The coroners van video is key because, like i said, the media ignored it and dismissed it after those German fellows took credit for it. I'm not even sure mainstream media ran with it at all. PERFECT if you asked me. It was blatant obvious evidence that the media ignored and got many a believer started on the yellow brick road.<br />
<br />The coroners van video becomes pointless if Michael didn't go to UCLA on 6/25/2009. Why would it even be created if it wasn't important?<br />If this has been planned for nearly 20 years I can't imaagine Michael not being all up in it to supervise. Does slipping away in a car in the middle of the night soundlike michael to you guys?<br />
<br />no it does not sound like MJ to me.<br /><br />I agree the van video was made for a reason. But i concede it may have been just for fun.
<br /><br />If you’re online that lonely night<br />What’s this thread without you boy<br />We're so puzzled we look crazy<br />Without you darling this thread is through<br /><br />
If this has been planned for nearly 20 years I can't imaagine Michael not being all up in it to supervise. Does slipping away in a car in the middle of the night soundlike michael to you guys?
<br /><br />Michael was 50 at that time, people change when they get older, I am not quite sure MJ would take crazy rides with the helicopter, wrapped in sheets, just to jump out of the coroner's van. He is a KING, not a clown. Of course, it is very possible that I do not understand him at all.<br /><br />
<br />Souza is flipping because her man (Murray) is locked up and they wont let her have a conjugal visit. Imagine the frustation /scream/<br />
<br /><br />Miss ma man so much... :'( :'( :'( :'( <br /><br />And agreed bec, my dad is in his 60's and he's a big BABY. Men are like that til they die. We women secretly love stuff like that too, but someone has to keep some order, right?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
To me it really boils down to what was one of Michael's intent for staging this hoax.<br /><br />To prove the media twists the truth with lies and perception....what better way to do that than to not even be present during this whole media circus!<br /><br />Yeah, I know he's a perfectionist and a thrill seeker what have you, but the ultimate lesson would be to have the media snapping pictures and video taping events that never even involved him.<br /><br />THAT WOULD BE THE ULTIMATE SMACK DOWN!!!<br /><br />The 911 call came in for a "50 year old male"...the media assumes it's Michael Jackson and runs with it. (Michael's little helpers play along)<br /><br />True enough Evenstad and cohorts are there to capture the action like obedient little paps (more fuel to the fire), but ultimately it's one big joke on them (the media at large).<br /><br />Sorry, but the more I think of it, Michael was no where around for all this...I'd have to go with the "he left before the events of 6/25. Keeping the media dumbfounded for 2 plus years, faking his own death, and pulling off a whole court trial would be "thrilling" enough to say the least.<br /><br /><br />Pictures and video can be manipulated!....they are not reliable.<br /><br />All the "evidence" that places Michael on the stretcher, at UCLA, even the coroner van are all forms of media that can be manipulated...THEY SHOW YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE, not what is real.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Michael's helpers that day did a real good job
<br />The coroners van video becomes pointless if Michael didn't go to UCLA on 6/25/2009. Why would it even be created if it wasn't important?<br />If this has been planned for nearly 20 years I can't imaagine Michael not being all up in it to supervise. Does slipping away in a car in the middle of the night soundlike michael to you guys?<br />
<br /><br />So we have to choose what's true: Jermaine's slip-up or the coroner's van video. Well I'm not really sure we have to chose.<br />
<br /><br />Actually a "making of" video for the coroner´s van video has been published by RTL.
