<br />Okay, but why leave Blount in the dark if you are going to let him in before his testimony anyway? Or was it not MJ camp who ordered him to lie?<br />
<br /><br />He could have been informed after the 'emergency' and got instructions for the testimony.
<br />He was the driver when they arrived at Carlwood but I only assume he was also the driver when they left Carlwood.<br />
<br /><br />Yes, but that is an incorrect assumption. He was riding in the back, on the way to UCLA.<br />
<br /><br />Well if that's true, Blount doesn't have to be in, if a corpse was used, Senneff could have been driving. But in that case, why would Blount recognize the person as being MJ? <br />
<br /><br />then whatever it was on the stretcher had to have looked like mj if blount says he recognised mj.... yet mj alive is debunked. doesnt make sense.... i am confused, is it just me?
No one has to know all the ins and outs of the hoax, that's not the point.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
a better question might be 'Who stayed at Carolwood that day?' an impersonator? a dummy?a photography? 'Who did Blount regognize as Michael Jackson, but who not followed in the ambulance?'
<br />I don't believe they would kill him according to this numerology, but I have never thought about the option of them trying after the world would already think he's dead. But that would mean AFTER he was pronounced dead. <br />
<br /><br />No, they probably would not follow the 12:21 and 2:26; but we are NOT discussing here if the ACTUALLY got him (and since we have these numbers, then they did not get him). Instead, we are discussing how MJ would PLAN for things to go. They could take him out any time after the (supposedly) "not breathing" point in time, and the world would think that MJ was already dead (or very nearly so). The risk therefore did not start at 2:26, the risk started a couple of hours before that.<br /><br />Also, I am not saying that MJ found out that they were planning to get him that day. Rather, I'm saying he knew that there was a general threat out there (and had been there for a long time); and IF someone in the hoax leaked his plans, it would be an unnecessary risk to go to the hospital (and also escape from the hospital, with a lot of people around--not all of whom you can trust).<br /><br />Yes, there was also risk while getting away in a plane, and afterwards; but much less people needed to know about the specifics of the getaway, than the people in on the hoax. You can't eliminate all risks, but you can minimize them.<br />
<br />I don't believe they would kill him according to this numerology, but I have never thought about the option of them trying after the world would already think he's dead. But that would mean AFTER he was pronounced dead. <br />
<br /><br />No, they probably would not follow the 12:21 and 2:26; but we are NOT discussing here if the ACTUALLY got him (and since we have these numbers, then they did not get him). Instead, we are discussing how MJ would PLAN for things to go. They could take him out any time after the (supposedly) "not breathing" point in time, and the world would think that MJ was already dead (or very nearly so). The risk therefore did not start at 2:26, the risk started a couple of hours before that.<br /><br />Also, I am not saying that MJ found out that they were planning to get him that day. Rather, I'm saying he knew that there was a general threat out there (and had been there for a long time); and IF someone in the hoax leaked his plans, it would be an unnecessary risk to go to the hospital (and also escape from the hospital, with a lot of people around--not all of whom you can trust).<br /><br />Yes, there was also risk while getting away in a plane, and afterwards; but much less people needed to know about the specifics of the getaway, than the people in on the hoax. You can't eliminate all risks, but you can minimize them.<br />
<br /><br />I get what you are saying, but that would mean MJ's original plan was to be on the scene all the way. Or MJ's plan was never being on scene the whole day, because he already knew their plan and therefore leaked false information.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
<br /><br />So did the Illuminati outthink him? Or did he outthink them, AND FLY OUT OF THE COUNTRY HOURS BEFORE THE KICKOFF TIME? Just in case the answer to that question is not self-evident, Jermaine made it crystal clear in his “airport” slip/clue. But I’ll save the details on that for another post.<br />
<br /><br />Why ask the question if you gave the answer.....
<br /><br />A thought question, rhetorical question.<br /><br />
on 1322468528:
<br />I have a question for you TS....after all this time...<br />After all you are starting to give some answers so why not this one.... ;D<br />Is it correct that Dave Dave on LK was not the real Dave Dave....<br />But a guy that was supposed to be in a coffin at that time?<br />You dont have to send a making of vid or pic....<br />Just a simple YES or No would do it after 2 years....
