I have never heard of ECas in the Leave Me Alone video and I just checked the official threads and it does not mention it.
Sony used ECas in Who Is It because of Michael's schedules. They show Ecas in the car where he covers his face and also blurred when he is at the airport. Michael was upset about that and so the video was banned in the US.
Rag doll, do you mean that he used doubles because he hated to tour?
I don´t know - could be part of the root.
Why did he hate to tour?
He didn't like the different timezones.
he also used doubles in his Music Videos. like E'Cas was the Michael on the Rocket in the ''Leave Me Alone'' Video. Because of schedule conflicts.
I am sorry, but does anyone know E'cas' age? I think he is way to young to have played that. And altough he is one of the best impersonaters, he doesn't look that much like him.
IMO, I find E-Cass is the one with the closest eyes to MJ.
Rag doll, do you mean that he used doubles because he hated to tour?
I don´t know - could be part of the root.
Why did he hate to tour?
He didn't like the different timezones.
he also used doubles in his Music Videos. like E'Cas was the Michael on the Rocket in the ''Leave Me Alone'' Video. Because of schedule conflicts.
I am sorry, but does anyone know E'cas' age? I think he is way to young to have played that. And altough he is one of the best impersonaters, he doesn't look that much like him.
IMO, I find E-Cass is the one with the closest eyes to MJ.
From what I see on pictures ECas is also a very attractive man without the make-over.
But beyond that: it´s probably not hard to find a good make-up artist in Hollywood who´s able to lend a hand, some shades and a wig to style even someone who only has a vague resemblance for a picture or a video scene.
I think to find someone who´s able to act throughout a whole concert in front of a live-audience -incl. dancing, talking, gestures, etc - would be a more challenging project.
So if there has been someone who met those particular requirements and took care of business by jumping in now and then: Respect! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
Since we're reached the point of thinking about the intentions of the double(s) I'd like you to take a look at the following image. This image contains signatures, supposedly Mike's, on official documents and letters. I numbered them, and made a list showing which signature appears on which document/letter:
1: Marriage license Lisa Marie Presley
2: The Chandler settlement
3: Letter concerning participation in project "The Way of the Unicorn/The Endangered Ones"
4: The will
5: Moonwalk
6: Passport issued in 1987
7: Letter firing John Branca
8: Letter to Diane Williams, cease and desist from signing for his certified mail
9: Letter to Judge Melville substitution of Tom Mesereau in place of Geragos
10: Passport issued in 1993
11: Drivers license
12: AEG contract signature "Michael Jackson"
13: AEG contract signature "The Michael Jackson Company LLC, Name: Michael Jackson"
14: Contract mayor city of Gary concerning The Michael J Jackson Performing Arts Center
After comparing these signatures, of which some differ significantly from others, the question rises:
WHO SIGNED WHICH DOCUMENT/LETTER, AND WITH WHICH INTENTIONS?
Since we're reached the point of thinking about the intentions of the double(s) I'd like you to take a look at the following image. This image contains signatures, supposedly Mike's, on official documents and letters. I numbered them, and made a list showing which signature appears on which document/letter:
1: Marriage license Lisa Marie Presley
2: The Chandler settlement
3: Letter concerning participation in project "The Way of the Unicorn/The Endangered Ones"
4: The will
5: Moonwalk
6: Passport issued in 1987
7: Letter firing John Branca
8: Letter to Diane Williams, cease and desist from signing for his certified mail
9: Letter to Judge Melville substitution of Tom Mesereau in place of Geragos
10: Passport issued in 1993
11: Drivers license
12: AEG contract signature "Michael Jackson"
13: AEG contract signature "The Michael Jackson Company LLC, Name: Michael Jackson"
14: Contract mayor city of Gary concerning The Michael J Jackson Performing Arts Center
After comparing these signatures, of which some differ significantly from others, the question rises:
WHO SIGNED WHICH DOCUMENT/LETTER, AND WITH WHICH INTENTIONS?
Food for thought...
good job Mo! <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
here is another one..
and: Epperson offers a few authentication tips:
1. Steer clear of signatures that look like they’re signed slowly and carefully, that don’t flow. Jackson signed his whole life, and signed quickly. And they shouldn’t be shaky.
2. Jackson held the pen near the cap so he didn’t get ink on his hands. That means he couldn’t “dig in.” Look for lighter strokes on the tall letters, where the pen started to rise from the paper.
3. When forgers attempt to copy the “bumps” that make up the smaller letters in Jackson’s name, they’re often too exact, like they’re drawn, not signed. The real signature has higher and lower peaks, and irregular spacing
and
Jackson was always a generous signer and probably signed well over 100,000 autographs over his career, but in the last months of his life he took it to a new level. “He was signing like a madman in L.A. and Las Vegas since October,” Epperson said. “If you caught him leaving tour rehearsals at Staples Center you could hand him 50 things and he’d sign them all.”