and....what if this really IS a ARG?? and now that we vote, the game CHANGES?? Because we know someone's watching us...<br />I'm not voting, it don't matter really how and whys of it all. <br />As long as he's safe, comes back (or not if it's his plan, but I don't see that)and then we'll know we were right anyhow <br />One guess theory will work as much as another I suppose if we commit to making it happen.<br />I DO sooooo appreciate all your brain cells in all this work that I no longer have brain cells for and just <br />believe because I believe
<br /><br /><br />What if the person we saw being transported to the Coroners office had absolutely nothing to do with Michael Jackson.<br /><br />My reason for thinking this is who told the media the body was going to be airlifted? :? <br /><br />Are we just blindly assuming the helicopter transport was MJ based on "seeing" him go into the hospital and what the media said?<br /><br />
<br /><br />That would seem plausible, but Tohme came out to the roof and escorted the 'body' right to the heli door. <br /><br />
<br /><br />It's all for show...it's to make you believe that it's Michael. <br /><br />The media see's someone on the roof "associated" with Michael (Thome Thome), so it MUST be Michael.<br /><br />It's like the 911 call...."50 year old male", it MUST be Michael.<br /><br />It's the same "perception" trap, assuming things based on how it's presented, not on fact.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
Well my thoughts are (for what they are worth, I don't know).......<br /><br />I agree one ambulance at Carolwood and it went to UCLA on June 25th 2009 for realism sake. <br /><br />Not willing to agree though that it was Michael in the ambulance, but who or what is for us to figure out in Level 7b, after TS posts the picture with a piece of the puzzle in place.<br /><br />HOWEVER, I still have that big hint from Judge Pastor ringing in my head regarding the date of the wrapping up of the Dome Project on 9th June 2009. I think some of the "news" footage/imagery we have seen from June 25th might have been filmed during the Dome Project ("that day and the other da...errr"), for example Michael jumping out of Coroners Van.<br /><br />After all, if movies like Avatar and 2012 can be made with almost complete use of green screen technology then I am fairly confident it would be very simple to make some low quality grainy, jumpy "news" footage meant to be from on 25 June 2009 using green screen.
<br />Well my thoughts are (for what they are worth, I don't know).......<br /><br />I agree one ambulance at Carolwood and it went to UCLA on June 25th 2009 for realism sake. <br /><br />Not willing to agree though that it was Michael in the ambulance, but who or what is for us to figure out in Level 7b, after TS posts the picture with a piece of the puzzle in place.<br /><br />HOWEVER, I still have that big hintfrom Judge Pastor ringing in my head regarding the date of the wrapping up of the Dome Project on 9th June 2009. I think some of the "news" footage/imagery we have seen from June 25th might have been filmed during the Dome Project ("that day and the other da...errr"), for example Michael jumping out of Coroners Van.<br /><br />After all, if movies like Avatar and 2012 can be made with almost complete use of green screen technology then I am fairly confident it would be very simple to make some low quality grainy, jumpy "news" footage meant to be from on 25 June 2009 using green screen.<br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />yes i think this also
agree. one ambulance. (i never believed there were two anyway) but for voting purposes, here is my vote.<br /><br />one ambulance - no body.<br /><br />i also agree with souza regarding possibility that he left before / after the show started
This next quote is rather lengthy, with excerpts from pages 326-331: “Michael’s fans have been particularly helpful in providing useful information. Because they were so loyal to Michael, they knew his habits extremely well and were struck by the deviation from the norm on the nights just prior to, and the night of, Michael’s death. … According to fans, when Michael was on his way to rehearsal on [June 24] the day of his death, as he drove through the gate at Carolwood, he did not roll his window down and talk to them. That was totally out of character for Michael. I’ve never known Michael to behave in that way to a group of fans that had been so devoted to him. … Then, when he arrived at the Staples Center, he didn’t walk over to his fans. … That night, June 24, 2009, Michael’s last night of rehearsal before he died, his usual routine was again interrupted. … A number of men involved in his business dealings, who had never before been there during rehearsals, were waiting that evening for Michael to get there. Michael and the men remained in his dressing room for several hours … I believe that Michael knew at that moment he was going to die soon. … When Michael left his final rehearsal on the night that he passed, he managed to deliver a covert message to some fans through tears. [P] ‘You’ve gotta help me,’ he whispered. ‘You’ve gotta get me out of here.’ … As usual, the fans sped to Carolwood to get there before Michael arrived. They did so, as always, but this night was different. According to the fans who stayed outside Michael’s house every night to watch him come home from rehearsal, on the night of June 24, 2009, the last night before he passed, when he arrived home from rehearsal, the security measures at the house were much different from any other night when Michael returned from rehearsal. A line of roughly ten men were lined up on both sides of his gate. Normally, he had only the two or three security guards that were with him, and the one that was in the post inside the yard. But this night was different, security was everywhere, and again Michael’s car didn’t stop on the way inside the gate. … [One fan reported:] ‘I stand outside the gate, and Michael has the same routine every night. After he comes home from rehearsal, he goes upstairs, and about twenty minutes later the light in a room goes off. The night that he died, the light stayed on all night. I got worried. The light never went off. I didn’t get it. I didn’t understand what had happened. It was very strange. … Oh, and security was acting strange,’ she said. [P] I knew I needed to speak to several other fans regarding that night, and when I did, their stories were the same.”
