<br />So the reflection above the doors (and in the glass door) in the UCLA pictures don't bother anyone? Just me then - okay.<br />
<br /><br />Do you think you could share what you mean instead of just asking why we are not bothered with it?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I still don't know where that pic came from. It is a still from what video??? And who made the video? And who says Michael is on it?? And I thought only Ben was there or followed...anyone know more about that pic??<br />
I'm sticking with Live MJ on the stretcher. TS failed to present any reasons as to why this could not be, he just said he was going to... and then proceeded to not.<br /><br />It solves the problem of the Paramedics and the 2 UCLA docs lying and how they can act so well. They're ONLY lying about the dead part. But do they ever say dead? Genuine question, I don't remember.<br /><br />Risk is an ever present factor through out the events of 6/25/09. I do not accept that risk was a limiting factor that renders something impossible else MJ wouldn't have even attempted this hoax in the first place.<br /><br />Everything everyone says becomes the truth when Live MJ does it all himself; there's just a lot of assumptions being made and spread as truth by the media and believed by his fans... "MJ was unresponsive" DOES NOT mean MJ was dead. It also can equally mean that MJ was ignoring the doctor. "MJ wanted his milk", self explanatory. "A gentleman not breathing", at the time was holding his breath. "The most loving thing you can do is share your bed", need I say more??? Think about it.<br /><br />It's a movie with Live MJ. However, just like in TII and Smooth Criminal, there's a stunt double for a couple of scenes...Helicopter??.
<br />No, I was just trying to say that if we consider them all in the hoax - the paramedics and UCLA docs - it could have been anything in the ambulance, from MJ to nothing.<br /><br />I would still like to know where he was that day. Stalker fans saw him going into the house after midnight, nobody saw him leaving the house though, maybe he just vanished into thin air.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Once again, IF DOCTORS, PARM. CORONER are IN hoax, it started from the moment Michael was revived in hospital. Then hoax changes here from play game to serious grounds of temporarily absence for safety reasons. Therefore, real Michael should have been in UCLA. <br />Or, they are not in hoax and corpse perfectly resembling MJ was used to fool all of them. <br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />OK but I still consider the possibility that numbers do have a meaning because TMZ posted that article about Michael and nb. 7 out of the blue. Did they just figure it out by themselves or they were told about it? Anyway...that makes me still consider the numbers are important, so it had to be planned, but I'm not sure of anything.<br /><br />
<br /><br />What numbers honey? Where do you see 7? Using the correct principle of numerology, the day Michael "died" is 06/25/2009=6+25+29=60=6; Numerology of time- 12.21=1+2+2+1=6; death announcement time 2.26=2+2+6=10=1. Ambulance left Carolwood (if I am not mistaken) 12.26=1+2+2+6=11=1+1=2. This is the correct principle of numerology, adding up all numbers, not half of them.<br />I am not saying MJ did not plan or dreamed of escape, sure he did. <br />But I don't see this hoax follows his plan or numerology with that matter.
Think about it. If Live MJ himself really did go to the hospital himself, alive n fine, really was on that stretcher, alive n fine, was seen by those 2 docs, for whatever reason, alive n fine... and the media reported just a bunch of rumors n made up stories that day...<br /><br />...well that's just perfect isn't it. Isn't it???<br /><br />By the time Jermaine said the King of Pop was dead... everyone in the world KNEW IT WAS TRUE (lol) because that's what the media had been reporting for the last 3 hours already.
<br />I'm sticking with Live MJ on the stretcher. TS failed to present any reasons as to why this could not be, he just said he was going to... and then proceeded to not.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Good job girl, that's what I am sayin.
