You are correct Souza, this is a Hoax Investigation of his DEATH....Not his PLastic Surgeries.
Well lynn, the funny thing is that you fans all say he changed that much due to plastic surgeries, and Mo and I always said we think he didn't change that much at all, so what were you implying?
Well, they prefer to think he had a lot of plastic surgeries instead of thinking that he used doubles for some important reason... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I'm not someone who thinks he has lots of surgery at all, and I've always maintained that he barely changed at all- however, I think understanding between hoaxers on this particular topic is kind of murky, not everyone can totally understand how someone else might feel about this doubles and fakes business, so seeing as we don't really understand what this "very important reason" is for sure yet, could you please try to be more understanding of other hoaxer's feelings on this.?
PinkTopaz, again: this is the Michael Jackson Death Hoax INVESTIGATORS website. An investigator is an individual who actually conducts a clinical investigation. You have written many times that you're very upset and hurt by the thought of doubles being used, and you were advised several times to take a break and skip these threads for a while. I am totally willing to try and see things from your side and believe me, I do understand what you must be feeling. That however does not mean we have to stop investigating a subject which is, in the eyes of many, very realistic, and I don't think that we have to very very carefully formulate the way we present our thoughts and be afraid that every word we write might hurt a person who reads it. You know very well that we don't write about the doubles in order to hurt people, we are investigating.
Again, please take a break, because this way you are torturing yourself...
Well I was addressing Puff, not you, seeing as she was very sarcastic and put an eye-rolling Smiley. Also, no matter how this is to me, I need to know about it and research it. I just wish others wouldn't be so callous to those who struggle with it, but I'm not adressing you.
Well, Pink Topaz.. there are two options:
a.) He had a lot of plastic surgeries, because he changed a lot during the years ( but he can't change height with plastic surgeries)
b.) he used doubles.
I've just expressed my point of view and yes there are people who prefer to think he had a lot of plastic surgeries. That's all.
Michael said it himself ( I hope was the real M )He only had 2 surgeries
He said that to Bashir, and I know for sure that it's not true. I mean, he admitted in Moonwalk that he had his nose and chin done, and that book is from 1988. So I'm convinced that he had more surgery after that.
@Souza If he feared his life, if he was planning this hoax, why is it so hard to believe he used doubles?
If he feared his life, and used doubles all the time, what's the point of faking his death? Using doubles would have been better solution instead of faking his death, while he (the real Mike) could have been disappeared with his kids, or without them, to make the thing believable.
@Souza If he feared his life, if he was planning this hoax, why is it so hard to believe he used doubles?
If he feared his life, and used doubles all the time, what's the point of faking his death? Using doubles would have been better solution instead of faking his death, while he (the real Mike) could have been disappeared with his kids, or without them, to make the thing believable.
Then the doubles life would have been in danger... I might be wrong, but I don't think Michael considers another life less valuable than his own.
I am done. I think I have stated MULTIPLE times that this is a HAOX INVESTIGATION site and that I am not a fan. If you don't like that, I suggest a fanforum. I am here to unravel a mystery. That does not mean I am disrespectful, it means I want to know why he used doubles and what role doubles might have played in his life, the good way or the bad way. I think I have proved many times that I respect the man very much.
For those that still want to put a lot of work in this, good luck. I'm through.
I hope that wasn't direceted at what I said because I meant that I understand even more why you want to compare different pictures of Michael since your not a fan. Hope you didn't misunderstand, I was not stating that you're being disrespectful.
Too be honest I don't believe the double theory but I respect Mo and Souza for bringing this up though. I do believe that Michael had doubles but not as many as has been stated. For me it's pretty obvious he had doubles but not 10.000 doubles.
Thanks for the Donald Trump videos. I really appreciated the nice things he said about Michael. He said Michael was really, really smart and had suffered terribly in the last ten years. I think that anything is possible about the doubles. Only the people who really knew him could tell it was him. The really handsome photos are of him.
Michael said it himself ( I hope was the real M )He only had 2 surgeries
he also said he was Peter Pan and that he could fly. If you ask an alcoholic how many drinks they had today are they really gonna tell you? If you ask an over eater how many cookies they snuck last night, are they gonna tell you?
He told Bashir he had 2 NOSE surgeries...he didn't talk about the chin....
That's funny because his surgeon who fixed his nose using cartilage harvested from his ear, (reason why its "pointy" and reason for the incisions behind the ear) The nasal passages were collapsing and he had difficulty breathing. Maybe the better question to MJ would have been, "what do you consider a nose job?" Maybe fixing and maintenance don't count in his book?
Michael said it himself ( I hope was the real M )He only had 2 surgeries
he also said he was Peter Pan and that he could fly. If you ask an alcoholic how many drinks they had today are they really gonna tell you? If you ask an over eater how many cookies they snuck last night, are they gonna tell you?
He told Bashir he had 2 NOSE surgeries...he didn't talk about the chin....
