Great questions Grace and great answer melody. For me, Grace's questions point to the fact that many 'interpretations' of the 'mark' (or of any part of the Bible) are possibilities but none can be 'validated' as certainties. Many conflicting interpretations on this very thread sound equally plausible. Based on certain 'evidence', sometimes one interpretation sounds more plausible than another. But no matter how certain we may think we are about KNOWING something versus BELIEVING in it...God, of ALL things, is one 'category' that I, personally, don't/won't presume to have all figured out.<br /><br />It's like this whole 'hoax' experience....we say we KNOW Mike's alive and have the 'evidence' to prove it...we could even provide it a court of law. While the non-believers say they KNOW Mike is dead, they have the 'evidence' to prove it and they could also provide it in a court of law. Some say they KNOW that we are saved by faith alone and can provide 'proof' of that in the Bible....while others says they KNOW we are saved by faith and works/obedience...and show their 'proof' found in the Bible. But how can we KNOW any of that with 100% certainty? Until the day Mike returns, we wouldn't win in a court of law lol, even with ALL our evidence....and until Jesus/God returns, we won't know if we passed His test(s) (or if there even was a test)---no matter how faithful or 'obedient' we've been or think we've been.<br /><br />All we can do until either Bam lol....is share our own 'interpretations' while always remembering and respecting that just as we're sure we KNOW something, there's always others who feel they KNOW it differently. This 'hoax' has taught me many things...but the main thing I've learned is that as my knowledge increases so does my knowing that there is actually very little I KNOW...but there's heck of a lot of faith and hope. <br /><br />On another note....there seems to be a general 'negative' consensus about the Roman Catholic Church, or at least all the comments I've read seem to suggest that people are at least 'cautious' of the Church, the Pope, etc. I, too, fall within that category....but I'm beyond 'cautious' (I have a deep-rooted distain for both the Church and the Pope). In regards to the Ark...specifically the one Ron found (the 'true' Ark, supposedly)....what would be the reaction(s) if it ends up being the Church/Pope to 'validate' it as the 'true' Ark...with Jesus' blood and all? Hmm...for me, that would sure put a whole new spin on the 'messenger' vs. the 'message' debate....and would turn what I THINK I know upside down.<br /><br />One little twist in a kaleidoscope could change the entire picture.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
Melody and BeTheChange, and Grace who initiated it, excellent superb posts. Wowzers!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
One little twist in a kaleidoscope could change the entire picture.
<br />I have a secret love for those old toys, magical!!<br /><br />I also have developed a revulsion for all man-made church, and with TS leading me back into all that heavy doctrine, I feel like I'm kicking and screaming all the way.<br />NOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!<br /><br />The book of James is all about faith without works is dead.<br /><br />
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.<br /> 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.<br /> 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.<br /> 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?<br /> 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?<br /> 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?<br /> 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.<br /> 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
<br /><br />[size=small]This is the kicker for all you law-keepers:<br />[/size]
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
<br /><br />Is a miss as good as a mile? <br />[size=small]<br /> Do we here have any idea of how high the standard is for reaching “obeying the commandments of God”, or even having enough faith? It’s perfection—no less. Here is my post a while back on this thread, about my personal agonizing journey with precisely this thing. Read the words of Jesus that can bring you torture of mind. Can you respond to this?[/size]<br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21729.msg380856#msg380856<br /><br />Melody, just a response to the seal being the Holy Spirit. I've been involved many years with Pentecostalism, and many (not all) teach that the sign that you are filled with the HS is that you speak in tongues. Oh, how I sought for that, taking classes, laying on of hands, praying hours for years with tears, babbling to kick-start----and NOTHING but babbling in the end. How I tried to be the best Christian for almost 50 years.
We must not forget that God is the Most Merciful, and we really have to understand what that means. It means that He can forgive things we couldn't forgive. I think that the most important thing is to have a deep-rooted, sincere, unbreakable faith in Him, that's the main link by which we will be guided to do all that is necessary. If we have a deep and sincere faith, God will guide us in the right path. Why wouldnt He? Faith is the substance of things unseen, it is the essence of belief and the driving force that will lead us where we are destined to. If the destiny of people was in men's hands I think that they would put almost everyone in Hell. God knows what we do not know. <br /><br />
I would also like to say that it is precisely this issue that lead to church history.<br /><br /><br />Starting with the Law of Moses, the religious leaders tried to define the law further because of perhaps individual situations needing further definition, just as law today is ever becoming more specific because of unique cases and smarter lawyers. By Jesus' time the Sabbath rules alone were crazy, and that's what Jesus railed about. If they had had electricity, you probably would not have been able to turn on the light on Sabbath.<br /><br /><br />Then as to the interpretation of the New Testament, because there are so many possible understandings, each with some merit, that's why we have denominations, "cults", many vast libraries full of theology and interpretation, and so much historical bloodshed, hatred, and division. Many Christians once justified slavery from Scripture, from verses such as Paul telling slaves to be obedient to their masters. And need I go into how Christians in the church have a pecking order of who is more spiritual and holy from their words and deeds. :-[ /pull hair/ /judge/
<br />We must not forget that God is the Most Merciful, and we really have to understand what that means. It means that He can forgive things we couldn't forgive. I think that the most important thing is to have a deep-rooted, sincere, unbreakable faith in Him, that's the main link by which we will be guided to do all that is necessary. If we have a deep and sincere faith, God will guide us in the right path. Why wouldnt He? Faith is the substance of things unseen, it is the essence of belief and the driving force that will lead us where we are destined to. If the destiny of people was in men's hands I think that they would put almost everyone in Hell. God knows what we do not know. <br />
<br /><br />THAT is precisely why I firmly believe in the whole OTHER understanding of Scripture (the bigger hidden picture), that many of you know I've talked plenty about. Nothing, not even TS will distract me from that, and that's also why I think TS has something up his sleeve in all his "law-keeping" talk. Michael ALWAYS talked of healing the planet, love for all people and skin-color, one religion of LOVE. Everything TS/Back/Front says has to be brought through that filter for me. If I didn't think TS was Michael, I wouldn't have any use for his teaching. But I 100% trust Michael.
