<br />If paramedics and UCLA doctors are in, it doesn't really matter what or who was in the ambulance. Could have been Michael himself, a dummy or a corpse or nothing, if they are all in what does it matter, they won't tell anyway. <br /><br />But I don't believe it was MJ himself alive because I think he already left ...the big question for me is where he was on June 25th.<br /><br />Ans why only Kai from all staff testified? Why they didn't ask the housekeepers what they saw or heard that day? Wasn't this important? I guess those people are not blind or deaf.<br />
<br /><br />You are missing the important point Gina, the court is real and whatever was described/said over there, matters. Thus, it does matter whether MJ was in UCLA if doctors in hoax. Because hoax changes here from fooling people to having serious ground being temporarily absent for safety reasons.<br /><br />IF it is a hoax for literally HOAXING, then NO ONE is in hoax and corpse was used that PERFECTLY looked like Michael to fool paramedics, doctors, coroner, authorities, even maybe some bodyguards and Murray.....
No, I was just trying to say that if we consider them all in the hoax - the paramedics and UCLA docs - it could have been anything in the ambulance, from MJ to nothing.<br /><br />I would still like to know where he was that day. Stalker fans saw him going into the house after midnight, nobody saw him leaving the house though, maybe he just vanished into thin air.<br /><br />
<br />No, I was just trying to say that if we consider them all in the hoax - the paramedics and UCLA docs - it could have been anything in the ambulance, from MJ to nothing.<br /><br />I would still like to know where he was that day. Stalker fans saw him going into the house after midnight, nobody saw him leaving the house though, maybe he just vanished into thin air.<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Hi Gina. Do you remember of aircraft from the airport of Los Angeles who left in the morning?<br /><br />We should consider it, TS. <br /><br />If so, Michael was already far from LA.
<br />No, I was just trying to say that if we consider them all in the hoax - the paramedics and UCLA docs - it could have been anything in the ambulance, from MJ to nothing.<br /><br />I would still like to know where he was that day. Stalker fans saw him going into the house after midnight, nobody saw him leaving the house though, maybe he just vanished into thin air.<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Hi Gina. Do you remember of aircraft from the airport of Los Angeles who left in the morning?<br /><br />We should consider it, TS. <br /><br />If so, Michael was already far from LA.<br />
<br /><br />Of course I remember. And Jermaine said "airport" instead of hospital.
<br />I still think that "nothing" in the ambulance or UCLA would be very, very risky. When the ambulance left Carolwood, the world was watching the events. <br />
<br />No, I was just trying to say that if we consider them all in the hoax - the paramedics and UCLA docs - it could have been anything in the ambulance, from MJ to nothing.<br /><br />I would still like to know where he was that day. Stalker fans saw him going into the house after midnight, nobody saw him leaving the house though, maybe he just vanished into thin air.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Once again, IF DOCTORS, PARM. CORONER are IN hoax, it started from the moment Michael was revived in hospital. Then hoax changes here from play game to serious grounds of temporarily absence for safety reasons. Therefore, real Michael should have been in UCLA. <br />Or, they are not in hoax and corpse perfectly resembling MJ was used to fool all of them. <br /><br /><br />
Has it been established that Michael was in fact on the premises of Carolwood that night?<br /><br /><br />Stories from the faithful "gatekeeper" fans state that Michael had a ritual of stopping at the gates, and rolling down the window to greet the fans. Also at night, his "bedroom" window light would go off at a specified time each night, and on 6/24 it stayed on all night.<br /><br />Reports have said that he did not do his usual routine of greeting the fans going from the Carolwood property to Staples Center nor upon returning to the Carolwood property that night 6/24.<br /><br />So was he really even in the car that night upon return? and why the change in habit?<br /><br />It was also expressed that there was increased security outside the gates that night (Also unusual)<br /><br />I know there was a security tape played during the trial (I missed that day), but did they actually clearly show Michael on the property that night?<br /><br />While I doubt Michael would leave his kids alone in the house...it does make me wonder who or what was brought in that night.
