Posted by: MaryK<br /><br />Quote from: leilani81 on Today at 01:53:12 PM<br /><br /> Regards to Michael Leaving his kids with just the Nanny, Kai Chase Bodyguards... when Prince was born, didn't he leave Prince in the care of a nanny while he went out of country for business? and in 2001 when he went to the UK? or did he take them along with him?<br /><br /><br />Yes of course you are right. I was just thinking that the whole situation on June 25 must have been very stressful and confusing for the children (even though I think they knew what was going to happen). So it was just a thought, a feeling...you know...a mother's heart :icon_e_wink:<br />
Hmmm, interesting.<br /><br />I remember when Murray got handcuffed (as Michael did get handcuffed being an innocent man...) when the jury decided that Murray was guilty. <br /><br />Please refresh my mind: why did Michael get handcuffed back then? He never got a "guilty" veredict as far as we know.<br /><br />And again, what about the man who that night came or left in a car and looked right to the surveilance camera? :icon_e_confused:
<br />... The verdict itself doesn't exist (thanks to "alleged") which could make the argument that the whole trial was just an imitation of a real court case and NOT real itself.
<br /><br />But if it was not a real court, not operating under real judicial laws (and was merely an entertainment movie), then WHY the need for the word "alleged"? NO OTHER MOVIE (or TV show) has been found, using the world "alleged"--so why would it be needed in this case, if there was no need to in other court movies?<br /><br />We could perhaps write it off as merely a hoax "clue"; but that seems like a rather shallow explanation, especially since it came at the END of the whole trial--where many clues had already been given, and what was the need to slip in one more clue at the end? Just for fun? And even if one more last minute clue was needed: why would "alleged" be a prime candidate for the final clue? Why not something, anything--other than a LEGAL term, that covers LEGAL situations??<br /><br /> :judge-smiley:<br />
<br /><br />The mock trial was a suggestion, one that I'm not sure if it had been mentioned before. So we've determined that the word "alleged" has not been used in film/tv during a verdict reading (from what we didn't find). If the trial was a combination of hoax AND sting court, the word alleged covers entrapment issues while basically stating out in the open that it's a hoax court as well because it means Murray was sentenced without being charged. So it wasn't just for fun, I think it was a vital hoax clue and it makes sense that the "final" clue during the trial was dropped during the verdict reading. <br /><br />"NO OTHER MOVIE...other court movies" ...interesting wording there TS.
<br />... But we're talking about the specific date of June 25th here and I don't see what would make it NECESSARY for MJ to fly half way around the world. Speaking of Bahrain, you hinted a while ago TS, that it was one of the places MJ was hiding out in. So MJ flew for hours and hours right after everything went down? That doesn't ring true for me.<br />
<br /><br />My statement about driving to Bahrain in a car was a joke. Nevertheless, like Elvis, MJ has probably been in hiding at multiple locations during his dead life (:icon_lol:). The jet left LAX in the morning, hours before kick-off time. So by noon, MJ could've been back on the ground in some other city, state, or even country--whether or not he was enroute to Bahrain. Then he could watch, and direct remotely if needed, while being far from higher risks that would exist at Carolwood or UCLA.<br />
<br /><br />Very true, I think the mysterious LAX flight left at around 9:00 that morning. So I agree, plenty of time to get settled somewhere else. But that's not necessarily what MJ did.<br /><br />The post you bumped from December 2011, the video of Martin Blount - he claims he recognized MJ immediately. There was no question or confusion as to who the patient was, according to his account. So for the "realism" argument, it places MJ at Carolwood that day (assuming it wasn't a double or dummy). And it does seem that every precaution was taken to ensure MJ wouldn't be spotted at UCLA - people blocking direct shots of the stretcher, the fire alarm was pulled, etc. The fire alarm was also pulled the 1st (?) day of the trial, right at 2:26 p.m. now that I think about it.
I keep remembering the initial description given by the paramedics as that of an emaciated unrecognizable man that doesn’t fit with the pictures they circulated of him on the stretcher. That LAX flight fits the timing as well as the secrecy surrounding its lone occupant. Michael would have had time to be where ever he was destined to be and still be able to monitor the goings on after the hoax got its footing. No one knows where that plane landed except those who needed to know. Seems feasible to me. He could be anywhere.
