Let’s just say that TS came in and sat down and gave us the whole scoop from start to finish. What do you think the first thing that would happen would be? I will tell you, there are many people that view this website that never comment that would come out of the wood work with their different ideas and viewpoints, and want TS to give some kind of proof that what he is saying is right. THEN we would be right back at square one having to go thru this whole scenario anyway.
Exactly!
Also, there has been progress in all of this investigation; and we will have a new level up in a couple of hours!
<!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->
NEW LEVEL! NEW LEVEL! NEW LEVEL! <!-- sparty/ -->party/<!-- sparty/ -->
Perfect timing TS, i didn't sleep whole night and my brain is most active now! I'm not kidding, it's true. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
Could you please tell us what is the progress that you are referring to? What questions have been answered? Please <!-- sbow/ -->bow/<!-- sbow/ -->
L.O.V.E to all! <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
Let’s just say that TS came in and sat down and gave us the whole scoop from start to finish. What do you think the first thing that would happen would be? I will tell you, there are many people that view this website that never comment that would come out of the wood work with their different ideas and viewpoints, and want TS to give some kind of proof that what he is saying is right. THEN we would be right back at square one having to go thru this whole scenario anyway.
Exactly!
Also, there has been progress in all of this investigation; and we will have a new level up in a couple of hours!
<!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->
Saying there has been progress does not help the investigation since we don't know where we've progressed. There are a lot of intelligent but different opinions here, people worked really hard, how do we know which one are the unequivocal conclusions. How do we know which are the wrong elements to remove them from our further investigation, so we can evolve as you say. And where does this head to? Evolve in what?
Probably you won't answer if your knowledge is from a legit source. It's not about identity, it's about the information. Do you know more than us from a legit source or are you just like us? This changes everything, because we have to know if your answers value more than any other members, simply because you're in the "know" and they're not. Are you in the "know" or are you simply investigating like us?
Also, if you say there has been progress in all of this investigation you arrogate yourself a superior position (not in a bad way), but only a person who know the answers can tell us if we made progress. Please don't trick us and be honest: are you entitled to tell us that we have made progress or is it just a narcisistic projection of your intelligence? Sorry if you find my post unpolite, but it is really important to know that. Maybe others simply enjoy games and levels and don't care about your source of knowlegde that much, but i really have to know if making progress is a fact or an assumption. It would be a fair game for both sides.
Let’s just say that TS came in and sat down and gave us the whole scoop from start to finish. What do you think the first thing that would happen would be? I will tell you, there are many people that view this website that never comment that would come out of the wood work with their different ideas and viewpoints, and want TS to give some kind of proof that what he is saying is right. THEN we would be right back at square one having to go thru this whole scenario anyway.
Exactly!
Also, there has been progress in all of this investigation; and we will have a new level up in a couple of hours!
<!-- styping/ -->typing/<!-- styping/ -->
I'm not complaining but where are the conclusions for this one <!-- ssuspicious// -->suspicious//<!-- ssuspicious// --> ?
I agree!! This happened last time we "moved up" ..whatever...I never saw a conclusion there either... Still don't know what decisions we've come to everytime we supposedly "graduated" to another level! I WANT TO KNOW TOO, that's on reason I'm here all day every day. Can't someone tell me what we've accomplished at each "level"..?
I agree!! This happened last time we "moved up" ..whatever...I never saw a conclusion there either... Still don't know what decisions we've come to everytime we supposedly "graduated" to another level! I WANT TO KNOW TOO, that's on reason I'm here all day every day. Can't someone tell me what we've accomplished at each "level"..?
Well, this is what TS said in the post from today about what has been accomplished.
"In level one, we found that the ambulance photo was staged in advance. In level two, we found that at least a few key people in the FBI are helping with the hoax (and cooperating with one or more in the LAFD). In level three, there are still a few different ideas about who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA; most agree however that a corpse was not used."
So:
1. The photo is staged before 25th of June 2009 (and still he hasn't given any answer to the leaf pattern, what was that and what it meant)
2. The FBI is making this work, at least some key people in FBI and cooperating with one of more from LAFD. So the paramedics (at least few of them) are in
3. There's still no proof wether a body was used or not.
I agree!! This happened last time we "moved up" ..whatever...I never saw a conclusion there either... Still don't know what decisions we've come to everytime we supposedly "graduated" to another level! I WANT TO KNOW TOO, that's on reason I'm here all day every day. Can't someone tell me what we've accomplished at each "level"..?