<br /><br />I haven't touched this because I don't want people to accept what I say merely because I say it. I would have to get into a long debate over the evidence, which I do not think is worth the time.<br /><br />I do agree, however, that it does not look like the real Dave Dave on LKL. Nevertheless, it could've been an MJ double. And I don't want to spend the time arguing over whether it was a double or the real MJ.<br />
<br /><br />Hi TS<br />Thanks anyway.<br />It does not look....we dont have to debate about it...i totally agree on this one..... lolol/<br />
<br />This is the one photo that shows the stretcher entering UCLA emergency....not that clear, but might help us decide what went to UCLA that day...The body does look alot bigger than MJ's....<br />God bless<br /><br />And by the way, all of this would have been caught on security camera above the emergency doors..<br /><br />I wonder whether the FBI made UCLA hand over the video so that it could not be sold to the media !!!! Or, should we be wondering why it has not been shown by now.<br />
<br /><br />Well, looks like the "nothing went to UCLA" can be thrown in the trash bin. There is clearly something/someone on the stretcher. <br />
<br /><br />Yes, that is one strong point against the nothing theory. And we also have the testimony of Sharon Sidney, so that is two strong points.<br /><br />A third strong point is the nothing theory would require ALL of the paramedics in on the hoax (which nobody has offered even ONE strong point, that I know of, much less two or three). And it would also require ALL of the UCLA staff who worked the situation, to be in on it. Again, why have so many in on it?<br /><br />Some have said that the area was restricted, so they could control who came into the room. While that is true, regarding the public and certain hospital staff; it is hard to know in advance every staff person who might be there that day, with authority to enter a restricted area (or at least thinks that they have authority, and decides to go in and "help out"). Randy said that there was a "... flurry of activity going on behind this curtain in the E -- um, emergency room ..." {33:49, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDEdX5HlGDU}.<br />
<br />... <br />I get what you are saying, but that would mean MJ's original plan was to be on the scene all the way. Or MJ's plan was never being on scene the whole day, because he already knew their plan and therefore leaked false information.<br />
<br /><br />Well, I think you still didn't quite get it.<br /><br />MJ's ORIGINAL plan was to NOT go to the hospital, because of the POSSIBILITY that someone MIGHT leak the hoax (which would be a risk whatever his plan was, but especially IF his plan was to go to the hospital--therefore, that was not his plan).
AThis circus sure needed double or triple planning, so there was a plan B, might be even a plan C.What we witnessed was at least plan B if I get you right, TS.
<br />I haven't touched this because I don't want people to accept what I say merely because I say it. I would have to get into a long debate over the evidence, which I do not think is worth the time.<br /><br />I do agree, however, that it does not look like the real Dave Dave on LKL. Nevertheless, it could've been an MJ double. And I don't want to spend the time arguing over whether it was a double or the real MJ.<br />
<br /><br />Well, that's a pity that you dont want to debate on this one. To be able to establish if DD was MJ or not on Larry King's Live, could have been crucial in our investigation. It could be the most exciting part of our adventure...<br />I also do not see a point in using an MJ double in this one... I would rather believe DD to be a dummy than a double... <br />
Can I just add again, the paramedics report.....and what is really wrong with it...<br /><br />According to the report, we have a patient dying of cancer with chest pains.....and the case is not considered an emergency. The patient had normal pulse rate, and oxygen levels, but flatlined shortly after the paramedics attended to him...<br /><br />Why did we have an extra EMS 9 car on scene, only to be sent away later?? If it was an emergency at Carolwood, then they would have stayed...<br /><br />Carolwood has another two entrances, which an ambulance could have easily snuck in through while no-one was looking......We do not have any photos at all of an ambulance arriving....even though 3 fans were outside and so was Chris Weiss....Strange ???<br /><br />We have real or fake documentation proving the patient was still breathing until it got to UCLA....<br /><br />these are the documents, once again.