Remind that the morning of June 25 84 flights were delayed by "bad weather" at the Los Angeles airport. The Airbus aircraft flight AI318 MX297 that comes out of the to the 8:44 am and arrives in Guadalajara, Mexico to the 1:39 p.m.<br /><br />
Route: From (LAX) Los Angeles, CA, US to (GDL) Guadalajara, MX<br />Duration: 3h 05m<br />Equipment: Airbus Industrie A318 (Scheduled)<br />On-time Rating: 4,8 of 5 What is this?<br />Codeshares: This flight is marketed as a codeshare flight by the following carrier(s):<br />(QF) Qantas Airways 3863<br />(NZ) Air New Zealand 4207<br />(AA) American Airlines 8323<br />
<br />Departure Status Details<br />Airport: (LAX) Los Angeles International Airport<br />City: Los Angeles, CA, US<br />Scheduled: 8:30 AM - Thu Jun 25, 2009<br />Actual: 8:44 AM - Thu Jun 25, 2009 (runway)<br />Took off runway 3 min later than scheduled runway departure<br />Terminal: B<br />Local Time: 6:50 PM - Sat Apr 24, 2010<br />
<br />Arrival Information Arrival Status Details<br />Airport: (GDL) Miguel Hidal Airport<br />City: Guadalajara, MX<br />Scheduled: 1:35 PM - Thu Jun 25, 2009<br />Estimated: 1:39 PM - Thu Jun 25, 2009 (runway)<br />Terminal: 1<br />Local Time: 8:50 PM - Sat Apr 24, 2010
I'm tearing my hair out here! :Pulling_hair:<br /><br />I remember finding those LAX charts early on in my hoax life and thinking it was just too convenient ( aka too good to be true!) to find this suspicious flight and it's possible implications!<br /><br />TS is trying really hard to take us along the route of MJ leaving by plane early on the morning of 25th June, while still having the day's events 'acted out' in some way, for the sake of realism, for witnesses to recall later. He's mentioned this on more than one occasion. This necessitates that 'something/someone', ideally similar to MJ, was on the bed, on the stretcher, in the ambulance, at UCLA, in the helicopter, at the coroners, for those witnesses to recall later ..... but I don't think we ever reached a conclusion on the 'who/what/if anything went to UCLA' level did we?<br /><br />That 'something/someone' would have to be realistic enough for any 'accidental' witnesses to think it was a dead or dying MJ, (this also brings into question yet again just HOW MANY people were actually in on it that day) - OR .... it could be so unremarkable that if spotted, or uncovered, wouldn't be connected in the viewer's mind with MJ events unfolding. How about a 'resuscitation Annie' perhaps?! :michael-jackson: There must be some of these kicking around ambulances/hospitals for training purposes!<br /><br />Honestly, there are so many ways this day could have been played out - do we really stand a chance of discovering the truth?! :icon_redface: All I know is my preferred method is the one TS tries the hardest to refute - i.e. MJ himself playing dead or dying for most, if not all of the day! :icon_eek:<br /><br />Also, what's the point of him flying elsewhere that day? He'd have to be in disguise to avoid the risk of ruining the whole thing, and if he's going to be disguised, he may as well stay at home with the kids!<br /><br />As I said, :Pulling_hair: But loving that you're spending time here TS, wrapping this up!<br /><br />ADDED (a few minutes later!): All the court talk reminds me of something that's often run through my mind - people here have often expressed the belief that MJ is in full control of everything, but I sometimes wonder if he just set the ball rolling with his 'death', and he's been watching events pan out the same as the rest of us with regard to the trial etc? Sort of like - I'll pretend to die, leave lots of clues that it's a hoax and just sit back and see how far the system will take this thing without any real concrete evidence that I'm even dead. Just a thought!
But I'm wanting to put this conclusion on a more solid basis, than has been done before, in order to complete Level 7 solidly.
<br /><br />So it’s etched in stone then (it'd be nice finally :fresse:), MJ left in the jet hours before Murray ‘went to the bathroom’. Wherever he went, Bahrain or countless options, he was in communication with the ‘team members’. Guessing it had to have been a hospice patient who stayed at the house perhaps weeks before already, and Murray or someone other qualified, perhaps even had him all hooked up for propofol to convince bodyguards, who were NEVER allowed upstairs. In Elvis’ case they did facial surgeries to help the patient look like Elvis. Remember the MJ autopsy said the guy had tattooed eye-liners, lips, hair-line, etc. EMT and everyone at UCLA was so concerned to just cover their own ass, they didn’t wonder about odd things, same as at the trial. I would think real lawyers would have jumped right up and cried ‘foul’ after hearing ‘alleged’ read, but perhaps it shows the utter respect for authority they all have, and not thinking for themselves. How long MJ would need to stay away from LA, is the next question, depending on if he was there in person at the memorial, etc.<br /><br />So I’m guessing from the TMZ naked men story, that the naked truth was that there were 18 ‘dreamteamers’ that pulled this hoax all off, including MJ. :icon_e_smile:<br /><br />I'm hearing ya MJonmind. But not too sure what to think about the latest TMZ story tho. What would you make of the fart at the end? maybe something smelled off in that whole death house scenario?<br /><br />I've been waiting and watching for this sting to happen in front of our eyes for a long time TS. Perhaps it already has behind the scenes where we can't see into yet? We've looked at so many of the people who were around about MJ's life and business and I'm still none the wiser as to who is the target of this sting. Not exactly sure who will be exposed, but I have always liked to imagine sneddon getting that much deserved butt kicking, but probably he is only a pawn, no more than a hired goon. I can't help but think of the killer thriller speech and MJ....You certainly did out think them. MJ emerging from the inside of a spider residing in a graveyard during Thriller in TII. A perfectly spun web that would have caught quite a few greedy hands in it's sticky hoax strands. <br />