Well, this is what TS said in the post from today about what has been accomplished.
"In level one, we found that the ambulance photo was staged in advance. In level two, we found that at least a few key people in the FBI are helping with the hoax (and cooperating with one or more in the LAFD). In level three, there are still a few different ideas about who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA; most agree however that a corpse was not used."
So:
1. The photo is staged before 25th of June 2009 (and still he hasn't given any answer to the leaf pattern, what was that and what it meant)
2. The FBI is making this work, at least some key people in FBI and cooperating with one of more from LAFD. So the paramedics (at least few of them) are in
3. There's still no proof wether a body was used or not.
I hope I helped you, fordtocarr.
YES...thank you Anna....I also now see that TS has posted that on another thread. Thanks for the reply so quick <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->) LOVE
I agree!! This happened last time we "moved up" ..whatever...I never saw a conclusion there either... Still don't know what decisions we've come to everytime we supposedly "graduated" to another level! I WANT TO KNOW TOO, that's on reason I'm here all day every day. Can't someone tell me what we've accomplished at each "level"..?
Well, this is what TS said in the post from today about what has been accomplished.
"In level one, we found that the ambulance photo was staged in advance. In level two, we found that at least a few key people in the FBI are helping with the hoax (and cooperating with one or more in the LAFD). In level three, there are still a few different ideas about who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA; most agree however that a corpse was not used."
So:
1. The photo is staged before 25th of June 2009 (and still he hasn't given any answer to the leaf pattern, what was that and what it meant)
2. The FBI is making this work, at least some key people in FBI and cooperating with one of more from LAFD. So the paramedics (at least few of them) are in
3. There's still no proof wether a body was used or not.
I hope I helped you, fordtocarr.
Sorry, but I have to say that there is nothing new here, this we already knew or at least distrusted. I still dream about knowing anything truly important. I insist on knowing what happened at Hospital UCLA, this is the key to everything! Michael remained there for over 1 hour (at least from what we were told). If it was all an illusion, why not declare him dead the more fast? If the doctors worked on it for hours, as Jermaine said, many people would have access to him. I know what I mean! Within a hospital has no way to limit entry of the profissionals.
I've tried to pull the subject of UCLA several times, but people seem not to care about it.
Perhaps TS does not know of anything that occurred there, so I'll continue to be ignored. Because we only have discussions about things that came out on TV? The ambulance was leaving the house, the photo and now the court. Everything else remains a mystery forever? Yeah, maybe.
If the doctors worked on it for hours, as Jermaine said, many people would have access to him.
Yeah well to follow your logic you have to assume JJ was telling the truth. Do you?
I don't.
I do not know if it was true, but it is news that the world was given. Just know that this could easily be denied. Michael would not take this risk, the FBI would not control all. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
If the doctors worked on it for hours, as Jermaine said, many people would have access to him.
Yeah well to follow your logic you have to assume JJ was telling the truth. Do you?
I don't.
I do not know if it was true, but it is news that the world was given. Just know that this could easily be denied. Michael would not take this risk, the FBI would not control all. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
By who? Someone who says they weren't there and saw nothing? Think about it.
If the doctors worked on it for hours, as Jermaine said, many people would have access to him.
Yeah well to follow your logic you have to assume JJ was telling the truth. Do you?
I don't.
I do not know if it was true, but it is news that the world was given. Just know that this could easily be denied. Michael would not take this risk, the FBI would not control all. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
By who? Someone who says they weren't there and saw nothing? Think about it.
Bec, thanks. It's not for lack of thinking, but I find no consistent response. Do you?
I'm really confused about UCLA. I really think somebody could say that he was not there at that time and nobody saw anything. Anyway, this would be a great risk, is not it?
Saying there has been progress does not help the investigation since we don't know where we've progressed. There are a lot of intelligent but different opinions here, people worked really hard, how do we know which one are the unequivocal conclusions. How do we know which are the wrong elements to remove them from our further investigation, so we can evolve as you say. And where does this head to? Evolve in what?
I agree!! This happened last time we "moved up" ..whatever...I never saw a conclusion there either... Still don't know what decisions we've come to everytime we supposedly "graduated" to another level! I WANT TO KNOW TOO, that's on reason I'm here all day every day. Can't someone tell me what we've accomplished at each "level"..?