A professional collector reported, “It was the best kept secret among the pros. They really exploited the guy. Some got hundreds of items signed. They’re selling them now for $1,000-$2,000 each.
Okay, my thought on doubles is that i will never be 100% convinced as i am rarely 100% convinced of ANYTHING. But since this is moving fast now i feel the need to post. As a watcher for a long time, tons and tons of pictures have been posted, comparisons made, ears checked and checked again, morphing videos posted etc etc People have argued and laughed and been shocked and hurt, so.. what does that leave us with? Questions. Lots of questions. Lets say for example that the people reading this post are the ones who need no more pictures of ears to believe that there are multiple doubles- then shall we address the following questions?
When did doubles start getting used?
When was the last 'era' of pictures that all seemed to be MJ?
Was there ever a 'real' MJ? or just a collection of doubles?
Was there an 'original' MJ? and when was the last time we saw him?
(sorry for this one) Might the 'real' guy have died a long time ago? could it be possible they replaced him with a double to keep the money coming?
Where does this leave the death investigation? since we're not really sure who the 'real' MJ is and even if he existed at all? What if Michael Jackson was just an idea, using a collection of people all changed surgically to achieve a look of the same person? And if that is true and we find out about this then the IDEA has DIED.. therefore this is not a hoax death at all.
If there was an original MJ, for what reasons did he start using doubles? Was it his choice?
Who were these 'doubles' did they have lives before this? or were they bred for purpose?
all ideas to ponder on our quest for truth. Please feel free to add your own questions about this, i am sure i have just touched the surface on these things.
I apologise if any of the above have already been discussed in previous threads/posts.
Okay, my thought on doubles is that i will never be 100% convinced as i am rarely 100% convinced of ANYTHING. But since this is moving fast now i feel the need to post. As a watcher for a long time, tons and tons of pictures have been posted, comparisons made, ears checked and checked again, morphing videos posted etc etc People have argued and laughed and been shocked and hurt, so.. what does that leave us with? Questions. Lots of questions. Lets say for example that the people reading this post are the ones who need no more pictures of ears to believe that there are multiple doubles- then shall we address the following questions?
When did doubles start getting used?
When was the last 'era' of pictures that all seemed to be MJ?
Was there ever a 'real' MJ? or just a collection of doubles?
Was there an 'original' MJ? and when was the last time we saw him?
(sorry for this one) Might the 'real' guy have died a long time ago? could it be possible they replaced him with a double to keep the money coming?
Where does this leave the death investigation? since we're not really sure who the 'real' MJ is and even if he existed at all? What if Michael Jackson was just an idea, using a collection of people all changed surgically to achieve a look of the same person? And if that is true and we find out about this then the IDEA has DIED.. therefore this is not a hoax death at all.
If there was an original MJ, for what reasons did he start using doubles? Was it his choice?
Who were these 'doubles' did they have lives before this? or were they bred for purpose?
all ideas to ponder on our quest for truth. Please feel free to add your own questions about this, i am sure i have just touched the surface on these things.
I apologise if any of the above have already been discussed in previous threads/posts.
Well, it's good to think outside the box into any possibility and be optimistic. especially with this Death Hoax Investigation you have to be.
Okay, my thought on doubles is that i will never be 100% convinced as i am rarely 100% convinced of ANYTHING. But since this is moving fast now i feel the need to post. As a watcher for a long time, tons and tons of pictures have been posted, comparisons made, ears checked and checked again, morphing videos posted etc etc People have argued and laughed and been shocked and hurt, so.. what does that leave us with? Questions. Lots of questions. Lets say for example that the people reading this post are the ones who need no more pictures of ears to believe that there are multiple doubles- then shall we address the following questions?
When did doubles start getting used?
When was the last 'era' of pictures that all seemed to be MJ?
Was there ever a 'real' MJ? or just a collection of doubles?
Was there an 'original' MJ? and when was the last time we saw him?
(sorry for this one) Might the 'real' guy have died a long time ago? could it be possible they replaced him with a double to keep the money coming?
Where does this leave the death investigation? since we're not really sure who the 'real' MJ is and even if he existed at all? What if Michael Jackson was just an idea, using a collection of people all changed surgically to achieve a look of the same person? And if that is true and we find out about this then the IDEA has DIED.. therefore this is not a hoax death at all.
If there was an original MJ, for what reasons did he start using doubles? Was it his choice?
Who were these 'doubles' did they have lives before this? or were they bred for purpose?
all ideas to ponder on our quest for truth. Please feel free to add your own questions about this, i am sure i have just touched the surface on these things.
I apologise if any of the above have already been discussed in previous threads/posts.
Well, it's good to think outside the box into any possibility and be optimistic. especially with this Death Hoax Investigation you have to be.