here is a thought that is completely insane.....................but what the heck !!!!!!!!!!!!!! could the person trying to kill michael have been in the house...and was murdered......................no no now i see i am insane lol...................well never mind.......cant say we have not tried all ideas ha ha xxxx
What is this body, had a prosthetic mask on....I mean one which really looks real ???..<br /><br />The only problem that I have with the theory that someone else died in place of MJ, is getting someone to do it..<br />Who would die for him?? I mean is it even a possibility that he would even accept such an offer from someone...??? I don't think that's an option....Someone died, that looked like an asian man,<br />who resembled MJ....<br /><br />So the ambulance transported the hospice patient earlier that day through a back entrance to Carolwood..???<br /> /pull hair/ /pull hair/ /scream/ /scream/ /scream/ /scream/<br /><br />[size=10pt]I got it..........It was a clone made of him.... lol [/size] /white flag/ /white flag/<br /><br />
<br />here is a thought that is completely insane.....................but what the heck !!!!!!!!!!!!!! could the person trying to kill michael have been in the house...and was murdered......................no no now i see i am insane lol...................well never mind.......cant say we have not tried all ideas ha ha xxxx<br />
<br /><br />Hmmmmmmmm....that's one avenue we haven't explored yet....but then again, anything is possible at this point... You know, I kinda think Alvarez has something fishy about him.....I think he was the one that betrayed MJ, and that's why he was terminated...the other bodyguards don't respect him anymore..<br /><br />
Now I’m more convinced than ever that for all this to happen in real time, with no rehearsal, with so many random people around not in the hoax, so very few in on it, people out to kill him that may have known some of his hoax plans, tons of random problems/changes could have happened to affect hoax results—that this was a complete and utter miracle to be anywhere near achieving the expected hoped for success that MJ wanted. And this was his one and only opportunity on this day, that could not be repeated, his greatest dream and masterpiece.<br /><br />Okay so Sharon’s story convinces those who think Michael was murdered of some kind of covert sinister action. She is deliberately left for a few still seconds in Ben’s video so her testimony must be important for the hoax. She suggests on the live show that MJ is alive, feeding that idea. She confirms to us that the ambulance did arrive at the house, because we don’t see that part. The question is were the kidnappers working for MJ’s good or evil? Are they FBI agents taking him to the airport?<br /><br />She certainly seems to know the family, even having Joe’s number, and saying she’s chatted with MJ numerous times. Could she be in on the hoax, carrying out this role of suggesting these things? But she does seem to be genuinely emotional and passionate as if she’s not acting.<br /><br />TS, what about a bomb or sabotage of the plane?<br /><br />Souza<br />
[size=9pt]I get what you are saying, but that would mean MJ's original plan was to be on the scene all the way. Or MJ's plan was never being on scene the whole day, because he already knew their plan and therefore leaked false information.[/size]
<br />[size=9pt]Maybe that’s why we’ve had such a gamut of leads that seemed contradictory all these months—so much disinformation, false leads, so they won’t know what was the truth. I expect they would also read here, since this is the first hoax site.[/size]<br /><br />[size=9pt]2good2btrue, a clone? Like Dolly the sheep? [/size] <br />Lindsay Lohan still thought Alverez was a trustworthy bodyguard.
<br />here is a thought that is completely insane.....................but what the heck !!!!!!!!!!!!!! could the person trying to kill michael have been in the house...and was murdered......................no no now i see i am insane lol...................well never mind.......cant say we have not tried all ideas ha ha xxxx<br />
<br /><br />Hmmmmmmmm....that's one avenue we haven't explored yet....but then again, anything is possible at this point... You know, I kinda think Alvarez has something fishy about him.....I think he was the one that betrayed MJ, and that's why he was terminated...the other bodyguards don't respect him anymore..<br />
<br /><br />But MJ had this hoax planned for a long time and with all the numerology and set up etc, that just wouldn't work out.<br /><br />Can anyone explain the photo of MJ on the gurney after he was pronounced dead, was that really done on the same day?
<br />here is a thought that is completely insane.....................but what the heck !!!!!!!!!!!!!! could the person trying to kill michael have been in the house...and was murdered......................no no now i see i am insane lol...................well never mind.......cant say we have not tried all ideas ha ha xxxx<br />
<br /><br />Well nothing suprises me anymore..... /scream/<br />But with a little help of a bottle propofol anything is possible....:)..