I have to agree with both of you. I've been reading every single post that we have been making but I do not see any progress or conclusion. IF creating irrational theories and talking about if the bushes outside of the house changed is a progress, then yes we did lots of progress! First we had the ambulance picture thread from TS, what's the conclusion of it? Everyone states their opinion about these issues and most of them are entitled to their opinions. How do we know which one is the right one? If there is no conclusion, why do we start discussing about it? What's the purpose?
Saying there has been progress does not help the investigation since we don't know where we've progressed. There are a lot of intelligent but different opinions here, people worked really hard, how do we know which one are the unequivocal conclusions. How do we know which are the wrong elements to remove them from our further investigation, so we can evolve as you say. And where does this head to? Evolve in what?
I agree!! This happened last time we "moved up" ..whatever...I never saw a conclusion there either... Still don't know what decisions we've come to everytime we supposedly "graduated" to another level! I WANT TO KNOW TOO, that's on reason I'm here all day every day. Can't someone tell me what we've accomplished at each "level"..?
I have to agree with both of you. I've been reading every single post that we have been making but I do not see any progress or conclusion. IF creating irrational theories and talking about if the bushes outside of the house changed is a progress, then yes we did lots of progress! First we had the ambulance picture thread from TS, what's the conclusion of it? Everyone states their opinion about these issues and most of them are entitled to their opinions. How do we know which one is the right one? If there is no conclusion, why do we start discussing about it? What's the purpose?
DITTO!!!
Like I told TS...if you know something...spill it. Back it up. Granted, this is ONE HELL OF A GREAT analytical mind TS has. Granted, we appreciate his scholarly ways. But...it's become a game. One where we have to advance. But, when we get to the advance area...we don't even know we are there and we don't know how we got there. There isn't even and sign to say where we are or how we got there.
All the things he tells us to do..HE NEED TO DO. He says to be able to back up our claims...WELL, DO IT TOO TS. Don't goose chase us. We'd LOVE to have your ways be correct!! We work towards it. We try to reaffirm your leads. But, you need to tell us where we are. What's right if right. Level us up?? For what?? What did we do right? We are still all speculating all over the place and hoping our way is correct.
You make yourself less credible when you say....you can move to the next level.. what???? What are these levels...when did you take over and enlist us in this game like "dungeons and dragons" in that you are the storyteller and we create the story around your plot!!!!
I WANT YOU TO BE RIGHT. I WANT US TO PROVE IT. BUT, WE DO NOT KNOW WHERE WE ARE RIGHT OR WRONG AND STILL ARE OUT WALKING IN THE DARKNESS...
I'm agreeing with you PureLove <!-- sbeerchug -->beerchug<!-- sbeerchug -->
I'm not complaining but where are the conclusions for this one <!-- ssuspicious// -->suspicious//<!-- ssuspicious// --> ?
Well, they gotta be here, somewhere in all the pages. I noticed that I missed something the LAST time he upped the level. It helps me to just think: <!-- smichael-jackson/ -->michael-jackson/<!-- smichael-jackson/ --> "the hand is quicker than the eye", and keep following, hoping it will all dawn on me at some point. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I want to thank you all who encourage me to keep on hoaxing, including you TS. I didn't mean to rant or sound depressed on this thread (there is one for that), but I DID want TS to know my feelings, so I placed it in his thread.
I am still no better off in the confusion, and I see that the posts following mine are not either. TS, you posted in the very next comment to the one to me, in your first sentence, another obscure statement. The very thing that upsets me. Right off, you say "Let me first answer why there were not more people on the scene, if it was really 6-25-09." Why, if you KNOW or don't know, just SAY it?? Why lead us on goose chases where we are like the blind, perhaps thinking we've picked up the golden egg when it was only goose poo! We go on thinking we have it and then days later, you give us another "clue" that says something again obscure and double sided so we really don't know if we're right or wrong. When you could JUST SAY IT!!You are a very valuable, intellectual, reasoning, investigative person to us. But, I think you lead us to feel, in your intelligence, that all you present is correct or in the "know". We tend to give up other theories because again of your presented persona, which may be correct, when you could be just theorizing or speculating as we are.
Forgive me, please, you know how harmful I feel toward the messing with lives with this approach. I am so grateful to your imput, I just really believe, put up or shut up. Prove it or it's speculation. You lead us to varied opinion, not consensus, and if you KNOW a fact, then there COULD BE a consensus. FINALLY.