@scorpionchick, that's why I say you don't understand the numerology... because you don't understand it.<br /><br />I'm sure MJ would like to hear your correct principle of numerology.<br />
<br />Okay Andrea let me try it this way.... <br /><br />Here's how my twisted brain works.... <br /><br />
on 1322425273:
<br />TS said.....<br />"Fourth, the stretcher went into UCLA feet first. If MJ sat up on the stretcher, he would have to be riding it backwards! That is possible, of course, especially if he was planning to sit up; therefore, I consider this only a minor point. Please carefully compare these pictures; the second picture (click the link) is a stretcher from the LAFD, just like the one that went into ULCA. You should be able to see three or four things which show that the stretcher went into UCLA feet first {http://tinyurl.com/7h7l9zy}."<br /><br />It is very easy to see that the feet went first into UCLA. LAFD loads patients with the wheels first...the head is on the end with the wheels. You can see the wheels on the end of the stretcher...they came out last from the ambulance. Hence the feet went first, because they are not at the wheel end of the stretcher. <br /><br />
<br /><br />
on 1322210051:
<br /><br />[size=12pt]To make it as easy as possible, I’m going to go through a process of elimination here in 7b. I am going to start by showing that MJ did not go to the hospital in the ambulance (in fact, I have already started this process, in those last two paragraphs above); [/size] then I will go through other possibilities, one at a time (living double, nobody, dummy, corpse). And for each step in the process, I will be using at least two or three different strong points—which is a very good principle to use in all cases, not just this hoax investigation.<br /><br />Nevertheless, those who have built their faith on solid theories (such as the numerology, with a $999 reward that nobody has even attempted to collect after more than a year) will not be troubled over the collapse of the long-cherished but faulty hoax theories. Quite the contrary, the true how’s of the hoax will become quite clear; and then it will be even more obvious that it’s a hoax (not murder, or accidental manslaughter, etc).<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />Hence, the "stretcher" (notice not "Michael") went into the ER feet first, so the video clip of Michael "sitting up" is fake and was manipulated by (Evenstad?), plus TS states Micheal DID NOT go to the hospital in the ambulance....<br /><br />So, that leaves me to understand that Michael was neither on the stretcher nor in the ambulance, correct?<br /><br />So either;<br /><br />1) He was no where near UCLA that day<br /><br /> or <br /><br />2) He was already there/went there disguised as someone else<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
on 1322425273:
<br />TS said:<br /><br />"Fifth, there is one person standing in the doorway, who does not move with the stretcher (Heron). This means that unless the mystery face is that of someone walking with the stretcher on the far side of it, then EVERYONE walking with the stretcher is towards the camera (on the left side and head of it). This of course is possible, but it seems more reasonable that at least one person would be walking the stretcher on the far side (on the right side or foot of it)."<br /><br />
<br /><br />It possibly puts Michael in the vicinity (in disguise) or not there at all....which means there is either a corpse or dummy or nothing on that stretcher.<br /><br />That's my deduction. <br />
<br /><br />From the picture of the link TS provided when saying the stretcher was facing feet first was to show us just that - that the stretcher was facing feet first going into the hospital.<br /><br />The only thing for me that TS has debunked (so far, in relation to this) is that MJ didn't sit up in the stretcher. That is not 2 or 3 strong points. I think the other theories will be debunked with 2-3 strong points (and there have already been good points made) and then what will be left? The theory that wasn't solidly debunked and in fact the first one to be "eliminated"...? <br /><br />What doesn't sell me on the dummy or corpse theories (although if I had to think another way, it would be dummy and not a corpse) is that either of those options have the too many arguments against them - the main one being - who is it fooling - because of falsified reports from the paramedics, doctors and coroner. These documents show mistakes and a healthy main dying of accute propofol intoxication and no doctor signing the death certificate that day. If they had already agreed to do that (or sign off on falisified reports that had already been written) then you can see right away why no corpse is needed. <br /><br />I agree with Souza that the "nothing" argument should be done now, going with what is seen in that photo still.<br /><br />So that lives a dummy or live MJ. Somebody spotting either involves risk. Michael being there allows him first-hand control of his hoax, the one he's been planning for over 20 years.
<br />You are actually saying that Michael is Jesus, thus divine. If you think so, please show me with supporting scriptures that God intended to send his Son back to earth a second time in a human form. Not here, but in the thread I linked to above please.<br />
<br /><br />i am quite keen to see such a scripture. as in my 25 years of studying the bible, i have never come across such a scripture.
