i am grateful for bec's comment, personally speaking. i have been so confused the past 48 hours with all the additional info added to this thread and started thinking that this is too complicated to continue following! someone will post. i'll get my head around it, then another person will post something contradictory. more and more variables and hypertheticals are being thrown into the mix /cook/ (not saying you were confused bec - just me) but i am sure that there are others who are as confused / frustrated as i am regarding this thread. i have been feeling like this:<br /><br /> <br /><br />i know that i dont post amazing break throughs on this forum yet, (give me time tho ) but i believe that splitting hairs over minor things including some hypertheticals is not nessesary. this thread is going around in circles. TS has said on more than one occasion:<br /><br />
on 1321002675:
<br />As I have said already, the minor details on the “how’s” are not very important (and may never been fully understood); however, for more than one reason, the major aspects of the “how’s” should be resolved.<br />
<br /><br />in addition to this, i thought that 2 days ago a general consensus was established about there only being one ambulance, (which is also all that TS asked us to review) and the reasons why / proof was posted by souza, bec and one or two others. but we continue going around and around in circles about things and the posts that are being preserved for TS as an answer (from us as a group) are getting lost amongst all the discussion on hypertheticals...<br /><br />sorry if this post annoys anyone. i honeslty dont mean it to be. but its just how i feel. i am trying to follow as best as i can and its becoming more and more convoluted and i am not sure that it is entirely nessesary. (not judging here, just saying i am unsure we need to do disect it this agressively, but i dont know, as i am relatively new here.)<br /><br />im confused!<br /><br /> <br /><br />Looking forward to some light from TS and definitely looking forward to leaving behind 7a and moving on to 7b...<br /><br />a happy reminder to us all that TS did say that once 7a is explained / known, the rest will fall into place relatively easy (not verbatim)<br />so something for us all to look forward to!<br /><br /> party/
<br />Wednesday/SD: still no PM from you. I am waiting but I am not very patient anymore. Your choice here.<br />
<br /><br />I disagreed with you going to the media as a representative of the hoax community, you banned me from the old forum for it. I feel just as wronged by you as you seem to feel by me. I was not sneaky by joining with a new screen name as my old screen name is already used on the forum. I didn't post my blog posting about the ip address on the old forum, which was obvious by the ip address of guest that did and I have no idea whom that person was.<br /><br />I did not attack TS, I posted information about an ip address that a MJHDI chat room user with the screen name "TS" had. I posted the origins of TIAI as being a satirical article posted on the Huffington Post and then researched those involved with the article and the newspaper itself. I waver on what I personally think of TS as I am not sure about them as they have never revealed whom they are.<br /><br />TIAI Revealed, Part 1: Who Is Behind TIAI?<br />TS said: Although many have taken http://www.ThisIsAlsoIt.com (TIAI) seriously—and thought that either Michael Jackson himself or someone from the MJ camp is behind the TIAI redirects—yet many others have assumed that TIAI is merely someone playing with the feelings of MJ fans.<br />I am not asking anyone to believe what I say based upon my claim of where it came from; rather, I am asking you to let the evidence speak for itself.<br /><br />But TS never stated he/she was MJ or someone from MJ's camp.<br /><br />What he/she did say was this...<br /><br />TS: I am not going to say right now how I got this information; many would not believe me if I told you. But I will reveal this when the time is right.<br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=1924.0<br /><br />So this does not mean that TS is Michael, Marlon, or ever a member of the MJ camp. TS could be someone who was contacted in some way by Michael or a member of the camp but they could also be Michael, Marlon, or a member of the MJ camp. Everyone is entitled to assume and speculate just as I am entitled to my own beliefs on the matter. <br /><br />Before TS wrote the "TIAI Revealed" posts, I was accused of being TS and being behind TIAI. Prior to being banned, TS had redirected to 2 of my posts, linked to at least 3 of my posts in an update and mentioned me personally in another update. I was an active participant on the previous version of this forum and on