<br />No, I was just trying to say that if we consider them all in the hoax - the paramedics and UCLA docs - it could have been anything in the ambulance, from MJ to nothing.<br /><br />I would still like to know where he was that day. Stalker fans saw him going into the house after midnight, nobody saw him leaving the house though, maybe he just vanished into thin air.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Once again, IF DOCTORS, PARM. CORONER are IN hoax, it started from the moment Michael was revived in hospital. Then hoax changes here from play game to serious grounds of temporarily absence for safety reasons. Therefore, real Michael should have been in UCLA. <br />Or, they are not in hoax and corpse perfectly resembling MJ was used to fool all of them. <br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />OK but I still consider the possibility that numbers do have a meaning because TMZ posted that article about Michael and nb. 7 out of the blue. Did they just figure it out by themselves or they were told about it? Anyway...that makes me still consider the numbers are important, so it had to be planned, but I'm not sure of anything.<br />
for me it would make sense is that in ambulance at Carolwood, picking up a dummy size, weight and appearance as MJ, and take him to UCLA.<br /><br />Due to the photo of the ambulance was made prior to 25J, Ben Evenstad only needed to "simulate" that he took the picture shown and play a role in the eyes of the people, and begin with the public spectacle.<br /><br />This really does explain why it carried something (the dummy) from UCLA to the CORONER, and this also would explain the photos that were shown at trial, at UCLA and the autopsy, in which the alleged MJ's body had no belly button! (like a dummy) <br />
snoopy are you sure, because I recall they said the stalker fans were there, like usual, and they saw MJ arriving home after midnight. We should see the testimony of Fahim and Amir again.
Ok so I watched and Faheem says he was asked to stop the car for Michael to talk to the fans there, he says Michael spoke to his fans for maybe 60 seconds. So the fans must have saw him arriving to the house.
<br />Ok so I watched and Faheem says he was asked to stop the car for Michael to talk to the fans there, he says Michael spoke to his fans for maybe 60 seconds.<br />
<br /><br />Ah, okay, Thank you Gina...(I missed both testimonies---the surveillance video and Faheem's, I need to watch those). The accounts I had heard of came mostly from LaToya's book (again more inconsistancies).<br /><br />I wouldn't imagine Michael would leave his kids alone in the house and not return to Carolwood after the Staples center rehearsal. So it makes me wonder about why some fans are saying "one thing" and others saying something else as far as "seeing" Michael that night.<br /><br /><br /><br />I just thought maybe it would help figure out what left out of the house the next day.<br />
I am still thinking of the 2 UCLA doctors who testified. Wouldn't this concept apply to them as well?<br /><br />
[size=12pt]Last but not least, here is a real good statement from bec, which she posted in my recent thread about the timing of the 911 call (12:20 or 12:21?). Keep this concept in mind, because it applies to far more than just the 911 call. “One good reason I can think of doing an actual call that day (not 911, just a call) is for realism later. It’s very easy to keep up appearances if what you are talking about actually happened. Alvarez’s testimony and statements, Murray’s statements on this documentary, they can be describing an actual staged scene as opposed to just a figment of imagination. Recalling an actual event would give their statements a sense of realism, instead of them simply reciting lines.”[/size]
<br /><br />So I am thinking that they may have staged a scene, and with a "body", rather than with just nothing or them just reciting lines during the trial.<br /><br />Anyway I can't wait for TS' next post! bounce/
Ok .. TS has not completely debunked the theory of double, but considering that this theory does not exist ...<br /><br />So for me, the only option that makes sense is a corpse of a double. Thus, almost no one lied or was involved, only the family of Michael, Murray, two bodyguards and a few people. All others. paramedics, doctors' UCLA, coroner, really served the double dead and confused with Michael.<br /><br />This theory is very mad and morbid. As Michael could explain it? It would be a big problem, would not it? pale/<br /><br />But still, is the theory that makes sense. Michael helped a double, terminally ill. Murray hired (if this is a doctor) to care for him and Michael offered his house for him to spend his last days ... Aff!<br /><br />But I can not believe that Michael lived in that house on Carolwood! /pull hair/<br />
<br />snoopy are you sure, because I recall they said the stalker fans were there, like usual, and they saw MJ arriving home after midnight. <br />
<br /><br />Did they though. Or did all they see were the cars returning to the residence, as expected, and assumed that he was in one of them.<br />tinted windows. They drove right in and MJ failed to have the car stop to say hi to the fans or whatever, as expected. according to the fans. Do i have that right or not? cant remember now.<br />They sure wern't expecting him NOT to return that night, coz they knew his routine. If the cars just drove in, they would have assumed he was in one, but doesn't mean he actually was.<br />Same goes for there not being many people outside his house the following morning.. could have been that the suv or whatever he usually travelled in left the house and went off somewhere, luring the stalker fans away. Or could be that he diliberately made his routine so that he would leave for rehearsals few hours after the time that this 'death scenario' would take place. So the stalker fans would know that he always would leave at say, 2 o'clock and wouldn't need to be hanging around outside a few hours previous to that. <br />If they had been there, there would have been hysteria. And that would have buggered up the whole scenario. The security would have had to have their attention on them instead of the task at hand.<br /><br />If this was a real situation, in reality, that ambulance should have sped out those gates all the way to UCLA. But it didn't. The slowly backing out allowed the illusion of the 'money shot'.. but i believe it also allowed time for the security accompanying the ambulance to get in the cars ready to follow right behind. Ben and co too. If the ambulance had sped off, the gap between them would have been big allowing any other random vehicles to get in between. So when they arrive at UCLA the security are right there at the time the unloading takes place.<br />In reality, the ambulance should have sped away from them, and unloaded at UCLA immediately with no regard to whether or not security were there.<br />So security did need to be there to sheild/keep any random people away from the stretcher. So my opinon at this time would be it was a dummy. To have nothing on the stretcher seems far too risky, because only a slight gap inbetween security surrounding the stretcher would have shown that, and they were only gonna get one shot at this.
