Again I agree with what Bec has said and this is worth considering:<br />
[size=12pt]I do strongly believe that we all need to seriously consider the possibility that Michael Jackson is absolutely nothing like the person we believed him to be for our entire lives.[/size]
<br /><br />
on 1326749503:
<br />I will just let it go and wait for things unfold itself. One thing is clear- WE HAVE BEEN HERE TO "INVESTIGATE"= FIND OUT WHETHER MJ IS ALIVE-IF SO , HOW HE DID IT; IF DEAD- WHO DID IT. THEN HOAX INVESTIGATION TURNS OUT TO BE DIFFICULT AND TO KEEP FAITH AND HOAX GOING, A NEW THEORY HAS DEVELOPED:GOD, BIBLE,ETC. <br />MICHAEL'S BELIEVE IN GOD AND HIS MESSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOAX AND REAL REASONS BEHIND IT. IF MJ KILLED IS ABOUT MONEY, IF MJ IS ALIVE AND HOXING, IT IS ABOUT REVENGE & THREAT TO LIFE.<br /> AS FOR TS, WHETHER HE IS TOM SIMKIN OR NOT, TO ME HE IS NOT MICHAEL NOR HIS INSIDER, NEVER WAS. THIS IS NOT A BIG NEWS FOR ME, BUT IT IS NOT AN HONEST GAME TO ONES WHO BELIEVED HE IS MJ OR "HIRED" BY MJ.<br />
<br /><br />You shouldn’t assume that someone is being dishonest. Where is the PROOF for this? Maybe you should wait and see. Many people here and myself included are not Christians, some are atheists as Bec freely admits so if people really do feel excluded from these kind of discussions then as suggested people are free to start their own threads with topics that interest them. <br /><br />Concerning Michael’s real message behind the Hoax we don’t know anything for sure but we have a number of theories and this spiritual message seems to be an important part of the Hoax as Michael has always been very spiritual himself and the Bible was always an important part of his life.<br /><br />@ Anna, no one is saying you don't belong here, just that if you don't agree with the TS discussions that you can discuss what is important to you in your own threads with others who also don't believe in TS.<br /><br />As I read in this entire forum and elsewhere I realize that some people have made of Michael their "god" because they want him to be ALL LOVING, ALL FORGIVING, ALL EVERYthing... he is not allowed to be a human being with preferences, personal beliefs, personal choices, feelings. That's one big problem that I see here.
<br />There is no attack against anybody. people perceive it as attack because it doesn't fit to what image they have about some person.<br />So far all the discussions about this have been left in the air, forgotten, banned, people shut up. I just want to have a place where we are free to express our concerns, thoughts and opinions without being slammed. Some of us honestly don't want fights. Just answers and understanding. We are free and democratically we have the right to discuss this subject too, because no one bashed anyone. This is serious and real talk, not bashing.<br /><br />There is an obvious connection between TS and STUDY/Tim Simkin. At least, if you state you don't find ANY connection, this doesn't mean anything?- the name used, the slogan used, the religious aspect and the numerology. These are evidence of connection that in my opinion are stronger than other subtle clues. You see it with your eyes. From here all the questions and discussions, and debate over the entire purpose of all this.<br /><br />Like fordtocarr said, I put here my thoughts also- some of us can just stay away. Leave it all and stay away. But Michael fought all his life to bring people together, to not discriminate anyone, to not separate anyone. This context of "you don't believe, you don't belong" is discriminating. Is Michael's message really so much about religion? Is Michael's will to have so many people leaving? If anything, it should unite us, not separate us. It's obvious and everyone knows, that as long as you perpetrate a religious message there will be always a reason for separation. Because there are people with other convictions, other religions, others are atheists.
<br /><br />Here's the bottom line. This is Souza's site. She can ban anyone at any time for any reason or no reason at all. If you find that unfair then you are free to start your own hoax site.<br /><br />As it is, people are banned for their behavior, not for their beliefs. I think that is pretty obvious to anyone but you are free to have your own determination on that. You are also free to vote with your mouse and make a choice to leave here and find a site more suitable to your liking.<br /><br />
on 1326750293:
<br />It's true that TS/TIAI didn't have only religious subjects, but many are based on religious aspects and Bible study and Lord preaching, studying the Ark of the Covenant, etc. <br /><br />I really believe in my heart and you don't need to be his mother or brother to understand that a man like Michael, who tried to unite people as one allover the world, would not go with the principle of "you don't believe, you don't belong". TS said once something of this sort: "have you noticed how some are ready and willing to rather have MJ dead than accept they are wrong?" when it was a discussion about the numerology and how people questioned it. Have you really thought how much such statement hurts? How can one say something like that? It's making you to feel guilty for not accepting it. <br /><br />This is one of my concerns, others brought up other concerns. For me it's about what Michael WANTS. Like fordtocarr said- is this what Michael wants?