I'm with my usual crew on this one.<br /><br />There has not been a suggested motive that satisfies why MJ had to leave LA. As curls said, he would need a disguise to ensure no one who wasn't in on it would recognize him and "spill the beans" (as TS has been fond of saying) if he sought to escape via a public facility (airport). As she said, if he has to be disguised, he might as well disguise himself and go to UCLA. <br /><br />All eyes would be focused on that stretcher whenever it was visible (like a magic trick, attract your attention here, while the key object is being hidden right before your eyes there). MJ could be dressed as a paramedic, his own body guard, even CM (ha, on stilts) and accompanying the stretcher could be argued as the SAFEST position in which for him to hide. <br /><br />Envision: disguised MJ EMT pushes stretcher into UCLA. Not in on it Dr. meets them at the door, being nosy and "helpful", spies dummy on stretcher and looks at entourage for explanation... "we are just the decoy, man, the paparazzi are thick out there ya know". Not-in-on-it Dr, disappointed, shuffles off to search for "real" dying MJ stretcher... just to be, you know, helpful .<br /><br />Repeat as needed and he's in like Flynn.<br /><br />Once "the body" is transported all the way to the coroner's office, he can chill til dark and then make his way home (Neverland) at his leisure. <br /><br />We are speculating about the most famous man in the world who has made it his regular operating procedure to only be in the public eye when he WANTS to be for the past 30+ years. WHY, suddenly, do we accept that it would be SO difficult for MJ to say on the DL (down low thank you-back).<br /><br />It's one thing for MJ to stay under cover when being transported by vehicle, something he did routinely in his "live" life for decades... and a whole other ball o' wax for him to do it at an airport post 9/11 when security is TIGHT, including body imaging etc.<br /><br />Considering security at airports in the US:<br />
Prior to the 1970s American airports had minimal security arrangements to prevent aircraft hijackings. Measures were introduced starting in the late 1960s after several high-profile hijackings.<br />Sky marshals were introduced in 1970, but there were insufficient numbers to protect every flight and hijackings continued to take place. Consequently in late 1972, the Federal Aviation Administration required that all airlines begin screening passengers and their carry-on baggage by January 5, 1973. This screening was generally contracted to private security companies. Private companies would bid on these contracts. The airline that had operational control of the departure concourse controlled by a given checkpoint would hold that contract. Although an airline would control the operation of a checkpoint, oversight authority was held by the FAA. C.F.R. Title 14 restrictions did not permit a relevant airport authority to exercise any oversight over checkpoint operations.<br />The September 11 attacks prompted even tougher regulations, such as limiting the number of and types of items passengers could carry[35] on board aircraft and requiring increased screening for passengers who fail to present a government issued photo ID.<br />The Aviation and Transportation Security Act generally required that by November 19, 2002 all passenger screening must be conducted by Federal employees. As a result, passenger and baggage screening is now provided by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), part of the Department of Homeland Security. Provisions to improve the technology for detecting explosives were included in the Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004. Often, security at category X airports, the U.S. largest and busiest as measured by volume of passenger traffic, are provided by private contractors.[36][37] Because of the high volume of passenger traffic, category X airports are considered vulnerable targets for terrorism.<br />Noticing the demand for new technology in airport security, General Electric (GE) started to develop the Secure Registered Traveler System. The new system would use newly developed technology such as automated carry-on scanning, automatic biological pathogen detection, millimeter-wave full body scanning and a quadrupole resonance carpet that would detect threats in shoes without having to take them off. The SRT program also works with smartcard technology along with fingerprint technology to help verify passengers. The fingerprint scanner also detects for explosive material traces on the person's fingers.<br />With the increase in security screening, some airports saw long queues for security checks. To alleviate this, airports created Premium lines for passengers traveling in First or Business Class, or those who were elite members of a particular airline's Frequent Flyer program.<br />The "screening passengers by observation techniques" (SPOT) program is operating at some U.S. airports.[38][39][40]
<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security<br /><br />Body scanning, shoe detection mats, fingerprint scanners? And MJ is supposed to get through all this with minimal risk? I don't think so.<br /><br />He could skip all that, for sure, but he'd have to identify himself as MJ and there goes the whole hoax.<br /><br />So, out of the two offered possible scenarios offered, WHERE is MJ wearing a disguise in order to slip away LESS risky: UCLA or (any) airport? <br /><br />I'd say UCLA, where they don't body scan you or take your fingerprints, nor do you have to pass through security checks.<br /><br />So we have no motive, and we have a rat's nest of trouble with invasive government security. He'd need a disguise anywhere, as already stated, but a disguise would be MORE risky at a place set up to discover if you're wearing a disguise, with the technology in place to expose it, and potential criminal charges for doing so.<br /><br />To board a plane you need to produce a photo ID, which needs to match your appearance. If you do not have a photo ID, you can still board, but before you are allowed on, you become subject to even more intense security including the potential of an "interview" (questioning) and a physical body search/pat down. If one wants to argue that MJ had an ID created that looked like him in his disguise, complete with fake name and identity, now we are talking federal crime: fake ID.<br /><br />Yes, this is true of even private planes. Post 9/11 the airports do not screw around with security. You have to prove you are not on some terrorist watch list or other no-fly list. You have to. Everyone. No exceptions.<br /><br />The airport theory just isn't realistic considering the consequences. So we have no stated motive AND an intense level of risk of ID being discovered with the airport scenario.<br /><br />So why are we supposed to accept JJ's "slip up" as a legitimate clue when it doesn't pass the smell test? Reliable sources are not reliable if their offered information doesn't make sense. If Katherine Jackson tells me the sky is purple, am I to believe her? NO, because this statement is not reconcilable with information that is already established as fact.<br /><br />Even reliable sources are sometimes unreliable. This is why we ought to think for ourselves as investigators, and DO!
