see that Murray and Chernoff waived the reading of the charge and the DA has never made a public statement on camera about the "charge" which is highly unusual when the most famous and beloved person in the world has been "murdered." The DA always makes a statement on camera in such cases. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
So, I have never lost a moment's sleep or an ounce of faith about the hoax due to the "charge" against doc Murray. I have no idea what the deal is with the DA. If Mike is aiding in a prescription drug sting operation or what...but the charge listed at the DA's website does not LEGALLY EXIST according to penal code 192b.
About June 14th, remember, this is just a preliminary hearing. At the preliminary hearing, the judge ALONE will decide whether or not there is enough evidence to support the criminal complaint to proceed with a trial. In my estimation, the case will eventually be dismissed due to lack of evidence (of course, because Mike is alive and well). Of course, June 14th may even be postponed but eventually there is going to be a preliminary hearing at which time the judge will decide whether to proceed with the case or dismiss it. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
[...]
ADDENDUM: And for those who love to "really dig and investigate" here is the link to the DA's website. Notice how on ALL other press releases, the headline title says "man charged with stabbing" "man charged with robbery" "man charged with murder", etc. But on 02/08/10, the headline simply says "Jackson Physician Charged" - it doesn't say with what in the headline title. Then, for a thorough comparison, click on ALL the other links there where someone is charged with "murder or involuntary manslaughter" and read the press release. You will see a significant difference in the way those presses are worded. They ALL simply say charged with "involuntary manslaughter or charged with murder." They do not go into detail with the legal terminology as described above in doc Murray's case. In my estimation, this is just Michael's way again of leading us to the truth. He made sure they listed the "entire charge" with it's complete "legal terminology" so that we could investigate, research, and find the "truth." It can't be charged BOTH ways/BOTH divisions, it is either/or. We would have never known this if the "legal terminology and entire charge were not listed." In other words, if it just said charged with "involuntary manslaugher" as ALL other press releases do, we would not have been able to research. He always leads us to the "truth" amidst the "lie." Another example, we know he is not 5'9" and 136 pounds. He always gives us something to beLIEve in. I'm a 100000000000% beLIEver. I'm unshakable! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I first wondered if the FBI was involved when I saw Marlon with the FBI cap on in the car with Randy a couple of days after 6-25-09 (and he had on hat in the Jackson Family Dynasty show). Many thought that MJ was in back seat. Did the Brothers just come from picking MJ up? Someone posted that MJ was at the house for two days until his brothers picked him up (he was hiding they thought). I wonder now if they were picking him up from Beverly Hills Hotel. But if they were, where were his bodyguards? I suppose he didn't need them if he was hiding in "plain sight."
Matter-of-fact, the brothers wore some of the same pieces of clothing on the JFD show that we'd seen them wear before the show aired. So, I've always thought that the JFD show is a part of the hoax, because in 2008, they did the Jacksons Are Coming Doc. It all ties in, so we need to keep connecting the dots.
May haps, that's something we can do like a puzzle. Connect the dots, and if they don't fit, then we must acquit. The first dot would be may haps the "Michael Jackson has died" hoax from December 2008? The next dot would be seeing MJ unmask his children, then him and the children with Kenny at Culver City studios?
I always thought that when we see the children arrive sleeping in the car to the FUNERAL (???), that they were returning from somewhere else. Where in the world had those children been to where they'd take a nap (it was dark when they arrived) before arriving from wherever to wherever? That doesn't make any sense. You mean to tell me that they needed to nap upon leaving the Encino home to the long drive to Forest Lawn? Green Screened from the Green Man?
It could have been a sting operation in the beginning, but because I think Murray's character represents MJ, it could just be based on something that had happened months or years before (sting operation), but because it was a part of MJ's real life, he decided to add it to his film. So that could mean that he is telling a story. Papa Joe mentioning doubles to me signalled that he could have been referring to an aspect of MJ's life.
So in essence, is MJ doing a documentary film based on parts of his life? Like an expose perhaps, or a sort of Bio based around his previous trial (and can't forget the 1st fraud of accusations)?
"I'm all over the place boy. You can't STOP me." <!-- smj_bad/ -->mj_bad/<!-- smj_bad/ --> This to me means that MJ has all kinds of protection.
"They're coming to take me away - ha-ha." I'll admit, I get dizzy sometimes, but I keep hanging on in here. <!-- sbeerchug -->beerchug<!-- sbeerchug -->
I go with hoax court, when I take the personal vendetta into account. MJ was prosecuted by the Santa Barbara District Attorney, not the Los Angeles District Attorney. So in that case it would have made more sense for him to move back to Neverland and die in Santa Barbara, instead of Los Angeles.