<br /><br />You are entitled to your point of view but again, it begs the question, why are you frequenting a place that has a belief system that you believe is so very different then your own? You are acting like this is the only hoax site online and websites are impossible to create.
<br /><br /><br />I'm CERTAINTY NOT attacking TS.<br />I never said a bad thing against him. I actually said I hope he IS Michael. I hope I am wrong. I love the people here and TS is one of us.<br />What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the <br />entire forum. Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel. <br />I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.<br />If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.<br /> <br />
<br /><br />Yep. That's exactly what happens.<br />
<br /><br />Well there is another major hoax site that has zero TS influence that you could participate on if this is how you feel. I'm not being snotty, I really just don't get it.<br /><br />I don't understand the complaint. You chose to be here, you chose to participate, yet you have a multitude of complaints about it. I don't understand being unhappy and yet returning time after time again to complain some more and remain so perpetually unhappy by your own doing.<br /><br />[size=18pt]WOW, I"m sorry. Things have changed on here, and I'm trying to understand WHY and why we are so easy to follow the changes. I'm sorry for the "complaints" while I try to understand, learn, ask and investigate. Love u anyhow and I do appreciate your opinion.[/size]<br /><br />
on 1326749715:
<br />It matters who one follows. We have to know who's behind.<br />
<br /><br />I can appreciate that, but TS has made it pretty clear that his identity isn't going to be revealed until some later date. That being said, you then have to make a choice; to believe in leu of proof, or that you are not comfortable taking that leap of faith. There is no wrong answer but again we come back to choice.<br /><br /><br />
<br />Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.<br />
<br /><br />Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you. <br /><br />But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.<br />
<br /><br />Seriously, if someone just wants to test me, play with me, manipulate me - or do this to other people, they can go eff themselves. Nothing justifies that, not even a death hoax for serious reasons. That is my honest opinion. And one of the reasons why I always questioned certain "insiders". And come on, if they themselves are saying "I'm testing you" - I don't want to be on the receiving end of this, in general and especially not if I don't even know who this person is, because it's just some anonymous username on the internet. I don't want to be the mouse running through the labyrinth while someone is watching me, may the intentions be good or bad. A decent human being doesn't use other human beings that way.<br />
<br />Sarah, I also think MJ will never say - I'm testing you. He's just not that kind of person.<br />But hey, do you remember Murray said in his documentary that Michael had been testing him for a pretty long time before he could trust him? So, does that mean that we are wrong in thinking that or Murray was lying? <br />
<br /><br />I totally see Michael testing people. But this is just my perception.<br />
<br />If I could jump in for a second.....perhaps "testing" is too strong of word with a negative connotation. It implies that some believers might "test" better etc. Therefor, sending a signal that some are better than others.....which I am sure is far from Michael's heart. Nobody is better than anyone else here, we all know that. <br />I do see where questioning in a proper fashion would be important for Michael. It's been said many times, he trusted people too much. That's the reason people would take advantage of him so. I am sure for his own sake, he needs to know who he is dealing with here. By "who" I mean where are their hearts and minds exactly.....can they (us, technically) be trusted, do they truly love etc. Or are they going to exploit this adventure to no end come BAM time? I would hope that Michael feels secure enough, with enough of us, that he can truly, for the first time ever.....see humble, caring love towards him and his family. Not raving lunatics with any ulterior motives or agendas. He was surrounded by people that took advantage of him.....sad, but true. Some of those, took advantage to new heights of desperation. Some, just lingered around taking bits of his life here and there. I would hope, if he is here, he is indeed questioning us enough to find a steadfast love and respect....for all things Jackson. Enough answers to fill his heart with the same joy he gave so freely. <br />So, Michael....if it's a "test" of the emergency-hoax-system, or just a battery of questions to make you feel more at ease.....I'm good. I have no ulterior motives, no agendas.....I seek to only find the truth of you. <br /><br />Blessings Always<br /><br />PS> If he is testing us to see if we'd give up and leave, I have one thing to say:<br /> /toldya/<br />Not nice, I know....I need to polish the halo, lol. Love all.........
