I just wanted to add that the point of this thread was to get people to think and look at the possibility that there has been a double or doubles who was prominent in Michael's life for many years. I by no means want to say this was ALL the time, but by looking at the evidence for me and several others it seems to show that 80% of the time we weren't seeing the "real" Michael...think about it its one of the greatest geniuos illusions ever..the media and including some fans believe that michael has jad too many surgeries..what if what we believed to been michael we have just been seeing a double..i mean michael is not a chameleon and it amazes me over the past 16 years that his face has changes sooo much and rapidly fast and able to heal and make all the tv appearances, outings , etc and still be seen.. it defies logic and common sense to me.I agree that Michael had surgeries but in the interview with Bashir he stated he only had 2 surgeries done. So how can someone's face change so much other then from age and only 2 surgeries were done. Michael stated himself once that "we only see what he wanted us to see, when he wanted and how he wanted" and i think that is something that some of the non-believers about doubles really need to think about...i mean this is MICHAEL JACKSON that we are talking about...over 40 years we have known michael the king of pop the entertainer and every other great thing that he deservers to be called but we dont know what goes on behind the scenes when he's not performing. He had many doubles and that is not a secret. Will knowing that MJ used a double for the last years make me love him less, Nope. I give him credit for having the courage and the brilliance to pull something like that off and not get caught. And still till this day the illusion continues and i think its very relevent to the hoax..some us are not in total agreement that the person we saw at the o2 conference was not Michael Jackson.
but lets just say if that wasn't Michael Jackson, what would make you so sure that at most of the other times it was him? i can tell you that after 1993, he not only hasn't looked the same (except during the history tour where he suddenly reverted back to looking exactly the same and then looked weird again straight after) he never performed the same again either (except the history tour)
Look at any footage pre 1993 and compare it to anything after that (except the history tour) Not the same person. Could these visable changes among the various MJ's have also fueled rumors and speculation about MJ's mental state of mind? Tabloids may have noticed physical changes and attributed the changes more to MJ's character than his body? They may not have been able to fully pinpoint what was different or "wrong" with MJ. Soooo they may have naturally taken the cheap shots at his personality/character/mind because it made for good gossip stories...HERES WHAT I CHALLENGE YOU TO DO GO BACK AND LOOK AT VERY PROMINENT APPEARANCES MADE BY MICHAEL AND INCLUDING INTERVIEWS, TOURS AND MUSIC VIDS UP TILL NOW AND I BET YOU WILL NOTICE THE UNCANNY ILLUSION THAT WE HAVE BEEN SEEING OVER THE YEARS AND YOU WILL DISCOVER NOT JUST MICHAEL THE KING OF POP BUT THE ILLUSIONISTS!!!
I find what you have to say very plausible and it definitely explains why Michael would perform in concert looking like the Michael Jackson we all knew and loved (albeit a little older each time of course) and then suddenly revert to looking like the "weird" MJ portrayed in the tabloids, magazines & on TV. Thanks for posting this ... it's given me plenty of food for thought. I too believe that Michael has created an illusion around himself for a purpose and that we only see what he wants us to see. He has been controlling his destiny for decades now and he has definitely graduated as a Master <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
What is happening in this thread is a well known phenomenon in criminalology, the photo ID. A certain percentage of people just is not capable of recognizing other people based on facial features, which is why identification based on photo ID is considered as less reliable.
You can go over and over again trying to proof things here, but fact is, some people are just not well capable in identification.
Another thing, he would probably hate his face being examined in such detail with a magnifying glass as is being done now...
