I'm with you on that Bec, 9/11 did not happen to take MJ out.. pffffft not believing that baloney. Frank Cascio says in his book that it was a 2 million dollar watch that was borrowed for MJ, from a jeweler, to wear at the 30th anniversary gig in madison square garden and the HE (Frank) was supposed to take it back, to Bank of America offices, the morning of 9/11,, not Michael. He woke up late to one of the security guys callin him tellin him one of the buildings had been hit, and they got the hell outta dodge.
<br />I think I'm pretty grounded in reality and my brain is intact inside my cranium, thank you. But no matter. I am teflon. Shit shall not stick.<br /><br />Re: the current topic, the '9/11 was designed to [also] take out MJ' theory contains a pretty tall accusation. I'd like to see substantiation that MJ was indeed scheduled to be there before accepting the theory as plausible.<br />
<br /><br />I don't know how factual this is but when I read Frank Cascio's book, he said that he [Frank] was the one who had to go to to the towers on 9/11 to return the jewelry (the watch and the necklace that Michael gave to Elizabeth Taylor) that Michael had borrowed to the Bank of America offices located in the towers. Frank never mentioned Michael going with him.
<br />I'm with you on that Bec, 9/11 did not happen to take MJ out.. pffffft not believing that baloney. Frank Cascio says in his book that it was a 2 million dollar watch that was borrowed for MJ, from a jeweler, to wear at the 30th anniversary gig in madison square garden and the HE (Frank) was supposed to take it back, to Bank of America offices, the morning of 9/11,, not Michael. He woke up late to one of the security guys callin him tellin him one of the buildings had been hit, and they got the hell outta dodge.<br />
<br /><br />oops we posted at the same time lolol/
This is indeed one of the dangers of 'conspiracy theories' and 'conspiracy theorists' - a tendency, once one suspects or even knows something is up, to jump too far and end up doggedly believing everything is connected to the particular theory. Balance is needed and a reliance only on proven facts.
<br />I'm with you on that Bec, 9/11 did not happen to take MJ out.. pffffft not believing that baloney. Frank Cascio says in his book that it was a 2 million dollar watch that was borrowed for MJ, from a jeweler, to wear at the 30th anniversary gig in madison square garden and the HE (Frank) was supposed to take it back, to Bank of America offices, the morning of 9/11,, not Michael. He woke up late to one of the security guys callin him tellin him one of the buildings had been hit, and they got the hell outta dodge.<br />
<br /><br />oops we posted at the same time lolol/<br />
<br /> Well said Im_convinced and Susie, and I like the empowerment lol. The point is to be educated because education is awareness, thus it does not have to equate fear. We should and can all live our lives happily and having fun, pursuing our goals etc., but take with us our knowledge. Knowledge is a powerful tool as they say and the best weapon to have is our mind. <br /><br /> MsTrinity333, those videos were good and I recommend people watch the first one you posted titled: God TV and The United Nations. He spoke perfectly about the NWO agenda being implemented by the U.N. Jehovah's Witnesses have the same take on the "beast" mentioned in Revelation; they also have a DVD I've watched that connects the ancient religions of Babylon to modern day world governments and religions. It is very much about the system rather than an actual beast interpreted by many. <br /><br /> When he spoke about the U.N.'s agenda being Occult Theocracy and global order, it reminded me of the occultic phrase "as above, so below". This obviously opposes The Bible as the King James Version reads, "Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."<br />Given they (our world leaders) do everything in opposition of God, our one world religion--Occult Theocracy-- will be just that. So, the agenda will be a "kingdom on earth" but under a Luciferian religion with the belief that "All is One, All is Divine; everything and everyone is God". The Bible shows us Lucifer promised Adam and Eve that "Ye shall be as gods". To summarize, this lie told by Lucifer and taught by our leaders represents the Great Apostasy, the falling away which was prophesied in The Book of Revelation.<br /><br />I forgot to add bearhug to you too MsTrinity <br />
TS<br />[color=rgb(74, 74, 74)]the reality of the power and the agenda which exists in the underworld, and that they actually did try to take MJ out in the trade towers on 9-11 (but they failed).[/color]
I don't know how factual this is but when I read Frank Cascio's book, he said that he [Frank] was the one who had to go to to the towers on 9/11 to return the jewelry (the watch and the necklace that Michael gave to Elizabeth Taylor) that Michael had borrowed to the Bank of America offices located in the towers. Frank never mentioned Michael going with him.