<br />Im_convinced, it very much matters who you addressed that post to. You stated that "you didn't know where I got my information from when I responded to you." Well, of course what I was responding to wouldn't be found in the post you addressed to someone else, but rather the one you addressed to me. That makes a difference. My posts were in response to your post below:
<br /><br />Suzy7-Actually I didn't say I don't know where you got your information from. What I said was "I have no clue how you see something that is not there." The red highlighted words in my post below that I have underlined was me copying/repeating your words in your post that I underlined. Those sentences were not my words. I think this is becoming a matter of misunderstanding/misinterpreting. I can see what your saying about the religion aspect but that is not what I have said. When it comes to this MoB law it really doesn't matter what anyone's religious beliefs are nor will it matter if someone believes in God or not. The scripture says:<br />http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation 13:15-18&version=NIRV<br />
15 The second beast was allowed to give breath to the statue so it could speak. He was allowed to kill all who refused to worship the statue. 16 [size=12pt]He also forced everyone to receive a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. People great or small, rich or poor, free or slave had to receive the mark.[/size] 17 They could not buy or sell anything unless they had the mark. The mark is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is a problem that you have to be wise to figure out. If you can, figure out what the beast's number means. It is man's number. His number is 666.
<br /><br />Honestly I wish this wasn't going to happen. I think perhaps you made a mistake in thinking that I have come up (on my own/my idea) with the understanding of it not mattering whether someone is religious or not. I am going by what the bible says. There was no condesending in my posts nor was I rude. If anything I could say it was rude of you to continue to nitpick at my posts insisting that I was contradicting myself. Don't make this out to be your a goody goody and I am the bad girl. Please trust and believe that if I was to be rude or condesending you would definitely know it. I was very fair and polite to you. I am addressing this post to you Suzy7 as a person and I am not making this to be about who is right or who is wrong according to what I believe or what you believe. You still didn't find contradictions in what I said. I am not the only person to have said it doesn't matter what your/anyones belief is at the end of the day because if this law is passed EVERYONE will be forced to abide by it or they will face CONSEQUENCES. Also I was not the first one to bring up Jesus/being saved/salvation having to do with the MoB law directly. It is indirectly attached. That is probably why this became confusing.<br /><br />
on 1327876734:
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on 1327839878:
<br />Im_convinced, I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier, I didn't see your post until now. I'll try and add some more info to make this even clearer, although I think I've said quite a bit. No, I do not think not keeping the Sabbath is taking the Mark of the Beast at all; in fact almost the contrary. Christians are not required to keep the Sabbath according to the Bible. And whether or not it is the "Mark of the Beast" (I'll use abbreviation MOB) depends upon what you believe, [size=12pt]simply because Jews keep the Sabbath and therefore it would be MOB, whereas Christians do not and therefore, it would not be the MOB.[/size] Also, I doubt atheists think anything is the MOB given they don't even believe in God. I think people should be cautious before accepting that a law like this will even be passed, much less tolerated. Until we see proof this will come into fruition, paranoia is unnecessary and unhelpful.<br /><br />Yes we are living according to the Roman calendar, and thus Sunday is our day of "rest". This did originate from Pagan worship of the Sun, but since we are not required to keep Sabbath any day, especially Sunday, than no Christian is taking the MOB. You stated that the saints will be saved for they will not receive the mark if they have faith and follow God's commandments. Well, isn't that what I've been saying? We are to have faith and follow God's commandments of LOVE, see Jono's posts. This does not require keeping Sabbath, as that law was fulfilled and done away with. Jesus referred to the Jews as the "synagogue of Satan" for a reason; they chose to deny him and even killed him in order to stay bound by the Old Covenant. So although the fourth commandment commands the observing of the 7th day as a sabbath rest, it must be kept in mind that the Ten Commandments were part of the law given to the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai. This law covenant was a sign of *their* relationship with God in order to commemorate their deliverance, not to us. (Deut. 5:15; Ex. 31:16)
<br /><br />Suzy7- I really think you don't grasp the concept of what the mark of the beast law aka sunday law is. This has nothing to do with whether or not someone is a Christian or Jew. It does not matter if someone believes in God or not. This has to do with Revelation 13 and below is the scripture pointing out what the mark of the beast means for EVERYONE. [size=12pt]This is not about Jews keeping the Sabbath and therefore they receive the mark of the beast because they are. This has nothing to do with Christians and them not keeping the Sabbath and therefore they don't receive the mark of the beast.[/size] The Sabbath is technically supposed to be kept on Saturday and when the mark of the beast law is enforced people will be forced to keep the Sabbath on the wrong day, Sunday. Now if we refuse to go along with the law and refuse to go to church on sunday then we will not receive the mark of the beast. If someone goes along with it because they will not be able to buy or sell, etc. then they will be taking the mark of the beast. <br /> <br />I never once said that the mark of the beast makes a distinction between Jews or Christians. I am neither of those because those are titles that have to do with religious names. I never said anything about saints. The info I copied and pasted said that and also the Bible says so.<br /><br />One other thing about this mark of the beast law, it is not related to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for us in the way you are connecting it. Yes I know that Jesus died for our sins. Through his blood we are given grace from God and offered salvation. I do know about salvation and it doesn't depend on works to receive it. The subject of that is seperate from what I am pointing out. I have said before this information I am providing is for the sole purpose of it being evidence and after that it is up to the people to study it or not. I have said my last comment on this subject just now and I respect your choice in how to believe so please respect my choice. I am not even saying that anyone should or should not keep the Sabbath. I don't but I know I should because the Bible has God's word saying so.<br /><br />I do not just think this way independantly from not studying and not reading scriptures in the Bible. I have formed my understanding of this issue from study of the Bible in regards to revelations and I have read other info and watched youtube videos. This is not just my opinion. This information is not to make people scared or paranoid but to give them an opportunity to know what is ahead in the near future. The evidence is there for all to see and the proof will be in prophesies fulfilled.<br /><br />http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation 13:15-18&version=NIRV<br />
15 The second beast was allowed to give breath to the statue so it could speak. He was allowed to kill all who refused to worship the statue. 16 He also forced everyone to receive a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. People great or small, rich or poor, free or slave had to receive the mark. 17 They could not buy or sell anything unless they had the mark. The mark is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is a problem that you have to be wise to figure out. If you can, figure out what the beast's number means. It is man's number. His number is 666.