Yes.. everything is possible. I agree. What has optimism got to do with it? This is an investigation right? We have to remain impartial. What good does hoping for the best do? The worse already happened a long time ago, June 25th 2009? For most Michael Jackson 'fans' (sorry using the F word) that was Armageddon, we're now waiting for the fall out to clear. Are we trying to find some hope here? or the TRUTH? <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Okay, my thought on doubles is that i will never be 100% convinced as i am rarely 100% convinced of ANYTHING. But since this is moving fast now i feel the need to post. As a watcher for a long time, tons and tons of pictures have been posted, comparisons made, ears checked and checked again, morphing videos posted etc etc People have argued and laughed and been shocked and hurt, so.. what does that leave us with? Questions. Lots of questions. Lets say for example that the people reading this post are the ones who need no more pictures of ears to believe that there are multiple doubles- then shall we address the following questions?
When did doubles start getting used?
When was the last 'era' of pictures that all seemed to be MJ?
Was there ever a 'real' MJ? or just a collection of doubles?
Was there an 'original' MJ? and when was the last time we saw him?
(sorry for this one) Might the 'real' guy have died a long time ago? could it be possible they replaced him with a double to keep the money coming?
Where does this leave the death investigation? since we're not really sure who the 'real' MJ is and even if he existed at all? What if Michael Jackson was just an idea, using a collection of people all changed surgically to achieve a look of the same person? And if that is true and we find out about this then the IDEA has DIED.. therefore this is not a hoax death at all.
If there was an original MJ, for what reasons did he start using doubles? Was it his choice?
Who were these 'doubles' did they have lives before this? or were they bred for purpose?
all ideas to ponder on our quest for truth. Please feel free to add your own questions about this, i am sure i have just touched the surface on these things.
I apologise if any of the above have already been discussed in previous threads/posts.
Well, it's good to think outside the box into any possibility and be optimistic. especially with this Death Hoax Investigation you have to be.
Yes.. everything is possible. I agree. What has optimism got to do with it? This is an investigation right? We have to remain impartial. What good does hoping for the best do? The worse already happened a long time ago, June 25th 2009? For most Michael Jackson 'fans' (sorry using the F word) that was Armageddon, we're now waiting for the fall out to clear. Are we trying to find some hope here? or the TRUTH? <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Well as bad as this may sound...Im now hoping for the TRUTH. If MJ is alive (and he is)then I will be ecstatic of course, but I would like to know the TRUTH on why he did it. If he is dead, then I am prepared to deal with that, but I would like to know the TRUTH into what really happened...
The White Rabbit, I also do some of the questions, I think his is a real MJ, when was the last time we saw him?, I definitely do not know.
That the real MJ died and is being replaced by a double, this would be a case where the family would be involved.
MJ and I think maybe it is true there is a lot of people changed surgically, but I think this issue is that the so decided
The Hoax death investigation should continue, not to forget the many strange things have been discovered in this forum and others, and it is because I refused the option of MJ may have died, is that it is easier show that this live show otherwise. When you enter this forum has been with the intention of knowing the truth, one thing that all humans have insurance, and that is death. <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->
I realize that a lot of time and effort has been put in to the idea of doubles or a doppleganger but I honestly and firmly believe that it is all Michael. I did an experiment and took pictures of myself and in each picture I look very different. These pictures where taken indoors, outdoors, in the sun, in the shade etc. I did nothing unusual at all. Depending on the light, how I held myself, the angle at which the camera was held etc. I do look different. In some pictures I almost look like a different person yet these pictures where only taken seconds and minutes apart. I had a friend look at them, without telling them why, and their comment was "WOW! You sure look different in each pic ...lol". So yes, it is possible for Michael to appear "different" in each and every picture ever taken of him.
Jackson was always a generous signer and probably signed well over 100,000 autographs over his career, but in the last months of his life he took it to a new level. “He was signing like a madman in L.A. and Las Vegas since October,” Epperson said. “If you caught him leaving tour rehearsals at Staples Center you could hand him 50 things and he’d sign them all.”
A professional collector reported, “It was the best kept secret among the pros. They really exploited the guy. Some got hundreds of items signed. They’re selling them now for $1,000-$2,000 each.
I think that this is significant that he wanted lots of copies of his signature circulating out there. Perhaps so his signature could be compared to that FAKE will that is in probate court and the estate of a living dead man being represented by a FIRED and corrupt lawyer.
As far as doubles go, I don't think Michael used them beyond stunt work, illusions/distractions and decoys.
I do think there is something going on with the concept of DUALITY and it has become confused with the idea of doubles having a greater role than intended.
I am currently researching this:
Dualism is the doctrine that the world (or reality) consists of two basic, opposed, and irreducible principles that account for all that exists. It has played an important role in the history of thought and of religion. http://www.cyberspacei.com/jesusi/inlight/religion/belief/dualism.htm
Dualism Dualism denotes a state of two parts. The word's origin is the Latin duo, "two" . The term 'dualism' was originally coined to denote co-eternal binary opposition, a meaning that is preserved in metaphysical and philosophical duality discourse but has been diluted in general or common usages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism
Anyways, that is my position on this and I will continue researching this philosophy but I thought I would share as it seems relevant to me with all the "Two's" of everything and maybe we are looking in the wrong place concerning this.