the old MJHD before it was closed down. I believe Michael Jackson is alive but I don't believe some things that others do and others don't believe everything I do. We are all different people, with different life experiences, of different ages, different educational, religious, political, nationalities etc. You can not make all of us agree with one another on every subject. <br /><br />A forum is a medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged but that doesn't mean that the ideas will all be in agreement. If you only allow those whom agree with one view then you are thinking only within that box; only allowing ideas that confirm your already held beliefs. <br /><br />You want me to apologize but I can't because I don't believe that I did anything wrong and any apology from that perspective would be totally insincere. I am an honest person, sometimes brutally and I am aware of that; it is who I am. I will not even be dishonest to be a part of this forum, I just can't do it. I have not answered you previously because there is no point in opening up old wounds or continuing to argue after months of my absence from the forum.<br /><br />You, are of course free to do whatever you choose though I would hope that it isn't a ban because I am not troll and never have been. I was devastated to be banned and cut off from the rest of the members that I had built friendships with and was left feeling alone with what I know and have discovered but I am not going to beg to be allowed to participate on the forum. I do have both an interest in Michael Jackson's hoax and the members of this forum and I also do have relevant information and ideas to share.<br /><br />Peace and unity are achieved when we learn to be tolerant of those whom we don't always agree with.<br />
Okay, I agree that it’s time to wrap up 7a and move on to 7b. ;D<br /><br />I’m going to make a few closing comments regarding 7a, and then I will post 7b introduction as soon as I have it ready (it will be a new redirect, but not a new thread).<br /><br />One of the alleged shadow differences (not mentioned yet in this thread) was a shadow to the right of the person in the shot through the gate, while the shadows were to the left of the person when the ambulance was backing out. This one is rather simple: in the shot through the gate, the shadow to the right is not the shadow of the person; it is the shadow of the stretcher (but it’s hard to see, because it’s white against white).<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />The question has been asked, why we don’t have any pictures from the tour bus—surely someone on the tour bus had a camera and took pictures, right? The fact is that we DO have VIDEO from the bus. Most likely other pictures were taken, but not everyone who takes pictures puts them on the internet—especially since there are already TWO whole VIDEOS of the situation, so why bother posting a still picture? If it were the other way around: and there were still pictures on the internet, but no video—surely someone here would ask why there is no VIDEO from the tour bus? Surely in this day and age, at least one person on that tour bus would have a video camera, right??<br /><br />Another factor that I want to clear up, for those who have no experience in multi-camera live filming and post production, is a concept known as time code {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMPTE_timecode}. Without time code, two cameras will drift in time and not stay aligned during recording and/or playback. We can be quite sure that the tour bus video was not time code synchronized with any of NPG’s cameras; therefore, even if you align both videos at one point in time, you should EXPECT that the videos will not stay perfectly aligned.<br /><br />For Applehead: I already posted the following, but I guess you missed it. The camera farther right is at an angle which makes the gate look fully opened; the camera farther left is at an angle where you can see some of the gate (and therefore it looks partly closed).<br /><br />For the green screen theory: notice in the video posted that the green screen fills in the BACKGROUND, while the foreground is real life in three dimensions (although sometimes in a physical studio). So if these ambulance videos were green screened, then what is background and what is real? And what would be the purpose for that, when you can do it all in real life and not worry about anyone noticing that NOTHING happened at Carolwood on 6-25-09?<br /><br />Last but not least (let’s do it one more time): why, oh why, would there NEED to be multiple takes of the video at Carolwood? That would be extremely risky, for no benefit whatsoever; not to mention the extra time and money wasted. When Ben said “… that day and the other d[ay]”—he was not referring to a full blown practice run at Carolwood; instead, he was referring to staging the still photo (which would not even need to be done at Carolwood, so nobody would ask what’s going on).