<br /><br /><br />Alberto's job title: Director of Logistics according to his testimony. His job duties include clearing hotels or other places for security measures. To me that says he was trusted enough by MJ for this job. Alberto went out first and scouted places on MJ's request. After MJ knows the place is cleared he then goes shopping. Again this tells me that Alberto is being trusted as much as MJ can trust someone. Alberto is literally making sure MJ's life is protected before MJ goes anywhere.<br /><br />Knowing that about Alberto, knowing that it was Alberto who made the 911 call, helped Murray with whatever it was Alberto did the day of death, I believe MJ had Alberto in place along with Murray to carry out MJ's plan of his fake death on that day (6/25/09). <br /><br />I believe MJ watched Alberto and tested him just like he did to Murray. MJ knew who he could count on to help him pull off the Greatest Illusion of his Lifetime. <br /><br />I believe MJ stayed as long as he could in the room fixing it up to his liking and then he split. I can't pin point the exact timing he left but I don't think it was when the car left out the gate again 5 mins after arrival on 6/24/09.<br /><br /><br />Alberto's account of the eve of 6/24/09 contradicts what La Toya said in her book. La Toya's info is coming from second hand sources so I take the info with a grain of salt but Alberto isn't exactly being truthful either. Alberto does not say the word Alive in his testimony when asked if that was the last night he saw MJ alive. <br /><br />Food for thought.<br /><br />Hi TS.
I havn't read all of this thread, I stopped early on because it's getting a bit ridiculous and I'm sure the majority has already established a theory about the ambo and if it was MJ Vs Dummy...but I just wanted to point out, if someone hasn't already re-mentioned it, that remember in one of TS's post when we were debating if it was a body or not, someone pointed out that in TS's post he mentioned subtly a number of times that there was NO BODY...but yeah sorry if I am repeating what someone has said, I just think that so many things are being established and TS is dragging it out, maybe for good reason or maybe not....<br /><br />....were waiting for you TS to catch up.
Everything that can be seen on television is fiction, it is directed, produced is not something spontaneous, everything that is produced is false. And what we saw the June 25 does not escape all this
You guys are probably right about MJ not doing the stunt work on 6/25/09 himself. He probably left the night of the 24th/25th as Souza described. This is the least risky exit for him to take, the best chance of being undetected, and the least problematic.<br /><br />The most realistic theory presented is that nothing was put into the ambulance, nothing was on the stretcher, nothing was at ucla, and some other random body was on that helicopter and in that coroner van. On the other hand, Van Video (it deserves a proper title with caps) WAS probably Michael but he filmed it elsewhere and at another time. The man in dark running in behind was a prop, so that the van video later had a verified "camera man".<br /><br />Really the only hang up I have with this whole theory is the "body" on the helicopter. It does move. It does bend at the waist, and quite fluidly so. I'm not so sure a real corpse can bend like this, even after rigor has subsided. It's a very life-like bend. <br /><br />Even so, MJ leaving the night before and 6/25/09 Day Zero was all just an illusion: is the most realistic theory, I concede. <br /><br />(But there's this little voice in me that says it's so MJ to do it all himself. Now keep in mind I thought the same about him popping out of the coffin on 7/7/09, and demasking as Murray (or someone else) in court; BAM. So, for what it's worth, I'm probably wrong about this one too.<br /><br />It would be so much fun though.