I've been reading and reading carefully the past days all the posts concerning "The Double Theory'' , ''Michael Jackson and Doppelganger'' and ALL stuff related. I respect all the contradicting theories and opinions expressed even though some of them confused me...I feel sorry for the fans who find it difficult to accept the fact that Michael indeed used doubles. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> I understand fully how you feel but as it has already been mentioned and as the name of the site itself reveales what we all mean to do here is INVESTIGATE so theories are part of the investigation. To me the ''Double Theory'' is not just a ''theory'' it's reality cause Michael has been using doubles for years and years. I believe that he did not do it aiming to hurt the feelings of his fans or to deceive them; he had to do it on many occassions cause if he chose not to he would be in danger.. <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> so instead of judging someone who cannot speak for himself right now please try to understand ''WHY'' he did all these.
Proceeding, I would like to state my opinion. I do believe that Michael undoubtedly used, uses and will keep using doubles probably to avoid putting himself in danger. What confuses me the most is the ''Joe- Joseph'' thing. I have no idea what is going on in here. I appreciate the hard work of the admins to put the ''Twin Theory'' together, it's just doesn't seem possible to me for a number of reasons:
[- Since the group '' The Jackson 5'' immerged, Michael was too young when he joined his brothers.. noone could be sure back then whether the band would have a success or not so if Michael had a twin brother I don't see why the family would have to hide him back then.
- With paparazzi hunting the Jackson family for years at least we would have a shot of the 10th member of the family...I mean shamone....where has this human been hiding all these years?? (Originally the kids of the Jackson family were 9, including Marlon's twin who died at birth. Michael was born after Marlon. Michael was the 7th child. I'm sure most of you know this facts.)
- Back in 1958 when Michael and his supposed twin were born there was no reason for the twin to be kept a secret.. I mean noone knew the future of baby Michael and i'm sure if there was a twin there would be people to confirm that (relatives, neighbours, a school teacher, just somebody...)
- At least it would be a matter of dispute all these years. It could even surface as a rumour that Michael has a twin brother in hiding used as a double. How many rumours have we all heard surrounding Michael... I don't know if any of you is aware of such a rumour but i am not. If you do please come forward.
- Finally, what kind of a mother would agree one of her kids to be in hiding, in other words to have no life, just to serve his famous brother? It's sooo unfair and heartless...
(Feel free to add your own ideas to this list...) <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> ]
For all the above reasons I'm sceptical concerning the ''Twin Theory''. But I appreciate the hard work of the admins to put the theory together and I'm willing to discuss the matter.
Apart from the twin theory, I mentioned above that the ''Joe-Joseph'' thing is really confusing. (I wanna make it clear that I do respect ALL the opinions.)
IMHO Michael is behind everything..I think that ''Joe'' is used as the Michael Jackson persona that was carefully created all these years -the megastar- and sadly the singer who was accused of child molestation and proved to be INNOCENT..
''Joseph'' is used as the child, the brother, the father, the friend (Michael's name by birth, the will, the birth certificates of his children).
NOTE that both names ''Joe&Joseph'' have been used to his driving licenses... <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->
Last but not least, I would like to express my opinion concerning the morhing pictures in an attempt to figure out who the real deal is....That's A COOL IDEA <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> Personally I'm sceptical over who the real Michael is on Bashit documentary. I think that in this documentary we see at least 2 Mikes.http://www.myspace.com/realmichaeljackson
I've been to this account posted by the member ''Grace''.
It looks tottaly fake to me and the story seems to be made up. My post is already long so i'll cut my opinion short just by saying that i agree with Mo's opinion concerning this.
ABOUT THE PROFILE PHOTO: doesn't it look photoshopped??
I apologise for the lenght of my post. Originally i was planning to post it on ''The real deal...at least that's what we think'' thread but since it is locked I decided to post it here.
THANK YOU ALL 4 READING <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Why was this said if - what we think to know now - was known then by the family since a long time ?
Have we seen any DC for Brandon?
Did we ever check what happened to Brandon?
If he did not die, was he raised with the clan?
There are still too many questions to be answered.
Alabama is where Brandon is said to have been buried.
Katherine said Alabama is home.
Anybody out there to check it for us?
Thank you for your fantastic and thoughtful posts. You have analyzed the twin and double theories very well, I think. I have always thought that the statement concerning Brandon was a hint, although I was told it was insignificant. I don't think so. There were two very important clues given by Marlon during his speech: the first one is concerning the disguises, the second one about the twin. Now why would Marlon have mentioned these two things at the end of the Memorial? These were meant to provide clues to fans or believers. And a Memorial? What was the purpose of that?