<br />@scorpionchick, that's why I say you don't understand the numerology... because you don't understand it.<br /><br />I'm sure MJ would like to hear your correct principle of numerology.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Instead of be sure that I "don't understand" IT , can you explain what is the principle of numerology then. I demonstrated it, what is your understandiing of numerology? Maybe there are different types of usage I am not aware of?<br /> Indeed MJ would.
<br />Fordtocarr it comes from this video...I had the still picture from it for over a year, but thought it had been discussed already.......<br /> /><br /><br />
<br /><br />I guess my x-ray vision isn't working today....I don't see it. :?<br /><br />I can't tell if it's MJ, a dummy, a corpse or the invisible man! :roll:<br /><br />How are we suppose to come to a conclusion with only these crumbs to work with? bangbang
<br />@scorpionchick, that's why I say you don't understand the numerology... because you don't understand it.<br /><br />I'm sure MJ would like to hear your correct principle of numerology.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Instead of be sure that I "don't understand" IT , can you explain what is the principle of numerology then. I demonstrated it, what is your understandiing of numerology? Maybe there are different types of usage I am not aware of?<br /> Indeed MJ would.<br />
<br /><br />a. The 911 call was in the first few seconds of 12:21<br />b. 12:21 to 2:26 is 2 hours and 5 minutes on June 25; 2 + 5 = 7<br />c. 1,221 + 226 = 1447; 1 + 4 + 4 + 7 = 16; 1 + 6 = 7<br />d. Memorial 7th day of 7th month, 7 years after will (and full moon)<br />e. 77 days from “death” to 9-9-09<br />f. 7 days from “burial” to 9-9-09 (and almost full moon)<br />g. THIS IS IT vowels = 999<br />h. HIS (HIStory and THIS IS IT) backwards = 1998<br />i. 1998 autograph; 1998 - 666 = 1332 / 4 = 333 + 666 = 999<br />j. 777 + 999 = 1776<br />k. All of these numbers (333, 666, 777, 999, 1221, 1776, 1998) are divisible by 111<br />l. 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001; 6 + 25 + 2009 = 2040 (space intros for Elvis and MJ)<br /><br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/tiai_update_6_5.php
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br />@scorpionchick, that's why I say you don't understand the numerology... because you don't understand it.<br /><br />I'm sure MJ would like to hear your correct principle of numerology.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Instead of be sure that I "don't understand" IT , can you explain what is the principle of numerology then. I demonstrated it, what is your understandiing of numerology? Maybe there are different types of usage I am not aware of?<br /> Indeed MJ would.<br />
<br /><br />Yes different usage you could call it: MJ's numerology; as explained by TS and as seen in MJ's work for the last 20-25 years. This is what you would understand if you bothered to read what TS wrote about it. But this too is off topic. You were asked that you read the whole thread and reviewed any TIAI threads or levels if you didn't understand something before commenting. You don't understand the numerology so you have no business commenting on it either way. The reason I know this for a fact because if you understood it, you would understand that it's only important because it matters to MJ and it indicates that HE planned all of these events. It proves he planned the whole thing. Ok? Numerology isn't important, recognizing that a crop circle isn't just dead corn stalks is half the battle, you follow? <br /><br />You can have the last word with one final post on our off topic argument and then we both need to drop it. Deal, scorpionchick?