<br />So who really knows, and who's telling the truth in this? Is TS only saying this on hearsay? :? <br /><br /><br />Bec<br />
Re: the current topic, the '9/11 was designed to [also] take out MJ' theory contains a pretty tall accusation. I'd like to see substantiation that MJ was indeed scheduled to be there before accepting the theory as plausible.
<br />Yes, I agree. This doesn't look good.<br />[color=rgb(74, 74, 74)][/color]
Mjselfsweet you are correct, 9-11 did NOT happen in order to take MJ out; rather it would have happened anyway, MJ being killed would have been of extra benefit for the elite. To reiterate, the event that day did NOT happen BECAUSE OF MJ, it was planned ahead of time for many reasons other than him alone. <br /><br /> Bec, it is not at all a tall accusation if you understand the complexity of the conspiracy (Illuminati), and what they have done in the past. In fact, many things done by them have been much more "complicated" in my opinion. Why would MJ have his siblings write about what you believe to be a "tall accusation" if it was not a true story and an actual attempt? Is this really just a lie to throw hoax believers off, even though their books have the potential to be read by millions containing this lie? IF there was no real threat that day, giving the possibility that he could have died on 9-11 is a serious thing to allege, given all of the people who did die that day.<br /><br /> In an interview, Jermaine stated "My mother had stayed up with him all the way until four in the morning and he just slept; he missed *his appointments*, which was great." <br />La Toya and Frank BOTH stated something similar so I won't repeat their quotes. Why would Jermaine state "he missed his appointments, which was great", if he didn't have any appointment to miss thus, saving his life? We have 4 reliable people stating the same thing: MJ had an appointment in the World Trade Center on 9-11. Jermaine, La Toya, Frank and TS (an inside source!), have ALL confirmed this story. Of course you could say "we can't believe everything they say", but why do we take some things they say as "clues" and not others? Just because we don't WANT to believe in something, does not make it false. There is more that shows this "theory" was real versus not, and if you think different, perhaps give a logical explanation as to why the family, Frank and TS would lie. I think this is enough evidence to substantiate the claim as his itinerary from that day isn't available.
Australian, I knew you would lol . I didn't have time to explain it as well as I would have liked, but the video MsTrinity posted does a good job at that anyway.<br /><br /> Bec, I noticed you had to say your brain is indeed inside your cranium, good to know; but who said it wasn't? There is no need to be made of "teflon" as no one here is personally attacking anyone. Your name nor anyone elses was mentioned, maybe some things really are just meant to address everyone in general.
<br /> I see MissG. <br />@Heartsong It was allegedly supposed to be with Frank Cascio...I have no time to find the exact quote right now but I'll be back later unless you find it first.<br />
<br /><br />Thanks Suzy, I knew I heard it somewhere. I remember it swayed me back to the middle again as far as an opinion was concerned...I googled for ages only finding tons of reports on Jermaine saying Michael was meant to be there (I knew Jerm's said something about it, just opposite of what I thought, lol). <br /><br />I really couldn't find anything about Michael and the WTC appt that didn't have Jermaine's name attached to it, so no info earlier than Jermaine's claims, tho a couple articles did say MJ was in New York at the time (I'm pretty sure we all agree on that). Found nothing on Frank's counter claim but I see that mjselfsweet and MichaelsAngel *hugs* have both read Frank's book and confirm what Frank said about going there himself (or having to but didn't?). <br /><br />I wonder how Frank avoided being there then? Sleep in too or just a later appt? Hmmm, I wonder if that jewelry was part of the recent Liz's jewelry auction? If it was we could pretty much trace it by spotting what Michael was wearing at the Madison Square Gardens gig. Or it may have just been the expensive watch...<br /><br />So, what a surprise, we have further contradictions.<br /><br />I did find another couple interesting articles, one saying Michael, Liz and Marlon Brando hired a car to drive home after the attacks but that Liz decided to stay and wait for the airport to reopen. No further details were there regarding the ensuing trip or even if it ensued at all except a comment that it would have been an "interesting" journey. The other was a list of 10 famous people who missed appointments in the WTC that day. Some I haven't heard of (a celebrity cook), and one I have (Gywnth Paltrow) but Michael wasn't listed...