<br />Oh, so this is all a test, a mind game? I thought Michael had some serious reasons for this hoax, and now playing mind games and "testing" believers is one of them? That doesn't sound very likable at all.<br />
<br /><br />Well maybe you thought incorrectly. Or perhaps more accurately, maybe you are too short sighted in your assessment. I am personally of the opinion that this hoax is for many reasons; multiple serious agendas being fulfilled via an entertainment vessel. I do believe the ARG aspect is a game designed to promote spiritual (non-religious) awakening and self exploration/awareness. You want to call that mind games, fine. I disagree with you. <br /><br />But then perhaps I am thinking incorrectly as well.<br />
<br /><br />Seriously, if someone just wants to test me, play with me, manipulate me - or do this to other people, they can go eff themselves. Nothing justifies that, not even a death hoax for serious reasons. That is my honest opinion. And one of the reasons why I always questioned certain "insiders". And come on, if they themselves are saying "I'm testing you" - I don't want to be on the receiving end of this, in general and especially not if I don't even know who this person is, because it's just some anonymous username on the internet. I don't want to be the mouse running through the labyrinth while someone is watching me, may the intentions be good or bad. A decent human being doesn't use other human beings that way.<br />
<br /><br />Well see, but again, if that's how you feel, and I DO respect it, you have a choice to disregard and move on to something else you deem more worthy of your time. No one is trying to force you to watch and read and keep track of, least of all TS. You can click the red X and move on. Everyone makes a personal choice to participate in TS threads or not. They aren't pop ups when you visit the site or anything.<br />
<br /><br />bec, now what makes you think that just because I don't believe in those "insiders", I'm not interested in investigating them? In watching what they are doing? That is why I follow certain threads on here, I want to know who is doing this and why, some people just want to believe that Michael is behind the "insiders" and just don't want anyone doubting them for the simple reason that they themselves don't have 110 % trust in them, because there is no real proof, but there are things pointing in some other directions too. Those who believe in those "insiders" don't want to be reminded of that.<br /><br />I don't know about you, but I am here to investigate, and the things that point in other directions make a lot more sense than TS being an actual insider (and the same goes for Front, just because they "legitimized" each other doesn't have to mean they are Michael or close to Michael, it could be just one fake legitimzing the other fake).<br /><br />I am here to investigate and find the truth, not follow some anonymous users because they are good at being cryptic and writing like a horoscope (meaning, it can be interpreted in all kinds of ways, even in opposite ways, so you can read whatever you want into it). If you investigate something, you have to keep an open mind and look at all directions. Which I did. If you just look into one and then talk about "faith", that's the opposite of an investigation. This forum is not called "Michael Jackson Death Hoax Church".<br />
<br /><br />By your own words you have concluded your investigation (bolded by me for reference), and additionally have such strong, negative views about this site, so then why do you linger?<br /><br />You say you want to follow the threads to watch these "anonymous users" but that doesn't explain why you post in their threads. Why would you feel the need to ask questions if you have made up your mind and no longer have an open mind in regards to their legitimacy?<br /><br />What do you hope to achieve? Don't say the truth, because you are watching a source which you deem to be illegitimate. You don't discover the truth following dead ends.<br /><br />The bottom line is you make a choice to believe or not. No one is forcing you. You make a choice to come to this site or not. No one is forcing you. If you continue to follow the TS threads and come to this site when both are tied to negative feelings for you, then you have no one to blame but yourself for being unhappy.
[size=14pt]I would hope that Michael feels secure enough, with enough of us, that he can truly, for the first time ever.....see humble, caring love towards him and his family. Not raving lunatics with any ulterior motives or agendas. He was surrounded by people that took advantage of him.....sad, but true. Some of those, took advantage to new heights of desperation. Some, just lingered around taking bits of his life here and there. I would hope, if he is here, he is indeed questioning us enough to find a steadfast love and respect....for all things Jackson. Enough answers to fill his heart with the same joy he gave so freely.[/size]
<br />By your own words you have concluded your investigation (bolded by me for reference), and additionally have such strong, negative views about this site, so then why do you linger?
<br /><br />As long as this is still going on, as long as these people (and who knows, maybe new ones at some point) keep posting, nothing is completely "concluded". I don't know 100 % who is behind those names, as long as I don't know 100 %, I'll keep watching. As far as my time allows me to.