There is method to the madness.
Of course, TS KNOWs, if he is in anyway on the inside of this Mystery. Either he is writing it as he goes (NO), or he and MJ (and one other, I think <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> )have already worked out the millions of little details in this complex legal case, which will make or break the case, depending on an important hurdle of unpredictability: the thoughts (deductions) and emotions which form jury opinion, which decides the outcome of the case, barring judicial overrule.
I think "TS" stands for "The Solicitor". He is male. He is an attorney. Could be Branca. Remember how they tried hard to paint him as an enemy, to throw us off his trail as in on the Hoax Plot...
WhoEVER he is, he is not a criminal attorney, but he is quick enough to know that no matter how ironclad the evidence, and how airtight the case they have worked out, everything can go WAY south if they cannot convince a jury. <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> People are quirky.
The object of this game (figuratively speaking) here, is not to come right out and tell us what TS already mostly knows (they may be deciding about something or other, yet).
It is not to build or flesh out their case, either, which I think, barring new evidence, is wrapped up).
It ESPECIALLY is not to frustrate us! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> One thing may be frustrating THEM to no end <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> : is, that you cannot MAKE people see something which they don't (or won't) see!! THEY must point it out, unmistakeably. It is the lawyer's job.
A CRAFTY lawyer can put an innocent man in prison for a lifetime, convincing people that they see something which is not EVEN there. This is where the phrase came from that "Lawyers are LIARS".
But, a man of integrity, who wishes to hone his craft and consistently win for his clients, with the TRUTH, NEEDs to be able to paint the facts, logically, inside the heads of unlimited types of people, any given day: the distracted, the disinterested, those selected for jury against their preference, the under educated (on the subject at hand), the immature (growing old doesn't mean growing up), the antagonistic or hostile, people who, from the get go, hold prejudice for your client, and on and on and on.... <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
It is a test, <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> (NOT of US) to see if presenting evidence in various ways will better control the outcome of opinion. The genius is in trying to "make us see" (where have we heard THAT?); or, trying to see if they CAN make all different kinds of people, SEE how it IS and win the case. See? <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
There is NO pressure on us. <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> Yeah, use your "noodle", but, don't worry about it! It is supposed to be fun and educational. I refuse to feel like a lab mouse intellect (squeak), next to some of the ultra intelligent, here, because photography was never my thing, professionally or recreationally. I help myself to cheese every day, whether I'm rewarded here or NOT. We all have different things to add. It is not a competition. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
TS simply needs to make it clearer. If he were trying this case in court, and he can't give US (the most interested and focused audience EVER) enough facts arranged to be crystal clear to US, how are the actual attorneys going to prove it to the average joe? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->
Just throwing that out there.... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
the solicitor : what about oxman? is it possible ? what do you think?
The first time he really spoke about it was in TIAI Revealed Part 6:
Then what about the MJ “Return” to public view, when will that be? Well, the sad thing is that potentially he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it; in fact, the old MJHD was forbidding discussion on this subject! And just a few days later, it went down and was out for about a week. We simply were not ready for MJ to return yet; if he had, in all the excitement, people would’ve had little or no interest in studying into the NWO aspects of the hoax.
Since people were not ready for the MJ return at Halloween: immediately after the TII movie was released, TIAI was set up. The purpose of TIAI was (and still is) to give MJ fans, and especially hoax believers, a better understanding and bigger picture of the hoax and the reasons for it; this in turn would help prepare the way for the MJ “Return”!
You see, they couldn’t arrest Dr. Murray in October, and then have him sit in jail for not killing MJ—and then let him out in January or beyond when MJ returns, and says it’s all a hoax. So they did not arrest him in October. But if MJ was not planning on returning until January or beyond: then why the statement about an arrest back in October? Why not just say, back in October, that it would not be completed until 2010? Could it be that in early October, MJ was still planning on the “return” at Halloween—and then he had to change his plans?
Here again, this clue had more than one meaning. A fairly obvious one is that Easter relates to the resurrection theme of TII, especially the Thriller part. Does this mean that MJ will return next April, during the Easter season? Not necessarily. Then when can we expect the MJ return to public view? That’s what everyone wants to know, right?