This thread is getting ridiculous. <br /><br />What some people in here are saying, is: "Michael Jackson doesn't exist!"<br /><br />The reason is, whatever I post of pictures of Michael Joe Jackson, some people believe strongly it's an impersonator. You think Michael Joe Jackson isn't himself, because he is not allowed to change in your minds! Michael Jackson is so much more than just a media target. Some people believe it's not Michael Joe Jackson, because he for some reason change his look all the time.<br /><br />You got to realize it, the lad became a man! This is an age difference from 1988 to 2009.. 21 Years!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I don't know if you know, but he looked like this.. :<br /><br /><br />But ended up like this..: <br /><br /><br /><br />I don't know what you believe, or "know".. But Michael changed. Maybe he changed in This Is It, <br />but WE DON'T KNOW for how long they have been doing This Is It rehearsals..<br /><br /><br />Not all pictures look the same, you yourself know that. Michael Joe Jackson looks different each time he is going outside his house. Soon some people will believe in the theory: Michael Jackson died black, impersonators has been used since.. <br /><br />I don't know what you actually believe.. But once again.. Michael Joe Jackson is 50 years! He is not longer 42 from the Reunion with his brothers, Michael is not longer the lad from 1980's and 90's.. <br /><br />He is 50! It's limits for a 50 year old man with lupus, what he is capable to do. "His moves doesn't look good, he dance like an impersonator.." Yeah.. Maybe he does, he is not 20,30 or 40 years.. He is 50.. <br /><br /><br /><br />Now, the LAST thing for you believers of "Michael Jackson didn't really exist; Cause there were only impersonators of Michael.." Go to the mirror, or pick up your camera. <br />Try to look..<br />-Serious; Relaxed, Try to take in the cheeks..<br />-Exited; Happy, close your eyes to focus, try to bit your lips.<br />-Sad; Serious, Relaxed, Curious, Tired..<br />-Rough; Take your lips together, Focused on something, Slowly breath..<br /><br />These four "try to look" are how Michael is on these pictures.. Good luck!<br /><br />If you're still not convinced that all four are Michael.. Uhm.. Then you did never knew who MJ was, because all you saw was impersonators.. You're saying MJ is an imposter now, so how are you sure that Michael actually is alive? How can we know how he looks like then? Which health he is in or not..
IS this the REAL MJ? At home? with his Children... FAR away from papz..<br />Well? this MJ looks very, very different from the Michael jackson IN This Is It!<br />
IS this the REAL MJ? At home? with his Children... FAR away from papz..<br />Well? this MJ looks very, very different from the Michael jackson IN This Is It!<br />
<br /><br /><br />It is Michael.. This is from 2004.. He look exactly like the same as the person on picture 4 on page 1..<br /><br />You guys don't make sense at all..
This is one of the most thought-provoking threads (apart from Dave Dave-LKL and V for Vendetta) that I have ever read. In my opinion, you have put into words what we might have been perceiving and processing for years as strange.
Michael has only allowed us to see what he wanted us to see. He never was a victim, then.
Michael performing, however, was always Michael, right? Appearances at awards, etc., were frequently doubles (one that comes to mind is the appearance with Pavarotti in Italy). So it is possible that there was a double during the trials, too?
From these observations, we can conclude that he used a double for his death. This would explain the non-recognition by the ambulance crew and other things that do not make sense.
when was the 1st pic taken?? it looks GORGEOUS! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D --> i always thought they had doubles in this is it and im gonna buy the movie wen it comes out here (in aussie) and watch it a couple of times..but me and ma cuz both agree than the mj in orange pants is a double and i think the human nature penguin guy is a double 2..but i feel that the mj in da grey suit thats this one
is the real one..the gold pants guy mite be or mite not b a double i dunno..but IMO there were definitely doubles in this is it cos come on ppl all the michaels do not look the sameee!!
so do u think im ryt abt which r doubles? cos i dnt knw anymoree
OMG ! I read 10 pages of posts and I'm sure I'm loosin it !!! <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Definately , a lot of food for thought and deep digging but ...I really don't know...
This is not going anywhere ...
I'm sure that Mike has doubles but ...how on earth can someone be sure who is who ???
i don't think that any of us has ever met the real Mike so ...
we can only compare pics and angles and lights and make up and bone structures and the list goes on and on ...
I just want the one and only real Michael to be OK and safe . Period. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
This is one of the most thought-provoking threads (apart from Dave Dave-LKL and V for Vendetta) that I have ever read. In my opinion, you have put into words what we might have been perceiving and processing for years as strange.
Michael has only allowed us to see what he wanted us to see. He never was a victim, then.
Michael performing, however, was always Michael, right? Appearances at awards, etc., were frequently doubles (one that comes to mind is the appearance with Pavarotti in Italy). So it is possible that there was a double during the trials, too?