That's funny because his surgeon who fixed his nose using cartilage harvested from his ear, (reason why its "pointy" and reason for the incisions behind the ear) The nasal passages were collapsing and he had difficulty breathing. Maybe the better question to MJ would have been, "what do you consider a nose job?" Maybe fixing and maintenance don't count in his book?
The difficulty breathing, was this in the invincible era ? cause he had a strange voice there, also when he was singing.
Michael said it himself ( I hope was the real M )He only had 2 surgeries
he also said he was Peter Pan and that he could fly. If you ask an alcoholic how many drinks they had today are they really gonna tell you? If you ask an over eater how many cookies they snuck last night, are they gonna tell you?
He told Bashir he had 2 NOSE surgeries...he didn't talk about the chin....
That's funny because his surgeon who fixed his nose using cartilage harvested from his ear, (reason why its "pointy" and reason for the incisions behind the ear) The nasal passages were collapsing and he had difficulty breathing. Maybe the better question to MJ would have been, "what do you consider a nose job?" Maybe fixing and maintenance don't count in his book?[/quote]
thats what I always thought..he probably thought that since he was fixing something that was wrong not cosmetic...and maybe he only had 2 nose jobs that were strictly cosmetic!
Some people seem to feel that MJ could not have used doubles because that would have been an outright act of deception. Guess what? He is in the entertainment business and deception occurs all of the time. Action movies use stunt doubles. Does anyone really believe that a highly paid movie star is jumping out of planes or riding atop of a moving freight train?
It appears that many people take MJs acts of deception and his use of doubles very personal. If you attended a concert when a double was used the concert was still a good one. MJ or his double gave you your money's worth by putting on a great performance. Here's something to think about. I believe that many people are really upset that they may have been screaming at or dreaming about someone who wasn't MJ.That may be at the core of why so many people reject the idea of doubles. It is an uneasy and unnerving feeling to consider that the exciting man onstage was really some random guy who had surgeries and wore make up to give the illusion that he was MJ. Scary, aint it?
To use doubles, doesn't make MJ the boogie man or less of a person. He did what he had to do for his own reasons. The doubles theory can be accepted or rejected. However, there is very good reason to believe that doubles have played an important role in MJs career.
Ok guys,.,,,,,,I think most of you know by now that Im on the fence about the doubles thing. BUT, I am very open minded and think it could be possible and I also think that some of us need to either stay away from these types of threads or if you MUST read them, then please dont say anything.
Mo and Souza work very hard on their research and I think we ALL owe them a little more respect then is being shown to them lately.
I personally find it VERY upsetting when I see someone has done some research and people who dont agree with it do nothing but bash and show aggressiveness towards other posters. How disrespectful can you be? Im not singleing anyone out, but I am speaking to a few of you.
I think its very interesting to learn of someone else's opinion and personal beliefs as to why they think something is the way it is. For example...the kids having doubles thread. I didnt bash Jacksonolgy for his/her research at all...I thought I was very respectful and I wasnt rude....as least I hope Jacksonolgy didnt think I was rude. I think I may have come off as being rude and Im sorry for that, but its only because I was surprised at the thread. So Jacksonology, Im sorry if I seemed nasty yesterday in your thread. I do not think the children have doubles...however I am very interested in why other people think they have doubles...
We need to start showing some respect people....cus frankly Im sick of all the fighting on here. Im sure you would appreciate respect as well, but you need to give it to recieve it.
Michael said it himself ( I hope was the real M )He only had 2 surgeries
he also said he was Peter Pan and that he could fly. If you ask an alcoholic how many drinks they had today are they really gonna tell you? If you ask an over eater how many cookies they snuck last night, are they gonna tell you?
He told Bashir he had 2 NOSE surgeries...he didn't talk about the chin....
Maybe fixing and maintenance don't count in his book?
No, as does not count for many people. He had 2 nose jobs, he is not liying.
Michael said it himself ( I hope was the real M )He only had 2 surgeries
he also said he was Peter Pan and that he could fly. If you ask an alcoholic how many drinks they had today are they really gonna tell you? If you ask an over eater how many cookies they snuck last night, are they gonna tell you?
He told Bashir he had 2 NOSE surgeries...he didn't talk about the chin....
Maybe fixing and maintenance don't count in his book?
No, as does not count for many people. He had 2 nose jobs, he is not liying.
Well... He had several nosejobs and the chin done before the '90's, so you think that he never had any surgery after that?
Well... He had several nosejobs and the chin done before the '90's, so you think that he never had any surgery after that?
No matter what kind of plastic surgery is performed, the distance between the inner corner of the eye and the top of the upper lip stays basically the same. Plastic surgery can't cause more than half an inch of extra length. That's IMPOSSIBLE.
