<br />But was Jesus really born on December 25th? Or was that when it was announced? There has always been debate as to when He was born, some argue it was during the warmer months. One of the central themes of the Signs has been that the historians have got a lot of Biblical stuff (I'm tired) wrong so would the birth of Jesus be any different? We the people have been lied to and misguided for so long.<br />
<br /><br />Sign is correct in saying that Historians have got a lot of stuff wrong. But so have the Churches. They have misinterpreted things and got them 'wrong' when they subtracted truth and added paganism or their religious traditions to their biblical understanding, such as the birth of Christ.<br /><br />And YES the people have been lied to for centuries!<br /><br />
Andrea:<br /><br />I had thought this was why jw didn't celebrate Christmas , is that correct Aussie or Ford?<br />
<br /><br />Precisely. I will elaborate on this later. in the meantime, here are merely two points disprove Dec 25.<br /><br />1) Jesus lived to be 33 and a HALF. He died in the Month of NISAN of the Jewish lunar calendar, which comes out to be roughly the month of April. Go back six months and it would show that he was born in approximately October.<br /><br />2) 25th of DEC in Northern Hemisphere is very cold, middle of winter. The bible says that there were sheep out in the field and that Sheppherd were LIVING Outside, around the time of Jesus birth. This would be absolutely impossible in late December. October is the likely time that Jesus was born.<br /><br />That lends the question, "where did Christmas come from?" The answer to this question, is the reason why JWs don't celebrate Xmas, not just because Dec 25 date is incorrect.<br /><br />I will follow up this post with something else shortly.<br /><br /><br /><br />Btw, There are actually 7 JW's at the forum who are regular contributors to the discussions He he. Some prefer to keep their religious identity to themselves. Thought I'd note it.
I've always thought it's because the ancient, pagan mid-winter festival, celebrating the return of the sun, was hijacked and turned into Christmas by Christians at some point. I also remember JWs telling me they didn't celebrate a poor helpless baby's birth when there were greater things to celebrate about this particular baby.<br /><br />
Curls, Winter solstice is part of the reason people celebrate Christmas on Dec 25, but the reason runs deeper than that.<br /><br />And perhaps not in the exact words you wrote, but yes JWs believe in Salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ and that his death is more important than his birth. We don't remember him merely as a baby in a manger but a reining King who can bring about peace & salvation and is the medium for a relationship with God.<br /><br />
As someone who values historical and biblical study and appreciate that there are many like minded individuals here, I'd like to take this opportunity to upload an audio file that is very precious to me personally. <br /><br />I don't usually upload JW Audio, not because I / we have anything to hide, as indicated by all being welcome at our halls, but more because out of respect, as it is really not my property and I don't have permission to upload. On this occasion I am going to go against my gut, only because the audio so beautifully more importantly logically explains why some choose not to celebrate Christmas, by means of deciphering 'what' it is exactly that Christmas is based on. The information is not just JW teaching, the information in the audio is taken from historians, biblical writers, other authors, encyclopedias, etc.<br /><br />This piece of audio is not to say "I am better than you" or "I judge those who celebrate Christmas" - not at all. Just a bit more information to put on the table considering that we are all sharing religious information. Many of the subjects in the audio have been bought up by TS himself too<br /><br />The audio is from a Public Discourse from a JW Kingdom Hall, on a Sunday meeting. (yep, giving you the opportunity to see what goes on inside) This is an example of the kind of talks that MJ himself would have listened to at the meetings when he attended. How he feels now is his prerogative and right. I personally don't celebrate Christmas based on what I have learned in this talk as well as based on much other information too. This audio may give you more understanding why MJ didn't celebrate Christmas for a long time. It's not because we are kill joys, anti fun or anti Jesus. We actually don't celebrate it because we respect Jesus. (Also referred to in this audio as 'the seed')<br /><br />Again Not judging anyone else's view points or beliefs or decision to celebrate, just sharing the JW understanding. My aim is NOT to ruffle feathers, rather to unveil misunderstandings or preconceived notions. Really hoping that sharing this doesn't backfire on me an open me to attack. However, it will explain properly why we don't Celebrate Christmas. If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me. As long as they are polite I am happy to discuss.<br /><br />The recording is about 15 years old, please forgive me for the approximate 4 minute break in recording at the 38 minute mark. Enjoy the Aussie accent!<br /><br /><br />[size=14pt]<br />AUDIO LINK:[/size] http://yourlisten.com/channel/content/16925240/the_master_craftsman?rn=2ikmh2aakhog<br /><br /><br /><br />As always, with sincere L.O.V.E :bearhug:<br />[size=16pt]<br />EDIT:[/size] It gets VERY interesting around the 10 min mark. Bare with it You really do need to listen to it all for it to make sense. The Christmas discussion starts at around 30 mins, but the information before that is quite important.<br /><br /><br />
Very fascinating topic. I appreciate the info on the JWs. I just thought they didn't like to party! And now I see the point!<br /><br />But the funny thing for me is how I have a such a hard time with Christmas. Yes, my kids are grown and it's way commercial, but for the last few years, I've found the whole idea of Christmas increasingly distasteful, but it's difficult to not celebrate it without feeling like a 'humbug.' Not that Christmas has much to do with Jesus anymore, but now I have a good reason to avoid the Christmas nonsense.