From these observations, we can conclude that he used a double for his death. This would explain the non-recognition by the ambulance crew and other things that do not make sense.
I totally agree with your statement ...especially that there was a double at the trials .. If I had been falsely accused and was threatened with going to jail that would have the first thing I would have said to my people "get me a double I dont care how much it costs I aint goint to no jail"
here we go once again, michael in 2 different scenes for the same clip.
whO is who, and i see differences, in the eyes,nose and chin. AND THE FIRST PIC IS NOT SHRUNK IN ANY WAY. GO WATCH THIS IS IT FOR YOURSELF, ITS THE SCENE RIGHT BEFORE HE BURSTS THROUGH THE GLASS. THE CLEFT IS NOT THE SAME, THE NOSE IS NOT THE SAME. AND NEITHER ARE THE EYES.
Make up and shadow can make features look different.
In the Smooth Criminal pic he is wearing a hat and heavy make up.
Thats true!! I had worked on a beauty salon and I know that the make up artist use some make up on peoples nose to make it look thiner or different and in pictures with the light and everything, the nose looks really different...
Well, i AM a make-up artist and i'm saying that you can change a lot of things with make up, but NOT the teeth, NOT the ears, and NOT the whole face... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Absolutely agree with ya,very well said. Michael is the king of illusions,he loves them as he himself said in many of his interviews and its not a secret that he would use doubles when not wanting to be in the spotlight or for different occasions,while reading this thread,i really went nuts,my head gonna explode,dont know what to make of it,but in my humbe opinion,the 3"Michael" on the first page of this topic looks very different,if there were doubles i do think the third one is a double, he looks just too different from other pictures,anyway i just consider the theory that his sick double died instead of him on june25, is a very plausible theory,thats why it was hard for the personnel of the hospital to recognize him and make the final announcement of his death,but as i said everyone is entitled to his opinion and its personal.
Make up and shadow can make features look different.
In the Smooth Criminal pic he is wearing a hat and heavy make up.
Thats true!! I had worked on a beauty salon and I know that the make up artist use some make up on peoples nose to make it look thiner or different and in pictures with the light and everything, the nose looks really different...
Well, i AM a make-up artist and i'm saying that you can change a lot of things with make up, but NOT the teeth, NOT the ears, and NOT the whole face... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
So, your conclusion is? <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> Double, or Michael!
Absolutely agree with ya,very well said. Michael is the king of illusions,he loves them as he himself said in many of his interviews and its not a secret that he would use doubles when not wanting to be in the spotlight or for different occasions,while reading this thread,i really went nuts,my head gonna explode,dont know what to make of it,but in my humbe opinion,the 3"Michael" on the first page of this topic looks very different,if there were doubles i do think the third one is a double, he looks just too different from other pictures,anyway i just consider the theory that his sick double died instead of him on june25, is a very plausible theory,thats why it was hard for the personnel of the hospital to recognize him and make the final announcement of his death,but as i said everyone is entitled to his opinion and its personal.
MJ double BUSTED
Plz watch 0:18/0:20 This double dance like MJ, Sings like MJ, but makes a mistake:
[youtube:6tml00gm]
DID u see it? wrong leg in front, and very fast he do it right again. how can THE REAL MJ make such a fault. I know u r all saying now he is just a humain. But the REAL MJ did BILLIE JEAN perfomance since 1983... so How can he do it wrong?
Watch it over and over, again and again.. U see that he makes a big mistake with the legs. IT CANT BE MJ!!!! really, that man was 7, he was pefectionist!!!!
MJ double BUSTED
Plz watch 0:18/0:20 This double dance like MJ, Sings like MJ, but makes a mistake:
[youtube:3fke2guv]
DID u see it? wrong leg in front, and very fast he do it right again. how can THE REAL MJ make such a fault. I know u r all saying now he is just a humain. But the REAL MJ did BILLIE JEAN perfomance since 1983... so How can he do it wrong?
Watch it over and over, again and again.. U see that he makes a big mistake with the legs. IT CANT BE MJ!!!! really, that man was 7, he was pefectionist!!!!