<br />
The National Sunday Law if it goes into effect would be a law that would force everyone even athiest into going to church and worshipping on sunday the day for satan. There will be punishments for not going along with the law, for example the fact that we wouldn't be able to buy or sell, wouldn't be able to buy food, clothes, medicine, etc. So basically if I stand my ground and refuse to obey the law I will face punishments. The Sunday law would force people to bow down to satan. Therefore if people follow the law they will be worshipping satan and receive the mark of the beast.
^^My comment from my last post. I also would like to point out that the subject of the ark of the covenant was in TS' post and that does have to do with the Ten Commandments.
<br /><br />
Suzy7:<br /><br />Im_convincedmjalive:<br />
The above websites could help you and anyone else struggling with this part of the end of the world revelations.
<br /><br />I am not "struggling" to understand the EOW, just your contradictions. Also, my question to you was rhetorical; I know you believe in God and the Bible, that is why you care whether or not you receive the "mark of the beast." That is my whole point---your contradiction is that this law has nothing to do with religion (what anyone believes), if it doesn't, why would any religious person care whether or not they are receiving the MOB? So, of course our personal spiritual belief's matter! I also made a post in this thread about TS' mentioning of the Ten Commandments. I did think our conversation ended with my last post, hence why I said (several times), I have respect for your opinion and whatever you or anyone else chooses to believe; even if you continuously choose to misunderstand everything I have written . Also, doesn't the Bible state we should be kind, humble, respectful, patient etc., versus rude and condescending? Yes, it does. Therefore I'll add again that I respect your opinion even if it differs from mine.
<br /><br />I posted the website links for whoever may be struggling with the concepts of the MoB and EOW/Revelation. If it doesn't apply to you, great. Now that you have had your say and I have responded please lets move on.<br /><br /><br />P. S. To MJonmind-I was not accusing you of anything nor was there an accusing tone. I said thinking out loud and saying to myself.... <br />I make observations and that is what I have seen regarding anyone and everything. Ya know when you read someone's comment it is the reader who attaches the tone to it. <br /><br />On a side note the website links I have posted could answer the current conversation regarding the Seal (mark) of God.<br />
<br />We must not forget that God is the Most Merciful, and we really have to understand what that means. It means that He can forgive things we couldn't forgive. I think that the most important thing is to have a deep-rooted, sincere, unbreakable faith in Him, that's the main link by which we will be guided to do all that is necessary. If we have a deep and sincere faith, God will guide us in the right path. Why wouldnt He? Faith is the substance of things unseen, it is the essence of belief and the driving force that will lead us where we are destined to. If the destiny of people was in men's hands I think that they would put almost everyone in Hell. God knows what we do not know. <br />
<br /><br />THAT is precisely why I firmly believe in the whole OTHER understanding of Scripture (the bigger hidden picture), that many of you know I've talked plenty about. Nothing, not even TS will distract me from that, and that's also why I think TS has something up his sleeve in all his "law-keeping" talk. Michael ALWAYS talked of healing the planet, love for all people and skin-color, one religion of LOVE. Everything TS/Back/Front says has to be brought through that filter for me. If I didn't think TS was Michael, I wouldn't have any use for his teaching. But I 100% trust Michael.<br />
<br /><br />I understand you MJonmind. I have pondered a lot about all this. I am bamboozled LOL because as a Muslim who also believe in Qu'ran then, I don't see how the Catholic Church will have any impact on the other many religions. Well, maybe there will be a way as it is supposed to be something "worldwide" but the Catholic Church doesn't represent or have "authority" for the other religions. Unless the leaders all make a satanic pact! errrr Anyway I don't follow any so-called authorities in religion, my allegiance is to God alone. <br /><br />And concerning the Sabbath it isn't required in Qu'ran we have the Friday prayer instead. <br /><br />16:124<br />The Sabbath was decreed only for those who ended up disputing it. Your Lord is the One who will judge them on the Day of Resurrection regarding their disputes.<br /><br />It kind of confirms that Jews and Christians must keep it holy. :? Anyway I am confused about what the future will bring. Hence why my first and last resort, despite learning and studying of course, is my unbreakable and unshakable and nurturing, and love-filling faith in God. I am asking Him to guide me and help me discern, see the truth and believe in it when it is presented in front of my eyes. I know this feeling of knowing what is the truth. <br /><br />bearhug
@BeTheChange: Wow, imagine that :shock:<br /><br />If the Catholic Church did "validate" the ark, then they would also have to accept the stone tablets it held; from what I understand they number their commandments differently. I don't know if that's an issue, but I guess it would be a lie to list them without the second commandment and then split the tenth into two as if they were distinct. <br /><br />
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm<br /><br />1. I am the LORD your God: <br />you shall not have <br />strange Gods before me.<br /><br />2. You shall not take <br />the name of the LORD your God in vain. (Should be #3)<br /><br />3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day. (Should be #4)<br /><br />4. Honor your father and your mother. (Should be #5)<br /><br />5. You shall not kill. (Should be #6)<br /><br />6. You shall not commit adultery. (Should be #7)<br /><br />7. You shall not steal. (Should be #8)<br /><br />8. You shall not bear false witness <br />against your neighbor. (Should be #9)<br /><br />9. You shall not covet <br />your neighbor's wife. (Should be #10)<br /><br />10. You shall not covet <br />your neighbor's goods. (^^^ should be included with that)<br />
<br /><br />...which you probably know already, but for those who don't, there ya' go.<br /><br /><br /><br />@MJonmind: I think the whole law-keeping boils down to this concept: keep the believer out of a troublesome path and in the path of love/peace, whether it's summarized in ten or two. Both, if followed as instructed, ensure that we restrain hatefulness, abound in love, stay loyal, have mercy, and show kindness; he expects his followers to have all of these qualities permeating their speech, thought, and behavior; I think the ten commandments help develop that. When I read them I hear "I know what makes humanity miserable, if you do this and avoid that, you're good to go". Salvation unto heavenly immortality is simply believing; Salvation from earthly misery is keeping the commands.<br /><br />I'm aware of the "baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues" doctrine, lol what a mouthful. It is a blatant contradiction to what 1 Corinthians 14 says on "how" and "where" it should be used; I honestly do not see any scriptural support for what they are claiming. If someone is going to speak in tongues at a gathering of believers then someone should be interpreting what was said and it should only be one person speaking in tongues at a time (YHWH is a god of order, not chaos), yet they have the whole church babbling simultaneously, even the kids. Who is interpreting? The whole point of gathering for "church" is to edify each other; they can't edify anyone if nobody understands what's being said. Sadly, all I've seen at these "buildings" is vain, empty ritual.<br /><br />Just thinking about the different ways the Holy Spirit would descend on people: John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit while he was still in his mother's womb (Luke 1:15) and he never performed any "miracles" (John 10:41). No one (not even John himself) witnessed him(self) speaking in tongues; so if they were around back then, they would have asserted that John was not filled with the Spirit, yet he was. Then there's the 70 elders in the desert with Moses (Numbers 11:25), they all prophesied instead of speaking in tongues when the Spirit descended upon them. That should be enough to put an end to all that nonsense (literally, because the babbling makes no sense). The people I've come across who said they have truly spoken in tongues, say they've only done it once or rarely, never voluntarily, and they spoke another human language (one they never studied) and someone else in the group was able to interpret what was said.<br /><br /> <br /><br />@Sarahli: I have to remind myself of that all too often. I think that, like Abraham, we obey even when we don't understand all the intricacies (leap of faith), all the while asking for understanding, like Habakkuk, for the things YHWH is willing to reveal at the time. Very hoax-like as BeTheChange mentioned.
