Ok, here's one from the HIStory era. I can't help but have doubts. Upper lip too low, chin too short, eyes don't match. I'll leave it up to you.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Maybe the upper lip looks lower because the nose is different? I'm not sure, just throwin that out there...
I really, really am trying to be open minded about the possibility of doubles, but I'm not really convinced. In my opinion that is Michael, as well as the others discussed in this particular thread.
Maybe the upper lip looks lower because the nose is different? I'm not sure, just throwin that out there...
I really, really am trying to be open minded about the possibility of doubles, but I'm not really convinced. In my opinion that is Michael, as well as the others discussed in this particular thread.
Nope, the nose is already different in the BAD era, and they do match. They eyes are too big as well, the 'hang' more. Like I said, I have doubts, I am not 100% sure but to me it's not a match. And the others I posted in the first post, all match.
@awesome1, that would be right for the bottom lip, not the upper lip.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I know what this thread it's about, but would you mind posting some random pics of the man you say is not Michael (from all Eras you've found doubles), please? Not comparing, just the pics.
Thanks, it would be very much appreciated.
(Maybe is not a good idea post them here because people may get confused.)
the more i look at the upper lip i can see a tiny fraction of a difference its very slightly lower, but it may look that way because of the nose and other work that he would have had done, which would also explain the chin....
Maybe the upper lip looks lower because the nose is different? I'm not sure, just throwin that out there...
I really, really am trying to be open minded about the possibility of doubles, but I'm not really convinced. In my opinion that is Michael, as well as the others discussed in this particular thread.
Nope, the nose is already different in the BAD era, and they do match. They eyes are too big as well, the 'hang' more. Like I said, I have doubts, I am not 100% sure but to me it's not a match. And the others I posted in the first post, all match.
@awesome1, that would be right for the bottom lip, not the upper lip.
In the BAD era picture it looks like compared to the first picture, the upper lip is lower down than the first picture on page one as well. I also don't think that the noses look very similar even with the BAD era picture compared to this one.
I know what this thread it's about, but would you mind posting some random pics of the man you say is not Michael (from all Eras you've found doubles), please? Not comparing, just the pics.
Thanks, it would be very much appreciated.
(Maybe is not a good idea post them here because people may get confused.)
I'll get to that later on.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
The difference in the eyes shape can occure after the eye lid (upper or lower) surgery.... It can be a real change in shape or only a visual one... please check the links below for more info...
hmmm... the pic in the yellow shirt..can you compare it to the one from the HIStory era? I would do it but I dnt know how <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
please and thank you...
... a lot to think about now
@Souza I think it's all a double with a prosthetic mask on.
You are seriously starting to annoy me Raven, I ask a serious question here. You can either answer in a normal way, or stay away from the double threads.
This is not a double thread.
Why is it annoying...as I'm doing the same you did.
When I said it was Michael himself you also replied it was a double with a mask on, and I also noted along the lines it started to become annoying. What's the difference?
The difference is that I compare pics and you just say "It's Michael Jackson". O2 dude can't be compared, we have no eyes. If try to compare O2 dude's mouth is already too wide. A good comparison is impossible with the glasses on.
I am done with people like you just 'stating their opinion', ridiculing others without any arguments. I had the discussion with mykidsmum as well, but she at least posts her own comparisons. You are only stirring the threads up. If you don't think there were doubles and you will not contribute to the thread proving us wrong, just stay away from these threads.
'Nuff said...
Ow I've given enough arguments, it's not true what you say. I've mentioned the scar near his lower lip. I've mentioned scars on his chin. I've mentioned the scar on his cheek. I've reposted a picture of yours that you used for comparison in black and white you couldn't get to match because it was in mirror-image. But you've all done away with them as 'that can be artificially added' or 'it's a prosthetic mask'.
Yes, because it's POSSIBLE nowadays, but you just ignored that and went on with sarcastic remarks. That's the last thing I will say about it, since this discussion is not the issue here. I am awaiting your comparisons...
I don't need to proof anything here. If you claim someone is not Michael, the burden of evidence is yours. I've also explained in the very beginning that IMO it's disrespectful towards Michael publically examining his face to the microscopic level the way you are doing, he would have HATED it, so that is another reason I won't do any comparisons. I've mentioned that plastic surgery is good nowadays (as is prosthetic make-up), but NOT to the detailed extent some people in here suggest.