<br />I was looking for this, and i found it, remember what he said TS of the film Este es weeks before it will be released?<br /><br /><br />
TIAI Revealed, Part 6: “This Is It” Movie Rating (R20 - R28)<br /><br />Part 6 here has to do with the movie, “This Is It”, and also statements that I made about the movie (with username S.T.U.D.Y.) before it came out. I may repost those old S.T.U.D.Y. threads soon in this forum, with some updates, under the “Numbers Theory” section {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/board,14.0.html}.<br /><br />In addition to my 9-9-09 prediction, I made several other statements about “This Is It” weeks before it came out publicly. Here are a few examples, all stated on 9-18-09; this was more than a month before the release of “This Is It”, and the old MJkit forum still has this thread available to read (dated 9-20-09, because it was reposted on MJkit a couple days after I posted it on MJHD; {http://mjkit.forumotion.net/the-numbers-theory-for-all-theories-regarding-the-numbers-theory-f58/from-mjhd-excellent-the-9-9-09-prediction-did-come-true-this-is-it-settles-the-question-is-mj-alive-t1766.htm}<br /><br />“Yes, this whole hoax and plan is for a bigger purpose than just exposing the media. It is time for everyone to STUDY peace {http://new.etonline.com/documents/mjackson_funeral_program_et_090409.pdf}: peace in our own lives, and peace in our world.”<br /><br />“So if an MJ ‘resurrection’ is part of the plan and movie, what day would it be: … During the funeral wouldn’t even fit with the original Thriller, because the dead did not hop out of their caskets during a funeral—no, they came out of their graves. … ‘R’ = MJ Resurrection (9-9-09), MJ Return, MJ hoax Revealed!!! … Let’s see how many ‘R’ votes we can get between now and October 28 …”<br /><br />Notice here that I connected the “Resurrection” with 9-9-09, which was already 9 days past at that time; so I was not using resurrection in the sense of returning to public view—I used the word “Return” for that. I used the word “resurrection” in the sense of a concept, related to the hoax and especially the Thriller II film segment (graveyard scene, see R20 & R21 below).<br /><br />As already stated, the cinema version of the movie did “Reveal” the hoax to a degree (no MJ RIP; Smooth Criminal hoax death, hoax death actor in original “Gilda” had same birthday as MJ {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Macready}; and MJ “bam” statement at end, etc). And the home version will reveal it even more (see R20 & R22 below).<br /><br />[size=14pt]Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.<br /><br />Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”![/size]<br /><br />- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br />R20. 2 to 3 Hours of Additional Footage on “THIS IS IT” DVD/Blu-ray<br />{http://www.collider.com/2009/10/31/exclusive-director-kenny-ortega-says-expect-2-to-3-hours-of-additional-footage-on-this-is-it-dvdblu-ray/}<br /><br />This was a video clip of an interview with Kenny Ortega, about the fact that the DVD and Blu-ray versions of “This Is It” would have 2 or 3 hours of additional footage. Please notice that this redirect was on November 22, which was a week before the official release date (and specific content) was made public. That did not happen until November 30 {http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/michael-jacksons-it-dvd-and-blu-ray-release-date-announced}.<br /><br />Once the DVD release date was made public, the website gave the specifics of what would be included in the additional footage {http://www.thisisitmovieondvd.com/, then click “Special Features” at the top}.<br />
<br /><br />Maybe I'm off topic but I would like to point out the red parts in TS' post. As I've said before, I was never a follower of TS, doesn't mean that I assume that he is fake, not at all, but to me it wasn't necessary to follow him to learn more about the hoax. What strikes me as very strange is that TS is saying that WE were not ready for a return, otherwise Michael COULD HAVE returned/bammed at Halloween!!! In 2009!!!! What he is saying that we first had to learn more about NWO aspects of the Hoax. And now, TWO years later, knowing much more about NWO and many many other aspects, are we still not ready??? Ofcourse, there could be many other aspects and problems Michael faced during these past two years, so maybe HE is the one now who is not ready to return (if he will return at all), but that's not what TS implies in his post. He specifically is saying that it's US, WE are not ready.<br />Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, and I don't want to accuse TS in any way, but I feel this is striking remark of him that contradicts the sequel of the hoax. <br /><br />I hope members over here are not mad at me for writing this, we agreed that, as long as we discuss things in a respectful way, we could ask anything. Like I've said, I know not too much about TS and maybe he proved himself right for many times now, but this is very odd to me.