wow, i so hope we'll get to the bottom of this and will one day know the truth...MJ COME OOOOON! :smiley-vault-misc-150: :icon_albino: Thank you TS for helping us out here.. <br /><br />in my head the events that took place on June 25th did not require for Michael to actually stay in L.A. and that whole mysterious flight combined with JJ's slip-up, to me, is the first and biggest clue, when thinking about the events that took place on THAT day cronologically. To me the slip-up and the flight were the concrete whispers (or shouts) to our direction, to get the attention of people, of the future hoaxers.. THAT to me is what got the ball rolling.. it had to be obvious... I admit that during these 3 years with the clues becoming more subtle and almost unnoticable at times, it feels like too big of a deal (or yes, too good to be true) to actually be taken for a serious hint, if you know what i mean.. at times I've been like naaaaah, that can't be it... it's too LOUD.. but I've come to think of it as something with a full-on purpose to start us wondering, a kick-start for the hoax.. it was no mistake. then after that, no wonder the clues have been subtler.. <br /><br />And I don't know about you guys, but I havent seen one picture of that day with MJ or anything even remotely like MJ on the way from Carolwood to UCLA... on a stretcher, on the bed, under the bed, on the floor, inside the house, outside the house, inside the hospital, outside the hospital, in the ambulance, while being moved from place to place....I've seen 'something' there, but it could be anything or anybody or no-body. I personally don't think Michael went to the hospital. It is crazy with the lack of decent pictures, of any proof, actually, when considering the fact that it was the biggest star of the universe that just passed away, and with supposedly all the paparazzis of the world there trying to snap a shot.. We do have the photoshopped pics, true.. but that's exactly what it is. <br /><br />We've had the strange funeral and the Memorial.. wont go into detail of how i feel about that.. but those as well got people wondering is this for real..<br /><br />With the court and the whole CM part of this thing I have to say i believe in illusion. Certain events took place for real, but some obviously didn't. The trial was real to a certain extent as in it did happen and it was broadcasted live for all the world to see.. but what was said and done in that court room starting with certain witnesses and in my opinion many other players in that house of justice was scripted, wasn't real.. A sting court, yes probably, to right some wrongs and get to the bottom of this rotten system (that sucks) and expose the wrongdoers for good.. I think we're still waiting on the whole thing to unfold to what really is/was the goal behind it.. who exactly of the participants, the characters that played along in the trial were in on it and who maybe weren't, i dont think we'll ever find out with this amount of knowledge we've got. some were probably lead on to believe certain things, so they could testify with confidence in ther words, some were plain actors.. maybe we don't need to know who exactly was and who was not. We need to know CM didn't kill MJ, CM is probably not a real person but a fictional character, he is not in jail, nobody is. I have a feeling there was/is something going on behind the curtains that in order to play out right in the name of Justice needed MJ to appear dead. Times are a changing, but sadly the systems hasn't. So even if he started to plan this 20 years ago, the objects of the sting are still there.. Some players may have changed but principles haven't. He's cunning, he's been planning this for all we know for a long time.. Sting and the involvement of higher bureaus ables so many things in this hoax and anserws so many unanswered questions. (for example how he was able to leave L.A) actually I'm confident the FBI and maybe other bureaus are involved in this and while MJ agreed to play along (or maybe even suggested the whole sting and brought forward the evidence he unmistakably has of the foul play and disgusting scenarios behind the industry and the whole system (starting from Sneddon to Mottola etc the forces behind that) he being the GENIUS he is, saw the opportunity here to truly become larger than life and give the world the greatest show on earth. <br /><br />He's a master of disguise and when the world already thinks he's dead, imo it's not so difficult for him to travel around and change places. I hope these past years he's been living a life he maybe hasn't been able to before, maybe he got the chance with this hoax to, at least for a little while, experience something different from his life in a fishbowl.. <br /><br />I don't even know if this is what i believe. and i can't say i'm sure or even almost sure about anything i wrote above.. but i am sure that the alleged death of MJ on the alleged date of 25th of June did not take place. that's all i know. <br /><br /> :icon_e_confused: :moonwalk_:
I, also, can't come up with a reason as to why there was a NEED for him to fly out anywhere...but then again, we don't know all the background planning as far as needs and/or wants. But, as far as risk involved in flying out anywhere in a private plane...I have to disagree that it would be too risky. I personally know someone who does this quite frequently (travels in a private jet) and doesn't go through ANY airport security....but, instead, security is done through other avenues, as per state/federal laws.<br /><br />Here is an article published in 2010 in The New York Times that addresses this very topic: "The Private Way Around the Checkpoints" http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/business/09road.html?_r=0<br /><br />