As he said at the end of the movie: I will come “in my own time”; it is up to him alone, and nobody else will be able to figure it out for sure. Some distinct possibilities include: 12-25-09 (Christmas), 12-31-09 (full moon & New Years Eve), 1-1-10 (New Years Day), 1-18-10 (MLK Day), 1-25-10 (seven months since the “death”, and same time as the DVD release), or beyond. Hopefully not beyond; but that may depend, to a certain extent, on whether MJ fans are ready for the return (understand the TIAI message, join the Army of L.O.V.E., etc).
This is from TIAI Revealed Part 7:
Michael is well aware of these NWO powers, their corruption, their tremendous power, and their conspiracies (see R29). And he knows that these powers control the mass media; which means that if you do a hoax to expose the mass media corruption, you are inherently going to come under the wrath of the powers that control the media—you can’t do one, without having the other. So he has to be very careful with when and how he returns to the public eye.
It is my belief that when Michael does return there will be a war but it will be a non violent, peaceful war. A war based on numbers, unity, wits and L.O.V.E.”
Thank you a lot! I know you did an effort and took your time for it!
So, TS's words: You see, they couldn’t arrest Dr. Murray in October, and then have him sit in jail for not killing MJ—and then let him out in January or beyond when MJ returns, and says it’s all a hoax. So they did not arrest him in October.
Here what i understand is that Murray can't be arrested if Michael plans to come back, which is a logical conclusion. Hence, the delay - maybe the return preparations need more time.
Following same line i can assume that if Murray will be sent to jail, Michael's return is off.
Then TS' words: he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it
So is the return in our hands? Hands of believers? (because of course non-believers can't undersand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax while they don't even know there is a hoax). Will Michael delay the trial until he feels we understood the NWO? Was this a plan from the beginning? How could he know what was to happen. There was a big chance that this hoax rumours wold fade away within months, that people would not spent time on forums investigating every little aspect of his death , every single clue, less or more clue...So who was he counting on when planning? Assume 20% of this Planet is Michael's book for study and fans. Then let's say 10% of them accept he is dead. there are 10% left believers. about 2% gave up this hoax or are simply tired to speculate longer. 8%. From 8& not everyone has internet or not everyone communicates throgh interent or has the time or will to study this hoax deep and so serious that eventually to lead to a NWO conclusion. And there are so many many aspects that decrease the number of people left, we can all figure. Ok, i'm optimistic and say 5% actually will understand the NWO implications and the seriousness of this hoax. Then what happens, what is the result of our (few people) knowledge for Michael?
Further more, If this is a sting court then i can't even relate how is his return in our hands.
but that may depend, to a certain extent, on whether MJ fans are ready for the return (understand the TIAI message, join the Army of L.O.V.E., etc).
So his return may depend to a certain extent on a few thousand forum members who must understand TIAI message and join the Army of Love. Then this must be Michael's work backstage because TS can't speak on his behalf. How is Jermaine encouraging us to move on and stp hoax talking when we are supposed to understand the seriousness of this hoax, the NWO implications and TIAI messages?
heartphantom, these and more questions run through my head all day long.
What if he's right, and it does somehow rest in our hands. What if we drop the ball? Will he cancel his life's work? Can't be. But then... maybe we could make it easier for him by helping grease the wheels.
Will he cancel his life's work? And his life with his children? And will he be living in hiding for the rest of his life? No, if he chooses all that, i can't believe it's all because of us. I just can't, it's too much to quit life, just because we're ignorants , what is his gain? Only loss. Losing life and family. makes no sense from the start because If one loves this world so much that he is able to give up his own life and children then how can he help his world by staying forever in hiding because of our failure to see?
But for any matter, i agree and we can at least try to make it easier for him even if this is not in our hands. But how? How?
Well if you listen to TS he says we have to prove it. If we prove it, then the prosecutors will look like idiots. MJ can come back because it's not an air tight hoax. If you really wanted to know the truth you could find it----> so proves us.
I want to thank you all who encourage me to keep on hoaxing, including you TS. I didn't mean to rant or sound depressed on this thread (there is one for that), but I DID want TS to know my feelings, so I placed it in his thread.