<br /><br />The only thing I have seen which even attempts to answer the “why”, is “rehearsal”. Rehearsal??? What is the PURPOSE for practice? So that you don’t make mistakes! Now what mistakes were they worried about, which caused them to need a practice run? Were they worried about running over one of the photographers, with the ambulance? If so, then a practice run would give them TWO chances to accidently run someone over, instead of just one chance. Nobody was singing a song by memory, and nobody was dancing to choreography; so nothing needed practicing.<br /><br />In the interest of reducing the confusion on this thread, I am going to ask that we close all discussion on the topic of 7a (not immediately, but as soon as I post 7b); if anyone wants to discuss this further, please post it in the ambulance section of the forum {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?board=38.0}.<br /><br />The only exception would be if ALL of the following 3 conditions are met (then you can still post in this thread during 7b or 7c).<br /><br />#1 Why, oh why …? If your answer is rehearsal, explain what would need to be practiced? What kind of potential mistake would be so devastating, that a highly risky practice run was necessary to ensure that the devastating mistake would not be made during the real thing?<br /><br />#2 Post at least one screen shot from each of the two videos, and describe specifically what discrepancy you see.<br /><br />#3 Explain why you think that the differences are not merely: difference in time, difference in angle, and/or difference in camera quality/resolution.<br />
#2 Post at least one screen shot from each of the two videos, and describe specifically what discrepancy you see.<br /><br />#3 Explain why you think that the differences are not merely: difference in time, difference in angle, and/or difference in camera quality/resolution.<br /><br />Ok....1. I've believe there in a difference in shadows on the pavement at the entrance..<br />Bens video shows a more shadows of the trees near the entrance, <br />Then we have the Starline tour bus video, which shows a different shadow on the pavement...more pronounced and distinct....(Maybe the sun changed, but it was supposed to be at the same moment)<br /><br />IMO..This could suggest a time difference between the two videos...<br /><br />B. The second photo, again is a comparison of the positions of Ben Evenstad and Chris Weiss, the NPG photographers. This clearly show a discrepency with exactly where they were positioned at the time of the two seperate videos....Once again, could suggest a delay in time, not a camera issue....God bless.<br /><br />I do have a question though....Who took the distant video of Ben taking the video...???<br /><br />We do have pictures of the ambulance taking off....so could that be from one of the fans waiting outside on the opposite side of the road.?? Has this been brought up?
<br />Applehead, that video is CUT and EDITED into the end and that so called second ambulance is the same ambulance as the first one, when it ARRIVED! Didn't you pay attention at all? There is ZERO evidence for more than one ambulance: ZERO. <br /><br />TS, here ya go:<br /><br /><br />STERS
Applehead, maybe you missed the question TS asked a gazillion times:<br /><br />[size=24pt]#1 Why, oh why …? If your answer is rehearsal, explain what would need to be practiced? What kind of potential mistake would be so devastating, that a highly risky practice run was necessary to ensure that the devastating mistake would not be made during the real thing?[/size]<br /><br />You just say things to say something, which you just confirmed yourself. If you are just posting nonsense just to 'smoke TS out' then I suggest you do that in another thread, instead of annoying and confusing people in here, who are genuinly researching.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
@Bec - Souza was right, sometimes you talk like a sailor (or something like that).<br />Souza I suggest you delete all our accounts and let us register again only after the IQ testing crash/.<br /><br />ps: before you proceed...it's just a joke errrr errrr errrr /overreacting/ /overreacting/ /overreacting/<br /><br />TS, Can't wait for the next update. The most interesting, as we're going to find out what or who was on that infamous stretcher /white flag/ /white flag/ /white flag/<br /><br /><br />as about 7a, I think it was very useful, as now we can be almost 100% sure that what ahppend on June 25th was in REAL time, real event (I mean the part with the ambulance).