<br />There is a way to pretty much avoid the security hassle at the nation’s 450 or so commercial airports: Fly instead on a business jet or any other private aircraft. (O.K., most of us don’t have that option.)<br /><br />But it is not generally known that, as the Transportation Security Administration said in a proposed set of rules in late 2008, “with few exceptions, T.S.A. does not currently require security programs” for general aviation aircraft operators.<br /><br />.....<br /><br />Most general aviation operations, including business aircraft flights, operate from thousands of secondary airports, most without commercial airline service and T.S.A. checkpoints. In general, private aircraft operators ensure their own security, usually under the aegis of the pilot and the company flying the plane.<br /><br />In most cases, a passenger for a business jet simply walks, or is driven, to the door of the plane and boards without going through a metal detector or a pat-down. The industry points out that its record in security has been excellent.<br />
<br /><br />Again, this in NO way means that MJ flew out on June 25th....just that IF he did, IMO, the risk would be minimal to non-existent. I'm sure that passenger info must have been recorded somewhere with some govt agency....but then again, IF the FBI is/was helping him out, then this wouldn't be a problem....any 'alias' would have sufficed and we know he's had a few.<br /><br />Although I'm still unsure about whether or not he left on a plane 'that day'....I can see the logic of it being too risky for him to remain at Carolwood, since that location would be considered a 'hot spot' once the show got on the road (i.e. there would've been no telling when/if police/investigators were going to show up to begin investigations, take any witness testimony, etc). Remaining anywhere in or around Carolwood, IMO, would've been pretty risky. <br /><br />Maybe his destination 'that day' was neither the airport nor UCLA?<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
A realistic dummy or someone else in disguise for appearance sake (stage makeup & prosthetics, etc.) could have easily been mistaken for MJ on a stretcher being that everyone was in a state of shock; and the body being transported was reportedly already deceased on the scene though taken to the hospital to continue being worked on until the family arrived. He or it would have been for all purposes, lying motionless. That seems easy enough to pull off.
<br />... The word, "alleged" is close to the word, "allegations". We all know that particular word points to one <br />part of Michael's complicated and pained life. So perhaps, "alleged" was used as a nod or reference to the 2005 trial. Instead of the legal <br />ramification we are trying to make it out to be. ...
<br /><br />Was the word "alleged" or "allegations" used in the 2005 VERDICT? If not, then that is hardly a parallel or nod or reference to 2005 (at least not the only reason). Instead, alleged could be used throughout the Murray trial, before the verdict, if it was merely a reference to 2005.<br />
<br /><br />So let's have another go at listening to the verdict:<br /><br /><br /><br />Judge Michael E. Pastor (I love that name for some reason).......he goes on to tell the jury that there is indeed a typo involving the<br /> "alleged incident"......the original date of June 9, 2009 was corrected by juror #3 and June 25, 2009 written in with some "squiggles after that" (should be initials, but who's paying attention anyways). My point is that even before the verdict was read, the word "alleged" was used by the judge himself. The fact that the date was written incorrectly is a mystery....9 and 25 are not easy numbers to mess up. But, that's for another discussion. The word, "alleged" was not used in the 2005 verdict. Nor can we find it used in any, "other movie (or TV show)"......however, I suspect somewhere, in some movie or show it has been used in a verdict reading. Otherwise, why bother asking....to prove your point, TS? You prove your points quite well without the use of others. The moment the verdict was read in 2009 (Nov. 7th, btw)....we all picked up on the word, "allege". Being guilty of a crime against an alleged victim of an alleged incident....sounds like the US courts at times. <br />The only reason I brought up 2005 was that the two words are related. 2005 is talked about endlessly with the word, <br />"allegation". Yet, in 2009, nobody caught on that the word, "allege" was used in the verdict.....well, not the general public anyways. I just find it interesting, that's all. I think throughout this hoax, not just the trial, there have been many word games. Mostly put into place so when BAM does happen, they can be pointed to as an obvious give-a-way of not being a real death for Michael. I believe bases have been fully covered. Even if we hoaxers managed to sort things out a little too soon, we have been thrown off track more than once, or shall I say fell down many a rabbit hole. I still condone the notion of some sort of ARG...however, not all. In some way, there must have been some serious stuff to expose/correct/rectify .... whatever you want to call it. Jermaine's slip-up about the airport did seem more like a confirmation of sorts....but what airport? We assume LAX....I don't think so. We assume that just because he went to an airport, he left town. Again, I don't think so.....at least not right away (if at all). I think it was our old friend Blackjack that once said; Michael has everyone so convinced he's dead, he could walk out in public and nobody would believe it's him. Michael told us his disguises are so good he could fool his mother. He could have been in the scene the entire time....the dude hanging out the helicopter even....we'd never know. We won't know until Michael wants us to. If an illusion was place on June 25th, the turn would have been made in public view. When all is said and done, the court papers/records/recordings (whether real, sting or hoax) all show the word, "allege" or "alleged". Sometimes, I think history will show we here were alleged to have happened, lol. Is it real, or is it Memorex? I don't know......I'll leave that to the experts. <br /><br />Blessings Always