Has anyone ever wondered how the hell Murray sat in that ambulance, with such a long body, and how he didn't get caught in the famous last photo.?? His knees would have been in the way, and how did the paramedics even have room to move? He is about 6 ft 4 <br /> />
With 7a nailed down solid, and a few other pointers, several have already connected dots that were never mentioned before (at least not that I’m aware of); I will be quoting some examples. However, there is one more VERY important issue that needs to be cleared up at this point; after that, it should be relatively smooth sailing to the destination.<br /><br />Here is the main question from level 5: “… what if I say that the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans, and killed him according to the exact timing that he had planned? … Did the Illuminati outthink him, or did he outthink the Illuminati?” {http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=19647.0}.<br /><br />All of the 7 levels have been about the “how’s” of the hoax. Did anyone realize that this question in level 5 was a BIG HINT? What if the Illuminati found out about his hoax plans in advance, and arranged to kill him at the very time and place when the world already thought he was dead (or on the brink of death)? That would be the perfect time and place to bump him off. How could you convince the world that he had been murdered AFTER he was already dead—that someone had indeed killed a dead man???<br /><br />You can see how HARD it is to convince the public of his hoax plans now, even with all the ADDITIONAL evidence that we’ve had since 6-25-09 (which we would NOT have, if he had actually died on 6-25-09). Furthermore, even IF you could convince the public that he was killed on 6-25-09, while planning to fake his death, it may never end up in court—the Illuminati may well be powerful enough to keep it out of court. And to top it all off: even if it went to court, and one or more were convicted for killing MJ while he was trying to fake his death, EVEN THEN you would still have a dead MJ. This also shows why it would not be a living double: MJ would not intentionally put someone else in a target position like that.<br /><br />So did the Illuminati outthink him? Or did he outthink them, AND FLY OUT OF THE COUNTRY HOURS BEFORE THE KICKOFF TIME? Just in case the answer to that question is not self-evident, Jermaine made it crystal clear in his “airport” slip/clue. But I’ll save the details on that for another post.<br />
<br /><br /><br /><br />Here we are now, at level 7b. :geek:<br /><br />We have only a few days left (until 11-29), but 7b and 7c should fall into place rather quickly—especially since I will be handing much of it out on a silver platter. <br /><br />In 7a, we have debunked the multiple ambulance theories; and have shown that the ambulance videos were both taken at the same time on 6-25-09. Discussion on that subject is now closed on this thread, unless you have read all the previous posts on this thread and have something NEW to contribute; even then, you MUST fulfill ALL THREE of the conditions outlined already (and if you don’t know what they are, it’s because you have not read everything yet). If you go ahead and post without fulfilling these conditions, then expect that your post will be deleted. This is in the interest of keeping on topic; and to avoid cluttering this thread by going over the same ground again and again, merely for the sake of those who are too lazy to read what has already been thoroughly debunked.<br /><br />One of the clearest ways to know when a theory has been irrefutably debunked, is when those who are still trying to defend the debunked theory have no EVIDENCE left to support the theory—and so they resort to any and all tactics OTHER than evidence, such as insinuating bad motives, or claims of secret evidence which can’t be shared, etc (notice that I have ALWAYS used evidence which is readily available on the internet). And these things have already showed up here in 7a, therefore anyone who REALLY wants the truth (and is not merely CLAIMING to want the truth) may know that all the video-taped ambulance events did occur at Carolwood on June 25, 2009.<br /><br />It is important that we understand 7a correctly, because it’s a solid foundation upon which we can build to find the answer for the main question in 7b (what went to the hospital in the ambulance?). For example, since the video events really happened on 6-25-09, we need to start thinking about all the people who were already at the residence (before any LAFD arrived)—were they ALL in on it? If so, why? And if not, what would keep them from finding out (and spilling the beans)?<br /><br />[size=12pt]Remember this statement, which I made at the beginning of this thread: “Start with the fewest people possible in on it, which would actually be zero and no hoax (MJ really died); and then work backwards from that point—changing nothing from the no hoax scenario, except what is NEEDED to be changed in order to accomplish the hoax.”