<br /><br /><br />I'm CERTAINTY NOT attacking TS.<br />I never said a bad thing against him. I actually said I hope he IS Michael. I hope I am wrong. I love the people here and TS is one of us.<br />What I am saying is all of the hoax tends to be based upon his "rules" and if I don't follow them or research them, I'm totally lost on the <br />entire forum. Opening my own thread would lead to being lost as most believe TS is gospel. <br />I'm just saying, if some of us do NOT fully, entirely give our whole trust in TS, or ANYONE, then we hear things as you wrote.<br />If I have free will, which I do and do not follow most things now because of this..then I am lost on the whole site.<br /> <br />
<br /><br />Yep. That's exactly what happens.<br />
<br /><br />Well there is another major hoax site that has zero TS influence that you could participate on if this is how you feel. I'm not being snotty, I really just don't get it.<br /><br />I don't understand the complaint. You chose to be here, you chose to participate, yet you have a multitude of complaints about it. I don't understand being unhappy and yet returning time after time again to complain some more and remain so perpetually unhappy by your own doing.<br /><br />[size=18pt]WOW, I"m sorry. Things have changed on here, and I'm trying to understand WHY and why we are so easy to follow the changes. I'm sorry for the "complaints" while I try to understand, learn, ask and investigate. Love u anyhow and I do appreciate your opinion.[/size]<br /><br />
on 1326749715:
<br />It matters who one follows. We have to know who's behind.<br />
<br /><br />I can appreciate that, but TS has made it pretty clear that his identity isn't going to be revealed until some later date. That being said, you then have to make a choice; to believe in leu of proof, or that you are not comfortable taking that leap of faith. There is no wrong answer but again we come back to choice.<br /><br /><br />
<br />
<br /><br />I respectfully disagree. I just don't understand the emotional depth at which your complaints seem to be registered. This whole thing is what you make of it. If you're not having fun, like Souza always says, take a break.<br /><br />I love and value you, fordtocarr, I just don't understand why you have been taking the topic of TIAI so negatively as of recent. Would you want it to change by request? Perhaps the topics have nothing to do with God and religion. Perhaps there's a metaphorical message to be received. Perhaps there's a parallel to be drawn. TS didn't post and say "read the bible", that's just one person's interpretation. I have some very different interpretations of what this is all about but I had to really ponder on it for awhile. I read some bible quotes and listen to some bible stories, so what. One of my favorite old time movies ever is the Ten Commandments. Perhaps the message is don't let yourself be turned away based on first impression. If you can get past the bible part, there's a great deal of possibilities of what these redirects mean. I posted on some in the threads. I thought it was interesting, and I'm the biggest atheist you ever met.<br /><br />So I don't understand why you are letting yourself get this upset over the subject of the last month's redirects. It was the god show after all, Christmastime, month of December, etc. Makes sense. Think about Christmas and it's relationship to Christianity. That ought to get you thinking.<br /><br />Something about stumbling blocks in the way of a brother or a sister. Don't put stumbling blocks in your own way either. Don't let yourself so quickly disregard an idea based on one aspect of it. For me, it's not about god or religion.
[size=12pt]bec, now what makes you think that just because I don't believe in those "insiders", I'm not interested in investigating them?<br />I am here to investigate and find the truth, not follow some anonymous users because they are good at being cryptic and writing like a horoscope[/size]
<br /><br />
[size=12pt]As long as this is still going on, as long as these people (and who knows, maybe new ones at some point) keep posting, nothing is completely "concluded". I don't know 100 % who is behind those names, as long as I don't know 100 %, I'll keep watching. As far as my time allows me to.[/size]
<br /><br />That's a lot of contradictory statements.