Other contributions you've ignored: I've explained that if the jaw moves with the lips closed the chin appears longer. I've explained that if the head is tilted forward the length of the chin visually appears shorter and the forehead appears longer on photo due to the 3D effect. So that whole remark of yours "I am done with people like you just 'stating their opinion', ridiculing others without any arguments." is just totally untrue.
hmmm... the pic in the yellow shirt..can you compare it to the one from the HIStory era? I would do it but I dnt know how <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
please and thank you...
... a lot to think about now
I'll try or I'll think of something else. Hold on.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
@Souza I think it's all a double with a prosthetic mask on.
You are seriously starting to annoy me Raven, I ask a serious question here. You can either answer in a normal way, or stay away from the double threads.
This is not a double thread.
Why is it annoying...as I'm doing the same you did.
When I said it was Michael himself you also replied it was a double with a mask on, and I also noted along the lines it started to become annoying. What's the difference?
The difference is that I compare pics and you just say "It's Michael Jackson". O2 dude can't be compared, we have no eyes. If try to compare O2 dude's mouth is already too wide. A good comparison is impossible with the glasses on.
I am done with people like you just 'stating their opinion', ridiculing others without any arguments. I had the discussion with mykidsmum as well, but she at least posts her own comparisons. You are only stirring the threads up. If you don't think there were doubles and you will not contribute to the thread proving us wrong, just stay away from these threads.
'Nuff said...
Ow I've given enough arguments, it's not true what you say. I've mentioned the scar near his lower lip. I've mentioned scars on his chin. I've mentioned the scar on his cheek. I've reposted a picture of yours that you used for comparison in black and white you couldn't get to match because it was in mirror-image. But you've all done away with them as 'that can be artificially added' or 'it's a prosthetic mask'.
Yes, because it's POSSIBLE nowadays, but you just ignored that and went on with sarcastic remarks. That's the last thing I will say about it, since this discussion is not the issue here. I am awaiting your comparisons...
I don't need to proof anything here. If you claim someone is not Michael, the burden of evidence is yours. I've also explained in the very beginning that IMO it's disrespectful towards Michael publically examining his face to the microscopic level the way you are doing, he would have HATED it, so that is another reason I won't do any comparisons. I've mentioned that plastic surgery is good nowadays (as is prosthetic make-up), but NOT to the detailed extent some people in here suggest.
Other contributions you've ignored: I've explained that if the jaw moves with the lips closed the chin appears longer. I've explained that if the head is tilted forward the length of the chin visually appears shorter and the forehead appears longer on photo due to the 3D effect. So that whole remark of yours "I am done with people like you just 'stating their opinion', ridiculing others without any arguments." is just totally untrue.
I totally agree with you about it being disrespectful towards MJ.
Being a singer, dancer, and all around brilliant entertainer was MJ's job. And he worked very hard at his job. Yes, I'm sure he, like many other entertainers, had look a-likes to deter fans and allow him to safely exit various venues when the crowds were too large and stunt doubles to perform stunts that were too dangerous for him to do on his own (like flying over a concert crowd with a jet pack). But to suggest that it was not him performing at his own concerts is absolutely disrespectful. He worked hard to create the biggest selling album of all time. He worked hard to create music that actually had meaning. And he worked exceptionally hard to make sure that his concerts were perfect so that his fans would have the greatest experience possible. Don't try to take that away from him.
Real Deal, I think.
I made a new gif and put red lines at the chin line and bottom lip line - only very small discrepancies, imho due to different facial expression and make up.
for people that think that he wouldnt use a double at a concert and disappoint his fans... wouldnt you think he used a double so no to disappoint his fans if he wasnt able to perform... (not talking about TII)
To me it's really interesting how different people's perceptions of something can be, it's really fascinating. The YANA pic is def Michael (my opnion). Many have stated that "it's all in the eyes" and I agree (plus face expressions and more...). If you look at the actual shape of the eyes, and ignore the eyeliner (which can make eyes appear way different) and the fact that he's smiling in one pic and looking serious in the other, one can clearly see they're the same. We all know that smiling and laughing can make eyes look different, as well as other facial features, e.g. cheeks, nose, mouth etc.
Studying Michael's face is almost like studying one of my family member's face (slight exaggeration <!-- s --><!-- s --> ) because he's been apart of my life for as long as I can remember. I think it's understandable that some people that are not actual fans or have only been fans for a short time would question if it is the same person because denying that his looks has changed would be like saying that Sweden is situated in Africa <!-- s --><!-- s --> . Michael is beautiful in every era and to me it's not just because his Michael, it's also becasue of those unique features/characteristics of his face and body that are only his.