[/size]<br /><br />For example, do you think that Kai Chase was in on it? If so, why? Would she NEED to be in on it, and what EVIDENCE is there that she is in on it? In fact, have you ever considered whether the CHILDREN were in on it initially (or just informed afterward)? And again, what EVIDENCE do you have on this?<br /><br />Some have claimed that MJ would or would not do things a certain way, merely because it does or does not fit his habits or personality. For example, some say he would love to be in the middle of the action; and he is a prankster, therefore that fits with him riding to UCLA, sitting up in the stretcher, riding the helicopter, hopping out of the van, etc.<br /><br />Although the above is correct in a general sense, it is not correct in relation to this hoax. Please notice the following, from TII (also in the puzzle above): “LIKE YOU’VE NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE”! This alone should tell us that the TII production is DIFFERENT from what we would normally expect out of MJ. The hoax is the biggest and most important production of his life; and he would not risk having it all ruined, merely so that he could have some fun riding around town in an ambulance, helicopter, and van.<br /><br />Far more important than the fun, is the SUCCESS of the project. If the first attempt failed, there would not be another opportunity ever again. The timing and numerology would never be as good again; and worse than that, the public would be expecting it the second time—so everyone would question his “death” on a second attempt. And speaking of success, notice this statement about The Illusionist: “… the masterful illusion that has been so SUCCESSFULLY planned & implemented.” {http://tinyurl.com/cc5bzx6}. So let’s be looking for a coherent theory, where SUCCESS is of utmost importance.<br /><br />To make it as easy as possible, I’m going to go through a process of elimination here in 7b. I am going to start by showing that MJ did not go to the hospital in the ambulance (in fact, I have already started this process, in those last two paragraphs above); then I will go through other possibilities, one at a time (living double, nobody, dummy, corpse). And for each step in the process, I will be using at least two or three different strong points—which is a very good principle to use in all cases, not just this hoax investigation.<br /><br />As we go through and continue to debunk some of these long-cherished hoax theories (NONE of which have EVER been supported by yours truly): no doubt it will cause some to fear that MJ really died, and there is no hoax (and this could be the reason for some of the resistance displayed in 7a). It is true, as Jesus said, that those who build their faith upon the sand will have their house collapse when a storm comes through (see Matthew 7:24-27).<br /><br />Nevertheless, those who have built their faith on solid theories (such as the numerology, with a $999 reward that nobody has even attempted to collect after more than a year) will not be troubled over the collapse of the long-cherished but faulty hoax theories. Quite the contrary, the true how’s of the hoax will become quite clear; and then it will be even more obvious that it’s a hoax (not murder, or accidental manslaughter, etc).<br /><br />And finally, once the how’s of the hoax become clear, then the why’s of the hoax will become even clearer than before. Understanding the why’s is very important—not only before BAM, but especially after. And if people who come to this forum after the BAM can see that we have a good solid coherent theory on the how’s, then they will be much more likely to believe that we also have the correct understanding of the why’s.<br />
<br /><br />Hello TS-<br /><br />I am working on 1 part of your suggestions. The bolded and enlarged part is what I will be focusing on for right now. I am starting with the least people in on it (0) and MJ dead, only changing what needs to be in order to pull off the hoax. In my theory the only 2 people who needed to be in on it (at the house) for this to work (in this phase) would be Murray and Alvarez. I wrote about Alberto here: http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=21319.msg373008#msg373008<br /><br />Every other person at the house before the LAFD showed up didn't need to have a direct role (at that time) for the Illusion to be successful. I will talk about that in another comment.<br /><br />I am adding videos of LAFD/Paramedic Senneff. He is stating what happened that day when he worked on Mr. Jackson. He is describing what he did and his fellow co-workers did that day. There is alot of info in the videos that will answer many questions that are being brought up in the last few pages. Heron that you spoke about in your other comment is a LAFD/Paramedic. He is described as the one who did the CPR on Mr. Jackson while in the room at the house. Everyone who arrived at the house from LAFD did their job as they would for any other patient. The only thing I am changing now is substituting a corpse/cadaver for alive MJ.