I am not excluding anything, it's way too early for that as there are still too many unanswered questions. Keep thinking outside the box while examining everything.
I wonder if we'll ever get to the bottom of all this, as there might be very good reasons to keep certain things in the closet.
[- Since the group '' The Jackson 5'' immerged, Michael was too young when he joined his brothers.. noone could be sure back then whether the band would have a success or not so if Michael had a twin brother I don't see why the family would have to hide him back then.
- With paparazzi hunting the Jackson family for years at least we would have a shot of the 10th member of the family...I mean shamone....where has this human been hiding all these years?? (Originally the kids of the Jackson family were 9, including Marlon's twin who died at birth. Michael was born after Marlon. Michael was the 7th child. I'm sure most of you know this facts.)
- Back in 1958 when Michael and his supposed twin were born there was no reason for the twin to be kept a secret.. I mean noone knew the future of baby Michael and i'm sure if there was a twin there would be people to confirm that (relatives, neighbours, a school teacher, just somebody...)
- At least it would be a matter of dispute all these years. It could even surface as a rumour that Michael has a twin brother in hiding used as a double. How many rumours have we all heard surrounding Michael... I don't know if any of you is aware of such a rumour but i am not. If you do please come forward.
- Finally, what kind of a mother would agree one of her kids to be in hiding, in other words to have no life, just to serve his famous brother? It's sooo unfair and heartless...
Agree 100%
When the kids were born, they (Joe and Katherine) could never know that they became famous in the future.
And besides that, I can't imagine that someone would hide their child...
Oh you would wonder how many children are being hidden or diprived from life by their families on this planet. Please don't forget that the Jackson kids - like millions still today - had to make the money for the family. It was child labour and selling the kids if we want to be honest. It happens everywhere each second.
If you are not a strong one, don't read further pls. as truth is very hurtful some times.
I don't want to go for all injustice on earth. Some shocking truths however are:
- in Africa disabled children are hidden from public throughout their lifetime (often disabled due to genetic defects resulting from inzest and too close marriages within the families). It is very difficult to break up the taboos surrounding inzest and genetic defects. The child is seen as a stroke of negative fate by God, not a result of human misbehaviour. The child is an impersonated shame and God's punishment to the family.
- in Asia female babies are being killed right after birth or aborted on purpose because female gender means that the family has to pay for the marriage. Many cannot afford this so they kill the children. Girls are a shame, they are often sold to city prostitution at age of 8 or 10 to at least bring some money home (read about Bangkok and related).
- in Africa, girls are still facing the threat of concision (removal of clitoris and sewing of vagina). This happens even in Europe, executed by corrupt physicians serving the immigrated families. Btw it is in many cases that the concised mothers insist their girls should undergo this torture.
- we are facing the sexual abuse cases all over the industrialized and "socially devellopped" countries. It seems that violence against women and children does not know any borders anymore. There have been cases where girls have been imprisoned as slaves to their father half of their lives (with the knowledge of their mothers) in Europe and in the U.S., no difference. There have been many cases where churches and priests were involved in sexual and physical abuse.
If it is possible that such peaks of injustice icebergs executed on children are coming to daylight everywhere now, if we are honestly discussing child abuse of all kind (remember Souza's and Mo's blogs) then it is also potentially in the scope that there was a child hidden for whatever reason and purpose in the Jackson clan. Remember all their other secrets.
I am not saying that it was the case. I am saying it is not impossible.
There is still a long way to go and a lot of tasks out there for everyone to do some good and help the non- privileged in our neighbourhood.
Every family has secrets. Why would the Jacksons be any different? Their fame does not make them above any other family or immune from what other families face. The Jacksons are in the public eye yet they still maintain private lives hidden from the public. Therefore individual secrets and those of the family as a collective unit do exist.
Some family secrets are good and there are also some not-so-good ones. Some family secrets are revealed by choice. Usually secrets are openly revealed if a family thinks that the time is right and that outsiders need to know those secrets for any reason. Sometimes secrets are taken to the grave and never revealed. Just like all other families, the Jacksons have demonstrated that they can keep secrets within their family.
Ask yourselves a question. Who outside of your family knows all of your family secrets?
Ask yourselves a question. Who outside of your family knows all of your family secrets?
Even within a family there are secrets. Just a few weeks ago my sister revealed a story of which I didn't know anything until the day she decided it was time for me to know what had happened... I'm sure there are things that took place in both my sisters lives of which I don't know anything, or just know part of. Same goes for certain events which took place in my life, of which I never told my sisters or just told just one of them. We ALL have secrets.
I believe for sure that every family has their own secrets, unfortunatly I have experienced it too...
But I can't imagine that they (Joe and Katherine) got a twin and hide one half. They didn't know that their children became famous and succesfull. And besides that, what other reason would there be for hiding the child? It doesn't make sense to me....