<br />Great questions Grace and great answer medoly. For me, Grace's questions point to the fact that many 'interpretations' of the 'mark' (or of any part of the Bible) are possibilities but none can be 'validated' as certainties. Many conflicting interpretations on this very thread sound equally plausible. Based on certain 'evidence', sometimes one interpretation sounds more plausible than another. But no matter how certain we may think we are about KNOWING something versus BELIEVING in it...God, of ALL things, is one 'category' that I, personally, don't/won't presume to have all figured out.<br /><br />It's like this whole 'hoax' experience....we say we KNOW Mike's alive and have the 'evidence' to prove it...we could even provide it a court of law. While the non-believers say they KNOW Mike is dead, they have the 'evidence' to prove it and they could also provide it in a court of law. Some say they KNOW that we are saved by faith alone and can provide 'proof' of that in the Bible....while others says they KNOW we are saved by faith and works/obedience...and show their 'proof' found in the Bible. But how can we KNOW any of that with 100% certainty? Until the day Mike returns, we wouldn't win in a court of law lol, even with ALL our evidence....and until Jesus/God returns, we won't know if we passed His test(s) (or if there even was a test)---no matter how faithful or 'obedient' we've been or think we've been.<br /><br />All we can do until either Bam lol....is share our own 'interpretations' while always remembering and respecting that just as we're sure we KNOW something, there's always others who feel they KNOW it differently. This 'hoax' has taught me many things...but the main thing I've learned is that as my knowledge increases so does my knowing that there is actually very little I KNOW...but there's heck of a lot of faith and hope. <br /><br />On another note....there seems to be a general 'negative' consensus about the Roman Catholic Church, or at least all the comments I've read seem to suggest that people are at least 'cautious' of the Church, the Pope, etc. I, too, fall within that category....but I'm beyond 'cautious' (I have a deep-rooted distain for both the Church and the Pope). In regards to the Ark...specifically the one Ron found (the 'true' Ark, supposedly)....what would be the reaction(s) if it ends up being the Church/Pope to 'validate' it as the 'true' Ark...with Jesus' blood and all? Hmm...for me, that would sure put a whole new spin on the 'messenger' vs. the 'message' debate....and would turn what I THINK I know upside down.<br /><br />One little twist in a kaleidoscope could change the entire picture.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.<br />
<br /><br />Much congratulations on the 1000th post! <br /> party/<br />You know what I love about your posts? You write straight from the heart, with a fountain of faith and love. <br />I love that I can feel what you believe in, what's important to you. It's a gift to have that in your writing BTC.<br />Thank you so much your the time and dedication with your posts....that goes for all here, too! <br /><br />This thread is so hugely important to the foundation of my heart and spirit. I literally soak it all in...over and over.<br />Posts like yours seep into my heart and mind. It really gives me pause to think and consider what all the world's history has to offer. The range of emotions through this one thread is amazing. Unlike the traditional hoax investigation threads, this is so personal to each of us. I believe faith and religion needs to have each other to grow and learn.......no matter what we believe....we are still a unit of one......mankind, humans..whatever you want to call us. It's a little like the old saying....."the more things change, the more they stay the same." The more we are different, the more I feel we are the same....it's hard to explain. For me it all comes back to faith, hope and love. Being a positive force with your faith helps others build on theirs and pull things together in a personal way. I see many attributes in different faiths that I respect and learn from.....for me above all, it's a love for God. I think that's why I enjoy reading this thread...though I don't post here much. <br /><br />So, again....congrats on the 1000th BTC <br />I wish you all the very best...love you all!<br />Blessings Always
Souza,<br /><br />I just read your long but amazing post. Thank you for taking the time to research. You are great. What you said makes a lot of sense and it matches up with historical events and some current events. Now you have me curious about figuring out the time sequences. <br /><br /> bearhug <br /><br />
<br />The danger for us lies in letting a sense of [size=14pt]spiritual pride[/size] that we have the truth settle into our thinking, thereby making us sit back and dismiss things as not applicable to us. <br />
<br /><br />'Spiritual pride' - an interesting phrase that accurately describes what I observe in many 'religious' people who, as mere humans, think they can, and have, solved the most 'super-human' mysteries of the universe.<br />
<br />Hi Curls. You make a valid point. Not sure if you are speaking generally or to me specificly. I apologise if my posts come across as being full of pride. If others note things that I am blind to, then know that I am a work in progress. We all bring to this discussion thoughts that have been filtered through our own interpretations and also many times coloured by our own experiences. Hence my 'religious' themes much of the time as that is a central part of my experience for the past 30 years. But as of today, I haven't yet arrived, I know nothing as I should and if I tend to post about the Lord much of the time, it's because I really do love Him. He saw value in me when I had been left on the scrapheap of life and I'm so very thankful.