I think this sting is focussing on more than one person/agency/doctor/entity, Sneddon being one of them and I also think the sting was going on before June 25. But I don't think the LA court is the focus and I also don't think this trial will ever take place. I do think that the court case has a purpose for the sting, but I am not sure yet how. Any hints TS?
I had wondered about LA court vs Santa Barbara court. It makes sense that if the focus was a personal vendetta, it would have to be Santa Barbara. Perhaps they worked closely enough with the LA court, that this where the main corruption took place. Was there more than just Santa Barbara police involved on the raid at Neverland? I will look around.....outta time for now. Thanks for bringing this point up.....back later!
I want everyone ranting at TS for not knowing the trial would be delayed, to reread his post. I will quote some of it:
We are also at the point, which I mentioned earlier, of running two different coherent theories in parallel. And as we try to put all the pieces together—including the research of previous levels, as well as the new information that we will get during the hearings—hopefully one of the two theories will fall into place, and the other one will fall apart.
[...]
Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the hearings; there will be other threads for that purpose.
So was TS unaware of the fact that the trial would be delayed, or did he actually tell you a day before the mainstream media did? Here is the definition of a hearing:
In law, a hearing is a proceeding before a court or other decision-making body or officer, such as a government agency.
A hearing is generally distinguished from a trial in that it is usually shorter and often less formal. In the course of litigation, hearings are conducted as oral arguments in support of motions, whether to resolve the case without further trial on a motion to dismiss or for summary judgment, or to decide discrete issues of law, such as the admissibility of evidence, that will determine how the trial proceeds. Limited evidence and testimony may also be presented in hearings to supplement the legal arguments.
<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_(law<!-- m -->)
He didn't say: "as well as the new information that we will get during the trial" or "Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the trial"
Is TS unaware of the definition of "hearing"? I don't think so. I think people jumped to conclusions too fast...again.
And why would a trial delay surprise anyone? Everything has been delayed a gazillion times, this shouldn't be a shocker. Why have a trial with 12 jury members, having to leave their jobs for weeks for a bogus trial? People and press attending the hearings do so voluntarily, jury members would not. That is why it has been delayed again and in my opinion probably will never start.
That said, I can finally comment on the actual topic in my next post.
Ok, Souza. I did confusion over the term hearing and trial. You told me this today in the chat, but I had already placed my last post here.
My mind is spinning with this court's history. Yesterday I posted this as a question:
by AnaMarcia "Mon May 02, 2011 8:02 pm
"This discussion Proposed by TS May Have something to the delay with this?Just think the coincidence one day before the announcement of the postponement of the trial".
But nobody answered me.
Rereading the posts of TS, I figured the discussion on this level could be a sign on the news of the postponement. Now I know that he told hearings, so it became clearer to me.
Maybe he was warning us that there would be only hearings and not the trial itself, which would begin in a few days.
Perhaps I was hasty. I do not like to condemn anyone, but this story is sometimes very difficult. The Intelligence of Michael is unbeatable. Do not think me stupid, but do not compare myself to the genius and to experience from him.
I Hope that, like TS said, things begin to come together. We have a hearing in the next four weeks, is not it? Wait and see what happens! <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
Could everything that's intended to be accomplished be accomplished in 'hearings' rather than a 'trial'? Is there actually any need for a trial, if this is about corruption in the legal system and not about Murray at all?
Hmm, I've been thinking the trial was an essential part of the hoax, but now I'm not so sure.
For those who doubt and are giving up, please remember that it takes four years for Michael to release an album. Each solo album of his is four years apart. Two years and people are giving up? Did you ever believe completely to begin with?? I have had the sickening thought that MJ was murdered for a full year until I began to wonder if he were in fact still alive. It took me another year to actually join a group of people that felt as I do. BeLIEve it or not, joining this forum was a very difficult decision for me. I didn't want to be sidetracked from a possible murder case if my gut feeling was wrong. I have no idea who this TS character is, and I often find myself even more confused after I read his threads. But that doesn't discourage me because I know the truth HAS to come out eventually, no matter how right or wrong something feels or looks to us. I meditate a lot just to feel balance and harmony in my life.
As for this being a sting operation, this is the good ol' USA and these types of cases are very common and I would be very happy to know MJ is involved in bringing down the core of all that is corrupt with our judical system here in the states. This is by far the most interesting thread TS has started, in my opinion. Some of you are a bit skeptical about, well, everything it seems. And I like that, its Yin to my Yan because I'm a bit naive sometimes. I trust that most people on here have good intentions when presenting 'evidence'. I do wish that TS were more present, but maybe thats not his/her role to be buddies with us. And maybe its not his/her role to hold our hands through eveything. I'm just happy that there is new info everyday, instead of every blue moon. As for the trial being pushed to September: <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> I'll be patient for you, MJ.