Look at this comparison, the bottom layer is a pic of Mike at age 17, top layer is the mugshot. These pics are lines up by matching the inner and outer corners of the eyes. Before rejecting, note that it doesn't matter how many years are in between the pictures, the mouth never lowers like this due to aging:
It's kinda strange that whatever Mike said his fans consider to be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, except when it comes to the procedures he underwent. When comparing photos of what Souza and I consider "The Real Deal" we don't see facial differences except for the nose and the added cleft.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Comments
Well, Pink Topaz.. there are two options:
a.) He had a lot of plastic surgeries, because he changed a lot during the years ( but he can't change height with plastic surgeries)
b.) he used doubles.
I've just expressed my point of view and yes there are people who prefer to think he had a lot of plastic surgeries. That's all.
He said that to Bashir, and I know for sure that it's not true. I mean, he admitted in Moonwalk that he had his nose and chin done, and that book is from 1988. So I'm convinced that he had more surgery after that.
If he feared his life, if he was planning this hoax, why is it so hard to believe he used doubles?
If he feared his life, and used doubles all the time, what's the point of faking his death? Using doubles would have been better solution instead of faking his death, while he (the real Mike) could have been disappeared with his kids, or without them, to make the thing believable.
Then the doubles life would have been in danger... I might be wrong, but I don't think Michael considers another life less valuable than his own.
I hope that wasn't direceted at what I said because I meant that I understand even more why you want to compare different pictures of Michael since your not a fan. Hope you didn't misunderstand, I was not stating that you're being disrespectful.
He told Bashir he had 2 NOSE surgeries...he didn't talk about the chin....
That's funny because his surgeon who fixed his nose using cartilage harvested from his ear, (reason why its "pointy" and reason for the incisions behind the ear) The nasal passages were collapsing and he had difficulty breathing. Maybe the better question to MJ would have been, "what do you consider a nose job?" Maybe fixing and maintenance don't count in his book?
The difficulty breathing, was this in the invincible era ? cause he had a strange voice there, also when he was singing.
Hahaha <!-- s
He told Bashir he had 2 NOSE surgeries...he didn't talk about the chin....
That's funny because his surgeon who fixed his nose using cartilage harvested from his ear, (reason why its "pointy" and reason for the incisions behind the ear) The nasal passages were collapsing and he had difficulty breathing. Maybe the better question to MJ would have been, "what do you consider a nose job?" Maybe fixing and maintenance don't count in his book?[/quote]
thats what I always thought..he probably thought that since he was fixing something that was wrong not cosmetic...and maybe he only had 2 nose jobs that were strictly cosmetic!
It appears that many people take MJs acts of deception and his use of doubles very personal. If you attended a concert when a double was used the concert was still a good one. MJ or his double gave you your money's worth by putting on a great performance. Here's something to think about. I believe that many people are really upset that they may have been screaming at or dreaming about someone who wasn't MJ.That may be at the core of why so many people reject the idea of doubles. It is an uneasy and unnerving feeling to consider that the exciting man onstage was really some random guy who had surgeries and wore make up to give the illusion that he was MJ. Scary, aint it?
To use doubles, doesn't make MJ the boogie man or less of a person. He did what he had to do for his own reasons. The doubles theory can be accepted or rejected. However, there is very good reason to believe that doubles have played an important role in MJs career.
Mo and Souza work very hard on their research and I think we ALL owe them a little more respect then is being shown to them lately.
I personally find it VERY upsetting when I see someone has done some research and people who dont agree with it do nothing but bash and show aggressiveness towards other posters. How disrespectful can you be? Im not singleing anyone out, but I am speaking to a few of you.
I think its very interesting to learn of someone else's opinion and personal beliefs as to why they think something is the way it is. For example...the kids having doubles thread. I didnt bash Jacksonolgy for his/her research at all...I thought I was very respectful and I wasnt rude....as least I hope Jacksonolgy didnt think I was rude. I think I may have come off as being rude and Im sorry for that, but its only because I was surprised at the thread. So Jacksonology, Im sorry if I seemed nasty yesterday in your thread. I do not think the children have doubles...however I am very interested in why other people think they have doubles...
We need to start showing some respect people....cus frankly Im sick of all the fighting on here. Im sure you would appreciate respect as well, but you need to give it to recieve it.
No, as does not count for many people. He had 2 nose jobs, he is not liying.
Well... He had several nosejobs and the chin done before the '90's, so you think that he never had any surgery after that?
Nose job for cosmetic reasons or surgery for other reasons.... They are surgery to me. And he definatly had more than 2, and not only his nose.
No matter what kind of plastic surgery is performed, the distance between the inner corner of the eye and the top of the upper lip stays basically the same. Plastic surgery can't cause more than half an inch of extra length. That's IMPOSSIBLE.
Look at this comparison, the bottom layer is a pic of Mike at age 17, top layer is the mugshot. These pics are lines up by matching the inner and outer corners of the eyes. Before rejecting, note that it doesn't matter how many years are in between the pictures, the mouth never lowers like this due to aging:
It's kinda strange that whatever Mike said his fans consider to be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, except when it comes to the procedures he underwent. When comparing photos of what Souza and I consider "The Real Deal" we don't see facial differences except for the nose and the added cleft.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Didnt kow that Hoeflin could do that <!-- s
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