Let's try an experiement. It isn't designed to encourage anyone to change their mind. It may simply shed light on how sometimes hard to understand and inexplainable things manage to occur in the everyday lives of families .
List 10 of the deepest and darkest secrets that you and/or family members have on a piece of paper. These should be the most heavily guarded secrets that you have not shared with anyone...not even your best friend. Now review the list and place a check mark next to the ones that would make sense to random outsiders or strangers. How many of those secrets did not receive a check mark?
The secrets of one family may cause another family to yawn and roll their eyes. Some family secrets may cause another family to run screaming in the streets. It's a judgement call as far as determining what needs to be revealed versus what must remain hidden. In addition, timing is everything. This is especially true for celebrities who work hard to maintain a certain type of public image. Did Janet reveal her marriage right away? No. Did Jermaine and Randy reveal right away that they fathered children with the same woman? No. Did the Jacksons reveal right away that Marlon had a twin? No. Did Michael Jackson reveal that he was dating and about to marry? No. Did the public learn right away that Joseph had a child out of wedlock? No.
I am reminded about a family secret that shocked the entertainment industry. Mackenzie Phillips revealed a horrifying family secret last year about her incestuous relationship with her own father, John Phillips. Fans of Mackenzie's and those of her father were mortified to learn about John's abuse and manipulation toward her. As I watch re-runs of One Day At A Time or listen to old Mama's and the Papa's records, you could never have convinced me in a million years back then that the talented actress and the musically gifted father would have been involved in anything other than a traditional father and daughter relationship. To have looked into a crystal ball and learned that John Phillips would become sick and sinister toward his own daughter would have made no sense to me or any other fans back then. Technically it still makes no sense but it did take place. Sadly ...it was a deep, dark and heavily guarded family secret for decades.
imo i dont think that the family was hiding the twin because they shared the spotlight together just like mary kate and ashley olsen for years the world thought that there was only one olsen girl until they decided to share with the world that there were actually two (twins).
Comments
Sony used ECas in Who Is It because of Michael's schedules. They show Ecas in the car where he covers his face and also blurred when he is at the airport. Michael was upset about that and so the video was banned in the US.
IMO, I find E-Cass is the one with the closest eyes to MJ.
From what I see on pictures ECas is also a very attractive man without the make-over.
But beyond that: it´s probably not hard to find a good make-up artist in Hollywood who´s able to lend a hand, some shades and a wig to style even someone who only has a vague resemblance for a picture or a video scene.
I think to find someone who´s able to act throughout a whole concert in front of a live-audience -incl. dancing, talking, gestures, etc - would be a more challenging project.
So if there has been someone who met those particular requirements and took care of business by jumping in now and then: Respect! <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
here is another one..
and: Epperson offers a few authentication tips:
1. Steer clear of signatures that look like they’re signed slowly and carefully, that don’t flow. Jackson signed his whole life, and signed quickly. And they shouldn’t be shaky.
2. Jackson held the pen near the cap so he didn’t get ink on his hands. That means he couldn’t “dig in.” Look for lighter strokes on the tall letters, where the pen started to rise from the paper.
3. When forgers attempt to copy the “bumps” that make up the smaller letters in Jackson’s name, they’re often too exact, like they’re drawn, not signed. The real signature has higher and lower peaks, and irregular spacing
and http://autographmagazine.com/2010/01/michael-jackson-remembered-in-autographs/
When did doubles start getting used?
When was the last 'era' of pictures that all seemed to be MJ?
Was there ever a 'real' MJ? or just a collection of doubles?
Was there an 'original' MJ? and when was the last time we saw him?
(sorry for this one) Might the 'real' guy have died a long time ago? could it be possible they replaced him with a double to keep the money coming?
Where does this leave the death investigation? since we're not really sure who the 'real' MJ is and even if he existed at all? What if Michael Jackson was just an idea, using a collection of people all changed surgically to achieve a look of the same person? And if that is true and we find out about this then the IDEA has DIED.. therefore this is not a hoax death at all.
If there was an original MJ, for what reasons did he start using doubles? Was it his choice?
Who were these 'doubles' did they have lives before this? or were they bred for purpose?
all ideas to ponder on our quest for truth. Please feel free to add your own questions about this, i am sure i have just touched the surface on these things.
I apologise if any of the above have already been discussed in previous threads/posts.
Yes.. everything is possible. I agree. What has optimism got to do with it? This is an investigation right? We have to remain impartial. What good does hoping for the best do? The worse already happened a long time ago, June 25th 2009? For most Michael Jackson 'fans' (sorry using the F word) that was Armageddon, we're now waiting for the fall out to clear. Are we trying to find some hope here? or the TRUTH? <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Well as bad as this may sound...Im now hoping for the TRUTH. If MJ is alive (and he is)then I will be ecstatic of course, but I would like to know the TRUTH on why he did it. If he is dead, then I am prepared to deal with that, but I would like to know the TRUTH into what really happened...