And if this trial is hoaxed why was it started in the first place?
EXACTLY!
For a FBI sting operation you might answer. But how do you know that for sure? All our assumptions are bound with other assumptions to fix in the right place.
Comments
What defines yours? Cryptical messages from anonymus sources and clues that we might never know if they were clues?
Don't get me wrong, just like i take all theories as possible i have to be pragmatic and looks at facts too.
Balance is the key.
And if this trial is hoaxed why was it started in the first place? For a FBI sting operation you might answer. But how do you know that for sure? All our assumptions are bound with other assumptions to fix in the right place. If one goes down it's domino. What would you say if would find FBI is not in on hoax? Would you believe Michael is dead?
Common sense and logic which are the same things that cause me to determine from all the information available that MJ is not dead.
I want everyone ranting at TS for not knowing the trial would be delayed, to reread his post. I will quote some of it:
So was TS unaware of the fact that the trial would be delayed, or did he actually tell you a day before the mainstream media did? Here is the definition of a hearing:
He didn't say: "as well as the new information that we will get during the trial" or "Please do not let this thread become the primary discussion for all the things that happen during the trial"
Is TS unaware of the definition of "hearing"? I don't think so. I think people jumped to conclusions too fast...again.
And why would a trial delay surprise anyone? Everything has been delayed a gazillion times, this shouldn't be a shocker. Why have a trial with 12 jury members, having to leave their jobs for weeks for a bogus trial? People and press attending the hearings do so voluntarily, jury members would not. That is why it has been delayed again and in my opinion probably will never start.
That said, I can finally comment on the actual topic in my next post.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."TS wrote:We are also at the point, which I mentioned earlier, of running two different coherent theories in parallel. And as we try to put all the pieces together—including the research of previous levels, as well as the new information that we will get during the hearings—hopefully one of the two theories will fall into place, and the other one will fall apart.
Is saying...
"Two different theories"...as in the theory of their being corruption in the past trial by SB, "running along side" , on this metaphor of the murray trial.
"The research of the previous"..corruption of previous trial, as well as "the new information" the new trial which will clear the "previous info"..."during the hearings"
"the two theories will then fall into place"....<!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
and the "other" old corruption trial "will fall apart".
Thus paving the road for Michael to return.
JUST MY OPINION
I always love what you have to say, peacock. I recognize you from before... <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ --> (wink). Anyway, you say what you say very well and your knowledge about many things is vast. "Jam" is a good song to think about too. "It ain't too much for" Michael.
In any case, I like this topic. Thanks, TS. I've always believed in the STING. I said that long ago by posting a movie poster from the Redford/Newman movie. Unfortunately, I don't have time to think through this the way I should or share my thoughts now -- I'm still pondering/researching and when I have a break from work, I'll be here to comment and will try to make sense of my theory. (And then debunk it <!-- sargue/ -->argue/<!-- sargue/ --> )
Peace. <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
Yes, you are right Souza. If he proved who he really was like you said people would have followed him blindly. But still he is not spoon feeding us. And also if he proved who he was, I do believe that more people would be here discussing about the hoax. BUT I don't think that the purpose is to take the attention of everyone to the hoax. If it were, everything would have been so much obvious.
No, I'm not kidding you Souza. If the leaf pattern was NOT that important why did we discuss it for 30 pages? We proved the picture was photoshopped, how? With the leaf pattern? We already KNEW the picture was photoshopped and I didn't see we proved it.
For thread 2 NOT all of us came to a conclusion that FBI is involved. Many believers do not agree with that. The FBI and the Sting Operation theories came from TS, people discussed about it, and finally TS wrote in this thread that a couple of FBI agents were involved. How do we know it is a fact? Just bacause TS writes it, makes it a fact? What did we find our own? Were we going to find out that the FBI was involved and this is a Sting Operation if TS never told it to us? No conclusion or progress came from us. TS has already given us what we needed to discuss and the result came from him again on a silver plate! We do NOT come to ANY conclusions Souza. Everybody state their opinions and most of the people stick with their opinions. This is NOT a conclusion or a progress. I do not see talking about bushes as a progress either. We are just chasing our own tails. If the purpose is to discuss about these issues, that's ok. But when it is named as a "progress" or a "conclusion" it pisses me off because there is nothing like that. We're just discussing these issues. I'm NOT saying to discuss these topics is a bad idea or I'm not asking why we're discussing these but they are not taking us to a conclusion UNLESS TS writes it like he did in this thread about the FBI agents were involved.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Whatever Souza. Everything is so obvious and there is no need to discuss about it. I gave my reply to you as you quoted my post. That's it.