<br />Just asking: are we all sure what we talk about when we mean the "mark of the beast"? <br />Is there a common understanding of it? <br /><br />Is there any "mark of God" on the other hand which we would accept as such in a common understanding?<br />Is the "mark of God" "bijective" - as mathematicians would say - or in modern language: could it be copyrighted and identified by a one and only "unique brand" or could it be falsified by pretenders and wannabees?<br />
<br /><br />I just posted a long ass post about that a few pages back.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
BTW concerning Rome/Vatican being last beast in prophecy: just saw that the general information phone number for Rome is 060606...
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />Just asking: are we all sure what we talk about when we mean the "mark of the beast"? <br />Is there a common understanding of it? <br /><br />Is there any "mark of God" on the other hand which we would accept as such in a common understanding?<br />Is the "mark of God" "bijective" - as mathematicians would say - or in modern language: could it be copyrighted and identified by a one and only "unique brand" or could it be falsified by pretenders and wannabees?<br />
<br /><br />I just posted a long ass post about that a few pages back. <br />
<br /><br />Txs, Souza, I was interested to read whether there is a common understanding for both "marks".
Hello everybody......<br /><br />I am afraid I don't have much to say in this journey of "disecting" the Bible.<br />My approach of Holy Book is rather different than yours - meaning I feel like not being too intelectual about it - my approach is rather emotional than "mathematical". I guess it's another way of gaining knowledge - I look for enlightment/sudden revelations if it's possible - in my case it comes from emotional approach...you know it's like a ritual when you dive into a state of dreaming...well maybe I am a little crazy :oops:<br /><br />How to say it....I take the Bible in my hand and I feel an emotion - respect, devotion, maybe a little fear because I know I am so unperfect and bad in some ways. I read to feed my soul, to feel the spirit of the teaching, the divine moral, not necesarrily to place everything in a certain logical diagram.<br /><br />Well that's just me....but I respect your determination to take a different approach than mine.<br /><br />I love you all very much. <br /><br />PS:does it make any sense if I say to me the Bible is an "alive" book?? Like it speaks to me before I even open it................................
<br />The danger for us lies in letting a sense of [size=14pt]spiritual pride[/size] that we have the truth settle into our thinking, thereby making us sit back and dismiss things as not applicable to us. <br />
<br /><br />'Spiritual pride' - an interesting phrase that accurately describes what I observe in many 'religious' people who, as mere humans, think they can, and have, solved the most 'super-human' mysteries of the universe.<br />
<br />Hi Curls. You make a valid point. Not sure if you are speaking generally or to me specificly. I apologise if my posts come across as being full of pride. If others note things that I am blind to, then know that I am a work in progress. We all bring to this discussion thoughts that have been filtered through our own interpretations and also many times coloured by our own experiences. Hence my 'religious' themes much of the time as that is a central part of my experience for the past 30 years. But as of today, I haven't yet arrived, I know nothing as I should and if I tend to post about the Lord much of the time, it's because I really do love Him. He saw value in me when I had been left on the scrapheap of life and I'm so very thankful. <br />
<br />BTW concerning Rome/Vatican being last beast in prophecy: just saw that the general information phone number for Rome is 060606...<br />
<br /><br />So do numbers (I guess like numerology) and the Bible (Prophesies) go hand in hand in your opinion? (I know about the mark of the beast in relation to the number 666 though, but what about everything else?)<br /><br />
on 1328648347:
<br />We must not forget that God is the Most Merciful, and we really have to understand what that means. It means that He can forgive things we couldn't forgive. I think that the most important thing is to have a deep-rooted, sincere, unbreakable faith in Him, that's the main link by which we will be guided to do all that is necessary. If we have a deep and sincere faith, God will guide us in the right path. Why wouldnt He? [size=14pt]Faith[/size] is the substance of things unseen, it is the essence of belief and the driving force that will lead us where we are destined to. If the destiny of people was in men's hands I think that they would put almost everyone in Hell. God knows what we do not know. <br />
<br /><br />I agree with you...<br /><br />Hebrew 11;1-31 (Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.....)<br /><br />It also reminds me of King Jr<br /><br />'Faith is taking the first step even when we don't see the whole staircase".
[size=small]Ya know when you read someone's comment it is the reader who attaches the tone to it. [/size]
<br />[size=small]All-righty then, I think I see a smile coming from you!! [/size] <br />[size=small]As well, I want to thank you for posting that link. Somehow I had overlooked it.[/size] :oops: [size=small] I didn't read it all but to about a quarter way down. And I gotta tell you it blew my mind.[/size] afraid/ <br /><br /><br />I totally believe it's coming now. I can imagine the Protestant churches would be all for it initially, not perceiving the deadly lash of the dragon's tail at the result of it, massive persecution and death. Initially Protestants would see it as a means for the country to become more religious/godly (bringing the Gospel to the ends of the earth), and that perhaps it would bring in huge numbers of people into their emptying churches. Of course the powerful relentless push to enforce the NSL legally and politically would be the mostly unseen Catholic church. But Joseph Ratzinger the Pope, is also Jewish, so he may also connect to Zionist/Illuminati groups as well. Those 2 evil entities will work together in the Revelation scenario IMO. <br /><br />Honestly this really warms me up to The Sign #1 post.<br /><br /><br />[size=small]Now perhaps Souza's post will have a stronger base for me as well. The ultimate showdown between the Son and the Sun, the Sabbath and Sunday, Satan's beautiful lie, wanting the worship that God receives, and sitting upon God's throne, the Mercy Seat. [/size]<br /><br />[size=small]Perhaps the implanted chip will hold part of the punishment--first and second offenses paying a fine, and the third time --capitol punishment/death. And the chip will help them keep track of the whereabouts of every person.[/size]<br /><br />[size=small]I couldn't copy the text so I typed out some to give some glimpses of the text.[/size]<br /><br />[size=small]http://www.scribd.com/doc/13224723/Enforced-Sunday-Law-Coming-Soon-To-America-by-Vance-Ferrell[/size]<br />