Frank c said in his book, after the last show, mj and family, frank and his family/girlfriend all went back to the hotel after the last show, frank and his gf left and met up w/some other friends at about 1:30 am,food and wine (6 or 7 bottles), he had his alarm set for 7:45am for the appt to return the jewelry, slept thru it, and woke up when one of michaels security called, saying planes had hit the towers. he said he met michael, kids, grace and his brothers(franks) at "the car" and suggested they head to his parents house in NJ, and "luckily" one of the security guards was a retired chief of police and was able to get them permission to leave, because all the bridges had been closed to traffic. no mention of mjs family or anyone else. so dont know. <br /><br />one of the "stalkers" oops i mean "followers", writes on her blog that mj or company, arranged for her and some other fans, to have his bus and stay in it after this all went on, i'll have to review her writings about it again for more specific details about it. but there is a picture of her on a bus.<br /><br />and i still wont buy the "they were going to take him out also", "get two birds w/one stone" And sorry, but I only take HALF of what latoya and jermaine say and believe it. MJ wasnt close to them for years and years, that was obvious, and after his "death" i think they all scrambled trying to look informed and involved. What family wouldnt? now, he may have involved them in the hoax now, because he needed them,,but before all of this,,his interaction w/them was very limited. maybe the only ones he stayed close w/ janet n katherine. JMO,, no reply needed, its my belief and I'm stickin to it.
I don't know whether or not Mike had meetings in the Trade Center on 9/11...I don't think there's any way to 'prove' it one way or the other, at this point anyway. I know what TS and the family have said about him having had a meeting that day and missing it. What makes me question their 'stories' is that Mike, himself, never publically stated that he, in fact, 'dodged' death that day by not going to some meeting. <br /><br />Here's a quote from an interview he did with Vibe magazine where he talks about 9/11:<br /><br />Jackson on September 11:<br /> "I was in New York [after performing at Madison Square Garden on September<br /> 7 and 10], and I got a call from friends in Saudi Arabia that America was<br /> being attacked. I screamed down the hotel hallway to all our people,<br /> 'Everybody get out, let's leave now!' Marlon Brando was on one end, our<br /> security was on the other end. We were all up there, but Elizabeth Taylor was<br /> at another hotel. We jumped in the car, but there were these girls who had<br /> been at the show the night before, and they were banging on the windows,<br /> running down the street screaming. Fans are so loyal. We hid in New Jersey."<br /><br />Of course, him not mentioning having any meeting that day does NOT prove anything (i.e. it doesn't prove that he didn't). But I do find it odd that IF true, that when speaking about his recollection of that fateful day, he would not mention having escaped death. To me, THAT fact would be much, much more important than the 'girls' who'd been at the show the night before.<br /><br />Again, it doesn't mean he didn't have a meeting....but it makes me wonder why he would've kept silent about it all this time (I think we first learned about this meeting in La Toya's book). There may very well be a good reason as to why he didn't mention it in the Vibe interview and why it remained a 'secret' all this time....perhaps that's just another 'piece' that has yet to be revealed, who knows. OR...there was no meeting and there's a good reason (motive) as why TS and the family are saying there was. Again, perhaps a reason that is yet to be revealed and/or understood.<br /><br />The point is none of us know what really happened that day re: this 'supposed' meeting and even if we 'study' the 'evidence' out there, there isn't enough IMO to conclude we KNOW what took place and what didn't....so it's pointless to get frazzled over it.<br /><br />On another note...and I've posted about this before...I still find it extremely interesting that Mike was notified of the attacks by 'friends' IN Saudi Arabia.<br /><br />Hopefully this will all make sense some day.<br /><br />With L.O.V.E. always.