<br />I was looking for this, and i found it, remember what he said TS of the film Este es weeks before it will be released?<br /><br /><br />
TIAI Revealed, Part 6: “This Is It” Movie Rating (R20 - R28)<br /><br />Part 6 here has to do with the movie, “This Is It”, and also statements that I made about the movie (with username S.T.U.D.Y.) before it came out. I may repost those old S.T.U.D.Y. threads soon in this forum, with some updates, under the “Numbers Theory” section {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php/board,14.0.html}.<br /><br />In addition to my 9-9-09 prediction, I made several other statements about “This Is It” weeks before it came out publicly. Here are a few examples, all stated on 9-18-09; this was more than a month before the release of “This Is It”, and the old MJkit forum still has this thread available to read (dated 9-20-09, because it was reposted on MJkit a couple days after I posted it on MJHD; {http://mjkit.forumotion.net/the-numbers-theory-for-all-theories-regarding-the-numbers-theory-f58/from-mjhd-excellent-the-9-9-09-prediction-did-come-true-this-is-it-settles-the-question-is-mj-alive-t1766.htm}<br /><br />“Yes, this whole hoax and plan is for a bigger purpose than just exposing the media. It is time for everyone to STUDY peace {http://new.etonline.com/documents/mjackson_funeral_program_et_090409.pdf}: peace in our own lives, and peace in our world.”<br /><br />“So if an MJ ‘resurrection’ is part of the plan and movie, what day would it be: … During the funeral wouldn’t even fit with the original Thriller, because the dead did not hop out of their caskets during a funeral—no, they came out of their graves. … ‘R’ = MJ Resurrection (9-9-09), MJ Return, MJ hoax Revealed!!! … Let’s see how many ‘R’ votes we can get between now and October 28 …”<br /><br />Notice here that I connected the “Resurrection” with 9-9-09, which was already 9 days past at that time; so I was not using resurrection in the sense of returning to public view—I used the word “Return” for that. I used the word “resurrection” in the sense of a concept, related to the hoax and especially the Thriller II film segment (graveyard scene, see R20 & R21 below).<br /><br />As already stated, the cinema version of the movie did “Reveal” the hoax to a degree (no MJ RIP; Smooth Criminal hoax death, hoax death actor in original “Gilda” had same birthday as MJ {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Macready}; and MJ “bam” statement at end, etc). And the home version will reveal it even more (see R20 & R22 below).<br /><br />[size=14pt]Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.<br /><br />Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”![/size]<br /><br />- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br />R20. 2 to 3 Hours of Additional Footage on “THIS IS IT” DVD/Blu-ray<br />{http://www.collider.com/2009/10/31/exclusive-director-kenny-ortega-says-expect-2-to-3-hours-of-additional-footage-on-this-is-it-dvdblu-ray/}<br /><br />This was a video clip of an interview with Kenny Ortega, about the fact that the DVD and Blu-ray versions of “This Is It” would have 2 or 3 hours of additional footage. Please notice that this redirect was on November 22, which was a week before the official release date (and specific content) was made public. That did not happen until November 30 {http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/michael-jacksons-it-dvd-and-blu-ray-release-date-announced}.<br /><br />Once the DVD release date was made public, the website gave the specifics of what would be included in the additional footage {http://www.thisisitmovieondvd.com/, then click “Special Features” at the top}.<br />
<br /><br />Maybe I'm off topic but I would like to point out the red parts in TS' post. As I've said before, I was never a follower of TS, doesn't mean that I assume that he is fake, not at all, but to me it wasn't necessary to follow him to learn more about the hoax. What strikes me as very strange is that TS is saying that WE were not ready for a return, otherwise Michael COULD HAVE returned/bammed at Halloween!!! In 2009!!!! What he is saying that we first had to learn more about NWO aspects of the Hoax. And now, TWO years later, knowing much more about NWO and many many other aspects, are we still not ready??? Ofcourse, there could be many other aspects and problems Michael faced during these past two years, so maybe HE is the one now who is not ready to return (if he will return at all), but that's not what TS implies in his post. He specifically is saying that it's US, WE are not ready.<br />Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, and I don't want to accuse TS in any way, but I feel this is striking remark of him that contradicts the sequel of the hoax. <br /><br />I hope members over here are not mad at me for writing this, we agreed that, as long as we discuss things in a respectful way, we could ask anything. Like I've said, I know not too much about TS and maybe he proved himself right for many times now, but this is very odd to me. <br />
<br /><br />I'm pretty sure that TS is an ARG. I'm pretty sure there are fictional aspects to it. You could call this rectifying a hole in a theory if you like, but there are many other examples, that I see besides the one you provided, that point toward this possibility. I think there is a story line, for us, that runs parallel to the truth in this whole thing. Similar to how for non-believers, the "death" is the fictional aspect running parallel to the truth, hoaxers have their own fictional story running parallel. How much is fiction and how much is real is really confusing, I believe it is intertwined in complex fashion, similar to how court [almost had to be] both real and staged at the same time. I think it's very difficult to separate the truth from the fiction story but this is part of the game. I don't believe TS is handing out hoax truths on a silver platter. I think you have to dig for it. I think this is also part of the game. Do you believe based on the source? Or do you believe based on the information.
It is not my belief that Michael hoaxed for spiritual reasons, but that his matter of returning will be to awaken us spiritually. In that vein, perhaps he is testing us to see how well the new Michael would be received. In that we have been deemed his soldiers, I would think that if he feels that we are open to receive him then his job is more than half done. If not, then it would certainly be a major task to get others to accept the new him. :?