[size=small]In 1998, Ratzinger (Joseph Alois Ratzinger, made Pope Benedict XVI on April 19, 2005) wrote a startling Apostolic Letter, which John Paul issued on May 31 in St. Peter’s Basilica. Entitled, Dies Domini (The Lord’s Day), it was a call for all the nations of earth to enact strict National Sunday Laws.[/size]<br />[size=small]In this document, while first reviewing the history of Sunday worship, Ratzinger admitted that Sunday worship was “Christianized” from the day on which the pagan sun god was worshiped….[/size]<br /><br />[size=small]“Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy.” Ibid., p. 23, section 67…[/size]<br />[size=small]“in his letter, the pope goes on to say a violator should be ‘punished as heretic,’ … 1998.[/size]<br />[size=small]This papal decree startled many observers, but not those close to Ratzinger. They knew about his cherished objective. Within three years he would begin working more actively to fulfill it. Ratzinger recognized that which many did not: There was only one way to get national Sunday laws enacted. It was by forming immense ecumenical councils, which included all the major Christian denominations—and was dominated by its Catholic organizers…[/size]<br />[size=small]“Thirty-four churches and national Christtian organizations, representing over 100 million Americans, have formed the broadest, most inclusive fellowship of Christian churches and traditions in the US>” U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops…2006[/size]<br /><br />[size=small]But Benedict had done his homework: in terms of the number of church members in each church that is represented in the CCT (Christian Churches Together), the Catholic Church is the giant in the organization, with more adherents than the total number in the National Council of churches….[/size]<br />[size=small]Linked arm-in-arm with the other churches, this new child of the papacy will have immense political clout…[/size]<br />[size=small]Included among the ten is this one:[/size]<br /><br />[size=small]“Throughout all the land, a National Day of Rest shall be honored by governments, industrial manufacturers, and public shopping facilities.”[/size]<br />[size=small]This objective, which would require enactment of a National Sunday Law for the entire nation…It was obvious that a massive structure of [/size][size=small]So, an eleventh project was designated as the first one to be presented to the churches: the need to “fight poverty” in America…[/size]<br /><br />[[size=small]The first Sunday Law in the American Colonies was enacted in Virginia in 1610. It required attendance at Sunday services, with the death penalty prescribed for the third offense. Here is an important fact: Wen the government requires Sunday observance,---penalties must be included for its violation…[/size]<br />[size=small]Soon more laws were enacted. These Sunday Laws forbade a variety of everyday activities, such as working, sleeping late, or even walking and riding—except to church meetings…[/size]
[size=9pt]If the Catholic Church did "validate" the ark, then they would also have to accept the stone tablets it held; from what I understand they number their commandments differently. I don't know if that's an issue, but I guess it would be a lie to list them without the second commandment and then split the tenth into two as if they were distinct. [/size]<br />Quote<br />[size=10pt]http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm[/size]<br /> <br /> 1. I am the LORD your God: <br /> you shall not have <br /> strange Gods before me.<br /> <br /> 2. You shall not take <br /> the name of the LORD your God in vain. (Should be #3)<br /> <br /> 3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day. (Should be #4)<br /> <br /> 4. Honor your father and your mother. (Should be #5)<br /> <br /> 5. You shall not kill. (Should be #6)<br /> <br /> 6. You shall not commit adultery. (Should be #7)<br /> <br /> 7. You shall not steal. (Should be #8)<br /> <br /> 8. You shall not bear false witness <br /> against your neighbor. (Should be #9)<br /> <br /> 9. You shall not covet <br /> your neighbor's wife. (Should be #10)<br /> <br /> 10. You shall not covet <br /> your neighbor's goods. (^^^ should be included with that)<br />
<br /><br />
Exodus 20 1And God spake all these words, saying,<br /> 2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.<br />1) 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.<br />2) 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.<br /> 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;<br /> 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.<br />3) 7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.<br />4)8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.<br /> 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:<br /> 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:<br /> 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.<br />5) 12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.<br />6) 13Thou shalt not kill<br />7)14Thou shalt not commit adultery.<br />8 )15Thou shalt not steal.<br />9) 16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.<br />10) 17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Thanks for posting the altered Catholic 10 C. I thought I'd post the Scriptural ones. <br />I'm starting to find this exciting! RW's and TS's ark is going to blast the pope's false Ethiopian ark with its false 10 commandments. /woohoo/ <br /><br /><br /><br />[size=9pt]wishingstar[/size]<br />
[size=9pt]This thread is so hugely important to the foundation of my heart and spirit. I literally soak it all in...over and over.[/size][size=9pt]<br /> Posts like yours seep into my heart and mind. It really gives me pause to think and consider what all the world's history has to offer. The range of emotions through this one thread is amazing. Unlike the traditional hoax investigation threads, this is so personal to each of us. I believe faith and religion needs to have each other to grow and learn.......no matter what we believe....we are still a unit of one......mankind, humans..whatever you want to call us. It's a little like the old saying....."the more things change, the more they stay the same." The more we are different, the more I feel we are the same....it's hard to explain. For me it all comes back to faith, hope and love. Being a positive force with your faith helps others build on theirs and pull things together in a personal way. I see many attributes in different faiths that I respect and learn from.....for me above all, it's a love for God. I think that's why I enjoy reading this thread...though I don't post here much. [/size]
<br /><br />But please keep on posting. What you say is true for me too. I am honestly battling all this out in my heart and mind. I feel this is all so significant. We are all digging, stretching, changing and growing. Most of all I feel we are doing this as a group, a family, hopefully moving forward as one. I'm glad TS is giving us this time to research and discuss, and he knows when we are ready to receive the next Sign. To you and my family here, my love and respect!<br /> bearhug
@MJonmind......<br />You're such a sweetheart....you always manage to make me feel good and put a smile on my face......Bless you!<br />Have a beautiful day.........<br /> bearhug x 7