You can see it's a rhythm in it.. You're now against MJ :S
This is totally, utterly respectless!!! <!-- s:evil: -->:evil:<!-- s:evil: --> <!-- s:evil: -->:evil:<!-- s:evil: --> <!-- s:evil: -->:evil:<!-- s:evil: --> The face of this man is being eliminated with a magnifying glass, even on pictures where he is clearly ill and not well. Just shows under what sort of scrutiny he has had to deal with all his live concerning his appearance, even now, by "fans".
Drawing on his face with arrows and squares and what not, it's total disrespect!!
<!-- s:evil: -->:evil:<!-- s:evil: --> Criticising his dancing, his singing, his appearance, all under the name of "believe it's a double"!!! They are REHEARSALS for crying out loud!!Thanks a lot for this K. Ortega! Michael would NEVER have approved to release unfinished rehearsal material that was not 100% perfect, EVER!
People complaining that these are NOT MJ, does clearly live in a world I'll never understand. They think everything is possible, even in 1980' change your look to look exactly like Michael with some surgery.
Time to get outside, and realize that the world isn't how you imagine it.
Think how Michael will feel, when he see fans saying "That's not Michael" "That impersonator can't dance.."
"It's all impersonators.."
why is it so hard to believe that they used doubles.
JOE clearly stated they used doubles in the movie unless every word he says is a lie and i doubt that.
And i truly dont understand half of you with these comments..
THIS IS A HOAX SITE. we discuss many things and are open to many ideas.
No one is purposely being disrespectful to michael in anyway.
Trying to see if there are doubles is part of investigating, if it bothers you that some people find odd things in pictures or videos etc.. then its our right to look into it. No one in this thread that feels there are doubles are making fun of michael so why get all worked up over it. tHIS IS WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU INVESTIGATE THINGS.
Please dont feel you cant express yourself or your dislike of a thread but try to restrain that anger for threads that are purposely making fun of or attacking michael.
We in this thread are trying to bring to light the fact that michael seems to have doubles, which in a super star of his caliber is more then likely, and we obviously see differences in many pictures and many of these pictures are in the same time frame, and then even some older pictures match newer pics when they shouldn't and so on.
I personally see cleft changes, nose changes, eye changes , lip changes and other things, I will grant you make up and lighting can change things and that's common sense but some pictures just look to odd and just dont look like him especially when they are suppose to be in the same time frame, such as the smooth criminal pics versus the others, also some court pics , there seems to be doubles during that few weeks as well.
Now if we ever come to a common ground that they used doubles, then I would say they look pretty close and none we know of, or maybe some we do that had more surgery, Im not sure where to go yet.
Comments
<!-- s
I find what you have to say very plausible and it definitely explains why Michael would perform in concert looking like the Michael Jackson we all knew and loved (albeit a little older each time of course) and then suddenly revert to looking like the "weird" MJ portrayed in the tabloids, magazines & on TV. Thanks for posting this ... it's given me plenty of food for thought. I too believe that Michael has created an illusion around himself for a purpose and that we only see what he wants us to see. He has been controlling his destiny for decades now and he has definitely graduated as a Master <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
You can go over and over again trying to proof things here, but fact is, some people are just not well capable in identification.
Another thing, he would probably hate his face being examined in such detail with a magnifying glass as is being done now...
Michael has only allowed us to see what he wanted us to see. He never was a victim, then.
Michael performing, however, was always Michael, right? Appearances at awards, etc., were frequently doubles (one that comes to mind is the appearance with Pavarotti in Italy). So it is possible that there was a double during the trials, too?
From these observations, we can conclude that he used a double for his death. This would explain the non-recognition by the ambulance crew and other things that do not make sense.
http://cdn.mymajicdc.com/files//2009/10/michael-jackson-this-is-it-cover3.jpg
is the real one..the gold pants guy mite be or mite not b a double i dunno..but IMO there were definitely doubles in this is it cos come on ppl all the michaels do not look the sameee!!
so do u think im ryt abt which r doubles? cos i dnt knw anymoree
Definately , a lot of food for thought and deep digging but ...I really don't know...
This is not going anywhere ...