Yes, BTC, that's done by ID. The VIP has photo ID registered with the proper authorities (TSA) prior. So the TSA, or someone involved with the TSA would have to be involved, and then you are adding another key person at another key government agency to be in the know. And still we lack motive.<br /><br />Maybe he hitched a ride in the cement truck that went into Neverland shortly after 6/25/09? That'd be easy enough to accomplish. Who would suspect the cement truck to contain KOP?<br /><br />As reminded a few times, he had to be back in LA in time for the burial to do Dave Dave on LKL. So we have, allegedly, MJ flying once on or slightly before 6/25/09, and then another time between 6/25/09 and 9/3/09. By accepting one as truth, if you're going to stick with the established truths we have so far, you almost have to accept both, unless he flew somewhere that was within reasonable driving distance, in which case why fly in the first place?<br /><br />The hoax was so well done that NO ONE was looking for MJ anywhere other then on a stretcher or in the morgue on and shortly following 6/25/09... so the purported "risk" is not easily apparent to me in the "MJ went to UCLA" scenario.<br /><br />It changes the least amount of things from the original story. It allows first responders accuracy in reporting events. It allows first responders to be reasonably truthful when answering questions regarding MJ at the scene that day. It allows a first person perspective for MJ acting as director, it allows seamless and reliably private communication (see below) between him and his on site team to respond to live time, real world challenges and road blocks they may encounter along the way. It also allows the "official story" to be somewhat truthful and allows for some natural blurring of the illusion with reality, making it all the more difficult to unravel. If MJ could EVER be located in any place OTHER then UCLA or the morgue that day, the whole thing would have been ruined, immediately. That's the biggest risk of all. No one can be in two places at once, and this is one universally accepted truth in our universe, so MJ being with the team on site that day removes ALL potential risk of him being identified any where else, and therefore his hoax being undeniably exposed on day 1.<br /><br />Regarding ensuring privacy, communications can be intercepted. Anything other then live, private communication risks being overheard or intercepted by an unintended third party. If ANYONE unintended heard communication between MJ and his on site team that day, the whole thing would be ruined.<br /><br />If TS wants to argue TPTB were looking for MJ, then it is natural to accept there is some risk of them listening in on or intercepting his communications. One would even think his house and vehicles would be bugged. If they want to keep tabs on him and his movements, they can and will. How could he risk electronic communication with his team that day? If he were to leave for a remote location, he would have to utilize electronic methods to communicate, all of which carry the risk of eavesdropping. <br /><br />The way I see it, taking all of these things into consideration, it would be the LEAST risky for him to remain with the team, communicate live and in person, and be exactly where it was being reported at the time. <br /><br />Do we believe it reasonable to expect the possibility of someone rushing up and ripping his mask off? Same thing could have happened at LKL with Dave Dave yet they did that anyway... a stunt for seemingly much less important reasons then the kick off of the hoax.<br /><br />We always said, watch the kids. Wherever they go, that's where he is. We expected them to be shipped off to "boarding school" over seas in the days and weeks following 6/25/09. Never happened. Reportedly, the kids have pretty much stayed in the LA area this whole time. But who knows?
If FBI is in, things can be arranged also at an airport.<br />It's a matter of checking in with the right people and VIP line.<br />There's more people flying across the continent or beyond that have not been checked on a regular level.<br /><br />Na, the question is WHY would MJ have to leave.<br /><br />Potential reasons:<br />1) to avoid any risk / to not endanger the foreseen outcome e.g.<br />2) there's no need for him to be present <br />e.g. if<br />- tasks are 100% assigned to a co- / vice-director<br />- tasks don't need any of HIS supervision<br />- tasks will be executed as foreseen anyway<br />- he has no live influence on what happens in case the script is not being followed.<br /><br />I`d think that somebody "fit for the job" of executive supervision engaged in taking the key position of the team, making it feasible for MJ to get out of any focal point of present tense the moment the world concentrated their apperception of MJ becoming "all of a sudden" and then being - accepted or not - past.<br />Time warp of the finest.