I am done. I think I have stated MULTIPLE times that this is a HAOX INVESTIGATION site and that I am not a fan. If you don't like that, I suggest a fanforum. I am here to unravel a mystery. That does not mean I am disrespectful, it means I want to know why he used doubles and what role doubles might have played in his life, the good way or the bad way. I think I have proved many times that I respect the man very much.
For those that still want to put a lot of work in this, good luck. I'm through.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
You are absolutely correct..It is disrespectful to Michael. They are comparing pictures of him when he was 17 to 30 something or even older!!!!! Did you not change in appearence over the years? Plus he also had work done.! Give me a break <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
you do change in appearance but not that much in many cases..... like me for example i look at my baby pictures and i really changed a lot over 19 years <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Very impressive morphing job, Souza, well done. The slides are not numbered so my comments are relative to the thread’s ‘page 1’ and ‘page 2’ series.
IMO, I see three different people on page 1..
Profile A
1) Michael’s energy field or aura is that of a soft, warm, intelligence, receptive-giving, pliant
1A) eyes are ‘old soul’, even as a child, deep, deep pools
2) note his slightly ‘rounded’, relaxed shoulders
3) note his earlobes, small lobe, note the V dip away from the facial skin then rounding into a single small lobe close to his head
4) draw an imaginary line from his ear lobe to his nose and note the ear lines up exactly to the tip of his nose
5) note his cranium size balanced size with width of his strong neck
6) note the forward’ tilt of his head
7) note that his nose, lips, jaw are about the same width
8) note the degree of protrusion of the nasal-mouth-jaw, the rise apex to his lips
9) draw an imaginary line from his outer lips to his eyes and the line would meet his eyes about mid-iris
10) note the proportion of his neck relative to his head and the distance between his head to his shoulders
11) frontal view no ‘adam’s apple’ visible
12) note that his neck ends in a pronounced V at his clavicle
13) note the tonal elasticity of the neck skin, no ski folds
Profile B-yellow shirt
1) the energy field or aura is different, the gentle ‘receptive-giving’ aura has changed into a harder, more worldly ‘assessor’, very self-possessed instead of pliant, strong, assured, a hint of arrogance not found in Profile A
1A) the eyes are harder, knowing
2) arms raised, so different posture, not good for comparison
3) ear lobes are different, 2 lobe bumps not seen in Profile A
4) Imaginary line, earlobes lower than tip of his nose
5) jaw line extends beyond neck, so neck appears smaller than Profile A
6) forward tilt matches
7) lips are smaller
8) nasal-lip-jaw protrusion apex is more pronounced
9) imaginary line from outer lip to eye, does not quite meet mid-iris
10) cranium seems elevated on neck stem compared to profile A
11) fontal view, adam’s apple visible
12) clavicle V not as pronounced
13) neck skin is looser, has more skin folds
Profile C-red shirt
1) the energy field is different, more party boy, effervesce, glee, lightness which is antithesis of ‘old soul’
1A) the eyes are elongated compared to Profile A and B
2) shoulders are straight
3) ear lobes are more pointy than rounded
4) ear lobes lower than nose
5) jawline extends beyond the neck
6) no forward tilt of head, more straight line
7) lips are elongated-Compare A and C teeth-two front teeth, then A smile (right side) shows 3 teeth, Profile C smile shows 4 teeth
8) pronounced nasal –lip-jaw apex in B is flattened out in A and C, C jaw more elongated and square than Profiles A or B
9) Imaginary line from lip to iris, line now extends to outside of iris!
10) Cranium definitely elevated on neck stem compared to A and B
11) Bigger, more pronounced adam’s apple than profiles A and B
12) Clavicle V unknown
13) Tight neck, no neck skin folds
Page 2, HIStory Profile D
HIStory matches Profile A perfectly. This is Michael Jackson, perfect match. The distances between lip-nose and eye rounder, etc are due to plastic surgery. Notice the aura-the ‘old soul’, the neck and cranium balance, chin perfect match.
You are correct Souza, this is a Hoax Investigation of his DEATH....Not his PLastic Surgeries.
Well lynn, the funny thing is that you fans all say he changed that much due to plastic surgeries, and Mo and I always said we think he didn't change that much at all, so what were you implying?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Real Deal, I think.
I made a new gif and put red lines at the chin line and bottom lip line - only very small discrepancies, imho due to different facial expression and make up.
I took the long way and shared my step by step analysis with everyone, but, I came to the same conclusion as you!
