<br />This feels really good and right, and exciting! Thanks so much Bec!<br /><br />For me personally this is all bringing clarity to so much confusion I was struggling with, or my brain was short-circuiting with so many thousands of bits of info.<br /><br />Now, in back reading TS’s posts, it seems to me the main reasons for MJ not going to UCLA himself was the danger of the hoax plans being leaked to enemies of his, and that they might murder him—I’m guessing in the ambulance (seems he is saying not all medics are in ) or at the hospital (again only key people are in, same with at the coroner). And that the over-arching reasons for the hoax were most importantly the NWO and EOW scenarios, along with the message God had given MJ. The style of the hoax was MJ directing it from "behind the scenes", not on location. He has hired/relies on the best/most trusted he can find to carry out the staging--including the FBI bringing in the DWD patient. He has consistantly given this message but we were getting hit with so much contradictory info that confused us. <br /><br />On killing him:<br />TS November 28, 2011, 04:18:49 AM<br />
No, they probably would not follow the 12:21 and 2:26; but we are NOT discussing here if the ACTUALLY got him (and since we have these numbers, then they did not get him). Instead, we are discussing how MJ would PLAN for things to go. They could take him out any time after the (supposedly) "not breathing" point in time, and the world would think that MJ was already dead (or very nearly so). The risk therefore did not start at 2:26, the risk started a couple of hours before that.<br /><br />Also, I am not saying that MJ found out that they were planning to get him that day. Rather, I'm saying he knew that there was a general threat out there (and had been there for a long time); and IF someone in the hoax leaked his plans, it would be an unnecessary risk to go to the hospital (and also escape from the hospital, with a lot of people around--not all of whom you can trust).<br /><br />Yes, there was also risk while getting away in a plane, and afterwards; but much less people needed to know about the specifics of the getaway, than the people in on the hoax. You can't eliminate all risks, but you can minimize them.<br />TS_comments on November 27, 2011, 10:55:43 PM<br /><br />So did the Illuminati outthink him? Or did he outthink them, AND FLY OUT OF THE COUNTRY HOURS BEFORE THE KICKOFF TIME? Just in case the answer to that question is not self-evident, Jermaine made it crystal clear in his “airport” slip/clue. But I’ll save the details on that for another post.
<br /><br />On the spiritual purpose being the main one for MJ's hoax:<br />And the teamwork of TS, TMZ and this forum:<br />TS on: November 29, 2011, 12:35:50 AM<br />
<br />Let me share a little secret, about the bitter opposition that I have received for about two years now. If I had never done anything but promote the fun and games aspects of the hoax, you can be sure that the whole hoax world would have been raving about TS for these last two years. The opposition is primarily because I support the serious aspects (Illuminati/NWO, end of the world, etc); humanity generally wants to believe that everything is hunky-dory, and all things will continue fine and dandy. This is precisely the attitude which was prevalent before the flood, as well as Sodom and Gomorrah—and Jesus warned that this would also be the attitude at the end of the world (see Luke 17:26-30)….<br /><br />I’ve said the following before, but it is worth repeating. This is the only hoax forum that I have ever posted on, and it is also the only hoax forum or website that TMZ ever linked to in their blogroll; this blogroll is no longer on their home page, but it is still on their website and still has a link to our forum on it {http://www.tmz.com/blogroll}. For a long time, many have thought that TMZ was just another unreliable tabloid media source—that they have merely been playing with hoax believers, and don’t really have any inside information about the hoax. Well, TS has always supported TMZ; and recently, La Toya also supported TMZ: “But there’s more to the story guys, and Harvey knows that; Harvey Levin knows that (don’t you Harvey).” {}.
<br />[/quot<br /><br />@mjonmind - This is also along my lines of thinking regarding this hoax and Michael not risking putting himself in immediate danger should things not go as planned.
<br />Great job bec! It's good to finally have all of our reasons listed together on one big list.<br /><br />You're up TS! :argue: :icon_lol: :icon_e_smile:
That “hoax” coroner van video, possibly a trial run for timing, possible obstacles, route planning, etc. The date of that video doesn’t mean anything in my opinion. Could have been placed there purposefully to mislead anyone using it as a debunker.