[size=9pt]If the Catholic Church did "validate" the ark, then they would also have to accept the stone tablets it held; from what I understand they number their commandments differently. I don't know if that's an issue, but I guess it would be a lie to list them without the second commandment and then split the tenth into two as if they were distinct. [/size]<br />Quote<br />[size=10pt]http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm[/size]<br /> <br /> 1. I am the LORD your God: <br /> you shall not have <br /> strange Gods before me.<br /> <br /> 2. You shall not take <br /> the name of the LORD your God in vain. (Should be #3)<br /> <br /> 3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day. (Should be #4)<br /> <br /> 4. Honor your father and your mother. (Should be #5)<br /> <br /> 5. You shall not kill. (Should be #6)<br /> <br /> 6. You shall not commit adultery. (Should be #7)<br /> <br /> 7. You shall not steal. (Should be #8)<br /> <br /> 8. You shall not bear false witness <br /> against your neighbor. (Should be #9)<br /> <br /> 9. You shall not covet <br /> your neighbor's wife. (Should be #10)<br /> <br /> 10. You shall not covet <br /> your neighbor's goods. (^^^ should be included with that)<br />
<br /><br />
Exodus 20 1And God spake all these words, saying,<br /> 2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.<br />1) 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.<br />2) 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.<br /> 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;<br /> 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.<br />3) 7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.<br />4)8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.<br /> 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:<br /> 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:<br /> 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.<br />5) 12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.<br />6) 13Thou shalt not kill<br />7)14Thou shalt not commit adultery.<br />8 )15Thou shalt not steal.<br />9) 16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.<br />10) 17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Thanks for posting the altered Catholic 10 C. I thought I'd post the Scriptural ones. <br />I'm starting to find this exciting! RW's and TS's ark is going to blast the pope's false Ethiopian ark with its false 10 commandments. /woohoo/ <br />
<br /><br /><br /><br />There are different versions of the 10 commandments (plus they are being put in different context in addition).<br />So there is not one and only structure but different believer groups use different structures of the commandments.<br /><br />
<br />The two texts commonly known as the Ten Commandments are given in two books of the Bible: Exodus 20:1–17<br /> <br />and Deuteronomy 5:4–21<br /> <br />.<br /><br />Religious groups use one of three historical divisions of Exodus 20:1–17 into ten parts[14] tabulated below:<br /><br /> Phi. The Philonic division is the oldest, from the writings of Philo and Josephus (first century), which labels verse 3 as number 1, verses 4–6 as number 2, and so on. Groups that generally follow this scheme include Hellenistic Jews, Greek Orthodox and Protestants except Lutherans. Most representations of the commandments include the prologue of verse 2 as either part of the first commandment or as a preface.[15][16]<br /> Tal. The Talmudic division, from the third-century Jewish Talmud, makes verses 1–2 as the first "saying" or "declaration" (rather than "commandment"), and combines verses 3–6 as number 2.[17]<br /> Aug. The Augustinian division (fifth century) starts with number 2 of the Talmudic division, and makes an extra commandment by dividing the prohibition on coveting into two. Both Roman Catholics and Martin Luther adopted the Augustinian method. Roman Catholics use Deuteronomy by default when quoting the Ten Commandments whereas Luther used the Exodus version.[18]
@Wish...thanks for the congrats on hitting 1000, you're a sweetheart bearhug. I know that # is relatively small compared to others here...but I've tried to add something to the 'family' along the way. I'm not good with numbers or dates (I never liked 'math'), I'm no where near as good an 'investigator' as so many brilliant minds here....and there's been a couple posts here and there that, looking back, I would have written 'differently' if I were faced with the same situation/discussion today (i.e. I sometimes showed my not-so-nice side lol). But even then, I don't regret one minute of this entire adventure...not one word. It truly has been a journey...and just as it's been a journey as a 'family' (which is an amazing thing in itself...how we've all come together!)...it's also been very much a journey of the 'self'. In studying one of 'the greats' with you all as a family...I have become greater for the experience. I believe we all have. <br /><br />Thank you Wish for staying close by me throughout our journey and throughout my own journey. I'll be there to crack open that Yellow Tail with you...whenever and wherever 'there' is.<br /><br />Love ya! Stay gold...<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
Where does that 06 06 06 come from ? <br />060606 is the general city information of the city of Rome.<br /><br />
“Call Rome 060606”: one number, one city<br />The new telephone service which gives access to information and<br />services provided by the Rome Municipal Government enters into<br />experimental stage.<br /><br />Rome, June 17th , 2002 – “Call Rome 060606” the experimental project<br />which enables citizens to have ready access to information and services<br />provided by the Rome Municipal Government only by dialing a single phone<br />number, has been presented today to the press, the citizens’ and consumers’<br />groups, and trade unions .<br /><br />“Call Rome 060606” is a service created in order to facilitate and hasten<br />contacts between citizens and the municipal administration. The At the cost<br />of a local phone call, the service operates on two levels. First level: users can<br />receive general information on services provided by the municipal<br />administration and business hours, and, if needed, they can be directly<br />connected to the various offices of the administration. Second level: users<br />who have specific questions can get more detailed, specific answers.<br />The service is available 24 hours a day all year round and operates like an<br />“integrated contact center” using cutting edge technology. Users are served<br />by a team of up to 70 operators, in the peak hours, who are continously<br />trained on communication systems, the organization of the municipal<br />administration and main internal procedures.<br /><br />The partners in this project are, in which 3 million euro, Poste Italiane (the<br />Italian Postal Service) and T-Systems Italia (Deutsche Telekom Group).<br />They formed a temporary Association of Enterprise and participated in a<br />European tender, winning the contract. They will manage the service for two<br />years.<br />
The City of Rome<br />060606 <br />This is the number of the call centre for the City of Rome which can be reached 24 hours a day, 365 days a year at the usual local rate. Operators answer your calls in real time to deal with any questions about the city and provide information on the offices and services provided by the Administration. This service is also available in English and, from Monday to Saturday, between 4pm and 7pm, in French, German, Spanish, Chinese, Arabic, Romanian, Albanian and Polish. On the days when the Beatification is being held, 060606 will provide any information related to the event.