<br /><br />Just reminding that there is a 4 or five min gap in recording. Please stick with it. Important info comes after this point.<br />
<br /><br /><br />if you have more of these you should put them on hoaxbook. <br /><br />and hey if there are any mormons i don't see why their views couldn't be given a look see also. <br /><br />all of this has been very interesting for me. thank you aussie
<br />2) 25th of DEC in Northern Hemisphere is very cold, middle of winter. The bible says that there were sheep out in the field and that Sheppherd were LIVING Outside, around the time of Jesus birth. This would be absolutely impossible in late December. <br />
i had hoped that we could look at this information not as something that has to be debated but just as something that will help us to have better knowledge of jw faith . as was most likely (i think )also the hope of the poster. :icon_e_sad:
Thanks for sharing Aussie. I think it's good to get different view points. I know the feeling Gwynned. It seems that Christmas is not really a religious holiday like it used to be. It's commercialism. I think of it as a time to share,spread joy, help others, see family, give....etc. <br /><br /><br />
<br />Thanks Sim. I remember these montages but it's good to see them again. Things continue to get clearer but I think I'm still not understanding everything about the rainbow, and you know I'm trying. Is it about all the lightworkers and the ascension ? All the light energy coming to earth ? A miracle using cosmic energy ? The rainbow around the ark ? :icon_e_confused:<br /><br />Love You<br />
IDK... I am confused about all these rainbow references... and maybe you're right, it would make sense at least that! loll<br /><br />I love you too!! :bearhug:
<br />Sim, thanks for all those reminders. My brain is almost fried by the staggering amount of info we have discussed at one time or another these 3 1/2 years. :affraid: [....]
I feel the same too!! and also very overwhelmed and confused about everything!
i had hoped that we could look at this information not as something that has to be debated but just as something that will help us to have better knowledge of jw faith . as was most likely (i think )also the hope of the poster.
<br /><br />You're welcome Suspicious. Certainly, my point was not to debate, but as you said, sharing knowledge :icon_e_wink:<br /><br />@ Ellyd - Perhaps so that it IS possible, but its really not the point. It does beyond a Winter / December issue. Listen to the audio. :icon_e_wink:<br />
Btw, There are actually 7 JW's at the forum who are regular contributors to the discussion
<br />Well that sounds hoaxy, can’t be a coincidence! Lol<br /><br />Thanks for the interesting audio- though I’ll have to come back for the rest of it. What I did hear, I agreed with—and love his accent! Christmas is just the tip of the iceberg for paganism mixed in Christianity.<br /><br />Just a weird thought, it was interesting that in Sign #6, the first 2 paragraphs end in a Scriptural command to “Watch.” Back always said, “Keep watching”. And the JW’s publications are the ‘Watch’ tower.<br /><br />Gwynned<br />
I've found the whole idea of Christmas increasingly distasteful, but it's difficult to not celebrate it without feeling like a 'humbug.'
<br />Agreed, it seems our family are always trying to find creative ways to cope, and somehow get through it as quickly as possible. The problem is stores, general public, and young children won’t let it be ignored.<br />
i don't know about the christmas feelings on my part. but one thing i have noticed a while ago that has become more and more intense in my emotions. that is that thanksgiving has just become a passing moment, a reason for food and football. this year i am trying to make thankfulness a main point on my facebook. i have had a few on my friends list join in. someone commented there about the whole month of october being halloween , so i couldn't see why november couldn't be about being thankful. <br /><br />you know it has always been so puzzleing to me that liz would introduce michael to celebrating christmas when she herself converted to be a jew when she married one of her husbands, they don't celebrate christmas either. :icon_e_confused:
<br /><br /><br />humm interesting point . i had also wondered why if the jackson family did not celebrate christmas how it was that they cut i think 6 christmas albums.
Sometimes people celebrate Christmas because it's a time for family,friends,giving,sharing etc. It's not really about religion that much any more. I know Jewish people and others that celebrate it. They just join in the festivities. There are also charity events going on that people do such as toys for tots, children's parties/events that give aide to children. It's not always about religion.<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />humm interesting point . i had also wondered why if the jackson family did not celebrate christmas how it was that they cut i think 6 christmas albums.<br />
<br /><br />Well Joe is not has never been a JW and did celebrate Christmas. Katherine and the children didn't. Until they got old enough to make their own religious decisions. However even when they were young and under Katherine's guidance, they lived in a religiously split home. As one parent was of a faith that the other parent wasn't. Therefore things such as the Christmas album amongst kids that supposedly didn't celebrate Christmas, make sense.
<br /><br /><br />humm interesting point . i had also wondered why if the jackson family did not celebrate christmas how it was that they cut i think 6 christmas albums.<br />
<br /><br />Well Joe is not has never been a JW and did celebrate Christmas. Katherine and the children didn't. Until they got old enough to make their own religious decisions. However even when they were young and under Katherine's guidance, they lived in a religiously split home. As one parent was of a faith that the other parent wasn't. Therefore things such as the Christmas album amongst kids that supposedly didn't celebrate Christmas, make sense.<br />
<br /><br />yeah that kind of hit me last night that joe was the one around for contractual stuff and katherine didn't have much say in that probably.
I guess that celebrating X-mas is just a tradition to keep up with in order to have "happy" moments with the family. A time for everyone to be nice to each other (or to pretend to be nice :icon_lol:). It´s party time, isn´t it? <br /><br />Let´s have a reason to give presents to each other with the elbow! Let´s have a reason to meet mother in law and behave as if you like her! :th_bravo:<br /><br />Come on folks! X-mas is fun! Decorating the home is cool! <br /><br />Do people really care when Jesus was born? May be 30 years ago that was a sacred reason, but not now days in our society. Ask children what´s fun with celebrating x-mas! They will tell you that they can´t wait for their iphone 5 :icon_lol:<br /><br />
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