<br /><br />I can't help but feel a little :suspect: too! Especially when TS apparently thinks there's still going to be stuff for us to discuss after he replies!<br /><br />[size=12pt]"After I give my replies, others may continue to investigate on this thread as long as they wish;..[/size].."<br /><br />@TS, are we going to get that completed puzzle at last? Pleeeeeease! :bowdown: :icon_bounce: :icon_lol:<br />
<br /><br />Perhaps TS is indicating that he will give honest answers to the list but if people aren't going to believe him then so be it (when do we believe TS and when don't we?).......TS has probably done all he can to let people know what took place on 6/25/09, particularly in respect to who or what went to UCLA. Members can take it or leave it I suppose. The one's that don't believe the answers can keep on researching for as long as they want, but perhaps TS won't be engaging with this convo any more......<br /><br />That is how I read that line anyway.<br />
<br /><br />I can't help but feel a little :suspect: too! Especially when TS apparently thinks there's still going to be stuff for us to discuss after he replies!<br /><br />"After I give my replies, others may continue to investigate on this thread as long as they wish;...."<br /><br />@TS, are we going to get that completed puzzle at last? Pleeeeeease! :bowdown: :icon_bounce: :icon_lol:<br />
<br /><br />what I understood by TS's post is that after he replies each and every point posted by Bec, we'll know what the whole story is...and it may NOT convince us completely and maybe that's what he meant by saying we can continue to discuss as long as we wish to. and we may not even have the whole puzzle solved, some of it's pieces can only be put into place after Michael bams... and certain things will be clear to us...<br />
<br /><br />@Thriller, the 'puzzle' I was referring to was the one TS posted on Page 1 of this thread! Like you, I'm sure the bigger puzzle will not be solved just yet.
<br />So is the dummy option now off the table? <br />
<br /><br />Well it doesn't have to be, there's a few points under the Live MJ reasons that could work for a dummy as well (#s 8, 9, n 10, n to some extent #7), but it began to emerge that there were many more reasons supporting LiveMJ theory instead of dummy theory. Additionally, it occurred to me that the loudest and most vehement protest from TS last year regarding the LiveMJ theory is actually the theory's greatest strength... and I've heard that somewhere before:<br /><br />
You see, evil always goes for the jugular by attacking a person's greatest strength
--back, Of a tHeOrY or Vision, MJJC 11/18/09<br /><br />not that TS is evil, not at all, but it is a brilliant diversion tactic nonetheless.<br /><br />TS protested that to have LiveMJ there would be too risky, because, what if he is discovered?!? Well exactly... let's go down that road: what IF he is discovered? Several points in the LiveMJ reasons list address this (1, 8, 9, 10, 12). Now flip it around, what if, during all the commotion on 6/25/09, MJ is discovered ELSEWHERE? Hoax over in one fell swoop. No amount of damage control or propaganda campaign can iron that out, it's game over: MJ is not dead, he's not in distress, and he's not at UCLA in the ER being worked on by emergency personnel. Problemo de grande.<br /><br />So as unlikely as it might seem that MJ might be discovered elsewhere (where ever else he may have "escaped" to on 6/25/09), by MJ being any where other then on that stretcher, this risk exists and would be ever-present with any alternative method. <br /><br />Ironically... if LiveMJ is there every step of the way, this vulnerability is completely negated-- MJ is never in two places at once, rather, he is always precisely where he is reported to be. In fact, what we have with this LiveMJ option, is complete and 100% elimination of this risk of hoax discovery, and how often did MJ have access to that kind of "insurance policy" on that day?<br /><br />After 3+ years, and all that we have been able to assert regarding the events of that day, it seems to me that LiveMJ is actually the least risky option on the table.<br /><br />(besides all that, no one offered any strong points for the dummy theory that didn't also work for LiveMJ-- during the events which TS asked us to focus on way back at the start of Level 7-- who or what went to UCLA in the ambulance-- I did not include the helicopter or coroner van transport, in fact in LiveMJ point 11, I leave that portion of the illusion open ended.)<br /><br />Ps. On the topic of TS_comments being more or less done after completing Level 7... TS_comments may well be done participating here but recall... it is TS who posts the Updates, not TS_comments. Once Level 7 is completed, I'd actually expect TS_comments to be done, as the Levels of 2011 is where he took over from TS in the first place. We ought not assume they are the same person as they are not the same username.