So I want to start this level by debunking all the false theories about the ambulance (such as more than one ambulance, or it went to UCLA on a different day, etc). There is little point in discussing who or what went to UCLA on June 25 in the ambulance, if we’re not even sure whether the ambulance itself went to UCLA on June 25 2009! I need your help bringing all these theories to this thread, whether you believe in them or not; but please read all the posts in this thread before posting one of these theories, and make sure that it’s not a repeat of the same basic theory already discussed and debunked. Also, anyone can help out in the debunking process as well; this will help us get to the end faster.<br /><br /><br /><br />Once that is done (level 7a), we’ll move on to level 7b; I probably won’t start a new thread, but I will post a picture in this thread of another puzzle piece put into place. Level 7b will be who or what went to UCLA on June 25, 2009. When that is resolved, I will post another step in the puzzle pieces coming together; and we will finish this level with 7c, which will be any further details about the FBI, sting, and court. When level 7c is done, I will post a picture of the completed puzzle.<br />
<br /><br />It doesn't seem to matter what was on the helicopter or in the coroner's van upon re-read of the OP. All TS is asking is what was in the ambulance.
Deciding who or what went in the ambulance from Carrolwood to UCLA is going to be hard. We have visual confirmation of them seeming to load the stretcher into the ambulance at the house, but the video quality is such that the stretcher appears only as a white blob. Nothing could have been on it or there could have been a person (or a dummy) under a sheet. To be honest, we don't even have verification that the stretcher depicted in the ucla stretcher.gif came out of ambulance 71 at all, we just assume from the pics. There's no shot of them actually unloading the stretcher, just pushing it through the doors of the ER behind/beside ambulance 71 parked in the bay with it's back door open. It looks that way, as though they just unloaded, but we don't really know that. Does it matter? No idea.<br /><br />From what I saw on the video of loading at Carrolwood, through the gate crack, it *could* have been nothing on the stretcher. I have seen one video version with better quality that shows the paramedic that is hoisting the feet end does *not* have a ponytail, although there is a wide spread misconception that he does, it was just a resolution blob. He is clean cut and is indeed wearing short sleeves. Even on that tape, the stretcher is just a vaguely rectangular, more or less white blob.<br /><br />That's a little more evidence for nothing went to UCLA on 6/25/09.<br /><br />However, could not some legality be ensured by allowing these witnesses to be not lying when they said that MJ was there that day and under their care? Does it matter? Again, no idea.
<br />The coroners van video becomes pointless if Michael didn't go to UCLA on 6/25/2009. Why would it even be created if it wasn't important?<br />If this has been planned for nearly 20 years I can't imaagine Michael not being all up in it to supervise. Does slipping away in a car in the middle of the night soundlike michael to you guys?<br />
<br /><br />Well I guess from a public point of view it doesn't, but it does seem pointless from a believer point of view because we already know that this is a hoax...the public are seeing 'the movie' we are behind the curtain...observing how the 'production' is made behind the scenes, looking at in's and out's of the hoax while the movie is being made but not yet seeing the final product. Just like in a Hollywood movie, with all the actors, directors, producers etc.<br /><br />When MJ does something it's always for a reason, this could, and probably did get people to look into the hoax, I don't know, or like Bec said it could be for fun #PRANKSTER<br /><br />Forget about a hoax within a hoax...this is an illusion within an illusion... :?<br /><br />But yes it does seem to have MJ written all over it, which is what he probably wants us to think...I don't know, MJ's unpredictability and intelligence or underestimated intelligence confuses me, never know what he'll do next.<br /><br />Which brings a new meaning to; "Where is he, to here he is again"...no, it's more like; "OMG MJ did that #GENIUS, to OMG he does it again #SUPERFRICKENGENIUS"
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."