That the real MJ died and is being replaced by a double, this would be a case where the family would be involved.
MJ and I think maybe it is true there is a lot of people changed surgically, but I think this issue is that the so decided
The Hoax death investigation should continue, not to forget the many strange things have been discovered in this forum and others, and it is because I refused the option of MJ may have died, is that it is easier show that this live show otherwise. When you enter this forum has been with the intention of knowing the truth, one thing that all humans have insurance, and that is death. <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->
I think that this is significant that he wanted lots of copies of his signature circulating out there. Perhaps so his signature could be compared to that FAKE will that is in probate court and the estate of a living dead man being represented by a FIRED and corrupt lawyer.
As far as doubles go, I don't think Michael used them beyond stunt work, illusions/distractions and decoys.
I do think there is something going on with the concept of DUALITY and it has become confused with the idea of doubles having a greater role than intended.
I am currently researching this:
Dualism is the doctrine that the world (or reality) consists of two basic, opposed, and irreducible principles that account for all that exists. It has played an important role in the history of thought and of religion.
http://www.cyberspacei.com/jesusi/inlight/religion/belief/dualism.htm
Dualism
Dualism denotes a state of two parts. The word's origin is the Latin duo, "two" . The term 'dualism' was originally coined to denote co-eternal binary opposition, a meaning that is preserved in metaphysical and philosophical duality discourse but has been diluted in general or common usages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism
Anyways, that is my position on this and I will continue researching this philosophy but I thought I would share as it seems relevant to me with all the "Two's" of everything and maybe we are looking in the wrong place concerning this.
Proceeding, I would like to state my opinion. I do believe that Michael undoubtedly used, uses and will keep using doubles probably to avoid putting himself in danger. What confuses me the most is the ''Joe- Joseph'' thing. I have no idea what is going on in here. I appreciate the hard work of the admins to put the ''Twin Theory'' together, it's just doesn't seem possible to me for a number of reasons:
[- Since the group '' The Jackson 5'' immerged, Michael was too young when he joined his brothers.. noone could be sure back then whether the band would have a success or not so if Michael had a twin brother I don't see why the family would have to hide him back then.
- With paparazzi hunting the Jackson family for years at least we would have a shot of the 10th member of the family...I mean shamone....where has this human been hiding all these years?? (Originally the kids of the Jackson family were 9, including Marlon's twin who died at birth. Michael was born after Marlon. Michael was the 7th child. I'm sure most of you know this facts.)
- Back in 1958 when Michael and his supposed twin were born there was no reason for the twin to be kept a secret.. I mean noone knew the future of baby Michael and i'm sure if there was a twin there would be people to confirm that (relatives, neighbours, a school teacher, just somebody...)
- At least it would be a matter of dispute all these years. It could even surface as a rumour that Michael has a twin brother in hiding used as a double. How many rumours have we all heard surrounding Michael... I don't know if any of you is aware of such a rumour but i am not. If you do please come forward.
- Finally, what kind of a mother would agree one of her kids to be in hiding, in other words to have no life, just to serve his famous brother? It's sooo unfair and heartless...
(Feel free to add your own ideas to this list...) <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> ]
For all the above reasons I'm sceptical concerning the ''Twin Theory''. But I appreciate the hard work of the admins to put the theory together and I'm willing to discuss the matter.
Apart from the twin theory, I mentioned above that the ''Joe-Joseph'' thing is really confusing. (I wanna make it clear that I do respect ALL the opinions.)
IMHO Michael is behind everything..I think that ''Joe'' is used as the Michael Jackson persona that was carefully created all these years -the megastar- and sadly the singer who was accused of child molestation and proved to be INNOCENT..
''Joseph'' is used as the child, the brother, the father, the friend (Michael's name by birth, the will, the birth certificates of his children).
NOTE that both names ''Joe&Joseph'' have been used to his driving licenses... <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: -->
Last but not least, I would like to express my opinion concerning the morhing pictures in an attempt to figure out who the real deal is....That's A COOL IDEA <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> Personally I'm sceptical over who the real Michael is on Bashit documentary. I think that in this documentary we see at least 2 Mikes.http://www.myspace.com/realmichaeljackson
I've been to this account posted by the member ''Grace''.
It looks tottaly fake to me and the story seems to be made up. My post is already long so i'll cut my opinion short just by saying that i agree with Mo's opinion concerning this.
ABOUT THE PROFILE PHOTO: doesn't it look photoshopped??
I apologise for the lenght of my post. Originally i was planning to post it on ''The real deal...at least that's what we think'' thread but since it is locked I decided to post it here.
THANK YOU ALL 4 READING <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Why was this said if - what we think to know now - was known then by the family since a long time ?
Have we seen any DC for Brandon?
Did we ever check what happened to Brandon?