Oh happy day! Gonna do a happy dance to Front's latest snippet (TS, I'm sure you've heard it ).<br /><br /><br />The explanation for the green-screen makes absolute sense and clearly shows that the events at Carolwood or UCLA were not green-screened. Thanks for slapping that possibility outta me ...I had started to drift lol.<br /><br />Looking forward to 7b ::P<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
<br />Applehead, maybe you missed the question TS asked a gazillion times:<br /><br />[size=24pt]#1 Why, oh why …? If your answer is rehearsal, explain what would need to be practiced? What kind of potential mistake would be so devastating, that a highly risky practice run was necessary to ensure that the devastating mistake would not be made during the real thing?[/size]<br /><br />You just say things to say something, which you just confirmed yourself. If you are just posting nonsense just to 'smoke TS out' then I suggest you do that in another thread, instead of annoying and confusing people in here, who are genuinly researching.<br />
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Souza what I said YESTERDAY is HONEST, and is what I think.I will not disscuss that again,and that's it.There are difference in time, difference in angle, and/or difference in camera quality/resolution,not just on what happened on 25 june 2009.It's the same with the TRIAL,with the Murray documentary and some old EVENTS that happened .<br />Now you are trying to accuse me for being AMBIGUOUS and post nonsens here on this topic??? You are trying to BLAME me,and only me,and I'm not goona be THE MAME this time,I'm sorry!!!<br />[/size]<br /><br /><br />[size=10pt]Have you even look up to this topic that has started for more than 2 F years ? Please look again and then ask yourself who is who,and who is trying to CONfuse people here!!! I'm not the one who INVENTED the ART OF DECEPTION,sorry .<br />Like most people here,I came on this forum to find out THE TRUTH,to find out [glow=red,2,300]WHY [/glow]this had to HAPPEN on 25 june 2009!!!I did not came here to talk NONsense and be the PUPPET or the TOY for SOME/one.<br />It seems to me that our Major Problem nowadays is that WE THINK TOO MUCH,and FEEL to little .Michael didn't LOVE Charlie Chaplin for no reason .He knows that what Charlie Chaplin said in The Greatest Speech Ever Made is THE TRUTH.<br />We have lost the way of FEELING because we THINK to much, and we forgot HOW TO LOVE Souza ,that's our BIGGEST problem here,not HOW Michael pulled all this hoax,for God sake,we have to STOP.[/size]<br /><br />The Greatest Speech Ever Made<br />
<br />Wednesday/SD: still no PM from you. I am waiting but I am not very patient anymore. Your choice here.<br />
<br /><br />I disagreed with you going to the media as a representative of the hoax community, you banned me from the old forum for it. I feel just as wronged by you as you seem to feel by me. I was not sneaky by joining with a new screen name as my old screen name is already used on the forum. I didn't post my blog posting about the ip address on the old forum, which was obvious by the ip address of guest that did and I have no idea whom that person was.<br /><br />I did not attack TS, I posted information about an ip address that a MJHDI chat room user with the screen name "TS" had. I posted the origins of TIAI as being a satirical article posted on the Huffington Post and then researched those involved with the article and the newspaper itself. I waver on what I personally think of TS as I am not sure about them as they have never revealed whom they are.<br /><br />TIAI Revealed, Part 1: Who Is Behind TIAI?<br />TS said: Although many have taken http://www.ThisIsAlsoIt.com (TIAI) seriously—and thought that either Michael Jackson himself or someone from the MJ camp is behind the TIAI redirects—yet many others have assumed that TIAI is merely someone playing with the feelings of MJ fans.<br />I am not asking anyone to believe what I say based upon my claim of where it came from; rather, I am asking you to let the evidence speak for itself.<br /><br />But TS never stated he/she was MJ or someone from MJ's camp.<br /><br />What he/she did say was this...<br /><br />TS: I am not going to say right now how I got this information; many would not believe me if I told you. But I will reveal this when the time is right.