<br />http://www.radiovaticana.org/EN1/articolo.asp?c=482436<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Vatican city always has +39 06 698.<br /><br /><br />Standard land line telephone numbers - the standard prefix for Rome is 06 and has been established in a closed telephone numbering plan like in the following telephone numbers:<br /><br />
Practical Information - PAPAL AUDIENCES: A ticket - always free of charge - is required for attending the General Audience on Wednesday mornings or other papal ceremonies. They are issued by the Prefecture of the Papal Household reached by way of the Bronze Door. The office is open Mondays from 9:00 to 13:00 and Tuesdays from 9:00 to 18:00. <br /><br />To request a ticket: <br />telephone +39.06.69883114 – +39.06.69884631; or fax +39.06.69885863.<br />---<br />- ST. PETER’S BASILICA: The Basilica is open every day from 7.00 to 19.00, April to September and from 7.00 to 18.00, October to March. To preserve the sacred character of the church, groups consisting of more than five members and accompanied by a guide are kindly requested to use "audio-guides" which can be rented at the entrance to the Basilica. Proper dress is required for admission to the Basilica. <br /><br />To rent "audio-guides":<br />telephone +39.06.69883229 or +39.06.69881898.<br /><br />- HISTORICAL AND ARTISTIC MUSEUM (Treasury): The Treasury is open from 9.00 to 18:15, April to September and from 9.00 to 17.15, October to March. The entrance is from inside St. Peter’s Basilica. <br /><br />- VISIT TO THE DOME: Visits to the dome of St. Peter’s are possible every day from 8.00 to 18.00, April to September and from 8.00 to 17.00, October to March. The entrance is at the portico of the Basilica.<br /><br />- VATICAN GROTTOES: The Vatican Grottoes are open every day from 7.00 to 18.00, April to September and from 7.00 to 17.00, October to March. The entrance is at the transept of St. Peter’s Basilica.<br /><br />- VISIT TO THE TOMB OF ST. PETER AND THE PRE-CONSTANTINIAN NECROPOLIS: For visits to the tomb of St. Peter and the necropolis, please contact the Ufficio Scavi (excavations office): tel. + 39.06 69 88 53 18; fax + 39.06 698 73017; e-mail: scavi@fsp.va . The office is open from 9.00 to 17.00, Monday to Friday and reached by way of the Arch of the Bells.<br />---<br />- VISIT TO THE VATICAN MUSEUMS: The Vatican Museums are open weekdays from 10:00 to 13:45 during November - February (except during the Christmas period when they are open from 8:45 to 16:45). During March - October the Museums are open Monday - Friday from 10:00 to 16:45 and Saturdays from 10:00 to 14:45. On the last Sunday of each month the Museums can be visited free of admission charge from 9:00 to 13:45. Entrance to the Museums is not possible from 75 minutes before closing time. <br /><br />For information:<br />telephone +39.06.69883860fax +39.06.69885433<br /><br />To arrange bookings for guided tours:<br />e-mail: visiteguidate.musei@scv.va .<br />tel. +39.06.698.84676 (for individuals);tel. +39.06.69883145 (for groups);fax +39.06.69883578.<br /><br />- AUDIO GUIDES may be rented at the entrance to the Vatican Museums. <br /><br />For information and reservations: <br />telephone +39.06.69883229 or +39.06.69881898.<br /><br />-A CAFETERIA is open during visiting hours.<br /><br />- VISITS TO THE ROMAN NECROPOLIS IN THE VIA TRIUMPHALIS. The Necropolis can be visited only through prior written bookings. This can be arranged by emailing:<br />visitedidattiche.musei@scv.va .<br /><br />- VISITS TO THE VATICAN GARDENS. The Vatican Gardens can be visited only through guided tours organized by the Guided Tours Office of the Vatican Museums. Tours depart from the Vatican Museums. Entrance to the Gardens is denied to persons not properly dressed. <br />For information: <br />telephone +39.06.69884676 (individuals) or +39.06.69883145 (groups). Bookings can be arranged by faxing +39.06.69885100 or by emailing: visiteguidate.musei@scv.va .<br /><br />---<br />- OFFICE FOR PILGRIMS AND TOURISTS<br /><br />Contacts: <br />tel. + 39.06 69 88 23 50, fax: + 39.06 69 88 16 94<br />e-Mail: upt@scv.va
06 698x xxxx (Vatican City from Italy) <br />+39 06 698x xxxx (Vatican City from rest of the world via Italy) <br />+379 698x xxxx (Vatican City direct from rest of the world)<br />ITU-T assigns country code +379 to Vatican City. However, Vatican City is still reached via the Italian telephone numbering plan with country code +39.
@Souza...I just finished reading your post (study) and wanted to thank you for sharing that with us. I haven't begun to research anything you said on my own yet (things that I'm 'unsure' of)...but based on past research I've done, a lot of what you said rings 'true' to my understanding of both the Bible and history. <br /><br />As I mentioned before, IMO, a lot of what we've been sharing is our 'interpretations' of things, especially when it comes to the Bible. However, much like the 'hoax', some interpretations become more plausible over others the more one researches, digs deeper and connects dots. No matter what...a whole lot of faith is required because A LOT of what we discuss here (or elsewhere) has not yet been 'proven' to be THE right interpretation.<br /><br />I've been looking deeper into the 'mark' and any possible connection to a Sunday Law being instituted. Again, there is no way to 'prove' (at this point anyway) what the 'mark' is exactly (i.e. it could be the NSL, it could be a chip of some sort, it could be a combination of both or it could even be neither). What can be, and is, 'proven' (based on my research so far) is that a Sunday Law being passed is not an imaginary thing or even a 'far-fetched' theory....it's already taking place (fact). What's also becoming clearer (speaking only for myself here)...is that, AS PER THE BIBLE (regardless of one's beliefs)...there is more evidence to support the importance of the Sabbath and it's UNchangeability, than there is to support the notion that the Sabbath has been, or can be, done away with in God's eyes.<br /><br />Here's some vids I came across that I found interesting (not sure if they've been posted here already). <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I haven't cross-checked/verified the verses mentioned in the following video with an actual Bible, nor will I have time to anytime soon. So if anyone catches something that is NOT accurate, kindly point it out.<br /><br /><br />I've never 'kept' the Sabbath in any 'proper' sense....and although I have a 'big picture' idea of what it means to 'keep the Sabbath', I'm not sure what it involves on a practical level. I'd really love to hear from those who do 'keep' it...with possibly some ideas as to how to 'keep' it properly (i.e. what is 'ok' to do on Saturdays, what shouldn't be done....what does 'no work' mean---does it include cooking, helping kids with homework, etc---where do we draw the line?....is it 'ok' to watch a movie or read a book or be online?, etc). I know that it is to be THE day of close communion with God, THE day of rest, THE day in celebration of His glory, etc...in a 'big picture/idea' kinda way I 'get it'. I don't know the Bible well enough to know this...but is there a 'guideline' somewhere in it where it speaks to specific things that can/can't or should/shouldn't be done on the Sabbath (i.e. a breakdown of what 'no work' or 'rest' means....because those 'concepts' in themselves can be interpreted differently)?<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
Comments
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."