<br />What is this body, had a prosthetic mask on....I mean one which really looks real ???..<br /><br />The only problem that I have with the theory that someone else died in place of MJ, is getting someone to do it..<br />Who would die for him?? I mean is it even a possibility that he would even accept such an offer from someone...??? I don't think that's an option....Someone died, that looked like an asian man,<br />who resembled MJ....<br /><br />So the ambulance transported the hospice patient earlier that day through a back entrance to Carolwood..???<br /> /pull hair/ /pull hair/ /scream/ /scream/ /scream/ <br /><br />[size=10pt]I got it..........It was a clone made of him....like "Frankenstein" lol [/size] /white flag/ /white flag/ <br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Could this substitute have been someone on life support, a vegetable, with "no brain". If the family gives consent to UCLA for medical purposes, or they sign saying which day they want life support stopped--June 25, 2009. The propofol was injected along with Lorazapam, he stopped breathing. Ambulance was called and on and on right up to pronou_ced dead. If Sharon has already said the patient didn't look like MJ, then he doesn't have to. Sounds like nobdy wants to listen to her complaints--calling her crazy. Group think--everyone finally just follows orders because they don't want to be called an idiot or delusional.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Vegetable takes on new meaning!<br />And MJ certainly HAS been "starting something"! <br />
[size=10pt][1st Verse][/size][size=10pt]<br />I Took My Baby To The Doctor[/size]<br />With A Fever, But Nothing He Found<br />By The Time This Hit The Street<br />They Said She Had A Breakdown<br />Someone's Always Tryin' To Start My Baby Cryin'<br />Talkin', Squealin', Lyin'<br />Sayin' You Just Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'<br />[size=10pt] [/size]<br />[size=10pt]I Said You Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'[/size][size=10pt]<br />You Got To Be Startin' Somethin'[/size]<br />I Said You Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'<br />You Got To Be Startin' Somethin'<br />It's Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)<br />Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)<br />You're Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)<br />And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)<br />It's Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)<br />Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)<br />You're Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)<br />And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)<br />You're A Vegetable, You're A Vegetable<br />Still They Hate You, You're A Vegetable<br />You're Just A Buffet, You're A Vegetable<br />They Eat Off Of You, You're A Vegetable<br />
<br />Can I just add again, the paramedics report.....and what is really wrong with it...<br /><br />According to the report, we have a patient dying of cancer with chest pains.....and the case is not considered an emergency. The patient had normal pulse rate, and oxygen levels, but flatlined shortly after the paramedics attended to him...<br /><br />Why did we have an extra EMS 9 car on scene, only to be sent away later?? If it was an emergency at Carolwood, then they would have stayed...<br /><br />Carolwood has another two entrances, which an ambulance could have easily snuck in through while no-one was looking......We do not have any photos at all of an ambulance arriving....even though 3 fans were outside and so was Chris Weiss....Strange ???<br /><br />We have real or fake documentation proving the patient was still breathing until it got to UCLA....<br /><br />these are the documents, once again. <br />
<br /><br />hey 2good......<br />I found this site just last night. I am not sure if it's from our Lady Medic that posted here...but there is some really good stuff as far as explanations of what is what...perhaps something will stand out to you:<br /><br />http://lady-medic.blogspot.com/2010_06_01_archive.html<br /><br />Blessings<br /><br />PS> here is some information I posted a long time ago about the paramedic's report too....it's not filled out correctly per the LAFD handbook:<br /><br />http://www.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/smf2.0/index.php?topic=19392.msg335730#msg335730