Nice one! As always, TS chooses his words VERY carefully!
http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=16085&start=75#p328073
I think this sting is focussing on more than one person/agency/doctor/entity, Sneddon being one of them and I also think the sting was going on before June 25. But I don't think the LA court is the focus and I also don't think this trial will ever take place. I do think that the court case has a purpose for the sting, but I am not sure yet how. Any hints TS?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Matter-of-fact, the brothers wore some of the same pieces of clothing on the JFD show that we'd seen them wear before the show aired. So, I've always thought that the JFD show is a part of the hoax, because in 2008, they did the Jacksons Are Coming Doc. It all ties in, so we need to keep connecting the dots.
May haps, that's something we can do like a puzzle. Connect the dots, and if they don't fit, then we must acquit. The first dot would be may haps the "Michael Jackson has died" hoax from December 2008? The next dot would be seeing MJ unmask his children, then him and the children with Kenny at Culver City studios?
I always thought that when we see the children arrive sleeping in the car to the FUNERAL (???), that they were returning from somewhere else. Where in the world had those children been to where they'd take a nap (it was dark when they arrived) before arriving from wherever to wherever? That doesn't make any sense. You mean to tell me that they needed to nap upon leaving the Encino home to the long drive to Forest Lawn? Green Screened from the Green Man?
<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiFT4BDR0iA<!-- m -->
It could have been a sting operation in the beginning, but because I think Murray's character represents MJ, it could just be based on something that had happened months or years before (sting operation), but because it was a part of MJ's real life, he decided to add it to his film. So that could mean that he is telling a story. Papa Joe mentioning doubles to me signalled that he could have been referring to an aspect of MJ's life.
So in essence, is MJ doing a documentary film based on parts of his life? Like an expose perhaps, or a sort of Bio based around his previous trial (and can't forget the 1st fraud of accusations)?
"I'm all over the place boy. You can't STOP me." <!-- smj_bad/ -->mj_bad/<!-- smj_bad/ --> This to me means that MJ has all kinds of protection.
"They're coming to take me away - ha-ha." I'll admit, I get dizzy sometimes, but I keep hanging on in here. <!-- sbeerchug -->beerchug<!-- sbeerchug -->
I had wondered about LA court vs Santa Barbara court. It makes sense that if the focus was a personal vendetta, it would have to be Santa Barbara. Perhaps they worked closely enough with the LA court, that this where the main corruption took place. Was there more than just Santa Barbara police involved on the raid at Neverland? I will look around.....outta time for now. Thanks for bringing this point up.....back later!
Blessings
Ok, Souza. I did confusion over the term hearing and trial. You told me this today in the chat, but I had already placed my last post here.
My mind is spinning with this court's history. Yesterday I posted this as a question:
by AnaMarcia "Mon May 02, 2011 8:02 pm
"This discussion Proposed by TS May Have something to the delay with this?Just think the coincidence one day before the announcement of the postponement of the trial".
But nobody answered me.
Rereading the posts of TS, I figured the discussion on this level could be a sign on the news of the postponement. Now I know that he told hearings, so it became clearer to me.
Maybe he was warning us that there would be only hearings and not the trial itself, which would begin in a few days.
Perhaps I was hasty. I do not like to condemn anyone, but this story is sometimes very difficult. The Intelligence of Michael is unbeatable. Do not think me stupid, but do not compare myself to the genius and to experience from him.
I Hope that, like TS said, things begin to come together. We have a hearing in the next four weeks, is not it? Wait and see what happens! <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
Could everything that's intended to be accomplished be accomplished in 'hearings' rather than a 'trial'? Is there actually any need for a trial, if this is about corruption in the legal system and not about Murray at all?
Hmm, I've been thinking the trial was an essential part of the hoax, but now I'm not so sure.
As for this being a sting operation, this is the good ol' USA and these types of cases are very common and I would be very happy to know MJ is involved in bringing down the core of all that is corrupt with our judical system here in the states. This is by far the most interesting thread TS has started, in my opinion. Some of you are a bit skeptical about, well, everything it seems. And I like that, its Yin to my Yan because I'm a bit naive sometimes. I trust that most people on here have good intentions when presenting 'evidence'. I do wish that TS were more present, but maybe thats not his/her role to be buddies with us. And maybe its not his/her role to hold our hands through eveything. I'm just happy that there is new info everyday, instead of every blue moon. As for the trial being pushed to September: <!-- spale/ -->pale/<!-- spale/ --> I'll be patient for you, MJ.
Sting operation does not go along with hoax.
yes