Exactly.
IMO, this was a useful exercise and settled questions. Thank you, Sousa.
I'm staying out of it this time, it's getting too crazy for me...I will say, Raven, you are correct in what you said about 3-d, prosthetics, plastic surgery, mirror image. I gotta get outa here soon, I just can't force myself to do it. This double's theory thing is getting out of control.
I got in touch with an old friend of mine, at risk of making myself sound like an obsessed idiot, I ran a few question about prosthetics...this is what she had to say. This is what she does.
-she said that unless the persons nose was smaller than MJ's to begin with...there is no way with prosthetics to make a "normal" nose smaller. There is no way to alter the width between the eyes. The eyes have to stay in their sockets and will always be the same.
-There is no way to closely match eye color on close up. Contacts will always appear colored on the surface in close ups and not "within" the eye.
-If you were to "match" a false pair of teeth, they would always be bigger (protrude) or sit lower in the face because of the need to "cover the original teeth"
I don't believe in a double as for the reason why MJ looks different tru the years or between pictures or days or years...I believe in addiction to surgical and not surgical body modification. And all of those of you who believe MJ when he said he "only had two nose jobs"... he also said he believed he could fly and that he is Peter Pan. People who are addicted to things like plastic surgery and drugs and alcohol, won't tell the truth if you say...ok, so how many drinks did you have today, or, what drugs did you do today, I'm sure they will tell you exactly what you wanna know. Come off it. (by the way, I'm not saying MJ is an alcoholic or a druggie, I'm using those addictions as an example) To use myself....if my hubby says how many times did you go to the chip bag last night...I'll say "once!" ba ha ha ha ha
Comments
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I really, really am trying to be open minded about the possibility of doubles, but I'm not really convinced. In my opinion that is Michael, as well as the others discussed in this particular thread.
Nope, the nose is already different in the BAD era, and they do match. They eyes are too big as well, the 'hang' more. Like I said, I have doubts, I am not 100% sure but to me it's not a match. And the others I posted in the first post, all match.
@awesome1, that would be right for the bottom lip, not the upper lip.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."he was beautiful before and after
Thanks, it would be very much appreciated.
(Maybe is not a good idea post them here because people may get confused.)
the eyes are kinda bugging me though.....
In the BAD era picture it looks like compared to the first picture, the upper lip is lower down than the first picture on page one as well. I also don't think that the noses look very similar even with the BAD era picture compared to this one.
I'll get to that later on.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."<!-- m -->http://www.realself.com/question/can-change-eye-shape<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.plasticsurgery90210.com/blep ... d-surgery/<!-- m -->
But in general there are more then one Michael... some have wider smile, some smaller.. different ears, teeth etc.....
<!-- m -->http://www.allure.com/magazine/2009/09/ ... =3#slide=3<!-- m -->
<!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
please and thank you...
... a lot to think about now
Other contributions you've ignored: I've explained that if the jaw moves with the lips closed the chin appears longer. I've explained that if the head is tilted forward the length of the chin visually appears shorter and the forehead appears longer on photo due to the 3D effect. So that whole remark of yours "I am done with people like you just 'stating their opinion', ridiculing others without any arguments." is just totally untrue.
I'll try or I'll think of something else. Hold on.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I totally agree with you about it being disrespectful towards MJ.
Being a singer, dancer, and all around brilliant entertainer was MJ's job. And he worked very hard at his job. Yes, I'm sure he, like many other entertainers, had look a-likes to deter fans and allow him to safely exit various venues when the crowds were too large and stunt doubles to perform stunts that were too dangerous for him to do on his own (like flying over a concert crowd with a jet pack). But to suggest that it was not him performing at his own concerts is absolutely disrespectful. He worked hard to create the biggest selling album of all time. He worked hard to create music that actually had meaning. And he worked exceptionally hard to make sure that his concerts were perfect so that his fans would have the greatest experience possible. Don't try to take that away from him.
I made a new gif and put red lines at the chin line and bottom lip line - only very small discrepancies, imho due to different facial expression and make up.
Studying Michael's face is almost like studying one of my family member's face (slight exaggeration <!-- s
For those that still want to put a lot of work in this, good luck. I'm through.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."IMO, I see three different people on page 1..