<br />So is the dummy option now off the table? <br />
<br /><br />Well it doesn't have to be, there's a few points under the Live MJ reasons that could work for a dummy as well (#s 8, 9, n 10, n to some extent #7), but it began to emerge that there were many more reasons supporting LiveMJ theory instead of dummy theory. Additionally, it occurred to me that the loudest and most vehement protest from TS last year regarding the LiveMJ theory is actually the theory's greatest strength... and I've heard that somewhere before:<br /><br />
You see, evil always goes for the jugular by attacking a person's greatest strength
--back, Of a tHeOrY or Vision, MJJC 11/18/09<br /><br />not that TS is evil, not at all, but it is a brilliant diversion tactic nonetheless.<br /><br />TS protested that to have LiveMJ there would be too risky, because, what if he is discovered?!? Well exactly... let's go down that road: what IF he is discovered? Several points in the LiveMJ reasons list address this (1, 8, 9, 10, 12). Now flip it around, what if, during all the commotion on 6/25/09, MJ is discovered ELSEWHERE? Hoax over in one fell swoop. No amount of damage control or propaganda campaign can iron that out, it's game over: MJ is not dead, he's not in distress, and he's not at UCLA in the ER being worked on by emergency personnel. Problemo de grande.<br /><br />So as unlikely as it might seem that MJ might be discovered elsewhere (where ever else he may have "escaped" to on 6/25/09), by MJ being any where other then on that stretcher, this risk exists and would be ever-present with any alternative method. <br /><br />Ironically... if LiveMJ is there every step of the way, this vulnerability is completely negated-- MJ is never in two places at once, rather, he is always precisely where he is reported to be. In fact, what we have with this LiveMJ option, is complete and 100% elimination of this risk of hoax discovery, and how often did MJ have access to that kind of "insurance policy" on that day?<br /><br />After 3+ years, and all that we have been able to assert regarding the events of that day, it seems to me that LiveMJ is actually the least risky option on the table.<br /><br />(besides all that, no one offered any strong points for the dummy theory that didn't also work for LiveMJ-- during the events which TS asked us to focus on way back at the start of Level 7-- who or what went to UCLA in the ambulance-- I did not include the helicopter or coroner van transport, in fact in LiveMJ point 11, I leave that portion of the illusion open ended.)<br /><br />Ps. On the topic of TS_comments being more or less done after completing Level 7... TS_comments may well be done participating here but recall... it is TS who posts the Updates, not TS_comments. Once Level 7 is completed, I'd actually expect TS_comments to be done, as the Levels of 2011 is where he took over from TS in the first place. We ought not assume they are the same person as they are not the same username.<br />
<br /><br />So what I understand according to this point is that Michael would always have to be where he is supposed to be in order to not expose the Hoax. Which doesn't make sense because of course at some point he is going to move/travel anyway and the risk to be discovered isn't going to change as far as I can see. The FBI would escort him with the same amount of safety on June 25th or any other day. Actually wouldn't it be best to escape/leave that day while everybody thinks he is in L.A./UCLA? Maybe.
This might be off topic, but does anyone remember this video? <br /><br />It always stuck in my mind . Maybe Michael being shown laying on a stretcher that is no longer used in the hospital is supposed to convey something, possibly the clue lies in the name: renaissance, which in lower case means a renewal of life, vigor, interest, etc.; rebirth; revival: a moral renaissance. It’s described as a Stryker “frame”: frame can be informally defined as either (a.) To make up evidence or contrive events so as to incriminate a person falsely; or (b.) to prearrange so as to ensure a desired fraudulent outcome; fix.<br /><br />At any rate, the information contained in this video virtually convinced me that the photo was faked.<br /><br />Or…it could have been staged to show us that this ladies and gentlemen is my clue to you that this is the beginning of the hoax :thjajaja121:
GREAT job bec!! thank you for completing arguments :icon_razz:<br /><br />tomorrow is 11/29... who knows what that day will bring..good news, hopefully :icon_bounce:
yes there are or there was an investigation of the FBI<br /><br />
Hi folks,<br />I remarked on this video several months ago and it just came to me to find it again and re-view it. It is the video of the Congressional Black Caucus Tribute to Michael Jackson and features beautifully eloquent speakers. <br /><br />I would encourage people who haven't seen it to watch both parts.<br /><br /><br />However, what I want to draw particular attention to are the comments of Congresswoman Watson, who, in part I, @ 35:30 says the following( bold are my emphasis):<br /><br />"I want you to know that the Los Angeles community, the state of California, and the nation, we're all concerned about Michael Jackson's death.<br />[size=12pt]And uh, I'm in contact with the family, and the people who handle his career involvement, and I assured them that come out into the open becaanything untoward about Michael will use, the Federal Bureau of Investigation is involved in this lengthly investigation. [/size]So just know, you might be sitting there and saying why is it taking so long, that they are studying every intricate detail of his life, and his death, and what happened afterwards. So just know, that within a short while, justice will out, and justice will be done. Have faith."