<br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=1924.0<br /><br />So this does not mean that TS is Michael, Marlon, or ever a member of the MJ camp. TS could be someone who was contacted in some way by Michael or a member of the camp but they could also be Michael, Marlon, or a member of the MJ camp. Everyone is entitled to assume and speculate just as I am entitled to my own beliefs on the matter. <br /><br />Before TS wrote the "TIAI Revealed" posts, I was accused of being TS and being behind TIAI. Prior to being banned, TS had redirected to 2 of my posts, linked to at least 3 of my posts in an update and mentioned me personally in another update. I was an active participant on the previous version of this forum and on the old MJHD before it was closed down. I believe Michael Jackson is alive but I don't believe some things that others do and others don't believe everything I do. We are all different people, with different life experiences, of different ages, different educational, religious, political, nationalities etc. You can not make all of us agree with one another on every subject. <br /><br />A forum is a medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged but that doesn't mean that the ideas will all be in agreement. If you only allow those whom agree with one view then you are thinking only within that box; only allowing ideas that confirm your already held beliefs. <br /><br />You want me to apologize but I can't because I don't believe that I did anything wrong and any apology from that perspective would be totally insincere. I am an honest person, sometimes brutally and I am aware of that; it is who I am. I will not even be dishonest to be a part of this forum, I just can't do it. I have not answered you previously because there is no point in opening up old wounds or continuing to argue after months of my absence from the forum.<br /><br />You, are of course free to do whatever you choose though I would hope that it isn't a ban because I am not troll and never have been. I was devastated to be banned and cut off from the rest of the members that I had built friendships with and was left feeling alone :(with what I know and have discovered but I am not going to beg to be allowed to participate on the forum. I do have both an interest in Michael Jackson's hoax and the members of this forum and I also do have relevant information and ideas to share.<br /><br />Peace and unity are achieved when we learn to be tolerant of those whom we don't always agree with.<br />
<br /><br />[size=10pt]Thank you very much for your WISE words . You are NOT ALONE, I LOVE you !![/size]
<br />Oh contraire, Miss G, I think it's very called for.<br /><br />I do not have any respect for half-brained, half-assed "theories". No one gets an A for effort in the real world and I do not agree that pure participation in any form is helpful. All things are not created equal and to suggest such is to trivialize the efforts of a lot of really good, really smart, really dedicated individuals... who have all largely abandoned this thread as of recent. They, obviously, can bite their tongue much better then I but you won't convince me for one second that they don't feel exactly as I do.<br /><br />Now I'll get a thousand whiny replies about how I'm intimidating others out of posting which is utter nonsense. Those replies that I invariably get are attempts to manipulate me into smiling and nodding at every bullshit crack pot post that we have to suffer through while it reduces our real estate value. Now if this little rant causes someone to pause and THINK before hitting reply now, and going back to check that they have a legitimate theory, or real evidence before wasting everyone's time again, then great. I say go TEAM.<br />
<br /> /bravo/ /bravo/ /bravo/ Thank you Bec for speaking your mind because I was becoming extremely frustrated and was strongly considering not participating in this thread any longer. <br />This is really starting to become ridiculous, I read some of the theories (that have absolutely no supporting evidence by the way) and I go /overreacting/ Can we please stick to coherent theories and keep in mind two basic things: 1) Michael is NOT dead and 2) Michael is a human being. TS once asked us to come up with at least 2 or 3 things to support our theories that could be held up in a court of law; these things do not include feelings, dreams, and theories with absolutely NO evidence, as 'entertaining' as they may be. The majority has already agreed that there was only ONE ambulance at Carolwood on 6/25/09, but I am open to theories and opinions about why there were two or more AS LONG AS they are not theories that have been debunked repeatedly (i.e. you can see another ambulance inside the gates at the end of the video). I do not mean to be rude or offend anyone in anyway, but Bec and I cannot be the only ones who are frustrated and I have also noticed a number of members who have stopped participating in this thread, so I just wanted to speak up and offer my opinions in case a few of them are too nice to say so.