Profile A
1) Michael’s energy field or aura is that of a soft, warm, intelligence, receptive-giving, pliant
1A) eyes are ‘old soul’, even as a child, deep, deep pools
2) note his slightly ‘rounded’, relaxed shoulders
3) note his earlobes, small lobe, note the V dip away from the facial skin then rounding into a single small lobe close to his head
4) draw an imaginary line from his ear lobe to his nose and note the ear lines up exactly to the tip of his nose
5) note his cranium size balanced size with width of his strong neck
6) note the forward’ tilt of his head
7) note that his nose, lips, jaw are about the same width
8) note the degree of protrusion of the nasal-mouth-jaw, the rise apex to his lips
9) draw an imaginary line from his outer lips to his eyes and the line would meet his eyes about mid-iris
10) note the proportion of his neck relative to his head and the distance between his head to his shoulders
11) frontal view no ‘adam’s apple’ visible
12) note that his neck ends in a pronounced V at his clavicle
13) note the tonal elasticity of the neck skin, no ski folds
Profile B-yellow shirt
1) the energy field or aura is different, the gentle ‘receptive-giving’ aura has changed into a harder, more worldly ‘assessor’, very self-possessed instead of pliant, strong, assured, a hint of arrogance not found in Profile A
1A) the eyes are harder, knowing
2) arms raised, so different posture, not good for comparison
3) ear lobes are different, 2 lobe bumps not seen in Profile A
4) Imaginary line, earlobes lower than tip of his nose
5) jaw line extends beyond neck, so neck appears smaller than Profile A
6) forward tilt matches
7) lips are smaller
8) nasal-lip-jaw protrusion apex is more pronounced
9) imaginary line from outer lip to eye, does not quite meet mid-iris
10) cranium seems elevated on neck stem compared to profile A
11) fontal view, adam’s apple visible
12) clavicle V not as pronounced
13) neck skin is looser, has more skin folds
Profile C-red shirt
1) the energy field is different, more party boy, effervesce, glee, lightness which is antithesis of ‘old soul’
1A) the eyes are elongated compared to Profile A and B
2) shoulders are straight
3) ear lobes are more pointy than rounded
4) ear lobes lower than nose
5) jawline extends beyond the neck
6) no forward tilt of head, more straight line
7) lips are elongated-Compare A and C teeth-two front teeth, then A smile (right side) shows 3 teeth, Profile C smile shows 4 teeth
8) pronounced nasal –lip-jaw apex in B is flattened out in A and C, C jaw more elongated and square than Profiles A or B
9) Imaginary line from lip to iris, line now extends to outside of iris!
10) Cranium definitely elevated on neck stem compared to A and B
11) Bigger, more pronounced adam’s apple than profiles A and B
12) Clavicle V unknown
13) Tight neck, no neck skin folds
Page 2, HIStory Profile D
HIStory matches Profile A perfectly. This is Michael Jackson, perfect match. The distances between lip-nose and eye rounder, etc are due to plastic surgery. Notice the aura-the ‘old soul’, the neck and cranium balance, chin perfect match.
<!-- s:ugeek: -->:ugeek:<!-- s:ugeek: --> D
Well lynn, the funny thing is that you fans all say he changed that much due to plastic surgeries, and Mo and I always said we think he didn't change that much at all, so what were you implying?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I took the long way and shared my step by step analysis with everyone, but, I came to the same conclusion as you!
Exactly.
IMO, this was a useful exercise and settled questions. Thank you, Sousa.
I got in touch with an old friend of mine, at risk of making myself sound like an obsessed idiot, I ran a few question about prosthetics...this is what she had to say. This is what she does.
-she said that unless the persons nose was smaller than MJ's to begin with...there is no way with prosthetics to make a "normal" nose smaller. There is no way to alter the width between the eyes. The eyes have to stay in their sockets and will always be the same.
-There is no way to closely match eye color on close up. Contacts will always appear colored on the surface in close ups and not "within" the eye.
-If you were to "match" a false pair of teeth, they would always be bigger (protrude) or sit lower in the face because of the need to "cover the original teeth"
I don't believe in a double as for the reason why MJ looks different tru the years or between pictures or days or years...I believe in addiction to surgical and not surgical body modification. And all of those of you who believe MJ when he said he "only had two nose jobs"... he also said he believed he could fly and that he is Peter Pan. People who are addicted to things like plastic surgery and drugs and alcohol, won't tell the truth if you say...ok, so how many drinks did you have today, or, what drugs did you do today, I'm sure they will tell you exactly what you wanna know. Come off it. (by the way, I'm not saying MJ is an alcoholic or a druggie, I'm using those addictions as an example) To use myself....if my hubby says how many times did you go to the chip bag last night...I'll say "once!" ba ha ha ha ha