I'm sure that Mike has doubles but ...how on earth can someone be sure who is who ???
i don't think that any of us has ever met the real Mike so ...
we can only compare pics and angles and lights and make up and bone structures and the list goes on and on ...
I just want the one and only real Michael to be OK and safe . Period. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
You're ridiculous.
whO is who, and i see differences, in the eyes,nose and chin. AND THE FIRST PIC IS NOT SHRUNK IN ANY WAY. GO WATCH THIS IS IT FOR YOURSELF, ITS THE SCENE RIGHT BEFORE HE BURSTS THROUGH THE GLASS. THE CLEFT IS NOT THE SAME, THE NOSE IS NOT THE SAME. AND NEITHER ARE THE EYES.
Well, i AM a make-up artist and i'm saying that you can change a lot of things with make up, but NOT the teeth, NOT the ears, and NOT the whole face... <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
Absolutely agree with ya,very well said. Michael is the king of illusions,he loves them as he himself said in many of his interviews and its not a secret that he would use doubles when not wanting to be in the spotlight or for different occasions,while reading this thread,i really went nuts,my head gonna explode,dont know what to make of it,but in my humbe opinion,the 3"Michael" on the first page of this topic looks very different,if there were doubles i do think the third one is a double, he looks just too different from other pictures,anyway i just consider the theory that his sick double died instead of him on june25, is a very plausible theory,thats why it was hard for the personnel of the hospital to recognize him and make the final announcement of his death,but as i said everyone is entitled to his opinion and its personal.
So, your conclusion is? <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> Double, or Michael!
Look at the eyes
Plz watch 0:18/0:20 This double dance like MJ, Sings like MJ, but makes a mistake:
[youtube:6tml00gm]
DID u see it? wrong leg in front, and very fast he do it right again. how can THE REAL MJ make such a fault. I know u r all saying now he is just a humain. But the REAL MJ did BILLIE JEAN perfomance since 1983... so How can he do it wrong?
Watch it over and over, again and again.. U see that he makes a big mistake with the legs. IT CANT BE MJ!!!! really, that man was 7, he was pefectionist!!!!
You can see it's a rhythm in it.. You're now against MJ :S
Drawing on his face with arrows and squares and what not, it's total disrespect!!
<!-- s:evil: -->:evil:<!-- s:evil: --> Criticising his dancing, his singing, his appearance, all under the name of "believe it's a double"!!! They are REHEARSALS for crying out loud!!Thanks a lot for this K. Ortega! Michael would NEVER have approved to release unfinished rehearsal material that was not 100% perfect, EVER!
This is just BASHING him, IMO.
Time to get outside, and realize that the world isn't how you imagine it.
Think how Michael will feel, when he see fans saying "That's not Michael" "That impersonator can't dance.."
"It's all impersonators.."
People change, he IS 50!!
JOE clearly stated they used doubles in the movie unless every word he says is a lie and i doubt that.
And i truly dont understand half of you with these comments..
THIS IS A HOAX SITE. we discuss many things and are open to many ideas.
No one is purposely being disrespectful to michael in anyway.
Trying to see if there are doubles is part of investigating, if it bothers you that some people find odd things in pictures or videos etc.. then its our right to look into it. No one in this thread that feels there are doubles are making fun of michael so why get all worked up over it. tHIS IS WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU INVESTIGATE THINGS.
Please dont feel you cant express yourself or your dislike of a thread but try to restrain that anger for threads that are purposely making fun of or attacking michael.
We in this thread are trying to bring to light the fact that michael seems to have doubles, which in a super star of his caliber is more then likely, and we obviously see differences in many pictures and many of these pictures are in the same time frame, and then even some older pictures match newer pics when they shouldn't and so on.
I personally see cleft changes, nose changes, eye changes , lip changes and other things, I will grant you make up and lighting can change things and that's common sense but some pictures just look to odd and just dont look like him especially when they are suppose to be in the same time frame, such as the smooth criminal pics versus the others, also some court pics , there seems to be doubles during that few weeks as well.
Now if we ever come to a common ground that they used doubles, then I would say they look pretty close and none we know of, or maybe some we do that had more surgery, Im not sure where to go yet.