<br />Yeah, that's right, I'm not interested in following TS and hanging on every word he says and believing it to be the gospel.<br />
<br /><br />But you do follow him.<br /><br />
on 1326753516:
[size=12pt]As long as this is still going on, as long as these people (and who knows, maybe new ones at some point) keep posting, nothing is completely "concluded". I don't know 100 % who is behind those names, as long as I don't know 100 %, I'll keep watching. As far as my time allows me to.[/size]
<br /><br />So you do admit that you believe there is a possibility that TS is legitimate. So then why all the animosity? How does arguing about it help you discover the truth about his identity?
<br />[size=12pt]Yeah, that's right, I'm not interested in following TS and hanging on every word he says and believing it to be the gospel.[/size]<br />
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on 1326753843:
<br />[size=12pt]Btw. - whatever happened to level 7?[/size]<br />
<br /><br />More contradictions.<br /><br />p.s.: If you are trying to cast doubt on TS yet again regarding level 7, it's not going to work, because some of us realize that TS like the rest of us is human and also Michael's Hoax is complicated and complex. So we are being patient.
<br />Yeah, that's right, I'm not interested in following TS and hanging on every word he says and believing it to be the gospel.<br />
<br /><br />But you do follow him.
<br /><br />Not as a faithful follower. If you get the difference.<br /><br />
on 1326754091:
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on 1326753516:
[size=12pt]As long as this is still going on, as long as these people (and who knows, maybe new ones at some point) keep posting, nothing is completely "concluded". I don't know 100 % who is behind those names, as long as I don't know 100 %, I'll keep watching. As far as my time allows me to.[/size]
<br /><br />So you do admit that you believe there is a possibility that TS is legitimate. So then why all the animosity? How does arguing about it help you discover the truth about his identity?<br />
<br /><br />Of course there is always the possibility ... but what I meant is that there could be several people behind the TS account, Tim Simkin is one of them, but it's not the only one. It could also be more than one person.<br /><br />And I'm so glad that Front explained everything in a cryptic way ...
I think Bec, that it's because we are letting our bottom line focus suddenly upon the religious aspect that the hoax has suddenly taken. <br />Perhaps it is because some have latched on because of the holydays upon them. Or maybe because of things seemingly stalemate. <br />I truly do appreciate what you say, especially with you being an atheist. It must be to you, (and me) oh geez here we are again.<br /><br />I will take what you say under consideration. Both sides of this conversation really has a lot of followers, but it DOES not mean we<br />want to leave. Just understand, and try to fit in. Leaving is not an option even if we appear to have left. There are reasons why as well as reasons why we've been here 2.5 years.<br />LOVE to you Bec
@Sarah31 At this stage in the Hoax what do people expect if not whispers and "cryptic" messages? Do they expect everything to be spelled out in Black & White? Come on people! There is a right time for all to be revealed. Until then some of us appreciate and understand those whispers from behind the curtain. If whispers and cryptic messages are not for you, there is no need to ridicule and be sarcastic. Again, don't read Front's/TS's posts. It's simple.
Right Ford, we are here because we are all believers in Michael Jackson, and all of us are needed, even if our ideals differ at times. It’s human nature that we agree to disagree some times. However it shouln't cause any of us to lose sight of the bigger task at hand, paving the way for Michael to return.