<br /><br />FBI taking over from the moment the ambulance left, steering the complete UCLA chapter up to coroner garage entry would explain that MJ could be elsewhere and did not need to be present.<br /><br />TS said that court was a little bit of everything: hoax, sting, entertainment.<br />Hoax court is manifested many times in videos, boards, blogs. Entertainment was produced during live broadcasting. Sting IMHO was directed against those parts in the hoax that were not "alleged". <br /><br />There's a reason for each and every participant that he/she could be target of a sting.<br />Court system , the Superior Court as well as the Californian Judges on a separate privileged payroll have seen scandals.<br />The Sheriff could be a target. The coroner. The media. The media. The witnesses - medical research specialists faking their studies for $$$ but influencing drug production and consumption on a worldwide scale.<br /><br />We discussed that Mr. Walgren, Ms. Brazil, the defense and Judge Pastor must be in due to their performances.<br />We did not see the jury though. The jury as a court element as such might be a sting target - how justice is being served in the U.S. Prison conditions might be a target. Political influences behind the curtains. $$$ influences behind the curtains. Media influence behind the curtains. I think the list could go on and we still would find reasons why the CRM trial was a potential sting.<br /><br />TMZ's article about the jury going down the toilet could be an indication that the jury was a target.<br />However, we noticed that we were missing witnesses who we thought being important but who were not heard.<br />There were obvious mistakes in admitting evidence to be discussed at the trial. So the basis for a decision was not sound. One could argue that of course limitations do not allow to hear everybody and take every detail into account when deciding on a verdict (or on an " individual and personal" judgement). <br /><br />And this is taking the trial to an educational level IMHO, making US the sting target (on the artistic sting level, aside from the criminal sting level).<br />Point is that whatever we as human beings do or don't do, acknowledge, approve or dismiss - it will always be imperfect.<br />Only God will judge us on a perfect level. <br />That's why we heard Judge Pastor's ethical speech in the end.<br />That's why Lady Katherine stated that "justice was served".<br />It was proven in all transparency that the human nature "justice" system that is - is imperfect and not to be trusted.<br />Still, I remember the yellers and screamers and whoopla partythrowers express that exactly this verdict was the only one that was the right one. Boom. <br /><br /><br />Add. as I just read bec's last post.<br />Michael's SUVs did not carry regular number plates but state agency number plates. <br />If that is an indication that he was considered being a VIP VIP, then I'd consider his phones and cars to be well protected against wiretapping - especially since the Pellicano experiences.<br />This was in the making for 20 years. <br />Someone who is falsely accused and undergoes such a horror trip as in the two allegation cases will not leave nothing to coincidence. Michael might even have studied law himself to find a better and clearer view of where to go with this project.<br />In the beginning I asked myself why for heaven's sake he would ever return to California. <br />Answer: it's there where injustice was brought to his life and it's there where he knew best how to get them initiators and nail them down.<br /><br />I cannot see any reason to have to leave the state of California for the hoax, except personal, individual reasons for breathing different air.<br />
Agree bec. It's a much bigger risk to fly off and be caught out somewhere else. And IF TPTB were after him/suspected what he was doing, what would stop them from intercepting his flight or waiting for him when he landed? What if something happened to the plane? There are way too many variables brought into the whole scenario by having him fly away. The only thing that Jermaine really confirmed with his totally deliberate slip-up is that Michael is alive. Made people go whaaaat? And TS, you never straight out give anything away and you really seem to be pushing the airport scenario which tells me you are most likely playing the devil's advocate with that.<br /><br />Maybe he did just go to Neverland (after UCLA Live MJ scenario). Does anyone remember how shortly after June 25th, the family was supposedly trying to decide what to do about some sort of public memorial and for a day or two there, it was reported that MJ's body would be going to Neverland and would be displayed for fans? Obviously that never happened and I remember thinking that would be really weird if it did. But maybe it was a tease - MJ is at Neverland!
"Still, I remember the yellers and screamers and whoopla partythrowers express that exactly this verdict was the only one that was the right one. Boom. “ @Ellyd - and even that is insulting to me if MJ were actually dead. That Michael’s “fans” were shouting justice at the sentencing of 4 possible years for a negligent doctor taking Michael’s life blows me away. Four years could never be enough if a death had really happened at the hands of someone described as being so uncaring and criminally negligent that he allowed Michael to die due to his incompetence and inattentiveness. I would have been livid! :Crash:
It was pretty much immediately because I recall the fan viewing was tentatively scheduled for, I'm pretty sure the 29th, Monday. By Saturday it was more or less canceled. But that didn't stop the activity at the estate. Remember that mysterious cement truck.