Wow...the things you miss when you finally get some sleep!<br /><br />@WishingStar...good reminder of the incorrectly filled out paramedic report. If I remember correctly, it was Senneff that filled it out? Could that 'hint' towards him being in on it?<br /><br />I had thought that Blount WAS in on it because he was the one actually working the patient...but it looks like some of TS' recent posts change some things around, at least in my brain. By my count, even without TS' filling in ALL the blanks (yet) in debunking the possibilities...we can eliminate the following: 1) Live MJ, 2) living double, 3) nothing, and 4) dummy. All we're left with is a real corpse errrr...my least favorable scenario. Perhaps there are at least 3 things that point to ALL the paramedics being in on it, although I can't seem to come up with 3...but if they were NOT in on it, then the dummy theory and the 'nothing' theory fly out the window....so, that would mean someone died that day <br /><br />There's no way that MJ would agree to have someone killed just so he has a body for his hoax lol...and I highly doubt that MJ would agree to have a healthy male give up his life for his hoax, even if all they wanted was their family taken care of after their 'sacrifice'. So, that leads me to believe it was someone who was terminally ill (hospice patient theory) and who agreed, or his family agreed, to have his 'body' used in the hoax. Thinking back to some of TS' posts, he DID kinda hint towards this possibility and I recall some members not 'liking' the theory because of ethical reasons. Knowing what we do know about MJ and IF this is what actually took place, I'm just about positive that he wasn't jumping for joy at the 'opportunity' and that all ethical dilemmas were sorted out beforehand.<br /><br />Unless, as has been discussed many times in the past, it was simply a donated 'body' that had been kept frozen (the heated room might support that)...but I remember there being a few things 'wrong' with this theory (who the heck knows at this point :?).<br /><br />Alright...where do we go from here? November 29 is fast approaching and we haven't wrapped up 'b' in any 'solid-type' fashion and we still have 'c' to get through smiley_spider. Time's a ticking TS...perhaps your presence today and tonight will help us reach the destination before the whistle blows.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
It seems that the correct choice will be a corpse?<br /><br />Well, if the FBI is in, everything can be ...<br /><br />There is only one question ... If Michael's life was in danger so he would have left their children?<br /><br />If people who wanted to kill him discovered their plans, which is easy if they enter this forum, could not they threaten his children and his family, making Michael return sooner than expected?
<br />This is the one photo that shows the stretcher entering UCLA emergency....not that clear, but might help us decide what went to UCLA that day...The body does look alot bigger than MJ's....<br />God bless<br /><br />And by the way, all of this would have been caught on security camera above the emergency doors..<br /><br />I wonder whether the FBI made UCLA hand over the video so that it could not be sold to the media !!!! Or, should we be wondering why it has not been shown by now.<br />
<br /><br />Well, looks like the "nothing went to UCLA" can be thrown in the trash bin. There is clearly something/someone on the stretcher. <br />
<br /><br />Yes, that is one strong point against the nothing theory. And we also have the testimony of Sharon Sidney, so that is two strong points.<br /><br />A third strong point is the nothing theory would require ALL of the paramedics in on the hoax (which nobody has offered even ONE strong point, that I know of, much less two or three). And it would also require ALL of the UCLA staff who worked the situation, to be in on it. Again, why have so many in on it?<br /><br />Some have said that the area was restricted, so they could control who came into the room. While that is true, regarding the public and certain hospital staff; it is hard to know in advance every staff person who might be there that day, with authority to enter a restricted area (or at least thinks that they have authority, and decides to go in and "help out"). Randy said that there was a "... flurry of activity going on behind this curtain in the E -- um, emergency room ..." {33:49, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDEdX5HlGDU}.<br />
<br /><br />But since this whole thing asks us to look at the movie "The Illusionist" then was it just a graphic image that went to the hospital. The thing about TI(The Illusionist) or TII (This is Illusion) is that the magician was actually not present that day of his show, it was just a projection of him. So did the projection move from the bed to the floor, to the bed, and Murray could not do CPR because there was nothing to do CPR on. But then a few people would have to be in on it. The projection could also give the wrong body size at some moments.<br /><br />So was wondering about TII - I have often thought that the doubles people talk about are actually Michael projections that sometimes get skewed and so the face/body is bigger/smaller. Remember that one pic of him looking at himself on stage? And on the days he was present he made sure that people knew he was around, by actually hugging each and every one of the dancers.<br /><br />So Timor Steffens commenting that they could never hear Michael approach them, he just appeared at times but then later he started smelling Michael before he could have seen him, could easily be achieved by just spraying the area before the illusion appeared. That would have been perfect practice for whatever Michael planned.<br />
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"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."