If he did not die, was he raised with the clan?
There are still too many questions to be answered.
Alabama is where Brandon is said to have been buried.
Katherine said Alabama is home.
Anybody out there to check it for us?
I am not excluding anything, it's way too early for that as there are still too many unanswered questions. Keep thinking outside the box while examining everything.
I wonder if we'll ever get to the bottom of all this, as there might be very good reasons to keep certain things in the closet.
Agree 100%
When the kids were born, they (Joe and Katherine) could never know that they became famous in the future.
And besides that, I can't imagine that someone would hide their child...
If you are not a strong one, don't read further pls. as truth is very hurtful some times.
I don't want to go for all injustice on earth. Some shocking truths however are:
- in Africa disabled children are hidden from public throughout their lifetime (often disabled due to genetic defects resulting from inzest and too close marriages within the families). It is very difficult to break up the taboos surrounding inzest and genetic defects. The child is seen as a stroke of negative fate by God, not a result of human misbehaviour. The child is an impersonated shame and God's punishment to the family.
- in Asia female babies are being killed right after birth or aborted on purpose because female gender means that the family has to pay for the marriage. Many cannot afford this so they kill the children. Girls are a shame, they are often sold to city prostitution at age of 8 or 10 to at least bring some money home (read about Bangkok and related).
- in Africa, girls are still facing the threat of concision (removal of clitoris and sewing of vagina). This happens even in Europe, executed by corrupt physicians serving the immigrated families. Btw it is in many cases that the concised mothers insist their girls should undergo this torture.
- we are facing the sexual abuse cases all over the industrialized and "socially devellopped" countries. It seems that violence against women and children does not know any borders anymore. There have been cases where girls have been imprisoned as slaves to their father half of their lives (with the knowledge of their mothers) in Europe and in the U.S., no difference. There have been many cases where churches and priests were involved in sexual and physical abuse.
If it is possible that such peaks of injustice icebergs executed on children are coming to daylight everywhere now, if we are honestly discussing child abuse of all kind (remember Souza's and Mo's blogs) then it is also potentially in the scope that there was a child hidden for whatever reason and purpose in the Jackson clan. Remember all their other secrets.
I am not saying that it was the case. I am saying it is not impossible.
There is still a long way to go and a lot of tasks out there for everyone to do some good and help the non- privileged in our neighbourhood.
But I just dont think this happened in this case.
Some family secrets are good and there are also some not-so-good ones. Some family secrets are revealed by choice. Usually secrets are openly revealed if a family thinks that the time is right and that outsiders need to know those secrets for any reason. Sometimes secrets are taken to the grave and never revealed. Just like all other families, the Jacksons have demonstrated that they can keep secrets within their family.
Ask yourselves a question. Who outside of your family knows all of your family secrets?
Even within a family there are secrets. Just a few weeks ago my sister revealed a story of which I didn't know anything until the day she decided it was time for me to know what had happened... I'm sure there are things that took place in both my sisters lives of which I don't know anything, or just know part of. Same goes for certain events which took place in my life, of which I never told my sisters or just told just one of them. We ALL have secrets.
But I can't imagine that they (Joe and Katherine) got a twin and hide one half. They didn't know that their children became famous and succesfull. And besides that, what other reason would there be for hiding the child? It doesn't make sense to me....
List 10 of the deepest and darkest secrets that you and/or family members have on a piece of paper. These should be the most heavily guarded secrets that you have not shared with anyone...not even your best friend. Now review the list and place a check mark next to the ones that would make sense to random outsiders or strangers. How many of those secrets did not receive a check mark?
The secrets of one family may cause another family to yawn and roll their eyes. Some family secrets may cause another family to run screaming in the streets. It's a judgement call as far as determining what needs to be revealed versus what must remain hidden. In addition, timing is everything. This is especially true for celebrities who work hard to maintain a certain type of public image. Did Janet reveal her marriage right away? No. Did Jermaine and Randy reveal right away that they fathered children with the same woman? No. Did the Jacksons reveal right away that Marlon had a twin? No. Did Michael Jackson reveal that he was dating and about to marry? No. Did the public learn right away that Joseph had a child out of wedlock? No.
I am reminded about a family secret that shocked the entertainment industry. Mackenzie Phillips revealed a horrifying family secret last year about her incestuous relationship with her own father, John Phillips. Fans of Mackenzie's and those of her father were mortified to learn about John's abuse and manipulation toward her. As I watch re-runs of One Day At A Time or listen to old Mama's and the Papa's records, you could never have convinced me in a million years back then that the talented actress and the musically gifted father would have been involved in anything other than a traditional father and daughter relationship. To have looked into a crystal ball and learned that John Phillips would become sick and sinister toward his own daughter would have made no sense to me or any other fans back then. Technically it still makes no sense but it did take place. Sadly ...it was a deep, dark and heavily guarded family secret for decades.