<br />Ok .. TS has not completely debunked the theory of double, but considering that this theory does not exist ...<br /><br />So for me, the only option that makes sense is a corpse of a double. Thus, almost no one lied or was involved, only the family of Michael, Murray, two bodyguards and a few people. All others. paramedics, doctors' UCLA, coroner, really served the double dead and confused with Michael.<br /><br />This theory is very mad and morbid. As Michael could explain it? It would be a big problem, would not it? pale/<br /><br />But still, is the theory that makes sense. Michael helped a double, terminally ill. Murray hired (if this is a doctor) to care for him and Michael offered his house for him to spend his last days ... Aff!<br /><br />But I can not believe that Michael lived in that house on Carolwood! /pull hair/<br /><br />
<br /><br />When/How did the double get on the Carolwood property? Or was it already at UCLA? Why?
<br />snoopy are you sure, because I recall they said the stalker fans were there, like usual, and they saw MJ arriving home after midnight. <br />
<br /><br />Did they though. Or did all they see were the cars returning to the residence, as expected, and assumed that he was in one of them.<br />tinted windows. They drove right in and MJ failed to have the car stop to say hi to the fans or whatever, as expected. according to the fans. Do i have that right or not? cant remember now.<br /><br />
<br />Faheem testifies that MJ asked him to stop the car and that MJ spoke to the fans for a minute.<br />Well now I don't know who's lying - Faheem or the fans who say MJ didn't stop??
Maybe the car didn't stop for the fans, because Michael was not in it?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />Maybe the car didn't stop for the fans, because Michael was not in it?<br /><br />
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<br />snoopy are you sure, because I recall they said the stalker fans were there, like usual, and they saw MJ arriving home after midnight. <br />
<br /><br />Did they though. Or did all they see were the cars returning to the residence, as expected, and assumed that he was in one of them.<br />tinted windows. They drove right in and MJ failed to have the car stop to say hi to the fans or whatever, as expected. according to the fans. Do i have that right or not? cant remember now.<br /><br />
<br />Faheem testifies that MJ asked him to stop the car and that MJ spoke to the fans for a minute.<br />Well now I don't know who's lying - Faheem or the fans who say MJ didn't stop??<br />
<br /><br /><br />Were the same girls from the Staples center there at Carolwood that night? :? <br /><br />If Michael didn't go home who did? Was there someone with him they needed to keep secret? If he was in disguise at UCLA how did he leave Carolwood unnoticed?<br /><br />...hmmmm, time to go digging through the old threads... bangbang
<br />Maybe the car didn't stop for the fans, because Michael was not in it?<br />
<br /><br />But why Faheem says MJ asked him to stop and he actually stopped and Michael spoke to the fans for a minute? He says that starting from 1:15 first and he says it again at 1:50<br /><br />
This is the one photo that shows the stretcher entering UCLA emergency....not that clear, but might help us decide what went to UCLA that day...The body does look alot bigger than MJ's....<br />God bless<br /><br />And by the way, all of this would have been caught on security camera above the emergency doors..<br /><br />I wonder whether the FBI made UCLA hand over the video so that it could not be sold to the media !!!! Or, should we be wondering why it has not been shown by now.
Where'd that pic come from??? Who took a pic at that angle?? I'm confused by that one. It seems that is inside the hospital, and yet the others are outside, so there was another photographer??? I am really confused by this!! And who are the people beside it, and who says it's "Michael's" stretcher?? I haven't seen this before ever....
<br />Where'd that pic come from??? Who took a pic at that angle?? I'm confused by that one. It seems that is inside the hospital, and yet the others are outside, so there was another photographer??? I am really confused by this!! And who are the people beside it, and who says it's "Michael's" stretcher?? I haven't seen this before ever....<br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Screenshot of a video very short,... and to vary you cannot see much
<br />This is the one photo that shows the stretcher entering UCLA emergency....not that clear, but might help us decide what went to UCLA that day...The body does look alot bigger than MJ's....<br />God bless<br /><br />And by the way, all of this would have been caught on security camera above the emergency doors..<br /><br />I wonder whether the FBI made UCLA hand over the video so that it could not be sold to the media !!!! Or, should we be wondering why it has not been shown by now.<br />
<br /><br />Well, looks like the "nothing went to UCLA" can be thrown in the trash bin. There is clearly something/someone on the stretcher.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."