911 would have been planned and strategized for a long time. I do not believe for a minute that they did not know that Michael was performing there during that time. That’s not a coincidence to me. If illuminati was involved in 911 then I tend to think they would have considered Michael’s demise as part of the package an added bonus.
I didn't have Frank's book but someone PMed me that they read it, and both Frank and MJ had the appointment. From others here who have read it that isn't correct, but if we eliminate him we are still left with 3 people saying the same thing. <br /><br /> I do agree with you BeTheChange, and I also wondered the same thing as to why he didn't mention it before. Since it was a planned attack thus his death possibly being planned in the same attack, it could have been too risky to say anything. Any answer that maybe would have hinted at it being a planned event would most definitely be a risk. I don't believe the "he slept in" part of the story, because I think he knew ahead of time. I also read it was the Prince who called him and told him not to go to his meeting; so who knows, but my opinion that it was a real meeting hasn't changed.<br /><br /><br />Edit: Agreed hesouttamylife, him being in N.Y. at the time is a huge "coincidence."
<br />I think I'm pretty grounded in reality and my brain is intact inside my cranium, thank you. But no matter. I am teflon. Shit shall not stick.<br /><br />Re: the current topic, the '9/11 was designed to [also] take out MJ' theory contains a pretty tall accusation. I'd like to see substantiation that MJ was indeed scheduled to be there before accepting the theory as plausible.<br />
<br /><br />I agree with this. And I thought La Toya mentioned it in her book about he was scheduled to be there. Unless my memory fails me. Though, I'm pretty sure it was discussed on this forum.
Quote from: TS_comments on November 30, 2011, 01:13:17 PM<br /><br /> February 2010: “[Jermaine] He was very, very healthy but Michael was not with us, way before he arrived to the airport. ... But it’s all going to come out; it’s all going to unfold. [Interviewer] Do you know what it is, and you’re waiting for it to come out? [Jermaine] Yes, yes, I do. ... I know ...” {}.<br /><br /> June 2010: “[Larry] Do you think we’ll ever find out the whole story? [Jermaine] Yes! Yes! You know why, because his [MJ’s] family is not going to let it not happen. We love you, we miss him; the world needs to know the truth, we need to know the truth, you need to know the truth. And, uh, absolutely; we’re going to do everything in our power as a family to make sure the world knows WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.” {1:32, }.<br /><br /> February 20, 2011: “There is a due legal process we must honor. Justice first. And then it will be time for truth.” {
}.<br /><br /> :shock: :shock: :shock:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />TS wrote of the signals that have given the family, Jermaine in his book he wrote of the meeting of Michael 9/11 at the WTC, obviously, that meeting was scheduled by someone very powerful he knew what would happen that day, ..who was that person?, Difficult answer.<br /><br />
<br /><br />To me TS was clear enough when he explained how in a big danger Michael was in and I'm having a hard time why some do not want to get it. I also don't get how some can think that Michael faked his entire life, such as his 2005 trials, the Pepsi commercial burn etc. This is not only about falling into a fantasy hoax world like TS says but also it is such a huge disrespectfulness to Michael. This issue is boiling my blood, so I'd better stop here. :evil: <br />
<br /><br />but purelove, we do know that he deliberately manipulated the media and everyone about who MJ is for years. so in some ways he did fake his life to a degree. dont let your blod boil hun. be happy ::P<br /><br />
<br /><br />Yes, Michael did somethings to manipulate the media. He showed himself like a very sick person on wheelchairs etc. It was all preparation to this hoax. But I do not believe that Michael's entire life was a lie, like the 2005 trials and the Pepsi burn. Those issues are proofs that Michael was a threat to the evil side and they wanted him dead. All theories are good to read but theories shouldn't turn into fantasies and we should be sane enough to realize the difference between reality and fiction/fantasy. I get pissed when some of the "theories" pass the level of respect line and get disrespectful to Michael. So, I can not say that it's all ok for all theories. I'm also thinking what Michael would feel like when he reads some of his believers think his entire life is based on lies. This would terribly hurt him.