@paula-c, I’ve seen this and posted it on the hoax forum. My question was did they leave the caucus and leave the issues on the floor, or is something being done about it. Your last sentence in your post eases my mind a bit. Thanks for posting it.
<br />So is the dummy option now off the table? <br />
<br /><br />Well it doesn't have to be, there's a few points under the Live MJ reasons that could work for a dummy as well (#s 8, 9, n 10, n to some extent #7), but it began to emerge that there were many more reasons supporting LiveMJ theory instead of dummy theory. Additionally, it occurred to me that the loudest and most vehement protest from TS last year regarding the LiveMJ theory is actually the theory's greatest strength... and I've heard that somewhere before:<br /><br />
You see, evil always goes for the jugular by attacking a person's greatest strength
--back, Of a tHeOrY or Vision, MJJC 11/18/09<br /><br />not that TS is evil, not at all, but it is a brilliant diversion tactic nonetheless.<br /><br />TS protested that to have LiveMJ there would be too risky, because, what if he is discovered?!? Well exactly... let's go down that road: what IF he is discovered? Several points in the LiveMJ reasons list address this (1, 8, 9, 10, 12). Now flip it around, what if, during all the commotion on 6/25/09, MJ is discovered ELSEWHERE? Hoax over in one fell swoop. No amount of damage control or propaganda campaign can iron that out, it's game over: MJ is not dead, he's not in distress, and he's not at UCLA in the ER being worked on by emergency personnel. Problemo de grande.<br /><br />So as unlikely as it might seem that MJ might be discovered elsewhere (where ever else he may have "escaped" to on 6/25/09), by MJ being any where other then on that stretcher, this risk exists and would be ever-present with any alternative method. <br /><br />Ironically... if LiveMJ is there every step of the way, this vulnerability is completely negated-- MJ is never in two places at once, rather, he is always precisely where he is reported to be. In fact, what we have with this LiveMJ option, is complete and 100% elimination of this risk of hoax discovery, and how often did MJ have access to that kind of "insurance policy" on that day?<br /><br />After 3+ years, and all that we have been able to assert regarding the events of that day, it seems to me that LiveMJ is actually the least risky option on the table.<br /><br />(besides all that, no one offered any strong points for the dummy theory that didn't also work for LiveMJ-- during the events which TS asked us to focus on way back at the start of Level 7-- who or what went to UCLA in the ambulance-- I did not include the helicopter or coroner van transport, in fact in LiveMJ point 11, I leave that portion of the illusion open ended.)<br /><br />Ps. On the topic of TS_comments being more or less done after completing Level 7... TS_comments may well be done participating here but recall... it is TS who posts the Updates, not TS_comments. Once Level 7 is completed, I'd actually expect TS_comments to be done, as the Levels of 2011 is where he took over from TS in the first place. We ought not assume they are the same person as they are not the same username.<br />
<br /><br />So what I understand according to this point is that Michael would always have to be where he is supposed to be in order to not expose the Hoax. Which doesn't make sense because of course at some point he is going to move/travel anyway and the risk to be discovered isn't going to change as far as I can see. The FBI would escort him with the same amount of safety on June 25th or any other day. Actually wouldn't it be best to escape/leave that day while everybody thinks he is in L.A./UCLA? Maybe.<br />
<br /><br /><br />If Michael was discovered anywhere but UCLA that day the hoax could’ve been over as soon as it had begun. If he didn’t go to UCLA there is the risk, however minimal, of being caught. Actually being where he was reported to have been means there is zero chance of someone seeing him in a different location at the same time. The trail goes cold after the coroner van gets to the coroner’s so Michael can then get to where he needs to go, in cloak-and-dagger style, having successfully convinced everyone he’s died that day. And bec makes a great argument that had something happened to the ambulance or at UCLA and someone saw the person on the stretcher, it would be a visual confirmation that it was Michael and not anything/anyone else. Live MJ playing dead MJ also works best with the movie aspect of the hoax.