I am still no better off in the confusion, and I see that the posts following mine are not either. TS, you posted in the very next comment to the one to me, in your first sentence, another obscure statement. The very thing that upsets me. Right off, you say "Let me first answer why there were not more people on the scene, if it was really 6-25-09." Why, if you KNOW or don't know, just SAY it?? Why lead us on goose chases where we are like the blind, perhaps thinking we've picked up the golden egg when it was only goose poo! We go on thinking we have it and then days later, you give us another "clue" that says something again obscure and double sided so we really don't know if we're right or wrong. When you could JUST SAY IT!!You are a very valuable, intellectual, reasoning, investigative person to us. But, I think you lead us to feel, in your intelligence, that all you present is correct or in the "know". We tend to give up other theories because again of your presented persona, which may be correct, when you could be just theorizing or speculating as we are.
Forgive me, please, you know how harmful I feel toward the messing with lives with this approach. I am so grateful to your imput, I just really believe, put up or shut up. Prove it or it's speculation. You lead us to varied opinion, not consensus, and if you KNOW a fact, then there COULD BE a consensus. FINALLY.
There is method to the madness.
Of course, TS KNOWs, if he is in anyway on the inside of this Mystery. Either he is writing it as he goes (NO), or he and MJ (and one other, I think <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> )have already worked out the millions of little details in this complex legal case, which will make or break the case, depending on an important hurdle of unpredictability: the thoughts (deductions) and emotions which form jury opinion, which decides the outcome of the case, barring judicial overrule.
I think "TS" stands for "The Solicitor". He is male. He is an attorney. Could be Branca. Remember how they tried hard to paint him as an enemy, to throw us off his trail as in on the Hoax Plot...
WhoEVER he is, he is not a criminal attorney, but he is quick enough to know that no matter how ironclad the evidence, and how airtight the case they have worked out, everything can go WAY south if they cannot convince a jury. <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> People are quirky.
The object of this game (figuratively speaking) here, is not to come right out and tell us what TS already mostly knows (they may be deciding about something or other, yet).
It is not to build or flesh out their case, either, which I think, barring new evidence, is wrapped up).
It ESPECIALLY is not to frustrate us! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> One thing may be frustrating THEM to no end <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) --> : is, that you cannot MAKE people see something which they don't (or won't) see!! THEY must point it out, unmistakeably. It is the lawyer's job.
A CRAFTY lawyer can put an innocent man in prison for a lifetime, convincing people that they see something which is not EVEN there. This is where the phrase came from that "Lawyers are LIARS".
But, a man of integrity, who wishes to hone his craft and consistently win for his clients, with the TRUTH, NEEDs to be able to paint the facts, logically, inside the heads of unlimited types of people, any given day: the distracted, the disinterested, those selected for jury against their preference, the under educated (on the subject at hand), the immature (growing old doesn't mean growing up), the antagonistic or hostile, people who, from the get go, hold prejudice for your client, and on and on and on.... <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
It is a test, <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> (NOT of US) to see if presenting evidence in various ways will better control the outcome of opinion. The genius is in trying to "make us see" (where have we heard THAT?); or, trying to see if they CAN make all different kinds of people, SEE how it IS and win the case. See? <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
There is NO pressure on us. <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> Yeah, use your "noodle", but, don't worry about it! It is supposed to be fun and educational. I refuse to feel like a lab mouse intellect (squeak), next to some of the ultra intelligent, here, because photography was never my thing, professionally or recreationally. I help myself to cheese every day, whether I'm rewarded here or NOT. We all have different things to add. It is not a competition. <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
TS simply needs to make it clearer. If he were trying this case in court, and he can't give US (the most interested and focused audience EVER) enough facts arranged to be crystal clear to US, how are the actual attorneys going to prove it to the average joe? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->
Just throwing that out there.... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
the solicitor : what about oxman? is it possible ? what do you think?
I never thought of him. MJ said, "Nothing's real, ALL is possible....". Oxman may be a solicitor...for trouble!! I don't know that much about him, but he seems like the perfect show-offy goofball to involve himself in a hoax (of ANYTHING <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> ). Still, I think he is WAAAAAY too silly to be TS, who has demonstrated GREAT logic, self-discipline and restraint, in the planning and composing all the posts in his name....TS seems to be a very calm peaceful soul. Is Brian Oxman? <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
IDK, but has Dave Dave gotten his law degree, yet? HE could <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> be behind the curtain, here, too, for college credit, or just for fine tuning his brief-writing skills... Or, and THIS is REEEEEALLY a long shot, but TS may not be an attorney, at ALL. He COULD be a scriptwriter, writing in the persona of a solicitor!!!! I won't say which scriptwriter, yet. If it IS the person I have in mind <!-- salbino/ -->albino/<!-- salbino/ --> , you all will go NUTS. (I don't feel like a beat-down, right now...perhaps a little later... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> ) <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ --> <!-- srespect/ -->respect/<!-- srespect/ -->
Comments
NEW LEVEL! NEW LEVEL! NEW LEVEL! <!-- sparty/ -->party/<!-- sparty/ -->
Perfect timing TS, i didn't sleep whole night and my brain is most active now! I'm not kidding, it's true. <!-- sbounce/ -->bounce/<!-- sbounce/ -->
Could you please tell us what is the progress that you are referring to? What questions have been answered? Please <!-- sbow/ -->bow/<!-- sbow/ -->
L.O.V.E to all! <!-- sbearhug -->bearhug<!-- sbearhug -->
Looking forward to the next level TS.