<br />The story of the boy who cried wolf has come into my mind more than once during the past two years.<br />
<br /><br />Agreed. He faked his death and so speculating that he faked the Pepsi accident is disrespectful? I think not.<br /><br />He faked his death... therefore every move this man has made his entire life is up for speculation. It's all fair game. You want to call it disrespectful? Fine. But then I call anyone who takes anything he did/happened to him at face value gullible.<br /><br />This is a much deeper and more complex person then his persona implicates and it's a SHAME after all this time there are people who call themselves hoaxers who still can't see past the public image. There are many more levels to MJ then that. Some of them are dark and some are more then a little twisted.<br /><br />Yes. I am almost certain he faked the Pepsi accident. Gasp in shock and horror! Just don't choke.<br /><br />Ps. If only LaToya and Jermaine have confirmed TS's allegation that MJ was scheduled to be @WTC on 9/11 I call that useless. Neither of them are credible sources. PERIOD.
<br />The story of the boy who cried wolf has come into my mind more than once during the past two years.<br />
<br /><br />Agreed. He faked his death and so speculating that he faked the Pepsi accident is disrespectful? I think not.<br /><br />He faked his death... therefore every move this man has made his entire life is up for speculation. It's all fair game. You want to call it disrespectful? Fine. But then I call anyone who takes anything he did/happened to him at face value gullible. AGREE<br /><br />This is a much deeper and more complex person then his persona implicates and it's a SHAME after all this time there are people who call themselves hoaxers who still can't see past the public image. There are many more levels to MJ then that. Some of them are dark and some are more then a little twisted. YES - AGREE!!!!<br /><br />Yes. I am almost certain he faked the Pepsi accident. Gasp in shock and horror! Just don't choke. DOUBLE AGREE<br /><br />Ps. If only LaToya and Jermaine have confirmed TS's allegation that MJ was scheduled to be @WTC on 9/11 I call that useless. Neither of them are credible sources. PERIOD. AGREEE.<br />
<br /><br />@ bec - have to say that though, i acknowledge pureloves point of view, and respect that she might be offended that people are implying that MJ faked most iof his life - I agree with your post 100%<br /><br />as you know, i am not a 'movie only' believer. (well at least not yet lol) but i agree with you completely that MJ has many sides / layers to him. some perhaps dark and even evil. in fact that statement shouldnt shock people, as it is simple human nature to have good and bad elements to us. its what makes us human. we are all imperfect...<br /><br />i think he played many, not just media. also his fans. his family. everyone. he is an island unto his own who plays by his own rules. i love him dearly. but he is manipulative. deliberately. and for those who are offended. dont be. it isnt nessecarily negative... its a strategy. a marketing strategy if you will. to make the name MJ current over 4 decades and probably for many many decades to come.<br /><br />come on.... a spider bite before court???<br />hyperbaric?<br />elephant man?<br />wheelchairs?<br />moustaches?<br />disguises?<br /><br />create lies / also known as illusions. generates hype. creates attention. generates income. income = power (thats marketing 101)<br /><br />remember what Jermaine said abt wonka...<br /><br />in jest: damn it, i am starting to sound like a 'movie' beLIEver, lol... i sure as heck dont believe in 'next jesus / messiah' theory.....