<br />Again I agree with what Bec has said and this is worth considering:<br />
[size=12pt]I do strongly believe that we all need to seriously consider the possibility that Michael Jackson is absolutely nothing like the person we believed him to be for our entire lives.[/size]
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<br />I will just let it go and wait for things unfold itself. One thing is clear- WE HAVE BEEN HERE TO "INVESTIGATE"= FIND OUT WHETHER MJ IS ALIVE-IF SO , HOW HE DID IT; IF DEAD- WHO DID IT. THEN HOAX INVESTIGATION TURNS OUT TO BE DIFFICULT AND TO KEEP FAITH AND HOAX GOING, A NEW THEORY HAS DEVELOPED:GOD, BIBLE,ETC. <br />MICHAEL'S BELIEVE IN GOD AND HIS MESSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOAX AND REAL REASONS BEHIND IT. IF MJ KILLED IS ABOUT MONEY, IF MJ IS ALIVE AND HOXING, IT IS ABOUT REVENGE & THREAT TO LIFE.<br /> AS FOR TS, WHETHER HE IS TOM SIMKIN OR NOT, TO ME HE IS NOT MICHAEL NOR HIS INSIDER, NEVER WAS. THIS IS NOT A BIG NEWS FOR ME, BUT IT IS NOT AN HONEST GAME TO ONES WHO BELIEVED HE IS MJ OR "HIRED" BY MJ.<br />
<br /><br />You shouldn’t assume that someone is being dishonest. Where is the PROOF for this? Maybe you should wait and see. Many people here and myself included are not Christians, some are atheists as Bec freely admits so if people really do feel excluded from these kind of discussions then as suggested people are free to start their own threads with topics that interest them. <br /><br />Concerning Michael’s real message behind the Hoax we don’t know anything for sure but we have a number of theories and this spiritual message seems to be an important part of the Hoax as Michael has always been very spiritual himself and the Bible was always an important part of his life.<br /><br />@ Anna, no one is saying you don't belong here, just that if you don't agree with the TS discussions that you can discuss what is important to you in your own threads with others who also don't believe in TS.<br /><br />As I read in this entire forum and elsewhere I realize that some people have made of Michael their "god" because they want him to be ALL LOVING, ALL FORGIVING, ALL EVERYthing... he is not allowed to be a human being with preferences, personal beliefs, personal choices, feelings. That's one big problem that I see here.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Proof of dishonesty: TS READS HERE ABOUT MANY MEMBERS BELIEF HE/SHE IS AN INSIDER AND HE DOES NOT DENY THAT HE IS NOT. CONTINUES POSTING LEVELS AND READING ARGUMENTS OF MEMBERS LIKE ME WHO DO NOT BELIEVE TS IS MJ/KNOWER VS. OTHERS WHO BELIEVE. NOR HE SAYS CLEARLY " I AM AN INSIDER". KEEPS POSTING AS A NEUTRAL MEMBER, WHATEVER WE BELIEVE IN, HE/SHE DOES NOT CARE. THAT IS DISHONESTY.<br /><br />YOU , BEC, SOUZA, MYSELF, ALL OTHER MEMBERS IDENTITY IS CLEAR HERE, WE ARE NOT INSIDERS. <br />CAN TS SAY THE SAME OR OTHERWISE TO CLEAR THIS MESS UP? NO, HE/SHE LIKES PLAY MYSTERY = DISHONESTY. <br />I DON'T CARE WHO TS IS, TO ME HE/SHE JUST A MEMBER LIKE YOU AND ME UNLESS HE/SHE ANNOUNCES AND PROVES OTHERWISE.<br /><br />Michael's spiritual message and hoax are two different unrelated links. Example: Michael would not fake his death because he believes that LOVE is the solution and world need to be restored, and NWO must be stopped. I hope it is clear. WHEN /IF THERE IS A HOAX, there MUST BE A SERIOUS REASON not spiritual. Especially if there is a sting and authority is invloved and IF Michael is planning to come back.<br /><br />p.s. and whoever keeps poking me: fuck you back, you are pathetic. Got something to say, display on the board.
In my personal opinion, more would be accomplished if doubters simply went elsewhere more to their liking, or observed quietly while serious students of TS/Front tried to analyze their posts relating to Michael and hoax events as they unfold. There is so much more to be uncoded and discussed.<br /><br /><br />Do, in your TS posts.<br /> <br /> I agree that TS is saying that by and large many hoaxers on this site are not ready for MJ's return because they haven’t bothered to read his posts, to even begin to understand the reasons for the hoax and the nature of his return and BAM, relating to the EOW and NOW. And yes, I agree this hoax parallels OTHER things in history, many things, because it is a genius masterful plan, channelled from God, IMO. This is it! On so many levels.<br /><br />Who critiques something who hasn't even bothered to read and re-read something in its entirety? That's like tabloid trash!
<br />@Sarah31 At this stage in the Hoax what do people expect if not whispers and "cryptic" messages? Do they expect everything to be spelled out in Black & White? Come on people! There is a right time for all to be revealed. Until then some of us appreciate and understand those whispers from behind the curtain. If whispers and cryptic messages are not for you, there is no need to ridicule and be sarcastic. Again, don't read Front's/TS's posts. It's simple.<br />
<br /><br />What do I expect? The thing is, the cryptic messages can always be interpreted in all kinds of ways, even in opposite directions, like I said above. They are written like a horoscope. One can read into them whatever they wish to be true. I, and I'm sure other people as well, could interpret them in a totally different way, but people don't want to hear this, so I would never bother.
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