Love the new board look and smilies too Souza!!! <!-- smj_dance/ -->mj_dance/<!-- smj_dance/ -->
Saying there has been progress does not help the investigation since we don't know where we've progressed. There are a lot of intelligent but different opinions here, people worked really hard, how do we know which one are the unequivocal conclusions. How do we know which are the wrong elements to remove them from our further investigation, so we can evolve as you say. And where does this head to? Evolve in what?
Probably you won't answer if your knowledge is from a legit source. It's not about identity, it's about the information. Do you know more than us from a legit source or are you just like us? This changes everything, because we have to know if your answers value more than any other members, simply because you're in the "know" and they're not. Are you in the "know" or are you simply investigating like us?
Well, this is what TS said in the post from today about what has been accomplished.
"In level one, we found that the ambulance photo was staged in advance. In level two, we found that at least a few key people in the FBI are helping with the hoax (and cooperating with one or more in the LAFD). In level three, there are still a few different ideas about who or what (if anything) went in the ambulance on the stretcher to UCLA; most agree however that a corpse was not used."
So:
1. The photo is staged before 25th of June 2009 (and still he hasn't given any answer to the leaf pattern, what was that and what it meant)
2. The FBI is making this work, at least some key people in FBI and cooperating with one of more from LAFD. So the paramedics (at least few of them) are in
3. There's still no proof wether a body was used or not.
I hope I helped you, fordtocarr.
Sorry, but I have to say that there is nothing new here, this we already knew or at least distrusted. I still dream about knowing anything truly important. I insist on knowing what happened at Hospital UCLA, this is the key to everything! Michael remained there for over 1 hour (at least from what we were told). If it was all an illusion, why not declare him dead the more fast? If the doctors worked on it for hours, as Jermaine said, many people would have access to him. I know what I mean! Within a hospital has no way to limit entry of the profissionals.
I've tried to pull the subject of UCLA several times, but people seem not to care about it.
Perhaps TS does not know of anything that occurred there, so I'll continue to be ignored. Because we only have discussions about things that came out on TV? The ambulance was leaving the house, the photo and now the court. Everything else remains a mystery forever? Yeah, maybe.
Yeah well to follow your logic you have to assume JJ was telling the truth. Do you?
I don't.
By who? Someone who says they weren't there and saw nothing? Think about it.
Bec, thanks. It's not for lack of thinking, but I find no consistent response. Do you?
I'm really confused about UCLA. I really think somebody could say that he was not there at that time and nobody saw anything. Anyway, this would be a great risk, is not it?
I have to agree with both of you. I've been reading every single post that we have been making but I do not see any progress or conclusion. IF creating irrational theories and talking about if the bushes outside of the house changed is a progress, then yes we did lots of progress! First we had the ambulance picture thread from TS, what's the conclusion of it? Everyone states their opinion about these issues and most of them are entitled to their opinions. How do we know which one is the right one? If there is no conclusion, why do we start discussing about it? What's the purpose?
DITTO!!!
Like I told TS...if you know something...spill it. Back it up. Granted, this is ONE HELL OF A GREAT analytical mind TS has. Granted, we appreciate his scholarly ways. But...it's become a game. One where we have to advance. But, when we get to the advance area...we don't even know we are there and we don't know how we got there. There isn't even and sign to say where we are or how we got there.
All the things he tells us to do..HE NEED TO DO. He says to be able to back up our claims...WELL, DO IT TOO TS. Don't goose chase us. We'd LOVE to have your ways be correct!! We work towards it. We try to reaffirm your leads. But, you need to tell us where we are. What's right if right. Level us up?? For what?? What did we do right? We are still all speculating all over the place and hoping our way is correct.