Right on, sister. (@Aussie)<;br /><br />Manipulative is the perfect word. We are being manipulated as well. The hoaxers are being hoaxed right along with the rest of the world. We think we are sooooo smart. We understand him sooooo well. Sound familiar? Just like his non-believer fans. We've all been set up to go down a certain road in order to maximize the BAM effect in the end. Why do you think we can't PROVE the hoax? If we could prove it or solve some integral puzzle and learn the truth unequivocally before the end, we might be so smart, and we wouldn't be properly shocked and amazed come bamsday. How do you shock and amaze people with your fake death when you already allowed them to KNOW you're not dead? Tall order, seemingly counterproductive to have Believers at all, especially considering the effort that has been made to embed clues everywhere you look. But I don't necessarily believe those clues are always leading us in the direction of the Truth, unless you want to call it the truth in the movie that this is. Yes the truth in the movie is that MJ is the target of a conspiracy, etc etc I won't get into, it's been debated in the pages prior. The long and the short of it is that the deck (of Truth) has been stacked against us. We are allowed to know that he is not dead, encouraged periodically even to believe this, but we are not allowed to have tangible proof (example: TS's connection to J5 Twitter posting, also Front's connection to Paris/LaToya twitter and MJ Official Facebook page=triangulated proof, indirect, no direct, public link ie: J5 posting link to TIAI will never happen). In addition to the ever elusive holy grail (ha) of PROOF, we are given a hoax of our very own. Yes MJ is really alive, but THIS (insert false theory of your choice) is WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. Mwahahaha. Evil genius at work. The hoaxers get hoaxed as well. It's extremely clever if it's true. I'm really rather in awe of it.<br /><br />But maybe that's not how it is at all. Maybe it's something else entirely. I have long had difficulty contemplating the deeper meaning of life as a hoaxer (cue cheesy violin music)... why are we here? what is our purpose? what destiny are we to achieve? and have most often come up with more questions then answers. One conclusion that does satisfy many of the Whys and Hows is the entertainment aspect. He wants to shock the world. The whole world. If we were supposed to get a heads up on the truth it would have happened by now. 2.5 years in, we have proven our worth and loyalty. We have also proven to be outspoken enough about the hoax to be rendered lunatics not to be taken seriously by the rest of the populous. I can think of no reason he has NOT to reveal to us; considering the journey he has taken us on, at this juncture... UNLESS, we are slated for some sort of [big] surprise in regards to what we THINK has been our purpose and roll here all along.
/bravo/ bec. Always amazed with you.<br /> <br /> One of the reasons we don't get this complete scenario is our birthplace of mindset that is so hard to leave and got so well impregnated with lots of rubber coat, thanks to Mom, Dad, sisters, brothers, teachers, friends, colleagues, the media, (and of course MJ igniting the initial spark as to his personal relationship with us) LOL.<br /> <br /> We are still and always coming from the auditorium consumer perspective.<br /> Even in case we got over the "I am a listener to MJ songs only" while having been invited into the production backstage at recent times, even in case we got over the "I am a concert-goer only" while having been put on stage ourselves as the crazy "fan" minority since 2+ years.<br /> <br /> This is (the / one of the) answer(s):<br /> <br /> <br /> http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=VKPiBeZOkxg<br /> <br /> It is reciprocal. Only dimensions have changed.<br /> We have our own scale of importance and success for the one behind the curtain.<br /> Doesn't mean he doesn't love us dearly through the fog his machinery is constantly throwing out. <br /> So do we.
here is a link to an interesting article in a blog. talks abt contradictions.<br /><br />http://evolutionflashback.blogspot.com/2011/03/creatives-explained.html<br /><br />MJ is a walking contradiction...<br /><br />pure and virginal - displays of explosive sexual energy when on stage<br />shy and quiet - frank and direct and in fact a pioneer about his message<br />at times frail and ill - fraskishly fit and an amazing dancer who defies physical limits <br />softly spoken - yet screams and has been known to have a deeper voice at times<br />humble and meek - yet errects statues of himself<br />wants to be private - yet deliberately creates hype and puts himself in the spotlight<br /><br />(by the way, none of these are negatives)<br /><br />what is real what is fake?.... who knows. they are all the complexities (amongst many others) of a genius who has engineered himself into an empire, a product, a name, a mysterious character. we do not know the real mj. pepsi and 2005 trial may have been real. but you do have to admit, amongst a 30 year career of crazy antics, staged PR moments, bluffs, illusions, it is possible that other incidents such as pepsi and 2005 are fake also. if he can perfectly execute a death hoax, he can too a trial or an accident.<br /><br />in fact the more MJ fakes his life the more privacy he actually has... because it means that less people know the real MJ. they know the character he plays, not the real person within - which creates for him a degree of anonimity about who he really is...<br /><br /><br />Bon Jovi - <br /><br />You think you know me just because you know my name <br />You think you see me 'cause you've seen every line on my face <br />You want to want me just because I say that I want you <br />But does it matter if anything I'm saying is the truth <br />
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