<br /><br />Blount intubated the corpse/cadaver and Senneff says it is difficult to intubate (he doesn't say if it is difficult on a dead or alive person) just that it is difficult. Maybe for him it is but, for Blount it was a breeze and Senneff was surprised. Some people have natural talent in areas that others do not.<br /><br />Senneff says there was no heart activity on his machine that he hooked up to Mr. Jackson. That makes sense since the patient is already dead. No surprise there. There was no pulse on the patient and Murray just said that in order to move to the next phase of the hoax--the hospital.<br /><br />IMO the 2 DR's who testified are not in on it. Cooper wanted to pronounce MJ dead based off of what Senneff told the nurse and the nurse relayed the info to her. Cooper never even saw MJ before she decided to call time of death. At Murray's urging the Paramedics decided to keep going in their efforts to save MJ. At the hospital it was Murray who urged the DR.'s to keep going and it is my belief that he finally said at the correct hoax time of death (2:26) ok you can call it. I have wrote about my theory regarding Murray being the influence on Cooper to call time of death in another thread. I have limited what I have wrote before to save time. I will post those at another time. typing/<br /><br />
<br />@scorpionchick, that's why I say you don't understand the numerology... because you don't understand it.<br /><br />I'm sure MJ would like to hear your correct principle of numerology.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Instead of be sure that I "don't understand" IT , can you explain what is the principle of numerology then. I demonstrated it, what is your understandiing of numerology? Maybe there are different types of usage I am not aware of?<br /> Indeed MJ would.<br />
<br /><br />a. The 911 call was in the first few seconds of 12:21<br />b. 12:21 to 2:26 is 2 hours and 5 minutes on June 25; 2 + 5 = 7<br />c. 1,221 + 226 = 1447; 1 + 4 + 4 + 7 = 16; 1 + 6 = 7<br />d. Memorial 7th day of 7th month, 7 years after will (and full moon)<br />e. 77 days from “death” to 9-9-09<br />f. 7 days from “burial” to 9-9-09 (and almost full moon)<br />g. THIS IS IT vowels = 999<br />h. HIS (HIStory and THIS IS IT) backwards = 1998<br />i. 1998 autograph; 1998 - 666 = 1332 / 4 = 333 + 666 = 999<br />j. 777 + 999 = 1776<br />k. All of these numbers (333, 666, 777, 999, 1221, 1776, 1998) are divisible by 111<br />l. 8 + 16 + 1977 = 2001; 6 + 25 + 2009 = 2040 (space intros for Elvis and MJ)<br /><br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/tiai_update_6_5.php<br />
<br /><br />Certainly different type of numerology from what I know. Thank you Souza. <br /><br />@Bec, I won't bother reading TS as detailed as you do. Sooner or later everything will be clear anyway.<br /> BTW, as much as I read TS posts, I found many incosistencies.
<br />BTW, as much as I read TS posts, I found many incosistencies.<br />
<br /><br />Could you give one or two examples?<br /><br />MANY people have tried to debunk what I have said, and so far EVERYONE who has attempted has failed. So if you can do it, you would be the very first one in more than two years of failed attempts!
<br /><br />I agree with Souza that the "nothing" argument should be done now, going with what is seen in that photo still.<br /><br />
<br /><br />Agree with you guys. At least we could debunk the "nothing went to UCLA" theory.<br />
<br /><br />I said "nothing" in comparison with a corpse or a dummy.<br />I said "inflatable doll" could have done it as well (since it is strapped on the stretcher) under the right preconditions that we don't know.<br /><br />In the light of "murder attempt" it does not make any sense at all that Michael himself went into lion's hell, does it?<br />It does also not make any sense that any other person alive would go into lion's hell.<br />A dummy does not fool any emergency staff at UCLA (except they are in), a corpse would do for some seconds - but then again: not a heated, unthawed or else treated one. <br />Narrowing the time window and adding pressure ("they have found out") does not make it more plausible that a corpse would be used either.<br /><br />And if they would have found out a secret plan - why would they not find out the many publicly distributed clues of MJ still being alive and would not be chasing him around the globe - the more as his kids are a very prominent target now?<br />Would the kids be so happy if MJ would still be chased?
<br />... At the hospital it was Murray who urged the DR.'s to keep going and it is my belief that he finally said at the correct hoax time of death (2:26) ok you can call it. I have wrote about my theory regarding Murray being the influence on Cooper to call time of death in another thread. <br />
<br /><br />I might also point out that the 2:26 death time is the least important of all the numerology. So even IF the death had been called earlier, it would not change the major times/dates (12:21, 9-9-09, etc).
Comments
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."