TMZ made it very clear:<br /><br />6/30/2009 6:39 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF<br />[size=14pt]Concrete Evidence Found at Neverland[/size]<br />A shipment of concrete was just delivered to the Neverland Ranch.<br /><br /><br /><br />We saw the concrete truck drive onto the property. A rep from the construction company told us they got a call today for 32,000 pounds of the hard stuff -- for what, we're not sure ... but it's certainly interesting ...<br /><br />http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/concrete-evidence-found-at-neverland/
<br />[size=12pt]If FBI is in, things can be arranged also at an airport.[/size]<br />It's a matter of checking in with the right people and VIP line.<br />There's more people flying across the continent or beyond that have not been checked on a regular level.<br /><br />Na, the question is WHY would MJ have to leave.<br /><br />Potential reasons:<br />1) to avoid any risk / to not endanger the foreseen outcome e.g.<br />2) there's no need for him to be present <br />e.g. if<br />- tasks are 100% assigned to a co- / vice-director<br />- tasks don't need any of HIS supervision<br />- tasks will be executed as foreseen anyway<br />- he has no live influence on what happens in case the script is not being followed.<br /><br />I`d think that somebody "fit for the job" of executive supervision engaged in taking the key position of the team, making it feasible for MJ to get out of any focal point of present tense the moment the world concentrated their apperception of MJ becoming "all of a sudden" and then being - accepted or not - past.<br />Time warp of the finest.<br /><br />FBI taking over from the moment the ambulance left, steering the complete UCLA chapter up to coroner garage entry would explain that MJ could be elsewhere and did not need to be present.<br /><br />TS said that court was a little bit of everything: hoax, sting, entertainment.<br />Hoax court is manifested many times in videos, boards, blogs. Entertainment was produced during live broadcasting. Sting IMHO was directed against those parts in the hoax that were not "alleged". <br /><br />There's a reason for each and every participant that he/she could be target of a sting.<br />Court system , the Superior Court as well as the Californian Judges on a separate privileged payroll have seen scandals.<br />The Sheriff could be a target. The coroner. The media. The media. The witnesses - medical research specialists faking their studies for $$$ but influencing drug production and consumption on a worldwide scale.<br /><br />We discussed that Mr. Walgren, Ms. Brazil, the defense and Judge Pastor must be in due to their performances.<br />We did not see the jury though. The jury as a court element as such might be a sting target - how justice is being served in the U.S. Prison conditions might be a target. Political influences behind the curtains. $$$ influences behind the curtains. Media influence behind the curtains. I think the list could go on and we still would find reasons why the CRM trial was a potential sting.<br /><br />TMZ's article about the jury going down the toilet could be an indication that the jury was a target.<br />However, we noticed that we were missing witnesses who we thought being important but who were not heard.<br />There were obvious mistakes in admitting evidence to be discussed at the trial. So the basis for a decision was not sound. One could argue that of course limitations do not allow to hear everybody and take every detail into account when deciding on a verdict (or on an " individual and personal" judgement). <br /><br />And this is taking the trial to an educational level IMHO, making US the sting target (on the artistic sting level, aside from the criminal sting level).<br />Point is that whatever we as human beings do or don't do, acknowledge, approve or dismiss - it will always be imperfect.<br />Only God will judge us on a perfect level. <br />That's why we heard Judge Pastor's ethical speech in the end.<br />That's why Lady Katherine stated that "justice was served".<br />It was proven in all transparency that the human nature "justice" system that is - is imperfect and not to be trusted.<br />Still, I remember the yellers and screamers and whoopla partythrowers express that exactly this verdict was the only one that was the right one. Boom. <br /><br /><br />Add. as I just read bec's last post.<br />Michael's SUVs did not carry regular number plates but state agency number plates. <br />If that is an indication that he was considered being a VIP VIP, then I'd consider his phones and cars to be well protected against wiretapping - especially since the Pellicano experiences.<br />This was in the making for 20 years. <br />Someone who is falsely accused and undergoes such a horror trip as in the two allegation cases will not leave nothing to coincidence. Michael might even have studied law himself to find a better and clearer view of where to go with this project.<br />In the beginning I asked myself why for heaven's sake he would ever return to California. <br />Answer: it's there where injustice was brought to his life and it's there where he knew best how to get them initiators and nail them down.<br /><br />I cannot see any reason to have to leave the state of California for the hoax, except personal, individual reasons for breathing different air.<br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />But if the FBI, the CIA or the NASA are involved in this is not possible that all those controls that there in the airport they can be ignored?....If i really thought, come one the man simulate his death, if it is true that he left for the airport I don't see anything strange in that. :icon_geek:
@UYI: you're so funny! :icon_lol: love ya! :bearhug:<br />Regarding @It';sHer, I saw you keep asking about her... I think you should write her a pm :icon_e_wink: she had been busy, she had some personal problems lately... I'm sure she's around here and she'll come back when she's ready.<br /><br /><br />WoW! TS put FIRE on this thread! OMG! I missed some action lately!! LOVE it!! :icon_bounce: :icon_bounce: :icon_bounce:<br />TS love youuuuuuu :bearhug:<br /><br /><br />I need to catch up with what you guys wrote here :woohoo2:<br /><br /><br /><br />
on 1352096585:
<br />[size=14pt]Nice TS...21 posts in a day, well done. [/size]
CURLS: " ... I'll hazard a guess that the purpose of TS's little exercise is to show that Murray's trial was NOT entertainment. ..."<br />---> TS: bravo<br /><br />MJonMind: " ... If this trial was real, it really shows what a joke then is the whole legal system. ..."<br />---> TS: bravo<br /><br />MJonMind: " ... So I would say in answer to TS question, that yes “alleged” covers them, or cancels out what was said in the verdict of 'guilty'.<br />So would that mean that if there really exists a Dr. Murray, that ]he really wasn’t in jail because his conviction was cancelled/nullified? <br />And the jury was flushed down the toilet for calling him guilty.Jury on trial. ...<br /><br />---> TS: bravo
<br /><br />If "bravo" means "yes, it's true", then in conclusion: the trial was [size=14pt]a sting operation[/size], most probably pulled out with the help of the police/FBI ! Therefore, everything we saw, was part real , part fake (HOAX)! And the characters were part actors (performing their role), part unaware people (being supervised by the mastermind behind the curtain)!<br />What we need to find out now is who EXACTLY were the actors and who were the people being stung! loll :icon_lol:
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on 1352097158:
[...] Which means that the court was BOTH hoax court, and [size=14pt]sting court[/size]! (Ooops, did I spill the beans?)
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