<br />I would like it very much if we could move forward with the task at hand, sticking to the assignment as given by the thread starter TS. But not letting emotions (whether soupy or nasty) become a distraction, sticking to cool-headedness and respect for all. Love tempered by firmness should rule the forum, as MJ exemplifies with his life.<br /><br /><br />Bec, I'm not mad at you (nor could I be), it's just you weren't saying clearly who was causing what you didn't like. And that WAS creating CONFUSION for me, since you said all the smart members had left the thread. Perhaps I shouldn't have taken it personally. I'm not the type to sulk or play games. I value openness, respect and a big helping of humor MOST of all. I realize you like to shoot from the hip. <br /> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mnFsrmsA94&feature=related I'm the guy at 1:23 that says, "I got no gun, I got no gun!" pale/ <br /><br /><br />Okay I've got that off my chest; I'm good now! bounce/ typing/ <br /><br /><br />SD, thank you for your explanation of your perspective.<br /><br /><br />On with the show, This Is It!
@MJonmind, I was trying not to make it personal... because it's not.<br /><br />Also, to be specific, I said:<br />
All things are not created equal and to suggest such is to trivialize the efforts of a lot of really good, really smart, really dedicated individuals... who have all largely abandoned this thread as of recent.
<br /><br />I word things very carefully and very specifically even while hip shooting. I did not say all period, I said all largely and that was accurate at the time of posting.<br /><br />As far as respect, as much as I hate doing this, "respect is not given, it's earned". The quote is so incredibly accurate for moments like this. You do not get respect just by breathing and no one's posts have merit just because they can coordinate hand-mouse-post button.<br /><br />But I agree with your sentiment re: on topic. I'm off to work. I'll participate in more relevant format tonight.<br />
Well, i always thought that when Ben spoke of the " that day and the other day " referred to the photo and that is if it is conducted that day, which makes me think that the person in the photo is Michael posing the day June 25 we saw the proceedings of Ben and his group to make people believe that the photo was taken that day
<br />Oh contraire, Miss G, I think it's very called for.<br /><br />I do not have any respect for half-brained, half-assed "theories". <br />
<br />It shows. You don´t have respect for anything that doesn´t lift up to your expectations. That does not mean that you are right. What you call "half-brained" theory meant a lot of time and work for the person who came up with it and that person has the right to post it here and participate with the tools the person has.<br /><br />Your theory is not better nor more worth or "smart" than the simplest silly question or theory that can come across.<br /><br />Honestly...is this a life or death task? As far as i am awared, we are here to SHARE theories and find whatever can be the truth or a slight hint of what COULD have happend.<br /><br />
on 1322023578:
<br />No one gets an A for effort in the real world and I do not agree that pure participation in any form is helpful. All things are not created equal and to suggest such is to trivialize the efforts of a lot of really good, really smart, really dedicated individuals... who have all largely abandoned this thread as of recent. <br />
<br /><br />In the real world people do get A for efforts. Every day.<br /><br />Really good? really smart? on what terms, Bec? On the terms of collecting info in a thread created in a forum by a member called TS? That´s your definition of a smart person or dedicated individual? Apparently it is. You judge others in a negative way. Just prejudices and for such trivial issues.<br /><br />
on 1322023578:
<br />Now I'll get a thousand whiny replies about how I'm intimidating others out of posting which is utter nonsense. Those replies that I invariably get are attempts to manipulate me into smiling and nodding at every bullshit crack pot post that we have to suffer through while it reduces our real estate value. Now if this little rant causes someone to pause and THINK before hitting reply now, and going back to check that they have a legitimate theory, or real evidence before wasting everyone's time again, then great. I say go TEAM.<br />
<br /><br />You are awared that you are intimidating others out of posting, as written in your post. And no, nobody attempts to manipulate you into smiling and nodding at every bullshit crack pot post, YOU are the one with that mind set.<br /><br />I don´t agree in the way you show your opinions and with your opinions but respect your right to tell about it. Let others work their right as well without falling in to names and calling people half brained.<br /><br />It´s not that serious, Bec.
<br />I can't figure out what the logo is on the door of the car but it doesn't look like either the LAFD or UCLA EMS logo to me but maybe I have just looked at the photo for too long. :shock:<br /><br /><br /><br />Any ideas or am I simply mistaken?<br />
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."