Paula, I remember hearing just that part before but not the video, so I’ll watch them later. Interesting the banner behind them—The Source.com :icon_cool:<br /><br />Bec, just a thought, I feel that IF there is any truth to 'live MJ on death scene' scenario, TS will NOT admit to it perhaps for safety or other reasons, but who knows. We will have to wait for 1/1/2013 to see if he is a 'fake informer', which I very much doubt, but what do I know. MJ may want some things to ALWAYS remain in the realms of mystery. TS said, "A magician never reveals how he does a trick". I completely trust MJ, thus TS and Front, but the complexity and layers to the Man and the Message are what make me want to trust what he tells us happened, with an open mind to future revelations.<br /><br />TS, just a question, how did our investigation do in regards to the planned projection of how you thought it would do before kick-off day? Did we uncover most of the 'easter eggs', get informed on side issues that affect our world negatively, spend too much time with clutter, enjoy your 'adventure' as much as you thought we would? Did we bring you a measure of joy and satisfaction? We literally poured our lives into this for 3 1/2 years, and I'd loved to know your thoughts on that. Thank you so much for the gift you gave us. We've been blessed off the scale.<br />
I am not putting all my hopes on TS' replies because I am almost sure that the real hoax story will be written in a book or filmed in a movie and I am even thinking that the whole world will be able to be aware of Michael being alive but Michael himself will not be exposed to the public eye anymore for safety reasons so BAM party is being just a chimera right now for me.<br /><br />ps: good job Bec!.
In regards to the DWD act allowing (or not) a patient to ingest the drugs in another state: I had sent an email asking that specific question to the Washington State Department of Health and I received the following answer; they confirm that it is possible:<br /><br />
Hello:<br />Thank you for contacting our office about the Washington State Death with Dignity Act. <br />Under the terms of the act, the participant is not restricted to a location where they must ingest the medication. However, the laws in states in which there is not a similar comparable DWDA law differ regarding the intentional ingestion of life-ending medication. For example, if the participant chooses to self-administer the medication in another state, the person who certifies the death (i.e. the MD/ME who signs the death certificate and determines the cause of death) is not bound by the WA state Death with Dignity law that requires the manner of death be marked as natural and the underlying cause of death listed as the terminal disease. In other words, the certifier may use terms such as suicide or assisted suicide, and may list the cause of death as poisoning and/or overdose. In WA State, the underlying cause of death must be listed as the terminal disease and the manner of death must be marked as ‘Natural”. <br /> <br />The WA State DWDA is also drafted to ensure the confidentiality of the families of DWDA participants who may experience emotional distress if a family member’s participation were to be disclosed. They may also lose access to life, health, and accident insurance or annuity claims if the death is listed as “assisted suicide.” The end-of-life choices of the participant may be disclosed if the medication is ingested outside of WA state.<br /> <br />There are a number of issues to consider if the life-ending medication is self-administered in another state that does not have a Death with Dignity law similar to WA State’s law.
Thought it would be worth putting some old posts from TS that could explains things more about a dummy, corpse or live mj. <br /><br />" If there were no clues about the hoax, then the FBI and/or MJ could be accused of entrapment. However, and I’m going to let another cat out of the bag here: the hoax forums are a very strong defense against entrapment. If the FBI or MJ were ever charged of entrapment, all they would need to do is point to the hoax forums as proof that anybody could’ve figured out MJ did not die, if they really wanted to figure it out.<br /><br />The question of whether all, some, or none of the paramedics are in on the hoax, is a question that has not yet been answered with at least two strong points which nobody can debunk. Nevertheless, between the staged ambulance photo, and especially with the FBI involvement: nearly everyone is agreed that at least one or more of the paramedics are in on it. <br /><br />On the other hand, though, so far nobody has offered any strong support for ALL of the paramedics being in on it; and if any of them were not in on it, there would almost certainly need to be a real corpse. Please don’t dismiss this possibility too quickly; it would explain the warm room, the paramedics not recognizing MJ, he looked like a frail old man, etc—and it would also decrease the amount of people that would need to be in on it (both at the house, and at the hospital). If someone can bring at least two strong points against the corpse theory, and nobody can debunk either of the two: fine. And if not, then we need to be open to considering all possibilities—that is what good investigation is all about. "<br /><br />
TS <br /><br />" MJ's ORIGINAL plan was to NOT go to the hospital, because of the POSSIBILITY that someone MIGHT leak the hoax (which would be a risk whatever his plan was, but especially IF his plan was to go to the hospital--therefore, that was not his plan). "<br /><br />" For sure, all three 7's will be done by the end of 2012: Level 7, Update 7, and Sign 7 (777)."<br /><br />
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