You make yourself less credible when you say....you can move to the next level.. what???? What are these levels...when did you take over and enlist us in this game like "dungeons and dragons" in that you are the storyteller and we create the story around your plot!!!!
I WANT YOU TO BE RIGHT. I WANT US TO PROVE IT. BUT, WE DO NOT KNOW WHERE WE ARE RIGHT OR WRONG AND STILL ARE OUT WALKING IN THE DARKNESS...
I'm agreeing with you PureLove <!-- sbeerchug -->beerchug<!-- sbeerchug -->
Well, they gotta be here, somewhere in all the pages. I noticed that I missed something the LAST time he upped the level. It helps me to just think: <!-- smichael-jackson/ -->michael-jackson/<!-- smichael-jackson/ --> "the hand is quicker than the eye", and keep following, hoping it will all dawn on me at some point. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
the solicitor : what about oxman? is it possible ? what do you think?
Yes, he's spoken about it several times.
The first time he really spoke about it was in TIAI Revealed Part 6:
This is from TIAI Revealed Part 7:
This whole post is about the beginning of the return: <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=125&t=3391&p=52818#p52818<!-- l --> and this one contains a lot of info about a return: <!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=125&t=3965&p=61068#p61068<!-- l -->
There is many more in later posts, I would include them too, but I'm short on time. They're in his posts though, <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
So, TS's words: You see, they couldn’t arrest Dr. Murray in October, and then have him sit in jail for not killing MJ—and then let him out in January or beyond when MJ returns, and says it’s all a hoax. So they did not arrest him in October.
Here what i understand is that Murray can't be arrested if Michael plans to come back, which is a logical conclusion. Hence, the delay - maybe the return preparations need more time.
Following same line i can assume that if Murray will be sent to jail, Michael's return is off.
Then TS' words: he could’ve returned at Halloween; but we were not ready. We did not understand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax, or the seriousness of it
So is the return in our hands? Hands of believers? (because of course non-believers can't undersand the NWO conspiracy aspect of the hoax while they don't even know there is a hoax). Will Michael delay the trial until he feels we understood the NWO? Was this a plan from the beginning? How could he know what was to happen. There was a big chance that this hoax rumours wold fade away within months, that people would not spent time on forums investigating every little aspect of his death , every single clue, less or more clue...So who was he counting on when planning? Assume 20% of this Planet is Michael's book for study and fans. Then let's say 10% of them accept he is dead. there are 10% left believers. about 2% gave up this hoax or are simply tired to speculate longer. 8%. From 8& not everyone has internet or not everyone communicates throgh interent or has the time or will to study this hoax deep and so serious that eventually to lead to a NWO conclusion. And there are so many many aspects that decrease the number of people left, we can all figure. Ok, i'm optimistic and say 5% actually will understand the NWO implications and the seriousness of this hoax. Then what happens, what is the result of our (few people) knowledge for Michael?
Further more, If this is a sting court then i can't even relate how is his return in our hands.
So his return may depend to a certain extent on a few thousand forum members who must understand TIAI message and join the Army of Love. Then this must be Michael's work backstage because TS can't speak on his behalf. How is Jermaine encouraging us to move on and stp hoax talking when we are supposed to understand the seriousness of this hoax, the NWO implications and TIAI messages?
What if he's right, and it does somehow rest in our hands. What if we drop the ball? Will he cancel his life's work? Can't be. But then... maybe we could make it easier for him by helping grease the wheels.
But for any matter, i agree and we can at least try to make it easier for him even if this is not in our hands. But how? How?
I never thought of him. MJ said, "Nothing's real, ALL is possible....". Oxman may be a solicitor...for trouble!! I don't know that much about him, but he seems like the perfect show-offy goofball to involve himself in a hoax (of ANYTHING <!-- s
IDK, but has Dave Dave gotten his law degree, yet? HE could <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> be behind the curtain, here, too, for college credit, or just for fine tuning his brief-writing skills... Or, and THIS is REEEEEALLY a long shot, but TS may not be an attorney, at ALL. He COULD be a scriptwriter, writing in the persona of a solicitor!!!! I won't say which scriptwriter, yet. If it IS the person I have in mind <!-- salbino/ -->albino/<!-- salbino/ --> , you all will go NUTS. (I don't feel like a beat-down, right now...perhaps a little later... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> <!-- s